tv The Real Story With Gretchen Carlson FOX News September 8, 2015 11:00am-12:01pm PDT
tulsa's great raft race. different than rat race which is what i was going to say. participants took to the arkansas river for the first time in 25 years. >> i like the vw bug. that was good. great couple of hours. thanks for joining us. "the real story" with gretchen starts right now. fox news alert. federal judge ordering kentucky clerk kim davis be released from jail. hi, i'm gretchen carlson. this is the real story. five days after the same judge ordered davis locked up for contempt of court over her refusal to issue same-sex marriage licenses. supporters are gathering outside the jail right now for the big rally that's supposed to happen. this comes with presidential candidates mike huckabee and senator ted cruz planning to meet with davis today. protesters have been turning out on both sides of the issue since davis was jailed last thursday. >> she is guilty of keeping the law. and the judge, david bunning,
has found her in contempt of this court. we are holding today judge bunning in contempt of the court of all mighty god. >> shannon bream, why release her now? what happens next? >> judge bunning, who put davis behind bars asked the plaintiffs to the case to specify by 10:00 a.m. this morning to his chambers whether or not they'd been able to get marriage licenses. satisfied that they were able to do that, bunning ordered davis released. not without conditions. his order says defendant davis shall be released from custody of the u.s. marshal forthwith. he continues, she shall not interfere directly or indirectly with her clerks to issue marriage licenses to all legally eligible couples. if defendant davis interferes, that will be considered a violation of the order and appropriate sanctions will be
considered. remember, there are five deputy clerks who have agreed to issue the licenses to all eligible couples. that's been happening while davis has been in jail, gretchen. >> do we know if davis, when back on the job, will comply with the judge's order. >> i think there is a good chance that she will not. and of course that could mean she'll go back to jail. here is what her attorney said just before we learned that she would be released. >> she won't change her conscience and she won't change her mind on this issue. she thought about this a long time and prayed about it. and unless her name and her authority is taken off the licenses, she will not allow the licenses to issue under her name or her authority that authorizes a marriage contrary to god's definition of marriage. >> even if the deputies, five of them, issuing the licenses and it's not her, but her name remains on the license, as you heard from her attorney. she still may object and try to obstruct the process. if so, she could be facing fines
or jail time. we'll wait and see. gretchen. >> it's interesting. according to the report that came out from the district court apparently it's going to say rowan county now instead of kim davis on the line reserved for the name of the county clerk. right, shannon? >> it's possible. i know they've been talking about an accommodation. if that happens, that may resolve her issues. we know that all of the deputy clerks have been ordered to report back to the court every 14 days or so to let them know licenses are being issued and that there are not any objections or problems for people going to the courthouse seeking to get them. >> any update on whether or not she is still going to be meeting with the presidential contenders, huckabee and cruz, and what time she may actually come out of the jail? >> well, there was just a tweet from governor huckabee saying that he was there and was planning to meet with her. we know -- we're told that usual visiting hours are between 1:00 and 3:00 i believe eastern time there. we'll see.
they both talked about going to see her separately. there is a little bit of friction between the two campaigns about this rally. they both the minute she was jailed came out strongly in her defense last week. they both separately wanted to meet with her. we'll see. it looks like the event is as planned. maybe she'll be at the rally in her defense instead of inside the jailhouse. >> that's supposed to take place 25 minutes from now with governor huckabee. shannon bream, thank you. meantime, other presidential candidates weighing in on this ongoing legal battle in kentucky. governor chris christie calling the planned jail visits grand standing and says senators like ted cruz should focus on getting more done on capitol hill. >> this is what they have time to do? they should get out of washington d.c. and fix the problems. they don't fix the problems. they close down boft and bicker and argue and don't get anything
done. they told us if we elected a republican senate and house we'd get tax reform, get obamacare revealed. none of it has happened. >> great to have you back on "the real story" senators. what do you make of chris christie's comments? are you guys actually going to get anything done? >> i'm here in washington because i have an obligation to the taxpayers in kentucky. i will be here to vote this afternoon. we'll have a vote at 5:30. i am trying very hard not to have any kind of campaign activities take away from my voting. one of the interesting things about the kentucky controversy that hasn't been discussed enough, in 2013 we passed a religious freedom restoration act, and it allows for elected officials to opt out of things if they have a moral or religious objection to. i don't think this has been tested yet. in the federal court they did not look at our kentucky law. the kentucky law specifically is designed, if there was an accommodation such as taking her name or her office off of the
marriage certificate, i think that's all she has ever asked for. she said she was willing to file the contract but did not want to give her signature or approval to the contract. >> what you're saying is that, if it was a state issue, then it would be handle differently, but because it's federal, it's not. >> i don't think that's exactly it. i think it has not been addressed yet under the religious freedom act. i do believe that the religious freedom act of 2013 probably specifically protects her. the judge didn't rule on the religious freedom act. i think we need to have and probably will if she persists have an important test to our religious freedom act to see if it will be upheld. i think it will be as long as she is willing to file an accommodation. >> you have been in support of kim davis? >> yeah. i think it's a mistake by the judge to put her in jail. if you want to convince people of some kind of new definition
of marriage, i think persuasion is a better way to go about it. i think putting people in jail is an absurd response for punishment for this. i think the judge made a mistake. >> but does she hurt the case for religious freedom? you know she has her critics, obviously. >> no. i think ultimately this needs to be decided on whether or not people who disagree with the new definition of marriage have to sign and put their impremture, their signature saying they approve of this or sankictify this. this is a big deal for this woman. there no reason why consenting adults can't have contracts. why can't they get it notarized? i think the kentucky law supports her at this point because there is a religious freedom exemption in the law. >> what do you say, senator, to the people who say, look, she ran for this office, she knew that she was going to be working for the government and this is the law of the land now. she should just abide by that
law. >> we have exemptions for all kinds of different religions and different races and different people who feel like the government law has gone against what their personal beliefs in religion are. it's called the religious freedom act. so the law does protect her and i don't think it's been tested yet. >> senator rand paul who decided to stay in d.c. congress is back in session there and he wants to get business done there. moving on to this for a moment as we continue to wait to see what's going to happen with kim davis. when she comes out, we'll be there live. hillary clinton could have a tough time explaining the results of a brand-new email report. two intelligence agencies conducting a second review, finding two emails contained top-secret, classified information at the time she actually received them. chief white house correspondent ed henry in washington for us as well. how serious of an intelligence breach was this? >> it could be a dramatic development. it gets to the heart of hillary
clinton's claims that this information was not marked classified and so somehow she did not have classified information in her server. the second review by the intelligence community is suggesting that at least two emails they looked at were classified when created, regardless of markings or not, and that the secretary should have known that. one was about north korea's nuclear program. so it would be highly classified information much you put this on top of the fact that one of the former clinton aides, the young staffer who has now pled the fifth in all of this, republican governor chris christie of new jersey, of course, is running for president, told fox this morning he thinks all of these reports are alarming and suggests that the clinton campaign is covering something up. listen. >> this is a failure of leadership. what you need is when people make mistakes, you need to say to them, listen, you need to own up to them. own up to them. cooperate, cooperate with authority so that people know the answers.
that's not the way it works in hillary-world. >> reporter: all of this comes as clinton's successor. secretary of state john kerry in the last few moments appointed a former ambassador to serve as transparency coordinator at the state department dealing with all of these records requests, not just from congress but the public as well, about the clinton email, travel records. they might be a couple years behind on this because these requests have been mounting. >> yes. it's interesting they wouldn't need the person in that position if that had not been the case. okay. is this why the clinton camp now leaking out that she is trying to reboot her campaign post labor day? >> very interesting. some of her advisors telling "the new york times" that after they did focus groups in new hampshire and other key states they came up with the idea of rebooting the campaign. show the softer side of hillary clinton, showing more humor. this is something we've heard before about hillary 2.5, 3.0. i'm not sure which number we're on now.
hillary clinton herself earlier retweeted this exchange with andrea mitchell of nbc news that, again, they're trying to show the softer side. >> text or email? >> not sure that's appropriate. we asked jeb bush so we're asking you. >> email. >> poor timing perhaps on that joke. on twitter today. david axelrod is not buying this. he says today's "new york times" story red more like "the onion." her plan to show for authenticity and spontaneity, just do it. the one senior advisor saying, just show it. don't tell the new york times you're going to be more spontaneous. back live awaiting the release of kentucky clerk kim davis from jail. as you all know, five days after being locked up for refusing to issue the marriage licenses. specifically for same-sex couples. then she said she wouldn't issue any marriage licenses. and also, we're going to talk about this.
the back yard barbecue with big political stakes. we'll talk to senator scott brown about who got invited to his well-known gathering where no bs is allowed. brings us to our question of the day. which 2016er would you invite over for a no bs backyard barbecue? right back to the rally. staying in rhythm...
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fox news alert. we're still awaiting the release of kentucky clerk kim davis from jail. this is going to happen because a federal judge about an hour or so ago ordered her release. it all happened a short time ago. there is a rally going on outside the courthouse where she is reportedly to meet with
homewomike huckabee and senator ted cruz. >> so this is breaking right now. >> thank you, gretchen. >> what do you make of the whole kim davis story? >> well, obviously she has the right to express her religious views, but she also has an affirmative obligation to do the people's business. i thought rand's analysis was a positive one. i am a little disappointed that politicians are -- they're there to get things stirred up a little bit. i think the process needs to play out. >> you don't agree with the fact that governor huckabee has gone there and now senator ted cruz as well. >> i am not sure what their intentions are. are they there to support her, are they there to reprimand her. if they're there to support her and while she has the right to express herself i think there is a fine line. she has an obligation to do the people's business, the job she was elected to do and there should have been, i believe, another plan in place for maybe an assistant to issue the
licenses. it is the law of the land. the supreme court has spoken and we are a nation of laws. >> so her attorney has just come out with the statement, matt staver, founder and chair of the liberty council said this, we are pleased that kim davis has been ordered released. she can never recover the past six days of her life spent in an isolated jail cell where she was incarcerated like a common criminal because of her conscience and religious convictions. she is free to return to her family, her co-workers and the office where she has faithfully served for 27 years. we'll continue to assist kim and pursue the multiple appeals she has filed. the interesting thing, senator, will be whether or not she is going to actually comply with the judge's order. it appears now that the deputies that serve underneath her will be the ones potentially to be signing the same-sex marriage licenses. i'm not sure exactly how it will be stamped. >> well, that's true. it is a situation where, as rand said, i believe he is correct in
this, that the judge, i think, really went a little too far in putting her in jail. obviously to -- because she did -- she didn't sign the marriage licenses. but this will be tried out. there will be appeals, and we'll ultimately have a ruling and the process needs to move forward. >> word coming in to fox that kim davis may in fact make a statement when she is released, if she comes out during the rally that's supposed to be held with governor mike huckabee and senator ted cruz, both of whom have apparently now met with kim davis. the timing of her release, though, still not yet confirmed or known for sure. scott, while i have you, senator, i should say, i want to talk to you briefly about something that you hosted last night, which was the no bs backyard barbecue. i have to tell you, i love the title. you had ohio governor john kasich last night. what happened there? >> we had over 200 people show up. it is a no bs barbecue.
new hampshire takes its first in the nation primary status seriously. one of the things i enjoyed very much campaigning is going into people's living rooms, businesses and their homes and learning and getting asked direct questions about issues that are very important. tonight we have chris christie coming in. we're expecting a similar amount. virtually every candidate knows about it and has accepted. we'll be doing this over the next month, month and a half on a consistent basis. so it's exciting. >> all right. then i gather that the senator after you have all these no bs barbecues you'll say who you will endorse. >> my gave gail and i are learning and listening just like everybody else in new hampshire and throughout the country because we have some great people. every single one of them would make a better president than joe biden, hillary clinton, the socialist bernie sanders. so it's an exciting time to be a republican. >> all right. senator scott brown, thanks for your thoughts on the breaking news and also his no bs
barbecue. no doubt very popular. right now people rallying in grayson, kentucky, for county clerk kim davis, judge ordering her released from jail this afternoon. we are awaiting a speech from presidential candidate mike huckabee shortly as well as possibly kim davis herself. keep it right here on fox. we're right back. moderate to severe crohn's disease is tough, but i've managed. except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. and when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems,
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but they won't last forever. fox news alert. back to the top story this hour. supporters of kentucky county clerk kim davis gathering outside the jail where she has been held in contempt of court since thursday. this afternoon a federal judge ordering her release but directing her to not interfere with the issuing of marriage licenses by her deputies. let's listen for a moment. they're now singing "god bless
america." >>. ♪ this land is your land, this land is my land ♪ >>. ♪ from california to the new york islands ♪ ♪ from the redwood forest to the gulf stream waters ♪ >> judge andrew napolitano is fox news senior judicial analyst and joining me now on the set. amazing developments happening within the last hour now. >> right. >> it's my understanding that she has been released now. kim davis has been released from jail there. the judge issuing that about an hour ago. your thoughts. >> well, remember, she was found in a state of civil contempt, which under the law means she disobeyed a court order. this is not criminal contempt. she was not convicted of a crime and sentenced to a jail term. she wasn't put in jail for punishment. she was put in jail for coercion, to coerce her to comply with the court's ruling.
i would not have put her in jail, for several reasons. when people have religious beliefs, putting them in jail is not going to change the religious beliefs. the court should use the least force necessary, not the most force available. >> what else could the judge have done? >> the way this ended up. taking away from her personally the authority to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples and giving it to her deputies. then her conscience would have been clear. she would have been free and not in jail and the same-sex couples could have exercised what the supreme court has said is their right under the constitution. >> what if she comes back to her job and says, i'm still against it and in my office i don't want this to happen. >> she can say that, if she says i won't permit five of my six deputies in my office who each told the federal judge that they will sign the marriage licenses, she'll end up back there. and then we have the standoff again. but the bottom line is, she should be free and clear to do
her job without a religious impediment. if she has a religious impediment, that part of the job should not be in her job listing. >> i don't know if you saw my interview with senator rand paul. >> i did. >> he was saying that in 2013 there was a kentucky law that talked about what you're just saying. >> yes. >> this sort of amendment, if you had a religious freedom, you know, question about your job. but that doesn't apply to the federal law. >> well, the kentucky law requires that kentucky government accommodate the religious views of government employees and the views of those who want to exercise their rights. so what senator paul was suggesting was, if the kentucky law had been followed, someone other than she would have issued the piece of paper, which is all it is, an application for a marriage license. that would have accommodated her, let her keep her job without violating her conscience and accommodate those who want to get married and are choosing a same-sex mate as the supreme court said they can.
that's what i understood senator paul to be arguing for. if the federal judge had done that we wouldn't be seeing what we're seeing today. >> please stick around. we're going to take a time-out and be right back as we're continuing to watch this live rally for kim davis. we expect she may be coming to the microphone along with governor mike huckabee any moment from now. right back.
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fox news alert. bottom of the hour now. we are awaiting a speech from republican presidential candidate mike huckabee after a federal judge has ordered the release of kentucky clerk kim davis. same judge ordered her held last thursday for contempt of court over her refusal on religious grounds to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. senator ted cruz is there as well and let's go live to shannon bream who has been covering the story for us. shannon. >> i wanted to talk more about something you had mentioned. an order judge bunning put out today saying kim davis should be immediately released. we understand that is happening at any moment, any second, as we watch live. you talked about the fact that they have been altering the licenses. the judge talked about this in his decision. he says here that apparently the five deputies who agreed to go ahead and issue the licenses have been doing that.
they have been altering it so that rowan county rather than kim davis' name appears on the line reserved for the name of the county clerk. plaintiffs have not alleged that the alterations affect the validity of the licenses. the plaintiffs are happy with the licenses. he said i don't find either that the alterations are impacting the court's decision to the deputies complied. it seems to be the court and the plaintiffs are saying they're okay with the alteration instead of kim davis' name being on the licenses they're using rowan county instead. so, if that holds, it sounds like that's a compromise that her legal team to this point would be willing to work with. all along they've said if she doesn't have to sign off on any of this that's the compromise she is looking for. the order says she can't in any way interfere with the deputy clerks doing their job and issuing these licenses to any couple who is eligible to legally get married. so we'll see if that compromise
is good enough for her. if not, the judge said, if she violates the order, she could be facing fines and jail all over again. >> right. how does this change the process of somebody in the county going to get a marriage license? does it change it at all or just the terminology on a piece of paper? >> i don't think it probably changes the act of going through the process of going to the county courthouse there or the clerk's office and getting the license. maybe there is a name scratched out and a different name put in. maybe just rowan county is there instead of one of the clerks or her signing. it sounds like no one is putting their names on the licenses but they're still being issued to couples who show up and want to get married and they're still being viewed as valid. maybe this is the compromise that will work for everybody. if not, we'll be right back where we are right now with kim davis potentially being back in jail. if she can work with this, it seems like couples will be able to show up there as they were in the past, whether same-sex or traditional marriage couples, either way, it sounds like
everybody who wants to and is legally able will be able to go to the courthouse, get the license, walk out with it and if they choose, get married. >> shannon bream, stand by. judge andrew napolitano is still here. fox news senior judicial analyst. you listened to what shannon has said. you seem to think that's the way it might play out as well? >> i do. for the couples who are going to get married, this is not a driver's license that you carry around in your wallet and sometimes have to show to the government to prove who you are. you're married, you're married. this is a document some people never see and others put in a drawer. unless kentucky has some very, very rigid and unbendable state requirement that insists that the county clerks personally sign every marriage license, i think this is a doable and rational compromise. >> so it's interesting because the judge in this ruling today, in letting her go, said that the
plaintiffs were happy with having a different name there. >> right. >> that they weren't upset with the fact that it didn't say "kim davis." that actually factored into his decision? >> i tell you what factored into his decision, where we get back to your interview with senator rand paul a few minutes ago. the kentucky statute. this kentucky judge -- the federal judge is certainly aware of kentucky law and must take could go ni za could go ni zans of it. that law says accommodate the person who is asserting the objection with the person who is coming to the government to effectuate their rights. >> you know that's senator ted cruz. we saw him for a second. i believe he's coming outside of the jail there, the detention center. as we've been telling you that governor huckabee, former governor of arkansas, spear-headed the movement with davis and set up the rally.
he's also been inside meeting with davis. it's our understanding she is about to be released. she see senator cruz coming out the front door. we're not sure if he is come to go the podium as well or will leave it to governor huckabee. >> somehow i don't think he'll leave it to senator huckabee all by himself. >> the politics of all of this. a live picture of kim davis coming out of jail for the first time in five to six days, governor huckabee behind her there. let's listen to see if we can hear kim saying anything. >> we thank you all for coming. obviously we have had a major bonus today to be able to see kim davis released. she has been away from her husband and her family for six days. she has only been able to visit joe on one day on sunday for a
brief while through glass. today they were able to hug each other for the first time in five, six days. we want to be able to give kim some opportunity to go back with her husband joe and to just rest for the rest of the day. she won't be making any specific statements to the media today regarding the substance of the case. we will address that later this week. kim is someone who is loyal to god and she is loyal to her job and to her people. and she plans to be back at work this week. but i can guarantee you, knowing kim, she loves god, she loves people, she loves her work, and she will not betray any of those three. she'll do her job good, she'll serve the people as they want her to serve and she was elected, and she'll also be loyal to god and she is not
going to violate her conscience. so she is released today, and we're certainly rejoicing in her release, but the court order did not resolve the underlying issue, and that issue is kim davis has asked for a very simple accommodation, remove her name and her authority from the marriage certificates, and that's what we've asked from the very beginning. kim still is having for that today. and we will continue to ask for that in the future. we believe that the court could act on that. we believe the governor could act on that. and we believe the kentucky assembly can act on that as well. but either way, independently or in a combination with each other, we are still asking for kim davis and others like her to have her conscience and her religious convictions accommodated. kim's life was drastically changed four and a half years ago when her mother-in-law had a dying wish for her to go attend church. and she did and she gave her
life to jesus and her life has been changed since then. she is a different woman than she was four and a half years ago. that's what really behind kim. if you get to know this lady, and i'm sure you will in the next days ahead, because i know a lot of you have wanted to talk to her. and we will make available what we can, respecting her time and her privacy. but if you get a chance to know kim, she is the most amazing individual who is at peace, even in this jail cell. and she is someone who encourages you when you try to come and encourage her. >> reporter: -- issue same-sex licenses. >> kim davis will not violate her conscience. >> reporter: will her deputies be able to issue same-sex licenses? that's part of the provision of the judge's order right now? dat
violate her conscience. >> reporter: what was it like the past few days? >> reporter: what did you do? what was it like for you in jail these last few days? >> reporter: was it worth it, kim? kim, can you step up closer to the mike just to talk about the experience for the last few days. >> she'll do that at the appropriate time. kim has gone through an incredible amount. today itself has been an emotional day. she had no idea this was coming and she has just now had a few moments to speak with joe. >> she'll do that at the rally. >> she'll speak and give thank you to people who came here at the rally, but she will not speak about the substance of the case. >> reporter: not violating her conscience doesn't answer the question. >> you'll find out in the near future. >> reporter: tomorrow morning, really. >> we've had the same request.
accommodate her religious convictions. there is a simple way to do that. >> reporter: does this keep her out of jail for good? >> kim will do her job and she won't violate her conscience. >> thanks to matt staver, his representation of kim. most of all, thanks to this incredibly brave lady who decided that the courage of her convictions was more important than simply even her own freedom. and she was willing to go to jail for what she believed. she has ignited something across this country where people are tired of the tyranny of judicial action that takes people's freedoms away, takes their basic fundamental constitutional rights and puts them in jeopardy, and a tyranny of a legislative court that believes that can it make up law and somehow find a way to enforce it. i told kim today that i feel like she has shown more courage than most any politician i know
and most every pastor i know because she has not only said something, she has been willing to put her life at risk in order to follow it. the christ that came into her life four years ago. and that's a bold declaration of the authenticity of her faith and the reality of it. the fact that so many people have come from all over the country to be here at this rally today for her, they came because they wanted her to be free. what we could not have known when this was planned a week ago was that on the day that everyone comes they get to watch her walk out of this jail. but we stand with kim today, with gratitude and appreciation and for her husband joe, who i appreciate for standing with his wife and in no way doing anything other than being proud that she was willing to pay the price to even go to jail to maintain the clarity of her
conscience. and kim, we are all grateful for you, and thank god for you. delighted to be with you today and standing with you today. >> reporter: the judge told her she cannot interfere with the process of handing out these licenses. what do you advise her to do when she returns to work tomorrow? >> that's a legal question for her. i have already told her that if somebody needs to go to jail i am willing to go in her place. i mean that because i'm tired of watching people being just harassed because they believe something of their faith. and we cannot penalize the christian faith or anybody's faith in this country. and i'm praying that there will be remedies that do not involve putting someone in jail for their convictions. especially when the issue is whether the courts can just make a law out of thin air and then somehow try to apply it and punish people for not obeying something that isn't even a law.
>> mr. staver on friday -- [ inaudible ] . is that the case or not? if so, what does she plan to do tomorrow? >> licenses that were issued were issued without the authority of the clerk of rowan county. and they are not valid. there are criminal laws in kentucky that say that, if you issue a license to someone that is not authorized by statute, that there are criminal penalties for that. kim davis, because of the 5-4 opinion that happened on june 26th, chose to not issue any licenses because of the serious criminal penalty to wrongfully issue a license. you cannot just voluntarily change the certificate. you cannot issue a license to those that are not authorized under kentucky law. and the general assembly has not
met to clarify the licenses in kentucky. so kim davis cannot, number one, violate her conscience, but she is not -- she is going to -- she is going to also follow the kentucky law, which is a very serious violation for wrongfully issuing a license. >> reporter: we've got a lot of people waiting in the hot sun. >> we're going to get her out to meet with joe. >> reporter: kim, was it worth it for you? yes or no? >> thank you, guys. >> let me say that kim will come out at the very end. i know there are a lot of people here that came from washington state, from parts of mexico and texas and around the country, around the texas-mexico border just to say thank you for kim. she will speak briefly to thank those people who came to support her as far as further substantive discussion on the
merits of the case with media, we will make whatever arrangements that we need to as time goes on this week and next week for kim to address what she needs to. we'll be having to meet with her as her attorneys to consider the next step. we still have appeals in the process. and kim plans to return back to work. she is not going to abandon her job or her people. so she'll continue her job. but i can tell you she has been in this jail for six days. she is not getting out because she violated her conscience. her conscience remains clear today, as it was when she first walked into the jail cell, and it will remain clear in the future. >> reporter: back to work tomorrow or when? >> you've been watching live kim davis not saying anything. her attorney, matt staver of the
liberty institute and governor mike huckabee calling kim davis a brave lady that she did not defy her conscience. leaving very open-ended the question of what she will do when she goes back to work tomorrow. i want to deal back in. andrew napolitano, the judge here. because i was quite surprised. i don't know if you were. he left this question open about what she is going to do. >> i was equally as surprised as you, gretchen. here we have a compromise crafted by a federal judge, under a lot of stress because this lady was incarcerated. in my view she shouldn't have been, but she was. she is not a criminal. she was in the jail, and they crafted the compromise. the compromise is five of her six deputies will sign these marriage licenses. if you want to get married, you can get married. same-sex or opposite-sex. now we have her lawyer coming out and saying she might not go along with this. she might stave the hands of her deputies and prevent them from
signing the licenses. if that happens we'll be right back here and i hate to say it, she'll probably be right back in there. >> that's why i asked you before she came out whether or not this document will be upheld, because if she is still the county clerk, and even though these five deputies have taken under oath a -- you know, agreed that they would sign it, can she say as the county clerk, i don't allow you to do that? >> the document to which you refer is an order signed by judge bunning. it purports to be an amicable resolution, an agreed-upon compromise. if one of the parties, namely kim davis, does not go along with the compromise, it will then be incumbent upon judge bunning to remove from her office the authority to issue marriage licenses for same-sex couples and to repose that authority in some other office in this county government. he is obliged to do that because the supreme court has ruled that same-sex couples must have the
same right and the same path to marriage as opposite-sex couples. >> if he does that she won't go back to jail. >> she won't go back to jail. she won't be issuing or denying marriage licenses for same-sex couples. some other office in the same county government, with the same ease with which opposite-sex licenses are issued would issue the same-sex marriage licenses. >> would that be for all licenses? she stopped signing off on any marriage licenses. >> i can't predict the future. it would seem to be easier if one office issues all offices. the equal protection clause of the constitution, as interpresented by the supreme court says there is no difference between the two licenses. >> at what point does it move away from fighting for a cause or move to only fighting for a cause, i should say, rather
than -- i don't know. it just seems to me now that the lawyer was going to go to continue to fight for the cause. >> well, as i read the order by judge bunning, which you have y released her and which set forth the reasons for the release, it sounded like a fair and reasonable compromise, to which she consented, but when we heard her lawyer with mike huckabee a few minutes ago, mat staver, sounds like he doesn't want to go along with it because he wants to fight for the cause, the right of a local county clerk to resist the supreme court rather than the right of his client to stay out of jail and to do her government job. >> stand by, we are still watching on the other side of the screen this massive rally. governor mike huckabee with mat staver, kim davis' attorney now at the podium. one more question for you, judge, while we're waiting. kim davis said nothing when she was standing there. do you have any idea from a
legal point of view or just because she's going to at some point grant her interview to somebody exclusively? >> i think either grant or interview to someone exclusively or come on last after mike huckabee, after ted cruz if he speaks and after mat staver, the lawyer. >> they said maybe she'd address the podium here but not talk about any specifics in this case, so it will be interesting to see what she says if she does come to the podium. >> she may not have spoken to the deputies who agreed to do it yet and may not have established any rapport or procedure yet. >> it sounds according to her lawyer like may not agree to this. let's see if we can glean anything else. >> six days she's been able to hug and kiss her husband, joe. [ cheers and applause ] we want to allow her to have some time today and tonight with her husband, but she does want to come out at the end and thank all of you and then for the media, we will be talking to you
and making whatever arrangements that we need to, as we move forward. so we're going to start the program, and kim davis will come out at the very end to say thank you for your prayers, and for this amazing day. thank you. >> okay, so that was a short statement from mat staver with the liberty institute and governor mike huckabee and then we are going to be hearing from kim davis in just a few moments from now. let's go now to my political panel, they've been standing by watching this all happen for the last hour, simon rosenberg, president of ndn, democratic think tank, former bill clinton campaign adviser and larry o'connor, morning radio host in washington, editor-at-large for ijview.com. larry, let me start with you. what do you make of the unfolding events? >> well, it's remarkable to see governor huckabee and senator
cruz down there. of course they want to be president and i'm guessing when they're president they don't want, well, a practicing muslim applying sharia law with their accounting clerk somewhere. i know that's a provocative statement but listen, fellow republicans and conservatives i don't think should be holding kim davis up as some rosa parks. >> why? >> i'm not on her side on this. >> why? >> also let me say this. eight year ago candidate obama said to pastor rick warren he believes marriage is one man, one woman, because of his christian faith. four years later he sat counsel with robin roberts from abc news and said he personally believed in same-sex marriage but it should be left up to the states. three years later we've got the white house awash in rainbow lights as marriage is changed forever by the supreme court. that is a lot of change for americans to take in a very short period of time, and there's been no leadership from our president on this. you're going to see something like this happening and we should have some leadership now moving us through this new era in american culture.
sxwlu just sa >> you just said you don't agree with what kim davis is doing. if she personal a doesn't want to, that's one thing. many county clerks have done the same thing but to forbid anyone in her office to do the same it goes against principles i thought republicans and conservatives stood for which is the rule of law. we're not law and order party, not the other guy over there or is he on this side of me today. >> if you're in the same box because we're showing the rally at the compact same time so you're not right and left, maybe only in thinking. all right, so simon, i mean, larry brings up a very valid point, because the attorney was very ambiguous about what kim davis is going to do when she goes back to work today. it appears in this order from the judge that she was going to allow five deputies underneath here to sign the marriage licenses, her name would be removed. not sure now. what do you think? >> listen, i've learned a lot listening to judge in a poll poll ta know, thank god we had a
lawyer helping us navigate through all of this. >> no doubt. >> because it's very complicated and fast breaking. i like it when i agree with lar larry. doesn't happen very often on the show, gretchen but larry and i are in agreement. i think this is a lost cause. >> now i'm in trouble. >> now you're in trouble, larry, sorry about that. she's fighting a tough battle here. she's already lost in many ways and if they tomorrow get up and try to prevent licenses being granted by others after the compromise is made, i think it's going to look like they've quon too far. right now she gets to walk away having exercised her conscience, the law is implemented. basically both sides won but they may change that in the next 24 hours. >> i would say she did win because she didn't have to violate her own conscience and out of jail. governor mike huckabee says he would go into jail for her if he could. >> he's got to get some air time these days in the world of donald trump. listen, i haven't been to his
campaign stops lately but i'm guessing there are more people in the prisons than that scene i'm sorry >> low blow. >> it is. listen, governor mike huckabee is who he is and trying to make some political hay out of it. i wish there were not candidates couns down there right now. i love ted cruz but if he were president he'd want county clerks enforcing the law. >> looks like a big crowd down there now as we await mike huckabee to come back to the podium and kim davis. simon and larry thank you for changing topics and for your thoughts on this today. judge in a aponapolitano thank your expertise, much appreciated. >> sure. >> we'll be back after this.
at that huge rally going on in kentucky outside of the detention center. as you now know she was released from jail. i'm gretchen carlson. thanks for being here. here's shep. >> kim davis is out of jail, call couples in her county are getting marriage licenses. this case is far from over. we'll get you all the details on what her legal debate is now. the husband on trial accused of pushing his wife off a cliff. prosecutors say there's a pattern his first wife also died in some sort of freak accident. so let's get to it. tuesday afternoon, marriage licenses given to gay couples in one kentucky county are not valid, depending on what the judge says. that iscc