tv FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX News January 11, 2015 11:00pm-12:01am PST
of reputation over regulation any day. that's our show. this week. see you next week. >> we have the latest on the attacks in paris and from margin dempsey. >> how frustrating as you from the chairman of the script chiefs when you are fighting in such a way? what do we know about the suspects? their strategy to hit the west? and whether they were directed by al-qaeda or isis? general martin ditchty only on fox news sunday. >> plus is obama administration doing enough to prevent attacks like this in the united states?
our sunday group ways in. >> a showdown between the white house and congress over the keystone xl pipeline. >> i can confirm if it passes this congress, the president who not seen it. >> threatening to veto a jobs and infrastructure minutes of taking the oath is anything but roddive. >> we will discuss keystone xl pipeline and the veto threat with two leading senators, republic john hogan and democrat all right now on fox news paris remains on high alert after three days of savage attacks by islamic jihadists. we will have an interview with the chairman of joint chiefs of staff in a moment. but we begin with fox team coverage. chief intelligence correspondent on how the terrorists were radicalized. but, first, greg palkot is in
paris with the latest. greg? >> there was a massive march of unity against terror here today after a terrible and deadly week. hundreds of thousands taking to the streets close to 50 world leaders and officials present including united states attorney general holder here for a summit on terrorism. the massive security presence with over 5,000 troops and police on patrol amid reports of threats of more attack as police continue their probe of the indepth that left 17 dead including three suspected terrorists. they have let some of the suspects go but the hunt is on if the rhyme suspect in this case: hayat boumeddiene the partner and believed she could have been an accomplice in the shooting of a police woman and hostage taking in killing at the kosher supermarket now feared she has fled to syria and could
have been out of the country when all of it happened. amid new information in the last few minutes about him. police are confirming to fox he could be tied to yet another shooting on the very same day of the slaughter around the newspaper office which left 12 dead. involved in that, were kouachi claiming allegiance to al-qaeda and he claimed allegiance to isis leading the french foreign minister to stay this: it is a war against terrorism, against jihadism and against radical islam and against everything that is aimed at breaking fraternity, freedom, and solidarity. that is a message resonating here. chris? >> greg palkot reporting from paris. >> nance was held hostage for 54 hours and it only raises new
questions of how safe the united states homeland is. we bring in catherine. >> a new video from isis showing the suspects who took the hostages at kosher supermarket pledging allegiance to the islamic state. according to a translation the video including clips of coulibali discussing the massacre and fox has learned the f.b.i. is reviewing a different isis propaganda tape that calls on the followers to target intelligence informations and police and civilians. the credibility is being assessed by united states law enforcement. republican chairman of the house homeland security committee running his own investigation says the paris attack is a departure from recent lots in canada australia and the up. >> now we are seeing someone, the foreign fighters with have
been concern about, this would appear to be a concerted attack. >> if a rare interview with a german newspaper the head of the against intelligence agency michael flynn said the terrorists are part of a larger network and he believes they were hand selected for the attack. this morning the white house announced a summit in 15 on encountering violence extremism or radical islamic terrorism. >> thank you. now, our exclusive interview with general martin dempsey. i met with the top military officer at the pentagon on friday. we talked while the two hostage stand offs in paris were still going on. we discuss that and the range of other national security challenges. >> welcome to fox news sunday. let's start with the terrible attack on the newspaper in paris. how much training did the two
brothers get in the middle east terror training? was this attack directed either by al qaeda or by isis? these victims were inspired in some way -- they were probably not self radicalized on the internet which is another way the attacks sometimes occur. there is a clear indication one of them did, in fact, receive training in yemen. there is a link among them whether it is schools or family relationships. as far as whether it was directed by al qaeda, why think that link has been established. >> what can you in the military do to prevent attacks like this in the united states? do we need to step up our effort s against a q.a.p. or isis and does it contradict president obama's contention we have al-qaeda on the run. >> fundamentally our capabilities are designed so the
country can play an away game against the adversaries so a we try to do across this swath of radical extremism that develops, really, from the the fattah and to nigeriania we try to keep on that whether it is intelligence offering partners or direct action. >> do we need to do more? >> i think so. absolutely. that is not to imply we not doing enough. if you understand the distinction. we are doing a lot. i think this organization called isil are inspiring groups that already exist to rebeen themselves but in rebeening themselves they rebrand themselves into a more radical ideology so that makes it dangerous. >> this would seem to be to be the definition of asymmetric
warfare, you can have a handful of gunmen who can terrorize and lockdown a great city like paris and a country like san france. how frustrating as change of the joint chiefs when you are fighting in such a way? that is the definition of terrorism. it is a group that looks the advantages of those who they are attacking and we are the most powerful military and most powerful nation in the world so as a result of that we tend to be a target for groups and i would not say it is asymmetric but it is a combination of using say symmetric capability whether it is in the media space cyber some of our intelligence and in some cases conventional. >> how do we do if the war against isis in pushing it back from the territory they took the last area and in destroying
them? >> what i said from the start is a group that embraces such a radical ideology has to maintain momentum in order to succeed, in order to maintain credibility with the very people it is trying to influence. tactically we have destroyed at the-their equipment and reversed their territory gains and impacted their leadership and command-and-control and logistics. what will cause the get of isil is it will collapse under its own contradictions when the populations in which it tries to ma never realize that ideology is not to their future benefit. i will tell you, we have nine lines of effort counter tents ifing, counter messaging, reconstruction, three military lanes of effort that tend to get all of the attention. i will say the other lines of effort could be more important than the military lanes of
effort. >> remember has drawn a pretty firm line no united states combat boots on the crown -- ground in iraq you have refuseed to take that off the table of the the iraqi army talks about taking over mosul. can though do that without united states combat troops? >> here is the reality in iraq it is the government of iraq's strategy enable by us not our strategy. that is an extraordinarily important distinction. we think that will be months -- i don't know whether self -- several, it could take longer -- to marshall the different resources. >> do we need united states troops? >> wrote know the answer. i have said that. if we get to the point because of the complexity of the object ive precision fires would only be possible with the
presence of a failure oner i will page that recommendation but we are months away. >> turning to syria. you say we can't defeat sis just with air stranges but with the syrian moderate remember peoples suffering such serious losses in recent backs, is there going to be any moderate syrian opposition to train or confront sisson the ground? that is a fair question. that is a question we grapple william the syrian opposition is under enormous pressure particularly in the north where i have my greatest concern of the ability to attract and recruit and vet a moderate opposition. >> militarily don't you have on confront assad and his attacks on the moderate rebels or you will not have a force to oppose isis? >> my job is to provide the president and our elected leaders the option they choose to con front assad and that
decision has not been taken. >> we could do it if you were given the order. of course. >> we just inned our combat role in afghanistan and on christmas day president obama addressed troops in hawaii. he told them this. >> afghanistan has a chance to rebuild their own country. we are safer. it will not be a source of terrorist attacks again. >> how can the president say that so flatly that afghanistan will not be the source of terrorists attacks? >> you have to ask the president how he can say that. >> would you say that? >> if you ask me -- let me give you my impression of afghanistan. we have a a credible and cooperative partner if the new executive officer and we have afghanistan security forces would have demonstrated will ifs to stand and fight. i personally think will be pockets inside of afghanistan that containing hands from time to time. that is the history of the country. we are in a very if place in
afghanistan in terms of giving them a can to do exactly what the president said and we will have to keep an eye on. >> you would not say the threat of terrorism from afghanistan is on. >> the chairman of the joint chiefs as the seen director military leader of the nation tens to be rather cautious and careful and he also tends to be paranoid and terrorism can ebb and flow. it may not be there now and it could be there tomorrow. we have to key an eye on this we have to recognized terrorism flows where instability lurks. >> the military times acts active service member how they thought the commander in chief was doing his job and 55 percent say they did not approve of president obama's performance and only 15 percent said yes the lowest number of his presidency. why do, in your opinion so many service member have doubts? would i tell the troops when i travel the commander in chief
supports their efforts and i can tell them with great confidence that he takes -- this is the issue of whether or not i'm being micromanaged. >> it is not justify the troops on the ground but the two last secretaries of defense pa meat -- panetta and gates criticizes the white house for micromanaging, jumping the chain of command and emphasizing politics over policy. are they right? >> am i being micromanaged? question? >> that is one of the questions. >> if you ask me if i am micromanaged. i better check with the white house before i 18 the question. look, it is the wrong met trouble in defining the relationship between the military and our elected leaders. i can tell you the metric we should be focused on is access and whether my advice is influencing the decisions. i have frequent access to the
commander in chief. i feel no constraints in providing my advise to him and my advice over the past 3 1/2 years has influenced his decisions. whether someone wants to characterize the desire, the insatiable appetite for information on complex issues as micromanaging, they can have that. for me the metric is access and advise. >> last secretary of defense hagel was upset with what he said was white house pressure to release more prisoners from guantanamo. you have to sign off or give a recommendation on every prisoner released. given that some of the prisoners that are last new are the waste of the worst -- are the worst of the worst the most dangerous and the number of detainees who are released and return to the battlefield is around 30 percent do you worry this white house is in too much of a hurry to close?
i have been in the group that believes it is in our national interest to "close," guantanamo. it creates a psychological scar on our national values. whether it should or not, it does. i have also said there are some of these detain yeses particularly this kind of conflict over a protracted period that should not be released. we will reach a point where we have dozens of the individuals would have to be detained. we have to figure that out. >> you would not release them? >> of course not. >> if you can't release them and the united states congress says you cannot bring them to this country. >> isn't that a fair question for our elected leaders. >> doesn't that mean you have to keep gitmo open? that is a policy decision. there will be dozens of these individuals who have to be detain. our elected officials need to find a way to detain them.
>> in iran you say a diplomatic solution is preferrable but if the talks fall apart can we contain a nuclear alarm or do we have to launch a knack strike and could we take out the nuclear program? >> if the diplomacy fails and they move ahead to acquire nuclear weapon we have been clear that will be unacceptable risk to both our own country and, also, to the region and we have military capability if place and we continue to keep them in ready notice to if asked, to eliminate. delay is the right raise, iran's nuclear program. >> what have you learned of cyber lets of the north korean hacking of sony? how vulnerable are we to to a cyber pearl harbour? >> it can be disruptive, disrupt, and destroy. it can destroy hardware and it can disable critical
infrastructure that could lead to loss of life and those capabilities are out there. in every domain we enjoy a significant military advantage but we have peer competitors in cyber. >> in other words we don't have an advantage? >> we don't have an advantage. it is a level laying feed. that makes this chairman very uncomfortable. >> what do you think of vladimir putin? >> i try not to render my opinion about heads of state. can i speak to you about russia? i think russia is on a provocative and dangerousç path. i called my counterpart if russia and i said to him, you know, we began our careers 40 years ago facing off across the intra german border and i said don't tell me we are going to do
it is time now for our sunday group, with karl rove and fox news political analyst juan williams. george, sit back for a moment. what strikes you about this week? about the trained terror cells in the heart of american -- in the heart of western capitals and their ability to perilize a great difficult like paris? >> what happened at the magazine was terrible and terrifying. it is terrorism as we normally understood it. it is usually understood to be random violence. this is not random but assassination. they knew where they were going would would be there --.
>> let me interrupt there is live picture from paris with all of the world leaders on the streets of paris now part of the mass demonstration, more than a million people ranging from french president hollande to germ chancellor merkel and you can see muslim leaders israeli prime minister binyamin netanyahu and all participating and bear witness to the events of the week. george? >> this could disrupt an entire city, a modern city, modern society depends on flow, cooperation and trust. we have seen how the two car accident can close a four lane superhighway delaying 10,000 vehicles. that is the nature of modern society and that is where randomness comes in destroying trust that weapons things moving. when you talked with general dempsey about cyberterrorism, he said that is the level playing field. they are as capable as we are.
we saw what a few clicks after rogue computer did to a bank, destroying a century's old bank and we know what bombers achieved in world war ii can be achieved by cyber attack. >> president obama, i think, it is fair to say has always been a bit ambivalent about the war on tore -- terror. he has launched nor drone strikes and took down osama bin laden but he resists on the other hand calling it a war on terror. he resists calling out islamic jihadist and i have to go back to may of 20 attorney when he made a big speech and talked about taking this country off what he called a "perpetual wartime situation." >> the afghan war is ending. for al qaeda it is a shell of its former self. groups must be dealt with but in the years to come not every collection of thugs that label themselves "al-qaeda," will pose a credible threat to the
united states. >> is there any sense from the white house that the president was premature in either saying this is over or, at least winding down? >> there was a political incentive for the management to emphasize things such as core al qaeda being decimated and the death of osama bin laden. when he wrote say this, the advisors would say we are still concerned about the other groups. it is striking to hear the clip from may of 2013 we are in a different climate than we were at that minute. that was at a time when most americans had not heard of islamic state group and maybe we heard about other groups that were not at the forefront of our minds. some of this is driven by politics to get the united states out of the middle east get us out of afghanistan and largely put the war on terror to rest. obviously he has not been able to do that and you will see the white house cop tending with this for the next two careers.
>> this happened in paris, it did fought happen here. why are critics of the president like you going after the way that he is conducting the war on terror? >> you heard general dempsey talk about our strategy the last 15 years which is to fight them there so we they have less opportunity to fight us here. >> the away game. >> the away game. exactly. the president's early withdrawal from iraq leaving behind no significant residual first allowed isil isis to spread dramatically across the northern and western parts of the face. we may face the same situation in afghanistan. we are keeping behind a residual force, the new afghan government desperately wents us to but we diminish that to bagram, the one airbase so we cannot project our fire on rapid notice. we will be down to one.
the great of the recruiting tools of isis was the rapid video because of the vacuum the united states contributed to in iraq and we need to recognize our presence this is necessary to keep fighting. >> it is interesting because i talked to dempsey he said that the military aspects of this, talking about nine lines of effort the nonmilitary aspects including messaging and social media and egyptian president gave a remarkable speech this weak. it was undercover. he called on muslim clerics to led a religious revolution pens extremism. we asked you for questions for the panel and we got this on facebook "how do we combat islamic fundamentalists terrorists combat a belief system without replace lag and without islamic clerics leading
the way." juan, how do you answer that? >> walt is right. and they need to celebrate worldwide because his message needs to be amplified by the american government, by all western governments who are fighting. >> it has to be the west against islam? you have to have leaders in the muslim world and we are talking about leaders of state would have been reluctant to get involved in the fight but, also the clerics, at the basic level speaking to young people the look at the young people who did the best bombing the young people here the brothers, a number of young people feel that "charlie hebdo" be pushing an antimuslim fervor that exists in france and germany antiimmigrant and antimuslim and what you gets then, is the clerics finding that they cannot criminal what is coming across. you are talking with the john abut -- the john about the
recruiting efforts making the young people feel they are empowered by the violence and the bullies -- they are bullies things -- they use the religion to justify the acts of violence. that has to be stopped by other muslims, moderate muslims who say the cartoonist in seattle that has been in hiding because of a threat against her life for drawing a caricature of mohammed that is not allowed by the clerics, not supported and not the actions of a good muslim. >> final thoughts? >> the head of the egyptian state occupies an office once occupied by sadat would was murdered by islamic extremives for his opening to israel an act of tremendous bravery and if the nobel peace prize committee is looking for someone who deserves it they could start there. >> it will be interesting to see
>> president obama is under new treasure to decide the fate on the keystone xl pipeline and the senate is set to approve the project after passing the house with bipartisan barn support and perhaps the biggest reason to delay just disappeared. but the president is sticking to the veto threat. we brought in two key senators officer north dakota, a leading sponsor of the keystone xl pipeline approval and from
delaware democratic would opposes the project. senators, welcome to fox news sunday. >> last month, the president said this was one big issue delaying a decision on keystone xl pipeline and here it is. >> you have a nebraska judge that is determining whether the new path for this pipeline is appropriate and when that is resolved the state department will have all of the information it needs to make its decision. >> now on friday the nebraska supreme court threw out the challenge to the pipeline but senator, the white house still says that it is -- the president is going to veto a bill when it gets through congress as it is expected and he will send it back to the state department for more months of review and this process has been going on for six areas. >> the process has taken a while and it was put on hold while nebraska citizens were asserting their rights in nebraska court but two things happened on friday.
first the nebraska court came to a final decision but, second the house of representatives took up and passed the keystone xl pipeline pipeline bill that takes conisderation out of the hands of the administration and we should note there were enough folks voting against that in the house of representatives it is clear there will not be a veto override so my hope as this comes to the senate we will take it up, we will not everright the president's coming veto and we will move past this issue and toward the real debate about what americans want. an energy policy that includes droving good jobs, american innovation and infrastructure and energy independence that does not hurt or environment. >> senator why do you think the president keeps dragging his out? six years and, now more review at the state department. to get directly to the point that senator coons brought up, you will pass it and send it to the president, will you have 67 votes in the senate to override
the president's veto? >> as to what is the president doing, actions speak louder thanrd withs. he delayed the roth for six years and americans won world war ii in less than six years so he is trying to defeat the project with endless delays which is why it is important that congress act. as far as getting it passed and overriding a veto we go back to the merits. it is about america and jobs and economic growth and increasing the g.d.p. $3.4 billion and it is about national security by achieving energy security. look you have an overwhelming majority of the public that wants this done. the latest fox poll on this issue, 68 percent of americans want the keystone xl pipeline pipeline built and every state seven states have approved it and the only thing holding it up is president obama. >> let me ask a direct question do you at this one moment have the 67 votes to override the veto? >> we have 63 but we are going
to the floor with an open amendment process trying to foster more bipartisanship getting the senate to work the way it is supposed to work so pass this measure and other measures and override the veto or attach the bill to other legislation that will get 67 votes. >> senator coons in 2013 you voted for an amendment approving the pipeline and now obviously you are against it. has this become more about politics than it has the merits of the roth? >> to be clear on an up-or-down vote taking approval of the pipe line out of current administration process i voted no. you are referring to a budget process that wasn't directly on approving the keystone xl pipeline pipe line. >> let me -- ask that question because it was the amendment approving the pipeline. >> that was the report. again, we have a bipartisan majority in the congress.
i am popeful we can have an open amendment process and convince people to look to the merits and get this done after more than six years the. >> the issues on keystone xl pipeline have been debated for years and after the mid-term elections, robe did a pretty good john of laying out the issues. here they are. >> is this going to be good for the american people? will it be if for their pocketbook? will it create jobs? will it reduce gas prices that have been coming down? is it going to be, net, something that doesn't increase climate change that we have to deal with. >> senator he laid it out. what does keystone xl pipeline mean in terms of energy, in terms of the environment and jobs? >> keystone xl pipeline means unlock the canadian tar sands the most dirty sources of energy in the planet and allow the oil to reach our economy and the environment. >> i will stop you there. your response?
>> we import oil from venezuela that is high or highers greenhouse gas emissions and we have oil in california that has higher emissions. why do you think surface lower? because we are producing more energy and getting more energy from canada, not because opec gave us a christmas friend. americans want to produce the energy at home. >> canadian crude is already being shipped in this country by rail or by truck. doesn't that have a larger carbon footprint than the pipeline? >> folk in my state and across our country are concerned about the safety of so company rail cars and of building through pipelines and they should be concerned about the public safety and the remain mission implication. the senator is talking about 70 percent of americans want, 70 percent of americans in a recent national poll also said they want a carbon tax or they want the epa to be able to regulate carbon dioxide. a majority of americans want is clean energy jobs improving our environment, and growing good
construction jobs and ad if eastern energy policy. >> let me interrupt you this. that has been one of the big issues, theç jobs. there is talk it will create 42,000 jobs and that is only temporary jobs and at the love those are the coffee shop that the person who is working at the pipeline goes to get his coffee. how many jobs would this really create? the environmental impact statement prepared by the obama administration says 42,000 jobs are supported by this project and $3.4 billion g.d.p. increase and $8 billion project. tell the families that are getting the paychecks those aren't good jobs. construction jobs are good johns. >> construction jobs are good jobs and i want to see us move forward in infrastructure and in energy innovation but we can do it with a clean energy future. there are 50,000 peoples would jobs right now in construction and in manufacturing and the wind industry are hanging on whether congress in a bipartisan way can extend the wind tax credit. there are 400,000 jobs in
biofuels. we can make many more good construction and manufacturing jobs with an all of the above energy strategy. >> to have the energy plan and energy security for the country we want we need the infrastructure to go with it and the environmental impact statement done by the obama administration says no significant environmental impact the i have to get that. >> they reached that conclusion assuming $100 barrel oil and now it has backed to the agency of the last 20 years $50 a barrel, different context. >> what about that, the far county that oil prices are dropping does that many we don't need the pipeline? if we want to continue to work with canada rather than get energy from opec, we have to be competitive and we need the infrastructure. we have to build the business climate to create the investments to create more energy at home. more important than ever. >> i worry about the environmental climate as well as the business climate. >> in the few seconds we have
remaining, senator coons, you were sworn in for a term and congratulations this week, you can see in this video it went viral of joe biden whispering in your daughter's ear and giving her a kiss, a lot of people thought she looked uncomfortable, what was he saying to her? i have to ask, a lot of people have been speculating, does she think the vice president is creepy? she don't think the vice president is creepy. he is known my kids their whole lives the joe was being thoughtful leaning forward, he was leaning forward and whispering encouragement to her about when hes with sworn in and his daughter was 13 she felt awkward and uncomfortable and he encouraged her to get through a day with a lot of cameras and folks and he was being joe, thoughtful. >> how does she feel aboutening the star? surprised that more people have heard of her than have heard of me. >> there you go.
>> a quick shout out to the north dakota state university football team, four time national champions. >> football is a big part of week. senators thank you both for coming in today. we were happy to talk about sports and votes and especially to talk about the pipeline. next, a bumpy week for bipartisanship as the any congress gets to work. will the third time be the charm for mitt romney? we will ask our sunday
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>> complaining after veto threats from the white house to the republican militiaives. we back with the panel. jawly, the white house issued three veto lets in the first day of the new congress on keystone xl pipeline and an effort to redefine the 40 hour as a full work week and obamacare and delaying financial regulations. in return that the republicans will be able to portray the president as the obstructionist in washington? you say the white house in conjunction with the video and the president last week talking about things like about things like community college, talking about dropping a more gachblg premium rate, to they were trying to offset the vetoes with some more pro active talks about preparation and tax reform. i think the dynamics we saw last week is basically how this is going to play out. you're going to have the white
to veto. i think the question will be in the opening salvo. >> what do you make of this first week of the new balance of power in washington. how did congress do with the republicans leading it? >> the republicans were quite right to emphasize keystone because it reveals four things, first it reveals the president's mask of being a scientific driven man. it's just a mask. second the president says i just want to spend on infrastructure the keystone pipeline. the president says it won't create permanent jobs. ask the people who work for block buster video until netflix came along. i believing that if we don't do
the pipeline they shrug and say let's leave the oil under the ground. it's going to be taken out of the tar sand turned into oil and shipped to fuel cars around the world period. >> before all the talk before congress and the president went back to work this week all the talk about bipartisanship, big compromise compromises, there sure was no sense this last week that anything big is going to get done. >> i don't think there's any reason that anything big is going to get done. and there's historical basis to think that when you have one party in control of capitol hill and another party at the white house. historically, there has been an increase in legislative creativity. but we live in an age of such dark polarization. i don't think you have seen the basic elements change with the republicans taking control of the hill. and this week, the whole
controversy we're discussing here. i think you have the gop debate now that we have control of the congress, we want to see them act in a greater defiance of this president that we don't like. not only on xl pipeline, but on immigration. and on obama care they want this congress, even if there's a vie veto that's going to wipe it out, they're going to have symbolic action. >> i got to switch subjects on you, because there was also some very interesting political news this week with mitt romney on friday, talking to donors and making it clear and asking them to spread the word that he is seriously considering another run for president. a couple of questions did jeb bush's aggressive moves putting out all his e-mails and now he's going to release 10 years of tax
returns. let's say it's between romney and jeb bush and chris christie of new jersey. who win sfwhs? >> that doesn't matter if jeb runs yet or not, u you have an independent decision rand paul making moves talk about scott walker. lots of conversations going on, i think it may have been all of that combined that it caused governor romney to say i'm interested again. it's a little bit mystifying in this respect. if he believes that, then we may see in the next couple of weeks some significant steps towards making a run otherwise people are going to -- filing some kind of committee that allows him to move around the country. there are a dozen different ways to do this.
it's like jeb bush releasing 50,000 e-mails. >> but you talk about all these other candidates, marco rubio and rand paul. i think the conventional wisdom is that jeb bush and mr. romney is going for the same part in terms of money in terms of organization. one is that true? and who has the advantage. >> is broadest conservative moderate center right voters, but look, different money basis one from new england one from florida, they share a lot of people, but then everybody, most people who run for president share a lot of people when they run. >> come on, carl. >> they're after you, they want your money. they're going to split the
establishment money among republicans and that opens the door to ted cruz. >> first of all, these guys are both capable of raising a lot of money, regardless of whether the other one is in a race. the second thing i would say is this, this is going to be a really unusual race from this perspective. there's no front runner. the front-runner in the -- this is when romney was not considered a candidate. the next time there's aal poll, it's going to be mitt romney at 24%. >> your thoughts about mitt versus jeb i love it that we're using first names. >> if the country is suffering dynasty fatigue this will certainly test this. because romney son of a governor and jeb bush son of everybody, as near eas i can tell. >> you think midwestern governors. >> we are out of time, thank you