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tv   FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace  FOX News  September 13, 2009 6:00pm-7:00pm EDT

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in the ukraine and it's not clear if he will be allowed to adopted, now 62 years old, the little boy and acknowledges there are country that's may not allow a gay couple to adopted. >> nice hanging out with you today. a lot of fun. yes. >> chris: i'm chris wallace and this is "fox news sunday." president obama makes his case for healthcare reform. now, it is congress' turn. we will talk with four senators at the heart of teeth bait. the debate. then, his outburst during the speech has got everyone talking. we'll sit down with a man who called out the president, congressman joe wilson, in a "fox news sunday" exclusive. plus, the road ahead in
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afghanistan, eight years after 9/11. are democrats in congress prepared to flock the presidents if plan for victory? we will ask our sunday regulars. and our power player of the week, big labor's biggest voice. all right now on "fox news sunday." and hello again from fox news in washington. we'll talk with congressman joe wilson in a few minutes about his outburst during the president's speech and whether he will apologize on the house floor or face some form of discipline from the democratic leadership. but first, was mr. obama's speech a game changer in the debate easer is healthcare reform? let's get right to it. senator orrin hatch of utah, did the presidents it speech improve his chances forgetting the plan through this year? >> i think it probably did. it was long on rhetoric and
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very short on substance but nevertheless it was a very good political speech. too bad this wasn't 2008 rather than 2009. but it was a good speech but i really believe that the hard work has tobies done and hopefully we can all work together and get it done but i don't see it with what they are trying to do. >> let me bring in senator lindsay game of. t help or hurt getting healthcare reform passed this year? >> i thought it was a disaster. i thought it was combative. he is on the defensive. he is accusing us of bickering when we are trying to have major policy discussions. he outlined a $900 billion proposal that really doesn't make sense in how you would pay for it. i don't think it advanced the ball substantively and politically made it hard to find the middle. >> chris: perhaps the president doesn't want the middle.
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did the president resolve the differences between liberals and moderate democrats in congress? >> well, i think the speech he was trying to speak to america and make sure that americans realize the kind of misinformation that has been out there. as we try to come up with a plan that works for most americans in terms of holding on to insurance and stablizing insurance there is bib and take. the president cleared the air about bahar is true and not true about what we are trying to get down here and why it is 10 important for america. i thought it was strong and i think the molly henneberging industry kited that afterwards. wing voters that said yeah, he is willing to compromise and be pragmatic. that's good. >> chris: are democrats in the senate now unified behind the presidents it plan. in. >> i think democrats are pretty much unified in the senate around the plan that brings down costs because that is the
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central goal here and i thought the president made a very powerful case that the course we are on now is utterly unsustainable. anybody that says we just stay on the current course is not paying attention. we have got a circumstance in which cost has to be brought down. that is the number one issue i heard across my state during the break. second, he said he is prepared to hear a better idea so if somebody has a where idea, bring it to him. third, he said, look, i am ready to move toward the middle. he talked about a plan very close to the bipartisan plan being developed in the finance committee. >> the big issue going into the beech was whether the president was going to insist on the public option, government run insurance to compete with private insurers. here is what he aid. >> the pubs public option is only a means to that end. we should remain open to other
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ideas that accomplish the ultimate goal. >> chris: senator conrad, some people read the president as paving the way for dropping the public option. one of the leaders among democrats who is looking for another option besides government-run insurance. is that the way you re read its the president is giving up on the public option? >> i think he made a strong case for his support for the public option as an option but i think he also said look, i'm open to other ideas. in fact, he spoke favorably about the cooperative approach which would provide a nonprofit competitor but would not be government run. run by its memberself as all k
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co-ops are. >> chris: as a practical matter >> this is public option dead. >> i don't know, in some ways it is a distraction the meat of the matter is we're losing 14,000 americans from health insurance every day and the meat of the matter is, most middle class families are worried they will not be able to afford health insurance, next year. and, the bottom line is, we -- in the -- deficit hawks cannot look you in the eye and honestly say, we can do anything about the deficit, if we don't bring down health care costs. so, i think with -- what the president tried to do is shift the emphasis of the debate to the vast majority of the provisions, and accomplish some of those things and reduce the deficit and bring down costs and make health insurance available and affordable and secure. for most americans. and that is really the meat of matter not the dis tracks of whether it's a public option or co-op and that is a small part of the it and did a good job
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reprioritizing our debate in that regard. >> chris: senator graham, let me ask you, when democrats talk about it as a distraction, it is -- we may not get the public option, why not work with democrats to find a compromise. >> i think the public option is dead, and it probably has been dead a long time, because the public is very afraid, 85% of the people with private health insurance like what they have got and understand if the public option is part of reform measure private insurers cannot compete against the government over time and one thing we can say, if the deficit matters which i'm glad to hear it does and the public option is not acceptable the house bill is dead which -- throw it in the garbage can because, $239 billion added to the deficit over ten-year period, it has a public option, so it looks like all of the action now is in the senate. >> i'm get to the question of costs in a minute but i want to bring senator hatch into this, the president praised you in his
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speech the fact you work with ted kennedy to pass children's health care. and, s-chip as it is known is government health insurance. so, if you can accept government health insurance for s-chip, why can't you accept some form of it, for all of the rest of america. >> the original s-chip bill was a block grant where the states rant and that is why it works and if we did that in federal health care, i think we would be a lot better off and we'd have 50 state laboratories, developing their own plans for their any demographics and, massachusetts, is not utah and you can say that about every other stated and we are talking about 306 million people and basic they think their health insurance is better than anything they can get and do we need reform? yes. but think about educt, 47 millie and the president said 30 million and deduct the 6 million
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who basically work for companies and provide health insurance and don't buy it and deduct the 11 million people who really qualify for chips and/or medicaid, deduct the 9 million who earn over $75,000 a year and can afford it and the 6 million undocumented workers, it really comes down to 15 million people and we will throw out a whole system for 306 million people, for 15 million people and we could subsidize and help without ruining the system and we'll save money, we'll save taxes and have less spending. we'll have greater choices, come on, we are living in the real world here. >> let me go to another issue, and, i think we are all talking about that and that is cost. the president said the huge new government program will pay for itself. let's watch. >> president barack obama: i will not sign it if it adds one dime to the deficit. now or in the future. period.
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>> chris: senator conrad, you are chairman of the senate budget committee an let's lod l at the numbers, the congressional budget office projects the main house bill will add $239 billion to the deficit the first ten years and that includes ten years of taxes and only six years of full services, and the lewin group, a private group looked at the second ten years of the plan when it is fully running and said it would add a trillion dollars more to the deficit and senator conrad how do you get from a trillion dollars plus to not adding a dime to the deficit. >> because that plan, is a plan out of one committee in the house and it will not pass. the only thing that has a prospect of passing is what is happening in the senate, in the finance committee, three democrats and three republicans, and they have been given the responsibility to come up with a proposal for our colleagues, and the proposal that we are developing is fully paid for. and bends the cost curve in the right way and extends coverage
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to 94% of the american people. not everybody. but, 94% is a big improvement over where we are now. dramatically, improves the insurance market, because it reforms it an improves the delivery system by providing big incentives to adopt the best practices that are out there, and those systems that we know are working, like intermountain in utah which is outstanding -- >> let me talk -- talk about this gang of six, six leaders, you are part of it on the senate fa finance committee, will you reach a compromise republicans and democrats can sign onto. >> we hope to and meet again on monday and have people working all weekend and a number of us worked through the weekend and we think we are close to an agreement and i want to repeat the agreement that we have, the congressional budget office told us, is fully paid for. and bends the cost curve in the right way and extends coverage to 94% of this people. >> chris: let me bring senator hatch into this.
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first of all, do you believe they have a deal that will pay for itself? and, secondly, the president says, well, look, even fit doesn't, we'll have a deficit trigger, so if we don't get h savings we think we will from medicare we'll automatically cut savings. why isn't that enough. >> of course, that is just -- pushes us into another plan, each more so the federal government can control it and look, you said there will not be an increase in taxes and how about the 25% of seniors on medicare advantage, they'll cut them -- medicare advantage by $130 billion, as part of raising revenues. and they will have an employer mandate at least a form of an employer mandate, that basically will hurt low income employees. and they have an individual mandate that, if you earn more that -- more than 300% of the poverty level you will pay up to $3800 and if that isn't an increase in taxes i don't know what is and go on and on, how even with all of the work that i give my fellow senators credit for in the finance committee it
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is hardly -- and talking about almost a trillion dollars in spending but that is only for seven years because it doesn't trigger until 2013, one year after the presidential election, of 2012 and kind of interesting, isn't it? all i can say is i don't believe they'll have republican support on this type of an approach and i can tell you now people all over the country don't wanted this. >> chris: all right, you have mentioned medicare. and brings us to the president's claim that he can squeeze hundreds of billions of dollars out of medicare without in any way endangering or cutting services to seniors. let's watch. >> president barack obama: the only thing this plan would eliminate is the hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud as well as unwarranted subsidies in medicare, that go to insurance companies. >> chris: senator mccaskill do you really believe it's possible that you can take hundreds of billions of dollars out of medicare, without cutting the
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services for seniors? >> i don't know how many ads you see for scooters on cable tv but i see a lot of them and those are scooters paid for by this american people and a lot go to folks who don't need scooters and it's one example of many examples, where we are paying for services or things instead of outcomes, and, i think it is very important that we start focusing on the patients and what is good for the patient rather than five or ten or eight cat scans in one week so docs and hospitals pay for the machines and there is lots we can do without cutting the services and, frankly medicare advantage, with all due respect, to orin we transferred a lot of taxpayer money to insurance companies, and it has not brought down the cost of medicare, and it hasn't -- >> senator mccaskill, let me ask you, this is a question i get a lot on e-mail, if there is already hundreds of billions of dollars of waste and fraud in medicare, why would we want to trust government with an even bigger role in health care?
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>> you got that right. >> part of the problem is, is that we have had -- the private sector come in and get congress to do things and a great example is medicare-d, for gosh sakes where were the fiscal conservatives, five or six years ago? when the republican congress -- >> we should point out the prescription drug benefit. >> a billion dollar program without any way of paying for it. that is a good xarm of where we've transferred money from taxpayers to private insurance companies and it has not produced the kind of results the american people deserve. >> senator graham. >> we need pay for that. >> chris: let me bring in senator graham, democratic congressman jim cooper one of the so-called blue dogs who actually teaches health care policy says between private and public health care we waste about $700 billion a year. so it should be easy to find these kinds of savings. >> well, no one found them before, and, the only way you'll find them now is to do something that no one has been willing to do and that is get in here and change the system and you will
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not find $300 billion in medicare/medicaid savings, the trigger idea that at a certain point in time, we'll stop spending and go back and cut things, has never worked anywhere else, and the trigger is a phony-baloney idea and they said the same thing in tennessee and we'll make system efficient and pay for ten-care and listen what the governor of tennessee said about that and i voted against medicare part d for the reason we don't pay fors things around here and the widen senate bill, 7 republicans and 7 democrats is revenue neutral and would like to talk to the president about it but one thing we learned from the show today, the house bill is dead because the politics matters and the public option is unacceptable and if we kill down the -- the house bill, let's sit down and do something reasonable but it's not reasonable to assume we'll cut medicare and medicaid costs to cover other people's insurance and get $3 billion
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savings and have a trigger that works in washington and neither makes sense to me. >> chris: senator? >> look, we have negotiated with medicare providers, hospitals, nursing homes, home health, hundreds of billions of dollars of savings. why are they willing to come forward and negotiate for those savings? because they know with more people covered, they are going to have more business, and they will have fewer circumstances in which they don't get compensated, don't get paid, and so, we have gotten hundreds of billions of dollars of savings from medicare providers because they know they'll get more business. >> chris: we are almost -- >> can i add something? can i add something, what about the doctor -- will we get it goes to infect and it is supposed to and we never let it go into effect and that will happen with the other cuts. >> chris: we have really, less than a minute left and i'm sorry. senator graham i -- senator hatch i want to ask senator
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graham one final question and we're about to get joe wilson on the show, should he apologize to his fellow south carolinians on the house floor and end the controversy? >> well, i think joe needs to make it clear that what he did was wrong, he has apologized to the president and that is enough for me and, the president accepted it but i would like to see the matter end, joe is a good man and made a mistake and don't give up on fighting health care and what he said was inappropriate and it needs to come to the ends for the good of joe, south carolina and the country and i'll leave it up to his good counsel as to what to do next and he's apologized to the president and i appreciate that very much. >> chris: we'll have to thank you all, thank you all, for coming in today and joining us and we'll see how the fight over health care reform shakes out, over the next few weeks. up next, our exclusive interview with congressman joe wilson on the shout heard around the world. back after this break. they said it would never last.
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>> chris: here now to talk about his outburst during president obama's speech is congressman joe wilson. welcome to "fox news sunday. >> let's get to it, house democrats have changed their minds and decided they are pa paefpaef blank they will formale you. what are you going to do, sir? >> i'm a civil person and i believe in civility on the floor. additionally on >> wednesday night, i had just completed a town hall meeting and the largest congressional taunt howell meeting in the cyst of south carolina and 1700 people in columbia and 1500 in lexington and 1500 in beaufort
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and 1200 and people were passionate and they do not wanted government control of health care. and, addition -- and so wednesday night i had one of my sons said, was a town hall moment and after the speech i -- i taped the speech. >> chris: we'll get to the -- wednesday night and i wanted to ask you, first of all, what will you do this week. >> i will not apologize again, i apologized to the president on wednesday night. and i was advised then, that, thank you, now let's get onto a civil discussion of the issues and i've apologized one time and it was accepted by the president and by the vice president who i know and i have not apologized to him again and in fact i have been proven correct on the issue of citizen verification and, in fact, the senate adopted it on friday and then, i'm grateful on friday night the white house has now -- will now include it -- >> let's, we'll get to all of that, a promise, let's get to the question of the apology, you
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say you have apologized twice. >> no, no, once. >> chris: issued a statement and called the white house. >> yes. >> chris: why not apologize to your house colleagues? they say you broke the rules. >> my view is that the apology to the president think white house, his acceptance, the vice president's acceptance, people know my civility and know this was a one-time event, and, it was out of frustration and i believe in the truth and what i heard was not truth. >> how will you feel, that means they'll vote and they certainly will vote to rebuke you, some form of discipline and how will you feel when they make you stand in the well of the house and house speaker nancy pelosi disciplines you. >> my view it is politics an exactly what the middle eastern people don't want to see. do not want to hear. they want to get as -- the white house said fine, let's get to the issues and discuss the issues and the bankrupting costs and the threat to senior sinn s
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sinners. >> chris: politics, the democrats are paying politics. >> the democrats are paying politics and is a way to divert attention from the bill that would cost $1.6 million according to the national federation of independent business and a diversion from people looking at the bill and the concerns about this bill. >> chris: let's go back to wednesday night and let's show the moment as it happened, the president of the united states was addressing congress. here it is. >> president barack obama: the reforms i am proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally. >> you lie! >> chris: what do you think when you see that. >> well, i have respect for the president. i have respect for the office of the president. i would never do something like that again. but -- >> you did do it. >> yes, and i just -- i felt so provoked because i am on committee, on the committee, of education and labor and i know the amendments that were on ways
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and means -- at ways and means and energy and commerce, the democrats voted down, for citizenship verification and i knew what he said was not true and i read the bill and all -- >> let me ask you, we'll get unto the details in a minute. do you think when the president was saying what he said there, that he was lying. >> i believe he was misstating the facts. >> chris: you didn't say that. you said, you lie. >> i would have said it a different way if i had time and i respect again the president, but, what he said was not accurate and that is why i'm glad, that now they've agreed to having citizen verification on friday. >> chris: now, in today's "new york times," i have to bring it up to you, maureen dowd says the shout she believes, the shout was based on race and wrote this: wilson clearly did not like being lectured and even rebuked by the brainy black president presiding over the majestic chamber. and question, is mr. obama's race an issue. >> no. no. hey i respect the president and
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actually there is a relationship in a way, his wife -- her family is from georgetown and my family is from next-door, and i have a great respect for the obama family. >> chris: afterwards as we said, you issued a written statement, seemed to be an apology and called the white house and certainly they -- there apologized and since then suggested, look i was basically following the directions of the republican party, and you also, if i may put up this video. take a look: >> on these issues, i will not be muzzled. i will speak up, and speak loudly, against this risky plan. >> chris: congressman, if you are fund-raising off the incidental, are you really sorry? >> i would never do this, on purpose. but, i have been by national democrats, by, named the number one target for the elections next year and i am -- and i appreciate the overwhelming response from
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people, to be involved, and i will not be muzzled. i will be speaking on behalf of the american people, but i will be doing it civilly. >> chris: since wednesday you have raised more than a million dollars in campaign funds, so, quite frankly has your likely opponent. do you think this helped you or hurt you in your home district. >> in the district, it has been overwhelming. people have been loving, actually, and very wonderful, calling my wife, roxanne, our sons, our -- our whole family and people are just, it has been -- our office is overwhelmed with phone calls an letters and contribution and i'm grateful for each. >> chris: let's get to the issue that got you riled up and i promised we'd do that. are illegals banned from the president's reform plan or not? let's take a look at house bill 3200. perhaps the main house bill. under the title, no federal payment for undocumented aliens it says, nothing in the subtitle shall allow federal payments for
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affordability credits, or subsidies, on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the united states, and congressman, if you read that, wasn't the president right and you wrong. >> no, because there is no enforcement and that is why they've agreed, and so did the senate on saturday -- friday, adopt enforcement provisions, and then, the white house itself on friday, has said it will be changed to have enforcement provisions, and i've read the bill, and i was familiar with the amendment, and i knew it didn't have any meaning at all. >> chris: since the incident, and you are quite righted, the white house has said the president is going to put even stronger enforcement measures in his plan, to make sure that the illegals do not participate, the senate finance committee has said it will do that as well. do you feel that your outburst is responsible for that? >> i do think, i brought the issue up, yes, i do and i am grateful, even for recognition, in the "new york times." as they discussed this
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particular issue, and it was -- the lead editorial in the "wall street journal," friday. about truth and what was in the bill. i think i've really -- i think -- and i didn't mean to do this but i believe i certainly brought attention to all of the issues. but again, when -- what is crucial to me is jobs and this bill will cost jobs at a time of high unemployment. >> chris: let's go back and you say you will not apologize again and that means that you are going to be brought to the house floor sometime this week in front of all of your colleagues, and stand there in the house floor, and the well of the chamber, and speaker nancy pelosi will read out a discipline, rebuke of you. will that be tough for you, will you feel proud, embarrassed. >> it will be tough because i respect my colleagues and i respect civility and i support civility and i -- this is a -- as my son said, a town hall moment but i respect civility and promote it and in every way, and particularly on the house floor.
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>> chris: but you are not sorry you did it in the sense that you think you did the wrong thing. >> well, i did. i apologized to the president, one time. and was accepted by the president, vice president, and and so i, i believe that the american people know that i am a civil person, and a person who respects the institution of the house, and i've apologized to the president and i believe that it is sufficient. >> chris: congressman wilson thank you so much for coming in today. please come back, sir. >> i look forward to it. thank you. >> has been an interesting week for you. a few interesting days already. >> yes. >> chris: up next, those tea party protesters come to the nation's capitol but did the march on washington resonate through the halls of congress? our sunday regulars weigh in, after the break. they said it would never last.
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>> we are in the battle, lane, for our pleladies and gentlemer predom against our government and it is time to take america back. >> that was a taste of the tea party protesters, tens of thousands of whom marched on washington saturday and made their voices heard on the national mall. it is time once again for our sunday regulars and, yes, the gang is all here. brit hume, fox news senor political analyst. maria
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liasson. brit, welcome back from your summer vacation. we missed you and we will put you right back to work. what do you make of the taxpayer march on d.c.? what does it say to the white house. >> regard theless of what the polls say about who favors what, almost all the intensity is what the people resisting the president and democrats in congress on this issue. even i would say congressman wilson whom you had a very interesting interview with, you see what kind of a man he is. this is a man most of us had not heard of, i think it is fair to say, in the country and to many of us in the media. he is a pretty quiet guy. his outburst, these town hall meetings with held with the same sort of what you saw on the mall yesterday. what you add it up to all the intensity on the issue. and that is something that all these blew do blue dog democrad
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others have to consider. we are dealing with an eleg tore rate the opponents of whom will vote against you on other issues as well. >> mara, do you agree, this isn't just healthcare. i think we are talking about the whole obama agenda with a lot of big government and a lot of big spending. to you think all the intensity is with the opponents. >> i think when you look at polling you see the thing that has changed the most as the president's numbers have gone down is the intensity of the opposition has gone up dramatically, i think that is true. what we still don't know and i think we will know soon when there is an actual plan with details that people can look at whether this is a small but extremely intense opposition to this or whether this is a big broad reaction to the government's interventions in all sorts of parts of the economy. and i'm not sure yet what it
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is. there is no doubt that the intensity is very fierce against this and some blue dog democrat letts will be worriedt it. the president moved healthcare farther to the center and made it more comfortable for democrats to be able to. >> chris: i want to stay on the so-called tea party movement, if you will. is it all good for the gop or a risk for republicans where some of the extreme protesters could turn off moderates, turn off the center. >> there is always that risk. people are excited about a serious piece of legislation. this is a huge effort to transform something very important to people's lives. this isn't a tax cut. the tax cut you ram it through and make some squirrely arguments. this is healthcare. that this thing is being rammed
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through is what really offends a lot of people. i talked to people that really liked the town hall meeting. they feel this is their one chance to stand up and say wait a second you haven't even read your own bill. it will be interesting to see an actual plan with the details. we haven't seen that. and what do they intend to do. there is no plan yet with details. ha has to be passed in a month. it has never happened in american history. something that will change every family's life that affects the country. the biggest piece of domestic legislation, 25 years, 35 years and they wanted to jam this through before the august recess. that is really wrong. i think that is what has most upset people. >> i think that it is not jamming through to the point that it is democracy at work when people are having debate and discussion about the particulars of the bill. that is the good of people turning out in large numbers yesterday. people who were saying, you know, they have specific
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concerns. i'm all for that. i think people should be involved in the country but the question is if you don't know what you are talking about exactly how can you have a protest because the big criticism against president obama and i think this is totally legitimate is that he has not spoken out what he wants and even in the speech there were details missing. at this point, what are you protesting against? >> chris: you don't think. >> it is just antiobama. >> chris: you don't think we have a strong sense of what the president is calling for. >> now, we have a clearer sense after the speech on wednesday that he wants everybody to either be covered, buy your own insurance or be covered or pay a penalty and he wants employers to do that and we understand that he favors a public policy but he is not willing to let it block final
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passage. there were passionate people yesterday, but i don't think that is what they were out here about. i think they were still talking about death panels. >> chris: is that what you think this is about, death panels? unreasoned opposition? >> i don't. i think the core elements of the proposal including its cost have been a matter of record for some time, there are varying estimates. but there are no estimates that say that any of these measures are not going to add to the deficit. senator conrad is planning on introducing a bill that won't do that but he hasn't done that yet. so what you have is the possibility of thentry of the federal government into the insurance market which worries a lot of people. it is not hard to understand why people believe that the so-called public option will lead to employers by the thousands, maybe millions abandoning the healthcare coverage they now provide, paying the fine which will be
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less and leaving it toward more and more people getting the insurance from the government and towards a single payor system. people don't want that. they are scared of the cost and they don't like the substance of what they are hear asking. they don't like the details they have heard and they don't like them a lot. and i think the striking thing about the president's speech, chris, was that there was very little outreach to the center and to the right on this issue. it seemed to me what he was saying was he was trying to keep things together in the house of representatives where it has been thought that a bill would pass. >> chris: it seems to me that what the president was trying to do was not -- he doesn't expect to get many if any republican votes. he is trying to bridge the divide in his own party and reassure independents and seniors. on that basis how did he do? >> i think he did a lot of good for his own party.
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they only think they can get one, maybe two republicans i think. >> in the senate. >> in the senate. i think he signaled to the moderates of the senate this is not going to have a public option in if and to blue dogs in the house. i think on that count he went far. i think he did rev up his base by being pugnaceous to republicans. he threw a couple of olive branches to the republicans, there were ideas of theirs that theses adopted and that tells republicans look, i'm still a bipartisan guy. the biggest black hole in there is he didn't say how he was requesting to pay for a good half of the cost of this and that s what people are worried about. they don't believe it is possible to cover 30 million more people. >> if i could say one thing he is leading his party off the cliff and speaker pelosi will lead her party off the cliff as
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they try to rebuke joe wilson. you are leading the party off the cliff i think and i hope a lot of democrats slow down and take a look at this bill. >> chris: we have to take a break here. when we come back, are democrats ready to give up on afghanistan eight years after the 9/11 attacks were launched from that country? our panel's thoughts after the break. they said it would never last.
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right here our own military footprint the more our enemies can seek to drive a wedge
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between us. >> i don't think it is a suspects. >> senator karl levin and speaker nancy pelosi this week just part of the growing opposition in the democratic party to the president possibly sending more u.s. troops to afghanistan. wwe're back now with brit, mar, bill and juan. if the president decides to send tivs o tens of thousands e u.s. troops to afghanistan as u.s. commanders on the ground want, how much resistance will be face? >> he sent 21,000 this year and we are now up to about i think 68,000 americans there. the whole question is what is this intended to accomplish and for how long? senator russ feingold said let's set a time frame. >> will it simply mean we are
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entrenched in a war where victory seems distant and difficult. at least an elections, we have see the fraud and the election. i was at the white house this weekend and you hear language talking about this being the war of necessity, not the war of choice. this is the one that we have got to win in order to stop al-qaeda and the taliban from taking root. >> chris: brings up an interesting question. speaking to the veterans of foreign wars, president obama called afghanistan a war of necessity. this is an issue i know that you have talked about a lot since he became president. do you think barack obama will take on the left wing, the antiwar wing base of his party on afghanistan? >> i think it is doubtful that he will but listen to what senator levin says. it sounds very familiar if you remember what democrats and other critics were saying at the time of the surge in iraq.
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what we learned i think from iraq is that a counter terrorism strategy, a counter insurgency strategy relies initially on the suppression of the violence and in that atmosphere other good things can take place. that is job one. if you don't have enough troops to do it you can't do it and you can't succeed. the question for barack obama is democratic resistance or not, it he willing to fail in afghanistan and i worry that he may be. >> i don't. >> chris: what do you think about specifically this question because so far the press hasn't shown a lot of stomach when it comes to taking on the left wing of his party on a variety of issues? is gentlemenning to do that in afghanistan? he has the marker war of necessity. >> is the left going to be in full revolt against tim? i don't believe that is going to happen either. i think karl levin is saying
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things like let's not send more troops until we see if the afghan troops can pick up. he said it is the frontline in the war on terror and say george bush made a mistake andrew the frontline in the wrong country 86 don't think that he can afford to leave afghanistan to the taliban. i just don't. >> i think he is probably going to accept the recommendation of general patrious, admiral mullen and secretary gates that we can't simply win. we have to go onshore and that wires more surgcy. when -- when you make that decision like nancy pelosi wants to get out and senator levin wants to see us gradually get out. youngsters anoa who will be supporting president obama? john mccain. he has been to afghanistan nine times. his son served in iraq.
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he is not that partisan. quite the contrary, i have been saying to my conservative friendsesome with all of the ales in afghanistan we have to fight and win there. i think president obama will do the right thing. his chief of staff rahm emanuel is nervous about it. political operatives saying don't be lin son johnson again. >> chris: i want to ask you, what is at take in afghanistan. juan brings up the point it appears we had rampant election fraud in the election last month. what are the the chances of a peaceful viable state are pretty good. and the cost of defeat is just
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unacceptable. the idea that the taliban would drive us out of the place in which 9/11 was launch the because we don't have the will and intelligence to fight and win, i think the consequences around the world, throughout the middle east, the islamic world, the message that would go out everywhere would be disasterrous for us. >> your message is not consistent among the conservative side of the argument. there are some conservatives very much opposed. let's not make this into democrats and liberals. i think you are out of step here with president obama. president obama has taken on his left wing, in fact, sending more troops away to afghanistan. and in bombing, the consistent bombing, the drones over pakistan. i don't think there is any question this is a man engaged in fighting a war on terror, whatever you want to call it. to say he is weak kneed or wimpish on the war effort is not fair. >> chris: i didn't say he was one. i agree with you and your point
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is well taken. impies won't send 9 extra troops and he will see it through. >> the key thing is he wants this shower to be resolved before you get into a primary process going into the next presidential race. is fair to say. >> chris: thank you, panel. see you next week. good to have you back, mr. hume. check out the latest edition of panel plus where our panel sins the discussion on shortly after the show ends. also check out our blog where we have a significant number of interesting features. they said it would never last. but it's been two months, and you're still going strong. glade lasting impressions. two fragrances alternate to keep things... fresh and exciting day after day.
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>> as president obama pushed congress the other night on health care reform, there were all kinds of forces at work behind the scenes. and none is more for mid dibble than our power player of the week. >> i think it starts the final phase of this process, which is taking votes. >> that was andy stern shall the morning after the president's speech to congress. stern is head of the service employees international union or seiu.
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with 2 million members it's the fastest growing union in america, which makes him one of labor's most powerful voices. >> there are 435 people down the street that have to make the choice about the future of our countries. >> stern is using that voice to push for government-run health insurance, but seems to understand why the president is hedging. >> were you disappointed what the president said about the public option? >> he is not the dictator here, he's part of the american process. there will be a vote in the senate on the public option and we'll see. >> stern knows all about votesen he showed us the war room where two dozen people mobilized workers across the country. >> so if even if congressman x is wavering. >> we want them to know that people are watching what they do. >> seiu, but represents health care sectors, service employees, private security guards and janitors worked hard to elect democrats. they spent 71 million dollars
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putting 100,000 volunteers in the field and making 13 million phone calls. and it paid off. >> how much clout does seiu have? >> i think we're heard. >> if you make a phone call to top white house officials, does it get answered? >> i feel we get access. >> while we were talking nurses at seiu were at the white house, helping the president sell health care reform. >> i want to say thank you. >> andy stern was a social services worker in 1973 when he got involved in the union. >> i was the last one in the room at a meeting, they were serving pizza i was elected unanimously as assistant shop steward. here i am. >> he sees it as a way to help people lead better lives and his current effort is part of that. the fight for health care reform is personal for you. >> yes, it is. >> seven years ago his daughter kathy died from
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complications after spinal surgery. >> do you think about cassie often during this debate? >> she'd be 21 next week and i really think about, what would have happened if we had a health care system that really could take people a lot more effectively. she'd be with us. >> stern says that unions to a global economy, but the base admission is the same. >> it's about seeing millions of people have a chance to live their dreams, if it gets me up every day excited and believing again that americans can face the challenges in the 21st century and build a new economy that makes dreams come true. >> stern says after health care reform, he acknowledges they may have to find other way to make union organizing easier without taking away the skreecret ballot of workers, hae a great week and we'll see you next fox news


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