tv Outnumbered FOX News April 12, 2017 9:00am-10:01am PDT
>> still awaiting a tillerson news conference in moscow. we'll see you back here in an hour. >> "outnumbered" starts right now. >> harris: fox news alert. breaking developments in moscow now, awaiting the joint news conference between secretary of state rex tillerson and his russian counterpart amid a tense showdown over what to do in syria. the secretary is meeting with russia's leader vladimir putin. russia said it wasn't originally on his schedule. now it is. i'm harris faulkner. martha maccallum, eboni williams, sandra smith, and veteran news correspondent, geraldo rivera. you're outnumbered. >> geraldo: yes.
lighted to be so. >> harris: this is a huge day with foreign policy. can't wait to get to it. >> geraldo: it reminds of the old saying, be careful what you wish for. here you have putin wishing for trump to become trump the president of the united states, by most accounts trying hard to make that happen, and now he's got trump. trump sees an evil in syria, maybe perpetrated certainly by friends of putin. now he's gotten stung. we'll see where it goes from here. >> harris: we start with the showdown in moscow. secretary rex tillerson sitting down to meet with russian president vladimir putin starting about an hour ago. america's top diplomat is putting pressure on russia. the country's foreign minister, accusing the u.s. of carrying out an unlawful act, attack on
syria, in response to the gas attacks that killed syrian civilians. he's warning do not strike the syrian regime again. president trump says the u.s. is not going to war in syria, but making his contempt for syria's leader loud and clear. watch. >> when you drop gas or bombs, barrel bombs, they have massive barrels with dynamite, drop them in the middle of a group of people, and in all fairness you see the same kids, no arms, no legs, no face, this is an animal. i really think that there's going to be a lot of pressure on russia to make sure that peace happens, because frankly if russia didn't go in and back this animal you wouldn't have a problem right now. >> harris: so you set up us, geraldo, that putin has a problem, and it's the president. >> geraldo: he responded to a crime against the humanity.
i think he could have waited another day, another beat maybe, but i'm not going to, you know, pick little problems with it. i think what the president did was proportional, it was precise. it was a war crime that he punished. now i don't think that there's going to be severe tension going forward, because i don't think that assad will ever use poison gas again. i had doubts it was assad using it, because it was so utterly stupid. he had the war won two weeks ago. the united states was tilting in his direction, heard from the u.n. ambassador nikki haley, from rex tillerson. he gases his own people. foolish, stupid mistake. >> harris: so we were in the greenroom a short time ago. megan, you said you'd like to be a fly on the wall. >> meghan: i'd pay good money to be in that room. i keep thinking of rex tillerson
getting the friendship award, working in the oil industry. they still have a previous relationship. i'm utterly turnely confused bye turnaround. the reason i said be wary of putin was that he was aiding and abetting assad's genocide on his own people. it's not that i'm not pleased that trump was come around, but this happened in 2013, this has been going on for years. so other than why now, other than it's under his watch, and again what is the strategy going forward? you said we're not going too send troops in, but we've already sent a direct message globally. what comes next? we're going to sit back and do nothing? i don't see that tactically smart either. >> harris: what's interesting what megan is saying, awaiting to hear what comes next, perhaps we'll hear the policy the president has with regard to
syria. he says i'm not going to share strategy, but share the policy after this meeting today between the secretary of state and the president of that country, russia. >> eboni: to megan's point, i'm concerned about the unintended consequences of this type of action. look, i agree something needed to be done. i'm going to hope and pray that president trump, although he won't be sharing it widely with us, what his strategy is, but he's thought about it, taken into consideration and into account, and the risk associated with all aspects of this are being calculated and considered. >> harris: what's interesting, sandra, president obama took heat for saying he wasn't going to put ground troops in. there were some republicans who said, well, that's giving away our strategy. now this president has done it. so how is it different? does that matter? >> sandra: it does matter. the american people care, because as we talked about yesterday, the american people were southwestward, and there's very low tolerance for sending ground troops in there. >> 18%.
>> sandra: the person people liked what you saw, what you just detailed, geraldo, but there's little tolerance for action. >> meghan: this was popular, around 57% of the american public supported this. there's confusion. i do think under new leadership, under president trump, under general mattis, there could be an argument that can be made, in a way to convince the american public. >> meghan: i want to talk about this bit of news that's just come to us. the u.s. embassy is on the record reporting that that meeting at the kremlin between secretary of state tillerson and president putin of russia in its 55th minute, nearly an hour. that gives us some texture about how deep they may be going. not like they passed each other in the hallway. this is almost an hour, geraldo. >> geraldo: i think in the near term, harris, it's not that difficult to solve this emergency. here's what you do. tillerson, secretary of state, makes very clear to the russian
president that we will not tolerate weapons of mass destruction. no matter what happens in syria, you use gas, that's our red line, we've now established that very firmly. president obama did not. president trump has very clearly. no gas. assad, forget about it. now president putin says to secretary tillerson, let's finish the prime goal, wipe out isis, kill isis together. let this be our mini summit conclusion. no gas and kill isis. >> harris: not many, but many. i get you. >> meghan: i say it with respect, but that's terribly naive, to trust putin, giving money, resources, bombing hospitals in aleppo, a bedfellow with isis. >> geraldo: two weeks ago you
would have had a different opinion. >> meghan: no. i'm ideologically consistent on this. >> geraldo: you can't uproot the shiite government of syria and replace it with a sunni government. that's what he did in iraq. it spelled disaster. thousands americans dead and -- >> meghan: we're talking about a no-fly zone possibly, sending in aid. what you just said right now is that the american public should be convinced that we can consider russia and vladimir putin, who is bombing hospitals in aleppo, an ally of the united states of america. i think that's painly naive. >> geraldo: i see isis bombing civilians everywhere. we have to have a joint crusade to rid the world of isis. don't forget the u.s -- >> meghan: our traditional allies. >> geraldo: the enemy of our enemy is our friend. >> harris: can you rid the world of isis with assad still in power? >> geraldo: i think that isis -- first of all, to blame assad for
isis is a classic misdirection. isis is sunni-led group, the stepbrother of al-qaeda that bombed the world trade center,, against france, belgium, against germany, against u.s. interest. you can't lose sight of who the prime enemy is. assad is a monster, but not my monster. >> meghan: i think megan's was trying to make two different points. can we be bedfellows geopolitically with the russians, and the answer is we've done it in the past. we've jumped in the trenches with people who were our enemies to knock out another enemy in the past. then your next question is a good one. how do you trust them, because they've already said on the record, if you guys are flying around, we can't offer any
assurances that your pilots won't be shu shot down. >> eboni: at what cost? i get it, geraldo, but at what expense? i don't think always the enemy of our enemy is our friend. we have to be careful with that construct. from my experience, geraldo, when i was talking, visiting with generals on the ground, on the syrian border, on this very same issue. >> sandra: nikki haley was speaking at the u.n. at the same time of this meeting, and said the u.s. is compelled to act, won't look the other way, watching the regime's actions closely, that we need to see russia's side of the civilized world. >> meghan: they just said it was an unlawful act by president trump, just simply bombing an airfield, which, by the way, they ended up being able to fly planes out of a day later. they say that's an unlawful act. >> geraldo: i think the only way
you prevent getting sucked into this thing -- and bleeding america -- is to say there's two principles we stand for. number one, no weapons of mass destruction. if you do, we'll hit you hard, and maybe assassinate you. there's a red line and we enforce it. the other one is, isis our enemy. kill isis. if you have just those two points, it's not tillerson's job to create a syria for the future, to nation build for the united states. trump doesn't want to do that. the american people don't want to do it either. you just cited a survey. >> meghan: you're saying we should team up with vladimir putin, which i think is not only naive, but actually impossible. keep saying it was an unlawful attack by president trump finally enforcing this red line. this is someone who has committed in every conceivable way of aiding and abetting this genocide that's gone on in aleppo bombing hospitals with children.
sell that to the american public, i don't think it's possible. >> geraldo: as a student of history -- we sided with joseph stalin against hitler. joseph stalin killed 50 million russians and -- >> meghan: i'm not going too get on board with this. i'm a student of history as well. we both know that casualties and sacrifices of war very well. i'm just saying for me, and for the majority of the american public, this would be a difficult sell. he's a thug, a murderer. >> geraldo: he's old. >> harris: i hear geraldo saying, he's talking about a level of separatism that you are not getting behind. in this room today, how separate can these two leaders keep these issues ultimately? >> harris: i would say this as well. as far as we know of today, syria's leadership, their government, bashar al-assad, has not come after us, or grown sympathizers all over the world, in 14 different countries, and
come here to the united states. >> geraldo: right. >> harris: it has not metastasized outside the borders of syria. that's a contained situation that you hope these men can come to an agreement with. but the islamic state savages are doing the first part of the phrase i just spitted out. they want to kill anybody that's not like them. if we can come together -- i don't know. meghan, brings up great points. we are awaiting the moscow news conference. our secretary of state, when he finishes the conversation with the president of russia, he'll then step in with sergei lavrov his counterpart in russia to hold a dual conference. we will anticipate maybe we will find out what he talked about with the president. that would be my question as a journalist, and we'll carry that out. as that pops up on the screen,
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>> harris: the stakes just got higher. this fox news alert on our secretary of state rex tillerson now meeting with the president of russia. remember the top spokesperson for putin said this was not on the president's schedule. this was probably not going to happen. the stakes got higher because it has. so now we want to know what are they talking about with regards to syria and so much else. perhaps in an upcoming dual news conference between tillerson and his counterpart of russia, lavrov, we'll find out more about what those two men are talking about right now. president putin of russia, rex tillerson, secretary of state of the united states of america, more than an hour meeting. we'll bring you the news as it's
made. meghan? >> meghan: attorney general jeff sessions signaling an immigration crackdown speaking in arizona near our border with mexico yesterday. sessions says he's ordering federal prosecutors to reprioritize certain immigration-related offenses, including transporting or harboring immigrants, illegally entering the country, and possibly charging some immigrants with aggravated identity theft, carrying a mandatory two-year prison term. sessions warning those crossing into the country illegally this is now the trump era. watch. >> the most important for us is to send a message to the world that the border is not open. please don't come. you will be apprehended. if you do come, you will be deported promptly. if you're a criminal, you'll be prosecuted. if you assault our officers, we're going to come at you with a ton of bricks. >> meghan: geraldo, the border is not open. please do not come. >> geraldo: i don't mind the tough talk, because it's
deterred people trying the southern border, and that's a good thing because it's so dangerous for them. to stabilize the border is a good thing. but i'm absolutely deeply hurt and offended by the tone of this language. this attorney general by using words like filth to describe the undocumented immigrants coming across the southern border, it smacks of a racist tint to me that i find repulsive. i think that the whole notion that they are possibly going to charge and arrest american citizens who harbor undocumented immigrants, for god's sake, what does that mean? does that mean you arrest the mother and -- citizen mother and citizen children because the dad is an undocumented immigrant? to me it is -- i don't mean harsh and business like, but when it becomes, you know, almost hate-filled, i think that it sends a message to the world, that is absolutely unnecessary and inhumane in many ways. i know i'm in the minority
around here. >> harris: i'm going to speak from my heart. sounded like fugitive slave laws to me, quite frankly, that spirit of the harboring and abetting, the hypercriminallizing of some of this behavior. again, it's different than what i heard on the campaign stop. it's different from if you happen to be here illegally, you're convicted of, or committed felonies, or dangerous crimes, things like this, go after those people. they need to get out of our country, absolutely. this is a different tenor. i believe in a sovereign state and border, we need to enforce that, absolutely, but this isn't the way to go through it. >> sandra: his base probably sees him following through on his campaign promises. >> geraldo: what happened to the targeting of the drug cartels, the gangbangers? i can take jeff sessions. i remember when rudy giuliani first got the job as u.s.
attorney in southern district, i said do you understand how wall street is dealing heroin right now? i took rudy giuliani down to wall street and he saw the lines of people waiting to buy heroin. i want to take attorney general jeff sessions to the gangbanger centers in east l.a., or in brentwood, long island, i'll show him the ms-13, the this and that. i know who the gangbangers aren't. you can't tell me the feds don't know who they are. they have tattoos all over their necks, and teardrops for killing people. why do you go after juan and maria, the apricot picker? how does that make america safer? >> harris: what you have a wife and child turn on the illegal father, that's an entering perspective, but you cannot -- interesting perspective, but you can't get away from that you are here illegally that's the initial crime. i will say what's interesting too for a next chapter in all of
this, there's a report out on sanctuary cities crackdown, could threaten a government shutdown. this is being tied to money, because this will become the must pass for republicans in a budgetary taking away funding from sanctuary cities. this got to be a national topic for everybody, not just the sanctuary city, because the budget affects everybody. it's fascinating. >> geraldo: castlcalifornia is e verge of becoming a first sanctuary state. >> harris: that's not a shocker for anybody. >> geraldo: think it through. will the blue states have one law vis-a-vis immigration, and the reds states another law? >> meghan: comprehensive immigration reform is something that's been going on for a long time, trying to get passed for over a decade, in the senate n the congress. it's deeply unpopular with the base of the republican party. i would debate it is a tiny bit of a reason why marco rubio didn't do better running for
president. we can sit here on this couch and talk about comprehensive immigration reform, why certain people who are picking fruit shouldn't be targeted in the same way that harsh criminals are. this is not the rhetoric that got president trump elected. he's following up on his campaign promises. so sitting here and sort of getting emotional, in my opinion, a little overly dramatic about what is happening, i don't think helps anything. for the core of the base of the trump supporters, who are still very strong and tied to him, this is exactly what they want. >> harris: the people on the border too. i leave for arizona later today. i live six miles from the valley. i can cross over and visit the next country. i'm curious to visit with border agents while i'm down there about what they're seeing. you talked about the tide being stemmed because of the policies in place, his perspective on things. it's interesting to watch. >> eboni: i hear what meghan is saying about this, in terms of the base, what they want to hear, but i did hear candidate trump talk about priority lists
around this thing, what it would look like. you're initial, the initial criticism icrime is coming intos country illegal. first, it's expensive. >> meghan: 52% of all criminal prosecutions in 2016 were immigration-related. immigration crimes 69,636. all other crimes, 63,405. >> geraldo: right, but the crime they're referring to, the lion's share of them is being here. that's not the crime. they didn't rob or rai rape somebody. >> meghan: it's different to feel compassion for somebody that didn't come here legally, when there's people that went through the proper channels, fought to say here, who are citizens. i don't have the same compassion for them. >> geraldo: which is fine. you know my family loves your
family. there is no space between my dad and me when it comes to this issue. i would suggest you're in a majority in the mccain family, because mccain and rubio, god rest his soul, ted kennedy, lindsey graham -- >> meghan: i'm telling you the voters have spoken loud and clear. >> geraldo: i agree. that's why i removed my fervent passionate opposition to the wall. if you want to build the ball, waste $25 billion building a wall, a majority of the states, elections have consequences, build your damn wall, but i'm saying there's a better way to do it. combine the tough talk, which has deterred voluntarily -- mitt romney was ridiculed for talking about self-importation. now you have self-exclusion, people saying i'm not going to try the border, i'll get in trouble, i'm not going to do it. people are being decentized to try the border. i have no problem with that. but when you unleash the feds in
this one against juan and maria, new jersey what the local news stories will look like in the sanctuary cities. you have the county sheriff, the local cop, the state policeman on one side, the i.c.e. agent on the other. everybody is pointing at the i.c.e. agent and -- >> harris: but when you look at statistically where we have been, both the ramp-up and then after the presidential election, people don't necessarily see the movie playing out in your head. what they say is a president who's keeping his campaign promises in terms of stemming the tide of illegals coming across the border so on and so forth. we have to move on. our secretary of state is meeting with the president of russia. he's got a full day, mr. tillerson. the secretary is then going to have an equal counterpart -- wait -- news conference with sergei lavrov, the top diplomat, if you want to call him that, foreign minister of russia. that's coming up. we'll cover that live right here
or they get their, like, money back. saraaah!!! come to prom with me!! no. -hey mr. parker. claim satisfaction guarantee, only from allstate. it's good to be in good hands. >> sandra: secretary of state rex tillerson meeting in russia with president vladimir putin. we're awaiting the high stakes news conference with sergei lavrov. meantime in an exclusive interview with maria bartiromo on the fox business network this morning, president trump saying the carnage should never have gotten as bad as it has, and blaming his predecessor for not doing anything to stop it. >> what i did should have been
done by the obama administration a long time before i did it, and you would had a much better -- i think syria would be better off than it has been. >> obama didn't push for -- >> he didn't do it. they had a big attack after he drew the red line in the sand. they had a big attack. everybody waited, what's going on, and nothing happened. even the obama people admitted he was wrong for not doing it. >> sandra: what do you make of that? would syria be in a better position, be better off today had the former president, obama, acted different? >> geraldo: i think that president trump is exactly right, that the originally sin in syria is barack obama's sin. it's just that i date the president -- potus 44, barack obama's, problems with allowing assad and his regime to be destabilized by encouraging representative democracy in syria the way we did in libya, throughout the arab world with
mubarak in egypt, with the guy whose name i forgot in tunisia. barack obama, very naively, beginning in 2009, you arabs deserve to be one man, one vote, all the rest of us, so he got the muslim brotherhood after he threw mubarak out. gadhafi was killed, and -- >> sandra: in the wake of this strike? syria, you heard john kerry speak out in support of what president trump did. >> meghan: i was surprised to hear that, because i would debate that john kerry was 100% complicit in the atrocities that happened in syria. president trump, 100% accurate. he wouldn't be in the position globally that we are right now if president obama hadn't spent eight years leading from behind, and gone on international apology tours for the united states of america. i hope president trump has learned lessons from the last eight years. i believe what's happened in syria is when the president leads from behind.
i think we have a role as the greatest country in the world to help out these people. i do in the simplest way possible. geraldo thinks that's not the best idea. >> harris: ho you wehow would yh ground troops to help these people? that's scary. >> meghan: of course it's scary. this country is incredibly war weary. but i would debate president obama wouldn't let us win. when he pulled us out of iraq, we know now isis metastasized out of it. if we had led the generals and leaders do their job -- i don't understand exactly where president trump is on syria. >> eboni: quick point on this. here's the thing. hypocrisy, meghan mccain, i despise it, i appreciate president trump did something on this issue, and he did it. in 2013, president obama didn't do nothing.
he went to congress for an authorization vote. he did get a floor vote at all. that didn't happen. president trump is tweeting out, and i quote, the president must get congressional approval before attacking syria. big-time mistake if he does not. now we see the president doing that. geraldo, i hear you, but where's the consistency on the issue? >> geraldo: you're exactly right, precise on the issue. in 2013, president obama, everybody would have forgiven him, but he waited. >> sandra: we are awaiting a joint press conference with the russian foreign minister, sergei lavrov and secretary of state rex tillerson. we'll bring you that meeting
live as well as the joint news conference. see more of maria bartiromo's exclusive interview with president trump this weekend on sunday morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern right here on the fox newschannel. all right. a special election for an open seat in kansas turned out to be a squeaker. the harsh words, the losing democrat has for his own party. did the democrats miss a big opportunity? didn't they learn anything from hillary clinton's loss? plus, the ceo of united airlines, speaking out for the first time since dramatic video showed a seated customer being dragged off an overbooked face with flightwith a bloody face. we debate it next. >> my initial words fell short of truly expressing what we were feeling. that's something that i've learned from.
>> meghan: after hillary clinton's stunning election loss, democrats vowed to remake their party and focus on middle america, but five months later it appears they've failed their major test, estes winning over thompson in a close race in kansas. thompson and to point the finger at his own party, saying they didn't support him. >> we've already shocked this country, sent a message that no republican district in this country is safe. they need to do a 50-state strategy. >> meghan: in contrast, thompson's rival had help from president trump, vice president mike pence, and even senator ted cruz, plus the national republican congressional committee pushed abortion-themed attack adds against the democrat. it's a fascinating race to watch. this was the tightest race in
this district since 1994. a pro-choice bernie-crat lost by only seven points in the deep red state of kansas. >> geraldo: i think the special elections share one thing in common, all a referendum on donald trump. i submit to you if donald trump did not bomb syria last week, which -- like what he did or don't like what he did -- definitely improved his popularity. that democrat would have won, or come even closer in wichita. the president is such a lightning rod. he's the focus of everybody. his popularity will determine how these special elections go, i think. in terms of the democrats not helping him enough, i have nothing but contempt for the in that case national committee. they are disdysfunctional. they can't get their act together. they don't know who they are. they're barely a political party. >> sandra: what do democrats need to do to get their act together?
>> geraldo: i think what democrats have to do is recognize that they're all in it together, and you know, give everybody a shot. >> eboni: they need to give people something to focus on. you have to give the american people something to vote for, a message, something to get up and show out at the polls for, not just -- i would submit that was part of the failure of hillary clinton's candidacy. i think the dems get it together, give people a message, an economic message, for people to connect with, and vote for, you will see this happen time and time again. a 50-state strategy won't help matters. >> harris: it's interesting what you say, about having something that's aspirational, which is
about action, we would hope. the democratic party is shutting down the place where ideas come from, the next generation. they're not listening to that next generation of politician, next generation of citizen-turned-politician. they've shut it down. they have nancy pelosi going after representative tim ryan, not giving him a voice inside the party. it's a shame for any party to do this, but it's a shame particularly for a party that needs it the most. >> meghan: this guy that lost is person it oof the bernie sanders playbook. this is the first 100 days, the honeymoon person for president trump. if it's come coming this close at this point in time, i agree with you, eboni, the democrats need a broader message other than "we patriot president trump." seven points in this area of kansas. i mean, this is significant. had the dnc had their you know
what together, spent money, done ads, got only knows how he would have done. the rnc dumped i think $150,000 in the -- >> harris: under wasserman-schultz there was the pushback against anything bernie sanders. do you think all of those people have left? >> geraldo: you can't discount the power of the abortion issue in kansas either. >> meghan: yeah. >> geraldo: you can talk about the broad universal truths, but the fact of the matter that issue is so irritating, it's so motivating to some people, that i don't think that in particular district, you know, although i think the president's popularity had an impact on the vote, it was a choice versus abortion. >> harris: it was close. >> meghan: yes, it was. all right. the head of united airlines speaking out and apologizing in his first tv interview after a passenger was forcibly dragged off a flight. is it enough? or do we need congress to get involved? >> it was a system failure.
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>> sandra: united airlines ceo oscar munoz speaking out for the first time after a passenger was forcibly removed from a flight. here's what he had to say this morning. >> the first thing that's important to say is to apologize to the doctor, his family, the passengers on that flight, our customers, our employees. that is not who our family is. you saw us at a bad moment this. can never, will never, happen again on a united airlines flight. >> sandra: sort of a softer stance than we heard from him yesterday. that was a rough day. united airlines stock dropped $250 million in market value, and congressional lawmakers began calling for an investigation into the incident, and potential new legislation to protect the rights of airline passengers. the ceo promising the situation will not happen again.
>> in the future, if no one voluntarily decides to leave a plane, based on the amount of money that united is offering, will you -- >> we are not going to put a law enforcement official to take them off. >> a law enforcement official will never come on one of year planes again? >> to removed a booked, paid, seating passenger, we can't do that. >> sandra: he went on to say he will not resign over this issue, but that remains a big question, because this was a major intercept story that hurt their brand. geraldo? >> geraldo: airlines disgust me. they really do. they do everything to maximize profit. i grew up in the era when there was an airline monopoly, where they charged how much they would charge to fly from new york to los angeles, three different airlines did it. the airports themselves were much more civilized. now it's a mess. you fly -- >> harris: hold on. first of all, there's nothing
wrong with maximizing profit. that's what you're supposed to o do as a publicly-traded airline. >> geraldo: but this is not business. this is reckless, foolhardy, in position of your own personal convenience to the -- what happened to the customer's always right? >> sandra: there's still so many details coming out of this story, harris, every minute of every day. there's a major lawsuit on their hands. >> geraldo: oh, for sure. >> harris: a lot of people were talking about whether he's a reputable doctor, he has a shady past, blah, blah, blah. here's what counts at this moment, how he was treated on that flight. that could have been any of us. they asked four people to go. he was the last to go. he was kicking and screaming, i'm a doctor, blah, blah, blah. no matter what was going on with him it did not directly impact what they did to him. although the minute you see cops coming, you should capitulate,
okay, the cops are here. >> sandra: reportedly this man has lawyered up. what does this lawsuit look? >> eboni: a tort law school hypp hypothetical. did they have a right to remove a passenger? they do have the right. that's fact. the way in which they go about it, do they have the right to do that by any means necessary, not when it includes battery, harm, to said person. that's where i would see a successful lawsuit coming. >> geraldo: i predict an enormous settlement. there will be no lawsuit. skoig let's get the words of the united ceo on what he says the passenger deserves after all of this. listen. >> what do you think he deserves in all of this? >> well, certainly an apology. from that point on, we'll have to see. >> do you think he's at fault in
any way? >> no. he can't be. he was a paying passenger, sitting on a seat, in our aircraft, and no one should be treated that way, period. >> meghan: from a pr perspective, whatever advice he got, it wasn't right. you need to apologize. we were talking about this for days now. this seems like the culmination, as you said, of everything that's wrong with the airline industry. i also think most of the time you feel like an animal, going through the airport, from everything how some people in the tsa treat you to how you're sitting -- americans pay a lot of money to -- >> harris: there's another side of this story, that the airlines have been over-regulated, to the point where it's difficult to conduct business in country. overregulation didn't end up with that guy -- did not end up
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