tv The Kelly File FOX News September 20, 2016 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT
down here in washington, i'm bret baier in for bill o'reilly who will be back tomorrow. 6:00 p.m. eastern for special report tomorrow. as bill says, i this is a fox news alert. a shooting victim got out of his car, however he was not the man they were looking for. scott's family says he was unarmed. the officer that pulled the trigger has been put on
administrative leave and the crowd that protested the shooting quickly grew. it started with 40 people, local media say there are hundreds of people out there protesting. all of this comes on the heels of another shooting involving a white police officer and unarmed black man. we do not know the race of the police officer involved in this one. the one we're talking about there in tulsa happened last friday. governor mary fallin sr urging residents to remain calm as authorities investigate that incident n a series of tweets, fallin described the video of the shooting as quote, troubling and says her thoughts and prayers are with the family. the shooting, right now, wjzy, at the scene, live on the zone. bill, what can you tell us about this protest? are this police officers injured? any injuries?
>> it's been a hectic night. so far, police confirmed to us that several officers have been injured. crews pulling up bottles and rocks, they're tweeting out several officers have been injured. we know one of two of them have been have been hospitalized. and this has gotten worse throughout the night. and a few duz yn protestors, really mellow. people had their dogs out there, little kids, people were yelling at cops but nothing crazy. pushing and and say within an hour or so, 30 to 40 people turned to over 100.
and these guys came in with riot gear and and they decided to get in line in the middle of the road. and s.w.a.t. officers, i should say riot officers were just standing there. protestors were screaming in their faces and within the next 20 minutes the cops decided they were outnumbered. i would say about 30 or 40 in the road and hundreds started to going. and we started going live for 10:00 show, the riot police decided to owe back up and break their line. they started walking down the there was a pack mentality. everybody started running up the street, trying to get around the officers. people started launching water
bottles. and many officers were able to use shields but some got hit. and again, several officers have been injured. as this protest kept moving down the street, we kept having to back up. it got out of control, and the protesters were starting to swarm around the officers so we had to call out a bus to drive into the middle of the protest and pick officers up and evacuate them. eight to 10 officers got on the bus. protestors started to chuck bottles against the windows. they were throwing at them point blank and some of the media started backing off. one colleague was hit by a rock. several officers were injured and probably about, i'd say, about 11:00 tonight, maybe just before, is when we started
seeing police changing up their tactics. we heard explosions. i don't know if they were flash bangs or not. we saw a buchl of tear gas going up. this were crowds unning up and down the street. >> we can see here live images from wbtv. you can see what appears to be tear gas in the crowds. you can see the riot police throwing that into to protestors and some not seeming to phased about that. bill, thank you for being with us. stay safe out there as you monitor the protest. >> thank you. >> joining us now, former washington, d.c. homicide detective rod wheeler, good evening. here we go, again, rod we're seeing this -- >> that's right. >> we're seeing this more often than we'd like to. what do you make of this? >> this scene is becoming too common in the united states.
so viewers know what we're looking at, they're trying to push them into more of a park area, that way, they can keep protestors contained. they're releasing what april years to be tear gas and a t 4 gas. one tactic in law enforcement if we can get the crowd dispersed into smaller groups they're easier to control. the problem that you have with these protests is that you have such large crowds, and it catches police off guard. i think what happened here in charlotte tonight may have caught the cops off guard, it looks like now we're beginning to see more reenforcements come in to try to contain the crowd better. >> with police shootings and riots we're seeing, one thing
that i am noticing more and more, you can see tear gas out there in the crowd. and we're seeing a lot of surveillance cameras on police officers. i imagine that will tep what happens when the man was shot and a lot of scenarios we've been seeing that footage has been crucial. >> absolutely. that is critical and a good observation. we're seeing citizens carrying more cameras as well. and sometimes, maying video and this shooting is under investigation. the police chief did make a statement about an hour ago. and he gave details as to what happened. the police were executing an arrest warrant and the guy
jumped out of the car. chief said the guy had a gun. now, the chief was very affirmative when making that statement. so when looking at these situations, when i go to cities like ferguson, like i was in, this seems to be to be getting worse in this country more than it is getting better. >> rod wheeler, giving us his take on what's happening here in north carolina. a large crowd is protesting the police shooting of a black man. police say the man was armed but his family said he was just
waiting for his son to get out of school. they say he had a book in his hand. you're seeing video of protestors rocking police cars and throwing bottles and rocks. stay with fox news channel for more on the developing story. now back to "the kelly file", already in progress. details ho father's suv before the attack. he's facing six fed call accounts in new jersey. rahami did not cooperate with the investigators but that could have been in part because he had just before sought. more than 100 investigators in new jersey alone are working to document his travel overseas and his movements at home, who he talked to, where he shopped, where he might have built the bombance whether or not he had any help along the way. >> thank you. turning now to pete huck stra, former chairman of the house intelligence committee and senior fellow at the project on terrorism. your thoughts on whether this guy is likely linked to others who may have helped him in this
regard. >> well it's unclear as to whether he was linked to others here in the united states. i think one of the real things we got to be taking a look at, who he was linking to in pakistan and in afghanistan. and to do that we need strong relationships with the intelligence communities in those two countries. because they're the ones that are going to have the eyes and ears into the taliban and into al qaeda and isis. and they're the ones that, you know, can give us a tip that says, hey, we're hearing from our sources, there's an american you know who is learning bomb making skills. >> hello. >> he's been there for two weeks and he's heading back to the united states in march. that's the kind of information -- >> and then he comes back and it's not like he wasn't -- e you know, he was questioned by customs and border patrol when he came back over. he had been over there for a year at one point. and yet there's no screening. we've seen some of the screening. are you a terrorist?
that's helpful. you can understand americans' frustration where they're like the guy was in kwet that repeatedly, becoming devout, he was angry, talking about hating american culture, his dad said he was a terrorist. i get that he recanted but that doesn't happen to the average person. they're saying we love our fbi but we have to hold them to higher standards. >> what we do know is that in the last number of years the fbi and other law enforcement agencies, they've kind of become politically correct. organizations that used to go in and train the fbi and other local law enforcement about the things to look for when you are trying to determine whether someone may have radical jihadist tendencies, that training in many cases has been eliminated because it was politically incorrect and uncomfortable and we don't want to be perceived as targeting muslims or you know folks from
the middle east or pakistan or afghanistan. this training has been purged from the fbi. >> uh-huh. so you've got a combination of you and general hayden, he was running the nsa program, where they're allowed to listen in only on a phone call between an american and a suspected terrorist. it's not just any american. >> correct. >> and nine times out of ten they weren't listening to anybody. they were basically collecting so-called metadata. any way that program he's suggesting something like it, some sort of something that would allow us to get in their business would be helpful and you're saying we're disarounded in the fight to a large extent. where does that leave us? i understand we've got donald trump and hillary clinton. but do you actually see a difference in the country's safety depending on what happens here on november 8th? >> absolutely. i mean, you know, domestically we're disarmed. we should rearm. internationally, take a look at what our intelligence capability
in places like libya and in egypt, six years ago these two countries were a rich source of intelligence you know throughout northern africa and into the middle east. egypt and libya had fantastic intelligence organization. when america partnered with radical jihadists to overthrew gaza fi, we lost those networks. we're blind in northern africa. in the past who have partnered with us on intelligence capabilities are much more hesitant to partner with us. we're disarounded domestically and gone blind international in some key locations. we're also getting breaking news on am mad rahami's wife,
how she left the country weeks before the attack and how u.s. investigators caught up with her overseas. plus, some of the biggest names in political forecasting are changing their election maps in favor of donald trump. larry sabato is one of them. it took six hours to go from shocking to very ugly in the much publicized split between brad pitt and ainge lena jolie. we'll show you how each side is reacting what they're now saying as the other woman who now joins what's become a national news story. what does that say? >> people are shocked, social media is abuzz. people on the internet is going crazy. this is the h
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breaking new details tonight on the tangle family web of terror suspect of ahmad rahami and how much they may have known about his alleged plot. rahami's wife apparently left the country just a couple of months before the bombings. his mother left just in the last couple of weeks. and the fact that both of them
were out of the country at the time of the attacks has some folks thinking that may have been more than just a coincidence. trace gallagher live in our west coast newsroom with more. >> megyn, the time line here is key because initially authorities say that ahmad rahami's wife left the country just a few days before the bombings, but she left in and was on her way back to america when she was stopped by fbi agents where she is being questioned. their marriage is an important piece of the puzzle because the two met in pakistan during one of rahami's several trips to the region, including trips along the afghan-pakistan border. not only was ahmad rahami's wife out of the country during the bombing, so was his mother. she left the u.s. for turkey on august 24th. it's unclear exactly why. rahami's other family members are also being looked at,
including a brother who once posted a jihadi message on facebook. but recent history tells us the wives may play the biggest roles in these types of terror investigations. remember during the san bernardino attack, tashfeen was clearly committed to her husband's cause. a year before the boston marathon bombings, katherine russell, the wife of killer tam lynn tsarnaev did an internet search asking what the rewards are if your husband becomes a martyr. russell has never been charged. and in the orlando massacre, the wife of mass killer omar mateen once drove her husband to the pulse nightclub to check it out. on the night of the shooting she feared he was going to attack the gay nightclub and pleaded with him not to do anything violent. >> trace, thanks. joining me now with more, a former islamic extremist working
as an anti-terror crusader. the connection to the wife and her history and her departure from the u.s., just what do you think? >> as we just heard, it's not something unusual. what we need to be aware of is that with the process of radicalization, i think it's almost impossible for close family members, especially spouses to not notice anything, and in most cases that are aware and in some cases sympathize with their ratified spouse. and all of the indications here point to awashness at least. >> what do you make of the discussion we had in the last block about this guy traveling to pakistan, to quetta, coming back, didn't get on anybody's radar, called a terrorist by his father, no problem apparently for the fbi. >> the city of quetta isn't a city you go visit in pakistan. it would be incredibly strange for me to visit quetta. i have visited quetta but vi visited quetta to speak with
hundreds of youth in the universities to warn them against joining extremists groups. afghans aren't originally from quetta. it would be strange for him to have family in quetta. but secondly it's a conflict zone. it's like the arch american getting up and going to see belfast at the height of the tribbles. it's a war zone. there's currently a civil war going on in quetta. that in itself should have raised alarm bells for american authorities. >> we've been talking in the last couple of days whether we're turning into israel and we can expect more attacks and this is the new reality. what do you think? >> i'm clearly from europe, from london. we've had a summer of madness and terrorism there. i think that the extremists have been planning to delay their attacks in america until it's closer to the u.s. elections. isis on their chat forums, i'm not saying this chat was with isis, wu on their chat forums they've been suggesting that they would seek the influence the u.s. elections.
i think they would favor a donald trump win because it makes it easy are for them to radicalize others against america. >> why, because he talks tough on terror? >> i'm weary of saying that. at the end of the day isis doesn't want us to breathe but we have to breathe. it's important to be aware that extremists are able to point to a head of state that they can clearly identified being antagonistic to them which helps their narrative that they want to pose the west at being at war. >> we've been strg this debate about whether president obama, who is, you know, of the same mind-set. he doesn't want to do anything to sort of play into that narrative that we're at war with the muslims of the world. about whether he needs to call the enemy what it is, you know, the war against radical islam. where do you stand on it? >> well we have to absolutely call it by what it is. there are major reasons for that. first of all, if we don't
identify it by its name, it makes it difficult, makes it harder to isolate it from mainstream islam and the average muslim. one of the benefits of giving something a name is to differentiate it. ironically the very thing that president obama fear wills come about if we're unable to name islamic extremism. >> if you're advising the fbi in this case, given the pattern we're seeing, the profile of these domestic terrorists, i mean, they're terrorists but they're american citizens, naturalized citizens with, what do they need to be doing differently? >> i think behavioral and psychological profiling is what we need to look at. as we just saw with your short film before, katherine russell seemed to be aware of her husband's desire to die as a martyr. but behavioral and psychological profiling is really important. if we were doing that correctly,
then i re-emphasize that it's odd for the tsarnaev brother to visit certain regions in asia the way they did and it's odd for ra ham pi to visit quetta. that's not normal behavior. >> that should put you on the fbi's radar. >> a naturalized citizen who isn't of the ethnicity that belong to the quetta region, we know that rahami was afghan. no one gets up and lives in quetta for a year. it's a conflict zone. >> i have yet to hear anybody say the fbi needs for more resources. we just keep getting told it's hard, really hard but we're doing a great job which is becoming less and less believable. thank you so much. with both presidential candidates talking to voters about the terror threat in america, president obama made a big announcement regarding his role in the clinton campaign
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. it is now 49 days to the election. 49. was i only saying that yesterday? i can't keep up. less than a week to what could become one of the most watched presidential debates in history. i think it's going to be number one np in about 72 hours since terror attacks rocked new york city and new jersey. against that backdrop president obama today went to the united nations just blocks away from where 31 people were wounded calling for the world to take in more refugees. then suggesting that critics have a plan, critics like donald trump are actually helping the terrorists. >> if we were to turn refugees away for their background or religion or perhaps because they are muslim we would be reinforcing terror propaganda. this crisis is a test of our common humanity, whether we give
in to suspicion and fear and build walls or whether we see ourselves in another. to slam the door in the face of these families would detray our deepest values. >> not only did the president use the united nations for what sounded an awful lot like a campaign speech, news dropped because of a campaign blitz by mr. obama with the president reportedly prepared to devote one or two day as week to getting her elected until november 8th. marc thiessen, and roland martin, great to see you both. let's talk about the refugee situation. this is becoming bigger and bigger and the immigration policies of the two candidates. the president today coming out saying we need more, we need more come into the country and hillary clinton saying, okay, they'll be sugg t subjected to tough vetting.
this is how she put it. >> i am absolutely in favor of and have long been an advocate for tough vetting for making sure that we don't let people into that country. and not just people who come here to settle, but we need a better visa system. >> your thoughts on that. >> she was in charge of the visa system. he was secretary of state for the first three years of the obama administration. why didn't she give aus better visa system when he was in charge of the department that was in charge of issuing visas. this is the problem. hillary clinton want to run away with barack obama and wants to tie herself at the hip with him. they're going to be come paining together twice a week up until election day. she wants his support but she also is going to be tied to his record. what is his record? his record is -- we just found out that the department of homeland security inspector general found out that over 1800 people who were supposed to be deported because they posed a national security risk were given u.s. citizenship instead.
>> that's insane. >> they confused the deportation order with a passport application. this is our vetting system right now. hillary clinton looks at that and says, let's increase the number of syrian refugees by 500%. she's not doubling down on obama's policies. this is not going to do her well in the election. >> that number hasn't gotten a lot of coverage. but it's true, at least 18 11 immigrants who were supposed to be deported because they posed national security threats instead were given citizenship. >> when you have a country -- like when you had members of congress who were on the no-fly list, it's no shock that we are bureaucratic screw ups. >> that's a big one. >> it is a big one. and any point is that is why you are also to fix those things. >> but you see the political matter, why it puts her in a difficult position to say let's quinn up the l the number of refugees coming in. >> first of all, as americans,
it's a little difficult for us to ask others around the world to do something we're unwilling to do. we made the point about her being over the visa program. she was working for a president. marc, you worked for a president. you couldn't do something on your own without that being the approval of the united states. >> i'm not a secretary of state. >> i understand that you weren't. but the reality is she still had a boss like you had a boss, that is the president of the united states. this year i don't believe that somehow the refugee policy is going to be somehow that major in striking her down. there are people who don't like the president, who don't like her already. and so i don't think all of the sudden they're going the say i hate her even more so but i do believe you do have americans out there who understand from a humanitarian perspective where we are as a country. >> what do you make of it, marc? it's extraordinary to see a sitting president devote two days of the workweek to campaigning for someone running for office.
i don't know -- is he going to get a dock in pay? he's not really doing the people's business two out of the five working days. >> well part of his job i guess is preserving his legacy. and he realizes that if donald trump is elected, it's going to be a big blow to his legacy. his legacy depends on hillary clinton getting elected. she understands she's running on his legacy. after an eight-year run in office, this is change or more of the same. she's the more of the same. they did nothing while 500,000 people were massacred in syria and had no safe zone to flee the violence. and so the refugee crisis was created on their watch. now they're coming out saying you're immoral for not making more refugees. >> he's got a 52% approval rating right now. it's been above that in recent days. and the latest polls on terror
show her ahead of donald trump in all but i think one poll. she is outpolling him on who they trust more to handle terror. >> i can guarantee you. if marc's former boss actually had a high approval rating, republicans would not have been running from him in 2008. this is the reality of when you are a strong incumbent. if al gore was not being an idiot and not having former president bill clinton campaign for him, he likely would have won the presidency. all he had to do was win his home state of tennessee or arkansas and he wins the presidency. if you're a political party, you want a popular president. excuse me, marc. i guarantee you when you have an approval rating above 50%, trust me, you want that. and again, if bush -- if bush had comparable numbers in 2008, trust me, republicans would have loved to have the president on the campaign trail. >> i got to leave it there.
>> you got to suck it up there, marc. he's popular. >> great to see you both. at least three well-respected election model this week changed in favor of trump. larry sabato runs one of them, the most respected i'd say and he is next on what is happening here. plus, angelina jolie and brad pitt today called it quits. this is the one story everyone was discussing today and within hours there were ugly accusations from both sides. we'll show you the latest that just broke as we came to air.
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thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? just six days until what could be an historic presidential debate. and this sunday night we'll have a special edition of the kelly file live with a complete preview of what to expect when hillary clinton and donald trump face off for the first time. looking forward to this. then after the debate on monday night, tune in to the life kelly file at 11:00 right after the
debate for the complete wrap up and analysis you won't see anywhere else. here's why we think it's going to be a big deal. in just the last week larry sabato made some major changes to his otherwise unchangeability prediction map moving 12 states, 12 states over further to the right, including two outright flips, ohio and iowa went from leaning democrat to leaning republican. joining me you, larry sabato. so that's huge, 12 states. you haven't moved anything in that map and now it's a whole new ball game. >> and here's why, megyn. we were led by the data to do this. hillary clinton had maintained leads that were either small or large in all of those states really since the summertime. and then we all know it was expanded after the convention.
but she's had a couple of rotten weeks. and either she's fallen back depending on the state or donald trump has gone up or some people think that democrats don't want to respond to the polls. but very clearly the polls had changed. and they changed enough to ohio to lean it to trump, lean it. and iowa just about everybody agrees that is trump's strongest swing state. so we lean that to trump as well. but i think the real story here is florida, north carolina and nevada. in all of those states you either had very contradictory polls or polls that were dead tied. so tossup is the right rating for them. >> a poll put her up 5 points over trump in florida. they're all over the place. one thing we read this week was that the polls taken this week show she's doing better than she was doing last week. and so you tell me, you know, whether that means she's
rebounding, she's steadying the ship or what it means. >> i think probably it's returning to the prior norm, except for one big thing, megyn, that you mentioned in this segment. 100 million people are going to watch this debate on monday night. more than have watched any debate in american history. that's a reset button potentially on what happens and there isn't a soul in the country who knows what's going to happen. >> maybe it will be exciting -- it will be exciting just to watch. but query what the candidates will do under that pressure. they're only human beings. may not want to throw any hard punches because they don't want to upset what is a tight race. any predictions before i let you go? >> i think basically the supporters of both will be strengthened and people main in to debates to cheer for their side. but never ever underestimate the pow are of any candidate to dmit
a terrible gaffe that causes the number to shift. >> it's kind of like watching the ice skating at the olympics. what? that isn't nice. joining us with more, katrina pearson and robert zimmerman. let me start with you on this robert. do you admit she had a terrible two weeks? >> she didn't have a terrible two weeks. >> she didn't? 12 states just got moved further to the right >> let me point out to you that larry sabato pointed out that hillary clinton certainly has the advantage of winning the election over donald trump, more paths to get to 270. >> -- on this program saying is she looking great, trump is in big trouble. because the polling from her collapse and basket full of deplorables hasn't caught up. >> there wasn't a collapse. let's understand, megyn, i don't want to disappoint you, but in fact maybe this will put your
mind at ease, but hillary clinton in today's national poll is up by 5 percentage points. >> let me stop you right there. as you well know it's not about my personal feelings. it's about the facts. >> and the facts are that even if you take the worst projection, you assume that hillary clinton has 16 of the standard blue states for 191 electoral votes, the battleground states in election according to 538.com and others give her a 70% chance of winning those states. >> 538 with all due respect has been schizophrenic with this election. they nailed it with obama. they've been all over the place. one day, the next day completely the reverse. let me get katrina in here. your candidate has had boat loads full of trouble since he launched his campaign. but you tell me whether this has been the best eight, ten-day period of the entire run for him. >> well i think this has been a
fantastic time period for mr. trump. we keep wanting to remind people that hillary clinton has spent tens of millions of dollars in many of these states, and some that larry didn't mention, colorado, michigan, pennsylvania, look at virginia and maine. mr. trump is doing extremely well. many 0 the models have shifted. >> what does that mean for his debate strategy? even though he's had a great ten days, he's had like a year and a half of controversy preceding it. >> well, look, he's going to prepare the way mr. trump does. he's absolutely committed to going out there and dam paining in all of these states for all voters, something we haven't seen from a republican candidate in a very long time. and he's ready to go up against hillary clinton as we know hillary clinton does have a record of failure as secretary of state, particularly when it comes to the hot topics that many people are concerned about. >> katrina, i think you did your analysis -- excuse me, katrina. >> let rick get in here.
>> don't talk over me. >> stand by katrina one second. let him make his point and then i'll give you the floor back. >> katrina, take a breath. i think you learned your political analysis at trump university. >> take a breath? >> first of all, it's robert. you've got a fixation on george zimmerman which says something else. what makes this election so unique is you see an unprecedented number of leading republican experts in homeland security, in fighting terrorism, in our military including now president george herbert walker bush now standing up and supporting hillary clinton because they regard donald trump as reckless, dangerous and an incompetent. >> het her respond. what do you make of the news broke overnight that the former president george w. bush is planning to vote for hillary clinton? >> i think everyone is entitled to support anyone they want.
many americans applaud president bush. if it is true that some of the bushes are going to be supporting hillary clinton, then i think it really offers vindication for a lot of the tea party goers who felt that republicans were starting to govern like democrats. >> what about the generals supporting hillary clinton other george bush. >> they're going to stick with the establishment. >> robert! >> you have republicans in a numb r record number turn out for donald trump and you have former leaders of the party that essentially slaps him in the face. at the same time everyone is going to have to choose who best suits their values. and if hillary clinton supports george bush's -- >> she wasn't thinking of george zimmerman. i got to leave it there. we zbloo we've got to talk about black le . news broke on this before we came to air. are you interested in and what does it say about us that we
are. plus, new fallout from a police shooting inow creating a new controversy. we'll bring you the story next. >> which way are they facing? >> westbound. >> they're facing westbound. just been constipated? trust number one doctor recommended dulcolax use dulcolax tablets for gentle overnight relief suppositories for relief in minutes and stool softeners for comfortable relief of hard stools. dulcolax, designed for dependable relief
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breaking tonight, the department of justice launching an investigation into the fatal shooting of an unarmed african-american man by a white tulsa oklahoma, police officer. video shows police responding to reports of an abandoned vehicle. you can see terrence crutcher walking towards his car. police say he was not listening to instructions and reached into his car. that's when officer betty shelby fired her weapon killing him. she said she thought he had a gun. also tonight, the marriage of angelina jolie and brad pitt is on the rocks as the biggest superstar files for divorce. trace gallagher has the story. >> megyn so far brad pitt is getting very little benefit of the doubt. angelina jolie filed for divorce after learning brad pitt was involved with the costar in the upcoming movie "ally." reports say jolie hired private
investigator. tmc says it wasn't about cheating, it was all about brad and their six kids saying angelina reached her breaking point last week over brad's consumption of weed and alcohol combined with what she says are brad's anger issues. instead of joint physical custody, meaning the kids live with mom but spend a few weekends a month with dad, jolie is asking pitt get joint legal custody with visitation rights. is asking toel keep jewelry, earrings and property after thes separation. we should note a few minutes after she announced the divorce, there was an earthquake here in los angeles at 3.2. it is unclear right now if the two are connected in any way. >> unbelievable. was talking about today. i mean unbelievable. trace, we'll be right back. thank you.
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preview of to tomorrow's ""new york post"" cover for you. that is jennifer an stone purportedly laughing at the end of the marriage. she's not actually. i don't know. what are you thinking? facebook.com/kelliefiles. >> tonight hillary clinton talks tougher about my supporters than she does about islamic terrorists. >> donald trump is turning up the heat on the campaign trail against his rival. laura ingraham and herman cain are here tonight with reaction. >> the world is by many measures less violent and more prosperous than ever before. then president obama ignores the growing islamist threat and claims the world is less violent than ever before. >> we must have speedy but fair trials, and we must deliver a just and very harsh punishment to these people. and trump says america needs to get a lot tougher with