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tv   Greta Van Susteren  FOX News  October 22, 2013 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT

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something you want to see. a life that matters. that's it for "special report," fair, balanced and unafraid. greta goes "on the record" right now. you're not going to believe it. the irs just did it to you again. plus president obama promised it would be as easy as online shopping. >> nobody is madder than me about the fact that the web site isn't working as well as it should. just visit healthcare.gov and there you can compare insurance plans side by side the same way you would shop for a plane ticket on kayak or tv on amazon. >> the site was very easy to use and the customer service representatives were patient and helpful. >> once i was on the site it was pretty easy for me to compare plans. >> the web site that's supposed to make it easy to apply for and easy to purchase insurance is not working the way it should for. >> everybody the web site has not performed up to the president's expectations or anyone's expectations.
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>> it's clear to me that this isn't going to work. >> the obama care web site now being called a lot of things but easy? that's not one of them. karl rove joins us. nice to see you, carl. >> nice to see you, greta. >> boy, i will tell you, quite interesting in washington in the last 24 to 48 hours. jay carney won't tell the press corps when the white house knew that had hadn't been beta tested. won't give out much information. keeps saying talk to hhs secretary sebelius or hhs. your thoughts? >> i thought it was a spectacular press briefing by jay carney. we had some frank admissions. they never expected the volume that they got on the web site. really, okay. so, thank you for now stating the obvious. they should have expected the volume and they obviously had a lot of bugs because between the first weaning and the second week there is apparently an 88% decline in the volume which i have talked to some computer experts say indicates to them particularly since the white house and since the administration took the web site down for a period of
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time that there was problems in the code that were causing in essence when you logged on and you filled out an application there was some part of the software that caused the system to ping itself to create a quote unique visitor when there was no unique visitor there. i loved it he said i'm not aware of the testing. you would think that the white house press spokesman would have been aware when it was tested, how it was tested, what the rules of those tests were. but, apparently if he is to be believed, one of two things is true, either they said we are not going to let the press spokesman at the white house know about the results of the testing because we don't want to be embarrassed or nobody else at the white house is aware of what was tested or when it was tested. >> wouldn't you have thought that they would have been concerned in monitoring the testing more than anyone else? everyone is acting like this is so surprising that this has gone awry. we never expected. this and, everyone is jumping on it it. but who didn't expect -- who really thought our federal government could do this? really? did you really think that the federal government could
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put this together? it it had three years to do it, granted. did you really think it was going to be smooth? >> well, look, they had three and a half years to do it and maybe the fact that the administration has proven to be incompetent in putting up this web site should give us a little bit of qualms about turning over control of one sixth of our economy. that's what healthcare represents to this same crowd. look, they just don't get it they are completely out of touch. carney's news conference or press briefing demonstrated if he represents the white house view, then they're out in la la land. he said, you know, i just want to reaffirm. this is going to cut the deficit. as the congressional budget office said. wait a minute. the congressional budget office says that only because they are borrowing half a trillion dollars from medicare which is going broke and doesn't have any money to lend. and the cbo by its scoring rules can't count that as what it is, when which is an expenditure. they have to count it as income to the specific program. but nobody, nobody really believes this thing is going to cut the deficit.
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he said in his press conference today his press briefing oh this is restrained health expenditures the last three years. every economist i know of has said the principle reason for the restraint in the overall amount of money being spent on healthcare in america is the lousy economy. and then finally i loved it at the end he said there was no evidence, even in today's report, that this is causing an increase in part-time employment. he didn't even read the report. the employment, the jobs report said there was an increase in the amount of people who were working part time for economic reasons. we know that since the beginning of the year through the end of july 148,000 people a month have lost jobs who are working 30 to 34 hours a week. and 119,000 people have gotten jobs making 25 to 29 hours a week. keeping them under the obama care limit. so we have got plenty of evidence in this guy standing up there in front of the white house press corps is to clueless that he thinks this is having no impact on part-time employment. >> well, there is a lot of
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things sort of clueless, even if you look at the numbers only 12% according to the cbs survey say the enrollment process is going well. that means people are not particularly happy in the 12%. you have got the situation ordinarily we have a hard time doing things if we don't have enough time or we don't have enough money. in this instance i said three years, you say three and a half years. i take your math tonget and they had over $600 million. frankly, i would like to know where did the 600 million go? i would like it know about the contracts because clearly whoever they contracted with didn't do the right job and, you know, we can blame it -- enough blame going around, but what's going on with that? >> and will anybody be held response for a no source contract that clearly was botched. who was in charge of the oversight? what kind of reports were made to the white house? when did the president know that this was a problem? or did they ever know that it was a problem? maybe they never knew. >> according to jay carney we are not going to get that answer from the white house. they are deferring -- they tell us to get that answer
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from hhs which it will be interesting to see whether secretary sebelius is made sort of a sacrificial lamb or legitimate lamb in this as things unroll. >> yeah. look, there there are two other things going on we ought to be watching. one is whether the administration is going to hit this target of 7 million people. their goal was register 7 million people by the end of the enrollment period at the end of march. they anticipated having roughly half a million this month and then another million and a half during november in the first two weeks of december. unclear where they are. but, we saw on monday in the rose garden, we had the first sign up in delaware. that first sign up was last wednesday. so they signed up somebody in delaware. it took them only from monday to monday to the following wednesday. so, you know it, only took them over two weeks to do that. so, you know, we have an expectation they are not going to meet their targets.
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the other thing that we're watching and excuse me that we are not watching that's being obscured by this is 14 million americans are individual policy holders. that is to say they are not covered by their business or they are in a small business and they pay for their insurance directly. they have an individual policy. because affordable care act has some expensive mandates and rules in it, a lot of companies are beginning to dump most of their individual policy coverage forcing those people into the exchanges. florida blues, they are dropping 80% of their people. 300,000 policy holders just got notices. california kaiser 50% of their people are losing their coverage. 160,000. california blue shield, 60%. 1,189,000. philadelphia blue shield, 45%, pittsburgh the high mark insurance, mostly in western p.a. losing 20% -- dropping 20% of their coverage. once we get a final count on, this it is clearly going to be in the several millions of people. now, remember, they started out saying in 2010,
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3 million people would lose their employer-provided coverage as a result of the affordable care act. that number was updated in march by the congressional budget office to 8 billion. the actuaries at the center for medicaid and medicare at the department of health and human services say it's going to be 14 million. we are now starting to see an ever increasing number of people losing their coverage. that's going to have real consequences for the cost of this program and for the people's happiness with it. >> all right. well, that's the big picture. the program, sort of the short run is this enrollment in this web site. and i don't know how the president sort of puns to get out of this. bob beckel of the 5 suggested they put it on hold for six months while they sort of fix these problems. according to bob, his word, is he got a call from the white house actually bludgeoned him over suggestion that they put it on hold for six months so they can fix these things. they are digging their heels in deep. >> they're digging in deeper. look, the president gave a waiver to employers by
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waiving the employer mandate for the 2014, it goes into effect january 1st of 2015. that's the requirement that employers provide coverage or pay a $2,000 person fine. now, that is saving corporations $15 billion in fines according to the cbo estimate. the president will not waive the individual requirement which means that there will be $12 billion taken out of the pockets of individual americans. it will happen in 2015 when they pay their taxes. i think the reason the president waived the employers was employers would start making those decisions next year to dump coverage for their employees rather than pay the fine. whereas the fine to be paid by individuals doesn't show up until after the 2014 elections when you go to file your 2015 tax returns. >> carl, thank you. got to go. thank you, karl. >> you bet. thank you. >> all right. if you thought you could not get more disgusted with the irs. well then think again. this next story is absolutely insane. so insane that even president obama may think twice about letting the irs be part of obama care. the latest irs bombshell
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straight ahead. also, there is more heat on obama care tonight. house republicans now demanding answers about the botched web site. and they are going straight to the white house's top techies to get them. congressman tray gowdy is here to talk about that and you can hash it out for us. who should answer for the obama care web site disaster the technicians or the techs. tweet it on #greta. before they sat down, one more time, just for themselves. before the last grandchild. before the first grandchild. smile. before katie, debbie, kevin and brad... there was a connection that started it all and made the future the wonderful thing it turned out to be...
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>> i don't know what you think insane. it doesn't stop. you won't believe what the irs did this time and to make matters worse to think president obama made put irs in charge of obama care subsidies and penalties. byron york is here with the latist on the irs. >> called refundable tax credit and really antipoverty program. and what it is people of lower income, if they are working, and paying taxes, the irs essentially gives them a refund bigger than the tax they owe. so they owe $1,000 in taxes, they get a $5,000 refund, that's a $4,000 payment to this person. >> they get sent a check to this person. exactly lump sum every year. >> that's program? >> yeah. you have to qualify for this. right? you can't just get it. and what the irs has discovered is that in the past 10 years they have spent 132 billion, not million, billion dollars in improper earned income tax credit.
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>> people should it testify have had it. >> never have gotten them. they have found out that anywhere between 20, 23, 28, 30% in any given year are absolutely improper payments to people who didn't deserve to get them. and the bigger they are, apparently the harder they are to catch they studied specifically refunds in the $5,000 range which is pretty big for those. they studied 60,000 of those and discovered that 10,400 of them were improper, and that was just in the year of 2009. >> and last understand 13 billion was the overpayment last year estimated. that's his last year 13 billion. >> exactly. 132 billion in 10 years it's about 13 billion a year and they're not getting any better. >> why does it take 10 years? it's bad enough they do this for one year. why does it take 10 years for someone to come in and tell these block heads that they are essentially giving away american taxpayer money? >> first of all, president obama signed executive order
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in 2009 directing the irs to take better control of this. this study, inspector general report was as a result of that executive order. but, the kicker in all of this is they are coming out and saying they are not really going to make it much better. i'm going to quote from this report. the irs is up likely to achieve any significant reduction in earned income tax credit improper payments. that is they say because they don't want to discourage people who do legitimately qualify for those payments from getting them. so they're basically saying there is a huge amount of money going out improperly and, sorry, we are not going to do anything about it. >> and this is the group, the irs that's going to be in charge of the penalties and the subsidies under obama care? >> and this is particularly relevant story with obama care because the irs will determine who is eligible for subsidies under obama care. and also they will enforce the penalties. you know, they are not going to make you pay a penalty, write them a check. what they will do is take it out of your tax refund about
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70, 75% of americans get a tax refund every year. the irs is going to be handling all of this about whether people are eligible for subsidies and whether they have to pay penalties. and this is just a terrible record for an organization that's going to have that responsibility. viewers if this really enrages you, this is a time to write your members of congress. senators, make phone calls. start tomorrow about the irs doing. this the irs doesn't care. the irs is going to continue to do. this byron thank you. >> thank you. >> coming up, what last minute change to the obama administration made to the healthcare web site. why did they do it? and did it add to the chaos. congressman trey gowdy is here next. former florida governor jeb bush offering president obama some surprising advice. will it work? president bush's helpful hints coming up. bold has a huge imagination. a playground of innovation, color, and design. showing up where we least expect it.
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listen to this one. the member of congress comparing the tea party to kkk. taking heat for latest fundraising detail it. burning cross used as t in tea party. in the caption now you know what the t stands for. calling on democrats to condemn the grayson email. in a statement grayson defending the email saying the tea party is long racist and terms imagery to refer to african-americans and president obama. so now you be the judge. is congressman grayson off his rocker or is this just free speech and political fundraising? go to gretawire.com and vote in our poll. coming up, the obama administration demanding last minute change to the web site did. it add to the mess? treyus gowdy is here next. to be this awesome. and you...rent from national.
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this is a fight that's been absolutely built by the government. not built by private industry for the consumer. >> we're well into a tech search to fix the problem. >> nobody knows how long it will take to fix which tells you the scope of the problem. >> the administration before the launch days before tested a key part of the web site with a few hundred people and the system crashed. was anyone in the white house informed at that time, days before the launch that this key test had failed? >> ed, first of all, just let me make clear that we are expecting that by the end of the month's enrollment period that millions of americans will have enrolled to get affordable health insurance. >> the technical problems piling up and still the obama administration demanding a last-second change. well, what was the change? why did they do it? and did it make matters worse? congressman trey gowdy on the house oversight committee. he joins us. nice to see you, sir. >> good to see you, greta. >> congressman, what was the last-minute change and why does it even matter? >> well, the last-minute change was they don't want
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your viewers to know what the real cost would be. they want you to get into the system, have the subsidy apply so you never see what the actual cost is. and why does it matter? part of that answer is a pretty complicated technological explanation which i am wholly unqualified to give. but, the human nature part of it i can explain pretty well. greta, i don't know if you have ever been in a jewelry store that doesn't have their prices on the jewelry, it's usually not because the product is too cheap that they're embarrassed to put the price tag on it, it's because you would be shocked to know what it costs. they want you to know it, try it on and envision yourself wearing it for the rest of your life and then they are going to break the bad news to you. they made a calculated decision that you would only see the cost after the subsidy applied. now, subsidy is just a fancy word for other people's money. i mean, don't you -- i mean, i think my fellow americans would want to know what the real cost of health insurance is. even if they are getting a
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subsidy. they would want to know this is what the product would cost if there were not a subsidy. >> i don't know if i agree with you. when i see cost, i usually want to know what it cost me. and i appreciate sort of the largess of other americans if i were getting a subsidy. but when i think of cost, i don't think of like sort of the grand cost, i think what does it cost me? >> well, greta, i have spent enough time around you, i don't think you are being mayor with yourself. you are a very good person and i think you would want to know what someone else was having to pay to subsidize whether it's a car, a computer, or health insurance. if we're going to convince our fellow citizens that we have a crisis with respect to it access and cost of health insurance, how you can possibly do that if they don't have any idea what the real cost is? i think by and large people are not selfish enough to only want to know how does this impact me? >> all right. here is the thing that i don't understand. they are so busy about the
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sort of the finessing or othe polishing of the final product. that's the least of their problems. you know, you would think that one of the questions it at the last minute wouldn't be, you know, let's yank the cost and just show them the product. i would think the last question or i think the more relevant question is does this thing work? and like that, i mean, i don't get like was anyone not asking that question? >> well, you know they tested it. they tested it days before it launched on october the 1st. and it was an unmitigated disaster. so, you know, greta, i come back to this kind of simple thought. this was not a pop quiz the monday after spring break. it was sprung on us. we had $500 million in three years to prepare for october the 1st, 2013. we knew that date was coming. and for political reasons, they did not want to admit that there were any issues. there were implementation issues when they tested it days before the initial launch. but for political reasons, they didn't want to concede that they just rather deal with the aftermath.
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they would rather explain why it's not working than postpone it because, after all, that's what the republicans asked is for a postpone: but this is the most predictable crisis in a long time. >> well, it certainly is a mess. congressman, thank you, sir. >> yes, ma'am. >> coming up, sean hannity is here. he wanted to find out what is really going on inside the obama care call center seane phone and called. in sean is here next. plus, you are not going to like this. news from amazon.com that could impact your holiday shopping. that's coming up. woman: everyone in the nicu -- all the nurses wanted to watch him when he was there 118 days. everything that you thought was important to you changes in light of having a child that needs you every moment.
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get ready to speedway your way through the news. first to capitol hill. planning to introduce legislation that would delay the obama care penalty for people who don't buy health insurance. the bill would delay the fine until healthcare.gov is fully working. this would be a companion to senator marco rubio's bill. also in washington. republican senator lindsey graham taking on president obama. senator graham blocking $60 million in u.s. aid to
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egypt. he says he would put a hold on the funds until he sees egypt moving toward democracy. earlier this month the obama administration suspended most aid to egypt but pledged to maintain some assistance but that appears now to be blocked. now to the latest jobs report. the economy adding 148,000 jobs since september. a steep drop from the jobs gains in august. and october numbers, well they may be even worse thanks to temporary layoffs during the shutdown. now to san francisco, apple unveiling the newist ipad the new 9.7-inch tablet is called ipad air. it weighs 1 pound 8% lighter than the older model and 28% thinner. the tablet has apple's faster a 7 chip. the ipads will be available april first. from apple to amazon. amazon.com raising free shipping minimum order size. you will now have respond $35 instead of $25. amazon says the first
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increase in more than a decade. of course, just comes in time for holiday shopping season. that's tonight's speed read. now to president obama's so-called solution to the web site mess. just pick up the phone and dial up obama care. well, sean hannity taking that challenge and putting the obama care hotline to the test. take a look at how that call went. >> 911, how may i help you? >> yeah, high is, it maryland you? are on the radio. you are on with sean hannity on the sean hannity radio. eileen is it? hello? >> no, sir. i'm the healthcare marketplace call center. >> yeah. that's ohio wanted to call but i want to make sure you are on the radio. is that okay with you? you have to say yes if you want to be on. >> it's okay. yes, sir. >> are a lot of people calling because they are having trouble? i have been interesting trouble getting on the web site. >> right now, from what i heard our system is down for like the next 42 hours. no one is able to get in, but if they call us we can
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help them fill out an application as long as they went online to create an account first. >> that's the point i can't get online to create the account so how why be able to create the account if the web site is down for the next 42 hours. >> you will have to wait until those 42 hours is up. >> how come it's so hard to get on this web site though? >> everyone is trying to get in at one time and we're having a lot of glitches in the system. >> a lot of glitches in the system did. they tell you to tell us that? >> we have a script for that. >> so people are reporting to you the real deal? >> yes, sir, they are. >> yeah. have you ever caught anybody that really likes it yet? >> no, not really. >> my friend and colleague sean hannity joins us. nice to see you, sean. >> nice to see you, greta. congrats on the new hour. >> congratulations on your new hour. >> thank you. >> i like this one. painfully honest. she said -- >> -- she was great. >> yeah. she was great.
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she even said they had a script. >> so i called three times now. okay? and, you know, look, she said wait 42 hours. and then she makes a statement i said well, has anybody liked it? and she said. no the ironic part of this, greta, is the president gave out this number yesterday to help people and, yet, the operators are then directed to send you back to the web site that isn't working in the first place. i mean, you can even make this up it's so crazy at this time. so, they say, all right, call the 800 number. it took me an hour today to get an answer. i got to the point where a lady wouldn't answer any questions. got a supervisor and then the supervisor was heard in the background saying shut him down. meaning me, for asking the questions. so i don't know what to make of it. >> well, i actually tried to do it in d.c. and actually the one good thing we have really good hold music. i must admit. we have great hold music. i don't know how your hold music is but we have particularly good. i actually did like it. i talked to very nice man. but when i identified myself to him, all of a sudden i
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got shuffled off to the p.r. people. they wouldn't let me go through the system and i didn't want to lie to the person. i got shuffled off to the p.r.s because they were afraid i was trying to do something theatrical. >> they ended up saying they would call me back in 48 hours and i'm not going to hold my breath. i actually suspect and this is total con spur toler on my part. i totally expect after the two calls yesterday that they probably sent out a don't take any calls from hannity memo. so the one girl was very nervous when i got her on the library today. the first one hung up on me. the second lady was very nervous then she passed me off to the supervisor. then the supervisor was literally over her shoulders reading the instructions to this very nice woman again. but what's the point of having the toll free telephone number, if the toll free telephone number is going to tell you to go back to the web site where the web site doesn't work. the worst part, greta, we spent $634 million. now i had an i.t. tech
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expert on my radio show yesterday who literally said he would be embarrassed to take more than a million dollars and he could build a far more efficient system, if you will. >> well, the one person i did get through to, i got the voice mail is i left a voice message for the person to call me. this is someone who has called someone assist me with the web site. and the irony is the funny part about it is i didn't get a return call. i did get one today. the woman works at a place where a health place and so she left a message that she was calling for me. and so comes to the fox -- i suspect that the fox receptionist thinks that i have this particular health problem when i was just trying to get information. i totally understand why she was doing it she was nice enough to call back, but now it sounds like i have this other health problem to the receptionist here. >> they might be -- look, remember, everything sells recorded anyway, greta. they will probably want your medical records anyway on
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top of everything. look, there is a really sad side to this, and that is and it's a point that as a conservative i have tried to make for a long time. there are people in this country that have been conditioned to believe that the government is the answer to all their problems. now, we're in a situation where we have $90 trillion in unfunded liability, 17 trillion in new obama debt. 17 trillion is his. and we have got more people on food stamps than ever before. we have added this new entitlement. social security is going broke, medicare is going broke. we have got to ask the question. why do people have so much faith in the government to be their answer? now, for a lot of people that are watching your program tonight, they think social security will be there for them. they are going to raise the eligibility age. they will probably means test it it people that put their faith, hope, and trust in the government, they are really believing in it. and i think in the end when 45 out of 50 states are reporting higher premiums for people, and on average,
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according to forbes it's going to be 99% premium increase for men. 62% premium increase for women, i -- there is there there is real problems here thinking that the government is going to solve this, and i think we are only beginning to seat tip of the iceberg here. >> speaking of tip of the iceberg. our show is only the tip of the iceberg here. 10:00 p.m. senator rand paul. >> you didn't tell me how great this slot was. i'm loving your old slot. >> it is fun. the audience is great. i actually -- i have some great friends at the 10:00 audience i hope they join us at':00. >> i'm loving you at 7:00. is worked out great for me and my family. congrats on your new spot i watch every night. i love watching it and congratulations on all your success. >> all right. tell me one thing though, what are you going to ask senator rand paul tonight? >> well, we are going to talk about the disaster of the rollout. we will play a little bit of that interview the phone calls that i have been making. and is he proposing a great constitutional amendment
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which says that any law congress passes they have got to be subject to the same law. i love that idea. so, and that's all tonight at 10:00 eastern. >> and indeed. 10:00 eastern. let me repeat. don't forget to watch hannity tonight 10:00 p.m. eastern. anyway. nice to see you, sean, thank you. >> all right, greta. thank you. straight ahead, florida former governor jeb bush playing match maker. you have to hear his ad vice for john boehner and president obama. that's coming up. last week, this month, and even next year. for seeing your business's cash flow like never before, introducing cash flow insight powered by pnc cfo. a suite of online tools that lets you turn insight into action.
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know it's time to show you what we are watching. we put together the best videos tonight. they are fantastic. the son finally passing math and getting an f last time around. >> you got -- >> talk about a proud parent. and then there is this not so proud father.
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he lip synced his daughter's nonstop' tantrum. [screaming] >> the parents of the screaming child say she is a good kid. she was having a rather rough day. and in this dolly parton like you have never seen her before. ♪ i know i'm short. i know she is tall ♪ i guess you could call us biggie small ♪ our songs are different ♪ mine is more fun ♪ like coming around the mountain when she comes he haw. >> no offense dolly maybe you should stick to singing country songs. coming up, what went wrong in the inside scoop from the programmers who built the obama care web site? stay tuned. you don't want to miss this one. i have low testosterone. there, i said it. see, i knew testosterone could affect sex drive,
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of treated men had their t levels restored to normal. talk to your doctor about all your symptoms. get the blood tests. change your number. turn it up. androgel 1.62%. get the blood tests. change your number. turn it up. does it end after you've expanded your business?? after your company's gone public? and the capital's been invested? or when your company's bought another? is it over after you've given back? you never stop achieving. that's why, at barclays, our ambition is to always realize yours. okay, let's go off the record for a second. all seen the dud known as obama care web site. so bad that the president and the web site is are
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being lamb bassed by many of president obama's bff's. nancy pelosi and "new york times." it's it really bad if his bff's are giving him hell, but is the trouble with the enrollment web site just the tip of the iceberg? anybody looked below the surface? part of obama care is an income verification requirement that determines who should get a subsidy. that's where the money is paid by the taxpayers and we want to make sure subsidies go to the entitled. not get film flamed by those who should not get subsidies that would be a fraud. with the system in chaos that could be massive. how is the eligibility for subsidy determined checked? you guessed it. one of those obama administration software programs there is a problem. their enrollment web site which they had had three and a half years to set up is absolute nightmare. ask yourself, if the obama administration cannot get a sign up web site off the ground how can they create an honest income
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verification so we don't have massive fraud do you think they can or brace ourselves for massive taxpayer relationship off. -- rip off. that is my off the record comment tonight. if you have an issue you think i can take off the record go to gretawire.com and tell us about it. now to a political partnership put to the test. new book president bush vice president cheney administration. correspondent peter baker is the author of days of fire, bush and cheney in the white house. he joins us. nice to see you, peter. >> thanks for having me. >> let me tell you first what i love about the book. is that i covered this stuff and there is so much i learned with the book. it's unbelievable. the depth of the reporting is absolutely magnificent. let me ask you. describe the relationship when they first got together and at the end of the first term and then when they walked out of the white house. >> that's really interesting thing about this and one of the reasons i wanted to go back and do this book because in fact i think we misunderstood or common mittology misunderstood what
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this partnership was all about. was vice president cheney influential in the beginning, he yes, he was. was he a puppet master no he wasn't. that's a caricature. he was important. the president relied on him. he was a seasoned veteran. he understood how power and washington worked. as things moved along by the second term president bush began moving away and began looking at things differently. he wanted to repair relations with the allies and rethink some the policies on the middle east and so forth. and vice president khan saw that as, you know, moving away from the principles that they had shared in the first term and they began fighting about a lot of issues. and by the time they left office, when they ended up sort of having this confrontation over the scooter libby pardon. >> now i know that they met at the library and you write about that in your book. now, is there any indication that they talk to each other very much. >> i think they have a very proper relationship. an appropriate relationship. they don't talk very often. they are not personal friends? >> what happened? why the change? the president bush evolve and change and vice
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president cheney did not? >> i think that's about right. i think vice president cheney saw his singular mission to prevent another 9/11 and nothing was going to be a higher priority to him than that that stayed pretty constant through the end of his term whereas president bush began trying to adjust to recalibrate, to see where things were going wrong, so if he couldn't find different ways of doing things. he started closing some the secret prisons that the cia was running. he went to congress on surveillance and myrtle tribunals. he decided to give condoleezza rice a chance to try the middle east things. those are things to vice president cheney were objectionable. president bush wanted to try a different way. how painful was it no weapons of mass destruction in iraq how painful was it? >> sort of a daunting realization. the reporting of this and we interviewed about 275 people including vice president cheney and lots of others. i never found of sort of an ah-ha moment a moment where they said boy it didn't exist. daunting revelation that clearly impacted the relationship. i think president bush began as iraq went bad, as the
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weapons turned out not to be there to begin rethinking where they were going and trying to find ways of adjust not guilty second term. >> it seems in reading your books that the compassion conservatism that he ran on in 2000, that's that's where he ended up back at the end. >> he tried to return karen hughes talks about that the thing that really bothered her how they had gotten away from the come passionate conservatism. if you take iraq off the table what would his legacy be pet far which saved millions of people from aides in africa. medicare part d. saved people from prescription drugs. education no, child left behind. all these things got lost in the back wash of iraq. immigration might have happened had he had a different political environment in the second term. >> the book is absolutely extraordinary. i loved reading it and on sail now? >> today is publication day. >> get it on amazon as well. >> thank you, peter, it's a great book. >> appreciate it. red flags, did the obama
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administration ignore the red flags? you will have to hear what the web site builders have to say about the launch. this is the quicksilver cash back card from capital one.
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joining us with that story jack. >> nice to to see you, too. >> what were the red flags. >> the programmers we spoke to figure out if you want to figure out how well a three course meal is you go to the kitchen. how hard was this to cook? and they said look, we had a couple years to do. this some as far back as a year, year and a half ago and they said look, we had really tight time pressures here. >> three and a half years? >> yeah, going back, one that we spoke to went back a year and a half when he was there when he initially worked on it and he said look, you know, we have all interest to deal with time pressures. we are programmers but this is unusual. you know, we were there working well the sun came up
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at times 10:00 at night. boxes of pizza. red bull in hand sitting there in the conference room with our friends making sure we would get this done on time. october 1 was coming and it wasn't going to change. >> did they tell anybody in the administration we are having problems? >> there was certainly concerns raised among themselves that they had spoken to it each other and said, look, i am having problems with this line of code. software developer say a little piece here that should access this little piece of data. again, when you do this process and you feel rushed it, computers are dumb. they are not like you and me if i misspeak greta goes jack i know what you are trying to say. computers do exactly what you are told. if you put a typo here or a missed command there and you have millions of line of code which it looks like this does. when you try to get it off othe ground there is going to be failures and a while to unfuller that and where it started. >> do the programmers think it's fatal that this cannot be fixed. >> they certainly think it's going to take some time and
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some of the investigators we spoke to. >> what do you mean by time? >> anybody is anybody's guess about how long this is going to take. >> like months or years? it depends. if there are millions of lines of code it could take a while to look under the hood and see what went wrong. a guy 50 years old had some health problems. the errors he was describing to me when he tried to get through income verification he said didn't make any sense and to me he ho is used to do computer programming in my past i didn't really understand it either. so, it's these stories that come up and if there are these different errors that keep cropping up i think the developers have going to have a lot of time ahead of themselves to figure out what went wrong. >> the developers aren't saying this is fatal and we need to start over rather than patch together what we have. >> i think because it's is such a big project. this isn't like putting a blog where you have photos of the family cat that you send around to five people. >> i do that all the time and i find great trouble and sometimes complicated go ahead. >> this is certainly a very complex project and part of
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the president's signature healthcare reform plan looking at the diagrams no trivialial task. talk to this particular piece of information when their looking at this in a vacuum. they didn't have time to think about that. >> did anyone say oh, no problem, we can fix this? >> i think that's a good question because the investigators we spoke to said that a lot of the testing didn't really occur until a few weeks before time. >> which is dumb, isn't it? >> well, it certainly is going to raise some issues for them as they are going to have to try to fix these problems. >> boy if that isn't the dumbest thing i think. jack, thank you. nice to talk to you. >> you as well. >> threw there is new video on gretawire that motorcycle road rage attack in new york city. you remember that scene bikers chasing an suv along the highway and dragging that young father out and beating him. there is brand new video that we can't show you here. we did put it on gretawire.
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we are able to legally do that there. thank you for being with us tonight. see you tomorrow night. 7 p.m. eastern. up next the o'reilly factor. don't forget open threads on gretawire, so go there. have fun. the o'reilly factor is on. tonight. >> it shouldn't be about having heads roll or firing people. >> the problems with obama care continue to mount and now public opinion may be shifting. >> the president says is he bringing in the best and the brightest to solve the problem. why didn't we bring in the best and the brightest in the first place? >> tonight, senator marco rubio puts forth his solution. >> you do have the right to have healthcare and to education and to decent housing. >> the gloves are off as the far left now pushing for complete socialism. we'll spell that out in the talking points memo. >> were -- harmful to all of our children and it's time to remove this kind of stereotyping. >> and the

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