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tv   Greta Van Susteren  FOX News  July 18, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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hannity? >> i got to tell you, this is not helping the country come together. brent bozell, thanks for being with us. let not your heart be troubled. greta is one studio over to go on the record. we'll see you back here tomorrow night. greta? >> tonight, if you're looking to squeeze blood out of the irs, you just may get your chance. the irs is in more trouble tonight. also right now, on the record investigation. what you have never heard about the prosecution of george zimmerman. >> i thought surely that he would be found guilty of second-degree murder, manslaughter at the least. but i just knew that they would see that this was a teenager just trying to get home. >> i didn't think -- there's no evidence to support that. >> it's time to question laws that senselessly expand the concept of self-defense and so
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dangerous conduct in our neighborhoods. >> how dare anybody suggest that we're at the end of this. this is the beginning of this. we have to make an example of it. >> tell me how you felt when lois lerner, republican, says this was inappropriate action by line people in cincinnati? >> sir, like i said before, it was like a nuclear strike. >> how did you feel when they said that, when you knew that was not the case, that it was rogue agents? >> sir, i was deeply offended. >> this obama care thing is totally flawed. i recognize that there's still a lot of folks in in town at least rooting for this law to fail. some of them seem to think it law is about me. it's not. >> a lot of people will lose full-time work, transferred to part-time status so that companies do not have to pay obama care benefits and they'll be recorded as first time job holders. >> there's a better way to do
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this. but i believe we need to continue to dismantle the president's health care law. try to repeal it, take it apart piece by piece. the president even admits there's a failure when he goes and delays for a year the employer mandate. >> all that in just a few minutes. first tonight on the record investigates. prosecutors taking heavy criticism for their handling of the zimmerman trial. there are calls for angela cory to be sanctioned or even fired. we investigated the affidavit the prosecution submit today a judge to get an arrest warrant for george zimmerman. it's not what we found in the affidavit that's alarming. it is what we did not find. joining us our legal panel from orlandoment, diana tennis, bernie grimm and ted williams. jim, i think it's fair to go to you as the former prosecutor. you've taken a look at this affidavit in support of the arrest warrant. this is what they used to arrest george zimmerman. any problems with this
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affidavit? >> i got it today. your producer, cory sent it over. i thought it would be a standard document. i kind of helped work with police officers many times to secure arrest warrants. it starts out normal. it counters, talks about the encounter between zimmerman and trach, how he saw him, how he thought he was suspicious. it ends with this. i underlined it in my version. zimmerman shot martin in the chest. when police arrived, zimmerman admitted shooting martin. nothing about his claim of self-defense. nothing about the injuries they obviously awe on him when they encountered him. nothing that claimed he was afraid for his life or when this happened. the job of police officers and prosecutors when you present stog a judge like this is to give the full story, not half of it so they can make a fair determination of probable cause. at the end it says the fact are not all the facts. but there's supposed to be a balanced set of facts. frankly, i'm pretty shocked by this. i don't have an explanation why they would leave that out,
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greta. it is a prosecutor's document. does it go too far in being a prosecutor's document to the point where it simply is an unfair document to secure an arrest warrant for someone? >> it does. i want to say, first of all, it wouldn't change the outcome of the case. a judge sits in his or her chambers, greta. they're not in the field investigating the case. they rely upon police officers, often in conjunction with prosecutors to give them a fair rendition of the heart of the case. this case on its face is a guy that profiles trayvon martin, that's the prosecution version. i believe that version. at the end of the day after a fight shoots him. most importantly, he claims self-defense. a judge has to hear that. leave the judge in the dark like this, if i got caught doing it as a d.a. i don't know the state's attorney read it. i had be in hot water. >> bernie, it won't change the outcome but it does it tell about fair dealing, the
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prosecution office. >> i can't get it shock and awe about this. i see it every day. i see affidavits much worse than this. jim hammer, if jim drafted that affidavit, it would be balanced and right down the middle. but one, legally they don't have to be balanced. you don't have to put in somebody's defense or theory. you don't have to put in fact that hurt you. we all know the law, greta. that's what it is. in answer to your question, yes, i think they're unsavory, but i have other examples of that. >> diana, it talks about how trayvon martin's mother identified the voice on the 911 call. it doesn't leave out the fact that the father was unable to do it in the beginning. it doesn't tell that. it also doesn't mention head injuries which might have bearing on whether or not there might be self-defense. do you have any problems with the way the prosecution team got this warrant? >> well, sure. and horrible wouldn't it have been if there were not depositions and the ability to get into what happened fully. that statement, that affidavit
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said zimmerman confronted trayvon and a struggle ensued. that whole provoked, confronted, they always gave the implication that george zimmerman attacked first and there was never any evidence of that. >> i was going to say, not only the evidence that they had at the point of the warrant was what they got from george zimmerman. tragical tragically, trayvon martin couldn't give. it was vastly different. it said he was not the one that did the confronting. let me go to you, add. allen der show wits has used the word disbarred. do you think this affidavit is at least an alarming sign? >> your extra sensory perception is what i was thinking at that immediate time. you're right on target. i think that this prosecutor clearly should be fired. when i look at this affidavit,
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there are more inconsistency and more inaccuracies in this affidavit than meets the eye. one of them you pointed out, that they're saying that trayvon martin's mother is the one who made the voice identification. it wasn't trayvon's mother at that time or it was tracy martin who made a voice identification and there's dispute about how he didn't tell the police officers that it was his son. the police officers said it was his son. i was in that trial and when i look at this affidavit about another thing, saying that trayvon martin ran, that's not true. none of that came in the evidence. think about this. this affidavit is to support a second degree murder and bottom line is there's nothing showing ill will, spite or any of the prerequisite that is are necessary, greta. this is just atrocious and
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horrible and is unprofessional. >> let me repeat what jim said. it didn't have any affect on the impact of this. which happened to be in favor of george zimmerman. but it certainly gives you a sense of this prosecutor's office in terms of fair play in a prosecution. panel, stand by for one second. we'll have much more to talk about. right now, the heartbroken parents of trayvon martin saying they were shocked by the not guilty verdict. today sybrina fulton and tracy martin talking about the jury's decision. >> we've heard from one of the jurors, only one so far who said that trayvon played a role in his death. she said he could have walked away and gone home. what's your response to that? >> my response to that is that i think people forgetting that trayvon was a teenager. so he probably thought as a teenager, i really do believe he was afraid because he did call george zimmerman creepy. so he was afraid. >> is there something you wish the jurors knew that they didn't
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know? >> i wish they really knew trayvon for who he was and knew that he was a kid. they really didn't get a chance to -- they didn't know him as a human being. so i just wish that they had an opportunity to really know who trayvon was and to put that in content with what their decision was. >> trayvon martin very well. he used to be his football coach and remains friends with the family. jerome joins us. nice to see you, sir. >> thank you. thanks for having me. >> it's so tragic about these cases. we never get to know the person who died in the murder cases. the family and friends do. the trials really aren't usually about whether or not the person is in the courtroom is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. who trayvon is, it's important so i mean tell us, you knew him.
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what is he like? >> he was just a huge kid. he was a funny kid, loved to joke. he loved helping people. i mean, this is a kid that at age 14, he saved his father's life. no one knows that. stuff like that, you never hear about it. >> tell us how he saved his father's life. i know because i've looked into this a little bit. tell the viewers. >> his father was fell asleep one time in their apartment after a long day on the park. he left some grease on the stove and when the smoke alarm went off, he got up and tried to put the fire out and he tossed sheet on the stove. grease fell and burned him from the midsection to the bottom of his feet and he collapsed. trayvon came in and drugged him out of the house. out of the apartment. went back in, got his cell phone and called 9-1-1. so he saved his father's life.
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that eats at tracy a lot. because his son saved his life and he wasn't dare to save his son's life. >> i have no doubt whatsoever that there are broken hearts in this case and the parents probably have the biggest broken hearts. i am curious whether the prosecution before this case began going to trial, did they talk to the parents and tell them about some of the state of the evidence. the difficulties, the prosecution expected to encounter? >> they explained all of that. how difficult it was. but what everyone understood and what tracy and sybrina understand was the bottom line is he was told to stay in his car. he still chose to get out of the car and follow trayvon. all of this would have been -- would have never happened if he never followed trayvon. >> is there any way to -- the jury's decided the case. the jury listened to the case and i understand the pain of the family and the friends.
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is there any way to sort of put the lid on the simmering hostility? there's no way to mend the broken heart. i got that. but there's a horrible sort of simmering pain in this country that's causing people to say horrible things and maybe -- and hurt other people in terms of what they say. >> i think it's so hard because this isn't the first time something like this happened. this happens on and off a lot. you hear about it in history. you hear about guys being arrested and charged with a crime and spending 15, 20 years in prison and then a dna comes out 20 years later and they realize that they're innocent. but they were found guilty and they gave up 20 years of their life. most of these people are african-americans. i mean, everyone talks about gun control laws. but it's okay when it's black on blacks killing each other. >> no it's not. you know what, i don't think it
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is. there's been an awful lot of crimes in chicago. that's one of my criticisms of the attorney general. he talked about neighborhoods. look at detroit. detroit has gone under. no jobs for the youth in detroit and unemployment level of 30% predominantly in african-american and you've got chicago, black on black. that's not okay with me either. there isn't that attention by attention leaders. to that. >> right. that's the reality that we live in. it can bother me, it can bother you, it can bother millions of people in this country. but there's still another ten million people that it doesn't bother. in you measure it up a million versus ten million, they'll always go with the ten million. >> is there -- have you spoken to the parents in the last couple days? >> yeah. i speak to tracy every day. >> what does he say? how is he doing? >> he's disappointed. there's no way he thought that george zimmerman would be found not guilty. i mean, you got to understand, he lost a son.
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and everyone -- you keep hearing the defense attorney saying give george zimmerman back his life, let him live his life. trayvon would never see his life again. you can't give them back their son. he's never going to get -- this is their son who was just walking home. he wasn't bothering anybody. he was walking home. if he would have allowed him to walk home, all this would be null and void right now. >> jerome, thanks for joining us, sir. >> thank you so much for having me. >> moments before trayvon was shot, trayvon martin was talking on the phone to rachel jeantel. the trial thrusting jeantel into the spotlight. but she spent hours going head to head with the defense team. >> so the last thing you heard was some kind much noise like something hitting somebody? >> at trayvon -- trayvon got hit. >> you don't know that, do you? >> no. >> you don't know that trayvon
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got hit. >> he -- >> you don't know that trayvon didn't at that moment take his fist and drive it into george zimmerman's face. >> lower your voice. >> do you? >> no, sir. >> when the state closed, they're trying to explain what kind of person i am. you could see the kind of person i am. i never cussed at don. even during our little back -- since march i've been dealing with don westin. the only reason i have not said nothing to don, because my parents taught me better. that's -- you don't have the right to disrespect an adult. >> now we're hearing what alternate juror e-54 thought about jeantel's testimony. >> i think the things that i focused on when i was -- when i
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was doing my own deliberation was the nonemergency phone call. i did pick up on some things out of rachel jeantel's testimony. trayvon martin's phone records or her phone records, when they were talking. >> did you think rachel jeantel was credible? >> i did pick up some credible information from her. so yeah, i do think she was credible. >> now back to our panel. diana, if i were on the jury for this case, i would have found her testimony inconsequential. not particularly powerful for the prosecution and not harmful to the defense. that she was only there to sort of set a timeline. it's almost like the media, i don't know if they're sort of using her or making her into a different part of the trial than she was. your thoughts on her. >> well, i think the state of florida made her important because they really needed trayvon martin to be the victim of physical aggression first. and so the whole little get off, get off at the end of the conversation and the sound of
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grass was supposed to be, i think, for the jury from the state perspective, george zimmerman physically attacking trayvon martin first. they needed that to disprove self-defense. i think for the state, she was important. ultimately, you can't make a witness your sole case. when you start off training her and grooming her testimony on the couch of the decedent's mom's -- >> the way it started out, it's horrible. >> jim, i sort of think that people made a caricature of her. i think it's like -- for some reason i don't like that. >> i'm frankly ticked off at people who did that. it's a defense attorney's job to go after a witness. i found somewhat offensive critique of her as being educated. she talked about what she saw. i think she has a lot of dignity. i liked her more when i watched the full hour interview with her. i think she was an important witness, greta. i disagree with some people on
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the panel with that. there was -- george zimmerman as he said wanted to make sure that these -- i don't want to say the swear word again. the [ bleep ] didn't get away with. he was pissed off and didn't get away with -- at least for most of the encounter. i don't know what happened to -- >> then you get to the four-minute gap when he said he was going to go away and he could have easily run home. >> it's the scene of a hunter and hunted. for me as a prosecutor, that would be important. >> that four-minute gap. let me go to you on that, ted. it was a potent one. it was four minutes to run home and it would have taken him 15 second and he hung around. >> that four-minute gap, i was in court when that was brought up. but i found that to be speculative because the sad part about this, trayvon is not here to say which direction he was going to go. >> but ted, you were out there. it didn't take four minutes to go from where he was to where he lived. that took like -- i could have
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run it in 20 seconds. i figured he could run it in 15. >> absolutely. but there's nothing that says that he had to run home. he could have ran back and punched zimmerman for all we know. >> it defeated the explanation that he was fearful and ran home. instead it led to the reasonable thought and bernie, i go back to you quickly. he instead was more aggressive and perhaps the aggressor. bernie? >> good point. everyone knows this. jim brought it up about three weeks ago. there were two witnesses to this event. immediate witnesses who were there when it happened. one is dead. zimmerman, whether he's telling the truth or not, his manner, the way it happened came in unrebutted. rachel jeantel, i liked her. i don't like the fact she was victimized. she is who she is. she's not courtroom sophisticated. in the interview, i wish she was prepared like that for the trial. >> i agree with you. i got go. thank you. straight ahead, the forensics, hugely important in this trial. the star defense witness, dr.
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vincent de mayo is here and he's next. >> it was like a nuclear strike. what does she mean like that? the latest on the hearing in the scandal. congressman gowdy is here to discuss that. erican express cre, every purchase earns you 2% cash back, which is deposited in your fidelity account. is that it? actually... there's no annual fee and no limits on rewards. and with the fidelity cash management account debit card, you get reimbursed for all atm fees. is that it? oh, this guy, too. turn more of the money you spend into money you invest. it's everyday reinvesting for your personal economy. [ tap ] ♪ 'cause tonight [ tap ] ♪ we'll share the same dream ♪ ♪ at the dark end of the street ♪
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he was a key defense witness. dr. vincent di maio. he testified the forensic evidence is consistent with the fatal shooting. >> the wound itself by the gap, by the powder tattooing in the face of a contact of the clothing indicates that this is consistent with mr. zimmerman's account that he -- that mr.
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martin was over him leaning forward at the time he was shot. >> forensic pathologist dr. vincent di maio joins us. nice to see you, sir. >> nice o to see you. >> as i understand it, the words you used is consistent with. those are -- that's not that you are certain or probably. >> no. >> just that you can't -- what does it mean? consistent with? >> in this case it means confirmatory of mr. zimmerman's account of what happened. it confirms his account. >> is there any doubt in your mind, i mean, is it an expert opinion -- when you say confirms, do you say you have no doubt in your mind that it occurred as george zimmerman described it? >> that's correct, greta. >> is it -- when you made that determination, what did you look at? did you look at pictures or clothes? what were you able to review? >> well, i reviewed the photographs of the clothing,
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which indicated that there was a contact defect in the hoodie. and then i read the firearms report which said the same thing that i concluded by looking at the photographs. i then looked at the autopsy and the autopsy photographs, which showed the gunshot wound in the left chest approximately an inch to the left of the mid. with the gunshot lying in a 2 by 2 inch area of powder tattooing. i had a closeup photograph of the powder tattooing. >> i was going to say, the powder tattooing, does that indicate there was a space between the hoodie and the chest? would it look different if the hoodie was flat against the chest? >> yes, it would have. if the hoodie had been flat against the chest, you would have had a circular entrance wound surrounded by a wide cuff of blackened and partially
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seared skin. what you have with tattooing with that size and density, the muzzle of the gun was maybe 2 to 4 inches away from the skin at the time of discharge. so while the muzzle -- >> go ahead. i'm sorry. >> no. while the muzzle was in contact with the clothing, the clothing was 2 to 4 inches away from the chest. and this is consistent -- this is consistent with the account of mr. zimmerman that mr. martin was leaning over him so that the hoodie would have fallen away from the skin. >> is there any other explanation for it to be have the distance? for instance, if you're pushing away and trying to get away from someone and you're standing, would you expect that the hoodie could be pulled away from the chest or not? >> okay. you can forget about standing.
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the only way you can get a pattern like that of standing would be if somebody grabbed your shirt and pulled it this way, in which case the contact defect which here when the hoodie falls back into normal position would have been over here. in other words, the -- >> i'm sorry. >> in other words, the defect in the clothing would not have matched the defect in the body. >> as best we can sort of piece together with the testimony other than george zimmerman of course is that they were both on the ground. so it seems that one had to be over the other. they both couldn't have been standing or is there some possibility they could have been standing at the time of the discharge of the weapon? >> and i considered that and i felt that was not possible with both standing as i just explained. and that if you assume that they're on the ground, then mr.
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zimmerman had to be on his back with mr. martin over him leaning over the chest area of mr. zimmerman such that the gun was pushed up against the clothing, discharged, made the defect. the powder went through the defect and hit the chest producing the powder tattooing. dr. di maio thanks very much sir for joining us. >> thank you, greta. coming up, you heard the latest news about the irs. my advice? irs lawyers might start thinking about getting themselves lawyers. this noose could be tightening. congressman trey gowdy is here and there is news tonight in the national health care fight. the president is caught in a tight political squeeze. what is he threatening to do? house majority whip mccarthy is coming up. this day calls you.
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do you find this disgusting? the irs tried to pin the scandal
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on employees in cincinnati. today a former irs lawyer, yes a lawyer telling congress he took orders from way up the chain of command in washington. also testifying today on capitol hill cincinnati irs worker who says she was deeply offended by the blame placed on her office in cincinnati. >> tell me how you felt when lois lerner with the planning question on may 10th says this was inappropriate actions by line people in cincinnati? >> sir, like i said before, it was like a nuclear strike and i still -- >> that's a term you used with -- >> with the earlier interviews. >> with your interview, a nuclear strike. >> lois lerner sat where those witnesses sat several weeks ago and these two witnesses put on a uniform and defend thd country and the constitution so she could hide behind the constitution invoke her fifth
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amendment right but only after she blamed them. >> trey gowdy joins us. good evening sir. >> good evening. how are you? >> very well. after today's hearing how high up in the irs are you suspicious that some of this targeting went on? >> well, i want to take a good hard look at the chief counsel for myriad of reasons. number one, he's a political appointee. what we learned today is that the chief counsel knew of a guide sheet, i want -- i don't want to call it a bolo, a guide sheet. he has a background in tax exempt organizations. it's not as if he can claim he was unaware of what they were doing. he's an expert in it. >> are you talking about mr. wilkins? >> yes, ma'am. >> who incidentally, out of cure os tirks he's a political appointee, he and his former law firm represented reverend jeremiah wright's church in a
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similar tax controversy, right? >> for free. >> for free. >> i might add. >> yes. if you want to take a look at the chief counsel, this is what i'd like. if this -- i'm appalled that lawyers might be involved and for some reason and maybe i'm wrong, i think they have a higher duty. i don't know if the bar counsel takes a look at it and takes a look at what the lawyers are up to. if they're up to no good. i don't know how you feel. bar counsel could have influence. all right. what is the suggestion that the chief counsel's office did or might have done? >> well, the chief counsel -- keep in mind, we've had political activity in this country since before it was founded and the numeric code hasn't changed. 50% means what 50% has always meant. why the additional scrutiny in 2010? there's nothing novel about these legal issues. there's nothing extraordinarily complex about these applications. why did you have to get washington involved in the chief counsel's office to approve
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pretty innocuous 501 c 4 applications? mr. hole has been doing it 48 years, greta. since the year i was born. so why is he having to send to washington to get permission to approve an application that he's been approving for 48 years? >> why are the lawyers cowardly that they want to let the cincinnati to fall on this and they've been sitting there like deaf mutes and not saying a word hoping that others take the fall, what about that? >> well, they thought they could get away with it. the more people that come forward, like mr. hull, the more -- we've interviewed eight people in ohio, eight people in washington. one thing we know for sure, even jay carney should be aware of this by now, it wasn't two rogue agents in ohio. the district of columbia office's fingerprints are all over this scandal. we've interviewed eight in ohio, eight in the district of columbia. we need to keep interviewing folks. people that have knowledge and are willing to come forward.
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but you know, we had two former soldiers, two public servants today who did have to withstand congressional questions while lois lerner invokes her fifth amendment privileges, falsely accuses them and never has to give an accounting for her role in it. i'm understanding of people reluctant to come forward, but if we're ever going to find out everyone involved, then anyone with firsthand knowledge has to come to the oversight committee. >> congressman, thank you. i'll see if there's a discussion about a special prosecutor as this gets investigated. thank you, sir. >> yes, ma'am. coming up, republicans revving up their fight against obama care and president obama striking back. kevin mccarthy is here next. the fbi has news for george zimmerman. could it be a sign of more trouble ahead for him. the latest in just two minutes.
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he was acquitted and has a lawful permit to carry a gun. the doj is deciding whether to file civil rights charges against zimmerman. for now, the sanford police department is saying it is complying with the fed's request and stopping its plan to return the gun to zimmerman. earlier this week, we asked zimmerman's brother about the gun. >> i think that gun, i don't know how he's going to feel about having that gun. i would hope that he would consider destroying that gun. he may have very good reason to want to be armed because of the numerous threats directed at him and at his family. you know, you can't afford to be wrong with a threat like that. i think he's learned from this experience and he would be very responsible. >> do you think george zimmerman should get his gun back now, yes or no. go to greta wire.com. vote in our poll. we're back in two minutes. yes or no, greta wire.com. can become major victories. i'm phil mickelson, pro golfer. when i was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis, my rheumatologist prescribed enbrel for my pain and stiffness, and to help stop joint damage.
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the republican controlled house has voted to dough lay two key parts of obama care. the individual and employer mandates. in response, president obama
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slamming the republicans for refighting old battles. the gop lawmakers, what do they have to say? kevin mccarthy joins us. geechblg, sir. >> thanks for having me. good evening. today the president said more than 8.5 million americans are getting rebates from insurers this summer. true or false? that sounds like a pretty good number if you're one of the 8.5 million. >> i always firmly believe, look how much insurance cost has been risen? everybody's insurance cost is rising. i don't see anybody getting a rebate or something cheaper in the long run. >> you think the 8.5, is that fuzzy math. are some people benefiting from this health care, costs going down for anybody? >> the majority are hurting. one thing that you'll find, even if obama care goes into effect and it's ten years, the gao's office investigated and said there will be 30 million americans still uninsured. it will not solve the goal it set out to be. think of this. the president first in a blog post right before the fourth of
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july, says he wants to postpone employer ease mandates. >> let me talk about that. i didn't like that. i thought it was a sneaky way to do it. i also very suspicious, maybe it's just me. that they've known for quite some time that the employer mandate would not go into effect in january for whatever reason and that sort of that, the sort of sneaking it in during a july holiday when the journalists are off sunning themselves or whatever they do. i didn't like that. do you have any information that there was any discussion at any time preceding july that they were going to postpone it? >> not at this moment. because when you take secretary sebelius and others who have been through numerous hearings inside congress when they were asked, they would always say we were prepared, obama care is going into effect, we're prepared to make it happen. well, why is that the case and all of a sudden they shift gears, put it on a time when people aren't paying attention and where does the president have the power to pick and choose what he wants to enforce
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in a law. that is a fundamental -- >> it makes people reasonably suspicious of the fact that it won't go into effect, it's not particularly popular to a lot of businesses until after the midterm election, january 2015. this suggested, if he wants to put democratic colleagues in -- let's turn to the house. the house passed a bill now to delay not just the employer mandate that the president has now said that's going to be delayed, but also the individual mandate. and the president has threatened, i think, to veto both. can he veto the employer mandate if at the same time, he says that he doesn't want it anyway on january 14th? does he veto something that he doesn't want anyway? >> well, we've got to get it through the senate. but what's most ironic to me, the president says the republicans are at this. i think he needs to look at the vote. this was a very big bipartisan vote. 35 democrats joined with us on the employer and 22 joined with us on the individual. what i would say is, why is the
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president picking businesses over individuals? aren't individuals just as important? if not more than businesses. but that's what the president is doing. i think he's playing politics one, that he heard from many democrats who voted for this bill that does not want to go before the voters and when it's being enacted and have to have an election. they're trying to postpone it just as he postponed it -- he didn't want it in effect after his reelection. >> how many democrats did you peel off to vote with the republicans to delay the mandate, employer and individual, any? >> 35 in the employer, 22 on the individual. and how it worked is, they were two individual votes. but at the end of the vote, both bills were tied together and sent to the senate. so that is sitting in the senate. for the president to veto that or threaten that, this is one thing that he said he wanted on a blog post. >> explain to me, let's say the senate hypothetically agreed
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with the house and it was sent to the white house. the president would have to -- would veto it probably. we'd go back to what we said. he'd veto something in something he agreed to, in order to veto the original mandate. >> he was against it before he was for it. it makes no sense. it makes no sense what he even said today. there is a number of individuals, not to be flippant. but remember, when we were debating obama care, then was speaker pelosi and she always made the comment, you have to pass it to know what's in it. democrats are finding what's inside it when they voted for it and now they're very, very afraid and they know -- look at senator max baucus. he said it's a train wreck. >> it will be interesting to watch and see what happens. there are a lot of people for, a lot of people against it. it's never stopped having a lot of controversy. congressman, thank you, sir. >> thanks for having me, greta. >> did the obama administration did something dirty?
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our next guest says the administration did and it cost 25 people jobs. are the real numbers much bigger? find out next.
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>> greta: employer mandate is bad business saying i will cost jobs and lots of them, then, to the surprise of
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everyone, the obama administration listed the news it was delaying employer mandates. so are employers happy? he joins us. good evening, sir. >> how do you do? >> very well. tell me, are you unhappy with the fact employer mandate has been extended for a year? and if it cost jobs in your business to employees? >> we have already cut employees so this is the horse is out of the barn for us. we've cut employees to try to get under the 50 employee level. earlier this spring. so... we have -- it's cost us jobs we've made a decision to adjust our plan and reduce our employee counts it's too late for us. >> i know you say it cost jobs to you but just the flip side
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it's a lot of -- 25 people lost jobs. costing family that's lost them as a consequence of this. it's been painful for them. i'm curious do you have a position that the obama administration was well aware they intended to postpone this date maybe four or five months? would it have made a doimpbs hiring or fire something. >> i don't know whether they had that suspicion or not. four months ago we had to make a decision and that was in february or march. it was a painful decision. these employ yeses we felt badly. that we were turning employees out of jobs, and in the middle of the winter when they couldn't find other work. we were not happy with it. >> as i understand prior to ob dwrauma -- obama care you did fund 100% of health care insurance? >> several years ago we were paying 100% of the insurance. we believe that in order to
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control health care costs in the long run, individuals and families have to have a stake in controlling costs. you do not control the costs of a wedding reception by having a open bar. you have to have people with a vested interest in controlling health care costs in the long run. you don't do that by requiring employees, employers and mandating employers to provide health care. we were providing. >> i'm sorry, sir. >> and we're providing 100% of the costs and we saw behaviors we thought needed to go by and we moved to a high deductible health saving as kt plan. and after employees to contribute to the plan. so that employees would understand the cost of health care and help control costs of
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health care. >> sir thanks for joining us. it's regrettable good jobs were lost, thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> coming up what in the world is nsa leaker edward snowden thinking? that is next. [ brent ] now steve's looking pretty good so far. [ herbie ] eh, hold on brent, what's this? mmmm, nice car. there's no doubt, that's definitely gonna throw him off. she's seen it too. oh this could be trouble. [ sentra lock noise ] oh man. gotta think fast, herbie. back pedal, back pedal. [ crowd cheering ] oh, he's down in flames and now the ice-cold shoulder.
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>> greta: reporters from around the world trying to track down edward snowden. did david letterman get the scoop. >> i love those sausages. >> yes. yes. >> and i think you're -- i think it's vienna. >> oh, crap. >> dave if you can help me get asylum i'll send you a bottle of duty free vodka. >> that is great but i don't drink. i haven't had anything to drink in a long time. >> that is not what your nsa file says, boom. you just got snowdenned.
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>> join us tomorrow to take a look at the zimmerman trial controversy. go to gretawire.com and vote in the poll. good night from new york. e fact. >> the o'reilly factor is on. tonight: >> i'm tired of this administration having to keep having these hearings. >> does the gentleman yield? >> yes. >> i want to answer your allegation. these are not just talking points. >> bill: more hearings about the irs scandal. now some democrats in congress are attacking the investigation. we will show you what happened today. >> would the gentleman yield for just five seconds? >> that is absolutely not true. >> this is a person who -- of our ears. to his pier group seemed like one of them. >> bill: "rolling stone" magazine under intense pressure because some believe they are glorifying the boston terrorist. geraldo will weigh in on that. donald trump, mania over

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