tv Outnumbered FOX News October 23, 2015 9:00am-10:01am PDT
hour. jenna: "outnumbered" starts right now. sandra: this is "outnumbered," harris falkner, but democratic strategist at fox news contributor julie and republican candidate for president kentucky senator rand paul is with us and he is an author by the way. our presidents and their prayers is in stores now. i have to remind you, you are "outnumbered". >> thank you for having me. i think i am glad to be here. i will let you know in the next 30 minutes. after 30 minutes i will decide whether i want to stay.
>> we have one on the coffee table. welcome. let's get right to it. the high drama on the hill. republicans grilling hillary clinton for 11 hours on the benghazi terror attack. jim jordan may have had one of the most memorable moments when he went after hillary for saying in private on the night of the attack that was terrorists who took the lives of four americans but publicly claiming it was sparked by protests over an anti islam the deal. >> you said to your family here is what you said, at 11:00 that night, one hour after you told the american people, you say to your family, two which killed today by an al qaeda like group. on the night of the attack, with the president of libya, what you said to him, sharia is claiming responsibility, you knew the truth, that is not what the american people got.
>> if you look at the statements that i may i clearly said it was an attack and i also said there were some who tried to justify -- >> trey gowdy wanting to know why sidney blumenthal had some much access to the secretary of state while the claims ambassador stevens had practically none. >> it is eminently fair-ask why sidney blumenthal had unfettered access to you, madam secretary, with whatever he wanted to talk about and there's not a single solitary e-mail to or from you to or from ambassador stevens. >> he had no official position in the government and he was not at all my adviser on libya. he was a friend to send me information that he thought might be in some way helpful. >> as you can imagine tempers flared. ranking democrat elijah cummings saying republicans were just trying to bring down the
democratic front runner with gotcha questions. >> you have laid it out, this is not been done perfectly, you wish you could do it another way and the statement you made a few minutes ago when you said i have given more thought to this from all of you combined, i don't know what we want from you. do we want to badger you over and over again until you get tired? >> illinois's peter rodham took clinton to task for taking credit for what was supposed to be a success story in libya until was no longer politically convenient. >> use that i am the diplomat here, driving the policy. isn't it true that you had been thinking about getting political credit for months on this? >> no. >> you were thinking about credit for you. >> no. i wanted those who were part of
this policy to be given recognition. >> susan brooks pressed clinton on the last time she spoke to ambassador chris stevens. >> did you ever talk to ambassador stevens when all of this was going on in a the hotbed of libya? that is a yes or no question. did you ever personally speak to ambassador stevens? we don't know the answer. did you ever personally speak to him after you were sworn in in a? yes or no. >> yes, i'd believe i did. >> when was that? >> i don't recall. >> it captivates me again seeing a second time. what was your take overall on the fiery exchanges and the hearings in general? >> the last question reminds me what i asked her when she came before my committee, did you read the cables?
for more security? in the last month before the attack colonel would have had the last remaining security force, 60 man security force, they were saying there's a possibility of being overrun, they were sending table after table, ambassador stevens sends a cable, not an e mail, a cable which is an important communication from the ambassador to hillary clinton directly to her. i said you read the cable and she said no. she was busy building this lineage, flying all-around world, going everywhere and yet this was one of the most dangerous places in the world asking more security and this is incredibly important because i think we need to learn from our history and when you want to be commander-in-chief, you want someone who will defend our diplomatic missions and she failed not once but dozens of times, they ask her for more security, nine month period they kept asking for more security and everytime she denied the security.
>> how does he walk away from those hearings yesterday? do you think public perception of her change? >> yes. if you like hillary clinton before you thought she did a great job, she took questions for 11 hours, donald trump couldn't take a 3 hour debate. i got to ask you are you willing to put more money into security? put more money in the budget? congress drastically cut the state department budget and i find it interesting people talking about more security for benghazi. >> one of the interesting things if you look at the money and where the responding the money leading up to the attack in benghazi in that summer hillary clinton approve $100,000 to send three comedians to india, hillary clinton spent 650,000 hours on facebook ads, they didn't have enough friends, she spent $700,000 on landscaping for the brussels embassy and here is the clincher.
what is the tune in point? if we have a picture of two sacks of e-mail is one of those moments you looked up to see what was happening which i wonder if americans have paid that much attention. the big pile you see on the left are from 2001 regarding libya janelles hillary was sending back. she had a pile of 67 for 2012. what happened? did she lose interest? did they lose a bunch of e-mails? there are a lot of questions whether she had her eye on the ball. >> how are you sending one e-mail to the prime minister of egypt acknowledging this was an attack and sending someone out repeatedly to deceive the american people and talk about is idiot issue that got wound up in jail. that begin the story. the video became the story instead of what should have been the story which this administration was doing a terrible job when it came to terrorism, terrible job maintaining peace in libya.
they wanted a narrative, that is clear right now. my question is if you look at her bowling, look at trust issues, honesty, people really doubt that with her. when they see this the american public is going to say it was the fog of war or this will impact in the same way the e-mail scandal has. >> what i take from this is more important than that e-mails, more important than the spin afterwards, for nine months proceeding benghazi, it appears on multiple occasions when they ask for more security, they ask more sandbags, more soldiers, they redeem night but there's another story here also. why were we in libya and was it a good idea? hillary clinton was the biggest proponent, but in president obama, we need to topple gaddafi. if you look at libya is a failed state, there is no government, a third of those in the pledge of allegiance to isis. not only did she not provide adequate security for benghazi, she was a proponent of a war that made things less stable and
made it worse and made it more likely -- >> at times during this hearing, an interesting degree for hillary clinton that she has lost more sleep than the entire benghazi panel. >> i would imagine i have fought more about what happened and all of you put together. i have lost more sleep than all of you put together. i have been wracking my brain about what more could have been done. >> i don't know how to qualify that. don't know if you stay awake during it. >> the point she is bringing that up. >> why wouldn't she bring that up? she was secretary of state, it happened on her watch and she took responsibility and she never said this is not my fault,
she took responsibility for it. you go on to say she could have done -- i had dinner with the former ambassador yesterday and when this stuff happens you don't call the secretary of state, you call the regional security officer, the diplomatic security and that is the you call. for anyone to say hillary clinton purposely let this man died is a horrible thing to say and goes too far end when you have responses like that people say this is no longer legitimate investigation. this is just going after her for partisan reasons. if she were running for president she would not spend 11 hours testifying. >> last word, do we walk away from this hearing learning anything new? you alluded to the public perception is not changing after this. >> i don't question whether hillary clinton was concerned or feels bad about it. that is not for me to question her feelings about it but we have to question her judgment. she is running to the president
of the united states and was a judgment good? geo oversee a state department that provided adequate security? did she oversee a state department advised the best counsel in libya? what is the best cal's to topple gaddafi? one thing you know from the middle east, when we stopple secular dictators we see a rise in radical islam and we are at more risk of attack from libya than before they topples gaddafi. one other example. in somalia, blackhawk down, call that was a terrible disaster, has been turned down an equipment, bill clinton would have let hillary clinton go for not doing her job. >> i wonder if anybody will be let go.
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>> the pentagon is identifying those soldier killed in a daring raid against the islamic state in iraq. used 39 years old master sergeant jostle wheeler of rowland, okla. special operations officer who died of wounds sustained in a mission to rescue dozens of iraqi hostages facing what we are told was imminent execution by isis. the first time an american service member has been killed in the coalition fighting against isis. the administration is refusing to call the overall u.s. severed their combat and is sticking to the terms treating and assisting. and development this one, new report shows isis is more evil and dead leaves and ever with an increasingly attacks in the past
three months, an insurgency center did the research. we now know there have been more than one thousand attacks worldwide, 42% increase. when i hear this and i hear the back-and-forth, words do matter. words matter. wherever this man was and what he was doing is different if we are training and advising. tell me why the word matters. >> this is an incredibly brave young man who gave his life for his country and all the things we believe in, the constitution, the bill of rights and our freedom and it is sat and will be said for his family, sometimes it makes a difference as to how he is remembered through the honors he will get as a soldier so is important. i don't know all the details of what it will be but i think is important to honor his sacrifice and what he did for us. >> does it speak to the larger issue of weird doing of there
that we can't even labeled it? >> it is a struggle. sometimes we have war when there are variations of evil on both sides of the war, people want them to be simple. bashar al-assad is evil, isis, you want to bomb both sides which is a ridiculous kind of thing to do but we have to analyze what has happened so far. we put a lot of arms into the syrian civil war and in doing so, saudi arabia put 600 tons of weapons in 2013, we pushed back bashar al-assad, but there has been a vacuum and isis grew in that space. i was one of the leading voices in 2013 saying to the president even though bashar al-assad is evil dictator, evil person in charge of syria, and didn't want to bomb hidden because my fear was isis would be in charge of all of syria. isn't any solution. >> we talk about this on the
recklessly has an engagement for which there might not be a resolution. for better or worse iraq invaded russia and so did syria, they both invited russia to fly over their airspace. there isn't any easy solution but recently like carly fiorina says she won't talk to vladimir putin, my goodness, ronald reagan who most republicans think was a great president continued to talk to the russians throughout the whole -- >> with nukes pointed at us. >> moving on, paul ryan is in it to win it. launching his bid to be the next speaker of the house. how will he face the head wind of a deeply divided gop conference with critical deadlines coming up? john kerry huddling with his russian counterpart trying to chart a new pact in syria like we were talking about with the senator. wonder what that conversation is going like. do the russians listen to us anymore? s. that's a win.
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>> welcome back, congressman paul ryan making it official, declaring his bid for house speaker after securing support from the three major political factions in the house gop conference. ryan faces election in a closed-door meeting with his republican colleagues. on the house floor, if elected he faces along list of challenges including a november 3rd deadline to raise the debt limit or face an unprecedented default. and a december 11th deadline on a messed-spending measure to keep the government up and running. not to mention trying to unify what has been a pretty fractured lower chamber. a lot of conservatives are not so happy with this pick. they feel the freedom caucus sold out, paul ryan is a guide backed by the establishment. they are afraid john boehner light. will he work on these issues or will conservatives continue to be frustrated?
>> i think the biggest and happiness for the thing causing the most unrest and unhappiness about who republicans across the country as they see republicans control the house, republicans control the senate and they say what are you guys doing? how come spending is going up and deficit is going up and the excuses from washington, people in washington say we can't, we don't have the presidency, people are frustrated and tired of it so whether or not he succeeds or not the real question is are republicans in washington going to get a handle on spending. i frankly would not raise the debt ceiling unless we had significant reform so i introduced something called cuts, a cap and balance, cut the deficit in half, cap spending, have balanced budget, the constitution says no more, we are done with this, and -- >> sounds like a great idea but do you think establishment republicans will get behind that? conservatives out here constantly look at republicans and say this is another version
of the left, the number is getting bigger in terms of the debt and they feel when you suggesting like that is a dead end and they're not sure paul ryan will be a vehicle to make that happen. >> that is what elections are about. we put forward our ideas and republicans accept them or democrats accept them. if they don't we have an election again and you decide do you want to keep electing the same people who are unwilling to do anything and we will tell you in 2011 the president said on the debt ceiling we had a big debt ceiling fight, he said i will not negotiate with a gun to my head. renegotiated. leverage works but only if you are steadfast, only if you are courageous and only if you say i am willing to go -- the interesting thing about defaulting, we bring in $250 billion a month in tax revenue, interest on the debt down $30 billion so we have plenty of money to pay the interest and social security, medicare and soldiers' salaries and that is it.
borrow million dollars a minute you will destroy the country so i did and run for office because i wanted to be governing or in charge of something. i didn't need to be in charge of something. i was worried about the country that we were borrowing $1 million a minute. default and shutdown versus throwing a one million dollars a minute. if we continue to do the same, government or any republican, paul ryan or others come in and their main goal is to govern and not to reform, that will not go well. >> $1 million a minute. let's go on to syria. we talked about it and we go deeper, john kerry is meeting with his russian counterpart for the very first time, a one on one meeting since moscow started launching air strikes over syria next month and also meeting with diplomats from turkey and saudi arabia as the white house tries to restart a diplomatic process to stop the syrian civil war and if possible, get rid of bashar al-assad.
earlier this week as you may know, bashar al-assad made a surprise visit to moscow to thank vladimir putin for those airstrikes and what appears to be a show of defiance to the west and russia's everett to become an e essential power broker in the region, have we lost our mojo? has russia and the rest of the world taking this seriously? >> the most important thing we have to debate, presidential candidates and others, should we be diplomatically engaged or should we diplomatically isolate ourselves? many of a people when i was debating with other republicans were saying we shouldn't talk to vladimir putin, we shouldn't talk to china. that is a form of diplomatic isolationism and i don't think that is what we should be doing. we should engage. does that mean russia will always do what we want? no. i think it is important. i don't know if john kerry will get it right but it is important for him to talk to russia and we should not stop that. >> a lot of people are dying today whether it is the civil war that is happening in syria
or the people isis is taking out, we don't have a lot of time. i look at this in the tapestry of what you were talking about, the common-sense view of staying engage diplomatically. is there something else we need to be doing? >> we should also try not to do harm and that means not get involved with unintended consequences that make it worse. by supporting the islamic radicals many of whom turned out to be jihadists, many were al qaeda and many turned out to be isis in the syrian civil war, we supported bashar al-assad and never should have. we allowed them to grow stronger. we didn't create isis but we allowed isis to be in the space in a vacuum where they were allowed to grow larger and we are worse off for it. we would have been better probably not supporting evil on either side of that war. >> a legitimate point. every time i hear about the united states should we do more, what more should we be doing?
the inevitable answer is boots on the grounds in syria, libya, iraq, this is spreading all over the place and next thing you know we are engaged in the middle east for over a decade ending 54100 years and as you know, we don't know when they will leave, we can't prop up this regime. >> in benghazi, what is the american interest we have in syria? we have an embassy in baghdad that needs to be protected, we have a consulate in kurdistan that has to be defended. we do have to have some involvement. can we amplify allies? can we help the kurds? i think we should also but the real question is do we want to send our sons and daughters by hundreds of thousands back into iraq? i am not going to do that. that is where i separate myself on the republican side, i am not for another iraq war, the first one was a mistake and i am not sending our sons and daughters
back into iraq, i will defend american interests but i am not going to say we're going to supplant or replace the arab. on the ground. we can never do it for them. they will ultimately have to fight. we can help but they need to fight. >> let me say with respect to talking to vladimir putin the concern by a lot of people is not talking to vladimir putin but who do we have talking to vladimir putin? you can talk about ronald reagan the we don't have ronald reagan, we have john kerry. they don't trust john kerry or barack obama will have those conversations, did their heels in and make vladimir putin move to was. >> you have to negotiate from a position of strength. it is a mistake to say russia can have what they want but it is also a mistake to have no discussion. when you start having no discussion there is danger of can accident happening. they are flying in that space until shooting down one of our fighters and have it escalate into regional if not maybe a world war.
the responsibility of being a leader of the free world, being commander-in-chief is an enormous one and i don't think we want people -- that is what the debate will separate out, who has a mature understanding and the wisdom and judgment to be in charge of -- >> i hope all of you go over the iran deal. when you talk about giving people what they want that is the criticism of the iran deal. the parts we can't see, not the side deals we did see. one side of government disfunction lee watchdog alleging the agents received a bonuses even though they were under investigation for taking part in drug cartels. it is true. is working in d.c. the ultimate job security? plaque psoriasis...
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department watchdog alleging the g-8 agents received bonuses even though they were under investigation for reported having sex parties with prostitutes hired by drug cartels. nice work if you can't get it this talk about catching a paycheck. nearly 100 employees at homeland security have been on paid leave for more than a year. this according to dhs. the secret service getting another black eye. federal auditors' finding two agents sleeping on the job. one of them at the white house with the other reportedly stationed at the israeli embassy. senator, i interviewed two former navy seals yesterday. one of the leif babin. the number one rule to leading is accountability. owning your mistakes. admitting them. it doesn't sound like there's a lot of that going on in washington and it just gets worse. >> this stuff is really insulting with federal
employees, ought to be stopped. with the shutdown year or two go they had a sellout forms, are your employees essentials or non-essential? we found out the irs said 90% of their employees were nonessential. maybe we are going to learn something but it turns out if you are not essential during the shutdown you don't have to come in but you still get paid. during the government shut down we paid more money than when it is open, we got no work done, we had to pay all the people not to work. >> nothing ever changes. >> i am always talking about the impossibility of getting rid of bad teachers in education. people associate government, jobs with i am not going to get fired, if i do a bad job, involved in a scandal, i am not sure how you change it and others then eliminate the overstuffed bureaucracy and start streamlining and the problem is too many people, the government doesn't keep track of anyone. if you start firing these
people, fees these jobs out, you will have non-essential jobs could just vanish from the earth and no one will be missing anything because most of these people are not doing anything. that is why they're called nonessential. >> on sozzled that a program on education, horrible people doing malfeasance, things the illegal or immoral. >> the secret service, this is the mess. the men and women who are charged with protecting the white house and our president, they found two secret service personnel sleeping at the white house which the report says fatigue, overtime and long
hours. >> my favorite line is of the 50 employees, the board of professional conduct recommended for following following misconduct allegations 13 were terminated and the lot of them were forced to be taken back by some federal appeals board. there is nothing more sure the sun comes up in the east at 4:30 p.m. the beltway's jam packed with people getting out of dodge because people check in, work their allotted hours, check out and there's no accountability and i agree this is a problem and it will continue to be a problem. teachers have a hard time getting fired. >> they found one guy downloading porn six hours a day on his government computer, didn't fire him. another woman was selling jewelery and vitamins, still works there. they found a guy who said he works for the cia, jonathan deal, for 11 years, he was the
right-hand man to genomic carthy in the epa, worked for the cia and that is why he was missing a lot of times, completing made up. >> that will be my excuse. see you guys later, i am joining the cia. >> moving on, he went from serving his country in iraq to studying at one of america's most elite universities and coming under attack for and op-ed in the student paper. what he wrote that sparked ugly protests and got funding for the paper cut. get fast-acting, long-lasting relief from heartburn with it neutralizes stomach acid and is the only product that forms a protective barrier that helps keep stomach acid in the stomach where it belongs. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief. try gaviscon®. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief.
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>> that's good john scott with the second hour of "happening now". >> a disturbing loophole for un nation trying to fix the immigration system. is there a danger of those who come here and overstay their visass? we will get into that. also the biggest hurricane ever recorded is having for the mexican border. we will update you on that and visit one of the busiest land border crossings in the world. it is all ahead on "happening now". >> look a hurricane patricia ended almost doesn't fit on this
screen. free-speech is under assault once again on america's college campuses was the author of an op-ed criticizing the black lives matter movement published in of a university newspaper speaking out after it sparked major backlash. the student government voting to cut funding for the piper by more than half following reports of protests on campus and students stealing and destroying newspapers. the author of the column says he has been screened at on campus and called a racist. request and the entire police tactics common among protesters saying, quote, at some point black lives matter will be confronted with an uncomfortable question. is this all worth it? at one point will black lives matter go back to the drawing table and rethink how they are approaching the problem? on fox and friends he spoke about the chilling effect of censorship from a determined vocal minority. >> the meddling of the student government in campus paper is very disturbing.
these are students that will go on to be in leadership positions and if they think the government has a right to dictate what a paper can and can't do, that is not good. >> this was interesting to me because this was driven by student government. this is not from administration. we talk about administration being promised, but the slashing of the funding w you are someone who has done an incredible amount about reach on college campuseses. when i say the name rand paul they get excited because you care about out reach. how can you go into these schools, you have done to berkeley and howard university, talk about issues with these kids, change the culture on campus though they don't think conservative is a bad word anymore and you can reshape the culture of what is happening in academia? >> young people are not necessarily conservative but they do love liberty and want to be left alone, they're coming out from under their parents''s yolk and wants to be free to
make their own decisions so the political correctness that stifles their free-speech, they don't like that. they don't like the government collecting all their phone records without a warrant. even my kids i text mm-hmm sometimes in the basement. we communicate not at the dinner table but you can see how they would not like their records because a lot of their life and friends and communication with their friends goes through their phone. they would not want the government looking at that. they are my best allies on campus, i was speaking at a college campus and platform is very small, 10 feet by 10 feet, this might be the free-speech seminar. where they can find you. step outside the zone, no freedom of speech outside the zone. first amendment, fourth amendment freedoms, kids are
really into that. >> i am obviously liberal in this offends me more than anything else on earth. if you don't like something why don't you listen to and then decide to agree or disagree. >> condoleezza rice, christine legarde, they were sent to college campuses and a few spoke out. and pretty much pushed them out and comedians, jerry seinfeld stood up and said he would no longer deliver a commencement address because college students can't take a joke anymore. president obama has spoken on this complaining college students are cobbled and protected from different points of view. is it worse now than ever before? >> definitely worse than when i was a kid but part of growing and learning about ideas and expressing yourself is hearing both sides. i love seeing op-eds on both sides. in the classroom presenting both sides, let them argue. my youngest son comes home with
the shoes and says i got to do the pro and the con so he has to learn both sides of the issue, you learn your opponents and the strength and weakness of both sides but if you ban one side because it is a sensitive subject we are not going to talk about it, college should be the absolute place, people are not yet decided, this is a great place to have a discussion and review and discussion on college campuses that is a problem. issue is is that not be able to work out differences and get -- is important. >> i will also say i am very much not a big fan of black lives matter because it sounds like only black lives matter, it should be every -- but i am very much coming from a different place, middle-class, upper middle class, my dad is a physician by modern a lot about being in our cities and there is
no justification for violence but there is danger, we can understand this and the story i tell is a story of a 16-year-old black kid from the bronx who was arrested but never convicted of a crime and spend three years in rikers. when i think of people angry in our cities i think of his family, committing suicide. solitary confinement for two years, never convicted of a crime. when i think of his classmates or his family i think if i was his friend i would be unhappy ending 3 at the system, at the man. i am starting to understand where they enter comes from a and we need to fix things as far as the law and criminal justice because it is not done fairly. >> critical. the office of the president of the united states without a doubt is an awesome responsibility and in his new book, one lucky guy says face is the single most import common thread connecting those with the world's most important job. that is coming up next. cash baa to take their act to the next level...
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big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern. this is todd hardy. a fitness buff, youth baseball coach-and
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with nutritious energy and strength. i'll take that. yeeeeeah! new ensure active high protein. 16 grams of protein and 23 vitamins and minerals. ensure. take life in. >> faith. one lucky guy believes it is most important common thread united all-american presidents and also the subject of his brand new book, our presidents and their prayers. a libertarian writing about god. you say there's a connection. >> i want people to be left alone but not to do anything, i want you to be free to do what you wish, not to do anything but to believe in freedom doesn't mean i am a libertine, do
anything more want any ben e. to do anything which society has structure because people have virtues of for example i think everybody is not out robbing and stealing because there's a law against us. most believe in good and evil, right and wrong, we have a religious foundation. when theologian put it this way, liberty requires restraint. the only type of restraint consistent with liberty is self restraint so government can't tell you to be a good person but for society to function in a good way and have civilization you need a good people who believe in faith. >> in this book you follow the path of other presidents, george w. bush, that is one, kennedy, they're after ruse their faith too. >> it is a common link to all. all the presidents we had had some faith and something that sort of propelled them all. so is our country. one way to look at the difference, american revolution versus french revolution.
we kept our faith, kept our religious background, kept our democratic assemblies at. in france they gave it all and ended up in chaos. >> so glad you are here. walk out in 30 minutes. good to see you. the queue so much. we are back on monday at noon eastern, a and now starts right now. strongest hurricane in our hemisphere. >> forecasters say the impact will be catastrophic. we are covering all of the news happening now. >> she can be prosecuted for misleading congress. >> could hillary's testimony on the hill leave her in hot water with the fbi. >> she is under oath. >> and stop it, please. >> terrifying moments for two sisters, victims of