tv Justice With Judge Jeanine FOX News December 16, 2018 12:00am-1:00am PST
be sure to follow me on facebook, instagram and twitter. justic"justice with judge jeanis up next and remember, i'm watters and this is my world. [♪] judge jeanine: hello and welcome to "justice." i'm jeanine pirro. thanks for being with us tonight. and thanks for making justice number one in primetime last weekend. we have a big show on deck with professor alan dershowitz. former governor mike huckabee and secretary of health and human services, alex azar, to name a few. but first, my open.
we were in a dark and dangerous place in america where politics is driving our system of justice. instead of lady justice being blind to politics. the story of lieutenant general likele flynn, in the end it's so much bigger than politics. whether usual left, right, agnostic or indifferent. at its core, this is a story of injustice. it involves the usual players, protagonists, antagonists. pretty much know the who, what, where, when, and how. the fundamental question. on january 24, 017 was michael flynn treated as per the rules like any other fbi target? the answer a resounding no.
he was treated differently. which brings us to the question, why? the answer to why brings us to an unsettling place. foreign to all of us who have spent our careers revering the american system of justice. it is that system of justice that distinguishes us from other countries. we are fair, we strive to achieve justice for all. no one is above our law, and no one is beneath it. it's why people clamor to come here legally and illegally. as strong as the statue of liberty is in the harbor of new york. it also is a symbol of blind lady justice in courtrooms across this great nation. the facts of this story are simple. flynn was in the cross-hairs of the fbi, targeted by the same players who when know from
publicized text messages and emails trying to prevent a certain candidate from becoming president and promote another. they were dirt which, they were liars, they were leakers, and they were corrupt. there is one important fact that you need to remember. the conversation flynn had with the russian ambassador during the transition was legal. perfectly legal. take that one to the bank. it is what is done in every new administration. the setup, michael flynn was called by deputy fbi director andrew mccabe and told that the fbi wanted to talk to flynn about the rugs. and the quickest way to do it was to keep the lawyers out. a clear violation of protocol, white house rules, and
ultimately flynn's constitutional rights. we know this because u.s. district court judge emmitt sullivan ordered prosecutors to hand over fbi files of the flynn interrogation instead of extension him as schedules. 48 hours later the files are handed over as per the judge's directive. although incomplete and redacted. they confirm what director comey himself admitted. and what the judge apparently suspected. the doj and fbi hatched a plan to deliberately and intentionally avoid protocol, standard operating procedure in an effort to entrap michael flynn. comey even admits it when he pulls off the mask of cardinal comey to reveal the face of a hardened political operative who
deliberately trapped anyone. he not only admitted it, he brided himself on what any other decent man of honor would have been horrified to admit. that the rules, the law, and the constitution matter not when politics is at stake. >> something i probably wouldn't have done or maybe gone the away with in a more organized investigation -- more organized administration, in the george w. bush or obama administration. judge jeanine: something he wouldn't have gone the away with in any other administration? to be clear. the fbi went to great lengths to disavow flynn of any concerns. telling him your lawyer doesn't need to be there. a plan comey and strzok and page strategized to keep the department of justice out.
we know there were many arguments about whether or not they could and should do this. you may be sitting there saying hey, flynn was a general, he should have known not to lie. you are right. but what is a lie? is it a mistake? a misremembrance, a memory that doesn't remember everything. or untruth. if an untruth doesn't require an intent to deceive to be a lie. flynn knew that any conversation he had with the russians was record and the fbi would certainly have a transcript of his conversation with the russian ambassador so there would be no point in lying. even more compelling. agent strzok and other fbi agent to interviewed flynn say he did not lie.
quote. both had the impression at the time that flynn was not lying. and did not think he was lying. they even said he was unguard and friendly. the notes further describe that flynn did not give any indication of deception. curious, however, is the fall our of the fbi and the special counsel to provide the fbi's 302 of flynn to judge sullivan. how does the fbi file a false statement charge when the fbi thought it was in lie. you are probably asking yourself, why would flynn even plead guilty to lying when he wasn't lying. the answer? flynn based on his record of 33 years as a decorated military man is an honorable man who may have realized when he saw the transcript that what he said was
not consistent with the transcript. er. >> maybe he pled guilty because he ran out of money to defend himself. even having to sell his house to survive. or maybe to save his son, also in the cross-hairs of these people. for those of you who think the fbi was just trying to get to the truth, you are wrong. if they wanted information, if they wanted the truth, they could have shown flynn his transcript of his conversation to refresh his recollection to get at the truth. but, no, they didn't want the truth. they wanted to take down a bit player to get to the big player. tuesday the parties will appear again before judge emmett sullivan, a judge unafraid of the swamp. a judge with a track record of
calling out prosecutorial misconduct. a judge who does not permit injustice or abuse of power. the judge can throw out this guilty plea if he concludes the fbi intentionally interfered with their target, michael flynn's constitutional right to counsel. that's my open. if you like my opening statement, you will love my book, the "new york times" number one best seller, "here is, leakers, and liberals." here with more, alan dershowitz who joins me by phone. professor dershowitz, thanks for being with us this evening. >> the obvious point everybody should understand is that the fbi didn't ask him these questions to learn the truth.
they knew the truth. they were giving him an opportunity to lie. he could have told the truth if he remembered. but he didn't. but the idea is that i don't think in america we want to empower the fbi, grand jury and prosecutors to impose criminal morality theft on citizens. give them opportunities to lie, opportunities to tell the truth. test them as judge sullivan implied and judge ellis said clearly. the goal was not to get flynn obviously. he's a means to the end. their goal was to find some low-hanging fruit. figure out a way to get him to lie to the fbi so they could squeeze him to sing or compose. the obvious target was donald trump. not flynn. and the question is whether or not we want to live in a society and as a civil libertarian, i don't, in which the fbi, the
grand jury and prosecutors are empowered to conduct morality theft. the function of grand juriys and fbi agents is to get to the truth they should never ask a question to which they already know the answer. did you have conversations with this diplomat. the fbi knew the answer. it was not an appropriate question. the only reason for asking that question was to give him an opportunity to lie it's an inappropriate use of prosecution. from day one i said flynn was not guilty, he could win this case, he should never have pleaded guilty, but because they threatened his family, his fortune, they twhreanted his integrity. he felt he had no choice. if he pled not guilty and went to trial he would get five to 10 times the sentence he would get if he pled guilty. judge jeanine: it isn't even an issue of living in a country
where they can do a truth test on us. it's living in a country where the rules are followed. he was a target. he was being interrogated. he was not just justed that he was a target. he was sold slick in you don't need lawyers. comey laughed about it and said in any other administration we wouldn't have done this. that's even worse than where -- than somebody was just forgetting about the truth. >> i agree this question that they should have gone to the white house counsel's office. she should have arranged a formal meeting. they should have told him they are interested in investigating him. they should have told him they had evidence he lied. and now they want to show him the transcript and ask him whether this has happened. can he explain why it happened?
you said at the beginning of your monologue. nothing illegal or improper were him talking to a diplomat. that happens all the time. the question is should they be rewarded for breaking the rule or should judge sullivan impose a consequence on them. judges often use good language like judge ellis did and criticize prosecutors, but they rarely throw out cases. i'm anxious to see what happens in this case. i thought the disclosured made by the special counsel's office did not strengthen the case. i think they weakened the case. i would like to see the redacted material. the judge has a good reputation. let's see what he does, and if it goes beyond flynn, this goes beyond trump. it goes to what the appropriate role of what prosecutors, grand
juries, and fbi are in a democracy that follows the rule of law. comey laughed by the and talked about getting away with it, it certainly doesn't put the rule of law and the rule of the fbi in a very positive light. judge jeanine: i think we lad some problems with the professor hearing me. the mooch is waiting in the wings. anthony scaramucci. one of my favorites and mine. governor mike huckabee paid a holiday visit to "justice." i'll talk to him about michael flynn and all the things going on in washington. don't go
good to have you back on "justice." the return that was ordered by the judge in this case because, he said to mueller, i will give you 48 hours. i want the 302 or the fbi's report of what flynn said to them. and the judge never got it. what's curious is when the fbi interviewed hillary clinton, that 302 was written on the same day, july 2 of 2016. and when hillary clinton went to speak to the fbi, she was told to bring a lawyer. she was advised about what she was going to be speaking about. do you any there was a difference between the way necessity treated hillary clinton and the way they treated michael anyone? >> oh, no, not at all. justice is blind. my gosh, judge. this is just ridiculous. you have been on the bench. if you order someone to provide
evidence to you in the case, that's contempt of court. i don't know how this continues to go on. people like donald trump talk about this being a witch hunts. it is a witch hunt. but they are going after the wrong witch. they need to go after some of these people including hillary clinton and james comey who can't remember a doggone thing before congress when's under oath. but he can sit there in his open jacket and be the toast of the town and brag about how he got away with sucker punching a fine public servant and military hero like general flynn. it's disgusting. judge jeanine: we have a great jurist, emmett sullivan. he suspected something was wrong. he ordered the 302. but what he got was a report
written 7 months late everywhere the fbi said he didn't lie. so the issue is, will this judge make a decision on his own to vacate the plea which anyone has not asked for. and the amazing part, if i does, the -- if he does, the house of cards of robert mueller falls. >> it would be a tremendous act of justice on the part of emmett sullivan, the judge, if he would do that. it would expose there has been a stonewalling on the part of the government. this ought to scare the day lights out of every american. if our government can come after us and prosecute us for political reasons. we have a third world dictatorship and that scares the pants off me.
judge jeanine: michael cohen pled guilty and within the same week he was sentenced. general flynn pled guilty i believe it was in december of 2017, and a year later he has not been sentenced. some people think he's cooperating. but here is the thing. he wasn't charged with conspiracy which would have come blood there was conspiracy going on with the president other russians. and secondly, he didn't testify against anyone which they could voo used as -- they could have used for the sentencings. do you have any idea what's going on? >> i think largely they know they don't have a case. they sucker punched him and got him to bleed to something. they scared him that they would
go after members of his family and he did lose his house. and they would make his life even a worse living hell and destroy this man's great career and reputation. he made sacrifices for his family. what a shame to have to do that. judge jeanine: a texas judge ruled obamacare unconstitutional. saying the original mandate which was repealed by the tax law required the whole law to go down. we saw immigration judges overturning some of the rules, some of the laws, some of the orders. and they affected the nation national are you. this judge, does his ruling effect obamacare across the nation? >> i think it ultimately will. i hope it bubbles all the way to the supreme court.
once congress took away the individual mandate, there was no tax. twhrfer there was no way for this to continue to go. i think it will go to the court, the supreme court, and they will uphold the judge. and obamacare will be over. it will collapse. judge jeanine: it will be interesting to see what happens in the next few months. merry christmas, good to have you on the show. the war over the wall. trump, pelosi, schumer and the battle over immigration. how is it all going to play out? next the panel is primed for a spirited debate on one of the biggest issues facing america. will it shut down the government? dan bongino and chris hahn are
judge jeanine: my panel is here to break down the battle over the border wall and government funding. chris hahn and dan bongino. right now we have got the president saying that he's ready to shut down the government for border security. is it the right thing to do, chris? >> absolutely not. we have millions of federal workers and millions more who serve as federal workers who will have to worry about their christmas. you talk about the war on christmas. this is a war on christmas by the president to threaten these people with their livelihoods over a border wall which he was given a year and a half ago in exchange for daca. judge jeanine: dan?
>> chris, you notice how he did the pivot there? that was impressive. even for chris. this is about a war on christmas. are you seriously making the cause that donald trump wants to shut down the government? he ran on building the border wall. people voted for him on building the border wall. the border wall is going to be $5 billion. all of a sudden chris and his liberal buddies will spend money on shrimps on treadmill mill studies. >> i only went to one trump rally. i know you went to many. i remember him saying we are going to build a wall and mexico is going to pay for it. judge jeanine: i want to say
something. you are totally wrong. he offered daca to 1.8 million people in exchange for the wall and he did not get the wall. you got that backwards. the fundamental issue that it want to ask you is, is it fair to have a wall or is it unfair. should we have a wall? forget about the shutdown. >> no, we should have border security that does the job. we don't need a wall it's a complete waste of money. judge jeanine: yes or no question. hit it, guys in the control room. dan. >> illegal immigration is wrong, plain and simple. >> i voted numerous times when i was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from
coming in. >> we simply cannot allow people to pour into the united states undetected, undocumented, unchecked. judge jeanine: this is about hating donald trump. to hell with the american citizen. your party said this over and over. now because donald trump is in office, they don't want it. go ahead, dan bongino. >> the reason chris doesn't want a wall built is because the wall works. i have a simple question for anybody listening tonight. chris included. you are looking to cross the border illegally into the country, not legally. do you want to cross where there is a 20-foot reinforced wall or just walk across the border. chris will never answer that question honestly. he'll dance around it because he knows the answer. the answer is you want to cross where there is no wall. >> dan, i know you have been
busy with the book tour so let me spell it out. 90% of people that come here illegally overstay their visas, and a wall is not going to stop that. judge jeanine: should we let the other ones in? he necessity answers the question. -- he never answers the question. >> if you can answer a simple question, do you want to cross the border where there is a 20-foot reinforced wall or where there is no wall at all. >> if i have a 25-'ladder i will cross where there is a 20-foot wall. is mexico going to pay for the wall or not.
judge jeanine: i want to ask a simple question. in the end, if the president has identified and border patrol identified 600 gang members, and i believe there are also 10 individuals -- i'm not sure what it is, who have been charged with felony crimes. 76% of the americans agree with the president. why is this such a problem for you guys when you philosophically agree it's donald trump you hate. >> i do not hate donald trump. and if donald trump can get mexico to pay for the wall, i think they should be stopping felons from coming into this country who mean to do us harm. but that said, a wall is a tremendous waste of american dollars. that's why the president said mexico should pay for it. judge jeanine: dan, last word. >> he still hasn't answered the
questioned. do you want to cross where there is a wall or not. when you look at the sectors of our border where walls have been built, illegal immigration crossing is down dramatically. chris was vaccinated late as a child. it's difficult for him. judge jeanine: thanks so much. a justice exclusive. alex
lot of friends who are democrats. if the republicans and democrats get-togethers, we are going to end up with incredible healthcare which is the wait should have been from day one. it's going to ham. it has to happen. jenna: that's the president a short time ago phrasing a federal judge's decision dequlairing obama ware unconstitutional. i sat down with the secretary of health and human services to discuss healthcare and medicare and more. i want to talk to you about healthcare. it's not something we cover a lot on justice. but during the mid terms there was a lot of talk about healthcare. now there is a lot of talk about medicare for all. what does that mean? >> first, great to be on your show. glad you are talking healthcare. it's very important.
medicare for all would be taking everybody else in the country and putting them tighten medicare program. it's a great program for our senior citizens. but you start expanding that out to everybody else, you will under might employer insurance market. 130 million americans get insurance from their employers. medicare rates are much lower than what private insurance pays, they won't be able to compete. it will be single payer. and it will undermine senior's care. doctors will leave the program because they say they can't make money. itch private sector patients i can make money on. you give those medicare lower rates to everybody else, they will say i can't make money.
i'm going to pull out of the system and the better doctors and hospitals will pull out of the system and seniors access to care will be hurt. we need solutions to fixing medicare solvency. and they want to add $32 trillion in expense. judge jeanine: my mom is a senior. like many in her generation, they have gone through depressions. my mom is 89. we'll call me up and say i got a prescription for $500. what is donald trump -- what is the president, what is the administration doing who seniors because of the way they are, they start making choices. i have to get my medicine this week, i have to be careful about everything else. >> the president cares deeply about the struggles seniors are
having, that's why he made reducing drug costs central to healthcare. he approved for generic drugs that brought $26 billion of savings. he passed the gag qulawts provisions that say that pharmacists can no longer be gagged from telling senior whereas they can buy their drugs cheaper if they paid out of pocket than use their insurance. judge jeanine: my mother mentioned her family said she should pay cash and not submit it. now you have a right to ask your pharmacist, thanks to donald trump. judge jeanine: europeans are getting the same medicine sat lower prices? >> we found thatture means, japan and canada are paying much less than we are for drugs.
president trump said america first. no more. what we are going to do is require that if the drug companies voluntarily give the deals to other big powerful economic countries, they have to give us a cut of that same bargain in our program. give us a 30% discount to get down to the rates to put americans first. stops free riding on american investment can preserves seniors' access to the same medicine. judge jeanine: the opioid crisis. people go to their doctors, get medication then get addicted to it. >> the president led an historic effort to tackle this devastating drug addiction crisis. the majority of people addict toad opioids -- addicted to opioids. they get their wisdom teeth taken out and they get pain
medicine and they get addicted. guess what, already he's cut it by 23 -- by 28%. we are seeing deaths from opioid overdose blah towing. utilization of opioids reducing. a long way to go, but everything is going in the right direction. judge jeanine: we appreciate you being with us. thanks for being with us. more shake-ups in the white house. i will get the low-down from the mooch. anthony scaramucci is next. don't go away. guys, it's that time... and nothin's happenin'.
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>> i like him a great deal. i don't know him as well as i knew some of the other people during the campaign. at the 21 club, in round table discussions web's wickedly smart, very, very capable. has an understanding of what we need to do for deficit reduction. super responsible guy. and he'll help the president get things done like the border wall and he'll help the president as it relates to framing out the 2020 election. judge jeanine: when you say he's wickedly smart, he is. but the job of white house chief of staff is more than being wickedly smart. it requires that you be able to understand the man in charge and you be able to keep up with him. hugh do you think mick will do with that? >> i don't know anybody who can keep up with him.
if that was the qualifications, maybe mick will be mad at me for saying that. he's a hard guy to keep up with. what you are really saying there is shouldn't be any day light between him and the president. i think mick has that. mick has the president's trust. when you think about the budget issues that have come up. it's worth saying on your show. almost the' complete and full restoration of the military. the president was in the roosevelt room saying i don't want to spend this sort of money but i had to allow for democratic shenanigans to get in there to fix the military. mulvaney was like a surgeon in that process. judge jeanine: i can't help but ask about lieutenant general michael flynn who is coming up for sentencing tuesday, but whose sentencing judge required
the special counsel to provide 302s and other records which the special counsel did not provide in full. and it appears this judge, emmett sullivan who is have much a jurist who abhors the abuse of power will be sentencing anyone on tuesday. the special counsel is asking for no time. when a special counsel asks for no time it tells me that they don't want an appeal because they don't want the rotten onion being pulled back. >> i'm going a light a candle for you michael and his family and hope for the best for him next week. when you think your opening statement. there is a chance he could have this whole thing thrown out and/or overturned and hopefully no jail sentence. general anyone is an american patriot.
he sacrificed enough for his country. i think it's hard to understand the facts, judge. so for me -- as people i recommended that he gets limited jail time. i hope it's no jail time for him. i think that will send a very good message. judge jeanine: with this special counsel recommending no jail time and ready to go to sentencing the judge pulls back and says i want to see what your basis is for this below. it tells me the judge could have gone along with the no sentence. the judge is looking for something deeper. >> you think he could overturn it? judge jeanine: i do. i think this judge has the capacity. going into 2019. what do you think is in store for the president. >> i think he'll get his trade deal dwont chinese. he'll fix the trade problem we have with the europeans. it will be good for the stock market and keep the economy in acceleration mode.
judge jeanine: one of the things you know have much about. >> i'm happy to be back my money, judge. [speaking in italian] ...i just got my ancestrydna results: 74% italian. and i found out that i'm from the big toe of that sexy italian boot! calabria. it even shows the migration path from south italia all the way to exotico new jersey! so this holiday season it's ancestrydna per tutti! order your kit now at ancestry.com
there was passed away at the age of 106. saturday nights won't be the same without knowing you are watching. my condolences to her daughter and granddaughter. she came to one of my speeches in october. we are sending condolences to the familiar live an american hero. army sergeant first class eric edmund was killed in afghanistan. he served 7 tours there and was one of the founders of massachusetts fallen heroes. he was 39 and leaves behind his wife allie and three children. go to massfallenheros.org to see how you can help. good night, thank you all for