tv The Kelly File FOX News October 23, 2013 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT
i know you're mad out there. thanks for watching. ms. megyn is next. i'm bill o'reillo'reilly. the spin stops here because we are definitely looking out for you. breaking tonight obama care backers are jumping ship. congress may have the votes now to delay this law. this is big. welcome to "the kelly file." i'm megyn kelly. hour by hour tonight we have seen a growing list of top senate democrats who backed this law backing away from the president's troubled health care roll out. we have now learned of at least five democratic senators who are calling for extensions on the enrollment period andle potentially on the mandate, on the penalty you would have to pay if you don't join obama care and the joe manchin of west virginia who is working on a bill to delay the individual
mandate by a year. if these six democrats join the 45 republican senators and a gop-led house on the other chamber of commerce that could represent enough votes and president obama would be faced with a difficult choice. ed henry, the reason that would be is he doesn't want to delay the individual mandate. he doesn't want to delay or extend the enrollment period now but it seems a coup is under way in the chambers of congress this hour. >> the individual mandate is the holy grail of the law. it's how you pay for it by mandating young people especially have to pay to get health insurance. that's what will pay for sick people, people with pre-existing conditions covered for the first time. you delay it for a year and it could bring the law down. there is a flurry of activity
that they can delay the individual mandate by six weeks. the white house says they have just tweaked some of the language but there is no six-week delay to the individual mandate. so that's not true. what is true is the senators, five of those democrats calling for changes in extending the enrollment period, those other five are all up for re-election in 2014. this suggests they are a little bit nervous about defending the law. there is a wall of democratic unity supporting the president's health care law. there is a crack in it tonight. i spoke to top officials at the white house who point out that what's different about what these democrats are saying, they are not calling for the law to be defunded. they are not calling for an over haul. they are saying to tweak the law and make it better. they want it to live. >> that begs the question, if they have the votes to delay the individual mandate -- that's yet to be seen. we know six democrats are saying
they will vote in favor of a change on this. they don't like what they have seep so far. if they've got the votes to delay the individual mandate potentially then the question is what happens to this law? the goodies on the law for the most part kicked in already. now the funding was supposed to kick in in 2014 thanks to the mandate. if they delay the funding mechanism and the goodies keep going out what happens to the law? who pays? does the law implode? what happens? >> it would be damage to the law. you have a republican like marco rubio saying he wants a six-month delay to the individual mandate. the white house has largely dismissed that. they have dismissed ted cruz, all of this as republican opposition. now you have democrats saying, let's tweak this thing maybe. that makes this bipartisan for the first time. some of the opposition. some of the changes. they are not saying to overhaul the law. they are saying to tweak it, change it. it's something the white house doesn't want to do.
that's new pressure on the p president. >> brand new pressure coming from senators like mary landrieu. remember the louisiana purchase which critics said bought her vote in support of the law. she welcome was booted out of office on that vote. that was controversial for all of them to vote for health care in a competitive district. >> states like louisiana, arkansas. these are states that department vote for barack obama in 2008 or 2012. they have their butts on the line. >> we saw the fiery town halls. thank you. we are now hearing similar krps about the law from house democrats. remember one man who helped write the health care law was warning of a train wreck over the plan back in april. >> i just see a huge train wreck coming down. we discussed it many times. i don't see any results yet. what can you do to help all these people around the country wondering what in the world do i
do? >> thanks for that, senator. now you hear senators and house members complaining. mark thiesen was a speech writer under george w. bush and a fellow with the enterprise institute. now it's bipartisan. something will change. if the president signs it. the pressure on barack obama. >> yes. >> who said he doesn't want to change it is mounting tonight. >> it is. there are two issues. one is a six-week fix because what's amazing -- >> six weeks? >> six-week fix. they didn't know the deadline is february 15th instead of march 31. so if you want insurance on march 31 you have to have bought it on february 15 or you are subject to the penalty. that's one issue. it doesn't solve the underlying problem which requires a longer delay the in the individual mandate. millions of americans are getting letters saying your health insurance was cancelled
because it doesn't meet the standards of obama care. it could be 16 million who lose health care because of the mandate. those letters are going out on the basis that there is an alternative system to catch them that will be in place january 1 -- the exchanges. but those people can't access to exchanges because the website doesn't work. so on december 31 millions of people will have health care. on january 1 they won't. you could have a net increase in the number of uninsured people. if that happens you have to delay the individual mandate. you cannot punish somebody for not having health insurance when they can't get on the website to buy it. they had health insurance and lost it because of obama care. >> now we are hearing democrats give voice to the same concern that we are seeing. listen to joe manchin, west virginia democrat on o'reilly tonight. >> affordable health care was never meant to be if you have
insurance now you have to buy insurance that's more costly and not as good. >> that has to be fixed. >> that's from a democrat, mark. >> imagine the calls to congress on january 1. if you are one of millions of americans who had insurance, saw your insurance cancelled, can't afford to buy it on the individual market because the prices are through the roof and you can't get on the website to buy it. you will call your congressman saying i'm getting punished? i get a tax penalty for not having insurance? i had it before obama care came along. why am i being punished for not having it when obama care took it away? >> the stakes are high. if they delay the mandate for a year as manchin proposes that would be significant. thank you, sir. >> thanks, megyn. >> also developing tonight exclusive new calls for accountability over the health care mess. specificallily demanding that secretary sebelius be fired. john fleming is a republican and
vice chair of the doctors caucus. he sent a letter to the white house with the signatures of almost three dozen lawmakers. good to see you tonight. you believe secretary sebelius needs to resign. why. >> absolutely. secretary sebelius was one of the biggest chaer leaders if for the law going forward. all along she was reassuring us what a great experience this is going to be for customers. how easy it would be when, in fact, we find out it's been a disaster. a couple of days ago we learned, heck, she never informed the president that this was about to collapse. >> i want to ask you about it. the white house today is maintaining the story that the president didn't know, that he found out as we all found out as the roll out began october 1 he started to learn that. my question is we have seen a pattern of president obama finding out from news reports about major stories from his
administration. do we hold those underneath him accountable or does the buck stop with him? here is a sampling of the president on major stories. >> there have been problems. i heard on the news about this story that fast and furious where allegedly guns were being run into mexico and atf knew b about it. >> i learned about it from the same news reports i think most people learned about this. >> when did the president find out about the department of justice subpoenas for the associated press? >> yesterday. >> and -- >> let me be clear. we don't have any independent knowledge of that. he found out b about the uh news reports yesterday on the road. >> same story now. your thoughts on it. >> we know this is not at all a transparent administration. we know the president demands unbelievable loyalty and he surrounds himself with yes
people. he should be accountable for this. he should have been asking the questions. when it comes to secretary sebelius, she's the ceo. she's the one who is heading hhs. it now controls 1/6 of the largest economy in the world. this problem with the internet portal is just a shiny object. you will find a lot more problems as you go layer by layer into this terrible onion of obama care. >> the white house is standing by. thank you for the being here. >> thank you. >> about three hours ago we got new fox polls on the president, health care law and the political mess in washington. see how those may explain some of the breaking news we are seeing tonight. plus a full panel on the breaking news coming up. and the the house banned a new rule to ban convicted rapists, sex offenders and convicted fe lops from working with our
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offenders and violent felons from working in our children's schools. both democrats and republicans supported this thing. nonetheless as it heads to the senate the teachers unions are objecting. kyle olsen is with the education action group foundation. he's in disbelief over this. kyle, this is -- i mean -- the one thing democrats and republicans agree on, let's keep the convicted rapists and sex offenders away from our most vulnerable, our children in schools and the teachers union says we disagree. why? >> it seems like a no-brainer. ultimately unions are out to protect the adults. they are out for their dues payers, their members, not the interests of the children. that's why we see their opposition to bills like this. we should have zero tolerance for issues like this. we should have a higher ethical standard for teachers and school employees.
think about zero tolerance. we have zero tolerance policies for weapons. a kid who bites a pop-tart into a gun or has a hello kitty bubble maker will be suspended or expelled if they have those things. >> yeah. >> but we can't have a zero tolerance policy for people convicted -- not rumors or allegations but convicted of rape and those sorts of issues. >> let me tell you why some are objecting. congressman ellisson said it ignores the ability of people to over come their the backgrounds with a lifetime ban. how do you overcome your history of murder? >> we should have one strike and you're out when it comes to schools. we are not saying these people shouldn't have a job or anything. they shouldn't be in a school. they shouldn't have direct access to children. that's a no-brainer. >> who wants a con vicked sex
offender working near their children? and the bill covers everybody from janitors to administrators, principals, teachers, you name it. if you are working near children you can't do it. there are certain things. there are certain rights you give up if you rape somebody and get convicted, murder somebody, commit a sex offense and get convicted. yet the teachers union comes out and says it doesn't include individualized assessments that would allow people to provide information on why they no longer pose a risk. they also b object -- this is from the american federation of teachers because background checks would be costly to potential employees. does anybody rise up in response to this from the house or senate? >> what value do they put on it? >> there would be a racial disparity if we do the background checks. the safety of children should be color blind. it shouldn't matter what the
race of anybody is. what we should be doing is protecting the safety of our children. that should be paramount. it shouldn't matter what the unions say. we should tell them to buzz off and not put their members first. we need the children first. the house did it and we seal' if the senate does it. >> what's the end game by the unions. you can't imagine the unions want convicted rapists to be, wog next to their children in the schools. what's the motivation? >> i think their ultimate motivation is protecting the so-called rights of the members. that's their motivation. they don't care about the optics obviously or they wouldn't put themselves in this position. that's what they focus on is the members, not the students. >> getting paid the dues? do you mean? >> yeah. absolutely.
>> there are millions of teachers in america who would never think about doing something inappropriate. >> most. >> yet they have to pay dues to the union putting them in this position. >> we haven't even covered that. how would you like to be a teacher knowing the union advocated we really want convicted rapists, convicted spouse beaters, murders, sex offenders to be working with you. not to mention convicted kidnappers. can't even agree they shouldn't be near the children. thanks for drawing attention to that. >> thank you. >> taking your thoughts on that at twitter. we have big developments on the breaking story. a half dozen top democratic senators breaking with the administration on health care. demanding changes to the law and its roll-out. new fox polls that may explain why they are doing it.
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new fallout from a story we brought you last night. several republican groups are saying democrats denounce alan grayson over a controversial fund raising e-mail he sent that uses a picture of a burning cross and equates the tea party to the ku klux klan. it suggests the burn cross serves as the tea and the caption reads now you know what the tea stands for. lenny curry, you are calling for
state democrats in florida where this happened to denounce this ad. why is that the important? >> good to be with you, megyn. it's despicable. the idea that alan grayson would use a burning cross and invoke the kkk is deplorable. and the florida democratic party should denounce this. i find it interesting the only time we are talking about gray son is when he says something outrageous. he can't get things done so he says ridiculous things to draw attenti attention. >> he called one opponent, a woman, as a k street whore. said the republicans health care plan is to die early. that's what they want people to do. this guy has a lot of greatest hits. he doubled down and said, look, folk ps in the tea party have said racist things about the
president saying he's a muslim from kenya and questioning whether he's an american citizen and so on. that's why he said this. >> he painted a broad brush. it's ridiculous to draw attention to himself. that's the only way people talk about him. the florida democratic party has a history of not denouncing these comments. we had representative garcia down in south florida calling republicans terrorists. they didn't denounce that. we had jesse jackson here recently comparing florida to apartheid. i don't understand why the democratic party in the state of florida won't denounce these hateful, repulsive comments. >> debbie schultz came out and said she's disappointed in the use of the imagery but then said both sides need to dial back that kind of rhetoric and look to bring more civility in politics. what do you think of that? >> i will commend the half hearted apology.
the stuff by grayson is over the top. when you think about the history of the country and some of the really bad things that happen, the kkk, this is deplorable stuff. the idea that grayson would invoke this out of our history on fellow americans is just absurd. >> if you get to the place where you are calling for a party to condemn everything bad, even really bad, that an individual member of the party does, the lawmakers won't have time to legislate. they will be condemning, condemning, condemning. both sides have bad actors. >> there are some things that are over the top. some things are completely below the belt. that's what this is. the florida democratic party, i guess they are like alan grayson this way. the only time we talk about the florida democratic party is when there is dysfunction or an outrageous comment made. >> thanks for being here. >> thank you.
>> coming up, new developments on the top story after the break. a half dozen top senate democrats breaking with the white house tonight to dmapd changes in the health care law. what does it mean for barack obama? is harry reid letting it go to a vote on the senate floor? he hasn't so far. if he does and it goes to barack obama what is he going to do? we'll talk about it next. tonight we speak with the special investigator who worked with baby lisa irwin's partners after she vaed. why her parents believe this young girl is likely their missing daughter. >> did you kill lisa? >> no. she's alive somewhere. >> do you believe she's still alive? >> yes, absolutely. >> did you hurt your baby? >> no. >> no. >> would you ever hurt your baby? >> absolutely not. [ male announcer ] has your phone turned you into a control freak? like, scoring the perfect table?
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back now to breaking news. in the last couple of hours we have reports of at least six democratic senators breaking with the white house and asking now for changes to the health care law. this as we get new polls showing a growing number of americans, now 60% think the rollout of obama care is, quote, a joke. monica crowley is a fox news contributor and host of the monica crowley show. so if you've got six who are saying we need changes -- either extend the enrollment, potentially delay the individual mandate that would be significant. does harry reid allow it to come to a vote on the senate floor? if past is prologue the answer is no. once dwen the american people are looking at him asking why won't you allow it to happen. >> right.
now the ball is back in their court. obama care was never popular. what you are sooe saying is these are probably the peak numbers for obama care. it had one chance for a first impression. they blew it. this is the high water mark for the numbers. democratic senators are saying, if this is the high water mark this is only going to get worse. maybe we need to buy some time. the folks who led the government shutdown if you look at ted cruz or mike lee who centered it around obama care trying to defund it, delay it, stop it however they could i would argue that actually that worked in the sense that it taught the public how bad obama care is. >> i don't know if it was them or the problems with obama care. they were talking over problems which would have come to light earlier.
either way. now you have democrats saying we have to delay this thing. how can you penalize people for not signing up for a program they can't get online to sign up for? >> i couldn't disagree more with monica. i think the gnus for obama care will go up. six in ten americans said it was a joke. it didn't support their affect for obama care at all. what did affect it is several fold. one, the more republicans tried to talk about defending it and shutting down the government, that spiked support by several points to the point where now in some polls as many people support it as oppose it which is a first. >> we talked about it last night. in its history it never had majority support. >> correct. things like 85 million people with preventative care. obama care is more than just the exchanges. >> i know that. but it goes to the heart of the problem. this question is for you. it goes to the heart of the matter. the good stuff kicked in before. that has been happening that you
get insurance up to age 26 on your parents' coverage and so on. it was january 14 before bad stuff kicked in like the individual mandate. if the that's delayed where is the funding mechanism? all the goodies have been in and the penalty kicks up year after year. if you are pushing it down the road who is funding those goodies? >> i don't think we can push it. delaying the individual mandate would be a huge mistake. one thing i would support is if there is bipartisan support a repeal on medical device tax let it come up for a vote. it will be up to senators in the house to figure out -- >> that's just more funding. >> how to replace $30 million. >> the question is whether this law will implode on itself because the mandate is in jeopardy. >> as you point out in the 2010 elections republicans ran on opposing obama care but it was ab tract at that point. we didn't have the law. now real people are affected by this.
they are seeing higher premiums, taxes, deductibles, loss of work, wages. >> hold that thought. i want to take the viewers back. the it is no accident it is these six senators starting to jump ship. some of them a week ago were saying, i don't, i don't believe in extending the mandate. now tonight let's delay the penalties, extend the mandate. let me take you back to when we debated the health care bill and mary landrieu came under fire at town halls whether she would vote for it which she did. >> where in the constitution does the federal government have any right the to stick their hands anywhere in the health care system. >> i ask you for the sake of my children and my grapdchildren, don't let the government come into our lives. >> the universal care i don't feel is the way to go. i hope you really think about this when you go to vote. >> take that back.
cut the waste. you know where it is. >> she did vote for it. but time has elapsed since then. >> yes. they brought a lot of political pressure on her. i wrote about her case in my book last year . >> what the bleep just happened. >> which a lot of americans are asking now. she requested a meeting with president obama at the time. she essentially begged him. she was one of the last remaining moderate democrats in the senate. she said, i'm between a rock and a hard place. let's break it down. do it in separate bills. get public and republican buy-in. he looked at her and said, blanch, you're out of we are do comprehensive way. that was a huge mistake for the american people and what we are facing here. saerm for the democrats. >> you can point out a lot of
cases. i can do the same thing. in new york costs for those on the exchanges will be cut for 50%. >> the overwhelming situation is against obama care. >> 20 million people have tried to at least get information about it. over a half million are in the process of signing up. >> that doesn't mean they like it. >> there is huge demand. no doubt about it. >> let me ask you this. >> we played joe manchin saying this was never meant to kick you off your insurance and make you buy more expensive insurance. that's a democrat. we did a pack saj on this last night on facebook.com/the kelly file talking about how the law was passed. zero republican support. it never had the majority support of the american people. the majority of the american people disliked the law from before it was passed to today. that's why the republicans now and now some of the moderate democrats aren't saying there is
a problem, let's fix it necessarily. we are starting to hear more and more there is a problem, let's say we told you so. >> i disagree. because of the following. if you test the individual elements of the law, should there be annual and lifetime caps, no. should pre-existing conditions be covered, yes. should kids be on insurance, yes? should we have substance abuse coverage, yes. should we close the donut hole? yes. there has to be a mechanism for that. >> to pay for it. >> exactly right. you have to take the benefits and understand there are costs involved, a. b, if we are going to slow down the rising costs of medical care which obama care has already done you have to go down. >> the last one i would leave you with is this. they say the tech surge will fix the website. my husband happens to have come from the tech industry. he said there is a saying in the tech industry where you have 50 guys fixing the problem. we say, get a hundred guys on it
and we'll fix it faster and the team says, if you put nine women it wouldn't take one month to have a baby. it takes what it takes. >> so far we don't see general petraeus to lead the tech surge. >> i'm not going there. thank you both. >> thank you. >> they want to remove god if from the plenl at a military academy. what spurred this the potential change? it may happen. next. [ male announcer ] once, there was a man who found a magic seashell. it told him what was happening on the tradg floor in real time. ♪ the shell brought him great fame. ♪ but then, one day, he noticed that everybody could have a magic seashell. [ indistinct talking ] [ male announcer ] right there in their trading platform. ♪ [ indistinct talking continues ] [ male announcer ] so the magic shell went back to being a...shell. get live squawks right in your trading platform with think or swim from td ameritrade.
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first on "the kelly file," the air force considering what some call a dramatic change. possibly removing the phrase "so help me god" from the oath every cadet has to take. trace gallagher explains. >> reporter: the air force academy sent pictures of the new prep school to a local newspaper writer in colorado springs. there was a poster of the honor oath which ends in "so help me god." then the writer sent the picture to mikey weinstein, head of the religious freedom foundation who filed a complaint with the air force academy. the picture was taken down but the issue is far from settled. the academy says the honor review committee had an in depth discussion about the honor code oath. they consider a range of options and some of the options will be presented to academy leaders and ultimately the superintendent for a decision.
while this is debated weinstein says there is not so friendly pushback including this from a woman who said we are taught to hate the sin but love the sinner. you are all sin, mr. weinstein. our church prays your days be few until you meet your father satan. weinstein didn't follow but actor mike farrell did respond with this quoting no one here is anti-christian. we just believe people like you cannot be allowed to shove your belief system down the throat of the men and women at the u.s. air force academy or anywhere in the u.s. military in defiance of our constitution. but the chief counsel for american center for law and justice says the oath doesn't violate the constitution. here he s. this. >> don't be bullied by mikey weinstein. we are friends.
we disagree on this. but the fact is you cannot say there is a serious establishment clause violation by the phrase "so help me god" or the president of the united states would be violating it when they take the oath of office. >> he's fine with cadets opting out of the phrase but not changing the oath all together. megyn? >> joining me now the founder and president of the religious freedom foundation, the same group challenging the air force academy to remove the phrase. thank you for being here. why not say to cadets if you don't want to say it, don't say it. that's good enough. >> it's great to be in fox world. we have a thing called the constitution. thank you for asking me to be a guest on your show. as jay forgets we are not just talking about the no establishment clause. part of the body of the constitution was called the no
religious clause which says we'll never have a religious test for any position in the government. when i was contacted friday on this i took a look at the picture, realized it was wrong, called air force academy leadership. i j had just met face to face with lieutenant general johnson, the new superintendent -- >> with all due respect you are not answering the question. the question is why can't they just opt out? if they don't want to say so membership me god they don't have to. >> why not just opt out of robbing a bank? it violate it is the law. let me say it again in words of one syllable. it violates the syllable -- the no establishment clause and no religious test clause three article six violate it is law. historically going back to 1789 when there was a military oath, nobody ever had to have an oath. it didn't happen until 1862. >> b what about barack obama?
our presidents say it when they take the oath. >> that's ridiculous -- excuse me. excuse me. >> i'm just asking the question. mikey, chill. chill. come on. it's okay. just asking the question. >> megyn. like i said, i'm in the universe here in fox. want to talk about presidents? john quincy adams put his hand on a book of laws, not the bible. a devout christian. he loved the separation of church and state which makes our country greater. >> fine. have that and the people who want to say it can say it? >> what was your question? the people that want to say it can say it? >> yeah. instead of trying to get rid of the oath, we will not lie, cheat, steal nor tolerate anyone who does. i will do my duty so help me god. >> as i said before -- why don't you let somebody say it. leave it off to comply with the law. if they want to say so help me
god perhaps they can do that. the poster said we will not lie or steal. it forgot the word cheat. it had been up there for years. they had to take it down. talk about the keystone cops. they forgot to put the word "cheat" in the code. it had to dom down anyway beside it is fact that it violated the united states constitution. >> it was noxious? all right. mikey, interesting getting your perspective. thanks for coming here into fox world. see you soon. >> it's a great world. up is down. down is up. >> up negligence why baby lisa's parents think a young blond girl found in a gypsy camp could be their daughter. plus on "hannity" -- >> mr. grayson is showing a disregard for the truth. he's engaging in false speech, the kind that's not protecteded.
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. this is the front door of the house of the deborah bradley says she cannot remember whether she locked it on the night in question. the father say it is was unlocked when he returned home. is it possible that an intruder actually walked right up this stoop and into the home and left with that baby girl? it would have had to happened overnight and take a look at how close this house is from the street. it's steps away.
there are neighbors everywhere. is it possible that an intruder would have been that bold? the family brieelieves it is. and two years later those questions remain. they are waiting for answers as to whether a young girl found at a gypsy camp is their daughter. this is a security consultant. do you think this is her? >> no. >> the family does, though. >> well, the family will, they pray, and i hope it is for them, but in all actuality i really don't think it is. >> why? >> the age difference and the distance. >> they say this girl is about five, but the baby would be three. they said the baby was always big. >> my heart goes out to the irwins, and i support their belief in that.
but i truly believe baby lisa is much closer in the area. >> do you think she's alive? >> i dhoos schoose to say yes. >> you know mark fuhrman has been a big critic. she admitted that she was drunk for the first time with me, she admitted that she was drunk. she was, there were some inconsistencies. and people started to really look at her and say it just so happened on this night you got passed out blackout drunk, your child goes missing and fuhrman was saying some people from grease ca greece, snatched her, really? >> how come they haven't brought this to court yet? case. they can't make the case against
anybody and clearly a crime was committed. >> the irwins aren't my client. and if i found compelling evidence, i would say lock them up. >> you did say if they are guilty then that's what we're going to sachlt and yet you went and spent a lot of time with them and you emerged thinking what? >> they are not my friends. i don't think they did it. i think it came from outside the home. i think the cops do know. they have a feeling. they've actually questioned people pertaining to this. i think there is a female and a former meth addicts that are very close to this. and i think they need to reexamine that. >> why would this child, in your guess, be over there, found, and no one has claimed her yet? i guess some people have come
forward. they've done dna tests. they haven't been able to match it up thus far. does that strike you as odd? >> yes and no. the world's a big place. and we don't know where this child comes from. do we have the language pinned down from where she's from. do people know about this worldwide? we don't know. >> you would think that every parent who had lost a child went missing -- >> exactly. >> anywhere near this coloring in this child. >> then it makes you think something more nefarious wasn't taken, sold. >> let's hope we get a resolution one way or another. send me a tweet and we will be right back. don't go away. back. both maxwell and ted have hail damage to their cars. ted is trying to get a hold of his insurance agent. maxwell is not.
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facebook. there we've posted interviews from the show. and on there we've posted the interview with the irwins. thanks for watching everybody. i'm megyn kelly. this is the kelly world. no excuse for the problems. >> team obama in full damage control mode. >> do you know when he first knew that there was a problem? >> well, i think it became clear fairly early on the first couple of days that -- but not before that, though. >> is he clueless or is kathleen sebelius lying to cover his tracks? a low level aide is fired for what? >> what difference at this point does it make? >> six months delay, it's not going to