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tv   The O Reilly Factor  FOX News  May 5, 2012 5:00am-6:00am EDT

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of the death of osama bin laden. now, this week americans remembered that momentous day, but as we did, well, so president obama chose to politicize the matter, both here, at home and abroad. now, the move has many people outraged, including a group called veterans for a safe america. now, take a look at this. >> osama bin laden has been killed. >> there will be no parades. they have already gone back into the shadows, without the outside world even knowing their names. >> kireport, i directed leon panetta. i was briefed, i determined at my direction, i called the president. i was the commander in chief. >> we don't need to spike the football. i said i would go after bin laden if we had a clear shot at him and i did. >> suppose the navy seals had gone in there, suppose they have been captured or killed. the downside would have been
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horrible. >> that campaign ad is one of the most despicable things you can do. >> i said that i would go after bin laden if we had a clear shot at him and i did. and i did. and i did. and i did. >> sean: and we welcome our studio audience, some of the best, brightest military minds and heroes that i have ever had the opportunity to meet. thank you all for being here tonight. colonel north, no stranger to military issues. good to see you. >> good to be here. >> sean: let me ask a question, can we all agree that the choice of the president to engage our navy seals to get bin laden, does everybody agree, hands up
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that that was the right call? unanimous. all right. now, does everybody agree that the president was spiking the football, something he said he wouldn't do? who agrees with that. everybody here. okay. president politicized the killing of bin laden this week. anybody disagree? okay. now, if the president had his way, we are going to get into more detail on this, just a show of hands, he didn't support enhanced interrogation, he called it torture. the president didn't support gitmo, he wanted to close it. said he dolled it in his first year. the president didn't support rendition and black sights. so would we have had the intelligence to get bin laden if he had his way prior? anybody think we would have? >> well, i think that, i mean, with all due respect to jose rodriguez, obviously, has a different viewpoint, the interrogator who got the intelligence for the kill, he thinks that it actually delayed
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getting bin laden, the intelligence trial. >> sean: the full story which was confirmed in an interview with nbc news with brian williams, with leon panet athe defense secretary, which was that yes, enhanced interrogations did help. colonel north? >> there is no doubt that those interrogation techniques, which i used to teach as a an instructor. >> sean: you were waterboarded. >> stuffed in a tiny box in the sun. made to stand for hours and sleep depriivation. all of those were things that they taught us to teach others that they would have to endure. >> sean: okay. >> every instructor did it for years. unfortunate part of the polittization began under president bush. it was the attack by president media, the far left in politics that drove it into a corner. and as jose points out very accurately, had we not done it,
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we might not have only not gotten bin laden, we might not have wrapped up the network that did they they did to this city, to washington and the flight in pennsylvania. >> sean: that's extraordinarily well said. before i get to you. question: how many of you went through the same experience as colonel north and were waterboarded? so we call this -- president obama calls that torture. it was under medical supervision, the maximum time they could do it was 40 seconds o. average, they did it 10 seconds. is that torture as president obama claims? >> no, it is not torture. i think there is a second issue which is, did it work? it worked. it worked and it kept the united states safe for 10 years, even if it's torture, it's probably worth doing. >> sean: in other words, because we save lives. deborah, your brother was the pilot of the american airlines flight that went into the pentagon. >> correct. >> sean: you are one of the family members, you lost a loved
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one that day. on 9/11. now we are going to talk to mr. rodriguez later. you know, he said that was foremost in his mind and the threat of a second wave, a third wave, something i remember colonel north said that very day on september 11 when i brewed you. what are your thoughts on all of this? >> my brother was an f-4 carrier-based fighter pilot who was waterboarded. he called it p.o.w. school. five of the pilots were exmilitary pilots and four of them might have been waterboarded as well. when i read the so-called torture memos describing the enhanced interrogation program, i wept because this administration gave our play book to the enemy. and i believe that the enhanced interrogation program, not only worked. i know that the holder of justice department thinks it works too because they described the program in one of their memo -- legal briefs in the
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trial of the african embassy bomber and said it was a vital program, a reasonable program that didn't just -- wasn't just speculation. it worked, they provided the evidence that it worked and they said, simply put, this is a quote, simply, it saves lives. >> sean: saves lives. it's very interesting. we will get into this with mr. rodriguez. welcome here from sin city. nancy pelosi directly said to the american public that in fact, she didn't know about waterboarding. she was never briefed. now this is a point of contention in mr. rodriguez's book, but this is not a he said/she said. he brought his lawyer, staff people. he has eyewitnesses. she was told directly that waterboarding was taking place. what does it mean when the speaker of the house comes out and politicizes something like this to that extent.
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should she be held accountable? >> she should be. it's absolutely irresponsible, being the speaker. but he is on the intelligence committee. they have to make difficult decisions. i have been to guantanamo bay twice. god bless the men and women who have to put up with that crap. but they are doing it in a very humane way. most americans would be shocked about how nice we are to those people. at the same time, we have to do the job to get rid of things overseas. we have to do it. it saves american lives. >> sean: k.t.? >> yeah, i mean, i think the bottom line is does it work? is it not, is this torture isn't question is, is it effective? i think we have seen time and again that it works. if it works and it saves american lives, what are we worried about? >> sean: they put colonel north through. >> the administration wants to call it man-made disasters. so they play the semantic games to change the wording so it's mor-- more pallettable.
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but this is a war. >> sean: general, it's interesting to me because the state department just in the last week and-a-half said that the war on terrorism is over. they have declared. it's a term they wouldn't originally use. but now they say it's over. is the war over in your view, as we watch the rise of radical islamics in the egypt and the middle-east. >> it's just starting. my military colleagues do not understand the ideog we are fighting against. it is not a global war on terrorism, it's not an overseas contingency, it is a global war on radical islam that is attacking the west. if they don't understand the ideology, which is as evil as naziism, fascism and communism. >> sean: here's a follow-up
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question, then i have a break here. is this the next, third world war? now that the muslim brotherhood is in charge in the parliament in egypt and shirria is supporting the law. you look at israel is surrounded tseems they have no option but to launch a preemptive strike against iran, who says they will wipe them off the map. is this the next big world conflict? i see a great potential for that. i hope i am wrong, but you are in the military. am i right? >> you are right. i believe it is. it is manifesting itself in a different way. you have muslim brotherhood in the white house. you have west point cadets going down to mosques ---- and taliban. >> you can't negotiate with them. it's like trying to negotiate with nazis and the sss. >> sean: have you to defeat them? >> have you to defeat them. >> sean: we have a great group. some of the best, brightest military minds in the country.
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we will be checking in with everybody and we will have plenty of time for much, much more. he created the enhanced disbrgz techniques that helped to lead us to bin laden. jose rodriguez will join us in responding that the president's claim that the waterboarding is torture. we honor three former navy seals tonight, as we go inside ♪
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>> waterboarding is torture. it's contrary to america's traditions. it is contrary to our ideals. that's not who we are. that's not how we operate. we don't need it in order to prosecute the war on terrorism. we did the right thing by ending that practice. if we want to lead around the world, part of our leadership is setting a good example. anybody who was actually read about and understands the practice of waterboarding would say that that is torture. that's not something we do. period. >> sean: now, that was president obama late last year, declaring that enhanced interrogation techniques, like waterboarding are torture. one year after the raid that killed osama bin laden, a former cia high-ranking official is speaking out and argues that the methods of the bush
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administration played a large role in providing the intelligence road map that eventually led to the terrorist compound. with us is the man at the center of that, quote, controversy, jose rodriguez jr., former director of the cia's national clandestine service and the author of hard issues, how the actions after 9/11 saved american lives. thank you for being with us. >> thank you, sean. >> sean: you were there. sheikh shark, abu-zebada. you were in charge. the president of the united states now refers to you as someone who was involved in torture. your reaction? >> i describe our measure as how disgusted i was when i heard that because, you know, we stepped up to the plate. we got authority from the president-- justice department. >> justice department certified that it was legal. we briefed the congress-- nancy pelosi. you briefed her personally.
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>>? i briefed her personally. i led the team that briefed her personally. then we went to work. and we destroyed the al qaeda organization that attacked us. there is a long string of people that we took after that. we basically took it down. and the enhanced interrogation program played a key role in our being able to do that. >> sean: all right. if the president is going to spike the football and accuse the rival in the upcoming election of not being willing to make that decision which he did in this ad and go on the one-year anniversary of the beating -- the death of bin laden to go to afghanistan, it does beg the question -- if he had his way, not supporting enhanced interrogation and the black sights and how you would droll drug them, take them to locations where nobody could find them -- would we have had the intelligence if his way was used? no enhanced interrogation? >> i don't think so. you know-- wouldn't have gotten them.
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>> the last administration advanced the ball to the 90 yard line. then we passed it over to the new administration and they scored. yet, they spike the ball. and it was excessive celebration -- in my view. >> sean: talk about abu-zebayda. talk about khalid sheikh mohammed. talk about the waterboarding. ksm was tougher, that he was evil. when you saw him, met him, you felt you were looking at pure -- >> the personification of evil. he is a very smart person. but he was looking at different ways of killing us and coming after us. >> sean: how long does it take to break somebody? i mean, the techniques are sleep depriivation, changing their diet -- >> there is conditioning techniques, initial sleep depriivation and white noise and
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dietary manipulation. corrective measures when you grab the person and he understands that it is a different set of techniques here. there are stress techniques and then there is waterboarding. >> sean: how did both of those guys, i think americans would like to know, somebody like my friend beb deborah would like to know, how those two -- that planned and orchestrated the death of her brother, how did they react to waterboarding? >> they succumbed to waterboarding, eventually. i think the cumulative of the effect of the techniques got to them. they were the toughest. particularly, khalid sheikh mohammed. but interestingly, when abuzebayda went through the waterboarding. he told us we needed to waterboard everyone because they would have justification to cooperate with us. >> sean: deborah, do you feel a
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sense -- not necessarily, do you feel good knowing these decisions were made to prevent from other people having to suffer what you and your family suffered? >> absolutely. i think these methods were justified. it's not about vindication for my brother and the people who were killed. it is about, i don't want any other brother, father, sons-- to suffer. >> it is saving lives. i commend jose rodriguez and all of this is colleagues, nameless, faceless colleagues that we will never know. i believe that americans are alive and possibly westerners elsewhere in the world and our own troop because of this waterboarding, mainly because of the enhanced interrogation program. only three people were waterboarded? >> well, more people were waterboarded in this room than we waterboarded in the whole time-- the one time only one who liked it was colonel north. i'm sorry. we are good friends. all right. thank you for being with us.
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coming up next, although president obama wants to pat himself on the back of the killing of the al qaeda mastermind, the navy seals deserve all the credit. i will be joined by three former members of that group, three
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>> that was the only mention of the navy seals in this ad that ignited the controversy. amazingly, president clinton sounded more concerned about the political consequences was the mission than the safety of the seals. i am very proud to be joined by three members of that elite fighting group. and they are hear to talk about the mission of bin laden. howard wasdin, and author of seal target jeron no and the element commander of seal team 6 is here and the head instructor, brandon webb. thanks for being with us. i want to throw this question at all you of you. this is important. so many navy seals, former chairman of the joint chiefs,
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others, are furious over the fact that this has been politicized. are all of you angry? >> you know, sean, last time i was on your show, you were upset with me because i gave the president the compliment of doing the right thing, not telling pakistan we were coming, burial at sea-- we disagreed on the burial. i wanted to see the body. >> right. this time, my take is this -- if he wants to wrap himself himself up in a warm, sealed blanket and pike spike the football, then he's got to live by the same standards and take care of his guys. i want to give you three name, officers mccabe, keith and huertez. they were condemned and prosecuted by this administration by giving a terrorist a bloody lip. they were court-martialled. >> brought to trial and court-martialled. >> while he's wrapping himself up -- me, me, me-- isn't that my point --
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>> he's showboating. nobody likes to see showboating. nobody in our community likes to be paraded around like a show dog. you know? i think it's just enough is enough. >> sean: there is another point to this here. by mentioning, mentioning seal team 6. we could have said our intelligence people did this. our forces did this. do we not then potentially put people's lives in danger? >> they are absolutely put in danger by this. it ising interesting to me thate flies to afghanistan. he should have stopped in pakistan. this is a bipolar problem. one of the biggest problems in afghanistan is that we are also fighting fac stan. the taliban is a creation of the isi, they are armed, trained and in some cases led by them. >> sean: yeah. we have issues as to whether or not -- this is conflicting now. the president did an interview with brian williams of nbc news, gives a very different take what have he said in 2011 versus
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2012, if the mission was to kill or to capt and you are kill. watch this. >> did the president's order read captush or kill or both or just one of those snitch the authorities we have on bin laden are to kill him. >> now, you say capture or kill. everybody does. were you really going to capture this guy? >> absolutely. >> what -- put him in the back of a blackhawk? >> absolutely. >> sean: wait a minute. seals get sent into the field, howard-- can we get the truth? [overlapping dialogue] >> you will get an order to neutralize a target. neutralize. in this day and age, you can come back and face the attorney general of the united states because you have neutralized the target. that is a problem. but i agree with admiral mullen. look, it is an unlawful order in the united states of america to shoot an unarmed person. mr. bin laden was resisting other going for a gun and he got what happens to what happens to
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everybody who does that in front of a seal 6 team operator. >> they have split seconds to make a decision. he could have been doing something as innocuous as going for a teddy bear that was rigged with an iud. but the deadly use of force doesn't change because it's bin laden. >> sean: listen, i think they made the right call under every scenario. it's their call, their lives. it's their fellowue know, members of seal team 6 that they have to protect. >> i just think, like we were talking about, presidents bush, when he stood on top of that pile of rubble at ground zero and said the people who knocked down these buildings are going to hear from us real as soon as. he's responsible for building this robust intelligence and special operations package that obama inherited. a lot of credit needs to go to joacialg w. obama pulled the trigger, but i have real issues on the showboat ago. >> sean: everything is george bush's fault except the low gas
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prices and the intelligence with bin laden. everything bad is george bush's fault. everything good, he did. that's my political commentary. you are all heroes. the training and the risk you put for your country is so admirable. thank you. appreciate. >> it thanks, sean. >> sean: next, the former attorney general of the united states, michael mccasey is here with amessage for president ork 'bama over his decision to spike the football and details of an internal white house memo, outlining the president's real outlining the president's real role in the bin laden raid.éyéyy
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>> i banned the use of so-called enhanced interrogation techniques. i know some have argued that brutal methods like waterboarding were necessary to keep us safe. i could not disagree more. make no mistake. we will close guantanamo prison, which has damaged our national security interests and become a tremendous recruiting tool for al qaeda.
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i strongly believe that the steps that we have taken to prevent these kinds of enhanced interrogation techniques will make us stronger over the long term. >> sean: welcome back to this special edition of "hannity." i am joined by a studio audience of national security experts, navy seals and congressmen and many more. the president is not afraid to brag about his opposition to enhanced interrogation or gitmo. the irony that those are the very same policies that allowed our intelligence community to locate bin laden. my next guest took to the op-ed pages of the wall street journal this week to remind the president that abraham lincoln never spiked the football after the civil war. it's a very valid point. joining us is the attorney general of the united states, who presided over a flb of very high-profile terror trial, michael mccasey. i have read your whole piece.
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i have it in front of me. first of all, the thing that has bothered me which has not been talked about is the president had a fall-back, a cya. >> that memo was significant. >> sean: explain this. >> there was a memo from leon panetta that described the authority that was given to mccra ven to proceed according to the risks, only according to the risks that had been outline to the president f. he encountered anything else, he had to check back. you better believe if anything else had been encountered and the mission had failed, then the blame would have fall own mccra ven. that's what that is about. >> sean: here, the approximate president's now, everything worked out. but he put in place a cya that if it went wrong, mccra ven would have been the fall guy. >> that was a highly lawyered memo. >> sean: wow. you are saying this was designed to protect the president politically. >> i think there is going to be
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more that comes tumbling out about that escapade. but so far that, memo is enough. >> sean: you went through a little bit of history here. you talked about general eisenhower and you talked about abraham lincoln and you talked about -- their handling of very delicate military situations that they faced. >> well, i chose abraham lincoln, not on my own but because president obama said that was the person he wanted to emulate. so i figured it was reasonably just to go to abraham link. the night after lee surrendered, lincoln deliver his last speech from the window of the white house, he rejected taking any credit for it. put it on general grant and the troops and talked about the problems of reconstruction and in favor of black sufferrage-- he did the opposite. he stood up for general george mcclellan. >> earlier in his career, he stood up for mcclellan and his defense secretary, who were
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blamed. he said, no, no. the blame should be mine. the definition of a -- one definition of a great leader is somebody who takes less credit than he should and takes more blame than he should. that's not what we have now. >> sean: you talked about dwight eisenhower. >> dwight eisenhower before normandy, wrote out a message to be given in the event that the germans threw us off the beaches. what it said was, i picked the place where we landed. the troops, the navy, the airmen did their best and are most volarrous. if anybody deserves blame, it's me. >> sean: how many troops did we lose -- 7- or 8,000 men when they slammed the beaches of normandy? >> right. >> sean: a lot of loss. he prepared to take the blame, not -- >> correct. >> sean: then he gave praise after. >> when it became clear that it was a success. he wrote another message, giving all the credit to the troops. the only time he mentioned himself was at the end when he said, i'm proud of you.
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>> sean: what about your time as attorney general and u.s. district court judge, your opinions -- because obviously, mr. rodriguez would not have been able to engage in enhanced interrogation without the approval of the justice department, the white house, the president, et cetera, on down. your thoughts as you hear president obama refer to this as torture? >> he -- coming from somebody who is a lawyer, it blows my mind because torture is not a figure of speech. it is not a cocktail party expression. there is a torture statute that defines torture as severe physical or mental pain or suffering, severe mental pain or suffering is defined in durational terms, it has to last a language time. and the physical pain has to be severe. olc memo that rodriguez mentioned describe in detail why waterboarding and all the other techniques are not torture-- does he say this for political reasons in your view? >> i am not a mind reader.
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i don't know whether he says it for aesthetic reasons or to make other people feel good or to enhance his own state of mind. you have to ask him that. all i know is he's wrong? i would like to, but he won't come on this program which i cannot understand for the life of me. thank you. really appreciate it. coming up, hear from our studio audience. but first, our panel of political experts are here to talk about how the killing of bin laden could affect the november election. that and much more on this spec [ female announcer ] philadelphia cooking creme. a simple way to make dinner fresh and new again. just stir it in. now it only takes a moment to make the moment. ♪ spread a little joy and see ♪ need a little happiness to be ♪
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>> sean: welcome back to this special edition of "hannity." i am joined by a studio audience of navy seals, military experts and others to discuss the first anniversary of the raid that killed bin laden. the president pulled out all the stops to promote his role in the terror mastermind's death. but as you are about to see, he
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didn't always think it was appropriate to politicize such issues. let's take a look. >> i have had enough of using terrorism as a wedge issue in our politics. [cheers and applause] >> i have had enough of that. i have had enough of that. i don't know about you, but i think that the war on terrorism isn't supposed to crop up between september and november of even-numbered years. and yet, that seems to be the pattern. there is a sudden burst of activity, a sudden urgency about this whole thing, three months before an election, every other year. >> sean: joining me with political analysts of all of this. fox news contributor dough schoen and ed rollins. what do you make of those comments, based on his actions and the ad against romney? >> he could have made the trip. that was legitimate. thanked the troops.
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any type the commandener chief thanks the troops, that's okay. but he played it all politics. this is an axlerod plan. they did the romney commercial, mistakenly saying he did not have the courage tow make the proper decision -- >> part of this is about distortion because the comments that romney made were -- he will die, we will kill him. and that's from the very same comment where they are taking these words of governor romney out of context? >> i would probably disagree with you and say it was perfectly appropriate for the president to take credit for a successful raid. but i think to politicize the issue and attack romney, to use president clinton and president obama in an ad, the president's strategists made a mistake. and i believe governor romney made a huge tactical error himself, not rallying around the success of the navy seals and the administration-- wait a minute, he did -- >> to attack jimmy carter.
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>> the first comments governor romney made, he said, as i said then, i will repeat today -- that the president made the right call. >> i think he should have said, you know, mr. president, you made the wrong call trying to play politics with this issue. all americans should rally around, sean, and take credit for a great raid that speaks to the best of the american people. the american people who rallied around the white house and around the country speak to the best of our people. >> sean: but the only thing that i might disagree with you here on is that the president -- he said -- if you look at the whole comment when he talks about spiking the football. headz saying, he doesn't want to incite islamic extremists. we're not that way. that was one year prior. so now, i guess he's willing to incite and immediately, as soon as he left afghanistan, the taliban responded and seven people died eye am not blaming the president for t. i don't want to you misunderstand.
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but that was his fear a year ago, but what changed. >> what changed, he is in a dead-even race to get re-elected. he has to do anything to get re-elected. at the end of the day here, if you try to politicize your military, you are taking great, great advantage of the greatest men and women we have ever had fighting for us. this country was built on the backs of our military. this is something the country, unlike vietnam and past wars, the american public has a great love and respect. they may be war fatigued and what have you, but at the end of the day, when this president or romney want to give credit, fight for our men and women and fight these defense cuts that are coming, which will basically put us in extremely bad shape. >> sean: what changed a year ago? a year ago, he said we shouldn't do this. he went this there, the ad, i agree with ed. the timing seems off for somebody who says we don't want to incite people and rub it in their faces faces and show the f bin laden. >> my take is that politically,
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if he had taken credit, as he should have and could have, for the raid, gone over there, but included the seals, all of our troop it's. >> sean: maybe george bush. >> absolutely! >> sean: said he was wrong about the interrogation. >> it would have been better politics to have been inclusive, not emphasize the divisions and where we disagree, but that all americans can special should be proud. >> sean: how fair is it to examine the fact that he was against the intelligence gathering techniques that led to bin laden. >> it's a fair issue to discuss. but i don't think-- not at this point? >> what is most important in america, we have defeated bin laden as an individual. we are on the way to defeating al qaeda. and you are right. we have serious threats, but those threats require all americans to work together. all of us -- >> >> sean: the general is right. i think -- >> we do agree on that? >> in the middle-east.
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>> i think the word thank you has to come. we have put so much sacrifice here. these men and women who have basically gone on two, three, four tours, have broken up families and destroyed their health. we have a big obligation. i don't mean to keep coming back to. it but i feel very, very strongly. i am saying this because i believe it. >> that's right. we have a crisis with our returning vets. >> sean: post traumatic stress, so many mission, family crisis. >> the economic crisis, plus that make this is a huge national priority. >> sean: some of these guys can't get jobs. big problem. >> that's my point. >> sean: that's why romney's going to be elected on the job issue. we will deal with that another day. thank you both. when we come back, we will have more with the studio audience as we wrap up the special hour of "hannity." "hannity." thank you for being with look, i don't play 'bout my facial hair. but if i grow this out a little bit, i look too much like an english country gent... naaah. a little this way and i feel like i'm from outer space.
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>> sean: we continue on this special edition of "hannity" with our group of really well -- first of all, heros and people that know defense issues more than anybody. you work with the cia. mike baker. what do you think of where we are, what the president did and where are we in this war on terrorism? >> yeah, as far as spiking the football, i mean, any administration -- democratic or republican -- would have taken advantage of the take-down to some degree. a judicious use of it in a
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campaign is to be expected. but to me, is the campaign speech in afghanistan, using the strategic partnership agreement as top cover. >> sean: with the assumption that romney wouldn't have been as dynamic? -- >> it started to go seriously downhill at that point. but i think there was a line in his speech i think that was very telling from afghanistan, where he said the war began here and the war will end here. which whoever put that in here, whoever wrote that line should be taken to the woodshed, it's probably one of the most inane comments we are going to hear about this. there is no warrenning in afghanistan. >> sean: i think general mcenerny was right. lieutenant commander, i look at egypt, the middle-east, i look at iran. i look at colonel north knows well -- hamas, hezbollah, jihad, muslim brotherhood, north africa. i see israel surrounded.
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stated goal of wiping israel off the map. seems that we are just beginning, sadly. >> the global war on terror isn't over. leadership is about taking responsibility first and taking credit last. this is an act almost of stolen valor, that's one of the greatest things things that rubt the grain of the united states military. this wasn't a victory for one man or one party. this was a victory for america. >> sean: i think that's extraordinarily well said. you are the exsecretary of state. steve's over there. sorry. here we have some of the best, brightest military guys, putting their lives on the line every day. right? >> uh-huh? they get their orders, they do their job, the president takes credit. as we learned tone, he has the ability to cover himself if things didn't go well. >> the key point is that this isn't just bad politics, it's bad policy. releasing the memos of the
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letters today, why in the world would anyone tell your enemies everything you now know about them? >> bin laden likes to watch ms-nbc. >> that, too. his opinions of their affiliates and weaknesses, that's good information for us to have. you don't want to tell the other side, you know that. all of this is bad policy, which frankly, is more detrimental to us as a country than the bad politics. >> sean: one thing we didn't bring up in this entire night is, our enemies now know that this president thinks that enhanced interrogation is torture. so i assume on the -- you know, as they prepare, on their side of the war, they're thinking, okay, they are teaching all of their combatants, don't worry, the united states. get yourself a lawyer. lawyer up. don't say a word -- >> exactly. you want to know how your enemy's going to treat you, if you are captured and what you
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are going to be dealing with. any bad guy now could be properly trained that he won't be put to the grind, you know, he won't be enhanced interrogation, which i agree is not torture by any means, and they can set boundaries by which they can speak or not speak. i would say this really impacts negatively on our ability to do good, productive interrogations of the enemy. >> sean: are any of you that have been in the military, served in the military, how would you be treated? by this enemy? if you are not killed, would they stop? would they allow to you lawyer up? would they have a doctor standing by, if they are using waterboarding, no? >> sean, i find it ironic that this administration has started to abandon the focus on the kill /capture program and kill is the default position. dead men tell no tales. we are losing huge amounts of information by the fact that we are want bringing people to guantanamo. are we setting ourselves up for a new 9/11 because there is a
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vacuum. the things that we have done that were successful. i am not here to debate the merits of enhanced interrogation, this basic of senior prisoners is not being done. >> sean: did we not exploit the intelligence by revealing to the world that we got bin laden? >> they should never have talked about what was in that room. and one of the big failures the president doesn't want to talk about, we don't have his deputy-- that's one thing. and it would have been better if we took everybody in the compound back and deprev briefed them? >> absolutely? >> i am not questioning the military. but the overall mission. >> you remember right after the take-down was announced, the members of the team rushing to the microphone to give varying degrees of the story and what happened. but it's the inconsistencies that have been consistent and the alluding to releasing the document when is they gave away the interrogation memos and what was in our kit bag for enhanced interrogation techniques, what
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we could and couldn't do, you remover the element 6 surprise and the fear of not knowing and have you ruined interrogation. >> sean: jose said that ksm would count five, four, three because he knew how long the waterboarding was going to last. every one of you have played a really pivotal, important role in keeping our country safe. thank you all for what have you done for your country. thank you for being here. we really appreciate t. give yourself a big hand. you all deserve. it thank you. that's all the time we have left. thank you for being with us. i hope you have a great weekend. good morning, everyone, it's saturday, may 5th. i'm alisyn camerota. this is what is happening this hour. the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks is one step closer to justice this

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