tv The Kelly File FOX News October 28, 2015 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
quite the line-up. we hope to see you at 11 cloek eastern time, 8:00 on the west coast. thanks again for watching the special tonight. i am bill o'reilly. we'll see you later. >> breaking tonight with a ebat. we have new polling tonight on a changing republican field. plus, new questions about leadership, immigration and about hillary clinton in a special look at the 2016 race for the white house. welcome to "the kelly file," everyone. i'm megyn kelly. we begin with a different approach to judge the 2016 race. measuring the voters' opinions on the republic llican candidat rather than having who they would vote for. and dr. ben carson who is second to trump in the polls, those republicans asked who they would
vote for take the spot easily when it comes to likability. head and shoulders above his next competitor, senator marko rubio. that is just the latest in the series of polls that had dr. carson ahead of trump. a which i thichange that has tr voters to take action. >> will you get your numbers up, please? still, by the way, before i forget, will you get the numbers up, iowa, please. this is ridiculous. what the hell are you people doing to me? please, do me a favor? let me win iowa? i refuse to say get your [expletive] in gear. so will you please do me a favor and work with my people and go out on february 1st and vote and give us a victory? i promise you, i will do such a good job. now, if i lose iowa, i will never speak to you people again. that i can promise. >> we have a powerful political line-up for you tonight.
but, first, we go tonight to carl cameron to set the stage. carl? >> reporter: hi, megan. the debate is still on going. but even before it began, trump pre-spun it by tweeting that he thought cnbc, the hosts, weren't going to be fair to him. and they're using fictitious polls. this is clearly a frustration of his by being knocked out of iowa. and with the cbs poll now trailing carson in the national poll. that shows that carson is dm large measure from evangelical christians in iowa and across the country. and, particularly, some support from tea partiers. trump's been raising questions about his positions on abortion and suggesting he's too low energy. carson, for his part, in the debate and for the last few days, has made it very clear that he's going to create what carson calls a mud pit with all the name-calling and slams.
he says he's just not going to do that. carson has to show that he has a command of the issues themselves. and that he can answer questions in real specifics in very, very tight and bright scrutiny now that he is also one of the big front runners. after you talk about trump and carson, then you eve got to talk about jeb bush and marko rubio. earlier this week, he said if you have to demonize or be demonized, he had to vote for trump. that's a problem for him. and what bush desperately needs to do in this debate is show that he's vigorous. that he's got a purpose for running in president and that he is not entitled and that he's got his own ways of leading the country, not just last name. for marko rubio, he makes the point that jeb bush is of yesteryear. rubio comes back and says it's time to have real change and get a new type of republican conservative with new ideas.
and lastly, ted cruz. going after the republican leadership almost as much as he goes after democrats. tonight, before the debate started, unvailed his plan for a flat tax. he supports abolishing the irs and is making a pivot. his campaign plans to start giving out lots more policies and solutions, having spent the last couple years in the senate talking about how he would break down what he sees as the problems in washington. a transition for cruz as he tries to make his move into the top tier. >> the debate. nicely done, carl cameron. here with us is our fox news digital politics editor and debate bait. that was great. anyway, good to see you both. so you tell me, it's only. because this is it. carson goes into this debate tonight as the front rubber and at least delayed its national poll. trump has said all along, i'm only a counter puncher.
is now out there affirmatively punching? striking it? what is it? when you're just punching? >> just punching. you're just punching at that point. look, donald trump has a problem kwh is ben carson is much better liked than he is. the way you can think about favorability is what you've got in the bank that you can spend fighting somebody else. if you're jeb bush, you have low favorability. trump has low favorability. jeb bush has even lower favorability. every time you fight with somebody else, your favorability, your likability is going to go down, too. so the thing for don trump is as a guy who has gone through this campaign without having to spend money, without having to dig into his pocket to do this, now is the time he's going to have to start running attack ads against ben carson. trump doesn't have the perm capital with voters to do this on his own. >> what about it, howie? already, before we've ef started
the debate, trump was warning that it's going to be unfair. where did that come from? >> and then that clip that we saw of him kind of pleading with iowa voters to get his numbers up, i know it didn't stick and it didn't sound great. talking about the small million dollar real e state loan. >> how about the others on that stage tonight. you know, ben carson, he has said some things that have caused a lot of controversy. and, yet, there's almost no impact. it seems like voters are looking
at him saying i know, but i like him so much. >> well, they like him so much, number one. and number two, the places in which the establishment press goes after ben carson are the places that make republicans like him more. how dare you say you don't want a muslim president. and republican voters go ding. how dare you say aabortion is like slavery. and they go ding. so they're running ads for ben carson. >> but even in the past two debates, carson had, at best, quiet evening. but his numbers continue. he's like the teflon don when it comes to the debatesment it doesn't matter what happens to him. they just like him. >> the closer you get to the end, the more important the substance of the answers become. so, right now, we are within. we're almost three months away from iowa. it's going to get serious. but i would point out that at
this point in the 2012 cycle, republicans are still enjoying popping the popcorn and listening to herman cain. they were done with rick perry. they were ready for the cane train. 9-9-9. blitz, as he called wolf blitzer. and then as you get close and you want to talk about more substance, i think carson is going to surprise some people because as you talk, he's very good in talking about it and he's very close to the debate. >> tonight's debate is all about the economy. and this is supposed to be trump's area of expertise. the pressure is on him and they sort of raise the bar to do extra well and whether carson can hang. i want to get your thoughts on that. i want to also ask you about carlie. and her numbers went way up. and, now, they're back down. i mean, what -- i guess she could have another great debate. and then what happens?
>> for whatever reason, she wasn't able to sustain the surge after that great performance in the cnn debate. yes, she has to figure out how to build on it. as does marko rubio. i agree with chris that republicans like the things that he says that the mainstream press considers to be controversial. ho he has said some things when it comes to taxes an immigrat n immigration. the media scrutiny starring at the debate and continuing is really going to ratchet up on him because he's not just back in the pack anymore. and how he handles that is could determine how he breaks out of the mold. >> before we go, jeb bush, i mean, is it a make-it or break-it night? or is that all b.s.?
>> tell that to scott walker. there are make-it or break-it. and the problem that he has is he said stratospheric. he was going to push everybody out. he was going to do great. now he will spend his opponents to death. he will hit them with sacks of money in the face until they fall down. everyone yields to him. and he shall be the last survivor. and that's not very appealing. and it also means this. it means if jeb bush cannot go out and do more, then fight with people. so fighting with people is not where jeb bush needs to be. he needs to be presidential and rise above it all. but if he does that, he risks looking like he's a sleeve on stage. so he's in a tough spot and is feeling a lot of pressure from the donors. >> you make it sound very appealing to be in a fight with jeb bush. are you going to slap him in the face with a bunch of money? i like that. >> got to breakthrough. >> great to see you both. >> same here, megan.
>> the governor has now unloaded on the republican front runner in a blistering speech about leadership. we'll show you that when mark kesen droins us next. >> do you know how crazy this election is? let me tell you something, i've about had it with these people. get in the way? try nexium 24hr, now the #1 selling brand for frequent heartburn. get complete protection with the new leader in frequent heartburn. that's nexium level protection. (vo) you can check on them. you can worry about them. you can even choose a car for them. (mom) honey, are you ok? (child) i'm ok. (announcer vo) love. (mom) we're ok.
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well, there's little doubt that tonight's debate will prove crucial for the second year candidates. we've seen dramatic movements involving one of them. ohio governor, john kaisich. for months, he's stayed out of the parade. but now, he seems o to be getting purposeful. >> do you know how crazy this election is? let me tell you something. i've about had it with these people. what has happened to our party? what has happened to the conservative movement? i'm fed up. welcome to the party, governor kasich.
with all due respected to him, he hasn't made news really at all in the entire election cycle. >> his politics average is 2.6%. he reminds me of that old saturday night live skit where he's in the debate with dana carvy and he says i can't believe i'm losing to this guy. >> we have that. standby. >> you still have 15 seconds left. >> let me just sum up, on track, a thousand points of light. >> governor, rebuttal? >> i can't believe i'm losing to this guy? >> that's fantastic.
>> he can't believe he's losing to donald trump and ben carson and jeb bush and marko rubio. >> that sentiment that he's expressing, it could be so many of the men you just named. you look at him up there and you can almost read his mind that he's saying i don't know how to deal with this. what is it? what is going on over here? >> what's going on, quiet frankly, is that they're really mad at their own party. there's an ap poll last week. 77% of republican voters want someone who's going to shape things up in washington. only 22 want a politician who's going to get things done. john kasich is a politician who gets things done.
>> look at both of whom have governed in purple states, have these proven track records and the gop electorate basically says tell your story walking. >> i thought this was going to be a good year for governors. one of the things that people don't realize is not in washington, but in the state. >> more republican state legislatures. is it made sense to return to one of the performers in the states. but it's not turning out that way. none of the governors are doing well. none of the politicians are in double digits.
>> we're going to bring this back for our special midnight broadcast. but i want to ask you. any predictions? do you have any predictions about anyone on that stage tonight? >> i think that he's really running well and has a chance to pull out. economy remains a top issue. next with the breakdown and a look at which front runner may be in trouble here. >> i'm going to try one more time, sir. this is debt that's already obligated. would now not fail slor increasing the debt limit? >> what i'm saying is what we have to do is restructure the way that we create debt.
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representative. this is my wheel house. that's what i do well. the economy is what i do well. >> if i become president, we will do something really special. we will make this country greater than ever before. we'll have more jobs. we'll have more of everything. >> and the other thing i was really number one on was anything having to do with the economy, okay. jobs, et cetera, et cetera. i was so high up, and the other people, there was no number two, practically. >> well, there's no secret that donald trump believes he's in very good shape when the talk turns to the economy. but what about his top rival. dr. carson. there are some new questions about a radio interview he gave earlier this month. listen. >> should we default on our debt? >> let me put it this way.
if i was president, i would not sign an increased budget. absolutely would not do it. they would have to sign the budget. to be clear, it's increasing the debt limit, not the budget. but i want to make sure i understand you. you'd let the united states default rather than raise the debt limb? >> i would provide leadership that says get on the stick, guys, and stop messing around. and cut where you need to cut because we've not raising any spending limits, period. >> i'm going to try one more time, sir. this is debt that's already obligated. would you not favor increasing the debt limit to pay the debts already incured? >> what i'm saying is what we have to do is restructure the way that we create debt. i mean, if we continue along this, where does it stop? it never stops. >> joining us now with a breakdown of the candidates and our economic positions, stuart
barney of the fox business network. good too see you. >> hello. >> so his critics show a lack of fundamental understanding of what the debt limit is. >> yes, he does show a lack of understanding about what would happen if you do not raise the debt ceiling. just imagine, he walks into the white house, he's the president and says i'm not raising the debt ceiling. 30 days later, that president is immediately faced with a total shut down of all kinds of spenting. >> he's saying i will tighten the belt so that we don't get in that position. >> that's what he's trying to say, but it will not work out like that in reality. it just wouldn't work. >> what we've seen from a lot of these candidates is weeping, rhetorical answers that don't really tell us how we're going to do anything. when it comes to the economy, has anybody done any better than that? >> i think it's all been very specific on achieving economic growth.
they all want growth. >> and does anyone stand out from the pack on that? >> what stands out is the policy that's commented them all. tax cuts. every one on the republican side wants to cut tax rates. that's their way of getting the economy going. there's not a prar standout. it's that that policy is the policy of all of the republican kand galts. and, frankly, i think it's a good policy. i'm very much in favor of it. >> of tax cuts. >> absolutely. >> ben carson has taken a hit for talking about tithing. how the church requires certain money to go. >> he's brought a faith into economics. he's proposing a flat tax. he was on my program and he said he would favor a tithe, which is a flat tax, of around 10%. everything that comes at you in terms of income, you pay 10% to the government. that's it. you don't work your way up the food chain.
it's not going to work. it just doesn't work. i mean, 10%? that would not bring in enough money to run this government. it's so simplistic. >> how about rand paul. >> rand paul is another flat tax guy. 14.5%. ted cruz is a flat tax guy. i don't know what the percentage is that he wants, but he's a flat tax guy. >> is any of that realistic? we've heard candidates talk about that in the past. no one's ever risen up to the front runner status. >> i don't think it is realistic. it's reaching for the stars. it's going too far. >> is it pandering? >> no, i don't think it's pandering. >> which of these republican candidates in your view has a realestic campaign to run against hillary clinton with? >> i think jeb bush, donald trump, john kasich, marko rubio. they have realistic plans. rubio would lower the tax to 35%.
it's 39.6 now. >> how about tax on the billionaires and the super-rich. he's talking about you. >> thank you. i appreciate that. that's flattery and i like it. he's talking about taxing head fund managers. that's what he's talking about there. that's a popular move. talk about a breakthrough, that's the way to go. >> that's how people feel. that's, of course, also what barack obama says at some point, you've made enough money. >> yes, but he's also talking about bringing down the top tax to 25 pnt. that's realestic. >> what is it now? >> 39.6%. >> and if you live in new york state, it's like 70 or 80. >> if you're decent, real good money in new york city, and this is where you live, you're paying around 55, 56 cents on every dollar that you earn. >> excellent. and, for that, for that you get pizza rats and -- >> can i leave now, please?
>> now there's bagel squirrels. have you heard of him? we're going to ask you another time. stuart, great to see you. basically, taking on super-human strength. it's come to that. >> while am i in this segment. >> you'll see what i'm talking about. and the next gop primary debate will be on the fox business network tuesday, november 10th. at the end of the wall street journal, teaming up with the fourth debate. it will be moderated by neil cavuto and live from mill cawau at 9:00 p.m. that's less than two weeks away. i'll be watching. the man carrying that message joins us next. plus, the governor of texas has drawn a new line in the sand on the issue of illegal immigrations. he joins us next on the story behind this and the presidential candidates who are standing behind him.
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>> we now have 300 of them. >> i think a number of us are extremely concerned about the sank chew ware city. >> they've got a political agenda or a view of immigration law. republican governor greg abbot is with us. great to see you, governor. you've got the gop candidates for president on your side. but you don't have your dallas county president on your side. there in lies the problem. what are you going to do about folks in the dallas county sheriff who says too bad. >> we are tired of these sanctuary city policies. and they will not be tolerated in tax. so making clear what texas is going to do. because of policies like hers,
texas is going to pass a law that out laws sanctuary cities that will put injunctions on sheriffs who fail to come ply with detainer provisions. also, we are going to ensure that local taxpayers have to pick up the tab, instead of the state of texas, for noncompliance immigration laws. also, we're going to force upon them the labor to potential unlimited damage. >> how are we going to pay the price for a sang dhu ware city policy. >> the state of texas is now coming out-of-pocket for education cost, law enforcement cost related to sanctuary city policies that may be affecting people who are illegal to those particular counties.
>> noi, argument by those who support sanctuary cities. the argument is we need to make the illegal immigrant community feel that they can come talk to law enforcement to report about other crimes, to report about domestic abuse and bad situations. if they feel that they're going to go to the cops and say i feel something terrible, they're not going to do it. >> well, first, this deals with people who are in jail and not out on the street. what we're seeking to do is to come ply with enforcement demand to be held for 48 hours before they're released from jail so i
can determine if we have the ability to deport them. these are people who are in jail like the killer of kate steinle. >> no matter what we do, someone is going to get upset. >> well, listen, that's the position of a law enforcement officer. and that is to enforce the law, regardless of who may get upset. and her obligation, the sheriff of dallas county, the obligation of everyone in this nation, is to ensure that we remain a land of laws and that means enforcing them. not applying them on a case-by-case basis. >> governor, great to see you. >> thank you. >> wet story plays out, a variety of hispanic republican groups have come together to announce that if donald trump wins the gop nomination, the republican party can kiss good-bye their votes.
joining me now, executive director of the american principle projects and charles hurts, washington times political columnist. great to see you both. so you had your meeting which we talked about the other day. it turns out donald trump was not a big winner. >> we had a retreat meeting all day yesterday. and we come out with a strong statement saying that if donald trump is the gop nominee, we will not support his nomination. we're not going to work for his campaign. we believe if he's the gop candidate, he will lose the election. we want somebody who is
constructive on the immigration issue. insulting immigrants, calling for policies like mass deportation. that's not the way. and, in any case, it's really bad policy. >> in a practical matter, what would that do to donald trump if he were the gop nomination. >> probably end up making his poll numbers go up. or spg bizarre like that. the problem with all of this is donald trump has obviously need a lot of courts. they get a lot of people involved in politics very upset. but in blunt, plain language, it's exactly why so many people have been drawn to him. >> it sound like he's talking about policy, too. >> if you pick apart, take away all the politics language that he uses and the rough language
that he uses and you look at his policy, basically, what donald trump is in favor of is the exact same thing that is all the law on the books. >> but he did not do well. >> 27 is not terrible. >> there is absolutely no evidence. there's no evidence that hispanics are gravitating to ward donald trump. that's factually wrong. he has the poll that shows the favorability rating is won. >> if not trurp, who can he get behind in the deal? >> oh, there are many. >> is there anybody else who was disqualified in your view? >> let me say who i think are good? marko rubio. jeb bush, ben carson. >> why does he get a pass?
>> i'm sorry, but jeb bush is not for ending birth right citizenship. you're absolutely wrong about that. >> how about jeb bush. on the other day, you were about him, too. >> if we issued a warning to candidates that if they embrace donald trump's rhetoric, we're going to call him out. we're going to have the next meeting in nevada right before the republican debate in nevada. and we're going to see how the candidates are doing. >> here's the thing. mitt romney went to the right. it hepped him secure the nomination and helped cost him the election, or so the pundits say. is the gop putting igts in that same position this time around? >> yeah, i think it's a tough situation. but 27% of the hispanic vote is not terrible for a republican in
this climate, especially where you have so many people who are taking this issue and turning it into a devicive wedge issue and trying to -- and accusing people of being racist. >> the problem with the gop nominee is the white voting population is shrinking. and the hispanic population is growing. and the african american population is voting overwhelmingly democrat. so they need to surge huge with the white voters or need to do better with the hispanic voters than mitt romney did. >> as you know, megan, all the professional policies here like to slice all by race and gender. >> it's very offensive sometimes. at least he's not slicing the population by women and race
which i find especially offensive. >> great to see you both. >> thanks. >> well, jeb bush has gone after hillary clinton in a hard-hitting new add. up next, returning with his old pal, bill burton. that's on next. >> how will you not be a third term of president obama? >> what letter grade would you give to the administration? >> i'd give him an a. >> which enemy are you most proud of? ? >> in addition to the nra, probably the republicans. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern. i built my business with passion.
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well, as the republican rivals go head-to-head, one of the top rivals is tar getting the democratic front runner. targeting the record of hillary clinton. >> you should not be paralyzed by the republicans and their con stant refrain big government this and big government that. i know we can afford it because we're going to make the wealthy pay for it. >> we cannot afford for a republican to succeed barack op of the united states. >> tonight, i'm announcing those actions. >> that's why i would go even the executive orders that president obama has signed when i am president. >> she would be a third term of obama. >> what letter grade would you give his add min strax? >> i've give him an a.
>> which enemy are you most proud of? >> well, in addition to the nra, probably the republicans. >> so thanks for being back. bill, let me ask you, as a communications man, is that ad effective? and who is it trying to reach? to whom might that appeal? >>. >> so, you know, i love hillary clinton. i want her to be elected president of the united states. but, i have to say, that's a very good add. i feel i've been very unimpressed by moets of the republicans. but that was very well done. i like that it does such a good job of communicating with republican primary voters about who hillary clinton is and what a threat she is to republican values. it's well put together. it's obviously not going to play well in a general election, but that's not the game right now. we're a hundred days away from iowa. and that's who jeb bush's
campaign is trying to communicate with. >> he has failed to really have any home runs on the debate stage or at these town hall meetings. so is this a better medium for jeb bush? >> well, he certainly needs this. and, look, the problem, what he's trying to address here is the fact that donald trump's attack on him as being a low energy guy have really hit home. the biggest fear that they have is we're going to nominate another mitt romney who's going to sit there wheem people attack his record and the republican nominee doesn't fight back. so the last thing they want is a low energy guide. so what he's trying to do here is communicate to republican voters that he's going to fight back. that he's not going to look back and wait for hillary to attack him. >> bill, what is the buzz in the democrat's circle? do they believe that this is over? that hillary's got them secured? that seems pretty clear. although, it could happen.
who know what is the fbi is doing. but does anyone believe she's got the white house secure? >> i think people believe hillary has an insider track. he's made a very strong run and now he's getting tough. as a result, hillary has had a couple really good weeks. he's hitting her hard. he's attacking this whole campaign apparatus and becoming a little less disciplined. but, even so, i think hillary is in good shape. but the problem for jeb bush, for hillary clinton, she went months and months and tried to stay disciplined. for jeb bush, he's been buffeted by donald trump. now he's attacking. oh, let's attack hillary clinton. it's hard for him to seem strong, but it doesn't seem like he has a real strategy that he's ticking with. >> i've talked to a lot of republicans who say who is going to do it?
who will emerge? >> i don't know who will emerge, but i'll tell you, hillary clinton is probably the weakest nominee that we've had in a long time. said that problem isn't widespread. 300,000 people according to the inspector general lost their lives while they were waiting on v.a. lists. she says in her debate, when asked what's her biggest enemy she's most proud of, the republicans. the republicans are her enemy, not isis, not al qaeda, not russia? >> the v.a. thinks she tried to walk back by saying we shouldn't throw out the whole system and privatize it. but one of my top enemies is republican. that's offputting to some viewers. >> i would imagine it's offputting to a lot of viewers. every republican viewer. >> and even independents, i would imagine. >> but at the same time, you know, hillary clinton is in politics. she's a partisan democrat
fighting for democratic values and, of course, republicans are going to try to -- >> yes, they don't see eye to eye. you are coming back. i'll see you at midnight. awe believe active management can protect capital long term. active management can tap global insights. active management can seek to outperform. that's the power of active management.
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we have a behind the scenes story from the republican debate tonight. when the candidates aren't slamming their opponents their competitions or the lackluster economic growth under the bam administration, they were very upset about their dressing rooms. trace gallagher has that story. >> megyn, the coors events center has three levels and seats 11,000. so rand paul's campaign was a little disenchanted when he got this seat. in other words, the paul campaign said their green room was a toilet, they'd be chris c
rest room for a green room. his aide complained loud and clear but an adviser for rand paul went a step further by tweeting out side by side comparisons. guess which green room belongs to donald trump and which belongs to rand paul. we're told trump's big screen and big lounge chairs had nothing to do with his big poll numbers. the paul team sent a picture of carly fiorina's room with the caption, hint, someone has a jacuzzi. then one more tweet asking the world to, quote, check out marco's theater. they were asked about the disparity in digs. listen. >> this is an athletic facility. it's not quite a jacuzzi. it's a locker room. they're doing everything they can to space off places for all the candidates. i think all of it has been resolved. >> for the record carly fiorina really did get a jacuzzi, but
the paul campaign later tweet this picture thanking the gop for upgrading their green room. by the way check out john kasich's green room. he invited anyone who was bored to come over for a game of horse. we never got to see ben carson's green room but there were no complaints from their campaign either. >> like if you go to a hotel, if you complain and whine about it, they may upgrade you. we'll be right back. and presence in the world is not a force for good. america has led the world and it is a more peaceful world when we're engaged the right way. we do not have to be the world's policeman. we have to be the world's leader. we have to stand for the values of freedom. who's going to take care of the christians that are being eliminated in the middle east? but for the united states, who? who's going to stand up for the dissidents inside of iran that are brutalized each and every day? but for the united states, who? who's going to take care of israel and support them - our greatest ally in the middle east?
but for the united states, no one - no one is capable of doing this. the united states has the capability of doing this, and it's in our economic and national security interest that we do it. i will be that kind of president and i hope you want that kind of president for our country going forward. announcer: right to rise usa is responsible for the content of this message. i use what's already inside me to reach my goals. so i liked when my doctor told me i may reach my blood sugar and a1c goals by activating what's within me. with once-weekly trulicity. trulicity is not insulin. it helps activate my body to do what it's supposed to do
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tonight at midnight eastern time a special edition of "the kelly file." frank luntz is with us along with a group of gop iowa voters. marc thiessen and more. see you then. welcome to "hannity." we're coming to you live from los angeles tonight. now, the republican 2016 presidential candidates squared off in their third debate in boulder, colorado. you'll hear from many of the candidates in just a few minutes. check in with donald trump, senator ted cruz, senator marco rubio and many more. they'll be making their way here shortly, but first here are some of tonight's highlights. take a look. ♪ >> my great concern is that we are on the verge perhaps of picking someone who cannot do this job. >> and he said, oh, i'm never going to attack.