tv The Kelly File FOX News January 28, 2016 1:00am-2:01am PST
let's get it a for the debate. never miss another else of "the five." welcome to des moines, iowa. in just 25 hours, the republican presidential candidates will take stage for the final debates before the first voting in the 2016 presidential campaign. exactly who will show up and who won't? how that will go over in the heartland is a major part of the story tonight. coming to you from the iowa event center. this is special report. >> good evening from inside the debate hall as we are putting the finishing touches behind the scenes. as you've probably heard, the
big story is who is not coming. at least as of this moment. donald trump is as of now boycotting the event over what he feels is unfair treatment by this channel. and trump has left the state. he's in south carolina for an event next hour in gilbert. most of the other candidates from both parties are here in iowa. they're focusing mainly on the middle of the state from top to bottom. we have fox team country. bernie sanders meets the president and hillary clinton continues to run on his coat tails. we begin with chief correspondent carl cameron, and donald trump going from the art of the deal to what might be no deal at all. >> reporter: hi there. donald trump's decision to withdraw from tomorrow night's debate has unleashed a tornlt of criticism from his rivals. >> people have a right to be angry about the direction of our country but they also have a right to know from the people
who aspire to know. i won't get into the side shows. >> rubio is running third in most iowa polls. ted cruz is at the top of the polls, was first to strike. >> i think anyone running for president of the united states owes it to the people of iowa to have the humility to come in front of you. to make the case. to answer the hard questions and look you in the eyes. this is a job interview. rand paul who returns to the prime time stage hales donald trump's absence. >> i think it is probably a good thing for the party. it shows sort of his delusions of grand you're that he thinks he gets to dictate everything. >> i've been asked some hard questions. i like hard questions. it doesn't bother me. >> trump claimed that he was offended by a sarcastic
statement yesterday. he said he was treated unfatherly at the first debate. >> i didn't like that they sent out press releases, toying, talking about putin and playing games the fox statement read, we learned from a secret back channel that the ayatollah and putin both intend to treat donald trump unfairly when they meet with him if he becomes president. >> anyone scared of megyn kelly is not going to be able to stand up to hillary clinton or vladimir putin. we need a strong principled conservative president. >> instead of debating he plans a rally for. he says i refuse to call megyn kelly a bimbo. instead i will only call her a light weight reporter. trump is in the 30s. based on over 170,000
caucusgoers. the record set in 2012 was 122,000. if this year's is 130,000 which would still an new record, trump and cruz would be tied for first. while rubio and carson would be virtually tied for third. kroous last night challenged donald trump to a head to head anywhere any time. trump dismissed it in a tweet saying where will it be, canada? which is obviously about his being born in calgary. >> live in west des moines. thank you. he may not be officially be feeling bern but president obama was pressing the flesh with bernie sanders today at the white house. hillary clinton did her best to characterize herself as the natural heir to the presidency. >> bernie sanders went to the white house to get equal time
with president obama. sanders denied seeking either an endorsement or advice how to defeat her. the meeting came after mr. obama appeared to be tilting to clinton with gushing comments the politico. >> she is a good, smart, tough person who cares deepbly there country. >> with a knew quinnipiac poll, finding sanders has surged ahead of clinton. they're in a desperate struggle to show who is the rightful heir to the obama legacy in. >> i don't know president obama gets the credit he deserved. he is reminding democrats she was in the situation room for the osama bin laden raid. >> i was there at that small group, advising the president whether to go after bin laden based on the intelligence we had. >> while clinton's camp showed
off a packed house by squeezing 275 people into the bowling alley, he is looking to march 1st. it was a toll of over 20,000 people and two stops last night. >> what a turnout! sanders is generating huge who is the i can't. . here in iowa, sanders is beating clinton 78% to 21% perhaps lying to lower expectations. sanders is brushing off questions. >> if there is a large voter turnout. i'm n if there is a large turnout, i think we win. if not, i think we'll be struggling.
>> as she courts, she did another interview with msnbc and said she is anxious to add another debate last we can. they tried to get to the minimum. the tax plans for bernie sanders and hillary clinton. sanders supporters call his a robin hood tax while clinton is promising not to increase taxes on the middle class. doug looks at both plans. >> benjamin is credited with saying nothing is certain except death and tafls. bernie sanders might agree and then some. his plan would raise over 19 trillion in higher taxes over years for middle and high weight earners. he claims it would be offset by better government services. almost 20% the tax hike that
hillary clinton propose. >> in the last 30 years, it has gone to the tomorrow of .1 of 1%. >> it has worked in economic hardship. >> to the wealthiest people in the country who sometimes have an effective tax rate lower than truck drivers and nurses. yeah. you are going to start paying your fair share of taxes. >> many young people are in college debt. >> he talks about raising taxes. his enthusiasts are not hearing that they'll be paying higher taxes. >> hillary clinton has steered clear of a tax increase on the middle tax. >> i'm going to do everything i can to make sure the wealthy pay for debt-43 tuition. for paid family leave.
>> i think the tax proposals are closer to what the obama administration is proposed. >> among clinton's proposals, a new college compact to limit college costs paid for by tax breaks for the wealthy. and an extension of obamacare with lower co-pays, paid for with a variety of new taxes on the wealthy. sanders proposes ending obamacare and replacing with it a single payer system. among the taxes to pay for that, a 6.3 trill premium tax and a 3.1 trill tax on employer health insurance. sanders' home state had such a plan for a single payer system until sheldon in 2014 after learning how much it would cost in new taxes. >> thank you. so whose tax plan do you feel is stronger? let me know with facebook.com or on twitter. you can use the #special report. tonight, the european union is talking about major flaws in the way greece is managing its
border during refugee crisis. e.u. inspectors staged a surprise check today at several sites and they said greek authority are failing to properly register and fingerprint migrants or correctly check their travel payments. it is estimated more than 850,000 people entered greece last year. seeking sanctuary or jobs. on afghanistan policy. tonight, president obama could be getting ready for a stunning reversal on his promise to bring troops home. correspondent kevin cork has the story. >> reporter: amid growing concerns about afghanistan, the obama administration has chosen the lieutenant general, as the next top american commander in kabul. they're suggesting not only will the longest war in american history continue. citing top military commanders,
the "washington post" reports, that this could keep thousands of troops in the country for deck aflds recommending yet another major shift for the american military. altering its planned exit strategy which has been modified three times since 2014. >> moving forward, the next commander in chief and his or her national, taking advice from our commanders on the ground in afghanistan will have to determine what sort of troop presence is appropriate for that country moving forward. >> after 14 years of spilled american blood and treasure, critics say it is high time the white house finish the job once and for all. >> military citizen risk saying we have to think in generational terms. now the cancer will spread and it will take a long time to root it out. >> in the heart of a tough european winter and a tough thaw. by the end of check sanctions
following completion of the randle nuclear deal, the regime's political leader, has taken trips to italy where he met with the pope and later to france. matching business deals along the way worth billions. even inviting u.s. involvement. >> it's possible that iran and the united states might have friendly relations but the key tom is in washington's hands. no surprise, the penalty is pushing back only report suggesting nothing has changed in the plan. about 9,800 american troops in theater for much of this year. that number eventually dwindling to 5,500 by the time the president leaves office. of course, depending on the judgment of commanders on the ground. >> live on the north lawn. thank you. president obama wants $12 billion from congress to feed school children from low-income families while school is not in session. the white house says the request for summer meal money will come
in next month's 2017 budget proposal. nearly 22 million children receive free and reduced price meals but only a fraction get them when school is out. up next, the stand-off between ranchers and the feds in oregon turns deadly. first let's hear what some of our fox affiliates are covering around the country. a six-alarm fire near the roosevelt hotel downtown. smoke blanltd the central business district and lasted almost eight hours. one firefighter suffered burns to his hand but there were no other major injuries. the city fire summit said the outside of the building is in great danger of collapsing. the cause still under investigation. fox 45 in baltimore where the city says it will start ticketing homeowners and businesses who have not shoveled their sidewalks. after the weekend's historic storm. the housing commissioner says the normal six-hour grace period was extended to three days. but it is time to get out the shovels now. fines range from $50 to $100. and this is a live look at
miami. from fox affiliate. a tornado toughed down in broward county. the national weather service confirm winds up to 100 miles an hour. coconut creek fire and rescue said winds caused a semitruck to blow over on its side, blocking southbound alleges of the highway there. no reports of serious injuries. that's tonight's live look outside the beltway from special report. we'll be right back.
one of three prisoners was ordered deported in 1998 but never left. immigrations and custom enforcement said he came to the country legally in 1991 but was supposed to be sent back to vietnam after a burglary conviction. vietnam reportedly refused to take him. he's since done time for a string of convictions. correspondent dan is in oregon with what happened. >> federal agents are ratcheting up the pressure on those still occupying the wildlife refuge in
oregon. armed check point now surround it. there was a fatal shooting last flight and the arrest of seven of the leaders. >> it has led to us where we are today. they had ample opportunity to leave the refuge peacefully. >> killed in the gunfire was the 55-year-old lavoy, an arizona ranchman who was the spokesman. the group was stopped on a highway as they tried to take their message of government overreach to nearby grant county. the leader was among those arrested. while the fbi denied any wrongdoing, his father who had his own showdown with the federal government over grazing rights was told he was not supposing a threat. >> finigan was murdered. she shot him with his hands up. they murdered him. armed protest began as an effort to keep two local ranchers out of prison for
setting fires on public land. when that shifted to an indictment. it is begging the occupiers to leave to avoid blood shed. >> this is tearing our community apart. this can't happen anymore. this can't happen in america and it can't happen here. >> over the last three weeks the fbi used extreme caution with the protesters. not wanting to is that correct a wider militia uprising but local officials and oregon's governor criticized the feds, saying they had to end the occupation now. well, the fbi all the way up its ranks, listened and finally acted. >> in oregon tonight. thank you. michigan governor rick snyder has named a groox experts to determine long term solutions to the water crisis.
also today a federal lawsuit steeks force state and local governments to replace all the lead pipes in flint's water system. a coalition of states and utilities has filed an emergency request with chief justice john roberts asking that the u.s. support that block the e.p.a.'s sweeping clean power plant. it has been the single of much litigation saying it will decimate the u.s. coal industry. roberts has asked for a response by february 4. the white house is referring questions to the e.p.a. there are growing kerneconc about the zika virus. it comes from brazil. it is transmitted by mosquitos and it may be linked to a brain defect in babies and we're told it is already here in the u.s. now the latest from new york. >> this is very much of an evolving situation. >> the zika virus has developed into an urgent situation as well. transmitted through infected
mosquitos, the virus is connected to a neurological disorder that causes some babies to be born with abnormally small heads. a condition known as micro cephaly. obgyns say a mother to be is bitten by an infected mosquito, the baby has better odds of not being infected. >> if she gets infected at 18 or 20 weeks, a very pivotal time for the brain to evolve, then that's where you may see it. >> as large numbers cases continue to be reported in the americas, over a dozen confirmed cases in eight states have been reported here in the united states. a number that health officials is expected to rise. though those testing positive in the u.s. are people who travel to the infected areas. the cdc says for now they don't plan on issuing a quarantine even though it can be transmitted if a local mosquito bites someone with zika. then spreads it to the next
person. for now, officials say they'll focus on other means of prevention. >> this idea of indemic transmission in the united states is certainly within the realm of possibility. >> there is no vaccine or medicine to treat zika. the cdc has issued a zika travel alert for over twin countries where the outbreaks are during and recommend pregnant women do not travel to these places. some airlines are giving refunds to those with travel plans. president obama is calling on researchers to step up efforts to fight and prevent the virus from spreading here. though a vaccine could be years away. in new york. fox news. the federal reserve is not raising interest rates. last month the fed raised its key overnight lending rate for the first time in nearly a decade. but global economic jitters sent the markets back down. the dow lost 223. the s&p 500 was off 21. the nasdaq fell almost 100.
authorities in wisconsin say a mill mill man planned to carry out a massacre at a masonic temple to defend islam. he has been charged with unlawfully possessing a machine gun among other charges. prosecutors say he conspired with two other men who turned out to be informants to go through the temple and terrify everyone they saw. the wife of the illinois police officer who killed himself after embezzling funds from a youth program has been indicted. melody gliniewicz is charged with money laundering and disbursing funds without authority. he staged his suicide to look like a homicide.
sparking an intense manhunt involving hundreds of officers last september. >> as we told you at the top of the program, donald trump says he will not sign up tomorrow in des moines before the caucuses monday. tonight, the senior corn john roberts tells us how that's going over with potential voters. >> reporter: if you want to find salt of the earth iowans, this is a good place to start. and most had pretty strong opinions about truch's decision to snub the debate. >> my grandma always said the biggest thing in life is showin lot about how he would behave as president. >> jordan reed is a strong woman in every sense shelf expects her candidates to be that way too. >> i think it is really lame. a low blow. that he is avoiding the debate because of megyn kelly which i
think is childish and immature. >> hard core supporters stay pullout won't change their minds. even some casual observers say, it is no big deal. >> i think it is okay for him to not be there. i think he'll voice his opinion somewhere else. >> out on the campaign trail, caucusgoers trying to nail down their final choices think it will hurt the front-runner. >> i'm not thrilled about his failure to show up. it will definitely cost him support. >> i don't see a good lead here just wants to throw a tantrum every time he has to face a hostile question. >> if you could send him a question -- >> i would say he needs to show up and show us he'll always be there for us. >> reporter: one voter i talk on who didn't want to go camera said he had been torn between trump and cruz. after trump pulled the plug, he is now all in for cruz. how many times will that be repeated across the hawkeye
we've had six debates so far. every online poll said i won everyone of them. especially the last one with the new york values, which was horrible what ted cruz said. the democrats are all finished with their debates. they've had six. they were hidden behind football games and every other thing. they're all finished. we're going on forever with these debates. at some point you have to start doing other things other than debating. >> there's donald trump today. a sneak peek in an interview with bill o'reilly that will air at 8:00 eastern time. donald trump is choosing so far not to come to the debate here in des moines. setting up another event.
that is his decision now. we'll be ready with the podium if he chooses to be on the stage. did he tweet today, ted cruz who suggested they have a one-on-one debate. trump tweeting this. saying even hope the i beat him in the first six debates, specially last one, ted cruz wants to debate me again. we do it in canada? so let's start there. bring in our panel from washington. the senior editor at national review. amy stoddard, from the hill and charles acrokrauthammer. how does this play out? >> he has what he wants. blanket wall to wall coverage of him wiping out everything else going up to the debate. that i think was well played. i think he loses if he doesn't show up. he needs to find some honorable way out. make big donations to the vets and challenge fox to match it. and say if they do that, he'll do that. i think snubbing iowa where they
take their politics really personally. and also, not having a good reason. if he just saw that on that clip you just showed. is it an argument to say we've had too many debates? that's not a reason for standing up. america, iowa and the other candidates when you have accepted and were listed on the list. so i think, if this is a competition between his narcissism and his caddieness. and i think i would guess his narcissism, meaning staying out. >> his loyal supporters still with him. if you look at the average, the real clear average. he is up roughly 6 points over ted cruz. this is before this decision over the past day or so. thoughts on how this plays out here in iowa? >> that's the thing. i think if you look at his inconsistent answers for
refusing to debate. first it is megyn kelly. he put that on the instagram video. it was not about megyn kelly. it is about too many debates. if you're an yoipan voter and you're on the fence, someone who has not done hand to hand campaigning. he just recently has stayed at a holiday inn. he has mostly flown in and out the same day and not done the face to face campaigning iowans are used. to i think that's a mistake. with same day registration, yeeltd enough first time caucusgoers for him to beat ted cruz or if the superior ground game. it might not be better than donald trump's that we know of but it sure looks that way. if you talk to people, there it is better than they've seen in a long time. >> people are talking about this decision as if it is the boldest
move since caesar crossed the rubicon. maybe it is with national media exposure. in terms of iowa where we don't know. where trump is weakest are the once where everyone has a huge question mark. people who have never gone to a caucus before. how this plays out with the traditional vote here's are very protective of the prerogatives is one thing. it might energize them. >> bernie sanders at the white house today. hillary clinton telling a local reporter over the past couple of days that she thinks the president essentially endorsed her. bernie sanders at the white house today. >> i am grateful to iowans for being willing to talk with me and offer ideas as we've traveled across the state. i know that i will be a better president because of what i've learned here in iowa. >> i think what the iowan
campaign ends up being about is one word. that is turnout. and i think we stand a very good chance to do well in iowa. >> do you have the president's endorsement? >> of course not. >> the quinnipiac poll out says sanders is up 4 here. how does this dynamic play out? with the president in the back ground. >> i don't think it is a huge boost. i think what it does do, it rights the balance. i thought there was a misinterpretation about obama's candidates about the candidates. then hillary stepped on it by saying it is essentially an endorsement. the white house trying to issue a correction. it is evenly balanced. the president has not endorsed either one in any way. that is significant. i think if sanders is rallying,
if he is rising now and passing hillary clinton in the last pull in iowa. it can only help. >> i think the trajectory of momentum as we've seen, it is the night before the vote with one more day. we thought santorum would win. rick santorum was the winner. we just didn't find out for few weeks. i think that the move of bernie sanders pulling should be worrying hillary clinton even though she has a terrific ground operation there and has worked very hard and put her resources in to winning that first contest. the expectations are too high for sanders. she is allowed to lose iowa and new hampshire and then have this fire wall later and she has assured the party of that. if he loses iowa, then apparently, the air is out of his balloon. it is an interesting expectations at this point.
>> as we've been teasing, we are ready to announce the data from the new contenders a.m. they rated statements on the refugee crisis. and the statement that was most agreed with was, radical islam is on the move and their motives are to destroy the western world. we cannot afford to make a mistake in relocating even one of these to our soil. that statement belongs to the winner of the iowa caucus. rick santorum. here's how all the candidates did. the scale is one to 100 meaning 100, total agreement. ranking the refugee topic as important, an average of four out of five stars. >> mine was rubio by a nose. i think now that i know that santorum has it behind him, it
is a game changer. >> it is interesting. fun to see the different quotes. >> we'll have it every week. the next issue is the middle class. we'll bring you those results next wednesday. if you have not gotten the app, it is very easy. go to the app store. you download it. you can do it very easily with the quotes. and it is a little fun. next up we'll talk to some journalists covering the campaign in iowa. panelists from washington. thank you. we'll be right back.
there's a live look at the debate stage as we're getting ready. seven podiums up there now. an eighth in the wings. we wanted to welcome in our panel of journalists, ed o'keefe for the "washington post." katherine lucy with the associated press and the political reporter. i know you've been out on different campaigns and different stops. your sense, your feeling on the ground first of all about this decision by trump. how does that affect people? especially here in iowa. >> you know, i don't know how that will affect the decisions that voters make on caucus night. we know that trump has a very big unconventional base of support here that has been watching him on tv and following
his campaign through the national lens. i don't know if they'll be swayed by that. the question is who has the organization? we've seen ted cruz has run a very conventional caucus campaign. donald trump has not. as we get to caucus night, that's the question. the conventional style going to win out or is donald trump going to surprise people? >> we talk about that ground game. getting people out. is this time different? does it feel different? >> there are different things going on. every caucus is different. certainly trump is trying to run a different game. he wants to get people who don't typically caucus out. bernie sanders on the other side is doing the same thing. build a different kind of coalition. i think the question will be as jason said, do they show up? and we won't really know until we start getting folks into the caucus sites across iowa. >> and i know you were at the trump event.
did you get a sense since this decision of how things sit? >> we were in marshalltown. he made this decision. he announced it to reporters. didn't really explain people were saying, you know, this is silly to do this. fox has been fair to him. this is a network that does well. debates are important. this will upset. others have said he is donald. he will figure out what to do. i trust his judgment. and others said i agree with him. they have been unfair and he can skip it out and it won't matter to me. i actually think one might sway a few juans who might be trying to decide between him and ted cruz may still be undecided. may watch this stage tomorrow night and realize he is not there and go why not? >> he also could provide lift to other candidates that need more air time. he often dominates a lot of the stage. for cruz, for rubio, it might give them a nice bump going into the weekend. >> what are we missing in
the coverage of this caucus? is there a story line that we have not explored? like a candidate who may do better than we think they are going to do? >> well, you know, traditionally in iowa, the mythology is there are three tickets out of iowa. would are really looking at this three-way race between donald trump and ted cruz. it's important who gets third here it looks like that's kind of marco marco rubis spot to lose. if there was another candidate who came on and had a good showing and snuck into third place, that would be meaningful. that would mean they still have relevance going into new hampshire and beyond. >> he had? >> i would toss ben carson into this only because this morning at a breakfast with reporters in town he made the argument that polling in the state does not reflect his support. he is going to bring in people who have not done this before. too many polls look at likely or past caucus goers there is a population out there who is supporting me. you are not capturing it. i think we will do better than we thought. he would like to finish in
the top three. after that he suggests that he really has to reevaluate after that he is confident there is a group of people out there, despite the fact that recent surveys show him slipping farther behind. >> the tough point is looking past iowa for the carson campaign. let's turn to the democrats. i went to a bernie sanders event. steel workers union event. obviously that's his wheel house and they were very supportive of him. do you get a sense that his momentum is turning into real people showing up? >> the momentum for him is real. i was out with him several days over the weekend. he is packing these spaces. thousands of people in some cases. i was in decorah, iowa on sunday. which is a town of about 8,000 people. he had a rally with 2300 people on sunday morning. hillary clinton was there yesterday. i think she had 450, something like that. maybe 500. so, there is -- they are doing different things and people at his events are excited.
they say they are fired up. he is strongly encouraging them to caucus. explaining how to caucus. i mean, i think you can't discount -- i mean crowds are just one part of the equation obviously. you can't discount the enthusiasm that he is generating. >> we talk a lot about the horse race. one of the horse race that are driving iowans the most important things you hear. >> we are talking about national security and foreign policy. what do we do about isis? i hear that at the events i go to. underlying concern about the economy and whether we are going to get jobs back to where we need to be or not. you know, i think there is also some traditional kind of parochial issues that are important here. biofuels and energy ethanol. obviously that's become a part of the campaign with our governor coming out against ted cruz in recent weeks. those issues are in play. i think really the big two national security and the economy. >> he had, with, you know, barack obama being the big winner back here in 2008,
now factoring in again in this democratic race with bernie sanders at the white house today. do you sense he displays somehow on the democratic side in iowa? >> well, that's a good question. i don't know for sure. but i think it was quiet telling that the president had him in to the white house. there is an understanding there. he has the possibility here of winning and essential isly inheriting a state that obama won in 2008. understands there is very similar energy for him. they don't have a close relationship at all. they only met twice before in this one-on-one setting despite the fact they served together in the senate. the president stuck his neck out earlier this week by all but endorsing that interview with politico. they probably realize we can't appear to be totally with her because certainly there is a segment of the party, at least here in iowa, probably new hampshire as well that rejects her as the standard bearer and, yes, some of that has to do with him because she has so
fully embraced him and say look he, he picked me to be secretary of state because he trusted my judgment. >> iowau+;=ñ democrats, are they barack obama supporters? do they feel like he has let them down the promises of 2008? is there a sense that the president plays well here? >> no, i think the president plays well here. certainly clinton is talking a lot about her close relationship with the president and the fact that she wants to carry on his legacy. that says that she knows that this is a message that's resting owe-resonating. at the sanders events and clinton events they want to see someone who is going to it move a lot of these issues forward. >> thank you very much. good luck on caucus night. that's it for the panel. stay tuned for some final thoughts about the d
mike huckabee, rick santorum and jim gilmore. the main event is atz: 9:00. donald trump is the top seed. we will see and we still hope he will come. if not, this is what the field will look like. i will moderate the debate along with megyn kelly and chris wallace. we have a lot of topics to cover. a host of things that haven't been asked before and asked in different ways as well. thanks inviting us into your home tonight. that is it for this "special report," fair, balanced and still unafraid. greta goes "on the record" right now. "special report" online, an abbreviated version begins in second. i have got to work on some seconds. >> it is thursday, january 28th. the count down is on to the big republican debate tonight in the
hawkeye state. what you can expect from the candidates as they make a final push for iowa. >> hundreds of department of homeland security badges, cell phones and also guns now unaccounted for. the concern about who might have them. (screams) >> what happens when a father of four boys finally finds out he's having a girl. his priceless reaction. "fox & friends first" starts right now. >> good morning to awe you will. you are watching "fox & friends first". i am ainsley answer heather nau for ainsley earhardt. >> i am heather childers.
>> we are hours away from the debate. >> what can we expect tonight? >> john roberts is live for us in des moines with a preview. good morning, john. >> heather and heather good morning to you from what is positively a balmy des moines, iowa this morning. we don't know what's going to happen tonight. 16 hours until the debates starts. still time for donald trump to change his mind. he his podium will be available. he made good op a promise he made to bill o'reilly last week. he thut there had been enough debates already. >> the democrats are all finished with their debates. they have had six. they were hidden behind football games and every other thing. they are all finished with their gee bates. at some point you have to do othe