tv FOX News Special Vice Presidential Debate FOX News October 4, 2016 6:00pm-8:01pm PDT
moment with that lifetime of experience. >> senator kaine, on the campaign trail, you praised secretary clinton's character. 60% don't think she is trustworthy. why do so many people distrust her? is it because of the e-mails in the clinton foundation? >> here's what people should look at as they look at a public servant. do they have a passion in their life that showed up before they were in public life? and if they held on to that passion throughout their life, regardless of whether they are in office or not, succeeding or failing, hillary clinton has that passion from a time as a kid in a methodist youth group, focused on serving others with a special focus on empowering families and kids. as a civil rights lawyer in the south with the children's defense fund, first lady of arkansas, and this country's senator -- secretary of state.
that's a sharp contrast with donald trump. donald trump always puts himself first. he built a business career in the words of one of his own campaign staffers off the backs of the little guy. and as a candidate, he started his campaign with a speech where he called mexicans rapist and criminals, and he has pursued the discredited and really outrageous lie that president obama wasn't born in the united states. it is so painful to suggest that we go back to think about these days where an african-american could not be a citizen of the united states. and i can't imagine how governor pence can defend the insult-driven, selfish me for donald trump. >> governor pence, let me ask you. you have said donald trump is quote, thoughtful, compassionate and steady. yet 67% of voters feel he is a risky choice. and 625% feel he does not have the right kind of temperament to be president. why do so many americans think mr. trump is simply too erratic? >> well, let me say first and
foremost that senator, you and hillary clinton would know a lot about an insult-driven campaign. it really is remarkable. and at a time when literally in the wake of hillary clinton's tenure as secretary of state, where she was the architect of the obama administration's foreign policy, we see entire portions of the world, particularly the wider middle east literally spinning out of control. i mean, the situation we're watching hour by hour in syria today is a result of the failed foreign policy and the weak foreign policy that hillary clinton helped lead in this administration and create. the newly emboldened aggression of russia, whether it was in ukraine -- >> you've got -- >> heavy-handed approach. >> you both have said vladimir putin -- >> we're going to get to russia in just a moment. but i do want to get back to the question. >> elaine, thank you. thank you, senator. >> you guys praised vladimir putin as a great leader. >> we do have that coming up here. but in the meantime, the questions --
>> hit a nerve here. >> at a time of great challenge in the life of this nation, where we have weakened america's place in the world, stifled america's economy, it's been an avalanche of insults. to get to your question about trustworthiness, donald trump has built a business through hard times and through good times. he's brought an extraordinary business acumen. he's employed tens of thousands of people in this country. >> and lost a billion dollars a year. >> why the disconnect with your running mate? >> there is a reason why people question the trustworthiness of hillary clinton. and that's because they're paying attention. i mean, the reality is when she was secretary of state, senator, come on. she had a clinton foundation accepting contributions from foreign governments. >> you are donald trump's apprentice. let me talk about this. of the. >> senator, i think i'm still on my time. >> well, isn't this a discussion? >> this is our open --
>> let's talk about this -- >> governor, you had an opportunity. >> let me interrupt you to finish my sentence, if i can. the clinton foundation accepted foreign contributions from foreign governments while she was secretary of state. she had a private server -- >> i get to weigh in -- >> senator -- please. you have an opportunity -- >> out of the reach -- >> governor pence doesn't think the world is going so well so he's going to say it's everybody's fault. >> do you? >> let me tell you this. when hillary clinton became secretary of state, do you know that osama bin laden was alive? and we had troops in afghanistan? do you know that iran was racing toward a nuclear weapon and russia was expanding its stockpile? she was part of the national team, public safety team, that went after and revived the hunt against bin laden and wiped him off the face of the earth. she worked a deal with the russians to reduce their chemical weapons stockpile. she worked a tough negotiation
with nations around the world to eliminate the iranian nuclear weapons program without firing a shot. >> to eliminate the iranian -- >> absolutely. without firing a shot. and instead of 175,000 american troops deployed overseas, we now have 15,000. these are very, very -- >> iraq has been overrun by isis. because hillary clinton failed to renegotiate. >> all right. >> hillary clinton failed to renegotiate a status of forces agreement. >> that is incorrect. >> gentlemen -- >> removed all of our troops from iraq. >> i would like to move on to the economy. >> i would like to correct -- >> overrun vast areas. >> president bush said we would leave iraq at the end of 2011. and, elaine, iraq didn't want our troops to stay and they wouldn't give us the protection for our troops. and guess what? if a nation where our troops are serving does not want us to stay -- >> it was a failure of the secretary of state. >> a lot of people are wondering
about the economy. according to the nonpartisan committee for a responsible federal budget, neither of your economic plans will reduce the growing $19 trillion gross national debt. in fact, your plan would add even more to it. both of you were governors who balanced state budgets. are you concerned that adding more to the debt could be disastrous for the country? governor pence. >> i think the fact that into this past administration of which hillary clinton was a part, we have almost doubled the national debt. is atrocious. i'm very proud of the fact i come from a state that works. state of indiana has balanced budgets. we cut taxes, we made record investments in education and infrastructure. and i still finished my term with $2 billion in the bank. that's a little bit different than when senator kaine was governor here in virginia. he actually -- he actually tried to raise taxes by about $4 billion. left his state about $2 billion in the hole.
the state of indiana, we have cut unemployment in half. unemployment doubled when he was governor. i think he's a very fitting running mate for hillary clinton. because in the wake of a season where american families are struggling in this economy, under the weight of higher taxes and obamacare and the war on coal and the stifling avalanche of regulation coming out of this administration, hillary clinton and tim kaine want more of the same. it really is remarkable. that they actually are advocating $1 trillion in tax increases, which i get that. you tried to raise taxes here in virginia, were unsuccessful. but $1 trillion in tax increases. more regulation, more of the same war on coal and more of obamacare that now even former president bill clinton calls obamacare a crazy plan. but hillary clinton and tim kaine want to build on obamacare. they want to expand it into a single payer program. and for all the world hillary clinton just thinks obamacare is a good start. donald trump and i have a plan to get this economy moving
again. just the way that it worked in the 1980s, just the way it worked in the 1960s. and that is by lowering taxes across the board for working families, small businesses and family farms. ending the war on coal that is hurting jobs and hurting this economy even here in virginia. repealing obamacare, lock stock and barrel. and repealing all of the executive orders that barack obama has signed that are stifling economic growth in this economy. we can get america moving again, put on top of that the kind of trade deals that will put the american worker first and you've got a prescription for real growth. and when you get the economy growing, elaine, that's when you can deal with the national debt. when we get back to 3.5 to 4% growth with donald trump's plan will do, then we have the resources to meet our nation's needs at home and abroad. and we're going to have the ability to bring down the national debt. >> there is a fundamental choice for the america electorate. do you want your hired president
in hillary clinton or your fired president in donald trump? i think that's not such a hard choice. hillary and i have a plan on the table that's a you're hired plan. five components. first thing we do is invest in manufacturing, infrastructure, and research in the clean energy jobs for tomorrow. second thing is we invest in our work force from pre-k education to great teachers to debt-free college and tuition-free college for families that make less than $125,000 a year. third, we promote fairness by raising the minimum wage so you can't work full time and be under the poverty level and by paying women equal pay for equal work. fourth, we promote small business growth to make it easier to start small businesses. hillary and i grew up in small business families. and fifth, we have a tax plan that targets tax relief to middle class individuals and small businesses and ask those at the top to pay more. the trump plan is a different
plan. it's a you're fired plan and two key elements to it. first, donald trump said wages are too high. and both donald trump and mike pence think we ought to eliminate the federal minimum wage. mike pence when he was in congress voted against raising the minimum wage above $5.15. and he has been a one-man bulwark against minimum wage increases in indiana. the second component of the plan is massive tax breaks for the very top. trillions of dollars in tax breaks for people just like donald trump. the problem with this, elaine, that's exactly what we did ten years ago. and it put the economy into the deepest recession, the deepest recession since the 1930s. independent analysts say the clinton plan would grow the economy by 10.5 million jobs. donald trump, why would he do this? because his tax plan basically helps him, and if he ever met his promise, and he gave his tax returns to the american public
like he said he would, we would see just how much his economic plan is really a trump-first plan. >> on that point, governor pence, the "new york times" released part of mr. trump's 1995 tax return and avoided paying federal income taxes for years. yesterday mr. trump said he brilliantly used the laws to pay as little tax as legally possible. does that seem fair to you? >> well, first, let me say, i appreciated the you're hired, you're fired thing, senator. you use that a whole lot and i think you use a lot of pre-done lines. look, what you all just heard out there is more taxes, $2 trillion in more spending, more deficits, more debt, more government, and if you think that's all working, then you look at the other side of the table. i mean, the truth of the matter is, the policies of this administration, which hillary clinton and senator kaine want to continue to have run this
economy into a ditch. >> 15 million new jobs? >> since the great depression. >> my question was -- >> millions more people living in poverty today than the day with barack obama and hillary at his side. we have the lowest -- >> dramatically in 2014 and 2015. >> honestly, senator, you can roll out the numbers. but i've got to tell you, people in scranton know different. this economy is struggling. the answer to this economy is not more taxes. >> it's not tax relief for the folks at the top. >> governor -- >> i'm interesting in hearing whether he'll defend whether his running mate not releasing his taxes. >> the question was whether it seems fair to you that mr. trump brilliantly used the laws to pay as little tax as possible. >> this is the difference between donald trump and hillary clinton.
god bless you for it, donald trump is a businessman. not a career politician. he actually built a business. those tax returns that came out publicly this week showed that he faced some pretty tough times 20 years ago. but like virtually every other business, including the "new york times" not too long ago, he used what's called net operating loss. we have a tax code, senator, that actually is designed to encourage entrepreneurship. >> but why wouldn't he release his tax returns? >> we are answering the question about the business thing. is -- >> i do want to come back. >> his tax returns that showed he went through a very difficult time, but he used the tax code just the way it's supposed to be used and he did it brilli do yo? we haven't seen the tax returns. >> because he's created a business that's worth billions of dollars today. >> how do you know that? >> and with regard to paying taxes, this whole riff about not paying taxes and people saying he didn't pay taxes for years. donald trump has created tens of thousands of jobs, and he's paid
payroll taxes. >> senator, i'm going to give you about 30 seconds to respond and i have a question -- >> hillary clinton is going to raise taxes. >> donald trump started this campaign in 2014 and said if i run for president, i will absolutely release my taxes. he's broken his first -- he's broken his first promise. second -- >> he hasn't broken his promise. >> he stood on the stage last week and when hillary said you haven't been paying taxes, he said, "that makes me smart." it's smart not to pay for veterans, smart not to pay for teachers and i guess those of us that do pay those things, we're stupid. the last thing i want to ask governor pence. governor pence had to give donald trump his tax returns to show he was qualified to be vice president. donald trump must give the american public his tax returns to show that he's qualified to be president and is breaking his promise. >> elaine, i have to respond to this. >> you get very little time. >> i'll be very respectful.
donald trump has filed over 100 pages of financial disclosure, which is what the law requires. >> but he said he would release his tax returns. >> and he's going -- senator -- >> gentlemen, i need to ask you about social security. >> richard nixon released tax returns when he was under audit. >> gentlemen -- >> you can't meet the nixon standard. >> the people at home cannot understand either one of you when you speak over each other. i would please ask you to wait until it is that the other is finished. senator kaine, on the issue of social security, in 18 years, when the social security trust funds run out of money, you'll be 76. the committee for responsible federal budgets could be cut by $175 billion per year. what would your administration do to prevent this? >> we're going to protect social security. it happened at a time when you would work your whole life, your whole life, raising your kids,
working, being a little league coach or sunday school teacher and you would retire into poverty. and social security has enabled people to retire with dignity and not be in poverty. we have to keep it solvent and we will keep it solvent and we'll look for strategies like adjusting the payroll tax in order to do that. here's what hillary and i will not do. and i want to make this very plain. we will never, ever engage in a risky scheme to private eyes social security. donald trump wrote a book and said social security is a ponzi scheme, and privatization would be good for all of us. and when congressman pence was in congress, he was the chief cheerleader for the privatization of social security, even after president bush stopped pushing for it. congressman pence kept pushing it for it. we're going to privatize social security and look for ways to keep it solvent, focusing primarily on the payroll tax. >> governor pence, i'll give you an opportunity to respond.
>> thanks, elaine. there they go again. donald trump and i have said about social security, we're going to meet our obligations to our seniors. >> go read the book. >> we're going to meet the obligations of medicare. this is the old scare tactic. >> you have a voting record, governor. >> and i get all of that. i just -- look. there is a question that you asked earlier that i have to -- >> defend your own voting record. >> i have to go back to. look, i'm -- you're running with hillary clinton who wants to raise taxes by a trillion dollars and increase spending by $2 trillion and you say you're going to keep the promises of social security. donald trump and i are going to cut taxes. >> you're not going to cut taxes. you're going to raise taxes on the middle class. >> and meet the obligations of social security and medicare. you're going to stay on the path that your party has us on. we're going to be in a majority range of debt and we're going to face hard choices.
>> gentlemen i want to move on. >> the debt explosion on the trump plan is much, much bigger than anything on the clinton side. >> let me move on now to the issue of law enforcement and race relations. law enforcement and race relations. after the dallas police shooting, david brown said we're asking cops to do too much. we put it off on the cops to solve. not enough mental health funding, drug addiction funding. schools fail. let's give it to the cops. do we ask too much of police officers in this country? and how would you specifically address the chief's concern, senator kaine? >> elaine, i think that's a very fair comment. i think we put a lot of police shoulders. this is something i've got a lot of scar tissue on. when i came in, we had one of the highest rates in the country. we fought hard in local office with our police department and reduced our homicide rate nearly
in half. and then when i was governor of virginia, we worked hard too. and we did something -- we had really wanted to do. for the first time ever, we cracked the top ten, ten safest states, because we worked together. here's what i learned as a mar your and governor. the way you make communities safer and make police safer is to build bonds between the community and police force. bonds of understanding. and then when people feel comfortable in their communities, that gap between the police and community they serve narrows. and when that gap narrows, it's safe for the community and safer for the police. that model still works across our country. but there are some other models that don't work. an overly aggressive more militarized model. donald trump recently said we need to do more stop and frisk around the country. that would be a big mistake, because it polarizes the relationship between the police and the community. so here's what we'll do. we'll focus on community policing. we will focus on and hillary
clinton is has rolled that a really comprehensive mental health reform package she worked on with law enforcement professionals. and we will also fight the scourge of gun violence in the united states. i'm a gun owner. i'm a strong second amendment supporter. but i've got a lot of scar tissue, because when i was governor of virginia, there was a horrible shooting at virginia tech and we learned through that painful situation that gaps in the background record check system should have been closed and could have prevented that crime. and so we're going to work to do things like close background record checks. and if we do, we won't have the tragedies we did. one of those killed at virginia tech was a guy, he was a 70-plus-year-old holocaust survivor. he survived the holocaust. then he survived the soviet union takeover of this country. but then he was a visiting professor at virginia tech and couldn't survive the scourge of gun violence. we can support the second amendment and do things like background record checks and that will make police safer.
>> governor pence. >> you know, my uncle was a career cop. on the beat in downtown chicago. he was my hero growing up. we go up to visit my dads family in chicago. my three brothers and i would marvel at my uncle when he could come out in his uniform. police officers are the best of us and men, women, white, african-american, asian, latino, hispanic. they put their lives on the line every day. and let me say, at the risk of agreeing with you, community policing is a great idea. it's worked in the hoosier state. and we fully support that. donald trump and i are going to make sure that law enforcement had the resources and the tools to be able to really restore law and order. so the cities and communities in this nation -- it's probably why the 330,000 members of the
fraternal order of police endorse donald trump as the next president of the united states of america. because they see his commitment through them. they see his commitment to law and order. but they also hear the badmouthing. the badmouthing that comes from people that seize upon tragedy in the wake of police action shootings as a reason to use a broad brush to accuse law enforcement of implicit bias or institutional racism. and that really has got to stop. i mean, when an african-american police officer in charlotte named brently vincent, an all-star football player who went to liberty university here in the state came home, followed his dad into law enforcement, joined the force in charlotte in tw 2014 that claimed the life of keith lamont scott. it was a tragedy. i mean, we mourn with those who
mourn. we grieve with those who grieve. we're saddened at the loss of life. but hillary clinton actually referred to that moment as an example of implicit bias in the police force where she was asked in the debate a week ago whether there was implicit bias in law enforcement. her only answer was there is implicit bias in everyone in the united states. what we ought to do is stop seizing on those moments of tragedy. we ought to assure the public we'll have a full and complete and transparent investigation whenever there is a loss of life, because of police action. but senator, please. enough of this seeking every opportunity to demean law enforcement broadly by making accusation of implicit bias every time tragedy occurs. >> people shouldn't be afraid to bring up issues of bias in law enforcement. >> i'm not afraid to bring that up. >> if you're afraid to have the discussion, you'll never solve
it. here is an example, heart breaking example. the guy philando castillo who was killed in st. paul, who is a worker, a valued worker in a local school. and he was killed for no apparent reason in an incident that will be discussed and will be investigated. but when folks went and explored the situation, what they found is that philando castillo, they called him mr. rogers with dread looks in the school he worked. he had been stopped by police 40 or 50 before that fatal incident. and if you look at sentencing in this country, african-americans and latinos get sentenced for the same crimes at very different rates. >> we need criminal justice reform. >> but i just want to say, those who say -- we should not be able to bring up and talk about bias in the system we'll never solve the problem. >> senator pence -- >> police officers involved in a police action shooting,
involving an african-american, why would hillary clinton accuse that african-american police officer of bias? >> i can't believe you are defending a position there is no bias. >> governor pence, i have a question on that point. your fellow republican, senator tim scott, who is african-american, recently spoke on the senate floor. he said he was stopped seven times by law enforcement in one year. he said, i have felt the anger, the frustration, the sadness and the humiliation that comes with feeling like you're being targeted for nothing more than being just yourself. what would you say to senator scott about his experience? >> well, i have the deepest respect for senator scott and he's a close friend. what i would say is, we need to adopt criminal justice reform nationally. i signed criminal justice reform in the state of indiana, senator. and we're very proud of it. i worked when i was in congress on the second chance act. we have got to do a better job
recognizing and correcting the errors in the system that do reflect institutional bias in criminal justice. but what donald trump and i are saying is, let's not have the reflex of assuming the worst of men and women in law enforcement. we truly do believe that law enforcement is not racist. >> what would you say to senator scott, governor? >> law enforcement in this country is a force for good. they truly are people that put their lives on the line every day. but i would suggest to you, what we need to do is assert a stronger leadership at the national level to support law enforcement. you just heard senator kaine reject a stop and frisk. i would suggest to you that the families that live in our inner cities that are besieged by crime -- >> senator scott. what would you tell senator scott? >> if i can jump in. i've heard senator scott make
that eloquent plea. and, look, criminal justice is about respecting law and being respected by the law. there is a fundamental respect issue here. and i just want to talk about the tone that is set from the top. donald trump during his campaign has called mexicans rapists and criminals. he has called women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting. i don't like saying that in front of my wife and mother. he attacked an indiana-born federal judge and he said he was unqualified to hear a lawsuit because his parents were mexican. he went after john mccain and he said he wasn't a hero because he had been captured. he said african-americans are living in hell. and he prp perpetrated this outrageous lie that president obama is not a u.s. citizen. if you want to have a society where people are respected and respect laws, you can't have somebody at the top who demeans every group he talks about. and i just -- again, i cannot believe that governor pence will defend the insult-driven campaign that donald trump has
run. >> i want to turn to our next segment now, immigration. your running mates have said that undocumented immigrants should be deported. what would you tell the millions of undocumented immigrants who have not committed violent crimes? governor pence. >> donald trump's laid out a plan to end illegal immigration once and for all in this country. we have been talking it to death for 20 years. hillary clinton and tim kaine want to continue the policies of open borders, amnesty, catch and release, sanctuary cities, all the things that are driving -- driving wages down in this country, senator. and also too often with criminal aliens in the country, it's bringing heartbreak. but i -- donald trump has a plan. that he laid out in arizona. that will deal systematically with illegal immigration, beginning with internal
enforcement. probably why in the history of customs enforcement, their union endorsed donald trump as the next president of the united states. because they know they need help. to enforce the laws of this country. and donald trump has laid out a priority to remove people who overstayed their visas. and once we have accomplished all of that, which will strengthen our economy, strengthen the rule of law in the country and make our community safer once the criminal aliens are out, then teal with those that remain. but i have to tell you, i was listening to the avalanche of insults coming out of senator kaine a minute ago. he says -- >> hold on a second, governor. >> my time, senator. >> your two minutes. i forgive you. >> he says ours is an insult-driven campaign. dpu did you all just here that? to be honest with you, if donald trump had said all the things that you have said he said in the way you said he said them, he still wouldn't have a fraction of the insults that
hillary clinton level when when she said that half of our supporters were a basket of deplorables. that she said they were irredeemable. they are not american. i mean, it's extraordinary. and then she laid one after another ism on millions of americans who believe we could have a stronger america at home and abroad and believe we can get this economy moving again who believe that we can end illegal immigration once and for all. so senator, this insult-driven campaign, i mean -- >> governor -- >> that's small potatoes compared to hillary clinton who called them a basket of deplorables. >> hillary clinton said you know what, i shouldn't have said that. >> governor, this is senator cain two minutes. >> now we're even. >> look for donald trump apologizing to john mccain for saying he wasn't a hero, did donald trump apologize for
calling women dogs, pigs, slobs, disgusting? did donald trump apologize for taking after somebody in a twitter war and making fun of her weight? is did he apologize for saying african-americans were living in hell? president obama was not even a citizen of the united states? you will look in vain to see donald trump taking responsibility for anybody and apologizing. immigration. there is two plans on the table. hillary and i believe in comprehensive immigration reform. donald trump believes in deportation nation. you have got to pick your choice. hillary and i want a bipartisan reform that will put keeping families together as the top goal. second, that will help focus enforcement efforts on those who are violent. third, do more border control, and fourth, provide a path to citizenship for those who work hard, pay and take criminal background checks. that's our probably. donald trump appropriates to
deport 16 million people. 11 million here without documents. and both donald trump and mike pence want to get rid of birth right citizenship. so if you're born here who don't have documents, that's another 4.5 million people. these guys, deportation force. they want to go house to house, school to school, business to business, and kick out 16 million people. and i cannot believe -- i cannot believe that governor pence would sit here and defend his running mate's claim we should create a deportation force so they'll all be gone. >> senator, we have immigration and customs enforcement. and for the first time in history endorsed donald trump to be the next president of the united states. >> so you like the 16 million? >> senator, that's nonsense. look, what you just heard is they have a plan for open borders. amnesty. that's -- >> are our plan is like ronald reagan's plan from 1986.
they call it comprehensive immigration form. it's amnesty. and you heard one of the last things he mentioned was border security. that's how washington always plays it. >> no. >> governor? >> three years ago, governor pence was against it. >> it is not a nation. donald trump committed to restoring the borders of this nation. >> so governor, how would these millions of undoumtded immigrants leave? would they be forcibly removed? >> donald trump laid out, border security. and after we secure the border, not only build a wall, but beneath the ground and in the area, we doin' terrible enforcement. but he said the focus has to be on criminal aliens. we just had a conversation about law enforcement. we had a conversation about the violence besetting our cities. the reality is that there is heartbreak and tragedy.
the people who came into this country illegally are now involved in criminal enterprise and activity. and we don't have the resources or the will to deport them systematically. donald trump said we're going to move those people out. people who overstayed their visas, we're going to enforce the law of this country. strengthen immigrations and customs enforcements with more personnel to be able to do that. and then donald trump has made it clear, once we have done all of those things, that we're going to reform the immigration system. >> i have to -- >> that's the order that you should do it. border security, removing criminal aliens, upholding the law and then within -- senator, i'll work with you when you go back to the senate, i promise you. we'll work with you to reform the immigration system. >> i look forward to working together in whatever capacities we serve in. i want to make it very clear. he's trying to fuzz up what donald trump has said. when donald trump spoke in phoenix, he looked the audience in the eye and said we're
building a wall and deporting everybody. he said, quote, they will all be gone. they will all be gone. and is this is one of these ones where you can just go to the tape on it. and see what donald trump has said. and to add to it. to add to it, we are a nation of immigrants. mike pence and i both are descended from immigrant families. some things -- maybe weren't said so great about the irish. we have done well by absorbing immigrants and it's made our nation stronger. when donald trump says mexicans are rapists and criminals, mexican immigrants. when donald trump says about your judge, a hoosier judge. he said that judge curiel was unqualified to hear a cease because his parents are mexican, i can't imagine how you could defend that. >> gentlemen, i would like to shift now to terrorism. do you think the world today is a safer or more dangerous place than it was eight years ago? has the terrorist threat increased or decreased? senator kaine.
>> the terrorist threat has decreased in some ways because bin laden is dead, because an iranian nuclear weapons program has been stopped. the terrorist threat to the united states troops has been decreased because there is not 175,000 in a dangerous part of the world. only 15,000 people. let me tell you this. to beat terrorism, there is one candidate who can do it, hillary clinton she was the senator from new york. she was at the world trade center when they were searching for victims and survivors. the need to be beat terrorism. and she has got a plan to do it. she was part of the national security team that wiped out bin laden. here's her plan to defeat isil. first, keep taking out their leaders on the battlefield. she was part of the team that got bin laden and will lead the team, the head of isis. second, disrupt financing networks, to recruit on the
int internet. fourth, we also have to work with allies to share and surge intelligence. that's the hillary clinton plan. she has got the experience to do it. donald trump. donald trump can't start a twitter war with miss universe without shooting himself in the foot. he said i have a secret plan, and then he said, i know more than all the generals about isil. and then he said, i'm going to call the generals to help me figure out a plan and finally, he said, i'm going to fire all the generals. he doesn't have a plan. but he does have dangerous ideas. he trash talks the military. the military is a disaster, john mccain is no hero. the generals need to be fired and i know more than them. he wants to tear up alliances. nato is obsolete. third, he loves dictators. he's got a personal mt. rushmore. vladimir putin, kim jong-un, moammar gadhafi and osama
hussein. donald trump believes that the world will be safer if more nations have nuclear weapons. he said saudi arabia should get them, korea should get them and. and he said wait a minute, proliferation could lead to nuclear war. and i quote, go ahead, folks, enjoy yourselves. i would love to here what mike pence would say is comical about war. >> did you work on that a long time? >> i'm going to see if you can defend any of it. >> i can make very clear to the american people. after traveling millions of miles as our secretary of state, the architect of the foreign policy of this administration, america is less safe today. than it was the day that barack obama became president of the united states. it's absolutely inarguable.
weakened america's place in the world. it's been a combination of factors. mostly, a lack of leadership. i will give you -- i was in washington, d.c., on 9/11. i saw the clouds of smoke rise from the pentagon. >> i was in virginia. >> i know you were. we all lived through that day as a nation. it was heart breaking. and i guilt of the to give this president for bringing osama bin laden to justice. the truth is, osama bin laden led al qaeda. the prime threat today is isis. and because hillary clinton failed to renegotiate a status of forces agreement, that would have allowed some american combat troops to remain in iraq and secure the hard-fought gains the american soldier had won, isis was able to be literally conjured up out of the desert and it's overrun vast areas that the american soldier had won in operation iraqi freedom.
my heart breaks for the likes of lance corporal scott is he my heart breaks for those in 200 2005. en that nation was secured in 2009. but because hillary clinton and barack obama failed to provide a status of forces agreement and leave sufficient troops from n., there we're back at war. the president ordered more troops on the ground. we're back in war in iraq. and his mom always come to memorial day events to see me. i always give her a hug and tell her we'll never forget her son and we never will. scott sabowski and the sacrifices they made were squandered in iraq because this administration created a vacuum in which isis was able to grow. the iranian deal that hillary
clinton initiated, $150 billion -- >> he dblt st >> stopping the nuclear program. >> he said that eiraning becomea communist nation. >> donald trump opposed extreme vetting for those that export terrorism. but that doesn't explain the terrorist attacks in the united states such as the orlando nightclub massacre and the recent bombings in new york and new jersey. those were homegrown commit bid u.s. citizens and legal residents. what you would propose to prevent those attacks? >> i think it's a great question. but it really does begin with us reforming on our immigration system and putting the interest in the safety and security of the american people first.
we don't bring people into our united states that are hostile to our american way of life. but also, donald trump and i are committed to suspending the syrian refugee program and programs in immigration from areas of the world that have been kpomsed by terrorism. hillary clinton and tim kaine want to increase the syrian refugee program by 500 -- >> i'm talking about homegrown. >> let's put the safety and security of the american people first instead of expanding. >> instead of you violating the constitution by bringing people based on national ornl inon whether they're dangerous. >> that is absolutely false. >> that's what the seventh circuit decided. >> the seventh circuit -- we have different views on refugee issues. hillary and twint doan forcement base ond are people dangerous? these guys say all mexicans are bad. and with respect to refugees, we
want to keep people out if they're dangerous. donald trump said keep them out if they're muslim. mike pence put a program to n. place to keep them out if they're from syria. they said it was discriminatory. >> governor, to your point, the judges said there wasn't any evidence yet that isis had infiltrated the united states. well, germany just arrested three syrian refugees. >> i know, but they told through is a right way and wrong way to do it. it was called paris' 9/11. i have no higher priority than the safety and security of the people of my state. >> but governor pence -- >> i stand by that decision f i'm vice president, i'm going to
put the safety and security of the american people first. >> can we just be clear? hillary and i will do immigration enforcement and we'll vet refugees base ond whether they're dangerous or not. we woept do it discriminating against you from the country you come from or the religion. >> look, elaine, the drekirectof the fbi said we can't know for certain who these people are coming from syria. >> yes, we k we don't let them n and we don't know who they are. we don't let them in. >> the fbi and home land security said we can't know for certain. you got to err on the side of the safety and security of the american people, senator. >> by crashing all -- by trashing all muslims? >> senator tim kaine, senator clinton talked about an intelligence surge. what would that look like and how would that help identify terrorists with no operational connection to a foreign terrorist organization? >> intelligence surge is two
things, elaine. it's first, dramatically expanding our intelligence capacity. it involves increase in our own workforce but striking great partnerships with our cyber and intel experts in the private sector so we can consistent with constitutional principles gather more intelligence. but the second piece of this is really, really important. it also means creating stronger alliances. donald trump's claim that nato is obsolete and we need to get rid of nato is so dangerous. he said nato is obsolete. look, if you push aside your alliances, you're going to share
intelligence with, hillary clinton is the secretary of state who knows how to build alliances. she built the sanctions regime around the world and stopped it rainian nuclear weapons program and that's what intelligence means. >> can i talk about cybersecurity? >> you can have 30 seconds, governor. quickly. >> first donald trump just spoke about this issue this week. we have got to bring together the best resources this country to understand that cyber warfare is the new warfare of the enemies we face in this country. and i look forward if i'm privileged to be in this rolfe working in the senate to make sure we resource that effort. >> we'll work together in whatever roles we have. >> i'll also tell you it's important in this moment to remember that hillary clinton had a private server in her home that had classified information
on it. it was about drone strikes and e-mails from the president of the united states of america. >> governor, i'd like to ask you about syria. governor, have now had a minute. >> the investigation concluded that not one reasonable prosecutor would take any additional step. you don't get to decide the rights and wrongs of this. the republican fbi director did an investigation and concluded -- >> all right. we are moving on now. 250,000 people, 100,000 children, governor -- >> had a absolutely false. >> governor. >> gentlemen, please. >> the fbi did an investigation. >> gentlemen? >> they concluded there was no reasonable prosecutor to take it further. >> senator tim kaine and governor pence, please. i want to turn to syria. 250,000 people, 100,000 of them children are under siege in
aleppo syria. bunker buster bombs, cluster munitions and weapons are being dropped on them by russian and syrian military. does the u.s. have a responsibility to protect civilians and prevent mass casualties on this scale? governor pence? >> the united states of america needs to begin to exercise strong leadership to protect the vulnerable citizens and over 100,000 children in aleppo. hillary clinton's top priority when she became secretary of state was the russian reset. the small and bullying leader of russia is now dictating terms to the united states to the point where all the united states of america and the greatest nation on earth just with draws from talks with a cease-fire while putin puts a missile defense
system in syria while he marshals the forces and begins. look, we have got to begin to lean into this with strong, broad shouldered american leadership. it begins by rebuilding our military. we have the smallest navy since 1916. we have the lowest number of troops since the end of the second borworld war. we have to rebuild our military and strengthen the world. but about aleppo and syria, i truly do believe that what america ought to do right now is immediately establish safe zones. so that families and vulnerable -- families with children can move out of those areas, work with our arab partners, real time right now to make that happen. and secondly, i -- i just have to tell you that the provications by russia need to be met with american strength.
if russia continues to be involved in this attack on civilians, the united states of america should be prepared to use milit to strike military targets of the assad regime, to prevent them from this humanitarian crisis that is taking place. we ought to deploy a missile defense shield to the czech republic and poland which hillary clinton and barack obama pulled back on out of not wanting to offend the russians in 2009. we just got have american strength on the world stage. when donald trump becomes president of the united states, the russians and other countries in the world will know they're dealing with a strong american president. >> senator? >> hillary and i agree the establishment of humanitarian zone in northern syria with the provision of international human aid consistent with the resolution passed in 2014 would be a very good idea. hillary also has the ability to stand up to russia in a way that this ticket does not.
donald trump again and again praised putin and it's clear he has business dealings with russian people who are very connected to putin. the trump campaign management team had to be fired a month or so ago because of the shadowing connections with pro putin forces. he said that putin is a better leader than probe proesident bu. he persecuce thash president obama. if you don't know the difference twin between dictatorship and leadership, then you have to go back to a fifth grade sifgs class. i'll tell what you offends me. governor pence -- >> that offended me. >> governor pence said that donald trump will rebuild the military. know won't. he is avoiding paying taxes. "the new york times" story, we need to get. this "the new york times" story suggest thaed probably didn't pay taxes for about 18 years start unwilling 1995.
those years included the yerz of 9/11. so get this. on 9/11, hillary clinton and donald trump's hometown was attacked. by the worst terrorist attack in history of the united states. young men and women, young men and women signed up to serve in the military to fight terrorism. hillary clinton went to washington to get funds to rebuild her city and protect first responders but donald trump was fighting a very different fight. it was a fight to avoid paying taxes so that he wouldn't support the fight against terror. he wouldn't support troops. he wouldn't support -- this is important, elaine. what when a guy running for president will not support the troops, not support veterans, not support teachers, that's really important. and i said about aleppo, we agree the notion is we have to create an humanitarian zone in northern syria. it's very important. >> governor pence, you mentioned no fly zone.
how would you keep the safe zone safe? >> donald trump supports our troops. he sports our vet raveerans. >> he doesn't pay taxes. >> i'd like to stay on point. >> honestly. >> it is about our troops. how can you say it doesn't support our troops if he doesn't pay taxes. >> i understand why i wants to change the subject. on this russian thing, the larger issue -- >> do you think donald trump is smart to pay taxes. >> what we're dealing with is there is an old prove esh that says the russian bear never dies, he just hiber natures. the truth of the matter is the foreign policy of hillary clinton and barack obama awakened an aggression in russia that first appeared a few years ago with their move in georgia. now their move into cry mira and their move into the wider middle east and all we do is fold our arms and say we're not having talks anymore. to answer your question, we just
need american strength. we fleed to marshal the resources of our allies in the region and in the immediate, we need tookt and act now to get people out of harm's way. >> and exactly how bo the safe zones work? how would they remain safe? >> the safe zones have, to as the senator said, there is already a framework for this that's been recognized by the inltd nation international community. the united states has to be prepared to work with our allies in the region to create a route for safe passage and then to protect people in those areas including with a no fly zone. i traveled in and out of that region for ten years. i saw bhat american soldier won in iraqi freedom and to sea the weak leadership that hillary clinton was the architect of in the foreign policy of the obama administration.
>> he doesn't want to acknowledge that we stopped the iranian nuclear weapons program. he doesn't want to acknowledge that hillary was part of a team that got bin laden. he doesn't want to acknowledge that -- >> i just did. >> that's it's a good thing, not a bad thing that we're down from 175,000 troops deployed overseas to 15,000. what will really make the middle east dangerous. his idea that we're a nation should get nuclear weapons, saudi arabia, japan, south korea. he said something about the nuclear proliferation. he said the problem with nuclear proliferation is that some fool or maniac could trigger a catastrophic event. i think that is governor pence's running mate. >> come on, senator. senator, that was even beneath you and hillary clinton. and that's pretty low. >> do you think -- do you think we should have more nuclear weapons in the world will make us safer? >> senator -- >> that's what barack obama
wants. >> ronald reagan said nuclear war should never be fought because it can never be won. the united states of america needs to make investmentes in modernizing our -- force. >> but you think that -- >> let me go back to this iran thing. he keeps saying that they prevent, that hillary clinton started the deal with iranians prevented iran from getting a nuclear weapon. >> that's not what israel thinks. you would know. that i know you boycotted prime minister netanyahu's speech. the point is what this iran so-called iran deal did was essentially gay guarantee -- when i was in congress, i fought hard on a bipartisan base toss move forward the toughest sanctions.
it literally in the history of the united states. we were bringing them to heal. but the goal is we would only lift the sanction it's iran permanently renounced their nuclear position. they have not. elaine, let me finish the sentence. they have not renounced the ambitions. whlt deal runs out, there is no limitation on obtaining weapons. >> very quickly, senator. >> $1.7 billion in a ransom payment. >> we need to talk about russia. >> six times tonight i have said that governor pence i can't imagine how can you defend your running mate's position on one issue after the next. and in all six cases he's refused to defend his running ma mate's position. >> don't put words in my mouth. >> and yet, he is asking everybody to vote for somebody that he cannot defend. and i just think that is -- >> gentlemen, let's talk about -- i'll give you an opportunity to talk. >> take them one at a time. >> more nations should get nuclear weapons. try to defend.
that. >> he never said that, senator. >> he absolute sli said it. assault and batteriy arabia and south korea -- >> gentlemen, rush yachlt have lat mere putin invaded ukraine and provided crucial military support to the assad regime. what steps if any would your administration take to counter these actions? senator tim kaine? >> you have to be tough on rush yachlt let's start by not praising putin as a great leader. donald trump and mike pence have said he's a great leader. and donald trump has -- >> no, we haven't. >> and donald trump has business dealings with russia that he refuses to disclose. hillary clinton has gone toe to toe with russia. she went toe to toe with russia as secretary of state to do the new start agreement to reduce russia's nuclear stockpile. she had the experience doing it. she went toe to toe with russia a and lodged protests. we put punishing economic sanction onz russia that we need
to continue. donald trump on the other hand didn't know that russia had invaded the cry mee yachlt he said russia is the not going into the ukraine. they went into the crimea two years before. hillary clinton has gone toe to toe with russia to work out a deal on new start. she got them engaged in a meaningful way to cap iran's nuclear weapons program and yet she stood up to them on issues such as syria and their invasion of georgia. america should wonder about a donald trump that had a campaign manage we are ties to putin. pro putin elements in the ukraine that had to be fired for that reason. they should wonder when donald trump is sitting down with putin, it is going to be america's bottom line or it is
going to be donald trump's bottom line that he is worried about with all of his business dealings? this could be sol ffd donald trump wobbling to release his tax returns as he told the american public. and i know he's laughing at. this but every president -- >> what does that have to do with russia? >> every president since richard nixon and he said i'm doing business with rush yashgs the only way the american people will see if he has a conflict of interest is if they see his tax returns. >> senator? >> well, thanks. just trying to keep up with the insauult driven campaign. >> i'm just saying facts about your running mate. i know you can't defend them. >> i'm happy to defend him, senator. don't put words in my mouth. i'm happy to defend him. most of what you said is completely false. and the american people know that. >> senator, please. >> this is theal terntive.
hillary clinton said her number one priority was a reset with rush yachlt that reset resulted in the invasion of ukraine. after they infiltrated with little green men, russian soldiers dressing up like ukrainian dissidents and then they moved into crimea. donald trump now that happened. he said it's not going to happen again. the truth of the matter is that what you have in the rise of aggressive russia which is increase influence in iran that is now because of this deal is on a path way in the future to obtain a nuclear -- the leading state sponsor of terror in the world in iran now has a closer working relationship with russia because of hillary clinton and barack obama's foreign policy. and $150 billion in sanctions all being lifted. then of course syria. it really is extraordinary.
syria is imploding. you just ask a very thoughtful question about the disaster in aleppo. isis is headquartered there. they overwhelmed fast areas that a great sacrifice the american soldier won in operation iraqi freedom. net senator tim kaine still sits here and saying that the foreign policy of hillary clinton and barack obama somehow made the world more secure. what do you respect of the pence administration?
>> it's donald trump, that's nonsense. donald trump -- donald trump is a strong lead wloer is going to -- who is going to lead america. we're going to rebuild our military. and let me say this whole putin thing, look, america is stronger than russia. our economy is 16 times stronger than the russian economy. it is the most capitalist system in rush yachlt when donald trump and i observe that as i said syria and iran and ukraine that small an bullying leader of russia has been stronger on the world stage than this administration, that's stating painful facts. that's not an endorsement of putin. >> governor putin is a better
leader than president obama. that's what donald trump said. and i just think -- >> he's been stronger on the world stage. and i'll just say this governor -- >> who did better? >> if you mistake leadership for dictatorship and you can't tell the difference, a country has running its economy -- >> here we go. >> if you can't tell the difference, you shupt be commander in chief. they have all the dealings with russia. they won't disclose the tax returns. americans need to worry about whether donald trump will be watching out for america's bottom line or his own bottom line. >> senator tim kaine, what went wrong with the russian reset? >> vladimir putin is a dictator. he is a dictator. he's not a leader. anybody that thinks otherwise
doesn't know russian history. so how do you deal with in a? we do have to deal with russia in a lot of different ways. there are areas where we can cooperate. so it was hillary clinton who worked with russia on the new start treaty to reduce the nuclear weapons stockpile. hillary clinton worked to stap the iranian nuclear program. she's not going around praising putin as a good guy. but she knows how to sit down at a table and negotiate tough deals. this say very challenging part of the world. we have to have a commander in chief that is prepared rather than someone that goes around praising putin as a great leader. >> i want to talk about north korea and iran and nuclear weapons. north korea committed the fifth nuclear test. what specific steps you would take to prevent north korea from
developing a nuclear armed missile capable of reaching the united states? >> we need to make a commitment to modernize our military. and we also need -- we also need an effective american diplomacy that will marshal the resources of nations in the asian-pacific rim to put pressure on north korea, on kim jong-un. it has to remain a poll sieve the united states of america. when donald trump is president of the united states, we won't have the kind of posturing in the world that has russia invading crimea and ukraine and the chinese building new islands from the south china sea. it is literally the world including north he could ee flouting american power. we're going to go back to the days of peace through strength.
all this talk about tax returns, i get it. but here's -- hillary clinton and her husband set up a private foundation. why she was secretary of state, the clinton foundation accepted tens of millions of dollars from foreign governments and foreign donors. now y'all need to know out there this is basic stuff. foreign donors and certainly foreign governments can not participate in the american political process. the clintons figure out how to create a foundation to donate millions of dollars and then we find out half of the private meetings when she was second of state were given to major donors of the clinton foundation.
you talk about all these baseless rumors about russia and the rest. they're looking at the politics that is operated with the clintondation. >> we'll talk about a foundation in a minute. now, on the foundation, i'm glad to talk about the foundation. the clinton foundation is one of the highest rated foundations in the world. it aids drugs to half a million people. it helps americans deal with opiod overdoses. it gets more charities than the american red cross does. the clinton foundation does a lot of good work. hillary clinton as secretary of state took no action to benefit the foundation. the state department did a foundation and concluded everything she did as secretary of state was completely in the
trf the united states. so hillary clinton acted in the ben fist the united states. trump's organization and his conflict of interest can only be known if donald trump will release the tax returns. his son said that the organization has a lot of business dealings in russia. remember sh it's not a nonprofit. it puts money in his pockets and the pockets of his children. the clin foundation is a nonprofit. there are no family draws. and, in addition, donald trump has a foundation. the foundation was just fine for illegally contributing foundation dollars to a political can pcampaign of a
florida attorney general. they tried to disguise it to somebody else. the person they donated to is somebody's office was charged with investigating trump university. this is the difference between a foundation that does good work and snab is conflicting and doing work with new york and won't share with the american public what he is doing and what the conflicts r. >> governor, i'll give you 30 seconds to respond. i remind you, this is about north korea. >> the donald trump foundation gives every cent to charity causes. >> every cent on the dollar, they found a charitable causes. it has been a platform for the clintons to travel the world, to have staff.
but honestly, senator, we would know a lot more about it if she would turn over 393 ththe 33,00 e-mails she got from her private server. >> if you had evidence that north korea was about to launch a missile capable of hitting the united states, would you take preventative action? >> look, the president should take action to defend the united states from a nuclear threat. the president has to do that. now what action? you have to determine what the intelligence was, how certain you were of that intelligence. but you would have to take action. i'm on the foreign relations committee. we just had a package of north korea and interestingly enough, the u.n. following visits the same package, china will use their detail in the security council to veto a package like. that they're starting to get worried about north korea, too.
so they actually supported the sanctions package even though manufacture the sanctions are against chinese firms, chinese financial institutions. china is a relationship where competitive and challenging and we have to be cooperative. clinton understand that's very well. she stood up and looked them in the eye and said women's rights are human rights. she did. but she is also working on a lot of diplomatic and important diplomatic deals with china and that's what it's going to take. donald trump is about of $650 million to banks including the bank of china. i'm not sure he could stand up so tough to the people who owe him money. >> all right. i'd like to turn to our next segment now. in this i'd like to focus on the social issues. you have both been open about the role that faith has played in your lives.
can you discuss in detail when you struggled to balance your personal faith and a public policy position? senator tim kaine? >> that's an easy one for me, elaine. i'm really fortunate. i grew up in a wonderful household with great iri irish-catholic parents. my parents are sitting right here. and i worked with jesuit missionaries in honduras. they were the here roeheroes of life. i try to following the teachings of my church in my own personal way. but i don't believe in this nation of first amendment nation where we don't raise any religion over the other and we allow people to worship as they please. that the doctrines of any one religion should be mandated for everyone. for me the hardest struggle in my faith life is catholic churches against the death penalty and so am i.
but i was governor of a state. the state law said there was a death penalty for crimes that jury determined them to be heinous. and so i had to grapple with that. when i was running for governor, i was tacked strongly because of my position on the death penalty. but i looked the voters of virginia in the eye and said this is my religion. i'm nothing go change my religious practice to get one vote. i know how to take an oath and uphold the law. if you let me, i'll uphold the law. i was elected and i d it was difficult to allow executions to go forward. but in circumstances where i didn't feel there was a case for clemency, i told virginia voters i would uphold the law and i did. that was a real struggle. we xnlt just substitute our own views for everybody else in society regard willessless of their views. >> it's a wonderful question.
and my christian faith is at the very heart of who i am. i was also raised in a wonderful family of faith. church on sunday morning and grace before dinner. but my christian faith became real when i made a personal decision to christ when i was a freshman in college. i tried to live that out however imperfectly every day of my life since. we follow a calling. we tried to keep faith with our values that we cherish. with regard to one strung will. i have a great a of respect for his faith, i truly do. but for me, i would tell you that for me the sanctity of life. the ancient principle that we're
wr god says before you were formed, i knew you. so for my first time in public life, i sought to stand with great compassion for the sanctity of life. state of indiana also sought that we expand alternatives to health care counseling for women, nonabortion alternatives. i'm also very pleased we're on our way to becoming the most adoption state in america. i think if you're going to be pro-life, you should be pro adoption. but what i can't understand is if hillary clinton and now senator tim kaine at her side is to support a practice like partial birth abortion, i mean, to hold -- i snow senator timm cain, you hoild pro-life views personally. but the very idea that say child that is almost born into the world could still have their life taken from them is just horrible to me.
i can't think about a party that supports. that i know you oppose taxpayer funding of abortion. but hill kri clinton wants to repeal the long standing provision in the law where we said we wouldn't use taxpayer dollars to funneled abortion. so for me, my faith informs my life. i try spend time on my knees every day. but all for me, it begins with cherishing the dignity, the worth, the value of every human life. >> we really feel you should live fully and with enthusiasm the kmanldz commands of your fa. but it's not the role of the public serve anlt to mandate that for everybody else. let's talk about abortion and choice. we support roe versus wade. we support the constitutional
right of american women to consult their own conscience, their own supportive partner, their own minister but then make their own decision about pregnancy. that is something we trust american women to do that. and we don't think that women should be punished as donald trump said they should for making the decision to have an abortion. govern oo oor perns wants to re roe versus wade. this is pretty important. before roe versus wade, states do pass criminal laws to do just that, punish women if they made the choice to terminate a pregnancy. i think you should live your moral values. but the last thing that -- the very last thing that government should do is have laws that would punish women who make reproductive choices. that slt fundamental difference
between a clin plane ticket and a trump ticket. >> it's not really. donald trump and i would never support legislation that punished women who made the heartbreaking choice at the end of pregnancy. >> you know -- he says exactly what he means. >> the great line from the gospel, the fullness of the heart, the mouth speaks. >> yeah. >> whether donald trump says women should be punished or mexicans are rapists and criminals or john mccain is a hero, he is showing you who he is. >> senator, you ripped out that mexican thing again. there are criminal aliens in this country, tim, who have come into this country illegally who are perpetrating violence and taking --
>> many of them are good people. you keep leaving that out of the quote. there is a choice here. it is a choice in life. i couldn't be more proud to be standing with donald trump. it's a principle that senator cain and i'm very jenlt billion this because i really do respect you, it's a principle that you embrace and i appreciated fact that you supported the hide amendment which bans the use of tachl pair funding in the past. welcome the children into our world. there are so many families around the country who can't have children. we could improve that option so that families that can't have
children can adopt more readily. >> why don't you trust women to make this choice for themselves? we can encourage people to support life, of course we k but why don't you trust women? why doesn't donald trump trust women to make this choice for themselves? there is enthusiasm and excitement convincing each other and dialoguing each other about important issues of the day. but on morality, we should let women make their own decision. >> because a society can be judged by how it deals with the most vulnerable, the aging, sick, and unborn. i believe it with all my heart. i couldn't be more proud to be standing with a pro-life candidate in donald trump. >> i do have one final question for you both. it's been a divisive campaign. senator tim kaine, if your ticket wins, what you are going to do to unify the country and reashurt people who voted
against you? >> that's a really important one. >> that may be the of $64 th,00 question. hillary is running a campaign about stronger together. and donald trump this is not directed at this man, except to the extent that he can't defend donald trump. donald trump is run a campaign that's been about one insult after the next. built we do have to bring the country together. so here's what we'll do. hillary clinton was first lady then senator for eight years and then secretary of state. i served in the senate. i'm really amazed adds i talk to republican senators how well they regard and respect hillary clinton. she woontz arms services committee. shes with on other committees. she worked across the aisle to get the chip program pass sod that eight million low income kids have health insurance in this country including 150,000 in indiana. they worked aacross the street aisle after 9/11 to get health benefits for the first responders who went into the
towers and into the pentagon. she worked to get benefits for tricare benefits for hoosiers and virginians in the national guard. she has a track record of working across the aisle to make things happen. i was a governor of virginia with two republican houses. and snt senate, i have good working relationships across the aisle. i think it's fine to be a democrat or republican or indpeblt. but after election day, the goal is to work together. hillary clin has a track record of accomplishment across the aisle that will enable her to do just that when we work with the new congress in january. >> how will you unify the country if you win? >> thank you for a great discussion. >> absolutely. >> thank you, senator. this is a very challenging time in the life of our nation. weakened america's place in the world. it's been followed by an economy
that is truly struggling. stifled by an avalanche of more taxes, more regulation, obama care, war on cole and the kind of trade deals that put american workers in the backseat. i think the best way that we can bring people together so to change in washington, d.c. you know, i served in washington, d.c., for 12 years in the congress in the united states. and i served with many republicans and democrats. men and women of good will. necessity banlt to see the american kbhe off to the races geb. they want to see an american come back. and donald trump's entire career has been about building. it's been about it's going
through hardship just like a person does and finding a way through smarlt and ingenuity and resilience to fight forward. and when donald trump becomes president of the united states, we'll have a stronger america. when you hear him say he wants to make america great again, when we do that, i truly do believe the american people are going to be standing taller. they're going to see that real change can happen after decades of just talking about it. and when that happens, the american people are going to stand tall, stand together, and we'll have the kind of unity that is missing for way too long. >> all right. gentlemen, thank you so much. this concludes the vice-presidential debate. my thanks to the candidates, the commission, and to you for watching. please tune in this sunday for the second presidential debate in washington university in st. louis. and the final debate on october 19th at the university of nevada las vegas. from virginia, there is cbs news. good night.
>> and a fiery vice-presidential debate where nothing was left unsaid. we were told at the top that we could expect fireworks and they did deliver. each man pressing his candidate's message from the top of the ticket. not sparing the other. and interrupting tim kaine shut down by the moderator or at least admonished 16 times by our count for interrupting mike pence, one laz to wond wler thats with a strategy. it happened so often andapparen. just to give you a flavor for what is being said on twitter and online about this here is from national review's rich lowry. tim kaine strategy, lose debate but trump a lot. pence strategy, win a lot but don't defend donald trump. >> the interrupted didn't seem like it worked that well. it seemed like mike pence kept
az calm. he wanted to focus a lot on foreign policy. he has a history of being on the foreign affairs committee in congress before being governor of ind inld. there wasn't a lot of foreign policy here. tim kaine at one point did not, he said three times that hill kri clinton helped eliminate iran's nuclear program. >> she stopped him. >> and the israelis liked. that the whole status of forces agreement in iraq that, the iraqis decided the troops couldn't there be so they had to pull out. there are 6,000 u.s. troops there now without a status of forces agreement. so that seemed like a weak point. but then mike pence had the tough job of defending specific things that donald trump said. >> he didn't do it. >> and on the taxes, tim kaine wanted to come to taxes again and again and again. so i think there wasn't -- it didn't seem like a knockout moment. but mike pence seemed to have a pretty good night defending what
has been tough to defend. >> looking online, it doesn't seem that anybody thinks that tim kaine won that debate. but the question that is being raised now just by others is that whether was his goal or whether his goal was just to interrupt mike pence to the point where all we heard from him all night was taxes, taxes, taxes, insult, insult, dogs, pigs, slobz, mexicans and so on and try to cover every point that mike pence is making with some sort of insult of trump. >> and the fascinating thing is we knew social issues were going to come up. we didn't know it was going to be brought up by mike pence against tim kaine. one would think that wisdom would be the other way, the religious freedom law in indiana and other elements of his record. however, bringing up abortion and talking about the hyde amendment, it really was an interesting tactic. >> and if they're trying to appeal to this sort of middle of the road moderate republican
voter who sont fence between trump and hillary, talking about faith like that can be very appealing. it's not often you see a politician much less somebody in a potion of mike pence speak o he will consequently about faith issues. and to the pro-life republican crowd that, will be very well received zbhchlt one thing about the format. there were nine buckets of topics. that was a lot. and elaine, you know, was asking substantive questions but there weren't a ton of follow ups. because she had to move on i think to all of the different elements, it seemed like some of the argue ment that could have been developed deeper was left on the table. >> just as you were waiting for the follow up from the other candidate like yeah, what does very to say about that? she would move on to the next topic. and the next topic sometimes was a topic that they had earlier discussed. obviously, listening is as important as when you're
speaking moderating the debates and controlling the candidate is important. she tried. in my experience, you have to shut them down early. you have to shut them down early. teach them the rules in the beginning. like don't make me hit you. >> newspaper to the snout? >> in my experience this works fine. >> let's bring in our panel. tucker carlson is here in the spin room. juan williams is back in new york. all right. tucker, your impressions? >> it was a tough night for tim kaine. i think he entered it with presumption of decency. i think the physical posturing and interruptions did not work well. fundamentally, it's tough. he's representing the incumbent and the status quo is popular which is why this whole election is unfolding as it is. i think in the end the interduction of partial birth abortion, the country is not split on third trimester abortion. i think was a really revealing moment. that is the kind of things that
republicans are hesitant to do, to bring up. >> mike pence is never uncomf t uncomfortab uncomfortable. >> the kun r uncomfortable man was tim kaine. he seemed unprepared for it. it will be interesting to see what the polls reveal. that was a moment. >> thats with an issue. trump son camera back in the day saying he was in favor of abortion. now he says he's not. that san issue he's been hit for flip-flopping. to date party is clearly divided on the issue of abortion. at least they tell us that. >> i think that mike pence will probably be the one that is declared the winner of tonight's debate and the performance. i think it's a reminder to a lot of republicans that right before they were 17 candidates in 2015 for the primary, mike pence is considered one of the republicans many people thought would be good to be tow tat the of the ticket and there was dispinlt ment when he decided not to run for president and run
for re-election in indiana as the governor. tonight i think did he a good job. i think there will be a lot of post debate analysis of things that he was asked to defend but donald trump had actually said that then he sort of let go and would focus on clinton. two things that were a missed opportunity, we didn't hear a lot about obama care. there are big overall changes that the american economy is about to face and how they bo guide the next president who is going to have to deal with this on coming of technology changes and robotics, not just trade that's going to change the landscape but all the things they talked in the prime airy. >> senator tim kaine didn't want to talk about obama care after senator clin said it's crazy and small businesses are taking it on the chin, especially midwest
states. >> you're saying it works for the working class but not the middle class. >> what about tim cane's performance? i saw some saying that this was like al gore in 2000. it was annoying. >> i was impressed when talking about abortion. i think that will be in the headlines tomorrow. we so rarely see that debated on this kind of stage. everybody is so afraid to say the wrong thing. and tonight i think it was really something to hear senator tim kaine talk about his religious faith and then say what about donald trump saying women who have an abortion should be punished. i think that put governor pence on his heels. a lot of the interrupting that you've been talking about, a lot of the emphasis on the tax and the refusal to release the taxes kept governor pence back on his heels.
even in that situation though, what you heard from tim kaine was are you trying to suggest that there's no bias involved and sentencing and arrest records and the like? again what you saw was that governor had difficulty coming to terms with it. so even as he was interrupting, if that was a strategy, he was continually pushing the governor against the ropes and i think the governor was stuttering and stamerring and trying to come to some agreement about it. some understanding. >> i think that's what people will take away from this. >> of 60% p of the conversation
is about governor pence on twitter. they don't say whether that is positive or negative. it is a lot of focus on him. >> well, speaking of twitter, tucker carlson as the two candidates on stage were arguing over who was driving a more insult driven campaign, right, that's what they were arguing about. donald trump was insulting tim kaine and tweeting out, retweeting people who had tweeted tim kaine looks like an evil crook out of the batman movies. and then trump retweeted another person calling saying that tim kaine looked like a fool which led comedian john love et to say, donald trump p is insauis people at the same time that he is dodging people insulting people. >> he is now stenter of the conversation again tonight. >> what a shock. >> but they were kind of making parallel arguments. so tim kaine was making them from beginning toenld the arguement that trump
disqualified himself by the things they said. pence is making the argument that hillary disqualified herself by the things she has done. she is potential for the america we're all dissatisfied with. so it was kind of a stark contrast. and they each had a case, i think. but they were arguing past one another. you didn't see pence say really anything about what hillary has said. you didn't see tim kaine saying any about what trump has done. >> she has called half of the supporters deplorable. >> that's right. for a moment, mostly, you know, of course trump held office. so perhaps that is part of it. really this is about turnout in my view. you saw tim kaine repeating ugly things that trump said about african-americans, latinos and unmarried women. >> at the end, pence came back to what we thought he was going to come back to and that is change. that mike pence, donald trump are change. and hillary clinton is the establish ment, the ultimate
establish ment. and did he neighboring case? i mean he tried to make it she was secretary of state and the world is falling apart on president obama. >> he was saying ways there 12 years. i know there say possibility to actually make some progress and make some change. do some things that would be amazing to make america great again. he was short on sort of canned answers. i think he is overpracticed. pence is very smooth. so if you're listening it to, you you this gosh, somebody like that that just tells it like it is and more comfortable in their skin than a regular typical politician, might be an attractive candidate. i don't know if tim kaine was
able to fire up the minority community or millennials. they know they have a problem there. i don't know if he hit anything out of the park. i think pence is clear lit winner of this particular debate. >> dana, you are feeling emotional this evening? >> it's horrible. and only this one is weak and this one is dry. i don't know what to do about it. >> i thought you were has hashgenning to bush-cheney. >> it's over, dana. it's okay. >> thank you very much. >> coming up, we're going to hear from both sides on tonight's debate. mike huck by and lenny davis will join us with their take. live coverage from longwood university in farmville, virginia, continues in just a moment. >> the terrorist threat is decreasing in some ways because
osama bin laden is dead. it is decreased because the iranian nuclear weapons program is stopped. in the dangerous part of the world, there are 15,000 but there are other parts of the world that are challenged. to beat terrorism, there is only one candidate that can do it, hillary clinton. >> america is less safe than the day that barack obama became president. it is inarguable. we weakened america's place in the world. it's been a lack of leadership that caused this.
big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern. >> what you just heard out there
is more taxes, $2 trillion in more spending, and more and the policies of this administration which they want to continue with. >> hillary since the great depression, there are millions of more people living in poverty today than the day that barack obama with hillary clinton at his side. >> and poverty level -- >> improved dramatically in 2014 and 2015. >> honestly, senator, you can follow out the numbers on the sunny side, but i have to tell you, people in scranton, no different. people in fort wayne, indiana no different. this economy is struggling. >> bringing special council now
along with mike huckabee. and tim kaine interrupted 39 times, mike pence, 19 times. do you think this will sit well with the women -- >> i will tell you what won't stay well. mike pence ran against donald trump tonight. tim kaine ran against donald trump tonight. there were more disagreements by governor pence versus donald trump. he disagrees with donald trump on criminalizing women who terminate pregnancies and disagrees with trump's constant praise approval. >> trump -- >> i am saying that what i heard tonight and my good friend wants to think about pence being on top of the ticket.
you saw two good debaters. both running against donald trump. it was amusing to see the panelists not defending trump but saying pence did very well. so for me, this is great. donald trump's loss and pence and both did well. >> i think rich lawry is not a trump fan. i think those of us in this game listen carefully to the words that are set but undecided voters tend to look at these candidates it was very, very clear that there is a difference between a glass of vinegar and a glass of southern
sweet tea. tim kaine seemed irritated and did not seem to be having a good time. he was giving a speech. mike pence was having a conversation. that that is what i saw. i think tim kaine was hungry because mike pence ate his lunch. >> three times, senator caine said that hillary clinton worked to eliminate iran's nuclear program and said the israelis signed off to that elimination of iran's nuclear weapons program. do you believe that that in fact happened? >> i never heard the word sign off. i heard -- governor kaine, yes, that is the goal to eliminate. and right now, they're not
developing a nuclear weapon before this treaty. they were this close and can we get back know question to the two of you? i hear megyn kelly, who i respect greatly, who is the subject of vicious attacks by donald trump with horrible use of words and we say governor pence say insults about hillary clinton when facts about donald trump are called insults, i'd like to ask megyn kelly, that all of the insults being hurled at you are being called insults rather than governor pence decrying the kind of personal insults he gave to jeb bush and
even you. >> the beauty of being anchor is i get to ask the questions and not answer them. pence didn't take on the insults that tim kaine was listing. he didn't try to defend donald trump on those. he said hillary insulted all of our supporters and then apologized for that. when did donald trump apologize for his remarks about mexicans and so on, so forth? >> i don't think most voters cared if donald trump apologizes. i think they're tired for barack obama apoll jiesz for america all over the world. they wanted a person who is strong. do they agree with them all the time? probably not. i thought mike pence did masterful job of defending donald trump. >> really? >> that does it for our coverage
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appointments available now. breaking tonight, the first, and only, vice presidential debate is in the books and a lot of debate watchers are expressing frustration for at times became a free-for-all. thanks for staying up late. reporting from farmville, virginia, the two candidates left the stage about 20 minutes ago, they covered a lot of ground tonight. from insults and foreign policy and policing there was very little left behind. here is some of that. >> we trust hillary clinton as president and commander in chief