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tv   Justice With Judge Jeanine  FOX News  May 10, 2014 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT

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top-rated provider to do the work on your schedule. the app makes it easy. the power of angie's list makes it work. download snapfix for free. judge jeanine. hello and welcome to justice. i'm judge jeanine pirro. tonight a key player in the clinton impeachment. his take on monica lewinsky breaking her silence. could washington finally be paying attention to the dangers facing the u.s. power grid? but first, my open. you know, they have to be afraid of something. for democrats to even consider not participating in the select hearings on benghazi, something the dems could easily say happened two years ago, on the other side of the globe that
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affected just 4 people. a hearing that would overshadow the ongoing obamacare debacle. that affects the pocket book of literally millions of americans today tells me that the democrats have something to hide. now, the democrats could if there were indeed nothing to benghazi trumpet, we will you there is nothing there. hearings in fact would obscure the democrats' biggest vulnerability in 2014. obamacare. the issue that has brought obam. so if the dems can muddy up the waters of obamacare disaster with something they say is a nonissue, why would they object? what do they have to lose? it's a win/win for them. and for any of you out there thinking, like nancy pelosi -- >> the fact is this is a stunt. this is a political stunt.
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that's what this is. we've been there, done this over and over again. >> we've done this over and over again, nancy? but why? maybe we need to get some straight answers, instead of the cameos of politicians pontificating from their purchase. allowing the witnesses to filibuster. why? to continue to ask questions until they get a damn answer. now, trey doughty is a seasoned prosecutors who will get answers. who will get facts and will get justice for those families. but what i want to know, did the president give the cross border authority order to send in reinforcements to save americans under attack? not just the four who lost their lives but the countless more on the ground in benghazi for more than eight hours. did the president even go into
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the situation room? it was just eight weeks before a tight election. were the president's political operatives, valerie jarrett and david axelrod in the situation? we know that greg hicks, the highest person on the ground in libya after the ambassador spoke to hillary that night and he said he had gotten word that chris stevens was in a hospital, possibly as a hostage. so why weren't the emergency forces that we know were mobilized not sent? who gave the stand down order? now, libya was a u.s.-backed government since the out offer of gadhafi. why couldn't f-16s do a play theover to disperse the crowd? and no fbi for three weeks because it wasn't safe? really? and to hillary, you're the telephone champion. >> it's 3:00 a.m. and your children are safe and asleep.
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who do you want answering the phone? >> i'm hillary clinton and i approved this message. >> so hillary, why were you on the phone with the president of tunisia that night? no americans were dying in tunisia. and even before that, why did you continue to downgrade the security for our ambassador while he and his staff were asking repeatedly for more security? all the while the cia telling you that al qaeda affiliated training camps, at least ten of them, surrounded benghazi. and hill. why did not you go on those sunday morning talk shows? too busy racking up those frequent flyer mails? and why tell dead man's parents that would you get the guy who did the video. that you were so quick to blame. and even more revealing, 36 hours before ben rhodes' e-mail
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linking the white house to the fake video narrative and directing that obama's policy not be blamed, hillary, said almost the exact same thing. and will someone please tell me why the cia was even in benghazi and our ambassador after everyone had left? were they there to facilitate the flow of our leftover weapons through turkey to the al qaeda affiliated syrian rebels? and why did everyone lie, jay carney, mike morrell, susan rice, pineda, dempsey, and talking of jay carney, has this guy ever not told a lie at a press conference? he should be indicted just for showing up. you know his intent is to lie. so why was everyone promoted who participated in the conspiracy?
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and no one fared or even demoted other than, of course, the one eyewitness on the ground begging for help. and hillary, might you be the one who made up the video narrative? after all, ben rhodes in his e-mail parroted exactly what you had said 36 hours earlier. but why would you do that? because you had to come up with a story. it was under your watch that minimum safety standards weren't met. that security was downgraded repeatedly. that no help was send. that the lie was fabricated and that the morale of our military was decimated. and our respect on the world stage demolished. now, i don't know the answers to any of those questions. and hill rirks it may not make a difference to you but it does to the rest us.
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all americans need answers. not just republicans. not just democrats. and the four americans who lost their lives deserve nothing less. that's my open. with me now, congressman paul gosar, member of the house oversight committee. good evening, congressman. >> good evening, judge. >> nancy pelosi says that this committee is a political stunt. what is your reaction to that? >> i've got to laugh. she has no regard for human life and for these brave men and women that were placed in harm's way. this is really, really sad. the veterans in our county should look at her disdainfully. >> well, you know, congressman, the idea that some people never heard of it or the nsc communications guy vitter said, that was like two years ago. it is shocking that people in congress actually speak like that. especially with positions like
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she has. >> absolutely. everywhere i go, i'm one of the most successful members of congress. everywhere i go, what is the resolution on benghazi? who is responsible? why would miss clinton say what she said? why would people belittle this? over and over again, it is one of the first things in our town halls and when we have coffee in the morning. every single time. >> what's your reaction to the seven members who have been chosen for the benghazi select committee? >> i think these are fabulous people, judge. you talked about trey, one of the best people i know. just incredible. you look at susan brooks in the southern district of indiana. mike pompeo at the top of his class and then went to harvard law. you've got martha roby whose dad is a federal judge.
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you've got westmoreland. he is the chairman of the intel facts knows where to go for the people to get answers from. a fabulous group. >> it is. what's interesting is, i expected that they will get answers to the questions they ask. what reason, congressman, can you think of would the democrats have to boycott or not to boycott? >> i tell you what. if they don't they've got so much to lose. they're interested about a video and that includes the president as well. he was the one that went in front of the united nations to talk about the video even back then work the weeks after benghazi. so they're not interested in the truth. they're only interested in their narratives and they're not interested playing from behind in the national stage that we find in putin and syria and egypt all the way across the world. this is problematic for the
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democrats. i would challenge them. do justice a favor. sit at the table. get through the answers and be proud about the answers. >> do you think that the republicans would still go forward if the dems in fact do boycott? >> i would scream at the top of my lungs to go forward. absolutely. justice deserved to be served. >> and the dems going into the election, the 2014 mid terms, i would think they would appreciate that this, if they're so right, would kind of put obamacare the affects so many of us rate now kind of like water you down a little. do you think? >> it mate water it down a little bit but i tell you, the back en, you're looking at it in the v.a. scandal. if you think you like obamacare, look at the v.a. that's what obamacare is bringing. >> that's where you'll end up. all right, congressman gosar, thank you for being with us. >> thank you so much, judge.
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coming up, a given that this administration's lays, and they refuse to turn over their baerng e-mails. the question is, what else are they hiding? we'll tell you next. and vote in tonight's insta-poll. what lesson do you wish cross .
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recently released explosive e-mail about benghazi have blown this investigation wide open. my next guest fought and convinced a court to convince the white house to be more transparent and he has no intention of backing down now. the director of research and investigations at judicial watch chris farrell, good evening, thanks for being with us. your organization is seeking even more documents from this administration after having
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gotten that ben rhodes e-mail. where do they stand right now? >> we filed dozens of freedom of information act requests with various agencies, the justice department, other agencies. four cases in litigation. the one case in particular against state that produced these smoking gun e-mail that tie the benghazi cover-up directly back to the white house. back to ben rhodes, on the national security staff. just one of the four and there's more to come. we have a production schedule that has been ordered by a federal judge. so stay tuned. more documents coming. >> and you know, there is an e-mail that was circulated at the highest levels of the white house about fox news reporting on benghazi that is being withheld by the starl. what can you tell us about that? >> sure. in fact, there are seven pages
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relating to this one fox news report. clearly, you folks set off alarm bells in the white house because your colleague, katherine reported that within 24 hours, the white house knew exactly what the deal was. in benghazi. in fact, we have e-mail that show by 4:48 in the afternoon of september 11, they knew precisely what was going on with killed and wounded in benghazi. but the white house e-mail exchange back and forth concerning this one fox news report clearly demonstrates, they were in panic mode in the white house. they were trying to shape a response to come one an answer, bullet points, talking points to knock down your reporting. >> and you know, the idea that they would circumvent the truth and clearly, congress had asked for some of these e-mails and didn't get them. and you had to go to a federal judge to get the court to rule on that. what does it tell but this
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administration? >> well, they will only abide by transparency when it is compelled by law. you know, congress, what they're doing, the five committees previously, we're looking at this as a political issue. it was political theater. we operate and the reason we're much more successful getting. we operate under the law. then also allows us to go to court and compel the government to produce records. and the government agencies, the government attorneys are not going to lie to the court. they're not going to, there is just greater strength and effort behind our work by using the law in court to compel production versus the political operation with the senate. >> i'm sorry to cut off the end of your statement. these lawsuits still take a long time. i mean, your request was almost a year ago or a little more than that. >> that is correct.
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the legal process grinds slowly. it is very tedious work. but it is necessary work. and we don't give up and we don't forget. we pursue these cases for a year sometimes. but it is our aggressive legal action that forces the records to be produced. and we're proud to do it. >> and i expect that it is a certain respect for your credibility that you are winning these cases. how much more do you think is to come, chris? >> there are literally thousands of documents due to us. so you know, the difference i think in the records that we get versus the records congress has been able to get is quite telling. it points to conditions and circumstances, both in the justice department and the white house that quite frankly are very disturbing. it really enhances or increases the perception of a cover-up. >> very quickly, chris, are
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there sanctions for the handing over of requested information to congress that is different than the information that is forced or ordered by a court? i mean, what can you do? it sounds like this goes on all the time. is that correct? or is it worse now? >> unfortunately it does. the obama administration talks about it being the most transparent administration in history. quite the contrary. they are obstructionists and highly secretive. they go far beyond anything in any previous administration. >> very interesting. >> the tough part is, you know, they present one story and they do quite another. >> yeah. and you are bringing that information to the american public. chris, thanks so much. >> thank you, judge. >> and coming up, select committees in the so who is losing sleep over the prospect of going on the hot seat? we'll some time?
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with me now, former attorney michael mukasey and former judge, it is good to have you back. >> good to be back. >> let's talk about this select committee. how will this committee be different than the ones that nancy pelosi is complaining about? >> well, putting aside nancy pelosi as the source of the complaints, the committees will be different from the others because this committee will be different from the others because they were pursuing particular oversight functions within their limited area. this committee, a select committee is looking into what happened in benghazi before, during and after. that's the mandate and it cuts across all the jurisdictional lines of the other committees. >> so if you're on one committee, you may not have the
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right to continue to move into an area that would complete the story or the facts as we should know them. this committee, if the democrats make a decision to boycould the the committee, the republicans still go forward, right? >> absolutely. the soviets walked out of the general security council. and a lot of good work got done in their absence. so that's the analogy i would draw. >> and the fact this seven members of the select committee, headed by tray gowdy who i have tremendous respect for, lawyers, u.s. attorneys, west point people, harvard people. this is one sharp committee. >> right. and they have to commit themselves in advance. and i think they're in the process of doing that. to conducting a serious investigation. tell everybody what they want answers to and trey gowdy did that in front of the cameras. and make sure that's the kind of investigation they run. not just a show.
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>> right, right. so do you think judge, that they will ask one person or have one person question a witness? or do you think all seven of them will question a witness? >> i think each of them -- >> or 7-5. >> they may very well divide up the responsibility among themselves and they're going to have an opportunity to do that. so you don't get duplicative questions. you'll have one person question about one topic and another person question about another. they'll have the option, i think, of getting outside council to help them dig up the facts. and plan out the examinations. >> and do you believe that hillary clinton will be subpoenaed? >> i certainly hope so. >> why? >> because she has yet to respond to what the content was of her telephone call with the president at 10:00 on september 11. why she did not respond to a request for additional security by her ambassador.
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why that, as you pointed out in your opening, why benghazi was essentially the last installation that was, that remained open after the british had left and the red cross had left and we had already been attacked. all of those questions. >> clearly the secretary of state is responsible for developing and implementing security for the protection of all u.s. government personnel on official duty abroad. it sounds like a dereliction of duty. >> it would be nice to know where the story about the video originated and how it originated and why it was many days later over the coffins of those coming back from benghazi, she talked about the video and promised the family that they would arrest the guy who made it. that's the only promise they've kept. it was an outrageous thing to do. >> having said that, no one has been arrested. the fbi gets there three weeks later. >> and we know who these people
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are. >> yes, we do. >> at least one was providing interviews to the press. we know who they are. why haven't they been taken into custody? >> it makes wonder what's going on. at the end, what are the options at the end? they issue a report. they say what happens. do they have any powers beyond that? can they direct t attorney general to do something? perjury, whatever? >> no, they can't. if somebody commits perjury in front of the committee they can refer to it a prosecutor. yes, they can issue a report. we have a political process in this country and ultimately it is the american people who will have to respond with outrage if outrage is called for. >> all right. judge mukasey, always good to have you on the show. >> good to be here. >> and coming up, she's back! monica lewinsky resurfaces in a controversial "vanity fair" article. what will it may not for the clintons and the we've never sold a house before.
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live from america's news headquarters, tensions running high in eastern ukraine. voters preparing to go to the poll in two regions. fire barricades are blocking some city streets question facing voters do they want to declare sovereign peoples' republic? and we know two victims in the hot air balloon crash in virginia. university of richmond saying they worked for the womans' basketball program one was the director of operations and the other, assistant coach. searchers found two bodies but won't say which ones the balloon caught fire and crashed on friday after hitting a power line. for latest headlines log on to
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fox oil. back to "justice" with judge jeanine. now to fast justice. she was 14. he was 18. he raped her at her own high school while she repeatedly said no and pleaded for him to stop. he was convicted. the sentence? 45 days. now there is a reason 50% of rape victims don't report the crime. fear that they won't be believed. fear that they'll be revictimized by an insensitive criminal justice system. and fear that the uraniumist will be acquitted, assuming he is even charged in the first place, free to prey on her again. the judge, judge jeanine howard, charged her as a promiscuous young girl and already had a child and essentially deserved it. the truth, the young girl never
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had a child. judge howard, a little primer here. your judge as a sentence jg in a rape case, one of the most heinous crimes in our so-called civilized society, is to sentence a convicted rapist. you do not trash the victim. you do not veer from the objective sentencing by saying that the convicted criminal is not your typical sex offender. and by the way, tell us how you describe a typical sex offender so we can all make sure we stay away from them. and judge jeanine, you didn't just revictimize this 14-year-old girl. you single handedly traumatized every rape victim who is hesitant to come forward because of people like you and those who unfortunately will be future rape victims. i hate that we both have the same name. change yours because i'm not changing mine. and the second fast justice case, widow eileen batista in
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pennsylvania, owned and lived in a house worth almost $300,000. the irs gets a court order for the sale of her home it is and auctioned off for half of its value. a judge ruled that all was legal and that the tax bureau complied with notification requirements. so how much money did eileen owe the irs? $6.30. really? she lost over $100,000 because she owed $6? the irs needs to worry more about their own people not paying their taxes than a widow who owes them $6. but then again, we have a double standard in this country. when irs employees don't pay their own taxes, they get bonuses. that's not what i call equal justice. and this week we find out that bill and hillary were in full
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fledge attack mode on former white house intern monica lewinsky after word came out about the president's affair. in a justice exclusive, i spoke with former republican congressman judge james roggin who was a key player in the impeachment trial of bill clinton. the superior court judge in california today but in 1998 and 1999, you held a unique place in american history. sitting in congress and indeed one of the house managers on the impeachment of bill clinton. can you tell us what it was like back then? >> it was really a surreal experience. being in the middle of a presidential impeachment, i realized the first day we walked into the senate to try the case that there was nobody alive on the planet who had ever seen one of these things happen before. the last one was in 1868. the difficulty we had was that we could never get through either in the main stream media
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at the time or even with the senate that precluded us from ever calling a single witness in the trial. why the house of representatives actually impeached bill clinton. it was a very frustrating experience if for no other reason, that. >> but at the time you were a congressman. you were in the house. the house had already voted to impeach. are you saying that the house had not heard from monica lewinsky? >> the house had not heard from monica lewinsky, although we had a report from the special prosecutor who had interviewed her extensively. her lawyer had her under wraps at the time. we wanted to bring her in as a witness in the trial. the sentence not only would not let us bring her in as a witness, they wouldn't let us call any witnesses. i think the first trial in american history where the prosecutors were told, put on a trial but we won't let you call a single witness. >> let me ask you, you're in a room with monica lewinsky and you have written about the fact that you thought that she was, you know, very much a victim of
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white house spin at that point. and that there was some point, a unique change in the, in the focus on monica once the dress came out. >> i was really surprised, actually. i was in the room with her when she was deposed. i was not the one taking the deposition. i went into that room really feeling sorry for her. here was a young kid that went to work at the white house and ended up in this actually horrible international story. if you read her interview that's coming out in "vanity fair," it was really a great tragedy. it was clear even though the white house when word of her got out, went out of their way to try to treat her like she was a stalker and to smear her in the press. once it became known that she had biological evidence to back up her story, they went into full blown reverse and did everything they could to court her and as our chief investigator said, get her in
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the bag for the white house. -- >> what do you mean to court her. what was the white house doing? >> they are doing everything they could behind the scenes to keep her as a friendly witness. >> what did you think of monica lewinsky? you indicated you had a certain am of sympathy for her. was she smart, savvy, streetwise? vulnerable? an intern? how did you see her? >> she struck me as all of those things. again i'm talking about her back then. she had been dragged through an awful lot. i wasn't quite sure what to expect but i perceived her to be very smart, very savvy and you know, very poised. >> and at the end, as you look back at this, the role that the white house played and the allegation that bill clinton had attempted to get her to lie and indeed did get her to lie in an affidavit in one of the sexual harassment cases. how did you look at the
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president? >> i guess the great frustration i had, it is a linger frustration but i don't len it haunt me. america still doesn't know why president clinton was impeached. everybody believes, they think president clinton was impeached because he had an affair with this girl. nothing could be further from the truth. if the house of representatives, including five democrats by the way who voted to impeach a president of their own party had not impeached him and set a press deny that felony perjury and felony obstruction of justice were not impeachable offenses, we would have set a precedent for every future president that they could commit those crimes and not face impeachment. >> with the thought of the clintons being back in the white house, how does that make you feel? >> well, first, i'm only here as a former congressman. i'm not here in my capacity as a. judge and since you mention it, because i am a judge, i can't weigh in on political events. but i'm sure that the american
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people take everything into consideration when they look at their candidates and they pick the person that they think is best qualified. how is that for a political answer? >> it was great. and i didn't expect a real answer from you any way, judge. >> i didn't want to have dead air time here with you. >> judge, thank you very much for being with us and sharing what was a very important place in american history. >> thank you. it was an honor to be with you. and coming up, i go and coming up, i go one-on-one with the one and when you sat down to dinner with anticipation, not hesitation.
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monica lewinsky is back in the spotlight this week saying in "vanity fair," it is time to burn the beret and the blue dress. meanwhile rumor has it that bubba might come out with a public apology to monica and hillary. good evening, ann, why do you think she chose now to bury the dress and burn the beret? >> i suspect "vanity fair" has something to do with it. and "vanity fair" would never publish anything that is harmful to a democrat. so they had to get it out there. i give a lot of college speeches and kids, the speeches were 1-year-old when monica and
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clinton, the scandal broke. >> one of my friends was a doctor. he will me one of his young patients did not believe him when he will her that president clinton got oral sex from an intern in the oval office. she said you're lying. you're making that up. and he said google it. you're in for a surprise. >> if "vanity fair" does it at this time to benefit hillary or the democrats. >> get it out there. >> i would add to the great james rogan said in your fabulous former segment. it is not just that president clinton object stricted justice and committed perjury. obviously that was the main thing. it is not just that five democrats voted that way. the entire supreme court including the justices who were appointed by bill clinton boycotted his next state of the union address and there is a reason for that. we can't have a legal system if you can just obstruct justice and ask people to perjure. they. i noticed during that time i was very involved.
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i wrote the book high crime and misdemeanors arguing for his impeachment. i noticed whatever their politics were, lawyers, unless they wanth to be on have the have the and would go on and defend him. that was like league an o.j. lawyer. lawyers across the board were beside themselves with anger over what clinton had done even if they voted for him and supported his policies. you cannot obstruct justice. >> i want to go with the personal piece. so what you've got is monica lewinsky, 21 years old at the time she had this affair with the president. and it wasn't just one time. he was buying her gifts. there was a whole thing going on. one of the things, she said that feminists failed her. >> a little stronger than that. they targeted her. as nina wrote in the new yorker, i give bill clinton a oral sex
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myself using a slang term for keeping abortion legal. that was the position of the feminist movement. gloria stein said he groped her once, that he took no for an answer. so gloria is introducing the one free grope rule? >> it is almost as if, sexual harassment is okay. make no mistake. i don't care if she agreed or not. she is 21, a college intern. he is the president of the united states. if that isn't sexual harassment, whether she thinks that she agreed to it or not, and then, you know, they talk about a war on women. and this is an area where you've got a young girl who is impressionable and whose life has been destroyed. should it have been? >> yes. it was horrible, what happened to her and i do feel sorry for her and particularly what she writes about. she was young and stupid and vulnerable. for her to come out and say as
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if it is an excuse for him, this was absolutely consensual. we knew that. you're young, he's the president. and by the way, that whole story, technically the paula jones story where he as governor calls this young aide up, drops his pants and says kiss it. it pulled a thread. could we leap ahead to juanita broderick? abc news concluded after a years long investigation that bill clinton raped juanita broderick. >> does this benefit or hurt hillary clinton in. >> i think it does not help her. i think the media thinks it help her. they seem to think she's a victim. we must letting her president. i don't think most americans think that. >> that doesn't follow. >> always good to have you on the show. coming up, the latest on the danger to the u.s. power grid. will washington ever do what's needed to protect us? and it is your last chance to vote in the insta-poll. what lesson do you wish w car!
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another week and another congressional hearing on the vulnerability of our u.s. power grid, which we already know. still no action from lawmakers to actually try to protect us. what is it going to take to get something done? with me former secretary of defense and president of the center for security policy, frank gaffney. good evening, frank. you want to tell me what these people in washington do all day? >> well, they do a lot of things. i think you're right to call attention to the hearing that took place this week because when they were doing that, it was in stark contrast to the one
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you attended last month in the senate in the sense that you had a serious group of legislators and witnesses talking about a serious problem. specifically, the vulnerability of the grid which was made clear is very real, that it could be catastrophic for the country if god forbid either enemies take advantage of it or a solar storm causes it to be seriously disrupted if not destroyed. that was in contrast to what they did on the senate side. you ask what are they doing over there? as you know, you saw it yourself. the subject was supposed to be keeping the lights on and instead the focus seemed to be keeping us in the dark. very refreshing change in the house. >> it was embarrassing. senator landrieu in the senate conducts this hearing, saying
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basically, how did the public find out about this? and yet on the opposite side in the house, we have mike mccall from homeland security which will help us hopefully going forward. >> this is really important because it was a subcommittee hearing. the homeland security committee. the chairman of the full committee doesn't generally attend these subcommittee hearings. mike mccall made a point of coming to this one both to make a personal statement about the fact that he thinks this is important. then he actually made a statement to the effect that he thinks this could make all of the other kinds of problems that we're worrying about pale by comparison. as you understand and have done so much to help illuminate, this is a nation-threatening danger. i think he was there in part and he was attesting to the importance of this legislation
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that would make the electromagnetic pulse threats a -- specifically emp, a planning scenario for the department of homeland security. imagine, it isn't today. he's behind getting it out of committee. and i think pete sessions has cosponsored. he will, i think, make sure it gets to and through the floor. then maybe we can start getting something done. >> the shame of this thing is that there are so many other countries who have a strength in grid. we, supposedly the most powerful country in the world don't. when you talk about fred sessions and waxman and markey, and trent franks, pete sessions, i should say, then you have to look at someone like fred upton who is chairman of the house committee, who gets most of his
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contribution from energy companies and lobbyists, a one-time grid supporter who is preventing bills from coming up for a vote. what can the public do in a scenario like this? >> precisely what you're doing, getting smart about it. we have a website, i would commend them. fred upton has been in the past a supporter of some of this legislation. at this point, he has not let it out of this committee. not this critical infrastructure protection act but something called the shield act now. we need his help in getting this also enacted because at the moment, what's really missing, judge, is the engagement of the electronic utilities who you think have as much at stake to fix the vulnerabilities of their infrastructure and thereby
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ensure all the others work as well. >> and insta-poll results, what do you wish politicians' mothers taught them. sharon says, tell the truth, keep your pants zipped. and finally, i want to wish my mom happy mother's day. that's me and my mom and my baby. happy mother's day to all of you. way! i'm like, what is this, a drainpipe slipknot? wherever your business takes you, you can se money with progressive commercial auto. [ sighs ] [ flo speaking japanese ] [ shouting in japanese ] we work wherever you work. now, that's progressive. call or click today.
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electric th the nsa, a secret agency in crisis. some politicians are exasperated. new their credibility is seriously in doubt. the public is skeptical. >> we stand for freedom. >> and the press keeps pressing. >> mass surveillance, bulk collection of information. >> we talk to the nsa's strongest critics. and its staunchest defenders. >> snowden has engineered the greatestem


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