tv Geraldo at Large FOX News July 20, 2013 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT
this year alone, i hit new york and texas. see, hotwire checks the competition's rates every day so they can guarantee their low hotel prices. >> men: ♪ h-o-t-w-i-r-e, hotwire.com. ♪ this is a fox news alert. i'm geraldo rivera reporting that peaceful rallies in new york, l.a., atlanta, miami, and scores of other cities around the country today honored trayvon martin. exactly one week after a florida jury found george zimmerman not guilty of killing the unarmed teenager. >> we cannot have a society where any one of our children can be taken down. they have the right to stand their ground. what about trayvon's rights to
stand his ground? what about our rights to stand our ground? >> the new york rally was attended by scores of politicians and celebrities including jay-z and beyonce. it is clear that to these protesters, the real star of the show is in the white house. >> you don't know about being guilty until proven innocent. you don't know the humiliation about how people judge you based on what your skin color is rather than your character, and nobody said it better than the president of the united states, barack obama. >> when trayvon martin was first shot, i said that this could have been my son. another way of saying that is trayvon martin could have been me 35 years ago. >> after more than four years during which the nation's first black president largely avoided
the issue of race, his extraordinary speech friday is not without controversy. >> now he's gone ahead and done it again, repeating talking points from a lot of activists in the community that are displeased with the outcome and are really looking for essentially a public crucifixition of george zimmerman. >> he did it because he's the most devisive president. >> give me a break. >> tonight we'll debate whether the presidency helped or hurt and go deep into the grim reality that everyone from the white house on down is ignoring. the fact the most urgent threat to the civil rights of young black men is from the guns of other young black men. in chicago a 6-year-old girl was caught in the crossfire friday night as two more young black men died, but there's one point on which all agree. >> i think it's understandable that there have been demonstrations and vigils and protests and some of that stuff
is just going to have to work its way through as long as it remains non-violent. if i see any violence, then i will remind folks that that dishonors what happened to trayvon martin. >> i want your voices to be heard, but you have to make sure that we do it in a peaceful manner. i want to lead by example. >> the graving mother reminds us of another family's call for non-violence after they suffered a similar loss 50 years ago this november. this is robert kennedy. >> for those of you who are black and are tempted to be filled with hatred and distrust of the injustice of such an act against all white people, i would only say that i can also feel in my own heart the same kind of feeling. i had a member of my family
killed, but he was killed by a white man. >> two extraordinary women are tonight's first guests. one of them is our own santita jackson whose dad, the reverend jesse jackson, was in memphis where dr. martin luther king, jr. was cut down by a sniper's bullet. welcome. so generally speaking, what do you think of today's -- so nice to see you again -- today's demonstrations. what do you think of the president's speech, his extraordinary speech yesterday? >> well, you know, it's wonderful to be here with you always, geraldo. i was really glad to see a peaceful demonstration today, a multi-racial, a multi-cultural demonstration, and the world got a chance to see that people who questioned this verdict, in particular, african-americans, do not seek revenge. we simply seek redress. although the verdict is in, the jury is still out in the court of public opinion, and so there are many unanswered questions, and i hope that we can move forward and answer these
questions and deal with some of the tougher issues that lie underneath this verdict because at the end of the day, geraldo, you see that this was about a child, 16 years and 21 days as the court papers describe trayvon martin. this is a dead child. i hope we never lose sight of that. with respect to the president's remarks, he has a powerful personal narrative, and i'm hoping to see all of this translate itself into potent policy. these sentiments are wonderful, but we need some solutions. for far too long i think our pride, our justifiable pride in the first african-american president has trumped our move towards policies we need. i was glad to hear him yesterday. i'm anxious to see what will be the result of all this. >> are you implying, santita, where has the president been on race leelingses for the last four years? >> no, not at all. one of the things we've learned, you know, this has been a sharp learning curve for everyone, geraldo.
how does the nation deal with the first african-american president? this is something that everybody in american families had to learn. and so now i think we're learning, hopefully regardless of who is in the white house, how you respectfully push for policy, particularly if it's someone you like and they're doing things that you question. so no, i'm just glad to hear him weigh in now. i know that it was because there was a push, particularlily from his base that helped to make this happen. >> the other extraordinary lady joining us, dr. alveda jones, where did i get that. alveda king, a whose uncle, dr. martin luther king, jr. was shot dead. great to see you. >> hello to you and to santita. i want you to know i love you, too. >> is it true, dr. king, that
you generally speaking disapprove of today's demonstrations and protests? >> i do not disapprove of the demonstrations and protests as long as they remain peaceful, but if they begin to stir up the people with agitation and animosity, that is not what the parents of trayvon martin desire, and certainly i've not been raised like that from daddy king, my daddy, and dr. martin luther king, jr. so we want peaceful, non-violence conflict resolution. what about the cause that motivated these thousands of people to take to the streets, dr. king? is there, in your view, a racist incident that happened in sanford, florida 16 months ago? >> i talked to my cousins at the rally today. i was very encouraged to know that people do rally and they're praying. i want them to be peaceful. of course, what happened in florida was racially motivated because people have not yet understood we are one human race. we're not separate races.
martin luther king, jr. said we must learn to live together as brothers. i now add as sisters or pashishh es full. if yoi believe we have to have s conversation about race right now. >> do you think the debate is useful? >> the debate is useful and you didn't ask me how i feel about the president's remarks. however, santita said something that i can definitely agree with. we don't want politics. we don't want lip service. we want it to be done sincerely so that there can be a time of transformation of the human heart, and that's what we're after here, so that trayvon's death will definitely not be in vain. >> before i run out of time, dr. king, you first. well, first of all, did the president wait too long to speak about race and justice? >> i believe he should have been speaking about it a long time ago, and i think it's appropriate now to have the conversation and he is not the one that initiated the
conversation. i believe that the people of america have initiated it, crying out for the injustice of the death of trayvon martin. >> and where do we go from here, santita? >> well, i think we go onward and upward. if we follow the example of reverend dr. martin luther king, as dr. alveda king says, we must learn to come together as one human race. if we continue to be black, white, brown, yellow, and red, although that is very important, if we transform this struggle into a human struggle, i think we will really make a lot of changes, meaningful changes, which is what dr. king was talking about. he didn't just speak about a new race, a new human race. he wanted us to move forward and eradicate racism. he wanted us to eradicate this need for materialism. we need to dig deeper and listen to what reverend dr. martin luther king, not just in his dream but as he described the
nightmare we're living today. >> from conception until natural death. >> okay. dr. king, thank you very much. santita jackson, thank you. coming up, it's no secret that many in the black community, including dear friends of mine, have been critical of the circumstances that rainy night in san sanford florida including his hoodie contributing to the youngsters death. you'll hear my critics live. later, the witness had damning information linking a triple murder to the boston marathon bomber in the other story we're covering tonight. we'll investigate how and why that witness was killed while in fbi custody and ask if there's a coverup going on. back in a flash after this. ♪
african-american in this country that haven't had the experience of being followed while they're in shopping in a store including me. they walk across the street and hear the locks click on the doors of cars. that happened to me, at least before i was a senator. there are very few african-americans who haven't had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. that happens often. >> nobody can seriously contradict the president's remarks there, but what he did not say was why people reacto young black men the way they do, in the extreme. the way george zimmerman did that awful night in florida. but was zimmerman really guilty of racism or racial profiling when he followed that kid?
or was it zimmerman's real life experiences with crime in his neighborhood that motivated his terrible action that night? either way, an unarmed teen ager is dead, so should zimmerman now be charged with a federal hate crime? with us now are niger ennis of the congress of racial equality, and ted williams, former cop, lawyer, and fox news contributor, and rod wheeler, the former d.c. homicide detective who believes zimmerman should at least have been convicted of manslaughter. welcome, gentlemen. am i right, rod, you wanted him convicted of manslaughter? >> yeah, i did. i mean, that's just looking at it not necessarily from a racial standpoint, geraldo, not at all. you know i always look at things from the legality of it. if you really look at the law, even though i clearly understand the stand your ground law, this was a case of manslaughter. one other thing real quickly i just want to kind of illustrate to the viewers. remember a while back right after 911 when our good friend
juan warms made a comment about how when he gets on airplanes and he sees certain type of people he kind of cringes a bit? i honestly believe that's kind of the feeling that zimmerman had, and that's not to say that these individuals are racist or anything, but i can kind of understand based on their experience. juan is clearly not racist, but based on his experience, so maybe that's what happened here in this case with zimmerman and trayvon, geraldo. >> judge jeanine: and therefore, ted williams, should it be a crime that generates such racial emotions? >> well, when you say should it be a crime that generates racial emotion, what are you speaking of? are you speaking of in a sense of just the mere fact of following somebody or what is it that you're getting at so i can make sure i understand you. >> geraldo: as rod wheeler describes it, george zimmerman as he just referred, he was responding to his life experiences, ted. he had a neighborhood that had been plagued by young black
criminals in the weeks and months leading up to this terrible incident. he was responding not to the blackness of trayvon but rather to the fact that trayvon in that hoodie that rainy night looked like the crooks who had jacked up the housing complex in the immediate past. >> you know, i think that's garbage. i think that there's a combination here of what was going on in the mind of mr. zimmerman, and first of all, he saw a young black guy in a hoodie. yes, there had been robbers. it's sort of like at the trial. i thought it was very substantially more prejudicial than probative to put on a white woman who said that two quote unquote, african-americans had attempted to attack her in her home, and that just poisoned this trial. i don't know where in the hell and why in the hell those lawyers didn't object to that and why did that come in? it had no relevance at all. again, try to remember. this hoodie thing, this
stereotyping. he had a hoodie on why that night? why? it was raining that night. if you had an umbrella, you would have put an umbrella up. you know, i think that zimmerman had a combination of both. he said these young punks, they always get away with it. i think he was speaking toward the black issue there, so yes, i think there was a tint of racism involved in this as it pertains to zimmerman. >> geraldo: okay, ted. got it. gotta give niger his opening statement. >> real quick, first of all, i want to applaud the trayvon martin family for operating with such honor and dignity. my family has had the pain of losing two young black men, my brothers, and the amount of dignity and decency that they have demonstrated throughout this entire process should be applaud. i think that's something we should all agree upon. in terms of the image of young black men which i hope we get into in the next segment, zimmerman is no more guilty of racism than santita jackson's father who said he feels
comfortable when he's walking down a dark alley and he looks behind him and he sees that there are white people as opposed to young black men. so is that racism on the part of jesse jackson? i don't think so. i think we have to tell some hard truths about the images and perceptions of young black men. >> geraldo: we have to tell those hard truths in the next segment. later in the program we're going to chicago to talk about black on black crime. we'll debate the question of whether reverend al is a race baiter that some of my colleagues at fox believe him to be.
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he's not fair. >> i think al sharpton really is the premier civil rights act visit of the 21st century. >> geraldo: let's talk sharpton for a minute continuing with rod wheeler, ted williams, and niger innis of the congress of racial equality. do you think reverend al is a race-baiter? >> look. you and i and others on the panel have known reverend al for 30 years or more. al sharpton is nothing if he's not consistent. al sharpton is doing what al sharpton does. i think, though, as we try to find solutions, it's important to identify what the real problems are. there are over 55 trayvon martins killed in our ghettos all across this country, in the chicagos, the president's home town, clevelands, the detroits every week, over 55. they're not killed by the klan. they're not killed by george
zimmerman. they're killed by other young black men. that is a crisis that is a genocide, and i hope that the president and others, and i applaud the civic engagement taking place all across our country. it's been relatively peaceful. i applaud citizens of our country getting engaged in the civic process, but i hope that we identify what the real problem is and what the real crisis is among young black men. >> geraldo: all right, rod wheeler, take that on. what do you think. >> i agree with niger surprisingly because i didn't think i would agree with him. he's exactly right. al sharpton is not a race-baiter. i know some people think he is. some of the people in the media have portrayed him as being devisive. actually, you know he what, geraldo, you know this better than anybody else. you've been on the front lines before. you were marching when you were young wrer about different issues, so it's important that we have people like al sharpton in our lives to kind of raise the awareness, raise the consciousness. they all play a pivotal role in
the future of this country. >> what about what niger said about the real threat to other young black men? >> he's exactly right. if you look at the facts, and the facts speak for themselves. we have african-american males killing african-american males. that's why we need the marches. that's why we're marching. we have a substantial amount of african-americans filling up our prisons, far greater than any other race. we need to march because of that. we do need to march because there is money being taken out of the school system for after school programs, so i think he's exactly right. we do need to address those issues. >> geraldo: ted williams, how do you feel about that? is that a separate issue, the black on black violence or is that appropriate to be discussed in the context of trayvon martin and the civil rights? >> no, no. i think it's -- the issues themselves are well connected, and i have to agree with both of the panel members here. the thing about it, though, and with sharpton, sharpton speaks for a segment of the community that no one seems to speak for,
even in the administration. you know, what i am sad about is yes, that they are black on black killings, and it just seems as though nobody gives a damn, and i would just wish if we're going to -- if the president of the united states is going to speak out about a beer summit in cambridge, massachusetts or if the president of the united states is going to speak out about trayvon martin, i would hope that he could be as vociferous about what is going on in chicago. bring people together to try to make a determination. >> i agree. >> about how we bring a met more morephosis about in this nation. [ thunder crashes ] [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending.
live from america's news headquarters i'm robert gray in los angeles. well, the world is on royal baby watch. prince william and kate middleton expecting their first baby any day now. the child will be third in line to the british throne regardless of gender and the producer of "glee" is planning a special tribute episode to honor corimont ease who died of an overdose of heroin and alcohol and will address the death of ben hudson, will be
the third in the fifth season set to premier september 26th. i'm robert gray. now back to "geraldo at large". large. >> geraldo: as people across this country protest for the civil rights of young black men and boys like trayvon martin, thousands of them in the streets today, a righteous cause for sure, but what is or at least has been virtually ignored in the big stage until very, very recently is a far greater peril than we've been talking about, the peril facing communities in cities like new orleans and detroit and newark and cleveland and chicago. craig now investigates the hurricane of black-on-black violence in the windy city where so far this year, 150 young blank men and 21 young black women have been killed by other black people.
>> reporter: as protesters join justice for trayvon rallies around the country, community activists in chicago where carnage is a daily occurrence ask where is the national outrage for black-on-black violence? >> he was in the ambulance. he didn't see our face or nothing. >> just minutes before she was playing, riding her bicycle. >> yeah. and then she got shot. then all of the police and the ambulance came. >> were you scared? >> yes, i am. >> a tragic but all too typical friday night as shots ring out across chicago. two men killed, seven others wounded including a 6-year-old girl as neighbors including young children watch in horror. >> i don't want people to die. >> him seeing all this, his dream's not going to come true if people keep shooting kids. it's not. it's sad. sad.
>> reporter: part of the tragedy is the collateral damage. tonight, a 6-year-old girl who was partying right in front of her home, riding her bicycle, was shot in the chest and gravely wounded despite law enforcement on almost every corner in this neighborhood. >> it's very tragic that trayvon martin lost his life and we are sorry for his parents. we're sorry for his brother and all of his relatives and friends, but in chicago, this happens on a consistent basis every single day. these young guys are dealing with death. everyone of them have had friends, family members that have died, and the attention aawarenesawareness is not there. it needs to be because that's the only way we're going to solve this issue, solve this problem. >> reporter: pastor cory brooks is the founder of this church on the south side. he wants outrage over trayvon's verdict to focus on the out of
control violence in chicago where murders topped 500 last year and the grim reaper's toll touches every family. >> he was like literally on this curve, right here. i didn't see a news camera at all. >> reporter: how many of you know someone who was shot or killed here? >> all of us. we all know the same people. >> how old were they? >> all ages. 19, 20. >> excuse me. >> you have r.a.p., and who is that? >> that's my little brother. >> he was shot? >> yeah. he was shot one time in the chest. he died. this right here is my friend tony. he he got killed right here. >> does that bother you when trayvon gets a lot of attention when you have all these people on your body? >> it's an incident occurred and it happened. it happens every day in chicago, though, so i feel like he's just getting a little too much
attention for me. >> my son got killed here. >> your son. >> he didn't make the news. >> what do you think of that? >> what can you say? why? i mean, you know why. black and white. that's what's up with that. >> if your son was white, he would have gotten more attention? >> yeah. a white kid getting killed on 61st street? yeah, it would have gotten a lot of attention. >> reporter: the belief that trayvon was profiled by george zimmerman because he was black has fueled calls for federal hate crimes charges. pastor brooks is planning his own march named let us live this next saturday to bring attention to what he calls a human rights crisis in the windy city. his low go transposes faces of chicago's victims over trayvon's profile. >> how do you give these folks hope? >> we've got to believe, first of all, and we've got to keep working. a lot of times the reason why they don't have any hope is they don't have anyone who is showing them that they care. i think if you show people you care and you work like you care,
then ultimately love is going to win out and hope is going to win out, but we just gotta keep doing it. we can't let up. >> reporter: the streets so deadly, they go by names of bucket of blood and death row. tonight here on the south side of chicago, a 6-year-old girl was shot and gravely wounded during a fire fight between gang members. it's part of the violence that goes unchecked here. geraldo, back to you. > >> geraldo: craig, thanks. continuing with rod wheeler, former dc homicide detective, ted williams, former cop, lawyer, and fox news contributor and niger innis of the congress of racial equality. all right, gentlemen. what about the federal hate crimes charges? what about what you just saw from craig's report in chicago? rod, you first. >> well, i think this should be looked at from a federal perspective in terms of hate crimes. i'm not sure, though, if it's enough to get that, but i will say this much, geraldo. if the president is watching right now and members of congress including our republicans and democrats, if
they really want to have an effect on what we just saw, create jobs for people. i mean, look. i was out there in the streets just today with a group of young african-american men, and all i continued to hear was we need jobs. create jobs for people. let's balance our criminal justice system, give people the education they need to make the money they need to make, and you will see a difference in the crime rate in all communities, not just in the african-american communities. >> geraldo: ted, how about it? your final thought. >> craig, you did a wonderful story. the story, if in some kind of way, geraldo, you can get this story to the president of the united states, i think you should. craig did an excellent job. did you see he that understanding were girl, that young child who was giving an interview by craig? look. the bottom line is when you kill a snake, you go to the head. the president of the united states of america needs to get more engaged. i'm most happy that he spoke out about trayvon. when you've got death like this going on in chicago daily, 40
some people killed in a night, a 6-year-old child hurt, somebody has got to get involved, and it's got to come from the top. it has to come from the president of the united states. >> geraldo: niger, your final thoughts. >> i can't add to what these gentlemen said except say amen. they're dead o on target. if i were to add anything, i would say we also have to examine what i call the entertainment industrial complex and the hip hop industry and its projection of young black men and the images of who young black men are. >> agreed. >> they are creating negative role models for young black men that are often in homes where their mama is out working two and three jobs. the father might not be around, so they turn on bet. they turn on mtv. they find negative role models. we have to be honest about this crisis that exists in our communities. >> geraldo: i want to thank you all. i wish we had all night to talk
about it. niger, rod, ted, thanks so much. let's shift gears. up next, how did an unarmed cooperating witness with information linking the boston bombers to an earlier triple drug homicide, how did this witness get killed while in fbi custody? that's next. you're not made of money, so don't overpay for at insurance. geico, you're not made of money, see how much you could save.
>> geraldo: the current outrage concerning rolling stone's treatment of boston bombing suspect and the police photographer releasing pictures showing the real dzhokhar tsarnaev as he looked all shot up when are verdicting to the authorities is masking a far bigger controversy. our outrage should be directed at the fbi and the justice department for failing to come clean on how this cooperating unarmed witness with vital information aboutd boston bombers was shot dead as he was being questioned by the f.b.i. the mysterious developments in the investigation into the boston marathon terror attack. the fbi now reports a young man with possible ties to the bombing is now dead, and our station in boston, fox 25, is reporting that the young man was about to confess to a different string of murders. >> that unsolved triple murder in waltham, that took place on the tenth anniversary of september 11th. it turns out the man shot and
killed in orlando was a suspect in the waltham case. >> reporter: the man killed during his fbi interrogation in orlando was linking the boston marathon bombers to the ritual triple homicide of three low level dope dealers who happened all to be jewish. on 9/11/2011. at least one of the victims had been a close friend of tamerlan tsarnaev, the dead boston marathon bomber. the three druggies were found in an apartment in suburban boston with their throats cut and marijuana sprinkled on their corpses. drugs and money were left scattered everywhere, ruling out robbery as a most of. forensic evidence taken from the scene later linked tamerlan tsarnaev to the triple murder. the witness later killed by the fbi had vital information about that link. here is that witness's widow. >> there's never was mentioned anything about murder. >> it was tuesday, may 21st,
2013 when the 27-year-old friend of tamerlan tsarnaev, a fellow chechnyan immigrant was gunned down by fbi special agents as he was being ininterrogated at an apartment complex near orlando university. >> he has been interviewed many times before that last one. he had been coming to their office, very friendly, very open. >> the fbi agents told me don't be surprised if the next day or like the following week he's going to have to talk to fbi again. they said we just want to close this case. we just want to make sure you're clear. >> reporter: since he was an unarmed cooperating witness who had spoken with the fbi on several previous occasions, why was he killed? >> it seems like such a quiet guy. >> the guy never had parties. never had people over. you know what i'm saying? he just cleaned his car and minded his own business. >> can you think of any action that would have prompted any
kind of a shooting incident? >> no. there's no way. i know this guy for sure. he only wanted to towk t talk tm so they would leave him alone. >> reporter: his father thinks the fbi targeted him to keep his son quiet. the victim's grieving widow has no idea why they killed her husband. >> they mentioned to him that would be his last interview, they're not going to interview him any more. we want to cancel the case and your name is going to be cleared. you're not going to be involved in anything. they did not have a connection with him and the brothers because he hasn't been in boston for almost two years. >> reporter: so why was the seemingly cooperative witness killed? was it really self defense? immediately following the shooting, the fbi put out a statement saying he initiated a violent could no confrontation h an fbi agent sustained non-life threatening injuries, but they've not provided any other details. those close to the fbi say the suspect was in the process of documenting his own role in the 2011 waltham triple murder when
all hell broke loose. as fox 25's bob ward reported one week after his death. >> i'm told the agent looked up to dto see him waving in his direction what was described to me as what appeared to be a bonzai ceremonial sword. the boston fbi agent, fearing for his life, drew his weapon and killed the suspect. >> reporter: later came stunning word from the fbi that the suspect had no weapon at all. >> we have confirmed through senior sources within the fbi that the suspect was indeed unarmed when he was shot seven times, once in the head, what appears to be even in the back of the head. >> reporter: so again, why was the unarmed suspect killed, and is it tied to the fact that u.s. and local authorities totally dropped the ball in this case? happen hahaphazardly investigata triple homicide, failing to connect the crime to a man russians warned us was a muslim extremist, and yet failing to act until after four innocents in the bombing were killed and the marathon was forever scarred
by the explosions heard around the world. >> when i hear them, and i hear from our own people what a game-changer this is in information sharing, unfortunately i think that there might have been a different result. >> geraldo: might have been a different result. the well known radio host howie carr joins us from boston. is there a cover up going on here by the fbi? >> i'm not sure, geraldo. i think, you know, you can't rule anything out with the fbi but on the other hand, this guy is not exactly an angel. he had a record of at least two violent previous attacks. he was planning on going back to russia. he had come over here, another one of these asylum cases where he claimed he was being persecuted, yet his father is an
official in the government over there in doin dagast an or chechnya. he was a suspect in a triple homicide up here in massachusetts. i don't think the fbi really had any reason to kill the guy. >> what about if he had information that should have been investigated and revealed that it was ignored or was haphazarly probed? >> well, i don't think anybody doubts that they could have done a little more with this triple homicide on the tenth anniversary of 9/11 in waltham, massachusetts of these low-level drug dealers. on the other hand, geraldo, the fact is that tamerlan was the best friend of one of these guys. they worked out together in the gym, and he wouldn't have been the logical first person you would suspect of this. i mean, you know, hindsight is 20/20. the fact that tamerlan, the dead terrorist, the one that was run over by his brother, he didn't
go to the funeral or any of that sort of thing for his best friend, and after the murder, he never showed up at the gym where he and the dead drug dealer worked out. >> geraldo: okay. howie hold it there. we'll come right back [ shapiro ] at legalzoom, you can take care of virtually all your imptant legal matters in just minutes. protect youramily... and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. [ babies crying ] surprise -- your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise -- your car needs a new transmission. [ coyote howls ]
that are interrogatorying him. when we look at the apt of shots fired by the each officer. it's not a significant amount of shots. >> but he is unarmed. >> let me throw this bit out here so that more people can understand this. okay. >> imminent threat equals and somebody is moving to a tactical advantage, that equals a good shoot. it does not matter if there's armed. if there's an ip nent threat when you go in and -- >> jonathan, they talked to him for eight hours and talked to him several times before, you how is it an imminent threat when he is unarmed. >> everything that you said to describe him, sets the tone for the imminent threat. if i talk to you and you dart to the other side of the room, i cannot shoot you he legally. if you run out and grab a knife and come at me, that's a good shoot. in this case, all the things that you all have covered that lead up to that, pose an imminent threat going in.
>> the fact that in the fbi agent's mind that he was crazy enough to do something stoopd? >> right, and then apparently according to a lot of the leaks he had just admitted to taking part in a triple homicide. now, if anything they did that was, that i could second guess and at all, and i do not like the second guess the guys that are on the ground, is that he should have been. you are correct with that. if they are going to question him for eight hours, he should have been downtown in the offices being questioned. >> i'm sorry, i don't buy it. howie, i'm sorry, i've around a lot of cases. guys being interrogatoried several times, and now he is fro the. hing at the mouth and they shoot him dead, this is not going to lead to conspiracy theories. >> beyond, his friends say he was about to be cleared and the state police said he just
confessed to the triple homicide. he was trying to get out of the country. he was not planning on sticking around here. he was a friend of a no one terrorist, tamerlan who has been linked to 7 murders in the boston area. i mean, you know, my -- my understanding is that, perhaps the fbi agent was alone with him in one of the rooms in the apartment, maybe -- i'm not an expert on police procedure, maybe there should have been two or three cops in the room with him, if he was going to -- if he was going to be questioned at his apartment. i heard that he had asked everyone to take off their shoes. so, you know, they -- i don't know that they felt that they were -- >> here is my take. >> in full control. >> it's been two months since ibrahim was shot dead in his
apartment, by an agent, that was questioning him about the boston bombing suspects and the triple murder that were killed by cutting the throat, and that was designed to send a message, why hasn't the fbi explained how it happened, that an unarmed witness came to be shot, 7 times and once apparently in the back of the head. what did he tell them about tamerlan, the older brother's connection to radical muslim extremist, could a more vigorous investigation of the crimes preven
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