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tv   Justice With Judge Jeanine  FOX News  September 20, 2015 1:00am-2:01am PDT

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see you next week. [ applause ] i'm kind of excited to be here for several reasons, not the least of which i've been allocated three times more time than i got during three hours of the cnn debate. >> right now on "justice," the gloves are off. mike huckabee, still angry about the cnn debate, joins me live from a campaign stop in iowa. plus, he was once the front-runner, former presidential candidate, herman cain, joins me with his take on the gop hopefuls, including the man at the front of the line. and a reality check. what can the next president
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really do about the deal with iran? we'll take a closer look. justice starts now. hello and welcome to "justice." i'm judge jeanine pirro. thanks for being with us tonight. the gop candidates are back it a, many of them in iowa right now at the faith and freedom coalition's annual gathering. governor mike huckabee is one of those candidates and will join me live in just a few minutes. but first, let's take a look at some of the highlights from the campaign trail today so far. >> i brought my bible. see? i'm better than you thought. >> you will have a tough choice to make. you need to make the choice on who you can trust to go to washington d.c. and fight for all of the issues. >> i'm a good fighter, will tell you that, i'm a good firefightefirefighteghter and i win.
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i really win a lot. we will win. >> defense is not knee-jerk or red lines or not just tearing up agreements because it gets you a round of applause, it's being able to manage and maneuver and put the best interests of the united states first. >> i am prepared with your support, your prayers and with your votes, to lead the resurgence of this great nation because leadership is what is required now. so let us think about what a heater must do in the white house. >> the single greatest national security threat facing america is a threat of a nuclear iran. about a month ago i observed, if this deal goes through, the obama administration will become quite literally the leading financier op radical islamic terrorism in the world. now, in response to that, president obama got very upset. he said, what cruz said is
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ridiculous! you can't say that, you cannot use that rhetoric. well, let me give you a very very simple principle. truth is not rhetoric. >> when i get in, if i get in, you will be very very proud of me. we will be respected, believe me, and that deal will become much much better. i know you have a lot of people who say they will rip it up but they don't understand the way it works. i will take that deal. i do that. i buy contracts that are bad where people lost a fortune with a bad contract. i take the contract and scrutinize the contract and make it so brutal and i do good. >> america has been played as chumps sometimes and there comes a point we have to say america has always done not only its part but many many times over put it will not become a repository for every person who comes here, many of whom without the best intentions to love this
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country, to live in this country, to assimilate in this country and to accept the kind of life and freedom that we hold dear. >> and republican presidential candidate, governor mike huckabee, joins me live from iowa. good evening, governor. >> judge, it is great to talk to you. it's been a while. thank you for having me on. >> it's great to have you on, governor. let's talk about iowa. in 2008, you won the iowa cau s caucuses with 34% of the vote. right now, your iowa numbers are at 4%. why do you think that is? >> well, i think right now, a lot of people in iowa are doing what iowans do at this time of the game. they're shopping. that's pretty normal for the process. typically, judge, whoever has the summer blockbuster in the summer does not win the oscar in the spring. right now we're doing what one does to win iowa, we're building organization and structure and visiting all the counties.
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that's what we will continue to do up until the caucuses. i still believe we will win the caucuses come february. >> there's no question that you more than any other candidate have had more visits in iowa than any else. >> well, we have been here more. i've been to south carolina more than any of the other asked because i know ultimately that's what wins elections, not just media attention although we love to have it, and it's not even rallies, at this point, it's organization and it's also bu d building connections with individual voters who will start really looking at who they will vote for very seriously once it gets close to time. we're a long way from that process. >> let's talk about the debate the other night. you were upset about the fact you got nine minutes in a three hour debate and almost seems like the person who interrupts the most and keeps saying jake jake jake got in there to say
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what he or she wanted to say. what were the rules? >> obviously, there weren't many at all. we went in expecting there would be some, at least vague attempt to have an equal allocation of time. equality doesn't mean everybody will have the exact same number of minutes. there are 11 of us on the stage and hard to get us all in. i get that. we had three hours and 20 minutes. i was on the stage 45 minutes before i first got the question. i think part of it was i said from the beginning i will not get on the stage and play ping-pong and nasty statements with other republicans on that stage. part of me says i'm in the reagan library in front of air force one he flew all over the world in, ronald reagan's mandate to republicans was we treat each other with respect and don't eat each other alive. how inappropriate to be goaded into this food fight with other republicans. judge, let me tell you something, every person on that
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stage, i know they're my rivals, but i have respect for every single one of them. any one of those people on the stage, i believe, would be an improvement to the presidency to the occupant in the white house we have now. i won't spend my time dispara disparaging them, spend my time telling them why i ought to be the quarterback of the team and not break the legs of the people trying out for the job. >> it seems the one doing the most criticizing is the one at the head of the pack. maybe there is some reason to do that to get to the head of the pack. >> it could be. i'm going to have to wait and see how this plays out. i can't be anybody than who i am. it is not my nature to try to stick my fist in this face of somebody else and elbow my way through the nostrils of other people. i'm going to be assertive. i had to take some assertive action the other night to get any attention. but ultimately, i think people
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want to know do you have the temperament to be president, which means that there's a little bit of a sense of perspective. it's not all about me, it can't be. it needs to be all about the issues that american people are facing and i just wish we could have talked about more of them, like the infrastructure of the country, like social security and medicare. judge, there were so many things that never ever came up in three hours and 20 minutes, i find that distressing. >> did you think there was an agenda by cnn to try to get you guys and the woman on the stage, too, to go after each other just so you could trash each other and basically bring everyone down on that stage? was there an agenda? >> well, it seemed to be. in fact, they said before the debate their goal was not so much just to ask questions around the horn but to get the candidates to engage with each other. if you want to engage each other on substantive issues, but it was more about, hey, mr. trump, carly said something about you, would you like to react?
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carly, would you like to react to what mr. trump said? that's third grade stuff. we're running for president, not class president of the third grade. >> there's no question that's what seemed to have happened. you talk about who you are. let's talk about who you are. you were a pastor for many years. now, we have the pope who is coming to the united states. he's got some very progressive views not consistent with yours, you believe in banning aborti abortions, he's talking about this year of mercy and forgiving abortions and wants to talk about income inequality and climate change and going before congress. what do you make of all of this, governor? >> he's the leader of the catholic church. i'm not catholic but i have great respect for pope francis. i was a huge fan of pope john paul, ii and thought he remains to this day one of the greatest
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spiritual leaders in the history of christian dom. pope francis has not taken us on a different way, he still believes abortions are wrong but believes people who had abort n abortions can be forgiven. i'm not on a different page there with the pope. i do think the president has been amazing in trying to bring people to the audience of the pope and the white house, it almost appears to just force the pope to face people who have a very different moral perspective. and i don't know why the president would do that. it seems that the vatican is beginning to push back on that, as they should. the purpose is not to embarrass the pope or to confront him, it ought to be to welcome him as the spiritual leader of millions of catholics in america and across the world. >> what do you think about the fact he wants to speak and he thinks one of the most important issues today is climate change. you said there isn't necessarily any scientific data to support
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it. why would the pope be talking about that and income inequality opposed to cannon law, the doctrine of the church? >> i think that there is a very important place for nope to address income inequality as long as he doesn't believe the answer is that the government redistrict wealth. if we really want to fix income inequ inequality, the best way is to have people have decent jobs that pay good money and make sure you don't have an economy that punishes people for working we have right now. there are definitely ways to help with the issue of income n inequ inequality. the worst thing we could do is this socialistic idea of taking money from some and redistrib e redistributing it. caring for the poor, you bet that's a subject that the pope should talk about. climate change, look, the pope is entitled to the views that he wants to have. he's the pope. he doesn't need counsel or advice from me. i think we ought to hear him and listen to him.
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if we agree with him, let's applaud him. if we don't we still show him respect because he is the elected head of the catholic church. i respect that. >> what we've got now are tens of thousands of migrants cro crossing into croatia today and croatia setting up borders with wire fences and hungary pushing back. what would a president huckabee do about these migrants? what do we do about them? >> one thing we do, we need to begin insisting that the arab countries whose culture and language in which they would be most comfortable begin to accept responsibility for helping to house them. >> how do we do that? governor, how do we do that? >> whether we can force it or not, i think we make it very clear to the saudis and others in the middle east, look, we have made you rich by purchasing your energy. but we're not going to take all the problems of your region of
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the world, largely created because of the mismanagement of the whole issue of radical islam and we're not going to accept the responsibility for bringing people into a culture where they will not be comfortable, with a language they do not understand and cannot communicate in. this makes no sense. all the saudis have been willing to do so far is build 200 mos e mosques for people in another country, not even in their own. that's unacceptable. i think it's high time the united states not be played as chu chumps. sometimes we just allow ourselves to be played as chu chumps. >> in that regard, what about our southern border? are we chumps? >> it's got be secured. we are chumps. you bet we are. we're chumps not only in the fact we've not secured our border we should do in less than a year. we build a road between british columbia and alaska, 17 years ago 1700 miles long and built it in less than a year.
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judge, we can get the border secure if we have a president with the will to do it but we have to address the fact that nearly half of all the people here illegally came legally and overstayed their visas. that has to be one of our highest priorities as well. >> governor mike huckabee, good to see you as well. thanks for being with us this evening. >> good to be with you well. with us, white house security council under obama and fox news contributor, jillian. you say the whole crop of gop candidates are underqualified on foreign policy credentials. was barack obama qualified? >> that's a good question because the answer there is no. you know. but i was pointing out with this crop of candidates is that, you know, we just don't have the gop doesn't have like in the last round a john mccain, a senator who's really worked these issues from all different angles for
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deca decades. there's nobody who comes out really like a heavy hitter on national security. at this point, the candidates are laying out their agendas. but that's all we have. we don't have a proven track record with any of these. >> okay. you say, though, you seem to be a big fan of carly fiorina, that she performed very well. what foreign policy experience does she have? >> she has none when it comes to what i appreciate about her is that she delivers a lot of substance and a lot of specifics. she's demonstrated that she's really taken the time already not just to beef up on these issues, as some of the candidates like to say, but she knows the issues, just in the debate alone, she laid out more specifics in one sentence than a lot of the other candidates did the entire evening. at the end of the debate about the discussion about military force structure, she laid out
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very succinctly precise numbers for the entire -- all four branches of the military. there's nobody else thinking at that level of detail at this time. >> you know, there are those, and i'm sure you've seen the reports the next day who felt she was steely and robotic. she has not really in grairbi e grairbiated herself to the american people. she's book smart, we know that, on issues she hasn't had a chance to deal with. what does she need to do, gillian? >> that's something i felt, too. i get people are sensitive about this because they don't like to say as a woman, she's not being friendly and warm and fuzzy. that aside, i did feel the steeliness you mentioned. the only way i would push back against you on that is that's really style. she can work on that but the substance was there. she talked about nuances i don't think the other candidates get. she talked about the importance
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of, you know, increasing the strength and health of the six fleet, talked about arming our allies, the kurds, not something like donald trump that will confuse the kurds with the kuds force. >> thanks for being with us. another man who knows about running for president, herman cain, get his take on the man currently leading in the polls, donald trump. just days away from the pope's historic u.s. visit, i sit down to the man who wrote the book on pope francis and what he says about the pontiff's supporters and his critics. when new polls skas
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this week, political outsiders continue to dominate the 2016 gop race for the white house. trump, fiorina and carson dominating the conversation and the campaign trail. with me, someone who knows exactly what it's like to be a political outsider.
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previous campaign presidential candidate, and businessman, her man cain. herman cain. >> what were your thoughts as you watched the debate the other night? >> first, i would agree with governor huckabee when he was on your show earlier, when he said the questions were not substantive enough. and i heard that from my callers. out of the 11 people on the stage, there were 10 winners because each of them had their moment and all demonstrated what i considered to be the most important thing about being president. number one, did they show leadership qualities? i think 10 out of 11 did. number two, did they show a grasp of what the issues are and how to solve problems. experience foreign policy-wise is not something somebody will have until they have access to all the information the
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president gets. when your previous guest was talking about, well, they don't have any foreign policy experience, the current president didn't have any foreign policy experience but he also is not a leader! i'm looking for a leader in the next president of the united states. >> herman, i have to -- you said 10 out of 11, 10 out of 11. you said it twice. who's that one? >> senator rand paul unfortunately does not impress me like the other 10 impress me. it's too early to pick any one particular one that i would vote f for, but it's not too early to start narrowing the field down to the 10 that i believe would be a good commander in chief. >> all right. you are, as a front-runner four years ago, you're a businessman, head of a huge pizza chain. now we've got a front-runner, donald trump, also a businessman
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and out ssider like you. he and carly fiorina going back and forth on their business experience, does that matter? >> no, it does not. that was how cnn was sort of orchestrating it. people can read about their backgrounds by going to their websi websites. i would have preferred more questions about what would you replace the tax code with? how would you get control of our spiralling national debt. how much would you rebuild our military? substantive things. too much of it was spent, with that many candidates on the stage, not talking about important matters. when mike huckabee finally said something about the fair tax, i was jumping up and down, hip hip hooray, we were talking about something important rather than he said she said. >> hopefully it will be more important. you were a front-runner, donald trump is a front-runner now. what does it take to get that
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longevity to maintain the front-runner status. >> in my case, if i had not been falsely viciously attacked i could have been in the race a long time and could have very well gotten the nomination. you see, the opposition or whoever was behind it did just enough to plant a seed of doubt in the court of public opinion. when some doubt is in the court of public opinion, that's when your contributions go down and you don't have the money to sustain your campaign. donald trump doesn't have that problem and people are already starting to dig up old things he said to use against him. he will have to do a couple of things, number one, not focus on that and number two, not continue with the personal assau assaults, but number three, start talking about substantive issues and the rest of them will follow him. >> herman cain, good to talk to you. yes or no, glad you're out of politics? >> i'm glad to be. >> fast, i have to go.
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you can't answer, can you? all right. you coming back, herman? >> no. i can tell you that. no. i'm glad to be out. >> what can a new president do about the new iran deal if it passes? i'm joined next by a supporter and critic of the deal. breaking news, the suspect of the aricuation orders
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still in effect for lake county destroying homes and killing eight people. back to the judge. breaking tonight, the suspect in that string of arizona highway shootings is talking. we'll go live in the west coast bureau with the details. will. >> good evening, judge. leslie merit junior is the prime suspect according to authorities here. today, they ended up laying out part of their case against him. these shootings started on august 29th and shortly there after detectives used bullets in the cars that had been shot to
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determine the exact type of gun they're looking for, a handgun. they went to pawn shops in the areas and using ballistics from one state crime lab it matched. the test fired bullets were a match to bullet fragments from four cases, four casings over the last weekend in august. >> that landed merritt behind bars. he faces a slew of felony charges and the judge imposed a million dollars cash bond and also ignored advice from the judge to talk without his attorney present, saying he is not the i-10 shooter. >> all i have to say is i'm the wrong guy. i tried telling the detectives that. my gun's been in the pawn shop the last two months. i haven't even had access to a weapon. >> here's what we know about merritt, a landscaper, 21 years
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old and father of two and a big gun enthusiast. on his facebook video of himself firing guns, set to appear in court next friday. even with him behind bars, there is the potential there is a copycat for other shootings and leaving in place a 50,0$50,000 reward that could potentially lead to more arrests. >> will carr, thanks so much. this week, president obama talks about how he thinks the country is doing. take a look. >> despite the perennial doom and gloom i guess is inevitable in a presidential campaign. ng right now. america is great right now. >> that's right. you heard it from our commander in chief. america is winning. my next guest doesn't quite see it that way and believes the iran nuclear deal is a dangerous one. former florida congressman and
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retired army general, good evening, colonel, is america winning? >> no, america is not winning. and the indicator is the federal reserve keeping interest rates artificially low. unemployment rate is not 5%, we have 93 million americans dropped from the rolls and our participation rate is the lowest than 37, 38 years. when you have russia landing paramilitary force and fighter jets in syria because of the void you have left and created, when you have an administration that has gone into an incredibly idiotic deal with iran that will allow them to become an economic and military and nuclear power, there is no way we're winning and definitely not in the eyes of other global leaders. >> all right, colonel, i want to talk about the nuclear deal and what has happened.
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the president signed a law in 2015 that required this iran deal contain information that must be delivered to congress before congress can vote on it. that included the annexes and any addendums. the president and kerry now say the iaea, international atomic energy agency has its own agreement with iran and we don't know what it says. isn't that contrary to the very law the president himself signed? >> when has president obama ever adhered to any law that he has signed to include the rule of law, the united states constitution. you're absolutely right. not having disclosure of these side deals with the iaea in iran, which we have come to know somewhat that it deals with the military complex iran says they will be able to inspect themselves, this agreement should not go forth. the fact you had 42 senate democrats by way of the filibuster block the resolution for disapproval of even coming
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to the senate floor, you have to start asking, are we getting very close to a sense of treachery and treason against the united states of america. >> what are you saying, colonel? >> i'm saying very simply, who are these people putting forth? are they putting forth the united states of america or political interest of one president obama. if you're putting the president's interest above this country -- >> i'm running out of time. how does obama benefit by this? >> i think the only thing he gets is an exhibit in his presidential library that says he did something no one else did. i have to tell you, it is a very dumb thing he is doing. >> a pleasure to have you as our guest. >> fox co-host on "the five," juan williams. what do you think of anybody who says they will rip up the iran
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deal on day one. >> they can. >> how does this -- >> and status quo in this middle east, which is a very dangerous place and we're trying to have some vision how you can make the middle east a more workable situation for american interests and more protective of israel. >> how is giving 10$100 billionr 1$150 billion in the interest o stabilizing the middle east because now we have tehran the biggest supporter of terrorism in the world which is what we say and now we're lining their pockets. explain that to me. >> we're not lining their pockets, that was their money. we wanted to get them through the sanctions to come to the table to negotiate in order to stop them from developing nuclear weapons. that's our goal and that's what we used the sanctions to do and we got them to the table and got a deal to keep them from developing nuclear weapons for 15 years. everybody agrees on that point.
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>> are you comfortable with the verification program which is basically we don't know what it is but iaea and iran have a deal we can't verify or supervise. they send a soil sample. i'd go to arizona and get soil and send it to them. how will they know? >> you're smarter than the average guy. we're not interested in the iaea so much, that's their deal with iran. we have deal with iran that requires for the existing nuclear facilities we can check them. we're talking 24 days. >> 24 days. >> right. that is for facilities that have not been used for nuclear development so far. that's the maximum, judge, not the minimum. you have the european community and chinese and russians inve invested in making sure iran holds to this deal. >> what about the fact only 21% of americans support this deal?
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yet because of all the maneuvererings in congress, it never even got to the floor. isn't that an insult to the american people. almost 50% disagree and 30% don't know enough about it and 21% approve it. yet congress snubbed their nose at us and said we're going to fix this, we're going to get this through. >> i think there's a lot of partisanship involved and that's who we are at the moment as american people. people line up along political lines and right now the republicans are unified in opposition to this deal as obama deal. they don't like obama and don't trust obama and certainly don't trust the iranians chanting death to america and promise israel won't exist in 25 years. i think a lot of it is reaction to the anger dom r comr -- comi from iran and -- that's a lot of the politics. >> you said it yourself. don't you think we're justified? i want you to look at some pictures. these are pictures of someone
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from the united states a businessman gave to me, he just returned from tehran. the first thing you see there is a government building with a flag on it. at the bottom of each of the stripes are bumps, and where the stars should be are skulls. let's go to the next picture. the next picture is an image of the united states flag split in half outside of the embassy, where people have to walk on the united states flag to get in. then, the third picture we have, that was given to me is one outside the old u.s. embassy where they have a picture of the soldier from the iranian guard standing on both the flag of israel as well as the flag of the united states. i mean, we are justified in not trusting these people. we should probably be fighting them as opposed to delivering loads of cash. >> let me ask you a question, judge, imagine they were showing this show and judge jeanine
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pirro in iran tonight. they say, my gosh, look how the judge talks about iran, how can we trust the united states? >> i'm not talking about them, i'm showing you pictures from government buildings. it's not about me, it's about them. >> it is about you. you're a powerful voice for americans. >> you know what, i'm proud of my voice, tell them that. >> exactly. you're really smart and i'm proud you're on this channel. if the iranians are watching this, could say look how the americans are talking about the irani iranians. be honest, you don't trust them one iota. >> i don't trust them one iota and don't trust verification. >> they don't trust us. >> we're giving them the cash. >> we entered into a deal- - >> the criminal gives up the money, they're not entitled to get it back. good-bye, juan. >> it's their money. i'm saying just like ronald reagan -- >> i have you on next week.
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pope francis arrived in cuba today days before his first trip over to the u.s. earlier today i spoke to vatican correspondent, david willie, author of the new book "the promise of pope francis." >> david, thank you for being here. i read your book "the promise of francis." in your book you talk about the man, the pope and the challenge of change. this pope, is certainly moving the catholic church in a completely different direction, is he not? >> he's moving the church in a different direction from prior papp pappass. he's not going to change the doctrine but stresses the importance of not obeying rules blindly but showing a merciful
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attitude in everything concerning the moral duties of people. >> one of the things, when you say a merciful attitude, he has this year of mercy where a couple weeks ago i heard him talking about forgiving women who have committed quote the mortal sin of abortion and scream lining annulment so more catholics who have been divorced can remarry in the catholic church. there are those that criticize the pope and say this is about catholic teaching and cannon law, not about being merciful. >> they should read the fine print. if you look at the exact words of the pope, he's very careful as to the way he phrases his suggestions as how the church should go forward. you have to look at him in the context of where he came from in argentina. don't forget also he's a jesuit. the jesuits are very kani
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people. he is a super pope, in the sense of he's received great intellectual training but he's not going to betray the basic beliefs of the catholic church. all he's doing is telling his flock behave in a more merciful way and remember god always forgives you your since. >> yet we hear from this pope about climate change, how man's culpability is involved in climate change. it seems to be along with his efforts to put cuba and the united states together to re-establish relations and he seems more of a politician than the pope. >> no, i think he's got his eye very squarely on the ball in the sense that he takes his global responsibilities very seriously indeed. he's looking forward very much to this trip to the united states. >> he is the fourth pope to visit the united states, but the
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first to address a joint session of congress. why would he do that? >> he wants to give his message that he wrote in his in cyclical about the duty of christians to look after creation. he's got very interested in climate change because he says we are polluting the world. the interesting thing is that he's written this letter, a long 178 pages, much of which is devoted to the scientific arguments about climate change. he is not a climate change de denier. i think he's going to meet quite a lot of people in this united states who challenge him on this. >> i don't think there's any question about it and the push back has already started in some of the catholic blogs and some more conservative bishops. when we talk about the pressing problems, global warming may be important to this pope but to a
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lot of his flock in the middle east where mass was not celebrated on christmas eve in mosul, where artifacts are being destr destroyed, we have a warming. and to some, it's somewhat disconcerting. but let me ask you one more question. do you think he will meet with the survivors of sexual abuse of the clergy, given his reputation for kind of just giving a sense of that was wrong, but not really stacking, as you call it, the bishops who are responsible for the cover-up? >> yes, i think he will meet a group of victims of sexual abuse. he's done this his previous visit when he traveled. and i think this pope will continue. but the pope has many problems. if you read my book, you'll have seen that he's in a sense at war on many fronts. not the least of the diminishing christian presence in the middle east. because don't let's forget, many of these countries undergoing
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civil war, are the seat of ancient christian communities, wiped out by civil war. he's very worried indeed. this is one of his priorities to maintain the christian presence in the land where jesus christ lived and died. >> all right, david, fascinating book. it will be a fascinating week next week when the pope is here. thanks so much for being with us from rome. >> my pleasure. we'll be right back with our instapoll results. oh, look. we have a bunch of...
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it's time now for the results of tonight's instapoll. will donald trump still be the clear front-runner in the republican race? yes, of course. donald trump will be our next president, period. jesse says, donald will always be the front-runner, regardless of the polls. what really counts is the american voter. meg says, i think carly fiorina will be in the lead soon, and may even be the first woman president. and ruth said, donald trump is the only person qualified to fix this country. we are in big, big trouble and he's the only person who can make america great again. thanks for the great responses. i always love reading what you think. make sure you logon and send me
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your thoughts on the show. plus, photos like this one. here i am thursday night with law enforcement officers from lake charles, louisiana. and by the way, did you know that today is national thank a police officer day? so thank you to those officers and all those across the country who keep us safe every day. that's it for us tonight. remember, you don't ever have to miss justice. set your dvr, tell your friends to do the same, and thank you for joining me. friend me on facebook, follow me on twitter. see you next week, same time, same place.
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nexium can take 24 hours. when heartburn strikes, take zantac for faster relief than nexium or your money back. take the zantac it challenge. it is julie banderas and this is the fox report. ahead this hour, pope francis making a historic visit to cuba before coming to the united states later this week. plus, heart attack. investigators release the details on the short and tragic life of baby doe. brand new details on how police finally put a name to the face. republican presidential candidates out in force today on the campaign trail. that is live donald trump speaking in des moines, iowa. he sounded off overhe


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