tv The Kelly File FOX News December 2, 2015 6:00pm-7:01pm PST
updates from the scene in southern california. we appreciate you are watching the factor tonight. tomorrow we will have our interview with donald trump for you as well as follow-up reporting on this terrible situation. thanks for watching. miss megyn is next. breaking tonight, a massive investigation and manhunt following the nation's worst mass shooting since newtown. welcome, i'm megyn kelly. the fbi revealing moments ago, this may have been terrorism. >> go down this road. this is america, an sprint. i know one of the big questions that will come out repeatedly is this terrorism. and i'm still not willing to say that we know that for sure. we are definitely making some movements that it is a possibility. we are making ajustments to our investigation. it is a possibility, but we
don't know that yet. and we're not willing to go down that road yet. >> police confirming now that a third person has been detained. but it is unclear if that person is involved in today's shooting. we have a ton of new developments to sort through after the news conference that just wrapped up a few moments ago. it all started just before 11:00 a.m. west coast time. first calls of help came into police. shots at a complex with hundreds of employees who help people with developmental disabilities. cops arrive on the scene within moments. that scene is still dangerous at this hour. police discovered an explosive devoice inside and still haven't watched. >> as soon as i was about to turn into our building, a cop car started surrounding the building and blocking off the road. ? have you spoken on the phone with anyone sheltering in place? >> yes, i have. they immediately got to closets
or rooms with a locked door. and i guess they were listening to a police scanner. >> about 11:15 a.m. local time the fire department reports they are responding to a 20-victim shooting. moment later, there are suggestions this might be a situation. we have three possible gunmen armed with rifles, wearing what is described as military gear. all of that confirm bid police in the news conference a few moments ago. meantime in an all too familiar scene we saw sweet teams move victims out with their arms raised high in the air. shortly after 12:30 p.m. pacific reports would surface that gunman may be gone. somehow managing to slip past the responding officers. as least one eyewitness describing what he saw and heard. >> i was standing right across the street of the hotel. it sound like i heard, like a shooting range. just shots being shot like crazy. a lot of shots.
>> we saw a black suv flying down the street. what i saw looked like one guy was wearing military fatigues. after that, just seeing all the police and everybody coming through. >> in the last few moments, police revealing new details on the suspects. with more on what we learned in that presser, trace gallagher joins us now. trace? >> couple of big headlines out of the news conference, megyn. we knew that the shooting happened in the conference room of the regional center. the conference room was rented out by the county mental health department. holding a christmas party/awards banquet in there. there was an argument. that person left. then came back with someone else and open fire. >> they acknowledge yes in fact there was some type of dispute inside the conference room.
yes, that person did leave, but they cannot say for sure if the person came back inside and opened fire with some other person. they were also talking about the fact that early on in the vinnevin investigation that a name came us and in scanner traffic, this they knew the name and date of birth of one of the persons who is believed to be a suspect. that information apparently led them to a house in red lunds, only a few miles from where the shooting took place. it was that house in redlands that they came upon a suspect vehicle thap that suspect vehicle turned into a. and that turned into the shooting you see here. it was the black suv that was seen leaving the center earlier today, or the regional center earlier today. there was a shootout. two suspects inside the suv were shot and killed. one was female, one was male. a police officer shot by a
ricochetted bullet but did not suffer a life-threatening wound. there was a third suspect and that suspect had been app remended. police are vcareful to say if that suspect is connected to the shooting. we heard that as many as three suspects, now three are accounted for, but it is unclear if the person in custody is connected to the shooting. we should note that fbi spoke today and did allow wiggle room. the fbi said we dent know if this is connected to terrorism. things could change. now open to the possibility that this might be terrorism clearly the fbi has shifted in whatever information they have gleaned throughout the day but as this investigation has gone on, megan, and as we have information with a name that was out there and may have been a foreign name, police are not
looking into that. widening the investigation. the fbi is at least a co-lead in all of this. san bernardino still says they are taking a lead but the fbi is getting more and more involved as the investigation goes on. megan? >> thank you and thank you for your caution in that name. we will treat this responsibly on this program. >> joining in me now is mark fuhrman, he is a former detective and fox contributor. a bizarre day in terms of the information that the police and law enforcement has shared. when you hear them talking about, still, how the third person who has been detained may or may not be connected to this, that they can't -- they don't know the ethnicity of the two shooters, they suspect the suspects that dead. what did you learn from that
presser? >> well, certainly the two deceased shooters have probably been fingerprinted and photographed. they might possibly have identification on them. i doubt it, but they might have. they might know the identification of both suspects. might know where they are from, if they are nationals or united states citizens. but certainly, they were led back to this house in redlands. when you look at the press conference bb they did quite a shift from the press conference to today and the evidence that was initially out was multiple shooters unlike mass shootings in the united states. targeted location. a very disciplined organized approach. ingress, egress. and these escaped. that probably left law enforcement with the suspicious that this was something more than a disgruntled employee,
love tray angle or a mental patient. >> what did that tell you that one of the two shot is a woman? >> well, we know that terrorism is not a sexist career. the women are just as involved as the men. and just as committed. a man/woman team with a third suspect, you see this in the middle east, in africa and europe, and you see it all the time. we just had one incident in paris a couple weeks ago. we also have the newspaper in paris that this looks remarkably the same. you have the precision attack targeted specifically once the conference room and people are shot, they leave. mass assault rifles exactly like this situation is almost like they took the blueprint from that shooting and brought it to san bernardino. >> how much planning do you
think went into this? >> well, i think they have a lot of planning. they knew the location, knew the conference room. somebody knew exactly where to go. they knee there was a conference there and i suspect that target or targets were the ones that actually rented the conference room. they didn't seem to be engaging anybody outside or trying to go into any other wings of the facility. so i think they knew that. and that reconnaissance was probably done. but what they didn't realize is that there was a police training center a mile and a half away that was currently having a training day which probably was their down fall because when the call went out, everybody left and sealed off that perimeter and a fairly large area and probably trapped them inside. >> that's why you think they stuck around so long? that's one of the big mystery possess. they got away with it. i mean, they got out. no one shot them. they didn't take their own
lives. which suggests something about their state of mind. yet they stuck around. >> and you wonder if they had the capability of listen together news reports. if they had, you know, a smart phone. or they are actually watching live time footage of helicopters, statements of the media, of the police. we dent know where they are. police don't know where they are. we think they found an abandoned suv. if they hear and and just stay down low and they just wait, maybe they thought the police thought they were already in the wind and they got a little nervous and decided to make a go for it. >> when you hear the police tonight talk about how they had tactical gear on. how they had assault rifles and handguns, about how they had been -- this is reported earlier now, but that they had been reportedly throwing pipe bombs out of the suv while driving that the the police.
about how they believe there may be explosive devices in the facility in which they committed murders and perhaps they couldn't get close to the suspect because of ieds or some sort of kploexplosive device. is it possible, in your mind, this is the work of the male/female pair, in the suv, and that's it? >> i suspect there is probably a larger cell, i would suspect this is probably either domestic or international terrorism or sponsored by or radicalized by. this also looks very much like boston at the end where they were throwing exploding devices out the window at the police. when you look at the sophistication, planning, collective and three people
going into a facility, well armed, body armor, tactical equipment. aks, going in there and actually just shooting people at a target of location, it is a very precision operation that's been planned, thought out. they go in and then they leave. it is very surgical to what they are doing. and it smacks of paris, of boston. >> and they're considering that possibility as we speak. mark, thank you. again, if you were just joining us in the last half hour, fbi agent in charge on the scene at this mass shooting in san bernardino, california, shared comments that suggests the feds may take a closer look at whether this is terrorism. let's listen to that again. >> need to go down there road. this is america, an sprint. i know one of the big questions that will come up repeatedly is in this terrorism. and i am still not willing to say that we ne that for sure.
we are definitely making movements that it is a possibility. so it is a possibility, with you we don't know that yet, and we're not willing to go down that road yet. >> our chief intelligence correspondent katherine heritage is live tonight, katherine? >> thank you, megyn. the chief assailant here is a u.s. citizen. they did not offer a lot of additional information but also told us that earlier this morning we are working as a foreign name but based on the search of data bases, that name washed out. but also has the attention of investigators and home hand security here in washington is some of the elements of a conference. as you mentioned, male and female suspects, is evidence
that gez towards ppremeditated. and the possible use of closi explosive devices. final point is this increasing involvement of the fbi. again, that turts us toward terrorism. i'm not saying we know anything more than that but it puts us in that direction, much more so as you saw in the soundbite than what we heard from the fbi earlier today, megyn. >> it went much further tonight than earlier. katherine harris with new reporting. the lead suspect was indeed an american citizen. thank you. >> you're welcome. >> joining us now, peter cane. member of beth homeland security and security. thank you. >> good to be here. >> what did you believe may be going on here? >> megyn, i've heard something official. i'm not going to mention the name but i heard that they made
about three hours ago with the date of birth and that person's residence is where they located the suv. that adds a -- it is a foreign name even though it may be an american citizen, had that plus the body armor, heavy duty weapons, explosive, fact it is male/female involved. perhaps a third person. it has aspects of terrorism. may not be but i certainly understand why the fbi is changing its nuance, changing its tone. and it is too early to say whether it is tr. >> but spokes catherine led us too is saying that's early and that could be untrue. but that's what we're hearing as of this moment. >> i think it washed out as far as being on the data base. but i believe when the police
officials said that they got the address of that person and that's where they located the suv. >> and so as far as you -- this is you based on your television, you know, consumption or this is you based on anything beyond that? are you resurrecting that name as having a possible role in this? >> i'm saying way is given that name three hours ago. the name and days of birth. and the report of the police saying that they checked out the name, if it is the same name we're talking about, that came up three hours ago and they went to the residents and that's where the qb was located. >> what do you think that they are lookinging at tonight? why won't they get out there and tell us specifically what are the names, what are the ages, what are the ethnicities. that's one of the questions reporters are asking because people are wondering whether this is radical islamic terrorism. that's why they are asking. >> i think the fbi wants it hold
back until they have a better idea where it isgoing. it could be a disgruntled employee. if they want to explore anything. and don't want to give out too much in case we are still involved. three hours into this and we like to give you information as quickly as we can. but i think they are doing a great job and i give them credit for that. >> do you believe the fbi knows much more than they are telling us? >> i a i assume so. they always do. all my life i've been around cops. they want the case as much under control as they can before they go public. they dent want to, first of all, create something where one doesn't exist and there may be someone out there they are trying to apprehend. >> why do you say they are not ruling it out. we're not willing to say we know that for sure. we are moving -- we are making
some movements that it is possibility. why would the lafbi direct over say it in that way be congressman? >> because it could lead it terrorism. they did not see that a few hours ago. whatever they uncovered the last several hours, they've seen certain indicators that could be. there is enough that they can't rule it out. there's a switch in nuance. >> and certainly the implications would be much more far-reaching. if in fact that's what we are looking at here. congressman, thank you. >> megyn, thank you. breaking just as we start this broadcast. and getting a hold of exclusive video and showing earlier shootout between police and suspects. and live now to adam live in san bernardino with that exclusive. adam? >> give you more about what peter and you were just speaking of, about the names thrown
around. and there is a reason why it is held very delicately, held very delicately, they can't get inside the suv still. they believe it is potentially booby trapped or has nor explosive devices. there are names inside, and potentially could lead them down the path as alluded to in the press conference. very delicate with this, precisely after the names they can on the suspect. meantime where the suspect were shot and where it began is right behind me. i will step away and go to the video. about 200 yards down. there was glass on the street. that's where the first shooting began. the back window shot out of the suv. about a hundred feet, where the main shootout happened. trading gunfire between authorities and suspects. they went through the stop light and that's where it came to an end they were shot and killed. the video you will see now is from david, as i interviewed
earlier today, in the location or basically right where the second shootout happened. so three locations about 100 yards between the two or three. he was there. take a look at the video, the first time seen anywhere. >> this is going on. we still got all this stuff going on. oh, they are after somebody. oh, [ bleep ]. oh, [ bleep ]. something is going on. something is going on. there you go. they are out there. guns. gunshots. gunshots. gunshots. did you see that? yeah. there was gunshots. oh -- oh, better get down, bro. let's get out of here. oh, my god. oh, oh, oh, they're killing that
guy. close the gate. close the gate. we have gunshots. we have gunshots. oh, my god. right in front of us, dude. >> okay. so that was at 3:07 local time. 6:07 eastern this evening for you guys. david espinoza was the employee live there, megyn. the s.w.a.t. team is there and the bomb team is there as well because they are having to look at what is inside. they are concerned there could be a bomb inside. it is a very delicate situation there. but can you see the chaos. we are about a mile and a half from where the murders took place. that factory was being shut down. workers going home. people were hunkering done or going home. the business day was ending because of what was going on.
we were by the command center. we made our way done from railroad tracks. we can see where the bomb squad had come in. there was a tip on my phone saying there was a chase. within seconds, it seems like, the battering ram left, the special forces from the police department, left. that's when with we got in our suv and came here and that's where it ended right down the street. as you can tell, megyn, still very fluid here. we heard about the red lindh situation. that is the reason the fbi is being very delicate. it is a very delicate situation in the country and they want to make sure they have it exactly right. i'm told they will get into the vehicle and thoroughly go through it and make sure there isn't any other identification inside. megyn? >> so you say they know the names they just want it make sure before they release it to make sure they have the people
that were involved. >> they won't go on record because of the situation. now some of them have seen them in person as well. but certain folks seeing cell phone pictures up close, up front, up close of these individuals. and has an idea of their ethnic background, if you will p. doesn't mean that has anything to do with this. could be workplace. but when you throw out a certain name or ethnicity, automatically everybody jumps to terrorism. and that could be here. but it also could be not. that's why they are so delicate with us. i guess that's understandable because of the situation we're in and not just with this country but with this world. explain what happened. we had congressman on earlier today. tracing the suv back to the home of this one individual. that's why they are taking a hard look at the guy. but now we are seeing the police chase with the suv.
explain with a these two different reports. did they stumble upon it? what happened? >> there's a couple different reports. we heard someone called it in. could be a multitude. could be they traced it back and could be someone called it in. as david espinoza shows me video, they are only 35 to 40 miles an hour. that's not crazy. you see the window shot out. i was standing by the glass. insane that it started there. there was a first real barrage of gunfire. another 150 yards is where they were hit and killed. almost as if they were compare and you will notice it wasn't just marked cruiser. the police presence here is massive, as you might expect. >> we are trying to get a shot of the suv.
>> megyn, you want to hear from david? he is here. >> yeah. we would love to hear from david. >> david espinoza, he shot the video. hold on. he is here right now. we have spoken a couple of times. there is a quick synopsis. you said hunker down and wait and no one knew what heck was going on. all of a sudden you saw what. >> we just saw the suv normal traffic stop by police, and didn't stop where they were supposed to and we just saw or heard gunshot in the windows just shattered. we took a cover and then they passed by us. that's when i was at the time, recording something. then from there, the second -- maybe 50 to 80 yards from us, that's when the second shooting appeared. covered again. took cover. then the last of the shots, it was a scary moment. >> they were outside the fence.
you thought it was just a traffic stop that would happen to have a couple extra officers. you were getting home any way. when you hear the gunfire you are like holy smokes, in different words. >> exactly. when i saw them, when i saw it, all of the police officers, units, fbi, atf chasing them, oh, this is them. this is them. when i saw part of their faces. i just couldn't believe that was them. and it is happening in front of us p. >> surreal. >> very surreal. exactly. it happens everywhere. now it is happening here. >> one of your bosses says, he knows ak-47s, and they had powerful weapons, and we heard from the press conference, knowing that, troubling. >> yeah, it is. have tlag right in fro having that right in front of us. and right outside, take cover, duck, and you know, just -- they
were scary noises. >> you want to show that video one more time, megyn. when you look at your phone and the video again, pretty amazing. ? can sure was. i actually recorded that. and listening to the gunshots, especially the gunshots, listening to, you know, it was really ugly. >> david espinoza, we appreciate your time. a lot of people in this town are a bit shaken. i spoke to a woman hunkered down in her closet earlier, with her dog. and viewers e-mail and tweet me, she is okay. been allowed to come out of her closet with her dogs and reunited with her husband. very tense moments and still honestly, we don't know where this case goes at this point. >> even if this isn't terrorism wait we understood it in paris, france, there were other attackers who were part of it. who were lurking.
who wanted to unleash another i attack days later. even if this is something other than that kind of terrorism, of course that is in people's minds. adam, thank you. today's our next guess was across the street hearing gunshots what what they thought was an automatic weapon. sandy wood is the executive director of the inland empire lighthouse for the blind. she joins us now by phone. sandy, thank you very much for being here. what was the first time you knew something had began wrong? >> megyn, i believe it was about 10 minutes to 11. or 10 minutes after 11:00 when i heard the gunshot ring out. it was a loud. i'm on the second floor, my office is. and i went to the back of my desk and called 911 to report i was hearing shots fired.
that same moment, one of my employees came running up the stairs saying, sandy, there's gunshots. i reported it to the police department. they told me they were getting other calls and police were on their way. so i hung up and i got on the intercom system, we're a school for visually improved, we have about o 60 folks at our school today and i announced to stay in the classroom and lock the doors and that police were on their w way. >> oh, good gracious. you're tell ming me you have 60 blind people in the school, now wondering where the gunshots are coming from, and you have to go on lock down because of real danger and a mass murder across the street. >> and at that time, kelly, we didn't even know that. we did not know there was a mass murder going on. this is 200 feet away from our facility. but there was loud gunfire. it stopped for a moment and then
started again. so we just locked the doors. then shortly thereafter, there was people running from the building. three of the people came into our facility. we closed the door and locked it again. they were very shaken, upset. they were in the conference room when this shooting happened. one of these guys were hurt. one of the gentleman had fallen from running and he add couple injuries on his hands. it was a frightening experience. >> was it three men who came in? >> yes. three people. >> what were the ages of the men? >> oh, in their 30s, 40s. >> and describe their condition. first of all, before we get to what they said. how did they appear to you? >> shaken. very shaken. >> they come in and how did they explain what they had just witnessed? >> the third guy that came in was hiding behind the vehicles parked on the streets, so i opened the door and said, do you need to come in here.
so two guys already in the building that came from the shooting scene said yes, we know him. sew came in and all three were just talking it each other, trying to console each other. all three of them had been present when the shooting happened. >> how did they describe it, sandy? we've heard so many conflicting reports. >> i know. they described somebody dressed in black with the masks op. and assault rifle. bulletproof vest. and they weren't sure if it was somebody that was already in the conference room or they had come into the conference room. >> i'm sorry, go ahead. >> i think people's memories are jagged when you're struck with an incident like that. so it was -- it wasn't really clear here what had happened. >> did they tell you what they had done?
>> i'm under the impression it was a san bernardino county conference going on and there was about 50 people present. >> we heard also it was a christmas party. did these guys hear it was a christmas party? >> none of the three said anything about a christmas party. >> so they were doing business? >> i understand it was a conference training session for san bernardino county employees. >> any particular kind of employees? >> i'm thinking it was from environmental services. >> how did they say anything, there had been some reports, unconfirmed, that someone was there, became upset, laughed and came back. that's when the shooting occurred. did they speak to that at all? >> no, they did not. >> did they say, and ill realize that shooter and shooters were wearing masks. did they take any recognition of the killers. ? >> no. as time was going on and
detectives and police were there talking to everyone, there was no description. they couldn't tell if it was male or female or any description of the shooter p. >> was anything said by the killers? >> not that i heard. >> how did the men describe the victims? the state of the room? >> one man told me he was sitting right next to a girl that got shot. we saw several people that looked like maybe they were victims in the parking lot across the street. after some people were being vacated. one of my family members said they thought they saw lifeless bodies carried away. i never saw that from my view, from our building. but apparently there were fatalities. >> how did the mean get out? >> from the conference room where they came from?
>> yeah. >> i think they just ran out the door and across the street. >> during the shooting this is. >> yes, i think so. >> so they made a run for it while the shooting was under way. >> i believe so, kelly. >> i mean, i can't imagine that the shock you saw on their faces, we all go to work everyday. we go around fellow human beings everyday. we engage in discussions and to go from a normal moment one second to witnessing the people around you getting shot and dying. how did you read it on them? >> they were shaken. they didn't know what was going on. they fled the scene. and they were -- one gentleman use mid phone to call his wife. they were absolutely petrified, as is everyone at the moment. then have you a moment and you
realize, all of our lives could have ended at that very moment. when you start realizing, there was mass murder 200 feet from our build ppg and thankfully we thanked the good lord, all 60 of our staff members and blind students are safe and no one is injured or killed. >> did you speak with staff members? do you know how that went? >> yes. he told her he was safe. there with a is a shooting. and that he was okay. he was reassuring her. she was a grocery store worker p. >> wow. thank you so much sandy wood. we appreciate you giving us the time tonight. all the best to pyou. >> kelly, thank you for covering this event and for your support and bringing this to your audience. >> we'll stay on it. >> at this hour we are told that police are searching the home of one of these shooting suspects.
again, two are dead. one described as a third suspect was detained. this person was seen running away from when police confronted it. police were not sure if some suspect had anything to do with the crime but they are at the house of one of the suspects right now looking for new clues. trace gallagher tracking this story live from the west coast newsroom. trace? >> reporter: a search warrant is served in redlands which is the very same area where police picked up the suspect vehicle that led to the shootout between suspects and police and two were killed. our producer is telling us that a short time ago they sent a robot inside the house and just minutes go or a minute ago he heard a large bang. an explosion. it is unclear if that was the robot detonating some kind of explosive device or if it was an actual explosive device.
remember, earlier today, after the shooting, police sent in another robot into the regional center because there was concern that there was an explosive device in there. in fact tonight in the press conference the police said that they believe there was still an explosive device inside the regional center that they were concerned about and that focuss. so if you go back to where the search warrant is served tonight, this is the home of a suspect. it is unclear if it is a house or apartment, megyn. but again, this is what led police, name and date of birth, that led police to this area today. and that name and date of birth, they came across the suspect vehicle. the suspect vehicles took off. they pursued and the next thing you know there is a low speed chase. 35 to 40 miles an hour, then the shooting started when the two suspect were killed. what police are really focussing on inside this apartment or house, is of course, the computers. any evidence that might be inside. figuring out exactly who these
people are and what their motive was and what their ties were to this mental health department group that was actually inside the conference room. they leased out the conference room for the day. inside the conference room, wondering what connection might have been to the suspects and to the people inside. reports are that they were actually targeting somebody or some people that were inside this conference room. right now police are trying to tie it all together. this search warrant could provide them with an extreme amount of information inside what they believe is one of the suspect's homes. >> trace, we'll back to you. my next guest, a top official at fbi has been analyzing this shooting in san bernardino. and wasn't surprised to see that terrorism hasn't been ruled out. as assistant director of fbi in new york in the 1990s, james tal strom led the fbi's investigation into flight twa 800 and later saw all matters
related count irterrorism and security for state of new york. as senior adviceor for the governor following 9/11. james calstron joins us by phone. jim, thank you for joining us. your reaction tonight after following the fbi. >> i think they have reason to go down that road. i don't know what that reason is, megyn. but it looks that way. the complicated matter doesn't fit any particular nice set of facts that createes a mental case or love triangle or even terrorism it for that matter. so it is a little bit different. but it is, after the fact, i think the police units did a great job. you know, you mentioned earlier that they probably felt trapped. they didn't want to get out on the major highways. good police work got them to that home. i think we will know an awful
lot more in a short amount of time. if it is trerrorism, if it is international jihadist terrorism, it will only put additional exclamation points on to the things i've been talking to you about for a long time, megyn. and particularly why we need nsa back in this game. because we don't have hours and days to fool around trying to find out who is talking to who. and we need the realtime. and that time of advantage will save lives. time. and that time of advantage will save lives. and of course we need more people working in the fbi. i don't want to get into the why that is or the shortfalls, because i deon't want to give or crazed adversaries information. but without question, this is a serious matter, whatever it is.
and i feel so story for all of those people that were mowed down. and it is just unbelievable. >> let's talk about the things, obviously one of the things they are looking at is this radical islamic terrorism. that's the first thing that comes to your mind in any situation like this similar to par paris. but it might not be. for exam, i heard what radical islamist goes in and targets one county executive meeting and doesn't shoot up the rest of the building and escapes. >> right, right. that's right. >> and doesn't have more carnage. >> you know, i guess we shouldn't be -- we shouldn't be a victim of what we see as the usual and past. but you're right. they ignored the people on the first floor and went up to the conference room. why would you do that if you're looking at all of the experience we've had the last two decades,
that's not the normal modis operandi. but these people are very sophisticated and smart and one way of terrorizing us is to really put us off our normal game plan and put us off on what we normally expect. i don't see that as unusual. >> would you describe this as a sophisticated attack? >> i would. from the standpoint of planning, i think that obviously they cased the area they wanted to carry out. they, unlike most of the ones in the past, they apparently, according to the news media, were wearing body armor. which means they were not about to sacrifice themselves. they were going to come back to fight another day. that's somewhat of an advantage us to.
and i hope we're going to find out an awful lot more. of course by have to act on this stuff quickly. we have to know the tangle of the spider web that's a conspiracy, if it is a conspiracy and we have to act quickly because the day might come when the simultaneous event is on. so we just don't have the time. and we need to review the attorney general guidelines so that fbi can react quicker. the general quicker can do things the fbi has to jump through hoops for. which is insane. >> the fbi is considering everything and they haven't ruled out terror in the way we understand that term. how -- if you rule it out, just for the purposes of this discussion, that this is islamic terrorism, how bizarre would it be, jim, to have a disgrunt elled worker, for example. go home, get a spouse, girlfriend, friend, female,
maybe reverse, maybe the woman, and then come back. to get somebody else to sacrifice potentially their own life. >> i don't think that's ever happened, megyn. >> just to kill a bunch of people because you're ticked off. >> i don't think it ever happened before. it doesn't make any sense. >> so what do you think the law enforcement agencies right now are doing? >> well, they are covering a lot of leads. they are looking at hopefully getting devices out of that home. they are looking at hopefully devices in that car once they get through the bobby traps. they will be doing all kind of intelligence. were these people, if it turns out to be middle east islamic radicals, you know, were they on the -- were they on the list. >> were they someone the director was talking about.
>> well, very early before we had information, president obama was lamenting the ease with which people can get guns in the country. and in that context, he, as an example of why he thinks the gun laws need to be revised, he said people on the no-fly list, terror suspects on the no-fly list can still get guns. we need to do something about that. which caught a lot of people by surprise, wait, is that a general comment or -- he said it in the second paragraph of a long answer responding to this case. >> i don't think he is talking about anything in particular about that. this is crazy that someone on kn on the no-fly list can get a gun. but the government has an awful time building automated systems and they pay millions and millions of dollars that the regular private sector spends thousands on.
we need to do a better job with government regulations that slow down, you know, the ability for the bureau and other agencies to keep up with technology. and the black stones that people can operate on, you know, that's a huge, huge encumbrance. say what you want, but if that's your family that's being held or your family that's in the target zone, would you probably think twice about that, wouldn't you? so we have to react to the times. we can't be tied to the '90s and '80s. we can't be tied to the whole at&t communication system in the whole world. it is a much different time. geometrically different today than it was a decade ago. >> james calstrom, pleasure having you tonight sir. >> my pleasure, megyn. >> police looking through the home of a suspect.
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breaking tonight, we now have live pictures coming back from the search of this suspect's home in the san bernardino shooting. jonathan hunt is live there with the latest, jonathan. >> reporter: the focus on five miles from san bernardino, where the original shooting happened. police and other law enforcement personnel moving very slowly, very deliberately around a specific property in the area.
our producer sent us back video of a robotic vehicle moving towards that property. our producer also told us he heard the sound of a small explosion. it sounded like a detonation to him. clearly, police have some information that has led them to this house, possibly part of the id that is being floating around for some time now. we have known a specific name for several hours, as have you, we have not said it on air yet, we have not had it confirmed officially, we believe that that property may be connected to that name. separately, they're also surrounding the suv where the huge gun battle took place. they've been moving in carefully around there. they do say that a pipe, piece of pipe that was thrown from that suv before the two suspects in it were shot dead, was not an explosive device. megyn. >> that is news, okay, jonathan, thank you very much. joining us now with more, former
assistant director of the fbi. and joshua katz, former cia operation's officer who specializes in homeland security and intelligence. ron, let me start with you. we're not saying this name of this person, because it hasn't been confirmed. others have gone with it, we're choosing not to until it's confirmed. however the question is, the person that they're discussing may have worked for the very bureau that may have been having the conference there that afternoon. and to what extent do you believe the fbi would be looking at the possibility of self-radicalization and that potential in selecting a target? >> i think they would absolutely be looking at that and other possibilities, megyn. i was trying to read the words and the thoughts of my friend dave as he spoke earlier, and his tone gives me great pause. it has me believing that -- >> he's the fbi head in l.a. >> that's right.
that there's a terror an ex us is -- nexus to this. priestly in prior active shooting cases, look at jared lautner, aaron alexis, occasion after occasion of active shooter. very quickly after this scene that the gun powder, the dust settled at the scene. you have an understanding of the drivers. and frequently it's mental illness. we're not hearing that yet. and so you want to take that raw active shooter driver off the table, and say what else was at work here? >> uh-huh, jeff. >> was it a hybrid, somebody who he was going to get revenge and then go into other terror attacks. i'm sure the bureau is looking, and they'll be working all night tonight on trying to figure out the network and understand what was going on here. >> josh, what significance is it that the person found with the male suspect in this suv was a female? >> i think, megyn, what that
tells us is that anybody can be a perpetrator, and anybody can be a victim. and there's no line here anymore. there's no definitive profile of people that commit these horrible acts. and i think that that's what we really need to understand here, is that anybody can be an attacker, and we all have to be aware. >> uh-huh. is there any -- what happened with that suv was a shootout in which the two suspects were killed. now there's a third person whose been detained. and we don't know whether that person's involved or not. how, how do you imagine the debrief of that person is going right now, ron? >> well, the bureau, they're mo, in engaging in interviews like this is really to try to build some repor, get the person talking, understand what their drivers are, and work them to the truth. and that may be peeling back layers of lies and initial lies, and rebutting those lies, but it's ultimately to get their
cooperation. this is a very serious incident. we have multiple dead, multiple homicides here, multiple aggravated batteries on other victims. so there is a real price to be paid, but there's an opportunity for someone to tell us what the entire plot looks like. >> uh-huh. and just to confirm what we have on the bottom of the screen, two rifles, two handguns recovered so far in the investigation. and now the reports of a pipe bomb seem to be falling apart. that may be a piece of a pipe was thrown and not a bomb. how much do we glean from the fact that we saw the robotic bomb detector going into that home moments ago? was that just out of an abundance of caution or would they have had to see something that looks like a bomb? >> i think the police and the s.w.a.t. teams and the authorities are really on-edge because they don't know what they're walking into. so sending the robot in is out of an abundance of caution.
i would say that explosion, the concussion, or whatever it was that people heard could have just also been out of a abundance of caution. we don't know what we don't know and we shouldn't jump to any conclusions here, basis as you're talking, things are developing and the situation. we're learning more and things are changing. so we need to proceed carefully. >> absolutely. we're going to get an actual update from police very soon. so stay tuned for that. gentleman, thank you. in the hour before we know the motive, intent, or even the suspect's identity. there's been a wave of new calls for gun control. messages calling for support and prayers for the victims. they were attacked in some instances by some commentators. even the new york daily news which is running this cover tomorrow, saying god isn't fixing this. has gotten into it. i'll show you in a second. dana perino is here and co-host of "the five." immediately it turns to gun control, and i think americans
are -- whatever you're stance on gun control, they're fed up with the weekly updates on mass killings in the united states. >> i think that president obama could find common ground with people on that. immediately decided to respond, when actually because we've seen -- as the breaking news during your hour, megyn. you have developments that are showing america we still don't know exactly what happened, and this could be much more serious than something that we haven't seen before. right, in america. is this something new and different? we don't know that. and so there's a tremendous desire to respond. there's a lot of pressure to respond, but leaders should not comment, like the comment section on a website. like what you want is clarity and calm, and there is merit for leaders, either candidates or the president to just wait and say, we've been informed, been informed, and we will update you as soon as you know more from the authorities. >> because what we hear, the president came out quickly and made a comment about gun
control. that is a cause that is near and dear to many, in particular on the left in this country, that can be alienating to the gun right supporters in the country and the best gun laws in the world might very well not have protected -- prevented somebody who may be a terrorist from unleashing carnage. >> right. and so then people who feel strongly that their right to have a gun under the second amendment that they would feel like they were being attacked. and so immediately, everybody goes to their corners rather than trying to figure out number one, what happened, number two, are there any laws on the books that should have been enforced that weren't, and laws that we should pass that could have prevented it. i don't think any of those are noun tonight. and when the president speaks, he will always have the pit that he didn't have to do that tonight, i think it did not do him favors. more o'malley and clinton. >> people because's tensions run high after something like this. not that it would make it better
as it was a washington or new york, but this is, this is, you know, hometown, usa. and everyone -- many people in many towns tonight may be feeling on-edge that it could happen anywhere. >> and there is no harm in expressing the sympathy and the worry and the prayers, i might add, megyn, which believe it or not, prayers even became controversial tonight. but i think that all of us should offer our prayers to those families and those shaken by this today. and as we learn more about it, we're going to need more faith as well as our leaders to be calm and provide us clarity. not reckless comments. >> dana perino, great to see you. always thoughtful. so the situation in san bernardino is this, 14 people are dead. another 17 have been wounded, many seriously. and the death toll could rise. we are keeping our eye on the situation there, and waiting for another update from law enforcement. they have promised to come out shortly and we expect another update, not just on the injured,
but also on the status of this third suspect, and what is going on in the house of the one suspect that they have been searching. the word has been used raiding for some time. sean hannity is here live, next, i'll be back at midnight, stay with us. and thanks, megyn, and welcome to "hannity." the fbi will be not rule out terrorism as a possible motive in today's deadly shooting rampage in san bernardino, california, which left 14 dead, 17 injured. tonight, we have dramatic new video of the gun battle between police and the suspects earlier tonight. watch this. >> something's going on. something's going on. there they go. they're after that guy. they're after that guy. guns. gunshots. gunshots. gunshots. [ sirens ]