next is new york. we have a lot of coverage, a lot of analysis. a lot happening here tonight. that's all the time we have left this evening. stay with the fox news channel. bret bair standing by. american headquarters starts right now. front-runners donald trump and hillary clinton both stumbling in tonight's wisconsin presidential primaries. welcome to america's election headquarters. i'm greg jar. >> and i'm heather. we'll be here with you all night. >> that's right. >> we're just beginning. ted cruz is the winner of the republican contest in wisconsin. as you can see here, cruz has defeated trump by nearly 15% after the win, cruz rallied supporters in milwaukee saying his recent victories are proof he's unifying the party and the republican candidate to beat. >> as a result of tonight, as a resulted of the people of
wisconsin defying the media, defying the pundits, i am more and more convinced that our campaign is going to earn the 1,237 delegates needed. >> the trump campaign responding to tuesday's loss by tearing into texas senator ted cruz. trump's camp said cruz is worse than a puppet and that he's a trojan horse who's being controlled by the party. >> on the democratic side, an hour win for bernie sanders. the vermont senator rolling over clinton in wisconsin. earning a majority of the total vote. >> clinton is still holding on to a large delegate lead. but sanders, who has won six of the last seven nominating contests is leading the badger state with momentum going forward. >> secretary clinton is getting a little nervous. and i don't wanted her to get more nervous. but i believe we've got an excellent chance to win new york, and a lot of delegates in
that state. we have an excellent chance to win in oregon, and to win ka. a lot of these super delegates are going to be looking around them, and they're going to be saying, which candidate hats the momentum? which candidate is bringing out huge numbers of people? >> lots to talk about. let's begin with the republican contest and bring in rich edson in the washington, d.c., bureau with the latest. rich? >> reporter: gregg, ted cruz wins the wisconsin primary, increasing the odds no candidate will arrive at the republican convention in july with the delegates needed to secure the nomination. speaking to reporters shortly after his victory, cruz called his wisconsin win a turning point and vowed to win the nomination, even if it takes a contested convention. >> either before cleveland or at the convention in cleveland,
together we will win a majority of the delegates, and together we will beat hillary clinton in november. >> cruz will secure most of wisconsin's 42 delegates. he's captured about 50% of the vote there. donald trump takes about a third. ohio governor john kasich trails well behind trump. the republican front-runner still maintains a substantial delegate lead. trump's campaign blames the wisconsin loss on the onslaught of the establishment and issued a statement saying, quote, lying ted cruz has the governor of wisconsin, many conservative radio talk show hosts and the entire party apparatus behind him. ted cruz is worse than a puppet. he's a trojan horse being used by the party bosses attempting to steal the nomination from mr. trump. the campaign charges cruz with illegally coordinating with a super pac backing his candidacy. despite a distant third place finish, kasich's campaign said
their candidate is still viable. the campaign's chief strategist, john weaver, writes, quote, the nomination contest is now wide open. tonight's results will solidify that the bound delegates. the republican candidates have two weeks to campaign before the next primary, that's new york. the state offers 95 delegates on a proportional basis. on april 26th, five other northeastern states vote where trump is expected to perform well. >> rich edson in washington. rich, thanks very much. >> dan springer joins us live from wyoming. hi, dan, how is it going tonight? >> reporter: hi, heather. another good night for bernie sanders. he's declared victory in the wisconsin primary. here in wyoming tonight, everyone's talking about new york being the next about ig
contest. before that, distribute voters here in wyoming will have their say. i would say many were packed into this auditorium on the campus of wyoming university. 1,800 of them in fact squeezed into this building. and in an overflow room. a good turnout with a state with only 41,000 registered democrats. party leaders are expecting a record turnout to attend the caucuses this saturday. sanders is expected to win here in wyoming, just as he did recently in idaho, utah, and washington state. if he does, that will give him eight victories in the last nine contests. sanders talked about the momentum he's got and the small campaign donations that add up to big money. he raised $44 million in march. $15 million more than hillary clinton. and despite trailing clinton by more than 600 delegates and needing roughly two-thirds of the remaining delegates to get
the nomination, sanders believes he will do very well in new york and win big in oregon and california, and he says that gives him a path to the nomination. >> please keep this a secret. do not tell secretary clinton she's getting a little nervous. and i don't wanted her to get more nervous. but i believe we've got an excellent chance to win new york, and a lot of delegates in that state. >> sanders also seemed to call out the 469 super delegates that so far have pledged their allegiance to mrs. clinton. four of them are here in the state of wyoming. he believes once they see all the momentum that he's generated, they will come to his side. here in wyoming, they only have 18 total delegates. 14 will be up for grabs on saturday. it's possible with the four already pledged to clinton, he could break even. not really the recipe for a guy who is still trailing secretary
clinton. >> but still pulling in big crowds, so we can see what happens. dan springer live for us. we'll check back with you. thank you. >> certainly a reversal of fortunes for the republican and democratic front-runners, donald trump, hillary clinton, in wisconsin on tuesday. a check of the exit polls might help us understand what happened there. kelly rice joins us live from the new york city news room. >> what have we learned about the mind-set of the exit polls? one thing we've learned is wisconsin republicans who voted are more conservative compared to the last presidential primary. which paved the way for senator ted cruz to have a good victory tonight. while on the democratic side, well, democrat voters in wisconsin are more liberal this year. the results are very clear in a good win for bernie sanders tonight as we've just seen. looking at the exit polls, we get a very good view of what the voters in wisconsin are concerned about. 32% believe the economy and jobs
is the most important issue facing the country right now. 30% believe the most important issue is terrorism, while 6% believe it's immigration and voters were also asked, how worried they are about the direction of the nation's economy in the next few years. well, an overwhelming 94% of the voters say they are very worried. and that's a concern going nationally as well. the exit polling, the voters in the badger state expressed the feelings they have towards the federal government working. the response showing that 87% are dissatisfied or angry with the feds. and when asked if they feel betrayed by politicians from the republican party, 52% said yes, 45% said no. the wisconsin voters are split almost down the middle on whether the next president should have experience in politics, or be an outsider the political establishment. gop voters in wisconsin also
favor a temporary ban on muslims which is a plan ted cruz had been touting. and looking towards november, gop primary voters say the thought of donald trump being the republican presidential nominee, this is quite a split here, it inspires excitement on the one hand and fear on the other compared to republican rivals ted cruz and governor john kasich. as the race moves on to other states like new york, analysts say we're likely on a road to a contested republican convention in cleveland. stay tuned. >> it gets curiouser and curiouser. >> it does. >> kelly, thanks. we are joined now by our panel of fox news contributors. author judith miller, analyst and campaign consultant tony is also the national correspondent for talk radio news service. and ellen ratner, bureau chief for talk media news. thank you once again for joining us tonight. >> good evening. >> good evening. >> judy, we'll start with you.
not really big surprises tonight. if you locked at the polls going into this evening, we had cruz coming out on top and bernie sanders as well. why do you think they were able to top it off? >> i think that donald trump's magic has been turning out voters. that is turning out people who haven't voted before, or who voted on the other side of the aisle. what we saw in wisconsin today was that donald trump managed to turn off more voters than he turned out. because the negatives for donald trump who has had the worst two weeks in politics that i think i can imagine, the negatives are so high, that neil newhouse, who is a republican veteran pollster, says they are unprecedented. i think that's what he was going up against in the state of wisconsin. so the question is, is wisconsin an outlier, is it an exception, or is it the beginning of that long trend that people have been predicting for months now? >> the speed bump.
>> is it a speed bump or is this the beginning of the end for donald trump. >> according to the "wall street journal" which has crunched the numbers, trump has to capture two-thirds of the remaining bound delegates in the 17 states left. look at his track record. he has been winning about 46% of the delegates. this is a very, very steep climb for trump to go into cleveland with a majority of the delegates, isn't it? ? the pathway to reach a 1,237 threshold was already narrow. not only with ted cruz winning, but by a large enough margin to take the vast majority of delegates from wisconsin, because it's a winner take most allocation state. it's a significant development if your thought was trump at one point steamed unstoppable. it looks like he's fairly numerically stoppable before cleveland. the bigger part, though, and you can see how trump doesn't understand what actually
happened in wisconsin, he calls it part of the establishment kind of ganging up on him. wisconsin has been yound zero for skrt activism for the past five years. a recall at the center of the conservative movement in this country. >> a huge organization, walker does. >> that's what stood up to donald trump. not the republican establishment. not the ruling class in washington. >> conservative radio talk show hosts who all sort of ganged up, like a half a dozen of them and they all went after trump. >> they scheduled an interview with talk show sykes who went after trump. where was trump's vetting -- where were his people vetting trump. he's in the stop trump movement. they schedule an interview with him. >> the larger issue is there's this misunderstanding, or misuse of the word establishment. donald trump wants to define the establishment as anyone who is not for him.
that's not correct. there is a ruling class establishment in washington, of party leaders in boston, and there's a conservative movement in this country that has deep-seeded doubts about trump as a bona fide leader of that same conservative movement. >> tony, what i was going to ask you, then by your definition, who is the establishment supporting as with eapproach this convention? as you said, it looks more and more hikely we're going to have a contested convention. >> i think the establishment is without any candidate they had initially preferred. anyone who followed politics for the last several years could hardly call ted cruz the desired choice of the republican party leadership in washington, d.c. he's actually stood up against it more than any other senator in washington. always outspoken. he shut down the federal government much against their wishes back in 2013. but what you are seeing now with ted cruz is he's viewed as the most viable person to stop donald trump, and for a group
that wants to do that, that's why ther -- >> he was on "hannity" earlier this evening. he tried to kind of really hammer him on, will you pick a third person to bring them into the convention? and reince priebus said no, he thinks it will be one of the people who is now running for president. not discounting john kasich. >> ellen, let me ask you on the democratic side here. hillary clinton's campaign, confidently after new hampshire, predicted that the race would be over, she would have the nomination by march. we're into april now. and bernie sanders has won six of the last seven. tonight seven of the last eight contests. he's got the big mo going for him, doesn't he? >> well, he does. i get all these guys, and women, e-mails asking for money. and just tonight before we went on the air, there was a hillary clinton e-mail asking for money.
but saying, we have basically won the nomination. and her momentum will not stop. and so that is the way -- and i actually talked to a big hillary person right before we went on air, and they're also saying she's got the nomination wrapped up. that is where they're going. >> there are 500 super delegates. most of them are party leaders, and everyday members of congress. they're all pledged to her. clinton has among the super delegates 469. bernie sanders has a mere 31. >> right. except that if you look at the election in 2008, barack obama, she also had the super delegates wrapped up. and they went the other way. >> they flipped, yeah. >> but someone had also said earlier that she is running now in president obama's democratic party. and not the democratic party at that time. >> with a lot of the same aides, by the way, a lot of the obama people have moved over to her. she is not making the same
mistakes she did before. she's really formidable. i think barring something on the legal side, she is well on her way to her goal. >> maybe not her, but somebody close to her, if they get indicted, would you envision that the vast majority, if not all of those 500 super delegates could suddenly flip to sanders, and my goodness, that really changes the numerical dynamic. >> what would be extraordinary if that were the case, were that to happen, and this is purely hypothetical, you would have an instance in which even if bernie sanders, even though he's -- we've said it forever, you would basically have almost all outsiders being the front-runners in the republican and democratic side except for hillary clinton. everyone else is new. she would be the old known quantity. i don't think she wants to be in that position. but i think, look, if you ask democrats, they say there is no chance whatsoever that she is
going to be indicted, or anyone close to her is going to be indicted. i think that is the unknown factor. of course they say that. >> she's got to say that. you're not going to say, oh, gee, everybody's going to get ib ditd, including me. >> the fbi, having withstood some of the questioning, understanding the kinds of investigations they are now conducting, i think she is in terrible legal peril. i think her camp is. >> i was going to say, i agree with judy. she's learned from her mistakes in the past but she's making some new ones. she totally wrote off wisconsin when she saw the polling from last week. the new democratic party coalition is young voters. >> we'll get back to you. we'll start with you, i promise, in the next segment. i like how you said he has the mo going. >> momentum. >> sorry. i guess i was being too hip for the crowd.
too hip for the room. wisconsin voters hand ted cruz an indisputable primary victory. >> but is it enough to side track front-runner donald trump and pave the way for a contested convention? the former communications director for the republican national committee breaks down the delegate map. my son and i used to watch the red carpet shows on tv
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ted cruz and bernie sanders narrowing the margin between them and the respective party front-runners, but donald trump is still leading the republican race by more than 200 delegates. and hillary clinton retains her substantial lead over bernie sanders. joining us to talk about it, doug, the deputy chief of staff of communications for house majority leader eric cantor, and is the former communications director of the republican national see you. >> good to see you. thank you. >> doug, let's talk a few numbers here for just a moment. 150 unbound delegates. rubio has 171 delegates which he's hanging on to. the unbound delegates, and rubio's delegates, if they were
directed to go to ted cruz, is it possible cruz could actually win on the first ballot? >> is it possible? sure. it's not likely. but in this election, we've seen that there are a whole lot of unlikely things that not only become likely, but have happened. it's tough to make absolute predictions. as we've known, this has been so wide open. with esee donald trump is now with tonight's results really hurting. his path has gotten harder, even though he remains in the lead. that's why this race is so amazing. >> trump lost noncollege white men. that has never happened before. >> no. no, this is a big surprise. what we've seen in polling is he's obviously got high negatives we talked a lot about with hispanic voters or women voters. most recently we saw he's at 51% unfavorable with white male voters. and that's his base. he lost tonight in wisconsin. that's what makes his path moving forward even tougher. >> it kind of makes you wonder what's going on. trump lost badly among women.
and of course, he had a bad week insofar as women are concerned, his campaign manager is accused and charged of assaulting a female reporter. of course, trump was mocking ted cruz's wife. and then, of course, the comment that women who seek abortions should be punished. although he quickly corrected himself. has these aggravated his considerable deficit with women? >> it really has. we've talked about the picture that was tweeted about heidi cruz, it's highlighted this. what we've seen is these aren't necessarily attacks from the establishment, or outside groups or things like that. these are fouls that donald trump has committed on himself. he can't blame it on anybody else with any credibility. >> trump continues to defend his abortion remark. in fact, he said a lot of people thought my answer was excellent.
does he have an allergy to admitting that he screwed up, and is that also part of his problem? >> he absolutely has an allergy to admitting he screwed up. it's refreshing once in a while to see someone apologize for a mistake they made and be proactive about it. trump's personality, though, is that he's the strongest one in the race. not only is he allergic to it, he can't do it because he has to appear impervious. >> another thing people aren't talking too much about is money. donald trump brags that he's self-funded and beholding to nobody. but that may be actually a serious problem. he only spent $12.5 million in 2005. he spent less than $40 million so far this year. no real super tuesday buys. and i'm wondering if he has enough money, his financial disclosure said he has $300 million on hand. everything else is tied up and
hard to sell assets. and hillary clinton plans to spend $2.5 billion. that's her fund-raising goal. he's going to have money problems, isn't he? >> sure. and we're already seeing that manifest itself in the staff problems he has. since he's moved from one state to the next, as he's left that state, instead of leaving behind a real power base, a real organization, he's laid off staffers. it was reported today the trump campaign is having trouble accessing its own data because they laid off some of their data staff. i think where that will really come into may is the convention certainly, where ted cruz will be very organized. even before that, look at california. ted cruz is going to be organized in every congressional district. he's got the endorsement of the republican assembly that's very powerful. what that means is in the delegate map, three delegates per congressional district, if you look at the central valley which is really conservative
area of california, kevin mccarthy's district, nunez, those congressional districts could give trump delegates which chokes off trump. it all comes down to two things, organization, and delegates. >> you can't win the presidency on a shoe string budget. it appears to what trump has been doing so far. might have had the whole thing wrapped up by now if he'd spent real money. good to see you, doug. >> thank you. >> big night in the wisconsin republican primary. ted cruz is talking about what comes next. >> he talked about his plans for clinching the nomination. listen to this. >> either before cleveland or at the convention in cleveland, together we will win a majority of the delegates, and together we will beat hillary clinton in november. ♪
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nomination. we're joined by alice stewart, the communications director for the cruz campaign. and she joins us now with some more on the phone. >> hi. >> congratulations on the win in wisconsin. but up next, the northeast states. will we see a change in the messaging from the cruz campaign, his message, his tone moving forward? >> his message and tone has worked tremendously. so there's no point in changing anything. look, just a few weeks ago we were ten points behind here in wisconsin. and we just beat donald trump by 15 points. so a 25-point swing in a matter of a few weeks is pretty significant. what we've seen over the past few weeks, the terrain is shifting. recently in utah we had a tremendous victory in utah, as well as colorado and north dakota. now wisconsin. and ted's message, positive message of jobs, freedom and security is resonating with
people. and we're seeing the republican party and true conservatives rallying behind him. because they see and recognize he is a candidate that not only can he beat donald trump, but beat hillary clinton in november. >> it does appear that a lot of the party leaders, scott walker, of course, being the governor there in wisconsin, banding behind ted cruz. but we have this one fox news exit poll i wanted to bring to your attention. in this particular poll, it says 37% of people questioned say they are concerned or scared about a president cruz. the question was actually if ted cruz is elected president, which best describes your feelings about what he would do in office. 14% excited, 47% optimistic, but 24% and 13% concerned or scared. so does that concern you? >> absolutely not. look, we came out of a tremendous victory here in wisconsin. which comes on the heels, as i said, of the last four contests
we resoundingly won. here's a number that needs to be taken note of. 75% of women have an unfavorable rating for donald trump. and his approval ratings among women has gone down significantly over the past several weeks. look, he's been at 30% here in wisconsin for weeks now. and as we move further on to new york, and other states, we'll continue to see that the more people see and hear of ted cruz, the more we receive support, and conversely, the more people see and hear of donald trump, he's losing support. what we learned tonight more than anything is that republicans and conservatives are behind ted cruz, because they understand that he, "a," represents the party and their values, and is consistent and solid on the issues, and he's someone that they know that what
he says to them on the campaign trail is how he will lead as the nominee and certainly as president. we're seeing that more and more with ted cruz, and donald trump is losing support. that will continue as we move further down the primary calendar. >> what's your strategy, though? is your strategy to win over delegates? there's allegations you're going back to some of these states and sway the delegates as you move toward the convention. >> heather, the primary goal and primary objective is to reach 1,237. as far as the necessary delegates, to achieve the nomination. it's pretty simple. it's pretty basic math, to win the nomination, you have to receive a majority of the votes, plain and simple. donald trump doesn't really seem to comprehend that. but it's receiving a majority of the votes. that's our goal. that's what we've been able to do in terms of a delegate debate, and will continue to do so. >> i do have one other question.
and i'll read this. this is from the trump statement that they issued tonight. i wanted to ask you if you wanted to respond to a couple of things that he said in here. one being not only was he, cruz, propelled by the anti-trump super pac spending countless millions of dollars on false advertising against mr. trump, but he was coordinating with his own superpac which is illegal, to totally control him. do you have a response to that? >> donald doesn't seem to understand the basic rules of how presidential campaigns are run. every event that we've participated in was completely 100% in compliance with the fcc rules. and donald trump, who never shies away from a lawsuit, if he truly believes what he's saying in that statement, he'll take action. but everything we've done is 100% in compliance with the fcc rules. and at the end of the day, we won.
we won resoundingly. and we're going to take this on and continue our momentum as we move further ahead into new york, and on down the calendar. if donald trump wants to engage in that kind of behavior just because he lost significantly here in wisconsin, that's his prerogative. we're going to stay above the fray. we'll continue focusing on jobs, freedom and security. and continue to take our message on to the voters, and we expect to receive 1,237, whether it's prior to convention or on the convention floor. >> winning 48.4% tonight in wisconsin. so congratulations to your campaign. we'll see what happens moving forward. thank you so much for joining us. >> thanks. have a good night. >> good-bye, alice. >> let's go back to our panel now. judith miller, and tony, also a national political correspondent for talk radio news service. ellen ratner for talk media
news. ellen, the donald trump statement here says ted cruz is a trojan horse for the establishment. really? that's ted cruz's biggest problem. the establishment doesn't like him. the most disliked man in the u.s. senate. with i is why a lot of supporters back him. >> the fact is that is that he has not been exactly collegiate in the senate. that will be a problem when he gets to cleveland, ohio. >> for trump to say he's a trojan horse is absurd. >> that's very true. but don't forget that donald trump has said a lot of things in this election that are not true. for instance, he went after the governor of wisconsin. how are you going to win wisconsin by going after a very -- with the republicans -- a popular governor. >> eugene robinson pointed out in yesterday's "washington post," trump's campaign has been full of gaffes that would doom a
traditional politician. is it now finally, if not belatedly, having a discernible effect, and we're seeing it tonight in wisconsin? >> absolutely. people like me who from the beginning have said this cannot last, it will not last. we were wrong. until tonight. but i think when you see an accumulation of the kind of mistakes that he's been making, you can't walk away from this, you can't get away from it. that coupled with ted cruz's extraordinary personality makeover, all of a sudden cracking jokes, appearing to be one of the guys, this is a new ted cruz that we've been seeing. it's not the abrasive ted cruz that led john mccain to question whether or not he was even an american, which is pretty strong stuff in the u.s. senate. the most collegial group of people ever. >> right. >> a new ted cruz reshaping himself. as you mentioned earlier, the
mistakes that donald trump's made at least lately, self-inflicted. >> absolutely. >> does he have an opportunity now to turn things around and kind of change the way he approaches things? >> what bret was mentioning, it's his fault and move forward. >> but he doesn't do it. that's not his m.o. that's not the way he operates. >> he did it back on the abortion issue and restate himself eventually. >> donald trump managed to do what no other candidate has done is unite americans against him. after he made that statement. virtually everyone condemned him. therefore, you saw -- >> it was such an easy question j it was such an easy question. you know, it reflected the one true weakness of this campaign, which is, dontrump's unwillingness to prepare, his winging it, his, i'm me, and -- >> do you think he has books but he just doesn't read them? >> i know there were foreign
policy analysts, not the top tier, because over 100 of them signed letters saying they would never support him, but there are others who are willing to brief him and he never had the time to listen to them. this is not a serious candidate. >> we've got to go. we're coming right back to you guys very shortly, judith, tony and ellen. thanks. coming up, two people with campaign experience will be joining us to talk about wisconsin. >> it was not a good night for the two front-runners. what will that mean going ahead? we will see changes in their strategy -- will we see those? we'll talk about that coming up. your path to retirement may not always be clear. but at t. rowe price, we can help guide your retirement savings. so wherever your retirement journey takes you, we can help you reach your goals. call us or your advisor t. rowe price. invest with confidence. and i'm still struggling with my diabetes.
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our next guest says ted cruz's victory tonight raises questions about whether donald trump has hit a plateau. joining us now, jamie weinstein, senior editor for the daily
poll. donald trump is looking ahead. a huge lead in new york. substantial lead in california. leads in pennsylvania. all of those are delegate-rich states. so maybe it's only a temporary bump in the road for donald trump. >> he certainly favored the rest of this month with the six other primary states that we'll see on april 19th and april 26th. even if he wins the vast majority of those delegates,
80%, 90% of those delegates, after tonight, there is question after april, if he can consolidate enough delegates going forward to get the 1,237 delegates he needs to win on the first ballot. i think he would have to have an overwhelming victory in california. it just doesn't look like that might be the case at this point. which means it will go to the convention in july. at the convention, the wisz dom at this point, and i think it's right, donald trump would not emerge from a contested convention as the nominee. >> the exit polling data from wisconsin this evening, one of the most important issues for republicans was electability. is that what hurt donald trump that a lot of republicans say, i'm looking at the other polls that he loses badly to hillary clinton in a general election? >> it might. marco rubio always fared west on electability. and that didn't help him. john kasich, if you look at the
electable polls against hillary clinton, he's the most electable of the three candidates in head-to-head races. that certainly didn't help him. donald trump had a rough couple of weeks. the abortion issue, some other problems with his campaign. i'm sure that dragged him down a little bit. but there's questions of whether maybe he's finally going to plateau in the sense he's depended upon kind of his media strategy to win this primary process. not really campaign organization, not an extensive campaign staff. kind of getting on television and winning through the media. and maybe that's reached the end of its effectiveness. right now that did not look like a good strategy here in wisconsin. >> you mentioned a moment ago in passing, john kasich, governor of ohio. he's only won his home state. not a good night for him again in wisconsin. is it true that the longer that kasich stays in the race, the more em bittered republicans may be toward him?
>> i don't see a path certainly for john kasich to win the nomination. it would take something extraordinary at the convention to go to john kasich, who may at that point have still only won one state out of all the contests that were there. and that certainly would probably have trouble kind of unifying the party around a guy who's only won one state. but he thinks that, you know, no one's going to get the number of delegates, they'll go to convention, and by the rules, it's open to anybody. even someone who has won no states. so he thinks that if he he remains in the race, he'll stay in the conversation. but right now it's hard to see what state he can win next. >> jamie, good to see you. thanks. >> good to see you. >> still to come, the major upset for donald trump in the nation's heartland. >> the republican front-runner's defeat in wisconsin. one of the roughest stretches so far in his presidential bid. and democratic underdog bernie sanders enjoys a new burst of momentum.
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joining us from our washington bureau is the former deputy assistant to president george w. bush. hank was a consultant to the clinton-gore campaign. thank you for sticking around and joining us. >> thank you. >> hank, i'll start with you. moving forward as we approach the conventions, what do both parties need to do to bring voters together? >> that's a difficult question to answer, because the republican party has come to some of their senses for a while and slowed the populous tract down a bit and the extreme language and the things people resent about trump, and supported scott walker in wisconsin. in new york, it's a different story. we're coming in with bernie sanders and hillary clinton in battle. it appears bernie sanders will have momentum coming into the state. not good news for the clintons. and this will take some time to shake itself out. despite the fact she has the higher delegate count. >> will that momentum be enough for him to top clinton in new
york? >> people are very angry across the country. what's interesting about the trump loss this evening is people are a little bit less angry in wisconsin, more rational. in new york, i would bet that bernie sanders is going to do a lot better than people think. among the same groups he's done well throughout the country. >> brad, turning to republicans, you know, trump continued to do well with outsiders in wisconsin. but lost pretty much across the board some key groups in demographics he had been winning all along. >> yes. he's still a plurality candidate. he hasn't been able to break the majority to wrap this up and get to 1,237. we're going forward, heather, each campaign has a two-pronged strategy at this point. one, you have to have a strategy in a campaign that's geared solely toward a contend convention, and then you have to have a ground game for the all-important big states like california, new york, and
pennsylvania. to me, i think those are going to be the definitive states, because they're delegate-rich, they're big states, and you need those kind of wins to get the momentum you need going into the convention. convention strategy coupled with an on-the-ground grass roots strategy in those about ig states are going to be determined going into the convention who has the momentum. >> what if trump wins all three of those states that you mentioned? what if he gets to the convention, and by some math that folks are doing, he would be missing, what, 40 or 42 delegates? what happens then? >> well, you've got 150 at-large delegates now that are delegates that are not committed. i believe ted cruz is probably working those people as we speak. trump's a little late to the game in that kind of organization. but if he's that short, it would be very hard to deny him the nomination. look, it's never happened by somebody getting that close, not to say it won't happen, but i think it would be hard to unify the party. >> the unbound delegates in the
republican party, also the super delegates in the democratic party. and hank, do you think on that point that any of those super delegates will switch over? >> look, it's a fix in any party to make the choice of the elites should win. california's probably the entire game. on the democrat party, the super delegates will certainly put hillary clinton-the top. but bernie sanders is going to make her life really miserable. he continues to do so. that will create problems for democrats across the board. by the way, today is a great day for deliverance of republicans. they can say look at what happened to clinton in wisconsin as well. >> brad and hank, thank you so much for joining us this evening. >> thank you. >> appreciate it. is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves?
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