tv Justice With Judge Jeanine FOX News April 12, 2014 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT
hello and welcome to justice. i'm judge jeanine pirro. thanks for being with us. tonight, the irs, sebelius, benefit ga si and the power grid. first, the standoff where the feds have been battling a local rancher in a struggle between a cattle rancher and the federal government. their cattle has grazed the nevada desert earning them land use rights on public lands. but a federal judge has ordered them to pay grazing fees. this week, they surrounded his
ranch and began deporting his cattle. they tazed his son and knocked down his sister extensively to protect desert tortoise. a confrontation was up this week as cattle ranchers, farmers, and militia groups supporting buttondy swarmed the area. joining me now, william live from nevada. william, big developments today. tell us what happened. >> reporter: well, you know, judge, this is not the result many of us expected. as of last night with a conference call, they were going call, they were seizing his cattle, about 400. they had knocked down corals and fences, taken down water tanks. this morning, the blm abruptly
said it was stopping operations, it was pulling out. that was unexpected. they said they were doing that for the safety of its own employees as well as the public. of course, we had a lot of armed militia out here. they said basically they were backing off. but they didn't offer to give him back his cattle. we stood there at 9:00 a.m. they said listen, i'm going to give them one hour or we're going to go down and get them. that's exactly what they did. there was this huge confrontation on interstate 15. two to 300 protestors stopping traffic southbound. then the highway patrol shows up and there is literally a confrontation, i will say an armed confrontation because some law enforcement had their guns on and some with the citizens
militia, they had their guns out as well. we have pictures of guys in a sniper position looking through their sites. >> it seems that both sides were heavily armed. for the feds to back off what they originally said. they say today we announce the decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our grave concern about the safety of employees and members of the public. they talk about safety being their number one priority. you know william, i have to ask you a more direct question. do you think, william, that the feds blinked here? >> reporter: what i believe is they miss calculated in and misjudged the response that was going to come down. so some of the protestors went to get the cattle out. they were rebuffed and the negotiation was taken place. and indeed, the blm released the
cattle, again saying for public safety reasons. and then the cattle showed up down at the river about 30 minutes later all real happy. so blinked, i'm not sure. >> right. you can see the cows coming home there on our screen. reports are that some of the cattle actually died. is that true? >> reporter: i don't know that for a fact. i know that i got that secondhand. you know, when you're being herded up during castling season. that it can be rather stressful on them. i was told that some died, but i'm not personally aware of that. >> interesting you say the females and the children. but let me try to get to what the core of this is. is this really about tortoises,
william? >> reporter: well, i tell you what i think it is for a lot of the people here. these are a lot of rural people and they have a lot of things in common. i think they see their livelihood and their lifestyle threatened or under assault by some blame and overbearing federal government. you're in farming and you worry about your pesticides and you can't use gmo. you're ranching and they say cattle is going to help the fly or the owl or something like that. they have these things in common. >> well, but it's kind of curious, in 1991 that same bureau of land management euthanizing the tortoises. it seems kind of hypocrite call that they would now claim to protect them when they were resolved to kill them. did they really have a coral for the protestors where they had to
stand? >> yeah, the blm -- and they took this down within 24 hours because people laughed at them and actually put up signs. they had a 30 by 30 area with kind of orange crime tape around it and said this is your area where you're going to speak. of course, these people totally ignored it. they pulled it. >> all right, welcome. thanks so much. joining me now, the family friend scott hagman. are you there? >> yes, i am. >> all right. can you tell us -- i'm a fan of your show. >> i'm sorry? >> i'm a fan -- big fan of your show. >> thank you. how is the family doing tonight? >> they're under a lot of stress. almost like -- kind of like shock in a way. they've been through a lot. the outcome today was a huge relief to them. so as you can imagine, they're
trying to get some rest right now. i just happened to be the one here speaking for them. >> i understand that you have been friends with this family for the better part of 20 years. can you tell us a little about them? >> yes. clooif has been a hard working man. he's raised some good boys. they -- they're just good men. they're good americans. they're just normal good men. he started out -- we did this in '93 also. and we won that time. >> what did you do in '93, scott? >> we left the cattle out here. they tried to gather the cattle before. >> right. >> so he's been down this road before. what he came to was a hard spot. he believes that it's wrong what's going on. what's going on is wrong. it's just wrong. and he would not sit down.
he stood up then. he stood up for over 20 years now. he's never backed down. his boys have never backed down. i'm proud of all of them. and they brought the solution to this head now that we can have that discussion. move forward here. and he set an example for all of us that if good men just stand up and remain standing, we can change a lot of things in the federal government. the federal government right now is gist out of control. >> why do you think that the federal government is even doing this? >> there could be a lot of political reasons. and absolute power corrupts absolutely. the people in these boards, they're untouchable. they work for the government. they -- they're really hard to deal with. they believe that they own the ground and they're able to manage us for the best result of their ground. it's not the public's ground
anymore. it becomes their ground. it just gets out of control. the whole introduction of the turtles and everything was justjust ridiculo ridiculous. >> in 1991, the bower row of land -- bureau of land management said we need to kill them all. are they seen as a here row there now? >> yes, he is. he should be a he row to everyone. he's a common man who stood up, stood for what was right and never sat down. he believes what he's going is right and he's moving forward. >> so you have to feel good about the fact that so many people just picked up and went out there. you know, it's not good that you have the feds heavily armed and the ranchers heavily armed, literally snipers aiming at each other. he has to get a sense that there's a certain part of america that agree and the people who have, you know, had
their cattle graze on the land for centuries. >> yeah. you know, as his son said, he said, can you believe -- he asked me, can you believe that we were staring down assault rifles from our federal blm, our land people. we were literally staring down assault rifles. we pressed them in order to make them come to a different conclusion. >> what's next for the bundy family? >> i hope they get some good rest. i know there's a lot of people out there praying for them. they need strength right now and they need some good representation as far as how they're going to be able to keep their cattle and get right with the government. not right with the government, but right with the county and right with their neighbors here in clark county. that's what they intend on
doing. >> all right. scott, you know, you really have to give him a lot of credit. he's been under the gun, so to speak, for more than 20 years on this. thanks for being with us tonight. >> thank you. >> all right. and coming up, the lowest learner held in contempt. could she finally be forced to face the music? and who should we deport from nevada? cattle or illegals? we'll read your answer later in the e e e e e
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targeting of conservative groups. she repeatedly took the fifth. republicans say she waived that right by giving a statement claiming her innocence. lerner's attorney and democrats say the contempt charges won't hold up. with me is congressman micah of florida. how do you vote on this and why? >> well, i voted to hold lois lerner in contempt because again she acted in contempt both of congress and the rights of the american people. she tried to use her position to thwart an election. that's wrong by any standard. >> and congressman, you know, how do you know that she did this? how much evidence do you have as, you know, as a member of that committee? >> well, she's kept as much as
she could from us. but from the e-mails we've gotten and it's considerable. we don't have everything. we've interviewed 39 witnesses. almost every one of them pointed at her. this wasn't something republicans alone initiated in 2010, '11, and even '12, there were both republicans and democrats who notified irs that they had been contacted by conservative groups that were being targeted. the insist tore general was appointed after seven democrat senators had written irs. they investigated it. we have the complete report by the independent inspector general who found in fact that conservative groups were targeted, period. now, she -- when this report was coming out just prior to that, she spoke to the aba group. and she put on a hollywood
performance throwing -- it was said at the same throwing under bus the irs workers in cincinnati where they processed this. we also heard testimony from the head of the group in cincinnati, the irs chief employer out there who said she not only threw us under the bus. it was more like throwing us under a convoy of mack trucks. >> you know, so many people, you know, say based upon your refiez l to -- refusal to hand over information that, you know, this isn't really connected to the white house, not that we know it is or isn't. but does that matter? isn't the issue whether or not someone in our government is using their political agenda to investigate and stop the free speech rights of other people?
>> well, that's the major point here. and if it was liberal groups, i think the other side would be hollering. this is a very serious matter because she tried to use her position to gag a -- one political group, conservative group she targeted to close them down prior to the 2012 elections. when we an e-mail from someone else on election day that was sent by her that she was successful in doing this. there is a trail. she, again, has thwarted the committee. we've offered two times to come and testify. on the first time, she opened with 17 points of stating her innocence in the matter. that's not the way this process works. >> as a former district attorney and judge, you can't do that
once you claim your innocence and you waive the fifth amendment. >> i lost audio here. >> it's okay. thank you, kang man. all right. coming up, lois lerner might face some music, but the day we rescued riley was a truly amazing day. he was a matted mess in a small cage. so that was our first task, was getting him to wellness. without angie's list, i don't know if we could have found all the services we needed for our riley. from contractors and doctors to dog sitters and landscapers, you can find it all on angie's list. we found riley at the shelter, and found everything he needed at angie's list. join today at angieslist.com yeah. i heard about progressive's "name your price" tool? i guess you can tell them how much you want to pay and it gives you a range of options to choose from. huh? i'm looking at it right now.
former irs official lois lerner held in contempt of congress. what does that mean for the conservative groups that were targeted? and what if anything will happen to lerner. with me the director for the american center for law and justice. lois lerner, a public official, repeatedly refuses to answer questions. if our government and we've been told they've ended the
investigation. will we ever know what happened here? >> i think what we saw this week -- and thanks for having me on tonight -- for a civil case like ours, both the wednesday report, the criminal charges along with the contempt does help the civil cases. the criminal case, we're talking about the department of justice. it is more difficult for them now that they were handed an investigation very much spelled out with a lot of new information, one about the targeting of the tea party groups, but larger conservative groups as well and ignores the liberal groups, organizing for action, the obama 501 c 4. even as we speak tonight, the groups that she wanted to deny status like cross roads and 16 of our clients, 11 who haven't gotten an answer, still have not
gotten an answer from the irs. >> is there any chance she's going to be held in contempt? they've said, look, we want this woman investigated. they refer to justice. eric holder himself was held in contempt. is there any chance she's going to be held in contempt and serve jail time? eric holder's case is a little bit different. it was filed in august of 2012. so we're talking about something that's taken nearly two years. i think with lois lerner, the pressure that's put on someone like her who's having to pay this attorney out of pocket and an attorney who a lot of us think is botched, much of this is the reason why she was held in contempt. >> jordan, i'm sorry to interrupt. what makes you think that lois lerner is paying out of her own pocket and that she's not being supported? if you recall, the president said this was something he wasn't going to tolerate, he was
going to get to the bottom of it. the woman pleads the 5th, she goes on vacation, she gets her pay. do you really believe that? >> i don't know how much she's having to pay her attorney. these are friends of hers. they may not be charging the same amount. i do know from our civil case that the government is not covering everything. >> that doesn't mean that friends of the government are not. >> sure. sure. >> is this a victory, jordan, for the groups that were targeted? >> we still have 16 clients who never gotten an answer. we are still in court to this day. i agree with you, it's very unlikely that anything is going to happen to eric holder, but for those of us still fighting it out in civil court, remember she can still cut a deal. >> what's next in your fight? >> you know, we are still in
this process, one, of are we going to actually have our clients cooperate. a few of them got asked by the fbi. literally a few, three. all the talk by president obama and other things that happened, is this an on going criminal investigation of irs officials. we're still waiting for that answer a couple months later. on the civil front, we're in the motions process right now and we'll see which of the claims, there's nine counts in ours. then move forward. >> thanks so much for being with us this evening. coming up, my statement on the latest benefit ga si lies and why one of our most trusted officials, the former head of officials, the former head of the cia, lied to the a a a a a a [ thunder crashes ] [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them.
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they found no evidence that the driver of a tractor trailer tried to wrak before it crashed into a bus thursday in california. investigators are saying they can't corroborate a claim from a witness who says the cab appeared to be on fire before the collision the bus was taking high school students to visit a northern california university when the collision happened. 0 people were killed including five students. >> and planes have resumed the search for a missing malaysian jetliner. transmissions from the black boxes are fading fast. australia's prime minister is warning the search will likely continue quote, for a long time. flight 37 # vanished with 239 souls on board. now back to justice with judge jeanine. back to justice with ju jeanine. and now my statement on the latest benghazi lies. this nation was founded on
pillars of truth and justice. it's who we are. it's what we stand for. it's why american patriots broke from king george iii. yet the obama administration's relentless affront to the core of this republic continues to chip away at that very foundation. they laugh at you and dance by the obama play book of delay, lie, deny and plead the fifth. it's all theater to them. the latest performance, former cia chief swears to tell the truth and incredibly claims his removal of the truth and substitution of lies about benghazi and his attempt to change the course of history was not political. in my line of work, when someone swears on the bible and admits he lied and is full of claims
become the official version of the united states government, it would demand is presentation to the grand jury and a subsequent indictment. he starts -- >> i took out the word islamic in front of extremist. and i took it out for two reasons. most importantly, i took it out because we were dealing with protests and demonstrations across much of the muslim world as a result of the video. and the last thing i wanted to do was to do anything to further enflame those passions. >> you remove any reference to islamic terrorism, any reference to al qaeda, because you didn't want to enflame passions in the mud limb world?
enflame passions? they'd be high fiving each other in the middle of the bazaar. you don't think that killing four americans including an ambassador, desecrating the american flag is a result of already ennamed passions? are you stupid too? a little history here mr. cia, it started in 1979 in iran with the taking of our hostages by muslim terrorists. then they started killing us. 1993, the world trade center bombing. 2000, the uss cole. 2001, the twin towers. the pentagon, pennsylvania. and you think you're going to piss these people off? they already hate us. how do we know who the enemy is if you don't identify them? there are all kinds of terrorists.
morel, you lied to us, you lied to congress, you knew it wasn't a video and you purgered yourself. you are a political -- and then, even though the truth was that our cia warned us and you about the dangers in benghazi, you take that out. and your reason? this would have been seen as an attempt to make the cia look good. look good? it was the truth. mr. cia, you didn't just sell your agency to the politics of the obama reelection campaign and the kovup for the hillary 2016 campaign, you sold your soul and you purgered yourself for money, now making a fortune now working for one of hillary's dearest friends so she can continue to lie that she knew
nothing about the dangers to her friend. there was a man in a garden who took 30 pieces of silver who denied and lied. what was his name? so you admit you lied to protect the woman who would be president who ignored and rejected the pleas of her ambassador and the men who were murdered. proud of yourself? and you sell your fellow cia men and women for your personal ambition? even comic book characters know what the truth. >> we're here to fight for truth and justice sf the american way. >> you're going to end up fighting every elected official in this country. >> truth and justice were betrayed by you, your president and the woman who would be president. it's not just the four men murdered, it's not just their families battered and beaten with the changing narrative from
this administration, including from the mouths of the president, secretary clinton, and it's not just the american people. it's our republic. it's our foundation. it's who we are. how dare you try to change that. and that's my statement. joining me now former cia senior analyst fred flights. all right, fred, why would the head of the cia choose to believe a washington desk man over a cia station chief on the ground witnessing what was going on? >> well, judge, thank you for having me on and for your relentless pursuit of this important story. i was an analyst for 19 years. this story is to painful to me. how he would ignore information
from the man on the frowned in libya, the station chief, put up talking points he knew were false and advance the obama campaign, i just find appalling. why this is such a problem is that this undermines the represent butation of the cia as an honest broker in washington. the media's going to make this go away. there's going to be a long lasting effect on the hill among members of congress when cia makes a call on an ash -- >> you know what, i mean to defend you and all those cia men and women who put their lives on the line every day, the truth is that the men and the women on the ground said the truth. it was a political -- i already said it. i called him -- who changed the facts and instead substituted a lie. hopefully this isn't going to affect the cia. they were right. they warned us. they warned the government.
no one listened to them. then they wouldn't give them credit. let me move on. by not identifying the terrorists specifically, did he give them more time to get away? >> i think there's a possibility that that happened. i mean, the cia was advancing a story that continued for several weeks just before the presidential campaign that distracted the media, distracted many people from looking at the story and what really happened. we have to consider the possibility that we may not have been pursuing because the cia said it wasn't a terrorist attack. >> how do your fellow cia men and women feel about this? their director lying to the american people? >> my friends in the agency and my friends on the intelligence committee staff, they're very disturbed about this and many of them can't figure out what happened. an issue that keeps coming up over and over again is that
there must have been analysts who objected to this happening. did they file come plants with the inspector general? why haven't they come to say my work was politicized. clearly someone's words were politicized. where are the complaints? >> you know, that's a very good question, fred, because it seems that everyone has shut down. we haven't heard from any of the people that survived the fight. other than a couple members of the families complaining. it's almost like there's this hush. should the cia be about justice and accountability and -- and not leaving our men behind on the battle field and do you think that if we had had a select committee from the beginning, we would have gotten to the bottom of this? >> i'm concerned that there hasn't been accountability on
many levels. the accountability is what happened in benghazi and why did it happened, what were the security problems? i think there should be a select committee in the house. it still baffles me why this was not approved. the administration has played the -- a game where each committee has jurisdiction other certain part of this story. and they won't talk about an issue that is not within that committ committee's jurisdiction. a special committee could get passed that. i don't understand why speaker boehner has not approved a special committee to look at all the intelligence and find out what happened. >> hopefully we'll be able to find out. i don't think it's too late. we're going to stay on this story. it infewer rates me. thanks to much for being with us. >> great to be here. coming up, sebelius might be coming up, sebelius might be gone, but that doesn't when you sat down to dinner with anticipation, not hesitation.
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"beating obamacare 2014" bet city. what does her departure mean? >> kathleen sebelius is probably the most corrupt member of this very corrupt administration. she lied to the public again and again. she lied to congress and that's a crime. >> that's a crime that this mfgs doesn't really -- >> she lied to congress repeatedly. she tried to shake down private health care companies for contributions. >> explain that to me. i've heard that a lot. >> yes. because there was an entity called enroll america. >> right. >> staffed by former white housers and campaign people from a obama that was to play a major role in encouraging enrollment. she literally called health care companies that she oversees to get them to donate to them. worst of all, she shredded our
constitution, constantly changing what this law said to accommodate the president's political preferences. >> the white house says she resigned on her own in early march. should she have resigned a long time ago? >> she should have been fired. everyone talks about her incompetence. >> wasn't she a governor in kansas? >> yes, she was. are you -- >> no. here's the thing. was she covering up because she -- you know, that was the agreement? i mean did she understand or not understand that she would ultimately be thrown under the bus? >> i don't know what she understood, but she did a terrible job. it's obvious to everyone she had no management skills in this job. what's really important is how she became part of the white house lie machine. she was used again and again to
deceive the american public about what this law says and what it will mean. the fact is, even with her gone, this is not sebelius care. it is obamacare. most of the problems are baked into this law made worse by the president's deceptive hard sell. you're going to see a lot of programs rollout in the coming months. premiums spiking according to the ceo of aetna. konser patients -- cancer patients desperate. >> not only that, but they lost their insurance. >> that's right. >> we've had these people on. do you think it will save the democrats up for election in november? >> of course not. in the coming months, 25 to 30 million people are going to lose their on the job coverage. the cancer patients are going to wonder how they're going to survive. about a million people who signed up for this are going to stop paying premiums when they
discover the deductible means they have to pay full when they go to the doctor. >> now they nominate another woman. is she the diend of woman that can handle this? >> she is a white house insider. she's going to be part of this lie machine. generally the secretary of health and human services is someone of independent stature recruited because of his or her knowledge and ability. that is not her. >> all right. always good to hear your take on this. thanks for being with us. coming up, senators held a hearing this week on the dangers facing the u.s. power grid. why do they talk about everything but the dangers of the u.s. power grid? this is your last chance to vote on the poll. who should we deport from (dad) well, we've been thinking about it and we're just not sure. (agent) i understand. (dad) we've never sold a house before.
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this past thursday, almost a year after the april 16, 2013 assault on a california power station, i attended a senate hearing on the reliability and security of the electric rick grid. after three hours, i left thinking the issue of grid security was trumped by the senator's out ramg at our knowing about the attack itself. the claims by one senator after another that the publicity surrounding the 20-minute, nonstop shooting of 70 transformers had nothing to do with their hearing was totally belithed by the fact that they didn't even direct mandatory standards on security until march 7th of this year after we found out.
and the letter of outrage regarding whether we need minimum standards came after the wall street journal exposes on february 6th, 9th, 18th and march 12th. curious they only demanded minimum standards after we the public were informed. frank, these senators, and i sat in that room, are more concerned with how the information about the shooting of the grid got out than how to protect americans. why? >> well, it's stunning especially since the whole purpose of the hearing was to establish whether we were going to be able to keep the lights on. the u.s. government has known for at least ten years that the grid is extremely vulnerable. i think you have a book that we've published recently that summarizes 11 different studies that confirm this fact. secondly, our enemies know the
grid is vulnerable. in fact, as you mentioned, somebody went after it. the only people who are in the dark about what is arguably an existential threat of the first order of this country are the american people. if this hearing is any guide, the senators, the regulators and the utilities seem to be of a mind that they're going to keep us perhaps permanently in the dark. >> i was stunned. i mean, the first question was how did this information get out. it was an attack on a substation. it was in all the papers. not one senator even suggested legislation to protect our grid and the american people. but instead legislation to prevent us from knowing about the attacks on the grid. >> well, you know, my background is in national security. i get that there's a lot of unease about making it any easier for bad eyes to understand just how july neshl
we are. but clearly if the effect of all of this is to suppress the american people's awareness of a mortal threat to them, i'm afraid that simply creates a condition that the enemy still knows and we're still vulnerable. this north american electricry reliability corporation, i think the better explanation is no electric rick liability. i think legislation like the grid actor the shield act should come out of this committee. i know you want to talk about congressman fred up ton again. >> we've invited him on the show. he won't come on. he supported the legislation until he didn't until he started receiving 60% contributions from electric companies and lobbie s
lobbiests. >> i was hard nd that his committee had in a briefing, he came out of it saying this is a very serious problem and we are committed to working with industry and working with the regulators and so onto get this problem fixed. i'm going to take him at his word. a poll that we did last year of his constituents makes it evidence that about 50% of them think reasonably well of him now. that goes up about 12 points if he takes the lead on protecting them and the rest of the country against the kinds of threats from the sun or from enemies of this country that would take it down and would take us down with the grid. >> we're going to stay on this. thanks so much for your take. >> i'm glad you are. >> and now it's time for the results of tonight's question. we asked who should we deport from nevada, cattle or illegals. manuel says illegals and harry
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moles? they dig up the facts. naturally. let carfax® help you find the right used car with the right history. i like it. start shopping now at carfax.com tonight, how could this be happening in america, citizens put in the cross hairs of their government by agents from the atf? >> they were looking for a way to scare us. >> and homeland security. >> homeland security raiding in our frackties makes no sense. >> environmental authorities threatening jail time. >> we're going to use everything in the book. >> and federal rangers staging a cattle round. >> fully ready to spoil for a fight. >> these people discovered what it's like when a powerful force you thought was on your side turns against you. >> i'm not the om one. i'm speaking for thousands, maybe tens of thousands, maybe