tv Fox News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX News September 18, 2016 11:00am-12:01pm PDT
feel free if you have some questions, but the more probing ones i'm going to defer to lieutenant ellery, as she's been heading up the investigation. >> the suspect, has his name been released and did he leave any kind of manifesto on social media? >> the suspect -- easy for me to say, excuse me, the suspect's identity has not been released. we are taking our cues from the medical examiner on that. >> and did he leave behind a manifesto that you're aware of? >> none that i'm aware of. >> can you answer why there were two separate units in one building for the search this morning? >> yeah, we believe there was some connection to both apartments. we don't know if it was familial or domestic, but we know there was some connection to both apartments, so that's the reason for the two warrants. >> can you talk about where this
started in the mall and where it ended in the mall? >> i believe he entered the southeast side by sears and made his way through the mall and i know that lieutenant ellering may be able to give you a better idea of exactly the pathway, but it ended in macy's. >> is there video of what happened? >> there is. >> of the entire incident? >> i don't know if there's video -- step up. >> we're working on piecemealing a lot of that together right now. there is no core video in the actual mall itself, but a lot of the independent stores have their own video surveillance systems, so right now we're working, we have investigators out there right now working with store management to figure out what stores have video, which way it points, what angles we can get and all the different mechanisms to get those downloaded and that's what we're working on right now to get those pieced together. macy's does have video inside, so the incident encounter with
the offduty officer is on video. we believe other portions of the incident, starting from the one side of the mall and going to the other will be bits and pieces will have video. >> the search of the two separate units, do you believe there was anybody else involved or plotting or just -- >> again, at this point, we are working in conjunction with our federal partners, with the fbi, to determine those kinds of things. let me add, as well, before i forget, st. cloud is a very resilient community. st. cloud is filled with hard working, right thinking, decent people, and we're going to be stronger because of this. you know, it doesn't matter where this happened. it's not happening anywhere, it's happening everywhere. yesterday was just a horrible day, not only for st. cloud, but for the state of minnesota, and for our entire nation. so i wanted to be clear about that, but i also want our
citizens to know that we're here and we will remain steadfast in service of them and in protection of them. >> do you have the spelling of the officer's name that fired the shots? >> lieutenant? jason faulkner f-a-l-c-o-n-e-r. jason falconer. f-a-l-c-o-n-e-r. >> was he there shopping? >> from what we understand, he was in the right place at the right time. he was off duty. not there as a police officer. again, truly, if not for his actions, things would have been worse. had an opportunity to speak to him about a half an hour ago. he, clearly, prevented additional injuries and potentially loss of life through his heroic action. >> can you describe what you see in that video?
>> in that video, what i've seen in that video is the suspect is entering, carrying a knife into macy's and that's where the video i had an opportunity to see last night. clearly, he has a knife in hand. you can certainly see the officer, officer falconer, when he came in, clearly, and from what witnesses say, you can't hear from the audio on the video, but he identified as a police officer and asked him -- you can actually see him going down by command, and then immediately lunging towards the officer. and this is something as somebody, you know, i'm a layperson to law enforcement, but in witnessing what may have been 20 feet beyond, covered in less than two seconds with the knife. so you saw him lunge at the police officer. the officer then fired a round,
a few rounds, you see him fall, and then you see him get back up. again, fired upon, you see him fall, you see him get back up. three times. and then even after that, to the point where he's still attempting to get back up again, then the officer, fatal blow. then you also see our officers, st. cloud p.d., entering the scene at that moment. >> can you describe the knife, was it a large knife, a small knife, definitely a knife? >> definitely a knife. >> kitchen knife? >> i would, from my vantage point, certainly something that would be more of a kitchen type knife. certainly the type of knife that created injuries on nine individuals, but didn't really matter what the size of it, it was dangerous and caused significant amount of injury to a lot of people. >> how much difference was it, ballpark on the distance, did he get close enough to this
person -- >> i'm watching a video, so what i see is looks like 20 feet from the first lunge and each one getting closer, even to the point where close enough that the officer actually was almost to the point of falling backwards, he was that close, if not -- there's clearly, clearly the officer's life was clearly in danger and he -- to me, in watching it, it looks like a training video for law enforcement, what law enforcement should do. clearly, he made a decision and if not for him being there, clearly, this would have been much worse than it was. >> officer falconer, he has a background in teaching tactical -- >> my understanding he does. >> couple more questions, folks, then at the conclusion of this briefing, we will continue to disseminate information the old-fashioned way via our media releases, and so if there's a need for us to convene you again, we will give you ample time to get here.
>> was the officer injured in any way? >> not to my knowledge. >> carrying a bag that contained inside or was he carrying it inside the mall? >> the video shows exactly what the mayor said. he's wielding a knife, and he closed the distance on that officer in the blink of an eye. >> can you talk at all about the suspect, how long he may have been living in our community or have you had contact with him in the past, was he on your radar at all? >> we have had minor contact -- i believe we have three in-house contacts with this individual, nothing more serious than traffic violations thus far. how long this individual has lived in st. cloud, i don't know that yet. >> anything with the fbi, any watch lists or anything he's ever been on? >> i would defer that to the fbi. >> so, at this early stage in
the investigation, i'm not going to comment on that. you know, part of our process, again, is searching, you know, the entire repository of databases on what we know about somebody, to include immigration records if they are applicable, to include, as you mentioned, terrorism watch records, our own internal databases, so that's an ongoing process that takes time -- >> you have been listening live to authorities in st. cloud, minnesota, talk about a stabbing at a mall last night. there were nine victims, three still in the hospital. it was ended by an offduty part-time police officer, used to be a police chief himself, jason falconer, and that the suspect got up three different times after he'd been shot and former officer, i guess part-time officer still, jason falconer, was the one who put it to a stop. he's being called a hero. >> the video they say almost looks like what you believe out of police training. the fbi saying they are investigating this as a potential act of terrorism. saying they don't have enough information on the suspect,
although there are confirmed reports of him talking about allah as he went on the stabbing rampage and also, of course, during the stabbing rampage asking people if they were muslim. isis now saying it seems as though everyone but the fbi might know what his motivation is. >> they are saying they are not releasing his name or identifying factors, maybe suggesting they are waiting to notify next of kin. we'll see. a lot of details there, still more to come. for now -- >> for now, we'll be back at the top of the hour, more analysis on st. cloud, minnesota, also new york, and new information coming out of the devices, explosive devices, coming out of new jersey. >> see you then. in new york, to express concern, and then we communicated over the course of a few hours and i learned right away when i reached out to her and that was when i learned about her. >> why didn't, if i may, why didn't she just say it, because this gets to the question of transparency and i want to put up a new fox poll, people were
asked whether the candidates are trustworthy. neither of those is good, but by a substantial margin, senator, the american people seem to think that trump is more honest than clinton. >> well, you know, i would challenge that. >> that's the poll, those are the numbers. >> right, right, but he said he'd release tax returns and he's not doing it. again, i was plain about the press with it right away. >> but she wasn't. >> i did say what she said, which was i was not going to get into the content of the conversations. obviously, that content is important for running mates to be able to share without being public about it. but the timing was clear. >> that brings us to the state
of the race which, frankly, keeps tightening, senator, in the latest real clear politics nationally, clinton leads by 1.5 points, down from eight points in august. in ohio trump is up one point. less than a month ago he trailed by five and in florida he trails by less than a point. in late august clinton led by 4 1/2. senator, your lead is gone. >> you know my state, this is like every race i've ever been in. we went into the first two conventions basically tied. we came out of the second with a good lead and it's tightened up over time, just as i thought it would, just as i actually told secretary clinton when i encouraged her to run in april of 2014. briefly, we're running out of town. if trump is a bigot, why is it
trump can't keep a lead against him? >> we're a very divided nation, chris, politically divided, and what we're trying to do over the course of the end of the campaign is just compare visions. donald trump also put out a book when he decided to run and he called it "crippled america." i don't recognize "crippled america" in the optimistic can do, upbeat spirit of the american people, but, obviously, we've got a real case to make between now and november 8th that our vision of stronger together is the vision that americans should embrace going forward and we have confidence that we will. >> senator kaine, thank you. safe travels on the campaign trail. thanks for talking with us and thank you for bringing some props along, as well. >> you bet, chris, good to be with you. >> joining me now, governor chris christie, the head of donald trump's white house transition team. governor, i want to start with the breaking news about the explosions in new jersey.
what's the latest on the investigation and do you believe, have any reason to believe, that the explosion was an act of terror targeting the marine charity race? >> chris, first after, as far as new jersey is concerned, nobody was injured, the race had not yet started when the bomb exploded, so we're very, very grateful for that. the fbi is leading the investigation in new jersey. we have very promising leads, but we have no one in custody at this time. as far as terrorism is concerned, chris, it is clearly an act of terrorism. we just don't know who's responsible for it, domestic source, foreign source, we don't know that at this time, but it was done intentionally to try to terrorize the people of new jersey, so that e with know, but we need to know who's responsible now and get them
into custody. >> i want to turn to politics and i want to begin with donald trump's comments where trump suggested that the secret service detail around hillary clinton should disarm and, quote, let's see what happens. you just heard senator kaine say trump was inciting an act of violence against hillary clinton. your reaction, sir. >> i'll tell you something, when a race gets tight, even a guy like tim kaine gets desperate. to imply, didn't imply, he said it was to incite violence is outrageous and he owes donald trump an apology. donald trump was trying to make a point about hillary clinton wanting one set of rules for herself and one set of rules for the american people. senator kaine should be ashamed of himself for saying donald trump would like to have violence preerpetrated against hillary clinton. it's an outrageous statement and showing how desperate and scared
the clinton campaign is now. this race is at a dead heat. they can't believe it. they are going to get worse news as we move forward because donald is going to continue to do better. >> the fact is, you have a security detail, obviously, hillary clinton has a security detail. you're not average citizens, so to suggest that you might want gun control for the larger population but doesn't necessarily imply to a public figure like yourself, is that really hypocrisy? >> no, what it is, hypocrisy is on hillary clinton and tim kaine's part. they want to remove second amendment rights from the american people. we've seen that over and over again. i think what donald was trying to do is make a point she wants one set of rules for herself and a different set of rules for everybody else. all the american people should have a right to reasonably protect themselves and in most states in the country that's what exists. mrs. clinton wants to change that in a significant way. i think it's an important debate and discussion for the country to have, but for senator kaine
to go as overboard as he did this morning breathlessly accusing donald trump of inciting violence against hillary clinton, it's outrageous, it's beneath him, and he should take a deep breath, get used to the fact this is going to be a very close race and stop all the craziness. >> all right. let's talk about another issue. trump also tried this week to end the birther controversy after earlier in the week refusing to say that he now believes that barack obama was born in the u.s. now, last september when you were running against trump, you tore into him for keeping this issue alive. let's look at what you said then. >> i'd say the president is a christian and he was born in this country. those two things are self evident. donald trump has to decide, as we've seen, and i said this all along, he has to decide how serious a candidate he wants to be and how he handles different problems like this are going to determine that in the eyes of the american people. >> so, how serious a candidate is donald trump when he is still
talking about the birther issue less than two months before the election? >> very serious, because he said clearly and unequivocally this week barack obama was born in the united states period. so the controversy is over. i made my position really clear, chris, on this both in the campaign and before that, actually, that was my belief, and donald's made it clear now that it's his belief, as well. if you think, chris, that anyone in the united states is going to go into the voting booth and either vote for or against donald trump or hillary clinton based on this issue, people that think that are completely out of touch with the problem with the economy and jobs in this country, with the problem of terrorist threats around the world and here those are the issues that are going to decide this race and not something like this. >> respectfully, governor, people, voters decide what's going to decide the race and as you may know, a lot of people are upset at the idea, they would say, that trump was trying to de le jit miez the first
american, african-american president, so that's an issue for them. trump didn't end the controversy, he continued to say that hillary clinton started the birther controversy. question, do you have any evidence that either hillary clinton or any member of her campaign in 2008 ever publicly questioned barack obama's birthplace? >> well, just look at the comments that patty made, chris, and the fact is -- >> wait, wait, wait. if you're going to go there, what she said was that some volunteer in iowa raised the question and was immediately fired. that hardly seems like they were pushing the birther issue. >> chris, you know, the fact of the matter is, that's what happened during the clinton campaign in 2008. if they appropriately fired the person, good for them, but nonetheless, the issue was raised by the clinton campaign. the fact is this, chris, you and i both know there's lots of
things that go on privately and quietly in campaign, there are people whispering in your ear all the time trying to get you to report things they are unwilling yet to say publicly and if you look back at that 2008 race, rather, between hillary clinton and barack obama, it was an incredibly bitter, angry race on both sides, where a lot of things were said both publicly and privately off the record and on background, members of the media, that probably both would like to take back at this point, but the fact of the matter is, that donald trump put this issue away on friday, and you say voters decide, chris, i've run in two elections statewide here in new jersey and ran the republican primary for president and i'm telling you it's my opinion that there is no one in this country who is today undecided about this race who will make their decision in the next month and a half based upon this issue. they are going to make those decisions based on jobs and the economy, the threats of terrorism around the world and at home.
these are the things that are going to make your decisions on, not on this issue. i know you guys all love it, but it's just not going to be one where undecided voters are going to make their decision in my opinion and experience on this. >> governor christie, thank you, thanks for your time today, sir. >> chris, always great to be with you, thanks for having me. >> please come back. up next we'll bring in our sunday group to discuss trump's suggestion that clinton's secret service detail should put away their guns. plus, what would you like to ask the panel about trump's birther comments? we may use your question on the air. ♪ some relationships you stick with. over time, they get even better. that's why more people stick with humana medicare advantage. we work together with you to find the best plan, however your needs might change.
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hillary clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy. i finished it. >> for five years, he has led the birther movement to de le jit miez our black president. >> sharply at odds over who started the birther movement, questioning whether barack obama was born in america. it's time now for our sunday group. gop strategist karl rove. charles lane from "the washington post." lisa lerer who covers politics for the associated press, and monica crowley, editor and columnist for "the washington times." karl, we said at the top of the show trump has been doing well as a more disciplined candidate sticking to his teleprompter, talking more policy issues, and then late this week we got the birther issue opened and closed,
then we got the comment about the clinton security detail should disarm. how do you explain? >> well, he slipped out of the control of his handlers. you're right, he had three great weeks. closed the gap in ohio, took the lead in ohio, took the lead in florida, took the lead in iowa by 4.3 points in a real clear politics average. close in nevada. >> i got it. what happened? >> 244 elect toerl votes and he said things he shouldn't have said. i want to say this about the birther thing. he says on wednesday, i don't know, he should have come out and said of course i've already settled that issue, but also tim kaine shouldn't be saying when you ask a question of if he's a racist, i don't know. both the statement by donald trump on wednesday and tim kaine's statement today on sunday are really, really irresponsible. >> we asked you for questions for the panel and we've got this on twitter from ron powell on
ending the birther issue. "what took him, trump, so long in light of the overwhelming evidence? also who did he send to hawaii to investigate? nobody, he lied." monica, how do you answer ron and same question i asked karl, how smart is it to stray off what did seem to be a winning formula, sticking to policy and his teleprompter? >> the newly imposed discipline on donald trump was really paying off, as we can see in the tightening polls. donald trump, a big part of his appeal is that he talks like a guy from queens because he's a guy from queens. that kind of authenticity got him the republican nomination for president, but because he speaks off the cuff and because he speaks colloquially, it gets him in trouble. his mind moves fast, he takes verbal shortcuts and gets himself into some political trouble. i think this is an overreaction, the gun comments and birther
stuff, this is an overreaction, but donald trump should know by now mrs. clinton, her campaign, and wingmen in the press are going to take everything he says that is off script and twist it to serve their story line that he is somehow a bigot or unfit for the presidency. that's why everything he says for the next 50 days ought to be weighed and measured extremely carefully. i know that's tough for donald trump, but if he wants to stay on course and win the ultimate job, that's what he needs to do. >> lisa, let's take a look at the big picture, because despite these issues, whether we're overreacting or not to them, the big picture is trump has significantly tightened this race. we went through the polls before, he's tightened it, just barely behind nationwide, he's leading in several key swing states. how do they explain it at clinton headquarters in brooklyn and how worried are they? >> they say they had a bad week, her comment of basket of deplorables was not good for
her, the whole situation with her, video showing her staggering and possibly falling and the pneumonia diagnosis was bad for secretary clinton, but i think folks at the clinton campaign feel confident in their organization, they think they have a ground game he does not. they feel confident, they are putting a lot of emphasis on the first debate. her schedules on the past couple weeks has been light in terms of campaign events, he's doing a lot of time spending doing debate prep, they see that as a really important moment, but certainly folks in the democratic party are awful hi nervous and their argument is this is not a traditional year and donald trump is not a traditional candidate and perhaps the traditional rules of a ground game don't apply and that's making a lot of democrats nervous. >> i'm going to pick on that with you, chuck, the polls tighten when we have a better ground game in ohio and talking about surrogates that are going out for them to help with pl millennials. that's not a strong argument for a candidacy seven weeks out.
>> no, in fact, it only calls attention to what an unorthodox, unpredictable year this turns out to be, because on paper by all the conventional measures of what is a successful campaign, she has a huge advantage. she has the o, she's got the money, but as we're seeing, she's outspending, say, for example, in florida, that was reported just today, outspending by millions and millions of dollars on tv and he's still right there, tied or has a slight lead in florida, so what they need to reckon can is all this sort of application of resources that would have bought you success in the past may not work this year, at least in certain swing states like ohio and florida, where they have usually paid off in the past, but where it seems to be a sort of grassroots enthusiasm for trump that will support itself, so to speak. >> less than a minute for this segment. how do you see the race overall
at this point? >> very close. he's got a narrative that's driving this, which is he's changed. her narrative is, i'm qualified, experienced, my temperament and background to do the job and he's not, which unfortunately paints her as more of the same, more status quo. this is going to be a close election. he now leads in states with 244 electoral votes, that's 265, get him from 265 to 270 is going to be awful hard to do. >> i love the fact we're now talking about those five electoral votes and we're seven weeks out, but that's what we do. we have to take a break here. when we come back, former secretary of state colin powell's hacked e-mails showing him saying tough things about both clinton and trump. who will it hurt more? plus, one week before the first debate, what do the two candidates need to do, and what's the game plan need to be going into the big face-off? let me know on facebook or twitter and use the #fns.
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as the world knows, i was under the weather recently, the good news is, i got people focused on women's health. >> why not share your records? >> i have it right here, should i do it? i don't care. >> well, both candidates trying to play concerns over how candid they've been about their health to their advantage this week, and we're back now with the panel. monica, how do you see, i'm calling it health recordgate playing out. clearly, clinton took hits for not being forthcoming at the very start about her pneumonia, but when you look at the historical record about what candidates overcome, mccain turned over 1,000 pages of medical history, neither of these are being very transparent in what they are releasing. >> well, the only thing more
grueling and stressful in running for president is being president, so voters are perfectly entitled to know how healthy or not the presidential candidates are. the challenge for mrs. clinton is she is known by about 70% of american voters to be serially dishonest, and when you have that kind of reputation, voters don't believe you on anything, so there is a huge amount of skepticism. as to whether or not we're getting the truth, whole truth, and nothing but the truth about her current health. the concerns are threefold, number one, are we getting everything or is there something more serious wrong with her and do we have a right to know that. secondly, all the statements from her doctors are current statements about allergies and so on. voters are concerned about her past, the concussion, the anticoagulant treatment and so on. i think demanding a full neurological work up and report is not unreasonable given her health, and finally people are worried about the woodrow wilson
incident, whether she's elected and incapacitated in some way -- >> wow, you're really running with this one. >> those concerns are really out there. >> we should point out donald trump is only giving his current health report, as well, and he's not going back over his history, even though there's nothing we know about prior incidents. i want to move on to the fascinating hacked e-mails of former secretary of state colin powell, who is none too complimentary about either side. he called trump a national disgrace and international pariah, but here's what he says about clinton, "a 70-year-old person with a long track record, unbridled ambition, greedy, not transformational with a husband still blanking bimbos at home according to "the new york post." in terms of anybody who cares about the e-mails, who takes a bigger hit there? >> well, it was kind of a tie, i would say, but i think colin
powell takes a little bit of a hit in the following sense, he reveals himself to be the sort of person who simultaneously calls hillary a friend in one breath and then unloads on her with that rhetoric in another, and the main thing he had against her was she beat him out for a lucrative speaking gig at a university somewhere along the line. this was, in addition to what it showed about his views of the candidate, for a lot of people out there in america, was a window on the washington establishment, how they chat amongst themselves and what really concerns them, and it was a picture of a rather petty and gossipy washington establishment. >> let's turn to the first debate, which starts, which happens a week from tomorrow. you cover the clinton campaign, give us whatever sense you can at how they are preparing. do we know, i know this is a statement secret who is portraying donald trump in the mock debate and what's their strategy and sense of the
importance? >> that is what everybody wants to know, of course, it is being tightly held. >> let me ask, why is this. >> it's a good question. i think they just don't want to give any window into how they are preparing. who's playing donald trump would reflect how they see donald trump potentially behaving in these debates and that's really the wild card here. she's doing a lot of preparing and, frankly, hillary clinton tends to do well in forums like this where you can prepare, where the situation is controlled. i think it's worth noting she's probably more experienced doing presidential debates than just about anyone else in the country, she did them in 2008, she did them again in this primary, so this is a forum they expect she can do well, the wild card here, of course, is donald trump. they simply don't know which donald trump is going to show up, the one who's reading from the teleprompters and following advice of his aides, or the one going off message, so i think she's preparing for both possibilities. >> karl, as the one person at the table that's helped someone
prepare for a presidential debate and done it several times, what should they be focusing on one week out? >> well, actually, two things. one is, what is the impression that the american people have of the candidate, good or bad, and second, how can they further the better aspects of that in the debate by their performance. these debates don't tend to drive the race in entirely different direction, at least not unless we have a train wreck, they tend to confirm things people know about candidates, good or bad. so try and find good points and emphasize those good points. >> if you were in the corner, what would you say to hillary clinton and what would you say to donald trump? >> i'd say to hillary clinton you've been emphasizing a vision for the future of the country, share things in a way that help people walk away saying i can see her in the oval office and she's got a vision. for donald trump, it is similar. stay away from the ad hoc and impromptu. his goal, her job is to persuade. in a time you want change, you want me, stability and
continuity. for him it is, reassurance that i represent change, you all know that, but in a time you're a little concerned about me, i want to come off as the guy who had that news conference in mexico city, or went to detroit and met with people at the black church, and the guy who reads off the teleprompter, not the guy who tells bob costas, i don't know, or says on -- in miami, take away her security details, go ahead and see what happens. >> and what if, and you have to assume at some point the moderator is going to bring up the things, the terrible things they've said about each other. what's the danger to the degree -- they've both said the other one is unfit. >> well, look, again, what's your goal? your goal ought to be, of course we say tough things. that's the way american politics is. >> do you not want to make the contrast at all? >> you want the contrast by being more about you than them. you want to spend more time emphasizing what you're about wlarn what they are about.
>> wow. that sounds like a really biased debate. >> it will be quieter than the ones in the primaries. it will be interesting to see how donald trump performs where there's no audience to egg him on and cheer and roar. >> there's an audience, but i will tell you, they are strictly told quiet. don't say anything and leave it to the millions of american voters to watch and decide. thank you, panel. see you next sunday. up next we'll talk with george clooney about his effort to end atrocities and corruption in the world's newest nation.
the country's leaders and war lords are battling over south sudan's wealth, while millions of its people are caught in the cross fire. george clooney and a human rights activist are leading an effort to stop it. and this week we talked with them. >> the president and the ousted vice president are engaged in massive corruption that leads to violence and starvation and that, i think, is a pretty amazing thing to be able to come forward with. >> two years ago clooney put together an investigative team trying to unravel how south sudan's leaders are looting its wealth. to understand what's going on, you need to know the players. the country's president. >> beautiful houses, hidden
wealth, he should know. his official salary is $60,000 a year, but among the getaways is this elegant villa in an upscale community in nairobi, kenya. >> and the deposed vice president who kir drove from office. >> he's no innocent victim. he's been playing the same dirty game. machar tried to sell off the country's oil to a russian arms dealer in return for deadly weapons. while his family lives in different homes outside south sudan far from the war zone. the two of them have spent the last few years stealing money from their own people, using that money to fund militias to kill one another to try to seize power and with that power be able to procure contracts, military contracts, for instance, oil contracts, that they could then steal more money. the reality is, every time we looked at it, you know, you'll
say this is just ethnic or is this in some way religious or what is the argument here, and the reality is, it is all about corruption and it's all about money. >> they are stealing lots of money, as much as $4 billion. >> most of it's oil revenue, military contracts, that kind of thing. they are stealing the same way that we've seen it over the years and in the same way you'd see a lot of african countries that we've seen before, which is you steal it by saying, okay, well i'm going to offer you military contract and you're going to give me an insane kickback. in some ways you're stealing to hold power and you're holding power to steal. little of both. >> what is it doing to the millions of people in south sudan? >> fairly rich country in a strange way, they have a lot of oil, they have mineral rights, a lot of things, some gold. the people aren't getting any of that money, you know, there's so much of this money going out of the country and not to the people, the people who deserve
it. >> john, you and george have set up this organization called "the sentry," what is it? >> the private sector attempt to follow the money, to build a team of financial forensic investigators, who are burrowing into these systems of corruption, that allow in a number of countries in east and central africa, which is the deadliest war zone in the world, that allow literally billions of dollars to be offshored through banks and real estate and other kinds of companies and all kinds of things in the international financial system. so we took a step back and said where are their vulnerabilities? the vulnerabilities are in their wallets. >> you can't shame them, but you can take their money and that changes everything. >> the international institutions that do follow the money for national security issues, for terrorism and for nuclear proliferation issues and things like that, they get their
hands full right now. the last thing they are going to be doing is chasing assets in east and central africa, so we set up our own team of people who do that kind of work, exofficials from the fbi and treasury and other kinds of entities and put dossiers together and put them over to agencies that can actually take action against them. >> what we're really talking about is, the use of that money and the need to collect that money being in incredible amounts of violence, rape, starvation, the tools of atrocities, and with absolutely no regard for the basic citizenry, just for themselves. >> you met with president obama today. what are you asking him and other world leaders to do? >> we're not going to them and saying surprise, this is something they deal with, you know, every single day, they
have a conversation about it. >> what clooney wants is for the u.s. and other countries to use the same tools in south sudan they use against terrorists and rogue regimes, sanctions freezing the key players out of the international financial system. but you say bottom line war crimes shouldn't pay. >> right. yeah. that's true. our job is to be the advocates, to keep pushing and poking with a stick all of the parties that we feel. that's the u.n., that's the justice department, that's the treasury department, that's the executive branch. our job is to poke with a stick everybody we can knowing it's a long, slow process, but it is a process we believe we can succeed with. >> the last time i talked with the two of you, you were pushing for independence for south sudan from sudan.
what went wrong? >> this is not a failed state, but it can be. our job is to continue to bring the focus, but the promise that was what we thought in 2011, came always with a caveat saying that there's a possibility for this never to work. the thing that wasn't addressed, the missing ingredient in the international response once south sudan get its independence was a serious effort to counter corruption. we've never in africa used the treasury department's tools and the patriot act's tools related to antimoney laundering for issues outside of terrorism in africa. >> this is the part of the interview where i ask why should our viewers care, is there some larger geopolitical issue here, or is it as simple as these people need help? >> the reality is, why everyone should care at home is this, a failed state opens a vacuum and
inside a vacuum we have seen what these influences can be. and those influences can absolutely come home to roost for us as we know, as we've seen. the reason to do this is we're not talking about spending a lot of money. what we're saying is, let's stay on this because what we cannot let happen is this. >> i figured you were going to. >> you've raised millions of dollars for hillary clinton, you have no use for donald trump, i want to ask you a bigger question. what do you make of our politics
today? >> that's a good question. it's frustrating. i grew up as a democrat in kentucky in the '70s, so, you know, i grew up, i was a grew up in a place -- i was a minority, you know in that world. didn't move to hollywood and become a democrat. but it wasn't as contentious. the idea that that once one party got power, that nothing was going to happen from the other side, that we're going to stop things cold. i worry about that. i think that's dangerous. it's a funny thing, odd for me to be on the same side of an issue as bill crystal and george will and people like that. usually we're not on the same side. i feel as though we need to get away from the divisiveness we're stuck in right now and the fear that we're playing off of.
we cannot be driven by fear into an age of unreason if we look deep in our history and remember we are not the descendants of fearful people. i think that's an important part of us and that's important to remember as we go forward. >> john, george, thank you. pleasure. >> thank you, you too. >> up next, our power player of the week, a look at the smithsonian's newest museum, filling a huge gap in a story of america. if you have a typical airline credit card, you only earn double miles when you buy stuff from that airline. wait...is this where you typically shop? you should be getting double miles on every purchase! switch...to the capital one venture card. with venture, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, everywhere, every day. not just ...(dismissively) airline purchases. seriously... double miles... everywhere. what's in your wallet?
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very emotional. >> lonnie bunch is director of the new museum. when the doors open next weekend, people will be stunned by its historical sweep and emotional power. it takes you back in time to when the first slaves were brought to this country and then shows how an o pressed people endured and thrived. >> what do you hope people take away from this museum? >> the story of the civil rights movement is not a story simply of african-americans struggling for freedom but expanding the notions of freedom for all americans. >> there's a slave cabin from south carolina where a dozen blacks were crammed in together. and one of the few relics from the 1921 tulsa race riot where white destroyed what was then the black wall street. >> a family whose house was burned went back in and the only thing they could recover were four charred pennies. the family kept those pennies for generations, tells a lot how important that memory was.
>> bunch hopes the museum gives people a sense of tension between times of tragedy and triumph. he showed us a segregated railroad car. >> you see the white community, then you go through a swinging door that says colored and be in the back where the african-americans would be. >> but then he took us upstairs to an exhibit called game changers. >> you have someone like muhammad ali and say, here's his athletic career but here's what he meant beyond that. >> i've got to stop. jackie robinson's jersey. jackie robinson's bat. >> to be honest, that's the best part of my job, i get to hold jackie robinson's jersey. >> we met bunch in 2012 when he had been leading this project for seven years. >> at 8:00 in the morning, i have the best job in america and at 2:00 in the morning, it's the dumbest thing i've ever done. >> now it's a reality. the exterior is bronze iron work. echoing what slaves created in
charleston and new orleans in a city of white stone, it makes a statement. >> what we wanted to do not to create something a black museum but basically hint at the notion that there has been this dark presence that we need to always now consider and understand. >> the museum opens as the conversation about race is charred, with talks of black lives matter, bunch hopes this will be a healing place. >> it's not concrete and glass, not even the artifacts. it's really the souls of so many people whose stories we're trying to tell whose lives weren't considered the stuff of history but we want to make that happen. if we do this right, america will have a chance to understand itself in newer and fuller and maybe more complex ways. >> tickets are free to the museum but demand is so high, all passes are gone through october. if you want to see the exhibition and trust me, you do,
tickets from november on are available online through the museum's website. that's it for today. have a great week and we'll see you next "fox news sunday." new york city still on high alert after as a bomb squad is working to dismantle the unexploded pressure cook found four blocks from the scene of last night's explosion. heavy weapons teams will step up security across the city in the wake of last night's attack. thanks so much for spending your sunday afternoon with us. >> a lot going on whether it be in new york or new york or minnesota. welcome to america's election headquarters from washington. already there's a debate between the mayor and governor of new york, whether these bombings are indeed terrorism. brian did incredible work on the