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tv   Happening Now  FOX News  October 20, 2014 8:00am-9:01am PDT

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>> pretty busy for a monday. a lot going on. 15 days to the big election. bill: how was your weekend? martha. great, how was yours? bill: phenomenal. martha: see you on "the kelly file." i will be back here tomorrow. bye, guys. jon: the u.s. military taking a major step in the battle to defeat isis. airdropping weapons to kurdish fighters on the front lines in syria. good morning to you. i'm jon scott. >> i'm shannon bream in for jenna lee today. our c-130 cargo planes dropping weapons, ammunition and medical supplies to the outgunned troops in kobani where they have been locked in a weeks long battle for control of that keyboarder city. this effort comes after 11 new coalition airstrikes on isis targets there. jon: our greg palkot is live near the turkish-syrian border
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where he has been covering this story for weeks now. greg? >> reporter: jon, for those weeks we've been hearing from the kurdish defenders they have been begging for weapons, ammunition and fighters in their battle with isis. they could now be getting them. the immediate help coming in the form of those airdrops. 27 bundles of guns and supplies, dropped we're told by locals to the west of the city where kurds hold territory. now they're being brought to the militia staging areas. that's right, u.s. also helping out with airstrikes. we saw two hit the city this afternoon. we're told several hit overnight after the airdrops. also to the west, perhaps covering the kurds as they retrieved weapons which include by the way, anti-take guns we are told. and they could be very useful against the heavily-armed terrorists. also, it could be very significant. turkey's foreign minister today announcing that his country would allow and facilitate kurdish peshmerga fighters from iraq to come and help the fight.
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we have spent time with them this past summer. they are very good. they could be very helpful in this fight. we must also say they're very busy fighting their own fight with isis over in iraq. all of this could be a very big about face for turkey which has been resisting helping the kurds in kobani for weeks now. it does come after a phone conversation between president obama and turkish president erdogan this past weekend and a lot of world pressure on turkey to act. now we'll see if the parties deliver, if the parties take advantage of the opportunity and they end what has looking like a very deadly stalemate right now. back to you, jon, shannon. jon: greg palkot, reporting live from the turkey-syria border. greg, thank you. >> well some good news for friend and family at the center of an ebola diagnosis in texas. after 21 days of monitoring them for the disease, doctors clearing dozens of people who had contact with thomas duncan before he died including those
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who lived in and apartment with him. cdc expected to release new guidelines for health care workers treating ebola patients. john roberts tracking this live in atlanta. hi, john. >> reporter: good morning to you, shannon. big relief for 43 of 48 people contacts of thomas duncan before he went into the hospital. they're either out of quarantine or off the active monitoring list. it includes family members of duncan including his fiance, who had praise for the two nurses, nina pham and amber vinson who both fell ill after treating him in texas presbyterian hospital. in dallas, officials said, amber vinson should not have flown from ohio to dallas last monday. but the fault was not hers. the judge blamed cdc scientists who did not check with policymakers in dallas. >> from the moment i found out that she got on that flight, that was a mistake and that
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caused her problems. it caused panic in our community. it caused people to miss school. it caused a lot of overreaction. it was a mistake and we apologize. >> reporter: that was earlier today. centers for disease control expected to come up with new guidelines for protective gear for health care workers to wear when they meet a suspected ebola patient t will include guidelines very close to what is being implemented in west africa and big ebola treatments there. covered head to toe, no exposed skin and a buddy system to make sure people put on and take off the protective gear properly. at the highest levels of the cdc there are discussions whether it might be prudent to limit travel from west africa to the united states. now they do not support a travel ban but there is talk about potentially limiting either the number or type of visas that are given to people in west africa to come to the united states. shannon? >> john, thank you so much.
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the world health organization saying the ebola outbreak in nigeria is officially over. the health agency describing the country's containment of deadly disease as quote, a spectacular success story. nigeria had 20 confirmed cases of ebola including eight deaths. this comes after the world health organization that said that the country made it through a critical 42-day period without any new cases. jon: let's talk some politics now. 15 days to the midterm elections and right now both democratic and republican national leaders predict their party will walk away with a majority in the senate when all is said and done. >> absolutely. i think we feel really good about our chances taking the senate and partly because, number one the president is taking the country in the wrong direction. >> we'll hold the senate and we'll hold the senate because over next couple of weeks and leading up to the even today, the one question that voters are going to ask themselves, chris, who has my back.
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>> it will be a sprint to the finish line for sure. fox news counts 10 battleground states, many of these races will go down to election night and may be even longer than that. joining us now, chris wilson, republican pollster and former executive director of the texas republican party. emily sussman is director of center for american progress action fund and former executive director of you america. thanks both of you for being here. which one of you is the most optimistic? emily, let's start with you. will you hold the senate, your party. >> we can start with me. i do believe the democrats are going to hold the senate. there are a number of competitive races. you named 10. i say eight are in that category of highly competitive. we really aren't seeing national issues this year the way we have in the past couple of years. and when we look at generic ballot information just came out this morning, the democrats are up by four points on a generic ballot. of course this is all going to come down to gotv.
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get out the vote. who feels passionate enough to vote. it can come down to the wire. jon: chris, what about that? republicans voters are said to be more energized, do see it that way? >> they are energized i agree with emily it a little bit it comes to get-out-the-vote. if the someone shows at polls sad and depressed counts as much as happy and excited. jon: democrats are said to be very good getting out their voters? >> they really are. 2012 proved that. it did. but i would say, if you look at, want to know what will happen on election day, you look at spending decisions, right now democrats are moving their money into races nobody even thought would be competitive at beginning of cycle. they're having to move money into new hampshire. moving money into minnesota. creating a firewall strategy. i've been on both side after firewall strategy. i was on wrong side in 2006 it is not a fun thing to be a part of. looking at spending decisions and looking at what democrats moving out of, challenger seats,
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open seat races, and they're trying to protect their incumbents. that shows the truth behind this is, they're hoping to just keep their incumbents from losing. that is not a good place to be for democrats. jon: emily, you said, emily there aren't national issues being voted on this time but i mean, isn't the obama administration overall, isn't that kind of the elephant in the room when it comes to how people are going to vote? >> that certainly is one piece of it. but many of these races are focused on local issues. look at north carolina where the republican challenger there had massive cuts to education. that is definitely on the ballot. i don't also push back saying that democrats are only trying to hold incumbents here. republicans are doing a quite a bit holding on themselves in states pernever been competitive. kentucky, kansas, south dakota. these are states republicans thought they had in the bag. suddenly the reason democrats are going to strong in them, they are actually winnable.
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jon: what about that, chris? is there any -- >> democrats pulled all of spending out of kentucky. north carolina, the problem with emily's assertion that barack obama disagrees with her. he said his policies are on the ballot. that really does not help. if you look at kentucky, the democrats pulled out of kentucky after alison lundergan grimes wouldn't even say she voted for obama for election or re-election. that is really problem democrats have to do. they're fighting back against the obama wave. i've been on the wrong side of. that it is not a fun place to be. it is really not a good place for your candidates to be. democrats are really hoping that republican candidates do things like commit gaffs or do something stupid. it is not happening. we have stronger candidates. stronger campaigns than in the past. only argument takes place how far above 51 republicans get. it will be a good couple weeks. i'm not arguing that based on the fact that there is more enthusiasm. just based on the campaigns and candidates that republicans put forth this year i think probably
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best crop of candidates they produced in a long time. jon: chris wilson, emily tish sussman. we'll see what happens in 16 days. if we know by then. there are projections we might not. >> thank you. >> thank you. heather: >> one major development in the case of missing uva student hannah graham. why police called off a month-long search and what investigators and her family are now waiting to learn. we're live in charlottesville, virginia. plus a patient treated by paramedics takes off in the ambulance. how that wild ride ended is next.
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shannon: right now a check on some crime stories we're following. a patient in california taken into custody after police say he stole an ambulance and led police on a wild chase that ended with him crashing into a minivan. police say the man described as a mental patient was being treated by paramedics before he hopped in and took off. two passengers in the minivan
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suffered minor injuries. no one else was hurt. search on for an inmate from california who escaped prison. the 57-year-old convict serving eight years for burglary was driving a stolen van. before officers could identify him he took off and ran away into wooded area. the jody arias sentencing retrial is set for tomorrow. she is being was convicted of for the 2008 murderer of her boyfriend but jurors couldn't come to a sentence. this is expected to take two months. jon: big day on wall street after crazy days that definitely impacted your 401(k). the dow is down 31 points. as more than a third of dow component companies are set to release earnings reports this week. joining us from our sister network, fox business is dagen mcdowell. it has been an ugly october as october can be. >> i know yesterday was the anniversary of the stock market crash, october 19th.
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thankfully the markets were closed. stocks down four weeks in a row. definitely a big comeback on friday but what is really going on are the wild swings you're skiing even during the day last wednesday. the dow is down more than 460 points at one point. and then came back some, still ended down 173. today all of this is ibm. ibm pulled its profit goal and also see as slowdown in consumer spending but big picture a lot of what's going on, stocks are priced for perfection or they're not producing the kind of growth that they're prices is. i point to an example last week on thursday. netflix, its subscriber growth numbers came up short and that stock lost almost 1/5 of its value in a day. jon: wow. >> it fell almost 20%. when a stock is expensive that's what can happen to it. jon: we still don't have a great employment situation in this country. if people aren't, you know, able
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to go to work, earn a paycheck, they will not spend stuff on these companies provide. >> you know whose economy is worse than ours? europe. europe is at verge of another recession. so there is spillover concern into the united states markets from there. i want, i do want to point out apple reports its earnings after the close today. that is a huge, that is a biggie of course. the stock isn't down that much though from its all-time high in early september. it is down maybe 4%. so there's, you, you have to watch for those numbers. jon: they have been selling that iphone 6 and 6 plus. the expectation on that if you're interested, because i'm a nerd, here you go. jon: okay. >> 37.41 million iphones expected to be to be sold. more than half of revenue comes from iphone sales alone. jon: wow! wow. we're closing in on november. we're about what, 10 days away. if we get out of october with our skins intact are we going to -- >> do not invest based on the
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calendar. i do not believe in that. i think stocks, given how much interest rates have fallen, stocks look good. you know what is a great sign though? oil has fallen so much. gasoline national average, $3.10 a gallon. based from the high in april, about $500 less a year on gasoline. jon: if you're not spending 70 or 80 bucks to fill up your tank you have money to do other things with which is nice. >> it could be a great holiday shopping season. jon: look for something from me under your tree. >> right. okay. you promised. >> all right. >> thanks, jon. jon: dagen mcdowell, thank you. don't miss dagen on the fox business network. if you're not sure where to find it in your area, log on to foxbusiness.com/channel finder. shannon: secretary of state john kerry says it would be quote, irresponsible if we didn't support kurdish forces locked in a do-or-die struggle for kobani. coming up we'll break down why one of our allies, turkey, has so many major objections to
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weapons drops in syria. the search for a suspected cop killer in the remote pennsylvania woods. word of a scythe of that suspect. are they closer to finding him? >> they had night vision goggles being, looking across the woods across the street. i asked what was going on. they go, there was a spotting. ameriprise asked people a simple question: in retirement, will you have enough money to live life on your terms?
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we do? i took the trash out. i know. and thank you so much for that. i think we should get a medicare supplement insurance plan. right now? [ male announcer ] whether you're new to medicare or not, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. it's up to you to pay the difference. so think about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement insurance plans,
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they help cover some of what medicare doesn't pay and could really save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. call now. with a medicare supplement plan, you'll be able to stay with your doctor. oh, you know, i love that guy. mm-hmm. [ male announcer ] these types of plans let you visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. and there are no networks. you do your push-ups today? prepare to be amazed. [ male announcer ] don't wait. call today to request your free decision guide and find the aarp medicare supplement plan to go the distance with you. go long. jon: search efforts in nepal officially end today. rescue crews say they are wrapping up operations after all the hikers believe stranded on popular trekking route after a series of deadly blizzards and avalanches all of those hikers are rescued and safe. this comes after crews recovered bodies of 43 people including trekkers from nepal, canada,
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india, israel, slovakia, poland and japan. they were killed when the deadly storm swept through the himalayas last week. shannon: u.s. supply drops to kurdish fighters in kobani, syria, happening against the wishes of our nato ally, turkey. they use ad government kurdish group fighting in syria, the extension of pkk, that stage ad insurgency inside of turkey for decades. secretary of state john kerry notified the kurds about the supply drop yesterday, saying it would be irresponsible not to support them in struggle to capture the kurdish city of kobani. peter brookes, former assistant second of defense. good to see you. >> good to see you too. shannon: this is so complicated. on the surface everybody says isis is bad. the rest of the world needs to get rid of these guys to unite in the fight. there are so many different allegiances, alliances, and enemies in that region it makes it tough.
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we've gone ahead done the drops to kurdish fighters desperately asking for our support. turkey not happy about it. where do we go from here? i would think it is in turkey's self-interest as close as kobani is to the border that that isn't overrun. >> yeah, turkey is playing hard ball. they're a problematic partner. you called them a nato ally but in this case they have really been a problem. some of their interests, shannon, are different than ours. as you mentioned they're very worried about the kurds. idea that we're supporting kurds who have been fighting in turkey for 30 years. now of course not all of those kurds are pkk. the other thing is that they want more focus on the bashar al-assad regime. the government in damascus they want them gone and don't see the current policy in the united states as dealing with that. i would say we have maybe a policy for iraq. we really don't have a policy for syria. they're worried about messing with the islamic state.
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remember a couple weeks ago the islamic state held nearly 50 turks they had to negotiate with to get them back. so when i also think that, you know there is a number of other concerns on the part of turkey that you know, keeps them, you know, as a difficult ally or partner of the united states in dealing with this issue in the region. shannon: i can't imagine, regardless of all the complications there, of course turkey not wanting to support a group that is insurgent, that connection to pkk which is classified as a terror group by the u.s. and by nato. >> yes. shannon: i can understand that. but when you look at isis moving into your country, it is a very. it has made no secret of. that i can't imagine it is not the worse of the two evils if we're looking at pkk or its affiliate versus isis? >> right. well of course they're looking for leverage. the turks want the united states to create a buffer zone, a no-fly zone which is, has humanitarian element to it but also has an anti-assad element
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to it. so they're really kind of holding out hoping that the united states will collapse and give them what they want. so the turks even though their house next door is on fire they're not as worried about it as a lot of other people in the region. i think we're in the negotiating stage. they haven't even given us access to their airfields for our use in syria. we're bombing more in syria than we are in iraq today. they're playing hard ball with us with the hopes that the administration will collapse and give in to their demand for participating in operation. shannon: what are the odds you think that will happen? there again, the complication of dealing with assad and something that was a red line years ago and the u.s. caving on that. what are the odds that the u.s. caves now to president erdogan, his demands essentially? >> right. shannon: you want to deal with isis you have to give us everything else? >> i think they have to consider it, which is unfortunate. you really want your friend to work with you and compromise and forthcoming and giving on these
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sort of issues especially in the critical stage. the political optics are very difficult for the administration. i think internally they're thinking very much about turkey' demands for the no-fly zone. which is difficult to do because syria has a very capable air defense system. also this humanitarian corridor. if you noticed today, shannon, that the united states said they airdropped kurdish supplies to the kurdish fighters in kobani, but, we are seeing the turks giving a little bit in that there is breaking news they're allowing iraqi kurds to go fight with the forces, their syrian brethren and, in kobani. so we're seeing some sort of movement but the administration has to be considering other options because they need, i think they need turkey. shannon: we noticed that very careful wording in the release from centcom. >> yes. shannon: peter brookes, always great to see you. thank you. >> thank you. jon: some sad news out of virginia where police say they
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have found human remains that could be those of missing uva student hannah graham. those remains were found just miles from where the body of another virginia college student was found in a case linked to the same suspect. the latest on the investigations coming up. after growing calls to act in the media, president obama names an ebola czar to coordinate the nation's response to the deadly virus. are flight restrictions next? [ narrator ] mama sherman and the legion of super fans.
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shannon: the case of missing college student hannah graham potentially now a death investigation. police calling off a more than months-long search for the university of virginia student after human remains were found this weekend. leland vittert is live with the very latest on this case. >> reporter: hi, shannon. police are holding any information very close to the vest, although they've told us to not expect any confirmation from the state medal examiner -- medical examiner any time today. where i'm standing is about where she was last seen, 10 miles from are here as the you flies is where this body was found in a dried-out creek bed yesterday. searchers were out there once again looking through, seeing if they could find anything in these dense woods of virginia. they won't confirm, though, whether the body they found is that of the missing uva sophomore, although they have called off their search, and they have also notified her
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parents of the grim discovery. and police know this area well. it was about five years ago in the same area they found the body of morgan harrington, another college student who disappeared after a metallica concert never to be heard from again. and the forensics in the harrington case also match the same suspect in the hannah graham case, that being jesse matthews, this man who has been arrested and charged in the abduction of that graham but -- hannah graham but so far has not been charged with murder. obviously, that could change. i too long a drive out to the -- i took a drive out to the area. to call it dark and desolate would be an understatement. you can see just how rural this area is and how difficult it is for searchers to make their way through it. obviously, that's what they're doing right now. also important to note this is the same area of virginia that jesse matthew grew up in, we're told his mother had a house not far from here, so this was an area he would have known very,
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very well. here in charlottesville you really get a sense there is a loss of innocence here as it relates to the hannah graham case and the sense of safety and security here as one person just said to me, he said they are really glad it is over, many people really hope this is hannah's body if for no other reason than to bring closure to her family even if it's in the worst possible way. shannon: regardless of the end game, they wanted to know where she was. leland, thank you so much for keeping us updated. ♪ ♪ jon: president obama's point man on ebola begins a big job this week. the president picking ron complain, a former -- ron klain, a former chief of staff to vice presidents al gore and joe biden as his so-called ebola czar after calls for the obama administration to do more about ebola. so let's talk about the job ahead and how he'll be treated. juan williams is a columnist for
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the hill and byron york is chief political correspondent for the washington examiner and a fox news contributor. juan, do you welcome ron klain's appointment? >> you know, initially i was not enthusiastic about it, jon, because i was hoping that someone with direct medical experience, but then the white house has made the case that they have, you know, enough doctor cans, they have not only dr. freeze been -- frieden, they have people like dr. fauci at nih and others who bring medical experience to the table. they wanted someone who was a management expert, is their argument. my sense is, though, it looks political, and i think it plays into what has now become a political circus in advance of the midterm rexes. jon: -- elections. well, byron, everybody wants this guy to succeed. nobody wants to see an ebola outbreak in this country. what about the pressure he is under taking this jobsome. >> well, i hi it was kind of a congressional media complex of
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pressure. basically, a number of lawmakers on capitol hill, mostly republicans, said that there should be a czar, and then those, you know, those calls got magnified, amplified in the press, and then finally the president said, you know, you want a czar? okay, i'll give you a czar. and i don't think it makes very much difference. it's kind of adding one little layer of bureaucracy because ron klain will not report directly to the president, he'll report to two other officials, lisa monaco and susan rice. and it seems unlikely that it would actually make a lot of difference. and by the way, the experience that the white house cited, you know, juan just mentioned that he doesn't have medical experience, the white house cited as qualifications is that klain actually helped direct the stimulus, happening out billions of dollars, and -- handing out billions of dollars, and that's their case for him. jon: yeah. juan, now that the press has sort of helped drive the appointment of this ebola czar,
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there also have been calls, as you know, loud calls for a ban on travel from the afflicted countries. is that what's coming next? >> well, i guess if they continue in this mode. i mean, obviously, the i think the temperature's going to get tamped down a little bit as fewer and fewer people become infected. we know today, you know, the waiting period on family who had direct contact with the first victim, mr. duncan, expired. no one else has become infected. i think some of the pressure might be going down, jon. but right now it's, like, close to 70% of the american public says why not put a ban? it just seems like common sense. although the medical professionals all say that would simply worsen the situation in west africa and a worsened situation there poses a greater threat to the united states. but in the political context, you're exactly right. so are we ramping up now if the white house is canceling the president's trips, appointing a czar to play to the donald trumps of the world who say we
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need a czar, will they also imose a travel ban? again, potentially, especially since some democratic candidates fearing that they could lose votes by not supporting a ban are saying, okay, we'll give you what you want. to me, this is playing to mob passion, it's not very attractive. jon: yeah. i mentioned last week, byron, this was a president who was swept into office saying that, you know, government can do it all, government can handle all of the ills facing the nation. given, given the, i don't know, shattering, i guess, of public confidence over the way this thing has been handled by appointing ron klain, does the president sort of distance himself from the handling of the ebola crisis and say, okay, it's his baby now? >> not a bit. i don't think that really happens. i think you're right, the public has, actually, i think had two big worries. one, it seemed like no one was really in charge, and the other thing it seemed like the public was not being given the straight story about this.
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at one point the cdc was saying we're going to stop ebola in its track, and at another point they were saying, well, we need to reconsider this. the administration that stayed pretty firm against a travel ban. my guess is if we have no more cases coming into the united states, then they'll stick with that position. one more case like thomas eric duncan, one more arrival unexpected of ebola into the united states, i think the president will cave, and there will be a travel ban. jon: yeah. they're talking about, juan, the possibility of almost a million and a half people in africa being infected as this thing, as this thing percolates along. that's an awfully scary number when you consider even the relatively few people who come here from places like liberia. >> yeah. and i think that's what byron said is right. i think anything right now that shifts the dynamic again back in the direction of alert and fear and, i think, plays to the political argument coming especially from the right that, oh, this is a problem with the obama administration and
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competence and all that, anything that does that then forces the white house's hand. and i think that's why the media has been complicit in this. i think media left and right has been playing this story to a fair three well, but it's had tremendous political impact because we're in the election season. so suddenly medical decisions, even management decisions about how we get supplies out, how we get warnings out, train nurses, all political, and anything right now can shake up the outcome of a midterm election that you know is very close. jon: worth pointing out, about 14 west african countries have instituted their own travel bans. so worth noting. juan williams, byron york, thank you both. >> thank you. shannon: two christian ministers told they're going to face jail time and fines if they refuse to perform a same-sex marriage ceremony. what about the ministers' religious freedom and freedom of speech? plus, the big break in the search for eric green wanted --
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feign, why investigators are putting so much stock in a brand new hot tip, next. ♪ [ male announcer ] when you see everyone in america almost every day, you notice a few things. like the fact that you're pretty attached to these. ok, really attached. and that's alright. because we'll text you when your package is on the way. we're even expanding sunday package delivery. yes, sunday.
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shannon: let's check out what's ahead on "outnumbered" at the top of the hour. what you got coming up? >> hi, shannon. the nation's top disease expert admitting the administration overstated how ready we were for ebola, and now the cdc announcing new guidelines for hospitals to teal with the led -- to deal with the deadly virus. >> plus, rudy giuliani expected to join a massive protest today against what some call art and others call terrorist propaganda. >> and a school changes a nursery rhyme we all know the kids have sung since the 1700s, but is it really racist and sexist, or is this political correctness gone way too far? >> plus our hashtag one lucky guy number at the top of the hour. be there, we're coming for you.
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shannon: see you then, ladies, thanks. jon: new developments right now in the hunt for eric freen, the suspect in a deadly police ambush. a woman claims she saw a muddy-faced man with a rifle who matches frein's description. pennsylvania state police are taking her tip very seriously. >> this was a very close-up sighting. the individual that reported it had great detail, and so our investigators believe that this was likely frein. >> nobody's going to stop until we find this individual and he's apprehended. jon: the sighting was right near the high school frein attended. over the weekend, police and the fbi beefed up searches this that season, he stands accused of killing brian dixson and wounding trooper alex douglas during the ambush at tate police
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barracks. investigators believe he has been hide anything the woods ever since that deadly attack last month. shannon: a new federal lawsuit over same-sex marriage. this one focuses on religious freedom after two ordained christian ministers were told they're going to face fines and jail time because they declined to officiate at a same-sex marriage ceremony. the ministers, a husband and wife both in their 60s, run a wedding chapel in idaho right across the street from the county clerk's office where you get your license to get married. joining us now, ladies, this is a tricky one, but the officials are saying now that the federal circuit has struck down the ban on same-sex marriage, that their local ordnance which says you can't discriminate against anyone mean, heather, these two have to do the weddings or else it's 80 days in -- 180 days in jail and $1,000 per day they won't do the ceremony. >> they have a first amendment argument, they have an expression of religion argument,
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they have a substantive due process argument because they're losing money. the problem is, though, that there is an exception for religious societies and associates. because they are charging for their marriages, they fall outside that exception, and so they are the ones that are going to be subject to this law x they may have some difficulty fighting it because of that. shannon: jonna, they say this is a wedding chapel, that each wedding ceremony they perform they talk about god, they quote the bible, every couple gets cds of sermons about how to have a long-lasting marriage, and it's all based on biblical principles. for them it's a chapel, and it's religion based. >> absolutely. and that's why the first amendment going to win this one. it's a sensitive issue. we have to let the first amendment prevail over this local ordnance, essentially, which is the issue here. you know, and i likened it to a couple of things. if you took the religious aspect out, if the first amendment weren't an issue and these people said no shirt, no shoes,
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no heterosexual ideology, no service, they would be subject to this ordnance and could go to jail and get fined. but the religious aspect gives these people a first amendment right to say, look, we're not going to marry you any more than we would marry somebody outside of our own religion even if they were a heterosexual. shannon: so how do you put in the context of the christian photographers who said it was their expression when they did photography, hay didn't want to be -- they didn't want to be part of sending a message, and we've seen the bakeries who say i'll bake you a cake for anything except a same-sex ceremony. >> it starts to become the court's job to determine who's more strongly felt in their religion. here you've got actual ministers who are doing a religious rite, so i think they're going to have a much stronger argument under the first amendment. it doesn't just cover what you say, it's what you choose not to say as well. and so they are going to have a much stronger argument than, say, the florists or the bakers.
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at the same time, though, i think a lot of those cases you will see go up on appeals because in this issue in the wake of the hobby lobby case that just recenently came down s not going to end here. it's going to go up further to further courts. shannon: and there's established case law for things, you mentioned speech, you can't force students to say, for instance, the pledge of allegiance, you can't force people to have a driver's license plate that has a message that they don't want to endorse. do you think, jonna, that speech will be the key here? >> i think religion's going to be more of the key than speech, but you also are to remember that even though same-sex proponents are making great headway, it's still not the law of the land. we're only up at about 30 states where you can legally get married. once it is the law of the land if that's where we go, then i think this issue will become a little bit more difficult for the ministers to argue. but let's look at it this way, hey, if you are -- if you only want to marry same-sex couples,
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you should be able to do that too. zap zap yeah. you might have a budding business in idaho. people who want that specific wedding. >> and the free market should decide. ultimately, that is what's at work here. the free market should decide so people can boycott them. if they have a problem with it, then don't go there, boycott them. but the free market should decide. shannon: do you think we'll ultimately come to a balance? the pendulum when things are happening and there's movement, it swings greatly in both directions, but do you think we'll settle to a place where in this case where you have ministers here, it'll be unequivocal? i have a feeling there's going to be a whole lot of attention on this case. they've asked for a restraining order against enforcement. these folks go one week without doing it, it's three and a half years in jail and $7,000 in fines. >> and that's insane is. if i were going to marry somebody and the minister didn't want to marry me because she didn't like my shoes -- >> which would never happen. [laughter] >> but i would simply go
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someplace else. shannon: that wants your business. all right. well, we'll see. good to see you both and have our legal eagles weigh in. jon? jon: and i like your shoes, jonna. >> thank you, jon, thank you. shannon: but he's not going to marry you. [laughter] jon: this was billed as the challenge of a lifetime, and that's exactly what it turned out to be. a look at my attempt to reach the roof of africa. my climb up mount kilimanjaro in tanzania, next. look at all these children.
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they all lost their lives because of preventable medical errors, now the third leading cause of death. only heart disease and cancer take more lives. proposition 46 will save lives with drug and alcohol testing to make sure impaired doctors don't treat someone you love. safeguards against prescription drug abuse. and holds the medical industry accountable for mistakes.
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i'm barbara boxer. let's save lives. vote yes on 46.
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i'm just looking over the company bills.up? is that what we pay for internet? yup. dsl is about 90 bucks a month. that's funny, for that price with comcast business, i think you get like 50 megabits. wow that's fast. personally, i prefer a slow internet. there is something about the sweet meditative glow of a loading website. don't listen to the naysayer. switch to comcast business today and get 50 megabits per second for $89.95. comcast business. built for business. jon: last week i mentioned i was just back from tanzania, a journal think that really began last spring when i received an e-mail from compassion international that i've long supported asking whether some of us would like to try to climb the tallest eak in africa to raise funds for a clean water
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project. they billed it as a life-changing experience, and perhaps the challenge of a lifetime. both of those turned out to be true. ♪ ♪ jon: it is a place of startling contrast, of stunning natural beauty rich in wildlife and resources yet burdened with staggering poverty. we would see both in abundance. my past trips to africa have always been on assignment. this time i wanted to take in the wildlife. in tanzania we would encounter virtually every animal we hoped to see, including the rare black rhino as well as a lioness and her three cubs who just wanted to find a little shade and managed to create quite a traffic jam. even our down time was fascinating. while our guides entered us into crater national park, i hung out with some of the locals.
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after three days of exploring down low, we had a higher calling; to trek to the roof of africa, mount kilimanjaro, at more than 19, 330 feet, the tallest free-standing mountain in the world. this resulted from three distinct volcanos that blew their tops over time. twenty-four of us came from across the u.s. to attempt the climb. we began about 6,000 feet above sea level. and we're underway. our guides chose this route on the north side of kilimanjaro because generally the weather is drier. that soon becomes obvious. one of the things that strikes me about this trial is this sol tannic soil is like talcum powder. every time you step down, it puffs up. we passed the huts of local farmers trying to eke a living out of the soil and continued to an altitude of about 8500 feet where our porters have set up our first camp. on day two we climb above the
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trees and into the fog, a mostly dreary day spent enveloped in clouds trying to get a handle on where we are. finally at lunchtime, a break and a view of "all rocks. it is not as tall, but i'm glad we're not climbing it. this just a couple of days we hope to be atop that 19,000-foot mountain, and we have many miles and about 8,000 vertical feet to go. so that's it for part one. shannon: jeez, that was -- i want to get on the next plane. i mean, that's amazing. jon: if you want to fly 17 hours to an miss -- tanzania, you can enjoy. but in a couple of hours, i'll show you part two. about 1:50 eastern time we'll have the rest of that. shannon: can't wait to see it. thanks, jon. here is what we're working on in our second hour of "happening now." police find human remains in the search for missing virginia college student, how this
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discovery impacts the suspect linked to the death of another young woman. and one heroic rescue caught on tape you do not want to miss.
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>> shannon and i will see you here in one hour. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> this is "outnumbered." here today, one lucky guy joining us from our sister network, fox business network and he's outnumbered. >> what did i get myself into? >> sandra brought some reinforcements today. business channel domination. >> i like it. >> we'll explain why women like men better as bosses. i can't wait. >> fantastic. bring it. >> that's a good one. let the games begin. great to have you. and

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