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tv   Hannity  FOX News  August 28, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PDT

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at the ripe old age of 27. and that's it for today. have a great week. we'll see you next "fox news sunday."hear his answer tomorro 9:00 p.m. see you then. welcome to "hannity," and we are broadcasting live from the acl theater in austin, texas, part two of our exclusive event with republican presidential nominee donald trump. last night you heard the heartbreaking stories of family members whose loved ones were kill by illegal immigrants and we also showed you a lot of statistics on the impact that illegal immigration is having on you, the american people, and we'll be putting those slides and information up on the screen all night. also tonight you're going to hear from former texas governor rick perry, former new york city mayor rudy giuliani, rick
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sessions, donald trump jr., and many other experts on the issues. plus, we sent a "hannity" producer down to the border to capture the challenges that these brave men and women, our border patrol agents, are dealing with every single day. here's just part of what you will see tonight. let's take a look. >> illegal immigrants are pouring into our country. they are being released by the tens of thousands into our communities with no regard for the impact on public safety or resources. >> anything that comes across, whether it's human beings, whether it's narcotics. what people don't realize is it takes a human being to bring something across. >> by ending catch and release on the border, we will end the cycle of human smuggling and violence. >> these are business ventures by criminal organizations. >> we are going to build a great border wall to stop illegal immigration, to stop the gangs
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and the violence and to stop the drugs from pouring into our communities. >> here now with reaction, 2016 republican presidential nominee donald trump, austin, a warm welcome for mr. trump. our health care system, and also the human toll. >> right. >> we met victims' families last
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night, or families of victims. you want to build a wall. you're going to build that wall within two years? >> not a question of wanting. we have no choice. >> going to build a wall? >> we have no choice. >> let's talk about it's 2,000 miles. explain you're only going to build 1,000 of wall, what do you do on the other thousand miles? >> like i said last night, it's 13,000 miles to china, right, that was 2,000 years ago and they had no trouble. they had plenty of labor, no question about it, but they had no trouble. we have 2,000 miles, but we need 1,000. it's 1,000 versus 13,000, and it's modern. it will get done so quickly, your head will spin. it gets done quickly. it will be a real wall. it will be a real wall. won't be one of these little toys you see every once in a while our government throws up a little wall like this. did you ever see a picture in the magazine where a ramp goes
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up and down? i don't know why they didn't push it over, would have been cheaper. drugs come over and the cash goes back. >> what do you think the height should be? >> i think the height could be 35 to 45 feet. that's a good height. that's a good height. anywhere in that neighborhood. could be higher. >> let me go to the issue, 11.3 million immigrants in the country right now. you said immediately last night all criminal aliens out day one, correct? all right, now, by the way -- >> if that weren't so simple, some things you sort of feel bad. this one, we have these killers in this country, they are heading up gangs. you go out exactly, exactly, exactly. >> lost children right here behind you. >> those guys, if we ever find them, if i'm president, oh -- trouble. trouble. and, you know, the other thing is you're going to bring up some border patrol folks, incredible
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people. but it's so hard for the police. if somebody's protecting between the sanctuary city nonsense, we have to get rid of the sanctuary city. we're protecting these people. we're protecting criminals. and the police, who are phenomenal people, they almost -- they are at a point where they almost give up. they catch them, they have them, they know they did it, and then they know nothing's going to happen. you know, okay, so if you're a killer and you're in this country, they go after you big league and it's tough. if you're a killer and you're an illegal immigrant, the police don't know what to do. >> let me go back, i know we got into this a little bit last night, but i think this is going to be a big issue, and that is, okay, you're not a criminal alien, you committed no crimes, but you didn't respect the laws and sovereignty. you also seem to be indicating there might be something other than they have to go back. am i reading that right? >> we have to follow the laws of
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our country. we have to follow the laws. >> let me go back -- >> we have to follow the laws. now, can we be, and i'll ask the audience, you have somebody who's terrific, who's been here 20 years. >> right. long time. long court proceeding, long everything, okay, in other words to get them out. can we go through a process or do you think they have to get out? tell me. i don't know. you tell me. >> how many think they should go through a process that -- clap. how many think they should go? >> do it again. do it again. let me ask you, because this place is packed. does everybody get this kind of a crowd? >> no, no. >> see, this is why he keeps calling us back, right? look, let me ask you, you have somebody that's been in the country for 20 years, has done a great job, everything else,
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okay, do we take him and the family, her or him or whatever and send them out? they are gone? or when somebody really has shown, you know, like the merit system other than they did break the law in the first place, okay, and that's a little unfair to people, but we're going to let people come in anyway. we'll let people come in anyway. it's not going to happen, in fact. do we tell these people to get out, number one, or do we work with them and let them stay in some form? okay, are you ready? i'm just curious. because it's a very interesting -- wait, wait, so the bad ones, the gang members, all them, what do you think? does anybody disagree on the gang members? is there one person, yeah, there's a gang member over there. okay. is there one person, and i mean we will get them out so fast. you know, the police know who they are. this is no, like, great secret,
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i wonder who they are. these police know, and the people know who they are. the police know who they are and they are going to be gone like so fast your head will spin. okay, that's easy, right? so now we have the person 20 years, upstanding person, the family's great, everyone's great. do we throw them out, or do we work with them and try? >> how many say work with them? >> number one, throw out. number two, we work with them. ready? number one. number two. >> this is important, so you're saying there is -- you have been sort of indicating that there will be some flexibility that originally you had said they are all out, there was a big brouhaha, but you're saying if somebody can prove they've been here, proven to be a citizen, but here's the big question, though, no citizenship.
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no citizenship. everyone agree with that? >> let me go a step further, they'll pay back taxes, they have to pay taxes, there's no amnesty as such. there's no amnesty. >> right. >> but we work with them. now, okay, but when i look at -- i have this all over, everybody agrees we get the bad ones out, but when i go through and meet thousands and thousands of people on the subject and i've had very strong people come up to me, really great, great people come up to me and they've said mr. trump, i love you, but to take a person that's been here for 15 or 20 years and throw them and the family out, it's so tough, mr. trump. i have it all the time. it's a very, very hard thing. look, this is like a poll, there's thousands of people in this room. who wants those people thrown out? who wants them? who wants them? who's the guy that wants them
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thrown out? >> the guy that wants them thrown out, stand up. stand up. >> stand up. >> all right. hold on. who doesn't want them thrown out. who does not want them thrown out. >> stand up. and that raises -- mr. trump, that raises a really important question. you heard it from the audience. what is your gut tell you? >> this is like a poll. this is like a poll, and i love the guy that stood up and said -- where's that guy? i love this guy. this is my guy. i get it, i get it. i understand what you're saying, but this is sort of like a poll
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and this is what i'm getting all over the country. we are going to come out with a decision very soon. the bad guys are out of here. now that one we agree on. they are going to be out of here even faster than you can throw them out, i'm telling you. >> where's the lady from the last hour? she was great. >> the few people that stood up, there weren't that many for the number two, but the few people that stood up, i get that. i really get that. they call jobs, from the economy standpoint, we can't get jobs for our own people and we're supplying jobs, but everywhere i go, i get the same reaction. they want toughness, they want firmness, they want to obey the law, but, but, they feel that throwing them out as a whole family when they've been here for a long time it's a tough thing. they do feel bad. >> let me throw a statistic into
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the mix here, if you all don't mind. all right, so illegal immigrants, we have 95 million americans right now out of the labor force. >> right. >> okay, we have the lowest labor participation rate in the 70s, worst recovery since the '40s and this guy's doubled our national debt and we have 12 million more americans on food stam in poverty. so if we secure the border, that would prevent competition for the 95 million out of work. >> 100%. by the way, and by the way, when he says secure, i mean this is a real border. we're not playing games. this is a real border. and, and, those people that have been working so hard to come into the country and going through the process, we're going to take them in and cherish them and they are going to love us. we want the ones that are going to love us, not the ones that are going to create problems. >> one other aspect of this, then we have to go to break and
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that is your extreme vetting. >> extreme, extreme vetting. >> it's not just the border. and we got into this a little last night. if you grow up in a country and you think -- by the way, i don't know what your life is like at home, i'm not telling my daughter, my sisters, my wife, how to dress. they get to drive a car. they also get to decide for themselves about school and work, et cetera. we don't discriminate against people that are jewish, et cetera. >> sean, i know exactly your question, when they come in through syria through the migration and we have no idea who they are, we have no idea, they give you phoney papers or don't have any papers, we're not going to allow them to come into this country. hillary clinton wants them to pour into the country. we're not going to allow them to come into the country. >> we're just getting started. we'll continue. more with donald trump, he's here for the entire hour. up next joined by former texas governor rick perry, rudy giuliani, and we'll speak with
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border patrol agents about the challenges they are facing on a daily basis. we have the tape, what they saw, including an arrest not far from austin. straight ahead. >> we've got this probably about 18-foot-tall fence, what we call a pedestrian fence. people will say that, you know, this won't stop anybody from coming across. they are right. it won't stop it. but we're going to do for us as border patrol agents one very important thing, going to slow them down. going to give us the right amount of time for us to get here and prevent, and if we can't prevent it, this person decides to make an entry, we're going to have the ability to make an apprehension.
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trapped in hotels. i'm jackie ibanez, now back to "hannity". narcotics and contraband are
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just part of the border. the important thing is that they don't come across by themselves. it takes a human being to bring them across. we did see apprehensions after 2006 when the fence came about, infrastructure came about, but yet we didn't see that drop in narcotics. you know, those are not controlled by recon. doesn't matter if there are jobs in the united states or not, drugs are still going to be tried to be brought into the united states. >> that was a border patrol agent talking about drugs being smuggled across the border back in july 2014, texas department of public safety gave me a briefing about the border along with then governor rick perry. watch this. >> 90% of our undocumented al n aliens that are apprehended along the texas border occurs here in the rio grande valley.
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criminal aliens have been responsible for about 642,000 criminal offenses. >> homicides, over 3,000 committed by criminal aliens. >> joining us now, former texas governor rick perry. mayor rudy giuliani, alabama senator jeff sessions, as we continue with donald trump. how about a warm austin welcome. thank you all. governor -- [ applause ] governor, i was in the supposed to be in that briefing with you. obama was supposed to be there, but he didn't go. now, we just -- for those of you who couldn't see the monitor, that showed from 2008 to 2014, seven-year period, in your state while you were governor, 642,000 crimes committed against texans
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alone, including murder, rape, all sorts of crimes. that is, to me, the most underreported story in the country. tell us about it. >> well, the real issue for me is that that southern region of that border, and that was what we brought to the attention of you and your viewers and the people of this country, that 150-mile region, mr. mayor, 53% of all the apprehensions along the entire 1,800-mile border from tijuana from brownsville occurred right there. and what we wanted to show the president, look, mr. president, you fish where the fish are. and you go where the problems are. i mean, they get up and they talk about we put this much money into border patrol, this much, this much. the fact is, they are putting the resources in the wrong places. if they would put the resources
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along that southern region, where the real problems are, then you would see extraordinary impact. and we saw by putting our law enforcement already on the border driving down those -- one thing i do know, when donald trump is the president of the united states, we'll have somebody that cares about securing that border. i know that. >> you know, i've been down to the border, as i said, about a dozen times, rio grande of san diego, tunnels underneath, all terrain vehicles, helicopter, both with you, i've seen gang members arrested. when we were doing a show there in the rio grande, a family from el salvador got arrested ten feet away from us that day. governor -- sorry, he's america's mayor, rudy giuliani, good friend of mine. you know, i watch all the years
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that you were the mayor of new york city, and you took a murder rate of 2,500 about a year and drove it down to about 500. you had 650,000 new york city residents alone on welfare. what was the number when you left? >> we got it down by 600,000. >> okay. and here's my question. donald trump says extreme vetting. donald trump says control the border. i remember the media went after you with a vengeance like they are going after him. true or false? >> i remember. hundreds of "new york times" editorials when i required people on welfare to work. they went crazy. they went crazy. i required them to work 18 hours a week, and i went to all of the different places i could go where the poor people lived, and i said to them, i'm doing it for
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your good. because i want you to get up in the morning and go to work. and rick is absolutely right, the program that helped us the most in reducing crime was the con stad program. it took our police department and instead of having them sitting in precincts where there was no crime, the program, because you analyze crime every day, moves police around to where the crime really was. one of the reasons we had so much crime in new york was because we were, as donald trump occasionally says, we were stupid. i swear to god, we were stupid. we had them in the wrong place. crime was taking place on the subway platforms and we had police officers in the subway cars. >> but what i saw, and i watched this whole process, and you don't back down from the media. you didn't back down from the media. you didn't back down.
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senator sessions didn't back down. it seems when 65% of every exit poll in the primaries said republicans felt betrayed by the republican party -- right? isn't it because they don't have the courage to take the stand and senator sessions, i'll ask you, what do you say to some of your fellow republicans that are mysteriously reluctant and resistant to keep their pledge and to support the candidate? >> well, donald trump has spoken out for millions of americans. he has been their voice and he's proven by the stars he's taken and the bending up and the values that we believe in. and so i tell my republican colleagues, you need to listen to this. donald trump is bringing in new voters, people who are frustrated and tired of the
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system as it is. we need to listen to what his message is, and join with it and we'll have a great party with a new surge of voters. >> mr. trump, this raises a really interesting question. if -- by the way, you have every reason -- you have every reason to be mad at governor perry, because if governor perry didn't create a million jobs just in texas alone, obama would have had negative job growth in the first term of his presidency. here's a question, though, these are three men who have governed successfully. are these three people you would want to work for you? >> absolutely.
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because we really did ask rick perry a little bit of a tough question. rick is saying, i don't like this question. rick perry was a great governor. he did a fantastic job as governor. fantastic. >> we have one more protester. >> so now -- >> i feel like i'm back in new york. >> all right. i don't think -- you all didn't hear rudy giuliani, the mayor said, i feel like i'm back in new york. i feel back at home. we got to take a break. i want to ask you one quick question. donald trump's agenda about refugees, about the wall, the border, his plan to repeal obamacare, his origin nal stickg to the aid, building up our
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military. do you three as advisers, do you think it would be a good idea if you put it down on paper and said donald trump promises to america his top 15 items? good idea or bad idea, governor perry? >> it's a good idea, and basically he's done that. he's laid out very clearly for the american people. >> i want to see it in bold. >> i think if it were in writing like that, sean, it would be hard for a lot of these republicans who are not supporting him. after all, that's what the party stands for, right? for the last eight years we're against obamacare, we're in favor of lowering taxes, we're in favor of getting rid of regulation. we're in favor of stopping illegal immigration. >> supreme court judges. >> supreme court justices. >> by the way, hillary's justices or mr. trump's justices, what do you think? >> what do they want?
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what is it that they want that they are not getting? you know what they want? they want to be able to control him. they want him to be part of the old machine. >> "the new york times" quoted me as saying nobody controls him. senator sessions, last word. >> well, i think donald trump represents probably the last chance we have to fix -- >> with that we're going to take a break. when we come back, experts tell us the real risks illegal immigration poses to our country. also, donald trump's son don jr. will join us. that and more when "hannity" continues from austin, texas. glad you're with us. >> most of the people we apprehend are individuals that are coming here to find a better way of life, but most of these people have paid somebody to either guide them across, or show them how to get across. literally depends on how much money you have and what you're
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willing to spend. you got, you know, plenty of money, they are going to take you all the way through to the end of the destination. if you
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places like this, when they are under attack, when anything's happening, they can get behind this and it will be more cover for them. >> all right, thafgs more of the video one of my producers shot during his ride along with border patrol in texas over the weekend. joining us now from the senator of immigration studies, jessica vaughn, chris crain, and from the national border patrol council, jeff judd. donald trump stays with us. jessica, what would you like to tell, this is what you study every day, what does he need to
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know if he's president to get this job done and secure the borders of the country? >> first thing, obviously, to enforce the laws. career men and women who work for the department of homeland security and the state department do their job. >> how many people have been murdered over the last ten years from illegal immigrants, do we know? >> we don't know. that's a problem in and of itself. we need to keep track and make sure that criminals are the highest priority and that we're not allowing the release of criminal aliens back into our communities to put people at risk. >> what are the important aspects? you hear his plan about visas, people overstaying them, hear for example no birthright citizenship, correct? >> right. >> that's been a huge problem. what else, if we really want to fix the problem, a to z, how do we do it? >> first of all, sean, starts with interior enforcement. that's the part of the puzzle that's been completely ignored. brandon is the border patrol, we're the interior enforcement
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side of this. the new york police department has 34,000 officers to protect new york. we've got 5,000 officers in 50 states, puerto rico, and the u.s. virgin islands trying to police 13 million illegal aliens, as well as the folks here legally, and 40%, almost half of all illegal immigrants in our country, don't ever cross the border, they don't come in contact with the border patrol. they came in on visas and overstay. we are set up for failure and congress knows it. i'm sorry? >> what happened when some of the hijacks? >> yeah, 19 of them. >> 19, right? okay. what is the -- what are the other aspects, we really want to solve the problem soup to nuts? >> you have to let us do the job. what they are doing is handcuffing border patrol agents, and they are letting illegal aliens dictate to us what our job is. we have to end the catch and release program. you have to get rid of that magic magnet that is bringing
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needs people over here. >> that's what you said -- you're going to get the criminal aliens out. >> by the way, these are incredible people. these are incredible people. they know what to do. they know what to do. >> really what you're saying is, you'll empower them, give them the support they need to fulfill the agenda. >> they want to do the job, they know the job better than anybody. you can do reports, you can hire people to do studies. these people know better than anybody what has to be done. >> will his wall work? is that 30-foot wall, will that do it? >> it's a force multiplier, it will absolutely help us secure the border. one of the things i absolutely appreciate about mr. trump, he came to us, the first conversation i had with him, he asked me what needs to be done. he took our advice and he said that's good advice. i hadn't thought about that before. >> by the way, i don't think obama listens to anybody. >> no, he doesn't. he certainly never listens to us. >> wait, wait, wait, he listens to reverend wright, the church
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of g.d. america. last thing, you talked about the commission to defeat isis and radical islam. will you bring a commission to secure the border and the vetting? >> i think it's a great idea. let's be honest, i don't think you need that much of a commission, because if i round up your top ten people, that's my commission right there. i don't think you need the formality of a commission. i will get a few of the people that know it so well. much better than any commission could ever know it. i'll take a guy like rick perry, who really has done a tremendous job. and maybe put him in charge, but i will tell you that we already know what has to be done. the problem is, we don't do it. we don't do it. >> so true. thank you for being with us. when we come back, donald trump jr. will join us,
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the vast majority of migr t migrants in el paso occur in the waterways. most of the rescues occur in the canal that's right behind us here. these canals run anywhere between 35 to 45 miles an hour during irrigation season. those are the ones that take most of the rescues and deaths. >> all right, that was more of the footage our "hannity" producers took here on the border late this week. joining us now, donald trump jr., the son of the candidate. thank you. so, i'm not even asking you this question, the first time i had him on this show advocating for you, i said to him on air, i think i was the first person to say this, he's going to follow in your footsteps. >> never rule anything out, but it's just been incredible to watch and experience what he's
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been able to do. when you go around the country, you have crowds like this, putting their heart and soul into this campaign. it's a different feeling. doesn't feel like a political event, it's like a rock concert. >> i talked to you -- it's almost like we're having this conversation, your father isn't even here. you once told me, your dad, you look at him as a blue collar billionaire. >> i do. he recognizes and what made him so successful in business, sean, he spent time on job sites, he talked to the guys painting walls, pouring concrete, putting up sheet rock. i said in my convention speech, that allowed him to be a better businessman. he didn't sit in his office and pretend he knew everything by looking at a spreadsheet, he got dirty, got into the mix and it differentiated him from other builders. i think that's why he's able to relate to those people and talk to them. >> all of your brothers and sisters, i know all of you, you're all incredible people in and of your own right, so he had to do something right. >> he did. >> you actually went out of your way to tell me, yes, you had a
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fortunate upbringing, but there's a caveat. he did not give you everything and won't give you everything. >> no, listen, we recognize how lucky -- no, we don't use the plane without him. but we wouldn't want to. we understand the value of a dollar. >> i can't ask him to borrow it? >> maybe you, not me. >> okay. >> he taught us the value of a dollar, the value of hard work, he made us work with the same people i was talking about. i joke, we're the sons of a billionaires that can drive a caterpillar, we did those things. >> i spent ten years in the restaurant business, 12 years old washing dishes, busboy, waiter, bartender, every job in construction for nearly ten years and that is always in the back of my head, so i think that's really important. let me ask you this, you watched the media pound on your father. i can name names, and i could go on for hours. how does that impact you, because i know if it was my son,
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you know, that's got to hurt. >> i think it probably affects us a lot more than it does him. he's sort of impervious, but i know the guy, you know, i know the father. i know the grandfather, you know, i know the way he is with my children. by the way, perhaps more importantly than all of that -- >> real softy at home reading books? >> on his own terms. more importantly than any of that, because we're talking about an election, i see the way he is with his employees, the people he's given jobs, tens of thousands of jobs, and those people are with us for ten, 20, 30 years, and it's not because they have some sort of cush job, it's because they know he's looking out for them, he's ginn them opportunities they wouldn't get elsewhere. the blue collar guys that have become executives, he gave them those opportunities. >> there's a youtube video -- i went to meet you and erica on an unrelated matter and there's a woman who works for you, happens
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to be a black american, african-american woman, and she did this whole video about you. i asked her to come on my show, she's like i'm not going on tv. did you see that video? >> i did, she was terrific, terrific woman. works, actually, with don and er eric, and she is a fantastic woman. i was so proud when i saw her on television. >> would you like to see don jr. go in politics one day? you've seen him on enough tv shows. >> i think it's -- it's a very hard thing to do. i'll be honest. it's so nasty. you say something and they take your words and mince them up and chop them up, they debate what you didn't say for the next three days. it's a very dirty business. honestly, i think i'd prefer he keep doing the great job. >> in north carolina, you did something that made a lot of news, you said, yeah, i regret some of the things that i've said. the problems of the country are far too important to get
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distracted. and that took a lot of people by surprise. >> well, i do. i regret things. in life, you know, everything -- >> you regret lyin' ted? crooked hillary? >> not that much. but, you know, we've had a tremendous campaign. we've had a tremendous success. i started out there was 17, now there's one person left. we're going to make america great again. that's all it is. that's what the whole thing is about. >> would you like your kids to be in the white house with you if you become president? >> well, i think what they would do is probably stay back and run the business. i'll have nothing to do with it whatsoever. i couldn't care less about it. we have such a job to do. >> we have to take a break. when we come back, a.j. delgado is here to explain why she says latinos should vote for donald trump come november. that and more when ♪ i'm going to make this as simple as possible for you.
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welcome back to "hannity." broadcasting live from the acl theater, moody theater in austin, texas. earlier this week a.j. delgado wrote an op-ed to the "washington post" entitled
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entitled why latinos shut vote for trump. good to see you, aj. >> thanks, sean. >> that is a great question. some people say donald trump wants to build a wall and wants little immigration. that is why the hispanic community won't vote for trump. you say not true? >> absolutely not true. i don't support him in spite of being la tina, i support you because i'm latina. yes. yes. more latinos in the house, yes. see? there are millions of us. >> we don't have a lot of time. explain that, though. >> it comes down to two issues. illegal immigration hurts working class latinos and mr. trump has a plan to bring back the jobs we've lost and
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stop outsourcing of jobs. >> aj got mad at me. she graduated from harvard law school. you get embarrassed. i'm like, you should own that. we're rightly proud of her. what would you say to mr. trump now that you have this moment with him to help him with the hispanic vote? the median narrative is he can't get that vote. >> he already has that vote. rather than telling you what can can't do, i just want to say thank you. because you speak about being a voice for the forgotten people. it's an honor to support you as an american, and la tina american, you've given us a voice. thank you. wow. look at this. standing ovation. >> mr. trump, she hit on a very
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important point because of illegal immigration, 95 million americans out of the labor force, the black and hispanic community are hurting most and driving wages down. >> a lot of people in the room, their wages are lower now than 18 years ago and they're working two jobs in many cases largely, in some cases due to obamacare. that should not be. that can't be. >> our final moments with donald trump. aj. good to see you. a lot more
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welcome back, we're broadcasting from acly a movie theater in austin, texas.
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unfortunately, that is all the time we have left this evening. thanks for joining us. we'll be back in new york tomorrow night. thank you. donald trump, ladies and gentlemen. nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn futures." join me tomorrow and i'm back on "mornings with maria" on fox business network. see you then. on the media buzz, donald trump and hillary clinton trade charges of racism, new media scrutiny for the ethical clinton foundation with her team claiming distortion by the press. >> if she were running against a more credible opponent, this would be perhaps be almost death because rather than get to core rups at first, it gets to judgment. >> right. >> what were they thinking, both clintons? >> it shows poor judgment. you knew you were running for president. why did you engage in this? why didn't you disassociate yourself completely? >> how problematic is this for hillary clinton and the optics of it? now, the appearanc


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