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tv   FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace  FOX News  October 3, 2010 2:00pm-3:00pm EDT

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don't miss the exclusive debate with kentucky candidates rand paul and jack conway. i'm shannon bream. thanks for watching fox news, captioned by closed captioning services, inc. >> chris: i'm chris wallace reporting from louisville, kentucky and this is "fox news sunday." the kentucky senate showdown. with 30 days 'til the election, it is one of the nation's most closely watched races. republican rand paul one of the original tea party candidates who opposes government intervention in the private sector. and democrat jack conway, the state's attorney general who supports much of the obama aagain that. paul and conway in their only national debate on "fox news sunday." then a key player leaves the white house. we'll ask our sunday panel what departure meansepart your for the mid terms and the president seeking reelection.
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as mr. obama tries to whip up the democratic base and congress leaves town with plenty of unfinished business we go on the trail all right now on "fox news sunday." and hello again from fox news. today on the road in louisville, kentucky. the home of the most famous horse race in the world, the iconic louisville slugger baseball bat and now one of the hottest senate races in november. we are in the studios of wdrb-tved our fox affiliate in louisville and joined by the two contenders for the kentucky senate seat. democrat jack conway and republican rand paul. thanks for joining us on "fox news sunday." >> good to be with you. >> take a minute to lay out what you think is at stake in the race. what is the choice for kentucky voters. dr. paul why don't you start? >> i think i'm concerned about the debt that we are piling on. mountains and mountains of
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debt. i'm concerned about president obama adding trillions of dollars of entitlement programs and the president adding or allowing the largest tax hike in our history and concerned about president obama foisting cap and trade on kentucky which will be a disaster for our coal jobs. it is really about the presidents it agenda. i think it is wrong for america and i will stand up against president obama's agenda and i think that is what people in kentucky want. >> chris: attorney general conway saying question what is at stake in the race. what is the close for kentucky voter -- what is the choice for kentucky voters? >> first of all, chris, welcome to kentucky. the special interests in washington have enough people standing up for them. as attorney general i have stood up for the people in kentucky and taking on pharmaceutical companies when they have lied to the medicare program and taken on oil companies that have gouged us and any one that would do wrong
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by the the people of kentucky. there is a real clear choice between someone who has taken on the drugs issue and someone who is a says drugs aren't a pressing issue. someone who stands up to criminals and someone who says nonviolent crimes shouldn't about' crime. someone who says we will stand up and protect medicare and one who says in medicare we need a $200,000 deductible. >> chris: on the campaign trail you have called dr. paul crazy. your campaign ads call him out of touch. why. in. >> i think he is out of touch with the values of mainstream kentuckians. we need to talk about our values a little more. we value inclusivity. we have 12,000 new disabled vets since 9/11 here in the commonwealth of kentucky. and i don't think it is appropriate to stand up and say that you are against the americans with disabilities act in that environment.
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i'm not saying dr. paul is crazy. i think some of his ideas are out of the mainstream and out of touch with the values of normal kentuckians. >> chris: you say very little about attorney general con way on the campaign trail and nothing about him in your adds. now, is your chance, sir. >> we are waiting for him to catch up in the polls and then we may refer to him more. what he needs to do is either defend his president or run away. so far he is running away from president obama and the agenda. he supports obama care. he supported repealing the tax cuts before he was against it, before he was before it again. cap and trade he has been on both sides of the issue. kentuckians are not going to tolerate somebody who is ambivalent on cap and trade. iting be a disaster to our economy and these are the issues of the day and the things that people want to talk about. people concerned about jobs and the economy. if we pass cap and trade it will be a disaster to kentucky's economy and to kentucky jobs.
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>> chris: let's talk and you kind of led in the direction that i wanted to head in this debate. let's talk about jobs and the economy which i think we would all agree are the key issues for voters here and across the country. unemployment in kentucky is now 10%. in fact, it has been below that figure of 10% only one month in the last year and a half. attorney general conway, you say and this picks up on what dr. paul was saying that you would have voted for the stimulus. you would have voted for tarp $700 billion for wall street. and you would have voted for obama's healthcare reform. so, if you had been in the senate the last two years you would have supported most of president obama's agenda. >> some of president obama's agenda. listen, these are up a hypotheticals. i have been the attorney general in kentucky in the last two years. the stimulus, a third went to tax cuts. no one talks about it. a third went to keeping the jobs of police and firefighters and a third went to shovel ready projects where they
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haven't done a great a job. actually, i wouldn't have voted for the the bailouts. there were not enough account act in them. we had people getting bonuses after get getting the bailouts. on healthcare, we have 654,000 kentuckians getting healthcare for the first time as a result of this bill. i had a friend who has had a kidney transplant tells me how hard it is to get cover with a preexisting condition. i would like to allow medicare to engage in bulk purchasing. i'm not for a $200,000 deductible and taking the healthcare back to the preworld war ii system which is what rand paul is on the record as having said. i would like to fix healthcare and he wants to repeal it and that is a stark difference. >> chris: you take me in the direction of what i want to ask rand paul. this a barbecuing bas a free fg
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debate. kentucky received almost $3 billion in stimulus money to bring to records to the government 17,000 jobs were saved or created. what are you saying for those people, fend for your sals? >> if you look at the labor statistics we have lost 17,000 jobs since the stimulus package. it was $413,000 per job. more importantly, we have to ask, where does the money come from? jack acts like the money is for free, go and get it from santa claus in washington. the money is not for free. the money has to be borrowed. right now we are borrowing to the tune of $800 billion from china, $700 billion from japan. the list goes on and on. that amount of debt is threatening the foundations of our economy. it is incredibly dangerous. it is incredibly foolhearty to have a trillion dollars stimulus and another trillion dollars into obama care. government kno notoriously
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underestimate the cost of things. it could turn into a $3 trillion bill. my health insurance went up 15% since obama's passed -- since obama care was passed. what is going to happen is it will hurt the economy and hurt, kentucky. >> i'm proprosing a 20% tax credit for the cost of creatin a new job. it is important that america is not just growing but providing the incentives for the private sector to grow us out of the recession. the government bailed out big banks and they have come down hard on the small community banks. >> you say you want new lending from small banks but support the banking regulation bill. the problem was with government the backs. fannie mae and fre freddie mac
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caused it. whateverry bank in kentucky will tell you it wasn't our problem. no banks failed in kentucky but it is harder to get a loan in kentucky now. >> chris: i want to move on to something else but it gets to the issue of regulation. dr. paul you say that you believe the government should stay out of the private sector. here is what you said on the fox business network last january. get rid of regulations. get the epa out of our coal business down here. get osha out of our small businesses. question, is there no role for government in protecting our environment and making our work place safer? >> i think it is a combination of federal, state and local regulations. and what i would say is which way do we want to shift the debate? do we want more federal or more local? and there is always a little bit of both. what i would say is we now have an epa that is writing rules. the epa cent out a press release and said you know what, if congress doesn't pass greenhouse emissions testing we will do it on our own. i think the arrogance of
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unelected bureaucrats to say that they create law needs to come to an end. we need to say to unelected bureaucrats you do not make regulations and you do not write regulations. >> chris: i want to give attorney general conway 30 seconds to respond. >> i'm against cap and trade and always have been. >> that is not true. >> chris: you supported the waxman markey cap and trade bill in 2009. >> no, i didn't. >> reporter: the editorial said you flip flopped. >> i said i'm going to protect coal and electricity. i did not support waxman and markey and even took on the epa. i filed a lawsuit against the epa when they were doing what dr. paul was describing. don't read the bowling green news. look at my actions. federal mine safety regulations, chris is are written in the blood of coal miners. rand paul says he wants to take federal mine safety regulation back to the 1930s.
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we were losing 1500 miners a year. we need the federal government. >> chris: wait a second. >> go back to cap and trade. in june of last year you issued a statement that the paducah sun reported yet another newspaper in kentucky as well as the careerer all reported that you issued a statement saying you supported the bill and you were confident could be reformed. i met with you in the judge executive meeting and you said you wanted to be part of the negotiated compromise and you could be part of fixing cap and trade and making cap and trade work. >> i have been consistent in my position saying i will stand up for kentucky coal and keep the electricity rates low and i took on the epa when they were trying to do this outside of the legislative process. >> chris: i'm going to turn to the bush tax cuts. here is what you u you told the
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louisville courier in april. now, you want to extend all of them. >> i was talking about the special interest that allowed companies to shift jobs overseas. that is what i was focused on at the time of that interview. raising taxes we shouldn't be doing it at the time of recession. with 10% unemployment and capital frozen on the sidelines that is no place to be raising taxes. i was for the bush tax cuts in 2002 when i was running. >> you were for them before you were against them before you were for them again. at the farm bureau debate you said you were bringing back the death tax. the tax on people just for dying. you said you u wouldn't take a 55% tax on estates. you said 45% and you had some exemptions. >> chris: dr. paul i want to ask you a question. you have been consistent that you wanted to extend all of the
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bush tax cuts but that would add $4 trillion to the deficit. you said at the very beginning that the first issue you mentioned was the national debt. if you sore concerned about the national debt how are you going pay for a $4 trillion loss of revenue from the tax cuts? >> i think you look at whose money it is. it is the people's money who earned the money and we give up some to pay taxes. i'm not seeing it as a cost of government. i will immediately introduce bills to reduce spending. i think we should offset it. i'm not opposed to introducing bills to reduce spending. >> chris: no way you will get $4 trillion in spending cuts. >> i will introduce legislation that will balance the budget. we will have a balanced budget amendment introduced in i'm elected and also a balanced budget that will be introduced if i'm elected. what i would say about the bush tax cuts is businesse businesse made calculations and these or five or ten years. businesses tide predictability.
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if you take away the bush tax cuts and allow obama to have the largest tax increase in our history it will be a disaster to the economy and i'm glad jack changed his position on this because it will be helpful. >> chris: let me ask you both. everybody has to say we have to get the spending down. people don't want to talk specifically what they want to do. if you want to get serious and i'm directing this to both of you about the national debt you have to do something about entitlements. give you both a chance before the election. tell me of a single benefit you would reduce. any eligibility you would change. a tax you would increase on either social security or medicare to deal with the the entitlement prices. >> let me -- imate one that has been more specific in this particular area in this campaign. dr. paul talks about having a federal budget balanced all the way next year. he is just not going to tell anybody how he is going to do it this year. to do what he wants to do would be a 40% cut and take the benefit from $1,100 at social security to $700.
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i think we need medicare bulk purchasing. it was wrong during the healthcare debate to take pharma out of it. let medicare negotiate for lower prices. that would save $200 billion. >> chris: they tried to do it and the drug companies stiffed them. >> we need medicare fraud units in each and every state. there h is a lot of fraud. $100 billion in fraud. you don't need to be handling out of washington. i have taken on medicaid fraud. >> chris: are you willing to reduce the benefit. >> let me say one thing. $130 billion that can be done. the pay as you go system and a bipartisan debt commission to come back with recommendations. >> chris: dr. paul anything specific you are willing to say i will change entitlements this way. >> you don't do anything to people receiving social security and medicare. we have the baby boom generation getting ready to retire and we will double the
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amount of retirees and to put our head in the sand and say we will keep borrowing more money will not work. there will have to be changes. for the younger generation changes in eligibility. and they started talking about this. >> chris: you would raise the retirement age. >> for younger people, yes. for younger people, longevity is out there. the average life expectancy in the 30s was 65. >> chris: and higher deductibles for premiums. >> eligibility changes for the younger people. all younger people if they are honest and not demagogue the issue will admit that yucker people have to have different requirements. >> chris: you say you want to repeal obama care and replace if with what you call market driven principles. more than 600,000, you said earler, attorney general conway, 600,000 people in
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kentucky are now uninsured. how will they get coverage under your plan? >> one is ex-pec expense and ae access. a third made more than $50,000 a year and weren't getting it because of the expense. we didn't address expense. a third were are poor and eligible for medicaid but not receiving medicaid because they were not filling out the paper work. a third were illegal aliens. i don't think we should be giving illegal aliens healthcare and what is what obama care. >> chris: no, that is not true. >> it says you can ask if they are illegal i wills and the democrats kept shooting it down. >> chris: attorney general conway, you support the healthcare plan but now
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premiums are going up. according to studies millions of americans won't be able to keep their coverage and spending, total national spending according to studies is projected to go up $300 billion the next decade. that is fixing the problem? >> not necessarily. i think the bill needs to be improved upon. that is a key difference between myself and rand. i talked about 200 billion north dakota savings from medicare bulk purchasing. find ways to control costs. preexisting conditions. people shouldn't be denied because they have a preexisting condition 19,000 kentucky kids staying on insurance as a result of changes to the law. 45,000 small businesses getting assistance with premiums. those are good things. he wants to repeal all of that. and i tell you what, i have got a friend and she is a retired bank teller she is on a fixed income. she can't afford a $2,000 deductible in medicare. that is not an option for her
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and not an option for me if i go to the united states senate. these things have have to be fixed and we have to watch the costs going forward. >> chris: let's turn to the issue of illegal drugs which you both referenced earlier which has become an issue in this campaign. dr. paul, in august you said this about drug abuse in kentucky. and let's put it on the screen. i don't think it as real pressing issue. you also said drug enforcement should be funded at the state level but what about operation unite, a federal program which has spent $16 million over the last two years to fight drug abuse in the state of kentucky. would you shut that down? >> as a physician and father ever three teenaged boys i'm always concerned about drug abuse and when they quoted me it was actually a misquote. what i said was i don't think people are concerned about where the funding comes from. they want the problem to be tackled. there is a debate between how much is federal and how much is state. all i said is like most
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problems the more local control the better. the more the decisions are made by sheriffs and local communities the better chance of fixing the problem. >> chris: kentucky congressman rogers set up operation unit, $16 million the last two years drug problem in kentucky. are you going say no, i don't want that money. >> no, what i would say is here is the problem. the chief law enforcement officer of kentucky, under his watch the meth labs have doubled. he has been out of the the state 20 days of the last month campaigning in california raising cash. he needs to be in the state talking about and trying to do something about the meth labs. they are worse. >> rand paul will do anything to keep from talking about the meth issue because he doesn't get. >> meth labs are not part of the drug issue? >> they are part of it. we have gotten better at identifying them. we have new shake and bake labs and they are much smaller and we are finding more of them. another example where he
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doesn't get kentucky are the farming economy and drugs are a pressing issue. i had mothers crying on my shoulders because their daughters dose everdoesed from oxycontin. >> worse of a problem since you became attorney general. >> actually it is down. >> prescription drug abuse is up. >> chris: you said you would set up a drug task force and took you a year and a half to do that and aleast according to our statistics the number of meth labs in the state increased 60%. >> i said i would create a prescription pill tax force. when you are involved in an investigation going to lead to the largest pill bust in the statehistory sometimes you can't jump in front of a microphone when you are in the middle of an version. the meth labs the precursors
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are coming from out of state. meth labs are not all fixed. you have the mobile meth labs that are the little shake and bake operations and the ksp has the hazmat capability to do the meth stuff. i have been focused on drugs from day one and rand paul thinks they are not a pressing issue. the local governments can't do this on their own. it is fine to say -- >> here is the problem. he is concerned drug issue. he has been in california or out of state 14 of the last 20 working days. >> that is not right. >> he has been out-of-state trying to troll for cash. >> chris: finally, i want to get to ask both of you about your view of what your role as a senator, one of you going to washington in january, what your view of your role as senator would be. you have signed the policy platforms of move and daily codes supporting union card check and repeal of don't
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ask don't tell and saying you are open to a government run plan for healthcare, th, the so-called public option. fair to say in washington you would be to the left of president obama and if you are elected and he is elected would you support harry reid for the democratic leader. >> harry reid is in his own race right now. when i go to washington i will vote for the leader that will do best by the commonwealth of kentucky. i'm democrat and proud democrat. certainly not going to be to the left of barack obama. i'm going put kentucky first. the reason i said something on don't ask don't tell is i abhor discrimination. it was painful for a lot of kentuckians to see rand paul go on national t volcano and question fundamental foundations of the civil rights act. wondering what he would say to wounded veterans. i will put kentucky first and understand the state and try to create the of the future with the hometown tax credit. look at the trade deals from
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top to bottom. we lost 100,00 100,000 manufacg jobs. someone who looks out for the national security. we have lots of soldiers in the state. i will not go up there like rand paul said and says it is not a threat to the u.s. if iran has one nuclear weapon. i will put kentucky first and be mindful of where i come from. >> chris: dr. paul, you talk about helping to start a tea party caucus in the senate. fair to say you would line up to the right of most senate republicans and to clear up confusion, would you support, kentucky's mitch mcconnell for senate republican lea leader iu become a senator. >> i think mitch mcconnell will be a leader again and hopefully the majority leader. >> you will vote for him, not jim demint, no one else. >> right. what we are having is we will have a caucus meeting and decide. i will vote for whoever comes out of the caucus as a republican leader and i presume that that will be senator mcconnell.
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what i said repeatedly throughout this is what we do to help, kentucky, is leave more money in kentucky. all the big government schemes, obama care a trillion dollars. stimulus package. a trillion jazz, the money is not for free. we are borrowing it or having to print it at the federal reserve and it is destructive and we are going to have real problems if we don't have somebody that talks about reining in the size and scope of the federal government. >> chris: take a moment if you will to make a closing statement summing up the debate and what you would like to say. attorney general conway why don't you start. >> it as tremendous oner to be running for the seat once held by henry clay and i'm always going to be mindfulful that kentuckians need someone fighting for them in washington. i fought for them as attorney general by taking on pharmaceutical companies that gouged us and medicare fraud collections up over 600%.
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drugs are an issue and i will work to make sure that we get the assistance we need to really curb drug use in the state. i will be focused on being an independent voice for kentucky. and we going to have a hometown tax credit and provide incentives to the private sector to try to create jobs and this is a joyce in the election. a choice in the election between someone who i is goingo put kentucky first and someone who thinks that we don't need mine safety regulations and does not think we need an americans with disabilities act and thinks in medicare we need a $2,000 deductible and i will put kentucky first. >> i didn't know it was enodal ford's seat. i will work for people from both parties. i will reach across the aisle but i will say look, the bipartisan nature has to be approaching the debt. republicans failed us on the debt and so have democrats. i will reach across the aisle to say we have to reduce spend.
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it is not a revenue problem, it as spending problem in washington. we can do something about it and we need to do something about it before it is too late. >> chris: thank you both so much for coming in today and participating in the debate and answering our questions and each other's charges. safe travels during the final days of the campaign. >> chris: up next we bring in the sunday regulars live from d.c. to discuss the president's effort to energize the liberal base while congressional members go home with plenty of unfinished business. back in a moment.
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need you to vote on knock
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on doors and talk to neighbors and make phone calls. we need you to bring energy and passion and commitment. >> chris: president obama trying to rally the liberal base and recreate the magic of two years guy. time for the sunday regulars who are back home in washington. brit hume, fox news senior political analyst. and contributors mara liasson of national public radio, bill kristol of the weekly standard and juan williams also from national public radio. president obama on the campaign trail trying to fire up democrats and trying to close the enthusiasm gap that republicans have enjoyed as they approach the mid terms. also a big rally of liberals, progressive groups on the national mall yesterday in the wake of the glenn beck rally, tens of thousands of people attended. i think organizers said 175,000. we have two side by side pictures. put those up because it appears to our untrained eyes while it
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was a good sized crowd it was considerably smaller than glenn becks it rally. still there are signs in the poll that democrats are beginning to come home. >> there are few, chris but the general atmosphere and the general landscape of the race really has not changed. and when congress went home without acting on the tax cuts facing every single american who pays income taxes is now facing a tax increase in the downturnan economic downtown that has not abated to the point of people looking for jobs i think that will deepen that difficulty that the democrats face and while i think the president is shrewd and smart and you can see him at his firey best. i have a question as to whether he will succeed in doing so. there are not as many democrats this time around as there were
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the last time. >> chris: we will get to the question of congress leaving town with unfinished business in a minute but your sense of whether or not the president is succeeding in galvanizing the base and energizing the base and trying to close the enthusiasm gap. >> there is no hard evidence. he only had one of the four planned rallies. you can't point to the polls and say he left wisconsin and the senate race looks closer there. as a matter of fact, it looks pretty bad for russ feingold. the white house thinks this is a good use of his time and we will see over the next couple of weeks if some of the races tighten up. it is true that in some races like, california, barbara boxer looks letter than she did but in other places like, west virginia, or wisconsin or connecticut things look worse. it is hard to point to hard evidence. but the democrats are wagering $50 million that they can get back just enough of the
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first-time obama surge voters who came out in 2008, get just enough of them back that they can save enough vulnerable democrats to keep ahold of congress. >> chris: bill, wayne to pick up on pick i talked to a plugged in and loyal republican and he says the gop may now fall short of taking back the house. he said the democrats big advantage in money is beginning to work just as mara said in some of the house seats. and a lot of negative research on personal issues and business issues and these are starting to have effect in a bunch of districts. have we all been premature in declaring or presuming a republican victory in the house in november? >> no one should presume anything. there is a month to go and a lot of races will move in one direction or another. i would say the democrats have had a tiny comeback in the last
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week but precisely because they have had more money. incumbents have gone up on the air before the republican challengers who have been hoarding the money to use in november. and that tightened a few races in house districts and a couple of senate races. the bigger picture remains bad for democrats and i think republicans are i bet 4 to 1 to win house. i mean i think they will win it comfortable actually. and i think in the last couple of weeks the race could expand out again. the typical pattern in the wave elections is the party that is going benefit from the wave establishes a lead. a little bit of a comeback, a bear market rally by the other party in late september and early october. we saw that in '94 with the democrats. saw it a little bit with the republicans in '06 when the money starts to kick in. the last three weeks the money will be even. republicans up on the air against the democrats and voters will focus. the message they want to send is that they want a republican congress to check president obama and to repudiate some of
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what the democrats have done and i think they will get one. >> juan, let's get to the issue that brit brought up which is the fact that democrats adjourned the house and senate this week to go back and campaign until the election without passing a budget, without extending the bush tax cuts. that got both sides pointing fingers. let's watch. >> the party of no adopted a political strategy of obstructionism and now claims that there is not anything happening in the congress and the facts belie their assertions. >> look at how the 111th congress is not so much concluding as much as it has collapsed. >> chris: juan, who do you think has the better side of the argument? >> republicans have been dominating the argument for sometime by making it out that somehow the democrats want to raise your taxes by not extending the bush tax cuts. what we see on the ground i
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think is contradicts what we just heard from congressman boehner. even when said he was willing to compromise with president obama in terms of going ahead with the tax cut for i guess, 97-98% of americans who make less than 250,000, he was immediately accused of capitulating by other republicans who said hold the hard line we have to have the additional tax cuts for the 1.5 or whatever percentage of americans. so i mean that has become the narrative. so, nancy pelosi, i saw nancy pelosi on friday and she said you know what, she thought she could have won the vote even though there was several democrats, i think 30 plus who said that they wanted to extend the tax cuts for everyone. she thought she could have won is by getting republican votes. >> why didn't she take -- >> why didn't they vote? >> because if you will give people moment mr. hune. >> moment, moment. >> she said she didn't want to give the republicans a chance
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to misrepresent it because they are out there making the case that the the tax cut. >> so this poor little speaker of the house presiding over the massive majority has the vote she says to win on the issue and send her members home having voted to stave off the tax cuts for nearly everybody and she was afraid of what the minority republicans were going to say about it? do you believe that? >> stave off tax cuts for everyone, that is extortion. >> imi'm sorry, increases. >> the fact is four republican senate candidates this week in new york at a little event and i said how is the tax debate going. they said until now it has been the traditional democratic republican debate. it was probably kind of a wash politically. all of them. maybe they are wrong. all of them were extremely happy, this is the day after the nancy pelosi adjourned the house without allowing a vote, without allowing a vote on the coming tax increases.
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every republican challenger can now say you have been in charge for two years and could have dealt with this and cut whatever deals you needed to cut and bring over the mod ral republicans and insisted on an up or down vote. you didn't. every american faces a tax increase in january thanks to them doing nothing. >> chris: i want to get mara into the discussion because that is the issue i think republicans going to make. when they come back with a lame duck in november they will not be able to say at that moment what the taxes will be on income, on dividends, on inheritance, on capital gains a month and a half away. >> the problem is that they might very well get some kind of a deal, temporary extension or whatever in the lame duck. the problem is every democrat has to go home without saying i voted to continue lower taxes for the middle class. i do think that the white house and the democrats over estimated how strong their argument was going to be and how easy it was going to be to
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keep all the democrats on one page on this. i think if they had all the democrats they would have brought it up for a vote. now, the argument is republicans are holding a middle class tax cut hostage to continuing the tax cuts for the rich. the problem with that is if you don't have a vote and kind of show them holding it hostage how do you know that they really are? >> my point, mara is look, i think that you have to be blind and stupid not to know that republicans have been the ones blocking the tax cut. >> chris: juan, juan, juan. all right, guys. juan, you can continue talking during the commercial. wele take a break here. up next, some big changes at the white house this week. will president obama use chief of staff rahm emanuel's departure to change the way he governs? we will get the panel's take on that as "fox news sunday" continues from louisville and washington. back in a moment.
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by choosing from ten never-dreamed-possible prizes. from a customized v.i.p. vacation, to a hollywood red carpet experience, to cooking with a celebrity chef, and more find details on specially marked boxes of cheerios. why cheerios? because whatever you love doing, you'll need a healthy heart to do it. ♪ i want to thank you for being the toughest leader any country could ask for in the toughest times any president could ever face. [ applause ] >> chris: i suppose one could put abraham lincoln or george, washington, into the mix but in any case that was rahm emanuel ending his time as white house chief of staff and heaping praise on his now former boss and we are back from louisville
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and washington with the panel. before we get to rahm, let's talk about the choice that the president now faces. it seems clear that he will encounter different circumstances in washington after the election with either a smaller democratic majority in the house and senate or possibly republican control of one or both houses. brit, let me start with you. does he move to the center like bill clinton did in 1995? or should he stay on the left and engage in partisan war fare for the next two years? >> chris, i don't think we know. i mean i think it would be -- if this election turns out it is a appears overwhelmingly to, it as clear sign that says don't continue to do what you are doing. that is a definition of insanity. my question is will he be able and intellectually willing as bill clinton was to move to the center. bill clinton did d. that after
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the repudiation in 1994. this president is different. he didn't come from where he had to be elected or eelected as a moderate. he talked like a moderate during the campaign but has governed pretty much from the left, from the left part of the american mainstream and my sense about it is that i don't think this new interim chief of staff pete rouse is someone who can be counted on to tug in to the center say the way dick morris did with bill clinton after the election in '08. >> chris: let me pick up on that. if he decided to move to the center and follow the clinton model and a lot of us agree that pete rouse might not be the guy. who would be a good chief of staff. should he go outside and what are the chances you think that he will follow the clinton model if he takes a whipping, a drubbing as george w. bush called it in 2006 in the elections in november? >> look, i think that i can tell you on very good authority
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that at the white house they totally reject the idea that he would adopt the clinton model and move to the center. now, that being said, everything is going to change in november. even if democrats retain control the they there will bea smaller number of democrats and more liberal proportionally. a larger number of republicans and they will be more conservative relatively. fewer people in the middle for him to make whatever deals he might want to make. that having been said he has to acknowledge in some way whether it is choice of a new chief of staff or something he says that he got the message of the election and he has to explain what he thinks it is. and then when you look forward at all of issues he is going to deal with, i don't think it is simple as staying on the left or moving to the center. the issues coming up or not healthcare, the stimulus, the bailouts. they are deficit reduction which by definition has to have a big bipartisan buyin to work. the president's deficit commission which reports in december is talking about a formula of something like three
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times as many spending cuts to one tax increase. so, maybe he could find a way to craft some bipartisan deals. >> chris: let me big bill kristol if because i was going to ask you exactly that. do you see area of bipartisan agreement that this president and speaker boehner just presuming could find area o age agreement, free trade. >> i think the president got rid of the arrogant dominant cocky people who dominated in the first part. that is not pete rouse's attitude. he cut a lot of deals in the congress. he is a liberal but different in tone and i think in governing philosophy from rahm
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emanuel. i love the way the whole media decided to accept rahm's story that he always wanted to be mayor of chicago. he grew up in the suburbs. and went to school in new york. back to chicago in 1999. i think you can google him and never find him saying a word about becoming a mayor of chicago until they could give him a nice excuse for leaving the white house. the republicans should not underestimate barack obama's willingness to get rid of people who maybe haven't served him well and it is not exactly pivoting to the center governing in a different way than he did in the first two years. >> chris: let me bring you in juan about rahm emanuel. the original line is and bill quoted it during the presidential transition he said never let a crisis go to waste which is let's take advantage of the financial situation to pass a lot of legislation. during the debate over healthcare he reportedly wanted to go smaller and more
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incremental and keep the focus on the economy. my question is who was rahm emanuel and what was his role the last two years? >> i think that rahm emanuel was the dealmaker, the guy sent up to capitol hill to twist arms, crack the whip and make sure that the democrats serve the president's end. this is interesting because the criticism that has come from the left is that he was far too willing to compromise and that is why you don't get the public option in healthcare, that is why you didn't get the level of spending that the left would have wanted in terms of the stimulus and get the results that they thought would have happened if you had had a greater input at that time. and why you haven't seen the kind of populist anger at wall street. the left thinks that rahm emanuel was far too willing to compromise. i must say from the right the idea is you know what, rahm emanuel is a guy that will take no prisoners, that rahm emanuel was a hard person to deal with in terms of getting phone calls returned and all the rest. is fear ande is fair
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intimidation as a part of american politics is rahm's stock and trade. pete rouse who was described earlier as much more of a low key personality willing to make deals will do better with both sides of the aisle. >> before we run out the clock here, chris, it is worth pointing out that rahm emanuel as juan did is not popular on the left. in fact, if the president were trying to make peace with the left one of the things he could have done is to get rid of emanuel. it wasn't the first time that i heard that rahm emanuel wanted to be mayor of chicago. i heard that for a long time. what is more, you see some of the people who are still around, yes, larry summers is gone but david axelrod is around and will be until he takes off to run the campaign. robert gibbs is still present. i question whether there is anything at the core of the obama white house that has changed.
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>> chris: and we have 30 seconds left, brit. you think this is still a liberal, progressive, whatover you, left wing presidency in the white house. >> he still has the opportunity, chris, after the election, pete rouse is named as an interim. he could be named the permanent new chief of staff. all imse i'm saying is we don'e that yet. >> chris: thank you so much. we'll see you next week. don't forget to check out the latest edition of panel plus where our group picks up with the discussion on our web side and we will post the video before noon eastern time. up next from louisville, kentucky, we go on the trail. ♪ [ man ] i thought our family business would always be boots. until one day,y daughter showed me a designer handbag. and like that, we had a new side to our business. [ male announcer ] when the martinez family
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>> chris: with just 30 days until the mid term elections the president is trying to light a fire under democrats. congress left town to campaign with important business left undone and both sides of trying to define what republicans will do if they regain power. you don't have to be in louisville to sta say we are nn the home stretch on the trail. >> we cannot sit it one out. we can't let this country ball backwards because the rest of us didn't care enough to fight. >> it is time to buck up here and but not yield the playing field to those folks who are against everything that we stand for in terms of the initiatives we put forward. >> 111th congress, the house stands adjourned. >> the democratic leaders leave town without stopping the tax increases. they are turning their backs on the american people. >> whether we do it today or we do it six weeks from today,
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there will be no tax increase for middle class americans. >> he has been in washington for decades. he knows how the game works. he created the game. and he has taken millions from special interests. and now john boehner wants to talk about reforming congress? now, that's fun funny. >> the house finds itself in a state of emergency. the institution does not function. does not deliberate and seems incapable of acting on the will of the american people. >> it is fair to say that we could not have accomplished what we have accomplished without rahm's leadership. >> because my temprament is sometimes a bit different than yours mr. president i'm sure you have learned some words that you never heard before. mr. president, thank you. and thank you all, i look forward to seeing you in chicago. [ applause ] >> chris: and we'll be right back with some final thoughts.
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>> chris: our thanks to rand paul and john conway for participating in our debate and thanks for colleagues for


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