tv Justice With Judge Jeanine FOX News May 2, 2015 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT
when kevin jorgeson needs light, he trusts only duracell quantum because it lasts longer in 99% of devices. ♪ >> hello, and welcome to "justice." thanks for being with us. tonight, shocking report that illegals could vote in the 2016 election if the president has his way. and how one state, texas, might put the federal government to shame by strengthening its own power grid. but, first, thou sands gather in bat mar of what many call a victory rally. fox news correspondent mike tobin is in baltimore with the latest. mike? >> reporter: hi, judge. well, the demonstrations that were down at city hall marched in mass to this location at north avenue and pennsylvania,
which has really become the epicenter of the demonstration. get a look around right now, it's really worked its way into somewhat of a street party. it looks like they took off marching now from the center of the intersection, heading east on north avenue. but the whole thing has kind of become routine with the exception that you have almost no police presence right here. you don't even see the national guard at this moment. but part of the routine that has worked up as congressman elijah is coming. just about every night we see him get on the bull horn, encourage people to get home, respect the curfew. most of them do. you usually have a few people who want to hang out. when police show up in force and start making their first aggressive move, what you generally get is the crowd scatters and all that's left here at the intersection is media. judge? >> mike, thanks. and, now, to my opening statement.
tonight, cops across the nation are being demonized for the alleged actions of some in baltimore. but imagine the 25-year-old running from the police is your son. your son arrested and thrown in that police van. your son buried. i want you to take race, family, preconceived notions for or against law enforcement out of this. this is about the facts. pure and simple. i've been there. the elected d.a. in a tough spot charging police that you work with ef day, that you need to testify to put criminals behind bars with a crime that could land them behind those same bars. the issues are hard. the problems, fast and furious. now, there's no question that baltimore city state's attorney is articulate, passionate and
believed in the charchs she has brought. and she believes she can prove them beyond a reasonable doubt. but i'm not so sure. >> the manner of death being homicide is believed to be the result of a fatal injury that occurred while mr. gray was unrestrained by a seat belt in the custody of the baltimore police department wagon. >> but she's also inexperienced, never having tried a murder case, new at the job in office for four months. just recently leaving her insurance company job. now, granted, the medical examiner ruled this a homicide. but any experienced examiner knows that's nothing more than a classification meaning it's not an accident and it's undetermined. so why on the same day does she file charges? there's no question, freddie gray was healthy enough to run from the police.
but almost dead when he was taken off of that police van. and in a case as unusual and unique as this, why not seek out pathologists. other medical examiners for insighted as to what the defense will try to show and who to charge? were freddie gray's injuries the result of the bicycle cops putting him in a position? were they due to his being put in a seated position? or when they put him stomach down on the ground? or when he was put in a leg lace? or when he was placed in the police van without a seat belt? or when he was removed from the van and flex cuffs placed on his wrists and leg shackles on his legs? now, mosby believes the critical neck injury occurred during the ride to central booking. how does she know that? maybe we all need to step back and let the justice system take its course.
and whether they're guilty or not and whether they should have been charged or overcharged, the passion surrounding this case to render cops powerless or the removal of their guns is nothing short of lunacy and putting all of society at risk. when cops commit crimes, they're prosecuted and jailed. i know. i've prosecuted cops. but it's time for us to recognize the importance and the necessity of maintaining and respecting the men and women in blue who put their lives on the line every day. and to suggest that all cops are the enemy is absurd. to those who hate cops and don't want them around, start defending yourself. the truth? these cops are not paid anywhere near enough to put their lives
on the line every day. they're not paid enough to be abused and ridiculed and blamed for all of society's ills, spit on by murderers, waste thrown at them by prisoners. cops are the one line of defense, indeed, the last line, that separates us from a bar baric and chaotic society. they live on the battlefield where the fight between good and evil unfolds every day. and, often, they'll quietly die on that very battlefield. and left behind are grieving families, children without parents because someone chose to stand for law and order against chaos. and after their death, there are no marches, no burning of businesses and no looting when they are killed. maybe it's time to recognize and
respect the role of men and women in our society. and that's my open. tell me what you think on my facebook page or twitter. with me now, milwaukee county sheriff, david clark. good evening, slfr. you heard my open, what do you think? >> spot on. you hit a home run. make sure you touch all the bases. one of new york's finest, an n.y.p.d. officer was shot in the line of duty tonight. my thoughts and prayers are with him and the n.y.p.d. agency. but over to your open -- >> and let me say that we're going to be talking about that in a little bit. but go ahead, sheriff. >> i don't know, judge, to me, this doesn't pass the smell test. i listened to the charging news conference yesterday and it was just too much emotion in there. some of the language used, she talked about she hears the voices. you know yourself as a veteran
prosecutor, i've been a part of the conferences working with the prosecutor. most prosecutors take their time. they meticulously go over everything. she came out with this a little fast to me and she's talking about hearing the voices and telling the youth this is your time. >> yeah, this is your moment. this is the movement. let's be productive. but, you know, sheriff, there are those who say, you know, in her defense, well, she knew that there was outrage out there and she knew she was going to file charges, so she just did it. what do you say to that? >> you know, there might be something to that. i don't know what she knows. i don't know all the facts of the case. i don't know what happened in that wagon. but you know yourself you have to block all of that out. she's supposed to be neutral in making this decision. she's new. she should have called in some veteran people to help her out and take her time with this thing and get it right. murder is a tough charge. it's a higher standard, as you know. and you don't get a second chance to do this right.
if she has to amend these charges, people will start to wonder. the justice system will get this right. there's no doubt in mir mind. >> this is an issue that's been bothering me. the baltimore mayor calling for the police to stand down or giving those who wish space to enjoy time to do that. what law enforcement agency is going to listen to that? no cop that i've ever met will say oh, okay, mayor, we'll stand down. >> that was incredible when i heard that. and, you know, somebody in the baltimore police department should have taken the bull by the horns and done the right thing. make sure the officers have the proper amount of resources, and that includes the tlorty to use all reasonable and necessary force to not only defend themselves but to keep control of the streets. >> absolutely. and what do you say about, you know, you and i have both run for these positions. and when we announce an arrest
or an indictment, there really isn't necessarily a call to arms. she's not going to recuse herself. how do you think this is all going to end up? >> it's ugly right now. i don't want to get into the predicting of it, but she took a crisis situation and i think she made it worse. i really do. >> well, what about people celebrating in the street? how do you think that makes cops feel? >> sickening. it's warped. there are no winners in this. you know this, judge. when the ferguson decision came out, new york with eric garner, you didn't see the cops applauding and having victory parties and high fiving each other. there are no winners. you pick up the pieces. you move on. you try to make things better. i thought we saw some of the worst of human kind having a victory party as this team returned after winning a championship. just warped, as far as i'm
concerned. >> and the argument that the driver should be charged with deprave e ed murder, i mean, th would mean that it is so outrageous and so -- almost rises to the level of intent. i mean, have you ever heard of anything like this in your years of law enforcement? >> not in 37 years. and every cop in america, the american police officer should pay attention to this case. i think these officers are being offered up as human sacrifices. i don't know what ms. mosby knows about this. she will know more about this than i. but, in the end, you know, a rules violation rising to a murder charge? it's kind of scary to me. >> what i would be interested in seeing, sheriff, is whether or not she's going to hold those looters and those arsonists and
those people who stole from the businesses, hold their feet to the fire. whether she's going to prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. you know, in these arguments, the guy wlos are riding, they should just be given amnesty, which i heard today on some station. it's crazy. what do you think? >> whab the people who assaulted those police officers? whab the charges that you indicate indicated we have a lot of film on that. those people should be held accountable. >> sheriff clark, always good to talk to you. thanks for being with us. >> all right. almost immediately after the medical examiner ruled freddie
gray's death a homicide, mosby files charges the same day against six police officers. doesn't ruling of homicide alone justify the filing of a murder charge? forensic pathologist michael bodden joins me now. >> what happens is the medical examiner makes a determination if the injuries indicate homicide. that's not a legal determination. then it's up to the prosecutor, as you know, to look at all of the facts around the case and determine whether it's a crime or not. >> but she paid so much emphasis to that. you know, i got it today. it's a homicide. we're filing. >> well, she had been looking at it for a while. >> less than two weeks. but wouldn't you want more
pathologists to look, especially in a case like this? >> well, i think so. we don't know if other pathologists haven't. >> well, wait a minute, she just got it that day. >> but they may have consulted with other pathologists before giving it to the prosecutor. but the thing about it is, until they release the autopsy report, which they haven't done yet, and the hospital records, they're going to contain information that will answer many of your questions as to whether the injury occurred during restrant, while being put back in the van. by the nature of the injury. >> right, right. there's no question. there is one thing that we're aparentally clear on and that is the manifestation of the bolt in his head when he's on the floor, correct? >> if there is such a thing. if there's a bolt mark on the head, that can be identified. now, that usually doesn't cause rapid death. what causes rapid death is a neck injury that prevents
breathing. and that's what will be looked at. if he's put back in the van and they don't put a neck brace on, then, the wiggling of the head can cause complete damage to the spinal cord and stop breathing. >> you know, he says he wants his inhaler, what does that tell you? >> that he has asthma of some kind. didn't get the inhaler. but, aparentally, trouble breathing at that point. yes. so by calling it a homicide, he's ruling out accident, suicide, natural death. he didn't have sickle cell disease, he didn't have heart dsz. >> let me ask you this. there have been reports. we know that this is a high crime area.
a drug area. possibly this defendant at some point in his life who was illegally arrested, and we need to make that clear, since the knife was not a switchblade, maybe he possessed drugs. and, as a result of that, he started. >> apparently, everybody agrees, he was running away from the police officer. even if he had heroin, marijuana on board, that could interfere with his judgment, but would not cause him to die suddenly. see, sudden death, a drug overdose is caused braetly lack of breathing over a period of hours. they lay in coma for a while. this happened while he was in the van. it indicates to me that if there is a spinal cord damage, that it's high up near the brain. >> okay, i want to thank you, doctor, for being with us tonight. . >> thank you. >> coming up, six cops face jail time over the death of freddie
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breaking tonight, a new york city police officer has been shot in queens. n.y.p.d. says they have one suspect in custody for questioning. we're going to have more on this breaking story as we get it. we're going to go back to sheriff david clark. sheriff, you are there, all right. thank you, sheriff. we don't know yet about the queens or n.y.p.d. officer who's been shot. i didn't realize it until a second ago he was shot in the head. but they do obviously have someone in custody. i mean, this is the kind of thing that happens across america. you don't see people marching, you don't see people burning buildings, looting, screaming and yelling. why is it that when they get killed, why some of these dirt bags, that anyone who shoots a cop is a dirt bag, that we don't
get that kind of reaction? are we so messed up in our turns of analysis? >> it's almost like they're immune to this stuff. same with the black-on-black crime. it's kind of shrug the shoulders. but let a law enforcement officer, any law enforcemented officer, white, black, hispanic shoot someone and there's a call of arms for demonstration and they want the calls for somebody's head. it's warped. it really is. these men and women, they put their best foot forward. and the overwhelming majority do it the right way. i was out in new york three weeks, a month ago and spent a week with n.y.p.d.'s finest. those people are wonderful. and how they do it, i don't know, in a city of what? 8 million people? >> yep.
>> and they're overwhelmed at times. >> there's no question. n.y.p.d., and i've said it before, i've had police officers from n.y.p.d. work in my office when i was a d.a., they're the best in the world. let mae ask you this, sheriff. do you think it's fair for the police officers to get a fair trial in baltimore? >> no, i don't. i really don't. that's going to be something that the defense attorneys, you know, the people defending these cops, and i say cops affectionately, i'm a cop, career cop, they're going to have to make. no, i think it's too highly charged right now for them to get a fair shot. >> and what about the -- will the pba defend them? >> i think they need the best defense attorneys money can buy. they have to bring in people from the outside. we're talking about murder charges. this isn't some -- but, but, but
sheriff, sheriff, these guys don't make enough money to hire the best there is. that's my point. they put their lives on the line. now, you know, if they're guilty, then so be it. you know it and i know it. but they can't afford the best that there is. >> yeah, those are some of the decisions they'll have to make, second mortgages, do everything they can. you'll have to figure out how to pay for it later. right now, it's about getting good defense counsel to get these charges. >> all right, sheriff david clark, thanks so much again. >> judge, my pleasure, as always. >> coming up, we continue to foal low the breaking news out of baltimore. and riots leave a kmieb e community in slambles. i talk to one of the protesters next. plus, colonel allen west only why he thinks a failure of why he thinks a failure of leadership i
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and rioters overtook the streets of baltimore, burning cars, looting businesses to protest freddie gray's death. today, thousands gathered in downtown baltimore for a victory rally. with me now is the leader of the y.m.c. community leader organization who was in baltimore this week. good evening, jay. i want to start with a little history. >> you grew up poor? >> yes, welfare kid. >> you started dealing drugs and served prison time. >> yes, high school dropout. after i turned 18, ended up here in new york for drug trafficking and a handgun charge. >> how did you get out of it? >> well, the cops illegally searched my vehicle. that's the kind of aggressive laws we have. >> i don't want to talk about the drug laws tonight.
i want to talk about you. you sit in front of me, you're pretty dapper there. how did you get out of a life of crime? >> hope, first of all. i believed in myself. at e at 25 years old, i asked myself in jersey still selling drugs, i said jay, where are you going to be when you're 30? all i could imagine was dead or in jail. i used my superpowers, instead of using them for evil, i used my superpowers for good. >> so why can't everybody else do what you did? >> well, first of all, freddie gray, he sure can't at 25. he's dead. he doesn't have that opportunity. and when these kind of aggressive policing happen in our urban communities, when people look at us like thugs and don't give us a chance to repair -- >> but they didn't give you a chance to repair it and you're a pyramid. you're at the top of your game.
>> but i wouldn't have been had i been put in the back of a police van and my spine broke or neck broke. >> that is a scenario where the police will probably be held acountable if they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. that's not guilwhat i'm talking about. you got arested. you served time. what about the kikids burning buildings, looting cars. >> those kids who our dear president calls thugs, those kids were revolting. that was a revolution. if those kids wouldn't have rioted, all of this wouldn't be in baltimore. >> so what you're saying is they made a conscious decision that we're going to burn the city to get the cameras here? >> they did not make a conscious decision. their natural reaction was an uprising. if you look at the definition of a revolt, its's actually an uprising against authority.
they didn't riot because they wanted bottles out of cvs. they rioted, as you call, they revolted, because they were feeling oppressed. >> did you revolt? did you burn buildings? did you trash police cars? you sold drugs. >> right, that was my system. i went and sold drugs because i thought i had no other opportunity here in america until i woke up. >> yeah, but nobody slapped it into you. you figured it out. why can't they figure it out? >> and we're helping them do that at ymc. >> it's called --? >> young minds can. >> i got arrested in baltimore, also. i got arrested -- >> last week? >> no, no, no. i was 21. >> i don't care about that. we don't have much time. i want to know what you think should happen to those kids who damage property, committed trespass, arson and stole. >> there's sacrifices in a revolution.
if those kids -- what's so crazy is that the kid who broke the police window and has $500,000 bail, the police officer who's arrested for murder in the third degree i recahas a lower bail. >> all right, jay, you're coming back another night: >> all right, colonel, you just heard jay and i. or probably jay more than me. colonel, talk to me. you've got to give jay credit. he had everything working against him, headed down the wrong path and he made a quick left turn. >> no, i grew up in the inner city of atlanta, georgia, same neighborhood as dr. king and i have seen those situations. i've heard a lot of excuses coming from jay. but the thing is when you continue to have failure of policy in the inner city, when you continue to offer excuses and young people don't see any consequences for the actions
that they're taking, you're just going to exacerbate this situation. so now, according to jay, the lesson learned, if something happens that you don't agree with, you don't like, then you justified, as the mayor said, to have space to go out and destroy. you know, baltimore looked like east jell ruz leap. and those people who went out and committed arson should be held acountable for those crimes. >> absolutely. they have to be held acounselble but the question i have is given the fact that they have not been held acountable, is this a, you know, a precedent establishing a situation where everyone else is going to say hey, i'm going to burn a few buildings even though grandma is not going to be able to get her medicine out of cvs and the business will never come back, you know, the precedent is there. >> the precedent is exactly being accomplished.
and further more, let's really rook at the systemic problem here. it's a breakdown of the family in a black community. when you have a community that now has 72% out of wedlock birthrates. i applaud the one mother who went out there and rescued her son from that situation. but, jeannine, let's understand this. where was the dad? >> yeah, but you know what, we're not going to change that. you and i sitting here talking are not going to change that. dad is gone. mom is the one who is in charge. so what do with we do -- >> yeah, but we cannot have sub sell kwent generations where this continues to occur. >> do you know in that area, colonel, there's a 45 pbt e%
truancy rate? kids don't emp go to school. so who is responsible? the parents, obviously. but if mom is working two jobs, what do we do about this? >> it's a cultural thing that we have to do. if you go back to ronald reagan's administration. urban economic empowerment zones. how do we create the right type of tax policies that enabled capitol to come back in and be reinvested in the inner city so that you can have small business growth. you think about the turn of the century, booker t. washington had a three-poibt agenda for the black community and the black person. he said it was about education, entrepreneurship and self reliance. that is what we have to start restoring. >> i want to ask you really fast, allen: the kid ran for a few blocks. he was fine. he gets off the van, he was dead. >> there is no doubt we need to
understand what happened. but the greater thing we have to discuss is we have to prevent freddie grays from all across america from having to be put in police vans first and foremost. >> well, let's see if that can ever happen. colonel, thanks for being with us tonight. >> coming up, i lock horns with the vice chair of the national black police association over the way cops make arrests. here at td ameritrade, they're always working. yup, we're constantly making thinkorswim better. like a custom screener on your desktop, that updates to all your devices. and you can share it with one click. wow. how do you find the time to do all this? easy. we combined every birthday and holiday into one celebration. (different holidays being shouted) back to work, guys! i love this times of year. for all the confidence you need. td ameritrade. you got this.
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you believe the charges, including murder, against your brothers and sisters in law enforcement are justified. why? >> justified because of their behavior. they deserve to be charged with 2k4. >> rochelle, you would agree, would you not, that it's not unusual for prisoners to drag their feet and not make it convenient for the police to put them in the police van? >> well, first of all, we cannot assume that this is just an act. we're not doctors. we're police officer.
he was screaming in pain. we side on the side of caution. call the medics flt let the medics decide. >> rochelle, would it be unusual for the vans that take the arrested person to the jail? do they stop at the hospital. >> that's not what i'm hearing. a person is injured and they see that and they're calling out for a medic, you take them right to the hospital. and if you don't think you can take them to the hospital, you don't drive around stopping at different stops. come on now, it was just right out wrong. >> there's no question that there were three, four stops on
this. but it's interesting, you were a cop in philly for 27 years. >> 27 years. >> how many? >> 27 years. >> a long time. and you believe that the justice system is failing people of color. first of all, how? and how could you work in a system you didn't believe? >> the system failed people of color because it doesn't give them the resource ins reference to -- most african americans get public defender who is gets little money. everybody else gets big time lawyers. they don't give them the resources. they plead them out most of the time. they scare them to death. if you don't plead out, you'll get 30 years in prison. >> i'm going to stop you for just a second. one of the things that stunned me when i was a judge is how good the public defenders are. that he're in the courtroom every day.
>> and what about you working in a system you didn't believe in? >> i was one of those cops that you would not do that in front of me. there's a lot of police officers that would not allow that. those who stand there and let it happen, then you become a part of that? >> all right. rochelle, thanks for being with us this evening. and coming up, imagine what would happen if the power went off and didn't turn back on for years? one texas state senator wants to one texas state senator wants to make sure that never happens feel secure in your dentures... feel free to be yourself all day. just switch from denture paste to sea-bond denture adhesive seals. holds stronger than the leading paste all day... without the ooze. feel secure. be yourself. with stronger, clean sea-bond.
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imagine no light, no water pumps, no refrigeration of food, hospitals all offline. this nightmare could become a reality if our nation's power grid goes dark, but so far, the power companies have lobbied, and the federal government has failed to protect our grid. but earlier i spoke with texas state senator bob hall, working to protect the texas grid.
take a look. >> senator hall, thanks for being with us. there's no question that the grid system in the united states has been compared to one of a third world country by secretary of energy, actually, a balkanized system. but what you've done in texas is introduced legislation to try to make texas one of the three parts of the grid that is self-contained in your state and independent, hardened grid. why? >> well, the primary reason is that the texas legislature has a responsibility to protect the liberties and freedoms of its citizens, and the threat that we are faced with the possibility of either a man made or natural emp is a threat to those liberties and freedoms. >> and your state of texas is unique, senator, in the sense that the grid is all within one state, contained within the state. and you actual lly have the
ability to harden it, but why hasn't the federal government done this ? >> well, the federal government has, the congress has made an attempt, but the power lobby is an extremely powerful lobby, and they have promulgated a lot of myths and half truths about the grid. and their influence, apparently at the federal level is stronger on the congress up there than the congress's devotion to presenti protecting the people of the united states. >> you know something, it's something that justice has been following for some time. and it's my understanding that most of the bills are dead due to the lobbying and the contributions to senators and congress men by these electrical companies and power companies, which is really a sad commentary. but you have a particular background that brings you to this place. you were a captain in the air
force, and that brings me to the issue of the military relying on the civilian grid. what would your bill do, at least for the people in texas? >> well, for the military installations in texas and the people of texas, our bill would move us towards an ever-increasing level of survivability of our electrical grid. and since the military installations use the same electric grid that the civilian population and manufacturing and industry does, it would provide a protection in the event of either type of threat. so that the grid would be recoverable or would continue operating in the event of a threat. >> and texas, and i love texas, and you guys are very often the lead in a lot of things, but if your bill passes, if texas makes the decision to independently harden its own grid, then
wouldn't that be an invitation, not only to other states to follow, but to businesses around the country who say to themselves, if the grid goes down over here or over there, i'm going to choose a state where they've got a strengthened grid? >> oh, absolutely. that's where i think the short-sightedness of the very aggressive lobby by the power company to keep this from happening just doesn't make sense. because by hardening the texas electrical grid, it would be the most attractive, economic step that the state could take to bring new businesses and manufacturing to texas. >> and they say the cost of the federal strengthening of the grid would be $2 billion. what would it be for the state of texas to strengthen their grid. >> probably about 10% to 11% of that. so we're talking between $200 million and $300 million. >> which is really nothing in terms of what it would save in
terms of human lives as well as the military, as well as business in texas. when is this happening, senator, quickly? >> we have a bill that's been heard in committee. and we're hoping to have a vote in committee on tuesday of this week. >> senator bob hall, congratulations on this. and we're going to follow this. thanks for being with us. >> thank you for having us. appreciate your interest. and now, let's head back to baltimore, where our own pete you apeter doocy is live on the ground. >> we are completely on the other side of town from the looting and protests over the last week or so. and we have found a group of several dozen people standing in the park on the corner, and they are ready to get arrested. they have a lot of signs that say break curfew, silence equals
violence. you can see them all here. we've spoken to a few of them. i've tried to get a sense of them and they say they are from the neighborhood, and they're trying to make a statement. right after we rolled up, about ten minutes ago, so did about a half-dozen baltimore police wagons and several dozen other officers. one of the officers came over, explained that there have been a lot of daytime rallies that have not broken curfew. he asked one of the people here what's going to happen at 10:00. she said she didn't know. so we are close to curfew and potentially going to see several potentially going to see several people g this is brian. every day, brian drives carefully to work. and every day brian drives carefully to work, there are rate suckers. he's been paying more for car insurance because of their bad driving for so long, he doesn't even notice them anymore. but one day brian gets snapshot from progressive.
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with the swipe of a finger. come to transunion.com. and get in the know. wish "outnumbered" a break and we will see you tomorrow at noon. now, bill o'reilly's "legends." news is the first draft of history. it's immediate and takes place in realtime. legends take longer to develop and are sometimes based on myth. this fox news series looks at the truth behind the legend.