tv The Kelly File FOX News May 1, 2015 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
on the streets. we really appreciate the fact you're out there for fox news tonight. >> that will do it for us tonight. i'm juan williams. thank you for watching this special edition of "the factor," baltimore, the next chapter. "the kelly file starts right now." breaking tonight a kelly file exclusive, as police attack what they call a rush to judgment. and baltimore's top attorney files charges against all six police officers involved in the arrest of freddie gray. the announcement of charges against six police officers has led to joyous celebrations in communities across this country with anti-police protesters high-fiving and supporters honking car horns. some are suggesting those protests had an impact on this case after hearing state's attorney marilyn moseby speak
directly to the demonstrators. >> i heard your call for no justice, no peace. your peace is sincerely needed as i work to deliver justice on behalf of this young man. >> justice on behalf of this young man, not just justice.u will hear tonight a baltimore police officer. he will tell us what many are saying and he will tell us why that their union attorney summed up their sentiments just this afternoon. >> we believe that the actions taken today by the state's attorney are an egregious rush to judgment and we have grave concerns about the fairness and integrity of the prosecution of our officers. >> first trace gallagher updates us on the status of these six officers.
>> marilyn mosby faulted police conduct from the moment they came in contact with freddie gray saying they had no probable cause to arrest him, did not properly secure him and ignored his pleas for medical attention. >> the finding of our comprehensive thorough and independent investigation coupled with the medical examiner's determination that mr. gray's death was a homicide which we received today, has led to us believe we have probable cause to file criminal charges. >> mosby claims freddie gray suffered his spinal injury inside the police van and police failed to follow policy to put a seat belt on him. she also said in the van's fourth stop police knew then that freddie gray was completely unresponsive yet took no action. that would undermine dante allen's statement that he heard banging as if gray was hitting his head against the walls of the van.
the officer driving the van got hit with the most serious charge second degree depraved heart murder, depraved heart means they don't have to prove he intended to kill freddie gray. officers ed yard nero and garrett miller are charged with assault. the attorney for the baltimore police officer's union responded. >> we believe that these officers be vindicated as they have done nothing wrong. i believe the publicity in this face is driving a rush to judgment and causing this prosecution to move so quickly. >> the union wants marilyn mosby to remove herself from the case because of conflicts of interest and that because her city councilman husband will have his political future impacted by the case one way or another. prosecutor mosby filed the
charges against police shortly after receiving the medical examiner's report that ruled freddie gray's death a homicide. today the police union was asked about the m.e.'s report. listen. >> they tell a reporter that the medical examiner switched the ruling on gray's death from accidental to homicide. >> i have no information about that. i have no knowledge of that. >> many baltimore residents applauded the charges against police but one saturday peace has lost its credibility, if it wasn't for the riot charges would not have been filed. now the question is will it take guilty verdicts to keep the peace? >> last night we promised you an interview with another source close to these officers now under arrest one who has
actually been working with them for years. tonight in a kelly file exclusive, a baltimore cop tells us the officer's side of the story. he asked us to call him mike and we agreed for his safety to disguise his identity. mike thank you very much for being here. you know all six officers involved in the case. how do you know them? >> i actually work with all of them. >> how many have you spoken with since the incident with freddie gray? >> i've spoken with two of them. they were actually pretty lengthy conversation. >> and they relayed to your their take on what happened with freddie gray in that van? >> they did. >> let's start with whether they told you they believed he was injured outside or inside the van? >> none of them actually have
any knowledge that he was injured until they got to the station. you know freddie is always one of those types when you go to the streets, he always puts on a show and what not. it wasn't anything out of the ordinary to them. though showed nothing about being injured until they got to the station. >> baltimore p.d. is very familiar with freddie gray they know he has a long rap sheet but it sounds like you have familiarity with him, too. >> i do i do. >> when you say he puts on a show, what do you mean? >> he always acts up out there on the streets. you know, he tries to just make a show create a disturbance, get people watching what he's doing. >> so if he were in that van and shouting or jumping up and down would that have been unusual? >> absolutely not. >> hmm. so you're telling me that these
officers believed -- they're telling you they believed that he was fine until they found out -- there were four stops with the van, the fifth was at the police station, it wasn't until they got to the fifth stop at the police station and realized that he wasn't? >> yeah that's correct. they i mean he -- apparently they were saying that he asked for his asthma pump relatively soon but, i mean it was a lengthy foot chase, which wouldn't seem out of the ordinary. but he made no indication he needed any sort of medical attention or anything. >> now, are these officers who were pursuing him or officers who were inside the van? >> as far as what? >> that we're talking to you, that we're explaining what happened. >> i was talking about since they were pursuing him. >> so these are the guys on the bike right? because there were three guys on the bike who pursued him? >> that's correct, that's correct. >> did they have any knowledge
really of what happened inside the van after they closed up the doors and the one officer drove away with freddie? >> they had no indication at all. the only thing that they told me was that as soon as they put him inside the van, he started going crazy and, you know banging his head fairly hard on the side of the wall you know trying to get their attention and the people in the neighborhood's attention. >> how did they know it was his head he was banging against the wall of the van as opposed to his elbow or anything else? could they see him? >> i mean they couldn't really -- i guess it could have been something different. you got to figure he was handcuffed behind him. i get it could have been his elbow but, they were just guessing it was his head. >> and how did they describe it? >> they just describe it as a constant like knocking you know the wagons that we use, it's pretty much a ford like
econnoline van or cheffy van yor chevy van and they put a divider and there's a bench that runs parallel that runs lengthwise of the wagon. it's pretty tight quarters in there. >> why wouldn't they have put the leg shackles on him right from the beginning and/or buckled him in right from the beginning? >> well as far as the leg shackles go i mean it's not uncommon a lot of times where especially in the city you know people are always you know don't snitch snitches snitches that type of thing out there. so people put on a show to make it seem as if they're not going to work with the police. so a lot of times when they're around their friends and what not, they're going to put on that show. but as soon as you get them isolated put them in the
vehicle, get them out of that situation, they usually for the most part calm down. so the officers didn't probably put the shackles on him because they're figuring he's going to calm down once they get him in the wagon. and as far as the seat belt i mean it's -- i mean i guess per policy you're supposed to put the seat belt on but it's unsafe for the officer to actually get inside of the wagon to put the seat belt on a suspect that's being combative, being very aggressive. there's just a potential the officer is going to get injured by doing that it's such close quarters the officer could get spit at, ear bitten different things that would make them not want to get up in that close quarters. >> when the passenger is being compliant, would the protocol be to put the seat belt on? >> the protocol is you're
supposed to put the seat belt on. but for the most part if they're compliant, the seat belt's going on them because there's really no -- i mean there's always a potential danger for the officer but the officer has a little bit more comfort being inside the back of the wagon to put the seat belt on. >> so those officers maintain that when freddie gray went into that van, he was walking of his own accord? because i understand that there's been a leaked medical examiner's report that suggests freddie gray's injury that led to his death occurred inside the van. that was the conclusion we've heard so far at least from the medical examiner. some people on the streets of baltimore have rejected that based on the limited snippets of videotape they've seen where he wasn't getting into the van. we've seen videotape where he
appears to be stepping into the van that would contradict that challenge. what did the officers tell you? >> the video shows clear evidence that he was standing and he got into the van on his own accord. he wasn't thrown into the van. he wasn't you know brutally placed into the van. he got into the van on his own accord. and, you know just something about freddie himself, going back to the snitches things freddie was one of those ones where a lot of times he would put on that show on the streets but you bring him in the station and he was a great witness. i mean he helped the department solve many crimes and different acts of violence. so it wasn't uncommon for freddie to do that type of thing and then go into the station. >> that's interesting. that's new information i had not yet heard. according to these officers, was
there any altercation between them at all in terms of putting the suspect under arrest? is did they hit him? >> absolutely not. they told me that you know they chased him because he ran and the place that he ran from it's a place where he's commonly been locked up for selling drugs out of that alley. it wouldn't surprise me that the reason that he ran was he was probably dirty, he was probably selling drugs and at no time did they say they used any use of force. >> did they say why they arrested him in the first place? they've come under criticism saying well they looked at him, he looked at them and then he ran. there's no crime for doing that. if that happened between me and a police officer, he wouldn't have the right to place me under arrest even if he found a switch blade on me which was the second part of the story. >> i mean one thing that they're taught is unprovoked
flight. he ran, which at that point you're unprovoked the police didn't throw rocks at him, the police didn't threaten him in any sort of manner. when freddie saw the police he ran, which is unprovoked flight. so the officers have every right to pursue him to find out why he was running for. just so happens that when they got to him, he had a switch blade on him. whether that's the reason he ran, you know i don't know. he could have had drugs. it's not an uncommon thing that when you know the people that are running -- if we can't find him, we can't charge him just because they ran. we have to have some sort of crime. >> what was he's he being charged with here? >> he was charged with a switch blade, i guess. but it doesn't -- my personal guess to this and this is just me speculating, is that he was committing some -- he was
distributing narcotics in that alley. >> was he known to do that in this particular area? >> oh yes. that's where he's been locked up numerous times in that exact alley. he's been locked up for distributing narcotics. >> when we come back i'll ask mike how can you be sure one of these officers did not hurt freddie. and what about that mystery stop on the way to the police station? and what is he hearing from the cop who was driving this van, the one now charged with second degree murder? all that when our kelly file exclusive continues right after this break.
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breaking tonight, we are back with our exclusive interview. a baltimore police officer who has worked with the officers for years charged in the freddie gray case and spoken with the officers now charged in his death. watch. i want to talk to you about what may have happened to freddie in that van. the emerging theory by some who are defending some of these cops that he did this to himself, that something happened inside of that van that he did this to himself, whether it was intentional or not. and then others say, really you want us to believe he severed his own spinal cord accidentally
or on purpose? do you believe that is possible? >> you know what i think it is possible that he could have done it to himself just because of his irrational behavior and how he was flailing around. and, number two, i know the person that was driving that wagon that day. and, you know that officer would not -- would not absolutely go above and beyond and actually swerve that wagon in a reckless manner or attempt to swing him around and -- >> how do you know? >> just knowing the officer. he's not going to go above and beyond. he just doesn't get angry like that. he doesn't let people bother him. i've worked with him. it's not something he would do. >> why do you think he didn't disclose the second stop
yesterday, the van had stopped a few times but they didn't disclose the second time. they saw that freddie gray was alert and talking on that second stop but why would he not have disclosed that? many have found that suspicious. >> i don't think that's something he didn't disclose. from the day that the incident happened he told me that i'm sure he disclosed it to the department. i'm guessing it's just something that they didn't release until now. >> was there any altercation at all between the driver of the van or any other officer and freddie gray on any of the stops according to the cops? >> according to what i'm told absolutely not. no. >> so when they saw him on all these stops, was he injured? was it just a shock to open up at the police station and see that he was catastrophically
injured? >> it was. at every stop freddie was talking and acting so irate and normal. it is a very short distance from where they picked up that second prisoner into the station. it is a short distance. like the other suspect, the prisoner that was in the back of the wagon on the opposite side said he was still banging his head around at that point. >> do you -- do you believe that -- well, first of all, let me back up. how do you know this? if you've only spoken to the two cops who were on the bicycles and didn't go along with the van, then how do they know there was no altercation that happened at any one of the stops and what condition freddie was in along the stops? >> i spoke with the officer that was driving the wagon as well. i spoke with three of the involved officers. >> and they maintain that he was fine on all of the stops and that it wasn't until they got to the police station that they saw he was so badly injured? >> that's correct.
>> i mean that is -- that's stunning. today the second prisoner came out and said well that "washington post" report that suggested i heard him banging his head and i thought he was trying to intentionally injure himself, "the washington post" had cited a police affidavit in support of that he said that's not true i just heard some banging and i didn't know what it was. what do you make of that attempted, you know walking back of "the washington post" report by the second prisoner? >> yeah i think that's him trying to cover up his reputation on the streets. you know with the high profile that this case has started to take on i think that's him trying to you know save himself on the streets and possible retaliation by other individuals on the streets. like i said snitches get snitches in baltimore. it's something that you don't -- it's very rare that you have these individuals that are
involved in crime and getting arrested work with the police. so for him to -- for the media to release that this is what he said i think he's trying to say, wait a minute you know i wasn't working with the police this is what i said. you're misconstruing it. >> do you know mike is there any gps or video or anything attached to this van that might help authorities figure out for themselves what happened? >> so as far as my knowledge, there is no gps to any of our patrols vehicles. the van itself it was a newer model of the wagon that we use and there was originally when the vehicle was purchased and brand new, there was an in-vehicle camera system but it didn't record. it was just strictly for the driver of the van to see what's going on in the back of the wagon. and he could also hear audio. but that equipment's been broken
for some number of years now. >> nobody was with the officer driving the van, right? he was alone? >> that's correct. >> did another officer meet him at any one of those stops? there were reports that one or two may have. >> well when they pulled over the first time to put the leg irons, there was obviously more individuals there to help place him in the restraints. and then there was also another officer that did meet him at that second stop. one of the officers that is suspended right now as well. and then obviously there was the officers that had to help the third person arrested. so there was an officer at every stop. >> and did any of them ever enter the van to your knowledge? >> i'm not sure about that. >> do you know if the second prisoner was seat belted in? >> i'm not sure about that to be honest. >> how did they describe the condition of freddie gray when they saw him at the police
station, when he-the-realizethey realized he had been hurt? >> apparently when they got to the police station and they opened up the door, they saw him laying on the ground. they are calling his name trying to see whether he was just playing or what was up. at some point an officer entered the back of the wagon to see why he wasn't responding which is when they found out he was unresponsive. >> hmm. did they describe their reaction at that moment? >> that's when they immediately called for an ambulance and they were just shocked that something could happen like this. >> what are they going through now? >> you know they're a great group of officers and, you know they have hearts of gold and the
one i know is personally taking it extremely difficult. >> do they have family? >> oh yeah they do. and it's affecting their entire families too. you know the one, i know he personally -- he wants to move and change career fields in general just because the way that the department has left him out to dry. >> do you feel that? do they feel like the department has hung them out to dry? the answer to that when we come back. and also mike with some strong words for the mayor in this crisis. plus i'll ask him who he blames for the riots we've seen and what is likely to happen next as the baltimore police department deals with the fallout as we watch protests tonight in baltimore and new york city and beyond. don't miss what's next right after this very short break.
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>> they do. and i think the whole feel of the entire department at this point, the command staff that originally came in from oakland and california has just been you know from the officer standpoint they feel as if you know the officers are guilty until proven innocent. and this command staff doesn't ever got to bat for them. as soon as an accusation is made they're immediately on the public side. and that's the issue that a lot of officers have is that even once the officers aren't cleared, a lot of times the command doesn't go and actually clear it up to the public. so this whole time the public is still thinking that they did this even though you know it's something that they didn't do. and this has happened on numerous occasions. and the feel in the department at this point is the current command is out to get everybody. >> when you say the command, help us those are us not in the baltimore p.d.
did you mean commissioner bats? who do you mean? >> commissioner bats and commissioner rodriguez, who is no longer with the agency. >> what about the mayor? what do you make of her reaction to all of this? >> i think it's a disgrace in how she's left -- you know i think she's left the police department and the officers out to dry as well. you know it's -- it's -- it's just the way that she's handled this whole situation, you know claim that she's going to get justice for freddie, i'm sure that she's informed of the facts that are being found before the public and i'm sure she's right along with the investigation and still continue and go out there and, you know, in a sense betray the officers and say you're going to get justice. it's a tragedy what happened to them but i think at some point the record needs to be set straight and these officers need
to you know, be set straight and these taken down because they didn't do anything wrong. >> you're saying she knows that the officers did not wrong and yet she says we're going to get justice for freddie gray not just justice, not justice for all involved but justice for freddie gray presuming that he is the wronged party, the victim and the only victim here? >> yeah. i mean i'm only presuming that you know as the mayor i'm sure she is having an interaction with the police commissioner daily and i'm sure information is getting passed that's not being passed to the public. so i can only assume that she does know more about this investigation than we do. and just for her to go out and proclaim that she wants justice for freddie gray and what about the officers that you know the
community is hanging out to dry and her and the command staff, commissioner betsts that are hanging out to dry. >> let's talk about the response in baltimore. what were your instructions on monday night? first of all, were you surprised the mayor did not institute a curfew on monday when we had seen protests all day? >> absolutely. this goes back to monday and incidents that had occurred in ferguson. there were still localized protesting going on in reference to ferguson and stuff. it was nothing like what's going on with baltimore. they were peaceful. it started then. at that point they were told you know we were given specific instructions don't arrest anybody, don't, you know if they spit at you, if they're doing things to you, you need to
be pulled off the line if you're going to lose your cool we're not going to make an arrest we're going to let them destroy property and do these minor crimes and we're not going to do anything. >> who said that? >> that wa from whoever had roll call at the time when i was most likely at the time it was a lieutenant colonel or above. so it was a higher ranking official. in the previous -- the first set of protests i didn't. did you when this one started happening, the localized event on freddie gray that happened in baltimore, it was outrageous things being thrown at officers all these officers were getting injured but they didn't want us to do anything. the department was extremely unprepared. >> what were you guys saying to one another? we watched the videotape, we watched it live when people were throwing cement bricks at the at the police and firefighters who
are there to try to protect the community. i mean several officers over a hundred ended up getting injured, several wound up going to the hospital. what were you saying to one another in the middle of it? >> we all felt like we were being rag dolls at that point. the didn't didn't want us to -- they didn't want to us do anything. we were getting these objects thrown at us. it was just ridiculous. it was to the point where we were almost going to do what we had to do to keep ourselves safe. i remember specifically i don't recall what day it was, whether it was saturday or monday but i remember commissioner batts specifically briefing us on it and it was -- it was something, you know let's face it we're in the midst of a riot and he's worry about appearance in a sense. he was telling officers to take off their black gloves take off this because we look too
aggressive. well you know sometimes i guess if if would maybe get that aggressiveness at the beginning and we didn't let it get to the point -- as soon as one person started throwing rocks at us we should have arrested them right there and it would set the precedent that if you throw rocks at the police if you assault the police you're going to go to jail. but instead that first night when the rocks started being thrown but when they started throwing them they should have been dealt with at that point. >> what do you make of the mayor coming out, originally she, the president, the city council, the police commissioner too called these people who were rioting and committing crimes thugs. and then the mayor got some pressure apparently because she came out on twitter and said she took it back they're just misguided young people who need our support. your thoughts on that. >> it's you know what they are
thugs. and it's -- unfortunately it is a group of younger individuals for the most part that are committing these crimes and that were doing this. and, you know let's all admit they probably do need guidance in their life but, you know when the adults are acting like children you can't have a child raising a child. >> do you feel like you are getting support? >> from the mayor? >> right. >> oh absolutely not. i mean i think she's shown her stance and i think she's shown that it's political for her. i mean the way that she's putting the police you know hanging them out to dry, ihink she's showing that it's a political game and when you have a large majority of these individuals that are voting for her, she's obviously going to say what they want to hear in order to get reelected.
>> what is the race of the six officers involved in this case? >> it's actually a mix of white and black officers. >> so it's not all white? >> that's correct. >> do you know whether anybody has taken that into consideration? i mean in so many of these cases, it's been a white officer and a black defendant, and we've been told that's the problem that these police forces are too white and they're too trigger happy when they're going after black defendants. >> that's just something that they're going to say because, you know they can never admit that you know it was their doing that got them arrested. they can never take responsibility for their actions. it's always going to be a race game. and you know what the baltimore police department is an extremely diverse department all the way from the officers all the way up to the command staff, it's an extremely diverse department. so i -- that's something that we
hear every day, you're only giving me attention because i'm black, you're always doing this. it's always -- it's an easy way out instead of taking responsibility. >> for the viewers who are out there now, mike thinking to themselves this is a clear cut of police brutality. the guy went into the van fine he emerged with a broken neck and then died. what do you want them to take away? >> you know i want them to before they you know give these officers the same rights that every other citizen has. you know they're not guilty until they're proven guilty. that's just i want them to wait till they know the facts before they truly judge these officers. >> do you have any beef with the department? have you been disciplined in any way or had any sort of -- have you been disciplined in any way
at the department? >> i have not. >> so you have a clean record? >> i do. >> describe for us, if you would, what it is like to be a police officer right now in baltimore under the stress and the pressures that we have seen this week. >> you know what at this point everyone's saying you know when we finally do resume regular patrol responsibilities and that type of thing, at this point, we've seen where the mayor is we've seen where the commissioner is we've seen whose side they're on. it's going to take you know a serious act of violence it's going to take serious events for these officers to go out and arrest people. you're not going to see officers being as pro active because the department has shown whose side they're on. they're not going to stand up for these officers when you know it's dents like this come down. let's face it police work is not a pretty subject. it's not going to be a pretty
picture. there's going to be things that just look bad. and it's just the nature of the beast. i don't think you're going to see the officers going out there being as pro active as they were before. >> mike stay safe. thank you for being on with us and all the best to you. >> thank you. >> six officers have been charged in the death of freddie gray but will those charges stick? our legal panel weighs in next. test test test test test test
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on that testimonial we just heard from that baltimore police officer, which starkly contrasts from what we heard from the state's attorney today. >> well megan, i've dealt with a lot of these cases out here in california and what i call mike's testimony tonight is the houdini defense for the police department. in other words, a freddie gray is detained he perfectly fine we throw him in the van, after the first stop he's okay the second stop he's still chit chatting and then gee whiz all of a sudden we get to the police station and he's dead he's not breathing, we didn't do anything wrong. that's going to be their defense in this case. but i tell you where there's going to be a problem. in this case it's almost like that deduction we learned in law school where you go to bed, the streets are dry. you wake up in the morning, the streets are wet. what does that mean? it rained. here freddie gray was perfectly
healthy, megyn, before the police officers detained him. i don't think a jury is going to believe this happened in the van because he had three severed vertebrae. >> everything he just said makes perfect sense. something happened. how did he wind up dead? how did they get to in particular second degree murder that there was an intention, that that cop acted intentionally to cause his death? >> i share the concern there. let's say what they did was negligent, you should have buckled him in. that gives you money damage in civil court. what's needed for manslaughter is culpable negligence. that moves up the ladder for culpability.
i thought for sure when they said the guy was charged with second degree murder that they must have had evidence that he must have swerved hard and -- >> it seems to be based that freddie gray was asking for medical help and none was provided. that's something the officers are going to deny. her information has got to come from the cops. does it not? how would she know this if it were not from the cops? >> well, megan whether these police officers believed that freddie needed medical help is not a subjective standard in the criminal trial. it's going to be a reasonable officer standard. and i think that you are going to get jurors out there that simply aren't going to believe megan the fact that freddie be thrown into this van and by the way he is screaming in that video. >> they said it wasn't unusual. that's not unusual for freddie and they say a lot of defendants do that to try to get the cops to back off. >> megan, i have been on numerous ride alongs, these
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mark, is this a show trial as alan dershowitz said today? he said there is no way they will get a conviction here. i wouldn't say no way they are not going to get a conviction. look at the climate. need metal detectors to make sure people aren't bringing pitch forks into jury duty with the climate there. the thing that concerns me the most is they. the police department is not on trial. each individual defendant is and we have to find out what each person did or didn't do. the prosecutor the d.a. is coming under fire for saying too much today when she laid out her case did. she reveal too much? >> oh, i don't think so, megan. i think she had to lay out not only the charges against the officers but the basis for those charges. and if i might add megan. in second degree depraved murder in maryland it doesn't require intent. it requires the officer who act in conscious disregard and he did that. >> we will continue to follow that. thank you both. >> i don't know about that we'll be right back. don't go away.
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we're taking your thoughts tonight on our interview with mike go to kelly file. thank you for watching, everyone. i'm megyn kelly. this is the kelly file and here is sean, live. >> thanks, megan. this is a fox news alert. tonight we have an exclusive interview with a colleague of the six officers who were charged in the death of freddie gray. now, in just a moment, we will have new insider information about what happened when freddie gray was, in fact, arrested but first, six baltimore cops involved in the arrest of gray are now facing an array of criminal charges including second degree murder for the cop that is driving the van. now, in baltimore tonight the city is once again on lockdown and with authorities now trying to clear the streets to enforce a curfew that is now going into effect at this very minute joining us now on the ground in baltimore once again is our own leland vittert. leland? >> and sean, there has been celebration all day. can you hear the honking horns still going o