tv Outnumbered FOX News March 31, 2017 9:00am-10:01am PDT
the same could be turned around on them. >> dana: you can imagine that it will be hot. the president tweeting this morning so you know where he stands. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> meghan: fox news alert. for my national security advisor michael flynn offering to testify before congress in exchange for immunity. his former boss president trump backing that idea. this is outnumbered. i meghan mccain. here today, harris faulkner, sandra smith, eboni williams, and mike huckabee. sir, you are outnumbered. >> mike: we could get on the seesaw and the four of you could get on one side and i could get on the other side and it might balance. it's great to be back with you guys. a lot of fun. always fun. >> meghan: a big news day.
we begin with what is not a quiet friday in washington. former national security advisor michael flynn, who was fired for lying about conversations with the russians now wanting immunity from congress in exchange for his testimony. the retired general has president trump backing him. "mike flynn should ask for immunity in that this is a witch hunt, excuse for big election loss, by media and dems, of historic proportion!" meantime, nancy pelosi believes it's a bit premature to be talking immunity. >> we don't want people thinking the justice department cannot make the case they want against him. this is a violation of the law, what that could lead to, i really don't want to think that it's about flint to get the president. this is about flynn and flynn.
>> meghan: i know you are coming on today and i couldn't wait to get your reaction to this. >> mike: i think that's a very smart legal move on his part. i don't think it's admission of guilt. i know what he said several months ago, i get all that. this is now where a guy realizes what's going on. i respect michael flynn, i respect the service that he rendered for over 30 years. he made a mistake, he didn't expose everything, he paid a dear price for it. i've seen this happen, friends of mine, who get mercilessly, not just prosecuted, but persecuted by the federal government and if the government wants to get you, they're going to get you. if they can't nail something specific, they're going to threaten your family with the indictment, they're going to make it so you can't survive. ask ted stevens, senator from alaska. when it's all over and they are vindicated, they're broken, they're out of office, their lives are ruined, their reputations are shot and they
are done. i totally understand that a person might say give me immunity and i'll sing like an opera star. >> sandra: what do you think of the democrats? nancy pelosi already speaking out on this. >> mike: i really care what nancy pelosi says. i just don't. >> harris: i want to ask you specifically about immunity, because there are different kinds. there are in agreement with the other side, the legal side. what about this one at the level at which it is? >> eboni: immunity is what we call a plea bargain. people don't get that bargain part of it. that makes sense. you're doing it in exchange. we do this in our legal system, whether people like it or they don't, it's a normal form of play. governor, when september 2016, when general flynn said what he said about immunity coinciding with guilt, it was political talk. i would caution people around that, because sometimes words
come back to haunt us. i don't have a problem with him seeking immunity here. what i want people to do is pay attention to the order. they are reaching out with an offer of immunity. this is different because it's the general seeking immunity. it tells us that at least the government doesn't believe he has a bigger fish. when they believe you have a bigger fish to offer them, they come to you with the offer of immunity and hopes to get that big fish. >> harris: why do it? >> eboni: his lawyer said, michael flynn has a story to tell and he's willing to tell it out of the right. he's basically trying to insinuate that i know something you guys don't know. i have some thing you want, you may not know you want yet, but i know it. >> sandra: would you call this normal protocol at this point? is >> eboni: absolutely. but it's important for people to look at the order. the government may not legitimately know as much as the things it doesn't work general flynn is hoping that this thing falls in his favor.
>> mike: don't you think it's preemptive? he's saying before they make me a target, before they run my life and everybody around me, my wife, my kids, everybody, i'm going to primitively go to them and say i might have some thing you want, but i'm not giving it for free. >> eboni: if i'm his lawyer, i'm doing this all day. if on the government, i'm leery because they know a lot more than we certainly know. i'm thinking wire than i going to him with a desire to make this offer? the >> harris: you saw the president tweet about this obviously. it does give him grounds to say you are cooperating, we're playing ball. >> sandra: where are you out on this? >> meghan: last night i was on twitter and i'm really gail --a hashtag was trending all over twitter and it's in reference to people in the mafia.
it basically means you turned against the unit you are with. i think -- s niche. >> mike: soon to be deceased is what that means in the mob. >> meghan: it was trending all over twitter last night. i'm not a lawyer. they are explaining it very well to people here. it doesn't necessarily have nefarious implications. if this is just a normal part of the legal process if you aren't in the kind of position that general flynn's end, i don't know what happens. this is not the best day for president trump at the moment. when this hashtag is trending all over twitter, that's not a good thing. >> eboni: it's okay on one side. people are volunteering to cooperate and talk to the senators, but they're not asking for immunity in exchange.
>> mike: if you throw somebody overboard, throw somebody who doesn't cost you anything. right now, mike flynn doesn't cost him anything to throw them overboard. i would do the same thing if i were him. >> meghan: can i ask you, what is the concern here? we know he had spoken with the russian ambassador. if talking to him is it something that is done by so many members of congress, it's a big scandal that he misrepresented himself? >> mike: i think that's a lot of it. the fact he had done some lobbying work and didn't disclose that. it's a classic thing going back to watergate. is not the crime, is the cover up that gets every time. i think it's one of those issues where it wasn't what mike flynn did, and probably wasn't a big deal, but he didn't fully disclose it and that will get
you every time. >> sandra: meantime, we're getting some new information about how devin nunes got access to those documents that reportedly showed trauma campaign officials were swept up and routine surveillance. fox news confirming at least two white house aides helped chairman nunez review the information last week. the administration is in confirming that, but did invite leaders of the house and senate intel committees to come see what may be the material in question. congressman adam schiff saying he will likely head over there today. he still has some concerns. >> i did express and my to white house counsel, my profound concern with the way these materials are being made available to the committee. on the same day that "the new york times" broke the story saying that the source of the materials provided to our children was a fact of staff, i was informed in a letter by white house counsel that
national security council staff found these materials in the ordinary course of business. >> sandra: leaders of the senate intelligence committee turned down the invitation. they are instead asking the white house to send the information to them directly. this story, a feeling for the america people has been hard to keep track of. what's happening now, where are we at with this? >> mike: i think the senate did a good job of framing the issue and kudos to richard burr and mark warner for taking more bipartisan and statesman like approach this and saying this is an about the two of us, it's about bigger things. i have a lot more confidence about that committee going forward than i did the house committee. in glee, and a lot of cases, congressional hearings tend to be a bunch of gas bags going on and on and talking and nothing gets revealed other than everyone in the panel has an extra ordinary ego and something to say. i think this needs to be taken out of the open committees and i know this puts me in a different
spot, not a special prosecutor because they want to probe you on the wall. get a bipartisan group of former legislators who understand, tom daschle, john breaux, get people who have been in the process, let them do a thorough investigation, present those to the committees, but then it has some credibility, but it doesn't have the smacking's of all of this political energy that right now is just invading. >> sandra: there's a some optimism coming from the house. >> eboni: i couldn't agree more with the governor. the house committee reeks of the hyper partisanship. it looks like everyone has such an agenda that they're pushing. this is exactly why the merc and people don't trust this type of internal investigation. it has to be taken out of their hands. the recusal or removal of nunes,
at this point, i'm not for it. he should not be involved. not because he's done the thing wrong, but the appearance of impropriety. you go to the white house before you talk to your coleader on this issue, it doesn't look goo good. >> harris: i think the drip drip hasn't helped either. every day we find out some thing different about that white house trip. i thought it lasted a few minutes. we have hours of discussion about what's new about it. not to mention the fact that even sean spicer this week can't come up with a clear narrative as to what happened on that day and why. nunes can either apparently. we're still waiting to figure it out. even though there may not be a there there, it causes people to pull back and say how do we spell there? >> meghan: kimberly wrote this incredible article in the wall street journal saying first there were dozens of documents with information about trump officials peered the second the information in these documents contain where not related to russia.
third, reports mask identities. they made clear which it trump officials are being surveilled. the question i have, had he not come forward with this information, he also could have gotten in trouble. which do you want? do you want him to come out and say i've seen this, it looks like the obama administration was in fact spying on trump tower, whatever collected information in whatever way possible. i think he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. >> sandra: it seems everyone is obsessed with the process and set of the substance. >> mike: the substances, private citizens, people who are not on the government payroll, apparently were being surveille surveilled. surveilled by government. this is very significant to note. government is surveilling them and then leaking that
information to out them. we should be nervous about two things. the government is spying on private citizens, clearly unconstitutional and illegal. people in the government who are supposed to keep secrets, leak that information out and didn't keep the secret. that is also a felony. or are we not more outraged about the government? >> sandra: us a point that megan has been making for so long. they can get their act together. >> eboni: therapy and alternative argument saying we were doing this, but were doing it in the name of national security. we were trying to figure out the relationship between so-and-so. >> mike: even if that were true, you could say we have a right to spy on the russians, but you don't have a right to spy on the americans. this is why so many people do not trust a government anymore. they feel like they're being violated.
>> meghan: that's the bottom line here. it affects our national security, and makes america less safe and average may concern. >> sandra: president trump doubling down on his critics of the freedom caucus. this after he threatened to fight them in the midterms if they don't get behind his agenda. is this a good strategy or could it backfire? big outrage over a college professor tweeting that an act of kindness toward a military member made him "want to vomit." tucker carlson took him on and it was not pretty. that's coming up. ugh! heartburn!
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>> harris: president trump is calling on members of the house freedom caucus, not once, but twice and now by name. he already tweeted a threat to fight them along with democrats at the midterm elections. later, he got more specific. "if mark meadows, jim jordan, and raul labrador would get on board we would have both great healthcare and massive tax cuts and reform." and "where are mark meadows, jim jordan, and raul labrador? repeal and replace obamacare" meanwhile, health's legislative affairs director says it's all about accountability. a speak president is holding members accountable whether or
not they are members the freedom caucus. >> harris: is is how you get it done? >> mike: sometimes, but you have to be very careful with this. they're not prone to pressure. they go by what they believe and frankly, interestingly, a lot of these guys stood with donald trump and paul ryan was bailing and heading to wisconsin and saying terrible things about donald trump. >> harris: there are now 28. what do you say about 35 others who are more moderate who also made up that number that said no? >> mike: there are some who didn't like that bill because it wasn't conservative enough. there were people left of center, right of center and
there were only 17% of the american people who like that bill. this bill was not something very popular. also, the people who voted against it, their numbers are going sky-high in their districts. ultimately, when the guy talked about accountability, the ultimate accountability as to their districts and their voters. nobody can ever forget that. there were times i would love to punish legislators for voting against something i was proposing, but they weren't working for me. >> sandra: will the strategy backfire? we know some of the top priorities are coming up. threatening by name, freedom caucus members, what is the future look like trying to get things done? >> mike: these guys are less susceptible 20 name-calling because they are medical figure figures. if he puts tax cuts in front of them, therefore it. i thought it was interesting, the statesmanlike approach that he had when they called him out,
they made very positive comments about the president. they didn't use this as an opportunity to fire back. >> harris: they also demonstrate how much power they have. here's another one. for the three pillars the president was trying to get past, and some order fashion, obamacare had to be done first because you need some of the money to make those tax reform items happen the way that i'm reading it. but do you go with obamacare? >> meghan: i think you have to get yourself in order first and understand at the freedom caucus will meet in the middle. if we can get moderates to meet in the middle as well. i'm angry at everyone. i think paul ryan deserves blame, president trump deserves blame, the freedom caucus deserves blame. everyone lost sight of what's really important. i believe that immigration is why you president trump is our president right now. this bill is very unpopular.
mike meadows went home to his district a conquering hero. they're not scared of president trump and they shouldn't be because they have no recourse with this. there's no reason whatsoever. i will say going forward, it is a pipe dream of president trump's idea that we can somehow work with democrats or any democratic person interested in working with obamacare. i think his republicans collectively have to work together. >> harris: there is criticism about that reflexive notion, some calling like banner to reach out to the democrats. it rather than people in your own party. >> meghan: we can have some issues, not on repealing a place obamacare. >> eboni: i agree, it's probably a pipe dream. at the g.o.p. is not even on the same page with it. i don't think you can invite someone else to the dinner party from another party. >> harris: i want to talk about the democrats for a second. what you hear people say is that some of these houses on fire and you don't want to help them, just stand back and watch it
burn, don't make it worse. democrats could not resist. >> eboni: frankly, there's a lot of hurt feelings. >> harris: so you act out like this? celebrating a loss? >> eboni: i don't like it, i don't get down like that because ultimately the american people are important to me. those with this mindset, that is most important for them. yes, they're upset, they feel some kind of way. lost by donald trump in the g.o.p. issue feels like a win. it is not actually a win, but it's being interpreted as a win because they lost so severely going up to this point. >> mike: you saw nancy pelosi do her jump for joy on the capitol grounds. i don't think there's enough nexium in every pharmacy in america for these democrats to get over the selection. they can't get over it.
>> meghan: i think civil war within the republican party is something i'm number four. ultimately, we are on the same team even if we have tiny deviations. we don't see the world in the same prism, but we both hate obamacare and want to repeal it. >> eboni: they won't say obamacare to, but look at bill clinton on the campaign trail. >> mike: one bubba don't like it, nobody likes it. >> harris: we have to move on. >> meghan: i judge politicians by their kids and he has a rad daughter. >> mike: i hope sarah is watching. >> mike: >> harris: attorney gel jeff sessions will be stepping up his consequences were
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>> harris: this story is breaking. we are getting some brand-new details on that visit to the white house devin nunes made when he saw that information from a source under surveillance that caught members of the trump administration as well as how the names were unmasked. the unmasking of the names of american citizens. adam housley joins us now from los angeles. he's been working on this this morning. what can you tell us? >> we've been spoken to by number of sources for the last couple of days and it really came to a head this morning. and our report yesterday, they apparently outed two of its b-17s sources. our sources who had direct knowledge of what took place were upset because those two individuals they said had nothing to do with the outing of this information. let's go through the headlines. we found and we learned that the surveillance led to to the unmasking of what started way before president trump was even
the g.o.p. nominee. basically, the surveillance to all of this at some point earlier last year started. the person who did the unmasking is very well-known, very high up, very seen in the intelligence world and is not in the fbi. this led to other surveillance which led to multiple names being unmasked. these are people who are private citizens in the united states. it had nothing to do with russia or foreign intelligence of any kind. we're also told that the people who helped devin nunes navigate where the two individuals that the stories reported yesterday, they were not his sources. it was a navigation situation. the reason they had to navigate is because nunes learned about the unmasking back in january, before trump's tweets, before he met with the president, and i took a number of weeks to figure out a way for him to see this intelligence.
this is from folks who are in these agencies and frustrated with the politics taking place in these agencies. the main issue here is that not only the unmasking of the names, but the spreading of names for political purposes that have nothing to do with national security and everything to do with hurting and embarrassing the trump administration and his team. nunes you about this way before january before trump street. fox also learned that after nunes had been approached by this source, the agency would not allow him in at all. mind you, there are only two places he could have seen this information. the first place is where the source worked. clearly that would have been an outing. the second place we are told is at a location on the white house grounds. remind you, the white house is not just the white house we'll see. there is the old executive office building where you can also access after hours and get to the same type of highly sensitive information. you can tell, a lot of
information coming out here. we're starting to get much more details on this. the intelligence committee is balancing with itself on the spirit there may be a couple agencies involved here. there are a number of people who are being unmasked. private citizens within the u.s. this is unprecedented. >> harris: i know from some of the information we've been reading today. at the two locations, either the source is computers or on the white house grounds computers. when you ask questions about why nunes met there, you're getting real clarifications. adam housley, the story coming together today. >> sandra: the trump administration's crackdown on very cities make it even tougher. after an announcement earlier this week, attorney general jeff sessions telling bill o'reilly, cities that shield illegal immigrants from deportation may face penalties beyond having just a department grant money to
help. >> we are looking at other possibilities. >> give me an example of mr. attorney general. >> i'm not prepared for that. >> all right, but you're discussing other things. >> in the future, we can put requirements. right now, they send out grant notices that requires people to assert their compliance with the laws and threaten cutting off of various funds that they didn't comply. it will continue to pursue that. >> sandra: he didn't get real specific but he did shed some light on the more detrimental measures. >> mike: people act like it's a big deal. if they don't comply with the drinking age, they lose highway
funds. this has been going on for a long time and for people to act like, they can keep that money from us, oh, yes, they can. >> sandra: they don't seem to feel threatened at all. >> mike: there are so emboldened by what they believe is their righteous indignation and that's fine, but they're on the wrong side of the law when this comes down because the federal government does have the right to put stipulations on the money that they give. i'm just telling you, you don't win that argument when you're the state in the federal government says they're going to withhold money from you. >> sandra: we saw attorney general jeff sessions, he came out during the white house press briefings, he was very firm with his message. the new saw him on bill o'reilly last night. if this is a crackdown and he means business. the >> meghan: i said this yesterday and all presented to
get into you. i don't know why everyone is so angry about this. i don't appreciate the emotional manipulation on the part to a wr citizens safe and have a place where people who have committed crimes have amnesty from the law, and makes me a coldhearted person. we need to get this under control. >> mike: it comes back to this this. we won't have them over the term of a course, we'll ignore them because we don't like them. we need to decide if we are a nation of laws or passion. if we are a nation of passion, it's what i think, feel, and believe. >> eboni: i'm probably a woman of the law. attorney general sessions himself said this isn't new. this grant notices took place under president obama.
there was an expectation of enforcement. that's not new at all. the policy makes it feel new. here's the other issue. you're exactly right. the federal government can actually do this all day long. here's the issue. the jurisdictional battle and that's what this comes down to. whether or not local law enforcement, state law enforcement, can be forced to implement an issue with that jurisdiction wise is more of a federal government issue. that's a different battle. i expect we will see that play its course in the short future. >> mike: i know we have to go, but if those mayors had any brains at all, they would have said we will do everything we can to comply with the law and never found a way to do it. by being defiant, they are during the federal government to yank their funding. how stupid can they be? >> sandra: former presidential candidate hillary clinton speaking today at georgetown
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>> harris: the white house press briefing is coming up in the next little while and we are expecting press secretary sean spicer to face some interesting questions today. it could get a bit spicy. you've got the flu and immunity, you've got the house and tell with the added information that adam housley just broke on our air about the fact that representative nunes now talking about sources and why he had to go to the white house, because you can only get information
about the scoping that they did in two places. the source and inside the white house grounds. more and more about that story, you can expect sean spicer to be asked about that. as always, will carry it live. >> meghan: democrats are ramping up their attacks on president trump. hillary clinton is using another speech to take some jabs at the president just days after she urged americans to resist his policy. >> studies show, here i go again, talking about research evidence and facts. i will state clearly, women are not inherently more peaceful than men. that is a stereotype. that belongs in the alternative reality.
>> meghan: joe biden taking a more direct approach. >> if you could give president trump one piece of advice, what would it be? >> grow up. stop tweeting. start focusing. every time a president speaks, he says something. leaders and people around the world try to dissect, what does he mean? because it matters so much. you can't loosely make assertions without limiting your ability. a >> meghan: all right got to ask a very direct question. is there a point at my life where i will not be subjected to hillary clinton? >> mike: how long do you plan to live? it may be time for hillary to go back to the woods.
democrats have nothing right no now. they're losing in state legislature. all they have is to go to the podium and take cracks at republicans. and away, we ought to be sort of honored by that. joe biden, what he said, have an enduring love for joe biden. he says some crazy things, but by golly, he's a great guy. they have a health care failure, they own that, but if we don't fix it, we are going to own it. they have to get a bill that actually fixes it, not just one that takes one mess and turns it into another. >> eboni: that's a real barometer. not just repeal and replace, but repeal and replace something better.
to your point, when we not be subjected? i'm not mad at all four democrats are taking these opportunities. why these? it's time for the dnc to decide they are going to be new blood, new voices, a new narrative. midterms are coming up soon. if they're going to be at all viable in 2018, it cannot still be hillary clinton out here with this same old tired, what was me narrative. >> harris: with all due respect to the dinosaur history, i wonder what it was like what the last on the planet. they also tend to be the clearest and biggest voices in the democratic party. along with chuck schumer. >> meghan: she's stuck on the
iron throne. it's something you can never -- i take such offense and the idea that all women attached to this idea of what women in politics are. she continues to use identity politics which did not work for her as a way to get in. why continue on a page that you lost so gigantic leon, especially when if you learn nothing from this last election, women in america don't live in a vacuum. by the way, the more you preach about this, the more pro-life women like me get angry and feel less attached to the left. >> sandra: it did seem like the same message. >> eboni: here's the issue. i actually know some very smart, very sincere, articulate,
powerful, young up-and-coming democrats. they get caught up in the machine of this historic type of old '90s. i don't like to see my friends get intimidated by this nonsens nonsense. >> meghan: we have to move on to a story that will be very hard for me to get through. he triggered a serious backlash when he tweeted that seeing someone give up their first class seat for a soldier made him want to "vomit." it's hardly the first time is called professor has made an offensive comment. hear him defending this as he gets the tucker carlson treatment. >> why is it bad to give him a first-class seat? why does it make you mad? why? without touching our savings. yeah, our insurance won't do that. no.
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soldier. people are thanking him. i'm trying not to vomit or yell about mosul." in december, he tweeted "all i want for christmas is white genocide." he blames the right-wing media for blowing his tweets out of proportion. tucker carlson did not hunt him off the hook. >> why is it bad to give them a first-class seat? i'm missing that. if someone's trying to be nice to this guy. if that makes you mad. why? >> i'm all for generous gestures to those who most deserve them in our society and i have a deepest respect for someone who makes difficult decisions. >> you're blaming the soldier, you're not blaming the policy. you are saying giving up a seat for a soldier in uniform means you want to vomit. you're not saying giving up a seat for that guy who made the war policy, but for the soldier. what is it make you feel like throwing up?
>> u.s. troops need real support, they don't need symbolic gestures. the >> eboni: i think everyone is disgusted with this narrative. what in the world could be the point? on the one side, he should not be saying this, yet here is this small but kind and generous gesture. he's attacking it. >> mike: i cannot imagine why he would go the step of going on the tucker carlson show, dropping his pants to his ankles and turning over and giving a full view of his backside to all of america out, which is what he did. what an evil thing to think, to say that it's just horrible to see a soldier gets him respect. the simple solution to this, make a deal with every airline in america that anytime he flies, he flies mcardle with the animals. don't ever let that guy back in the cabinet of a plane because he might have to sit next to the
heroes who give him the privilege of reading three air every day and i'm grateful for those people. >> meghan: if i had a kid who is going to drexel university, i would have pulled them out and i would start protesting. i like my job here and i have met mouth like a trucker, but if i had to witness that on that plane, i would be on youtube and be fired. i can't handle disrespect of any kind on any level towards the men and women who sacrifice so much just putting on their uniform. if any of us know or are related to sue someone, deal with a sacrifice? sometimes in their lives and their families and their wives. how dare you. if that guy doesn't like it here, you can get out. air have to be here were people are sacrificing so much for our freedom. if you don't like it, go someplace else and see how free it is in the middle east. i've been there, it ain't so free. the >> eboni: how about that this is in the first time.
is this somebody who is seeking attention? >> harris: i've never met him. but i've met people who pay the bills for these professors. it's up to drexel to figure out if he collides with the policy they have. most professors have some contractual agreement with their employer, whether it's a long moral lines or informational. i don't know what that would look like. if it collides to the point where their hearing and -- >> sandra: they said these comments were made outside the classroom and do not represent the university. there is no disciplinary action. >> meghan: someone like that should not be around students. i don't off rotc is on the campus, but those -- he has no business in this country. >> harris: it will come down
to money. if parents and others say that we are not going to pay that $2,000 a year, it will come down to money. trust me, will listen just like everybody else. >> mike: more than the parents parents, their donors ought to see this and say you're not getting another dime from me. >> harris: what other kind of bad decisions of the university makingat like using glucerna to replace one meal or snack a day. glucerna products have up to 15 grams of protein to help manage hunger and carbsteady, unique blends of slow release carbs to help minimize blood sugar spikes. every meal every craving. it's the choices you make when managing blood sugar that are the real victories. glucerna. everyday progress.
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>> thank you so much, governor huckabee, always a pleasure. >> i had a great time with you guys. the hour always goes so fast. >> next time, bring your guitar, would you? speak of people have asked me -- to see me play, they asked me not you. >> "happening now" now. >> dana: a flurry of new details and the rush investigation, to white house officials give intelligence committee chairman devon and his access to information that the white house said it opened to democrats, too. welcome to the second hour of "happening now," i am in for it jenna lee. >> ed: i'm and had read in scott. were also waiting where dana used her vein, sean spicer at the podium, there about half an hour from now, pretty jampacked day. >> dana: it is a big news day, you always think on fridays, maybe this will be a lighter day. it never is. >> ed: all of a sudden, general mike flynn may be looking for an immunity deal, on the other end at pennsylvania avenue, lawmakers are preparing