tv America Live FOX News May 18, 2012 1:00pm-3:00pm EDT
that 20 minutes later, he would be dead. for the first time, we are also getting a look at the crime scene, this picture, which we have highlighted, shows martin's body under a tarp, lying in the middle of a yard and reports of physical evidence that allegedly tell a story of a struggle just before the fatal shot. prosecutors are calling this second degree murder. but zimmerman has called it self-defense. and these new pictures showing wounds to both his face and the back of his head certainly support his argument that the two men struggled before he fired his gun. trace gallagher breaks it all down for us now in terms of what we've learned and the questions that still linger. trace. >> reporter: and the autopsy report, megyn, shows that trayvon martin died of a single gun shot to the chest that exploded his heart. he had traces of thc, the chemical in marijuana, in his blood and his urine and had a scrape on the knuckle
of his left ring finger, that surveillance video you talked about of him, moments or minutes before he died in that 711, this is the last video there is of trayvon, there's nothing in the video that stands out except to show that trayvon martin appears to be acting tphoerp, minutes later he would be involved in a very loud and bloody fight. listen -- listen again to one of the 911 calls and you will hear the screams in the background. play it: >> i think they're yelling help but i don't know. >> does he look hurt? >> i can't see him. i don't want to go out there. i don't know what's going on, so -- >> do you think he's yelling help? >> yes. >> reporter: the police say there were 14 screams, witnesses say more than more than -- there were more than 20 screams and one called them agonizing screams for
help. one woman claims it was trayvon screaming, the other witnesses claim it was zimmerman. police trade that tape for trayvon's father and i'm quoting, i asked mr. martin if the voice calling for help was that of his son, mr. martin, clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded no, and here's a man who witnessed the fight. listen: >> there was a black man with a black hoodie on top of a white guy or now that i found out, i think it was a hispanic guy with a red sweatshirt on the ground, yelling out "help", and then, you know, i tried to tell him get out of here, you know, stop or whatever, and then the one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy, kind of mma style, on the concrete at this point. >> reporter: and if you look at the pictures, it appears to support that account. lacerations on zimmerman's head, a broken nose, two black eyes.
but despite the injuries you see there, the lead detective who first arrived on the scene said, and again i'm quoting, the encounter between george zimmerman and trayvon martin was ultimately avoidable by zimmerman if zimmerman had remained in his vehicle or, conversely, if he had identified himself to martin as a concerned citizen. now zimmerman claims that he lost sight of trayvon and he was going back to follow police orders to get back in his truck when trayvon martin jumped him, blindsided him and attacked him, trayvon martin's girlfriend, who was on the phone with trayvon before the shooting, disputes that. listen: >> i called trayvon, trayvon, what's going on, what's going on. >> that's you saying it. >> yeah. then i'm calling him, he didn't answer. >> no answer from trayvon. >> no. you could hear that trayvon -- somebody bumped trayvon. i could hear the grass.
>> reporter: 67 c.d.s of evidence turned over, megyn, dozens of witnesses and it all comes down to one key fact, which is who was the aggressor on the night that trayvon martin was shot. megyn: and that question remains unanswered conclusively in the wake of that evidence. trace, thank you >> reporter: yes, okay. megyn: there are literally hundreds of pages of photos, details from the night of this incident and they contradict what ofo some of what we have heard, for weeks now in this media frenzy leading to this point. later in this hour, two world renowned experts will join us live, pathologist dr. michael baden and homicide investigator mark furman with their latest take on the evidence, what does it mean and what exactly does it show in this case. we are getting a look the a the first major protest breaking out at the nato summit in chicago. look at this, live pictures
coming in, showing a group called national nurses united, rallies in downtown chicago, calling for a so-called robin hood tax on financial firms with the money to go to social services and health care. this summit, serving as a magnet for protest groups and that has security tight and police on edge. we'll go live to the scene in a few minutes. new fall out as critics of republican candidate mitt romney fuel controversy over a proposed superpac attack ad that the governor quickly repudiated yesterday and that it appears will not be made or aired. the president's reelection campaign, nonetheless, seizing on the proposed ad as a fundraising opportunity. that ad reportedly hoped to rehash president obama's relationship with controversial reverend jeremiah wright. a pro romney superpac, funded by the billionaire
founder of td ameritrade joe rickets, first heard the proposal, it was submitted to them, and it was leaked to "the new york times" which ran with the report yesterday. we reported on this show yesterday that the group had already said it was just a proposal, and now, that superpac is saying it's not going to be made, it's not going to be aired, and they are calling it deeply troubling and unfair. charlie hurt is a columnist for the washington times, he joins us with the latest. nonetheless, charlie, you have jim messina who works for the obama reelection campaign sending out a fund-raiser on this, saying quote, this is going to be worse than we could have imagined, president obama needs your help before it starts and talks about how this proposal shows in vivid detail what the president and all of us are up against, asking folks to donate. is there a chance this thing is still going to be aired? >> no. and you know, it was never even sort of in production. it was a proposal. the pac rejected it, the
campaign, mitt romney campaign, denounced it. it was never ever sort of even going in that direction. groups get -- they run all sorts of sort of tests to see what it is that they want to run with, and that's nowhere near airing something. but i do think, megyn, that it just shows how uniformly unfair so many in the media are that they have turned this -- they've grasped this and turned it into such a huge story, all day yesterday and today, trying to pin this ad on -- basically on the romney campaign. and i think jim is -- go ahead. megyn: many are trying to use this as way to talk about republicans and mitt romney, as you point out, in his campaign, and there are some incendiary things in this proposal. it's not just hey, let's bring up the reverend wright issue, this go round. that's somewhat
controversial, but the proposal, referring to sur sit -- sur sitting president as a metro sexual abe lincoln, which it talks about how are we going to avoid claims of bias against us in this ad campaign and it says well, let's hire a literal conservative african-american to be our spokesman, so obviously the document is controversial, right, but the question is the intent is to link it to romney and republicans in general. >> and let's also be clear, that intertwined as you mentioned throughout all of this is the issue of race, and it's a very, very touchy situation. but i would argue that what the obama campaign is doing, what jim messina is doing by raising money off of this, it's the dreaded dog whistle politics, where he's basically trying to smear romney and romney supporters as somehow having some sort of racial ulterior motive here and they're trying to sort of bring race into it. no they're not. romney has said, he denounced the whole package. the pac decided not to run
the ad. they have rejected it. and yet, the obama campaign still wants to drag it in here in order to sort of raise concerns that maybe there's going to be this sort of racial undertone to the race, and i would argue, megyn, that it's disgusting when the right does it and it's every bit as disgusting when the left does it, and i also think it's fascinating that the obama campaign would want to talk about reverend wright or want to talk about this stuff. what that tells me is well, apparently talking about the economy is even worse for them. megyn: that's an interesting point, because that was an issue they clearly didn't want to go, you know -- discuss in any great detail in the last go round after the president's speech on race. different story this time around. charlie hurt, thank you sir. >> thank you megyn. megyn: vice president biden gave a couple of fiery speeches on the campaign trail. he's been in the news quite a bit lately. that latest speech critics have de cried as class warfare and there are new
questions about whether the administration has a problem with successful people. we'll debate. >> a new faceoff in the sexual misconduct lawsuits involving john travolta, but this time, mr. tell me more has nothing to do with it. we'll look at why the current and former attorneys for two of travolta's accusers are now in a feud of their own, we'll talk about the new accusers that have come forward and we'll take a look at the latest evidence on the docket in kelly's court. >> as controversy grows over elizabeth warren out of massachusetts, the controversy is over her claims of native american heritage. originally she said she was claiming it because her great great great grandma may have been cherokee, now it turns out there's absolutely no proof of that. >> now we've heard growing complaints from different members of the cherokee nation. and three members, 1geniologist is demanding that warren apologize.
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megyn: new calls for the democratic senate candidate in massachusetts, elizabeth warren, to come clean about her history. this whole controversy started a couple weeks ago when it surfaced that elizabeth warren who was challenging republican scott brown in massachusetts for his u.s. senate seat has claimed in the past to be a native american, while she was teaching at harvard, while she was at another top university, she listed herself, she claimed she did it because she wanted to meet other people like her. this is all based on her claim that her great great great grandma may have been cherokee, something that genealogists have said they have zero evidence of and we
have heard increasing calls from the cheer key community after new reports suggest that warren may not have any cheer key background at all to have her apologize. twao*eula barnes is a cherokee genealogist behind the blog "thoughts from polly's grandmother", she wrote an open letter to warren asking for proof of her heritage. twao*eula, thank you very much for being here. you know, she maintains that it's been in her family, she's known about it for a long time and maybe there's no proof of it, but that she is, indeed, 1/32 cherokee. what say you? >> no, she's not. i've looked at her documentation, i've looked at her family papers. there's nothing to indicate she's cherokee. her family is found nowhere among the cherokee records. >> what about the great great grandma, sarah smith. first we were told that in a
marriage license application, she was listed as cherokee, now that we're being told there's no proof of any of that. >> the application does not say cherokee anywhere on it. it has his name and his mother's name as o.c. smith. it doesn't even have sarah on it. it just has o.c. smith and there's no cherokee. megyn: so far she has not released any proof, she's not released any documentation. you say in your open letter, quote, we cherokees have lots and lots of documentation supporting our claims of ancestry. is that the case? for cherokees, yes. yes. there is -- from the miller roll, which was 1907 to 1914, going all the way back to before the trail of tears, cherokees are recorded and we can trace our families. megyn: she doesn't provide documentation as proof but
apparently her campaign is pointing folks to the powwow chow cookbook, a native american -- in which she's got a native american recipe. she's listed as, you know, one of the providers for a native american recipe that she calls for mayo in it, she is taking heat for suggesting that a native american recipe has maco in it, i don't understand how it works, quite frankly, twila, but she has also apparently given this sound bite about her appearance and the appearance of others in her family. take a listen: >> i still have a picture on my mantle at hole and it's a picture my mother had that before that, a picture of my grandfather, and my aunt bee has walked by that picture at least a thousand times, remarked that her father, my papah, had high cheekbones like all of the indians do, because that's how she saw it, and she said, and your mother got those same great cheekbones, and i didn't. she thought this was the bad
deal she had gotten in life. being native american has been part of my story, i guess, since the day i was born. megyn: what's your reaction to that twila? >> well, when she said it's part of her story, that's true. it's just a story. and honestly, i have never walked by any picture of any of my ancestors that are indian and said they have high cheekbones! it just is not something we say. i -- that comment, i'm just shocked she used that. megyn: first of all, i want to correct myself, apparently the campaign didn't put it out but she did tout her native american roots alleged in this '84 cookbook. do you view her as a fraud? and why do you think that this is significant? because you know, a lot of people say, i don't know, well, she was or wasn't, who cares. >> i saw an interview with
her, i think, from yesterday, and she said people are not wanting to focus on the real issues, they want to focus on her ancestry. well, i think this is a real issue, because we have issues in indian country, like indian health services that can be improved, poverty, there are conditions sometimes that are worse than third world country living conditions. and those are issues to us, yet she thinks she can pretend to be an indian and benefit from that, and she has no clue that these issues even exist. so it is important to talk about this. because these are the people that she stepped on to get where she is today. megyn: she listed herself as a native american, which gives her minority status in law school directory when she was at harvard and another university, and there is an accusation that in doing that, these universities may have looked at it and may have given
her, whether she knew about it or not, favored status in their hiring and promotion decisions. your thought about, you know, elizabeth warren having possibly displaced someone who is native american from those jobs because, you know, if they're looking to hire one, and then they hire elizabeth warren, they think they've checked that box when in fact maybe they have not hired a native american. >> i think if that's what she did, then it's aphenceible. i wish they would release all the documents she used in hiring so people can know and have that question answered, because we know she checked herself as native american in the directory, so what's to say she didn't when she applied for the jobs? megyn: yeah, she's denied that, and at least one official from harvard who remembers hiring her suggested they did not consider that, but we'll
continue to follow it. it's interesting. twila, thank you, all the best to you. >> thank you. megyn: well, we are told that iran is near the top of the agendas president obama meets with world leaders this weekend. the u.s. apparently ready to strike iran if necessary. and we're getting rather vocal about it. a top official yesterday, very publicly spoke about a pentagon attack plan for iran. they say they've already got it in their back pocket. who is that message really aimed at? >> and the food police cracking the flip, a high school slapped with a $15,000 fine over one mistake with a single soda machine. what? get ahead of it! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap a day helps defend against digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. hit me! [ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'. and then treats day after day... who gets heartburn life. well, shoot, that's like checking on your burgers after they're burnt! [ male announcer ] treat your frequent heartburn by blocking the acid with prilosec otc. and don't get heartburn in the first place! [ male announcer ] one pill a day. 24 hours. zero heartburn.
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this is right in the center of chicago. the rally comes ahead of a two-day nato summit and security is so tight, there is a shootdown order for those protecting the air space over the city. mike tobin is on the ground in daly plaza with more. mike. mother mother hi megyn. this is demonstration from the national nurses united. they walked here about a mile from their hotel and the numbers right now are estimated about at two how with 5000 people expected here, largely because tom morela, lead guitarist with rage against the machine is expected to play in a few moments. this is one of the demonstrations that's a bit off point. what the nurses want is a robin hood tax to offset cuts in social spending. what does that have to do with nato? nothing. but this was a demonstration that was organized when the g-# was expected to attend, so the nurses knew the cameras would still be here, the nurses marched on. protestors arriving here in chicago by the busload from all across the nation. this is what the chicago police have been bracing
for. they have brought in police officers from all across the nation, they have out in the suburbs established a multi-agency communication center. that is staffed by everyone from the secret service to the power company. >> at the end of the summit on monday, we hope that all of this was unnecessary and that the people staffed here over the weekend are totally and completely bored and had nothing to do, but we have to prepare for any contingency. >> >> reporter: live pictures out here, you can see the police officers in numbers out in the streets of chicago. what they're concerned about is infiltration. this is a largely peaceful and lawful demonstration. we have seen people who look like the infiltrators, the people with the masks over their face, with the black clothing. we do know that nine arrests have been made, separate from this demonstration. that information coming from an organization called the national lawyers guild, the accusation is that those arrested, nine people, were accused of making molotov cocktails, the national
lawyers guild say it was beer making equipment, chicago police are not commenting, saying it's a matter of investigation. megyn. megyn: just a beer making equipment! that's it! mike, thank you. >> reporter: there you megyn: less than 24 hours ago, we got hundreds of pages in evidence in connection with the killing of 17-year-old trayvon martin, down in florida, they have very, very open disclosure rules when it comes to the media and evidence and boy oh boy have we learned a lot. does this new information change our fundamental knowledge of the events? and what exactly does it show? two world renowned pathologists, dr. michael baden and homicide investigator mark furman discuss their take on this evidence and what it means for the case. and a fiery joe biden taking the message on the road and critics say the stuff speech is fanning the flames of class warfare. we'll have a fair and balanced debate next over the growing divide between the obama administration and people who manage to be
successful. >> my mother believed and my father believed that if i wanted to be president of the united states, i could be, i could be vice president. my mother and father dreamed as much as any rich guy dreams! [applause] >> they don't get us! they don't get who we are! y bit beyond the call of deliciousness. that's a big 10-4 kosher. with no fillers, by-products, artificial flavors or colors. hebrew national. the better-than-a-hot dog- hot dog.
folks. we could be getting a verdict anytime now in the corruption trial of former presidential candidate john edwards. jury deliberations kicked off this morning. it is now in the hands of jurors. he faces six felony counts for allegedly violating campaign financing rules by accepting a million bucks to hide his former mistress during his run for the white house. they argue that is was not a campaign donation but a gift that he knew nothing about. >> the thing that i resent, i have to tell you, is a lot of romney supporters say we're engaging in class envy. wealth envy. like my mom and dad didn't dream? that one of their kid could be a millionaire? like my mama didn't dream that one of their kids could be president? my mom and dade didn't dream that one of their kids could
invent --. megyn: something. vice president joe biden fired up during a campaign speech in ohio yesterday. delivering a speech targeted at mitt romney. suggesting that well, that romney's line of defense on the attacks against his wealth, that that is the politics of envy is inappropriate and offensive. that led our own bill o'reilly to take on mr. biden with respect to his comments that he made yesterday and the day before. listen here. >> my mother briefed and my father believed that if i wanted to be president of the united states i could be, i could be vice president. my mother and father believed that if my brother or sister wanted to be a millionaire, they could be a millionaire!. my mother and father dreamed as much as any rich guy dreams. [applause] they don't get us. they don't get who we are!.
they don't understand it seems to me. >> that is true, mr. biden, i don't get you. in fact i don't know what you're talking about! you came from humble beginnings. you made it big. same with me. what's the problem? by the way i give millions to charity but you, mr. vice president, give only, nothing, very nearly nothing. i don't get that. bottom line. this is all a bunch of garr ban. the class warfare the obama administration is peddling is bogus. well think people are not responsible for the bad economy. bad federal policies and corrupt financial greed heads are responsible. megyn: joining me now to discuss it, alcan combs, host of the alan colmes show and mike gallagher. fox news contributor. o'reilly, went on to say this, 315 million people live in the united states.
three million are millionaires. only 30% inherited their money from their parents, generations prior. 70% are self-made like he is. he went on to say why is the administration trying to demonize americans who made money the old-fashioned way. is that what they're trying to do? >> well, you never hear republicans complain or gripe about americans who have, have been successful. they don't complain, we don't complain about democrats who have been successful. i have to tell you, megyn you played the first clip and got clipped when he said my parents dreamed about being able to invent, i wonder if he was going to finish that sentence invent a muzzle for their son. let me tell you this is mitt romney's greatest asset. maybe not, but i'm telling you this is a great asset. this guy is such a buffoon and more he goes around and engages in class warfare. megyn: oh. >> this is the right word. megyn: you can disagree without calling our vice president names? >> i'm sorry, he is buffoonish in his behavior. this is man accused
mitt romney of not, would have not authorized raid to get usama bin laden when it was revealed joe biden one only people in the white house who didn't want to approve the raid in pakistan to get usama bin laden. how can anybody take him seriously? he is a clown. i'm sorry and mitt romney's best asset. >> alan, i thought it was interesting bill ol' reilly ended his piece by my folks didn't have much but i never heard him run down rich people. we're hearing demonization of rich. >> by whom? megyn: as fat cats. as the 1%. do you not detect an uptick in that -- >> no. what i detect is, joe bide who i'm sorry to see mike has to stoop to calling names, but i mean, what i'm seeing is, joe biden responding to the class warfare on the right with a right continues to play class warfare. turning it around. do what they did very well.
accusing other side what they're guilty. this is game they play very well. they turn around and other side is guilty of exactly what they're doing. megyn: how is the right engaging in class warfare? >> how about by continuing policies, all about policies that want to favor the rich. take stuff away from the poor. that want to cut that will hurt the least among us that continue to favor the things that make the rich richer and poor poorer and have mitt romney say i don't care about the poor. they will be taken care of, rather than saying i want to have policies where rising tide lifts all boats. romney says i don't care for real poor. we have stuff for that. that is what the issue is. >> what is astounding is you played the proof in the video clip, megyn. joe biden said, my parents dreamed like any rich guy could. do you hear the way he said any rich guy could? he demonizes the wealthy. he, that these guys castigated the people who have been successful in corporate america. alan, you heard him say it any rich guy like it is a
bad word. >> with all due respect --. megyn: he is suggesting that mitt romney believes or has said that the middle class, that blue-collar, folks, don't have dreams. my parents dreamed as much as anybody else. just let me, mitt romney came out and said, because i asked him, he was on this set and i asked him, people make attacks on your wealth you're out of touch and you don't understand people. look that is politics of envy. i'm not going to apologize for my success. in response to that, that kind of comment you got the vice president saying, my parents dreamed, you know, working-class people dreamed. >> this is misstatement of the part of the right where they think somehow they're asking romney to apologize for success. i don't begrudge mitt romney or anybodies being successful. mike is successful. i'm successful. all of us here are successful but we have different points of view politically. no one bee ungrs his success. what policies will you enact to help the least among us. how will we even up the playing field and how will
we do enough to make sure that all of us have equal opportunity in america. that is what it is about. megyn: let me ask you because the president and vice president don't come out and demonize the wealthy but the point that o'reilly was trying to make, that the rhetoric is sort of targeting of that group. that they're okay with just leaving people behind and they don't feel the need to help anybody and you know that is what he was pointing out. >> right. megyn: he make as bunch of charitable donations and doesn't think much of the vice president's chairable donations. >> he never said he didn't care about poor people. >> they're taken care of, we don't have to worry about them. >> there are lots of government programs we put in place to help the poorest among us. >> what he should do away with programs, so the programs aren't necessary. >> like bill o'reilly pointed out people like joe biden and barack obama are postively stingy when it comes to helping their fellow man.
liberals don't give to charity like we conservatives do --. >> policies of administration, tax cuts to 95% of the working families, tax cuts for small businesses doing very things republicans say they want when they're not going against barack obama. >> this administration wants to tax --. megyn: i have to go. thank you both very much. as the president gets ready to meet with world leaders we're told the number one issue is the growing crisis in europe threat us. we'll look at how the crisis threatening the president's campaign efforts? we may eye-opening discoveries with hundreds of pages of interviews and photos released in the trayvon martin case. in three minutes, dr. michael baden is here alongwith detective mark if you recall man and will tell us what they think of this evidence. >> i think it was hispanic guy with red sweatshirt on the ground yelling out help and then, you know, i tried to tell him, get out of here, you know, stop or whatever. and then the one guy on top
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megyn: back now to big news today in our top story. reams of new evidence changing what we know about the trayvon martin shooting case. photographs and police reports painting a complicated picture of what happened that night. here's one witness account that we are now getting to hear tore the first time. >> when we heard a shot i looked out and that's when i saw a two men on the grass. >> okay. you saw two people? >> two people. >> and they were, were they both on the ground? >> no. one was on top of the other. i don't know which one. >> okay. megyn: that was not trayvon martin's girlfriend that you were listening to there. that was an eyewitness. that was the wrongful screen identification. to shed light on all the new evidence two world-renown crime scene experts, mark if you recall man, former
l.a.p.d. homicide detective and dr. michael baden who is forensic pathologist and fox news contributor. so glad to have you both here with us. dr. baden, let me start with you have the on set advantage. what do you make of the autopsy report? what did you green from it? >> i gleaned from it the comments about the knuckle injuries are invalid. megyn: trayvon martin had one. george zimmerman had reportedly no knuckle injuries. >> that's right. the muzzle weapon was up against the body of trayvon at the time of discharge. that it was within an inch when it was discharged. that would have been on the ground or standing up. can't tell from the autopsy. megyn: definitely fired close range? >> close range. the muzzle being next to the skin. then it went straight in. straight in through the heart. megyn: looking at the way he was killed, the injury to the heart, is there any chance fighting could have continued after the bullet entered trayvon martin? >> good question.
conceivably for a few seconds, 10 seconds or something like that until collapsed. megyn: okay. there was no chance of reviving him with that injury? >> even if people got their faster this was a fatal injury. megyn: okay. i want to ask you, mark, one of the interesting things everybody wants to know who started the confrontation, right? zimmerman following trayvon. trayvon he lost him somehow and the two men met up again. the question is who confronted whom. i want to play for our viewers now, this is a sound bite by trayvon martin's girlfriend. it is her speaking with the deck serves about what she heard on her hend of the conversation with trayvon as that second meeting between trayvon and george zimmerman took place. listen. >> trayvon tells you the guy is getting closer to me? >> yeah. >> you hear trayvon saying something? >> yeah. >> what do you hear trayvon saying? >> why are you following me for. >> what are you following me for? >> yeah. >> what happened? >> man, like, oh, man.
>> okay. >> what are you doing around here. megyn: i mean does that answer the question mark, that you know, about who confronted whom on encounter number two? >> well, megyn, this whole incident is in two stages. the first stage is when zimmerman actually decides that he is going to, on foot, pursue and surveil trayvon martin for what purpose was probably to see what he was up to. he said he looked suspicious. that is the first stage. the second stage is, when zimmerman calls 911 and they instruct him to go back to his vehicle and do not pursue the individual he is looking at. so, it actually does confirm the first stage, that it was not martin that decided to contact zimmerman, it was zimmerman trying to contact martin. so when you look at this, you have to say, who initiated the contact? well there was really two
contacts initiated. visual and then, at the time the trayvon martin contacted zimmerman, only occurred because zimmerman did not follow the orders of 911 and sat in his car. so, what transpired there was stimulated by zimmerman and after that point would have never happened had zimmerman not made that initial contact twice. megyn: first one clearly by zimmerman. second one appears to be by zimmerman if you believe the word of the girlfriend. heard trayvon running. he was breathing hard. he was scared, he said he lost the guy who was following him. you heard the sound bite of her talking about confrontation number two, she heard trayvon say, why are you following me? the person said to trayvon, what are you doing around here? and then she heard a confrontation. dr. baden, i want to talk to you about the trace amount of drugs that were found in the system of trayvon martin. >> right. megyn: what were the drugs?
what does it tell us? >> there was evidence of marijuana use, meb tabized marijuana, in the drugs trace amounts could have been there for many days after --. megyn: didn't mean he was smoking pot that night? >> not smoking pot that night. didn't contribute to the death in any way. it was the reason he was sent to the father in the first place because a week before he had been discharged from school because he, possible marijuana use when he was with his mother. megyn: is there any way whether that would have altered his mood, his behavior? >> the level was too low to alter any physiological mood or anything. zimmerman was not tested and usually in a homicide, like this, the suspect should also be tested for drugs. megyn: do you see that as a failing by the sanford police? >> a failing although they did a lot of other things correct. the biggest failing i see is that he should have been
brought to a hospital for head injuries. the problem with head injuries during incarceration is sometimes they reflect deeper injuries to the brain and like, with, natasha richardson, you can't tell from the outside whether or not there is internal bleeding. megyn: instead went to his own private doctor. documented injuries but not the same as -- >> x-ray is necessary to document the fractured nose. megyn: stand by we'll continue this with dr. baden and mark fuhrman after the break. i want do ask mark about other witness testimony. stay with us
>> oh i'm sorry, megyn. megyn: sure. >> when you watch, when you watch the individual in the 7-eleven, it shows he doesn't look like he is on a crime spree. certainly not shoplifting. certainly not robbing a liquor store. buying something to drink and something to eat and he is leaving. and, that is the evidence that is found at the time his body was recovered, his, that he actually had skittles and an iced tea. this isn't conduct of somebody that will go out and commit car burglaries and home burglaries. he is simply walking through a neighborhood that george zimmerman did not recognize that he belonged there. megyn: so i think this tape, can be helpful to the prosecution but this is a piece of evidence that came out that is arguably not helpful to the prosecution, mark. in the affidavit, the probable cause affidavit, the investigator used as one of his pieces of evidence trayvon martin's mother reviewed the 911 calls on the night in question. she identified the vice crying for help we heard on
the 911 calls in the background as her son, trayvon martin's voice. what we learned last night they talked to george zimmerman's dad as well. listen to what he said. >> that is absolutely, postively george zimmerman. myself, my wife, family members and friends know that that is george zimmerman. there is no doubt who is yelling for help. megyn: you know as a detective, mark, he basically chose one and not the other. is that how it's done? >> i think this whole issue on who is crying for help is completely irrelevant. george zimmerman actually, you know, stimulated this contact. so there's something that caused this altercation to begin. now, it was either the statement, i have a gun, don't come closer, displaying a gun but trayvon martin does not seem to be the type of person that is just going to simply look at somebody, and charge and start pummeling them with
his fists. megyn: the girlfriend's testimony -- >> that has not been witnessed. megyn: girlfriend's testimony, dr. baden, hard break coming up 15 seconds or left. pictures from crime scene. anything from that. >> probably not. it was not protected initially the crime scene could have determined if trampling of grass and struggle movement. could have found blood drops on grass maybe from nose. and then it rained and they hadn't protected it so that was --. megyn: thank you so much. coming up we have breaking news on iran line, their very first word was... [ to the tune of "lullaby and good night" ] ♪ af-lac ♪ aflac [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com. [ yawning sound ] in absolute perfect physical condition and i had a heart attack right out of the clear blue... i'm on an aspirin regimen... and i take bayer chewables. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. he's my success story.
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megyn: fox news alert. the leaders of the world economic powers con vegeing on washington today for the g8 summit as growing economic crisis in europe threatens to hurt our economy here at home. with the fallout stretching potentially to the 2012 election. welcome to a brand new hour of "america live", i'm megyn kelly.
contain i don't know in europe putting trillions of dollars in u.s. banks at risk. that could have a real impact on the 2012 race. joining me now, simon constable, columnist for "the wall street journal" and author of the journal's guide to the 50 economic indicators that really matter. chris stirewalt, our fox news digital politics editor and host of "power play" on foxnews.com. simon, it is very easy for us to only worry about our problems here at home because we have plenty of them but we need to keep one eye on what is happening over in europe. why? >> we do. what we have to remember about europe although it is a mess, it is the world's largest trading bloc, the eurozone. it is huge. it is bigger than the u.s. economy, the u.s. economy if it were just a country would be the single largest country but the eurozone is even bigger than that. that is basically going into a deep recession. we're already seeing greece into recession. spain is in recession. we'll see the u.k. in recession. probably won't come out for a while. it won't be long before the
others go into recession. that is going to be really bad. when countries are in recession, they don't buy things and don't import as many things and we export to europe. so it will be bad for jobs here in the u.s. on top of that, it i bad for their banks and what stays, what is in the banking system doesn't stay in europe. it moves like grease-lightening everywhere. you remember the contagion in 2008 we saw with lehman brothers and it sort of sped around? well if we see some banks in europe have problems it could spread very quickly back to this side of the atlantic and that would be really bad and credit risks would be awful. megyn: we're seeing more european countries move toward social i'll. so they don't seem to be in favor of limited austerity measures in place over there and raises questions about the what the future holds. debt is more than 100% of the gdp, work product out of countries in italy, portugal, ireland and greece and
between 80 and 99% of gdp in france, belgium, germany and the u.k. that is incredible. >> it is incredible and on top of that as a bit of an overlay, what we're seeing in greece bonafide fascists and communists getting votes in elections whether they be in the government or not is another matter. people are desperate and they are trying to cling on to whatever they can to maybe, something can, you know, man these fascists will provide answer to their thinking. i think they're misguided. you understand when people are in a bad situation they go after whatever they think might help them out. it is really bad there right now. megyn: chris, the g8 leaders, they meet and want to talk about among other things what is happening in the euro and what is happening in the eurozone and how does it affect us? and president obama needs to worry about that as our president and the mad who would like to remain our president. >> yeah, the first thing he need to do is avoid or, that he needs to hope for is
avoiding the second scenario that you guys just described which is a contagion of debt that triggers a panic much like the panic in 2008 around the world, a credit squeeze. people freak out. if that happens, president obama can kiss it good bye. that almost certainly precludes re-election. so that's concern one. but concern two, and what is seemingly an unavoidable circumstance is that you have a deep and deepening recession in europe. if that is the case, and you guys were just talking about the drag that would be on u.s. manufacturing, u.s. exports and all of those things, if this triggers that kind of slowdown and looks like it will, that is only going to feed into mitt romney's argument, it is his central point of prosecution against president obama and it will certainly help his case. megyn: yet whoever is in the office right now would be dealing with this situation in europe. what is happening in europe was not caused by the united states. so there's a question, simon about what if anything we should be doing to help
europe avoid that result because it's not in america's best interests and yet the american taxpayers don't want to bail out europe. >> we don't want to bail out europe. look what ireland did with its banks, it got them to take the hit on the bad loans very quickly and taking a hit on bad loans quickly gets it over with really fast and it is recapitalized. what you're seeing in spain and other places and some extent in u.s. bad loans aren't getting marked down quickly enough. so one thing the u.s. could do, although it could be hard because they really haven't done it here, say to spain and italy, mark down the bad loans as fast as you possibly can to make the true nature of your banks apparent to people. then recapitalize them and get them lending again to get the economy restarted that is what has to happen and happen quickly. megyn: only understood every third word you just said. >> i'm sorry. megyn: sound like we need to put pressure on them to do the right thing. >> what we need to do is make the banks do the right
thing. they're not doing right thing. i'm sorry, megyn. economists, i'll translate it, the banks are bust in europe and they need to own up and say they're bust and need to make themselves good again. we don't do that. they can do that themselves. megyn: chris, president obama has to say to our friends at this meeting i've got these friends in chicago. get your banks in order or you're going to hear from them. >> not going to happen. president, good luck the new president of france is much more on the same pain as president obama as it relates to the economy. likes stimulus. likes that kind of stuff. the president has been trying to get europeans to borrow more and stimulate their economy more. so he has help in that. remember the situation for every incumbent not just in the u.s. but in europe is very dire. they have concerns at hole. they will come over here and make a good show of it but looks pretty unlikely the president can get them to do anything because they have enough trouble at home
without --. megyn: before i get you go. could you pop the full screen up there and showing debt how great it is in it lally ireland, port gal, greece, not to mention, france, belgium and germany? would you do business, folks, with somebody's debt was more than they make. was more than that 100% of what they make? is that somebody you want to give money to or have money in their banks? that is the situation we find ourselves. >> that is a great question. i would add though, that the u.s. has to look at its own problems a these countries have to look at their own problems. it is unlikely i would say the president of france came over said, hey, president obama i need your help. make sure your economy is fine, i can get reelected. it won't wash. vice versa, turns to france and germany says, please fix it, i need to get reelected. we've got problems and violence in the street in europe. megyn: we don't need to be lectured to by the american president. i don't know. we'll watch it. thanks, guys. >> you bet. megyn: we put together a
couple more numbers today to show why the american economy is so threatened by things going on in europe. ratio of debt we owe to the total economy over 100% for first time since world war ii. we're living in a glass house as we make fun of those other nations. u.s. is still dealing with high unemployment. 22 million americans are out of work or underemployed in low-paying jobs to make ends meet. don't forget america's sterling aaa credit rating downgraded first time ever last summer. protests marking the graduation ceremonies at georgetown university. the nation's oldest jesuit catholic college under fire for inviting health and human services secretary connect lien sebelius to speak an event. she was key in implementing president obama's health care law.
[shouting] megyn: wow!. >> spent my entire life in public service. megyn: and on she goes. in any event she was key backing health care law, which includes a mandate some catholics see assault on religious freedom. lauren green live on campus of georgetown university where it was very controversy when announced mrs. sebelius would be speaking. lauren? >> reporter: you're absolutely right, megyn. health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius appearance at georgetown university was met with applause and protests. pro-abortion catholic, sebelius, architect of president obama's health care bill and as you mentioned controversial mandate caused a cauldron of discontent with u.s. bishops. she was heckled early on in her speech with one protester yelling you murderer. some protesters were outside the room and could not gain access to the room. they were taken out by
police and both spoke to the press afterwards. >> equal opportunity offenders, we will go after republicans. we will go after catholics. we will go have evangelicals. we will go after democrats. we will go after anybody that claims to be a christian but believes that it is okay to murder unimportant babies. >> reporter: after the hecklers were taken away the family and the graduates actually applauded secretary sebelius, just showing her support. she herself never acknowledged protesters, continued on to encourage the public policy institute grads to work for the common good. >> ultimately public policy is about making difficult choices and today, there are very serious debates underway about the direction of our country. people have deeply-held beliefs on all side of these discussions, you as public policy leaders, will be called on to help move these debat forward. >> reporter: no arrests were
actually made but the hecklers are now banned from the georgetown university campus for at least one year. but, secretary sebelius's here at georgetown fueled the larger controversy over the ideas of religious freedom as more and more groups start to weigh in on the issue of religious freedom and how you define it. megyn. megyn: lauren green. thank you. should point out kathleen sebelius is pro-choice, not necessarily pro-abortion which is term used by some of her detractors however. we're getting breaking news on attorney general eric holder and congress's request for information on "operation fast and furious", the failed gun-running sting linked to the death of at least one u.s. border agent. we'll tell you what some house gop members say they will be forced to do if mr. holder's office does not pony up the requested documents. and, president obama will speak with world leaders about iran this weekend as the u.s. reveals an attack plan for iran that we've already got in our back pocket. why are we talking about this now?
why are we apparently shifting our language? general jack keane is here next with his thoughts. when trayvon martin was shot last february the media headlines proclaimed, trayvon martin's death, galvanizes the nation for social justice. that's a quote. but after a treasure trove of new evidence was release last night, the headlines today seem to take a very different tone. we will be joined by one of the nation's top criminal defense attorneys, if not the top criminal defense attorney, alan dershowitz as well as noted media critic, bernie goldering about the both here together. this is unprecedented to discuss what we have learned from this case. >> when we heard the shot i looked out and that's when i saw a two men on the, on the grass. >> okay, you saw two people? >> two people. >> and they were, were they both on the ground? >> no. one was on top of the other. i don't know which one. hey dad.
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megyn: fox news alert. house republican leaders say the clock is ticking for attorney general eric holder to turn over more information to investigators, congressional investigators, when it comes to the gun-running sting known as "operation fast and furious" that has now been linked to the death of one border patrol agent. in a letter to mr. holder released just a couple hours ago house speaker john boehner alongwith majority leader eric cantor and house majority whip kevin mccarthy express serious concerns about the department of justice's lack of cooperation with the subpoena. that is how the republicans see it. while they stopped short threatening a contempt of congress charge but we have reports there is one drafted, they did warn if they do not get more information from the department of justice in the coming weeks they will act to fulfill their quote, constitutional obligations in the case if it is necessary. this has been a big question.
issa's group and others may want condemn but will -- contempt, but will boehner allow it to move forward? leave you to decide. the united states is warning iran of possible military action just two days before world leaders meet with president obama for the g8 summit but the iranians already know what they were up against so why the new warning that america has attack plans ready in its back pocket? why now right before tomorrow's critical gathering? joining me to discuss it, retired u.s. army general jack keane fox news military analyst. sir, welcome back. we already said we've got this as an option. military option is on the table and so on but we seem to be getting more vocal about it. is that a diplomacy move? >> i think it is more about the israelis. the israelies are hugely skeptical about the value of these negotiations that we're about to get back into them. i think we're trying to calm them to a certain degree. the fact of the matter the
israeli as concern is this one these negotiations have been going on and off for 10 years and iranian program continues to be developed. that is concern one. second, they washed us, the united states use negotiations as our center of our policy with the north koreans and we wound up negotiating ourselves right into a nuclear weapon with the north koreans. so they look at negotiations very, very skeptical. what we're trying to say to them, look it, if these negotiations fail we have got a backup plan and we would do the military strike. i'm not sure the israelis buy that. megyn: right. doesn't seem like it given the comments we heard from benjamin netanyahu saying he has seen no evidence whatsoever that iran is serious about stopping this program. and they see this as another opportunity to deceive and delay just like north korea did for years. now, so we come out, the reason i ask whether it's a diplomacy move, ambassador bolton said before the way diplomacy is done, you scare them, you scare iran into believing we'll bomb you into kingdom come if you
proceed with this nuclear effort. you might never have to do it if you convince them that you do stand ready to do it. he thinks the obama administration hasn't been vocal enough on that front. let me ask you, do you believe we have a plan in place and do you believe we would actually execute that plan and under what circumstances? >> well, no doubt we h have a plan in place. we've gone over it many times so our people know what will to do and how to do it and the israelies are aware of that plan as well. so make no mistake about that. the issue is would we actually do that or not? the fact we wire brushed israelies in full public view when they were talking about executing a military strike themselves casts huge doubt in the minds of the iranians i believe, who is the target audience as you suggest, about our own commitment to do a military strike if we're beating up the israelis who are desiring to do one themselves. what is that saying about our policy and is that option realisticly on the table? i would like to think it is
realistically on the table and communicate that to the iranians that we're dead serious about this and we'll use this option if you don't voluntary give the program up. i'm not convinced we've done that. megyn: you say we need more statements along this line and mean it? >> done privately. also we need to impose, complete, tough, crippling sanctions on iranians. megyn: are we doing that? >> no, we're metering these things. every few months something else drops. should be simultaneous simultaneous crippling sanctions. stop doing business with international shippers doing trading all over the world. covert operation to include cyberattack. some of that i'm sure we're doing. megyn: now next week we have the big meeting so-called p5 plus germany meeting withtae rage over the nuclear program. they will have a big powwow in baghdad and talk about the future of that program. going to do anything? >> if history is our guide,
it will not. it permits the iranians to have a public relations event that they're willing to negotiate. i buys them some more time to continue with the program but every single time we have done this it has been one step back, two steps forward in terms of the development of the program. sadly i that's probably what would happen here. megyn: reminds me of college when debt collectors would call me, i would say, give me another week or two i swear put check in mail. they stop calling me for couple weeks and didn't put the check in the mail. eventually i did i think. general keane, you always paid your bills. i can tell by looking at you. >> you're right. megyn: not that i wasn't paying them. way was paying more on quarterly basis. turns out they objected to that. they are giving me emphatic wrap in my ear. they don't care. coming up the keystone oil pipeline is supposed to carry 800,000 barrels of crude per day from the oil sand in alberta, canada, to
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megyn: well the keystone pipeline was supposed to run from alberta, canada, to our gulf coast and carry an estimated 3 1/2 million barrels of badly-needed oil every day more than a century. it is facing new opposition as critics say the payoff is not worth the environmental risks. john roberts streaming live from the town of wood buffalo, in alberta, to talk about what that means. john? >> reporter: good afternoon,
to you, megyn. a lot of environmental groups opposed to keystone pipeline. other american environmental groups opposed to development of the oil sands. here is what is at stake here. think of a swimming pool the size of the state of florida. then fill it up with oil. that is how much oil is here. third largest reserve in the world. shovels and dump trucks all built in the united states, that creates american jobs and canadians only too happy to put the oil in a pipeline and send it south to the united states. stephanie sterling is with shell oil here in canada. >> this is a secure, reliable, source of energy. there is no animosity between our countrys. we're generating economic profitability for both of the countries. the jobs creation is huge as is the business development and investment going on between our countries. it is just a natural fit. >> reporter: now environmental groups have a big problem with those huge open mines and they do have
tremendous impact on the environment. but 80% of the oil can't be reached through mining. it is reached through new technologies drilling horizontal mines injecting high pressured, super-heated steam into the oil sand formation to get the oil out that will also dramatically increase the production of oil mr. alberta. if the oil doesn't go down to the keystone pipeline it will go somewhere else like china or india. the industry here can't understand why the president killed the keystone pipeline proposal. >> there is disappointment and confusion why. this makes sense. state department said a as much on all levels. should go forward. we unfortunate got caught you will in politics. weill make sense from energy supply and. >> reporter: last week a war of words erupted over oil sand, james hanson, nasa's chief climate scientist and canada's environmental minister. hanson said if allowed to develop oil sand will be game over environment. the climate minister said
that was hyperbole are fear-mongering and unscientific slander. language you typically expect at a hockey game but not from the reserved environment minister. they're very passionate about this. megyn: very passionate people in wood buffalo. see you, john. wood buffalo. i like it. since a treasure trove of new evidence was released last not in the killing of trayvon martin we're hearing a very different tone from some in the media. joining us next to discuss the latest developments in this case, one of the most famous and top criminal defense attorneys in the world, alan dershowitz, alongwith one of the most noted and respected media critics, bernie goldberg. both are here to discuss what we learned from how this case that was big enough to get a mention from the president, was handled by our opinion leaders and our political leaders from then to now. >> he goes, i got blood on my face? he goes, yeah, you have blood all over, man. then i look he has you got
blood on back of your head. are you all right man? he goes, guy was beating up on me so i had to shoot him and crowd cheering so, i'm walking down the street, sfx: sounds of marching band and crowd cheering just you know walking, sfx: sounds of marching band and crowd cheering and i found myself in the middle of this parade sfx: sounds of marching band and crowd cheering honoring america's troops., sfx: sounds of marching band and crowd cheering which is actually in tquite fitting becauseade sfx: sounds of marching band and crowd cheering geico has been serving e military for over 75 years. aawh no, look, i know this is about the troops and not about me. right, but i don't look like that. who can i write a letter to about this? geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.
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headlines immediately suggesting that the shooting was motivated by race and that it brought up memories of the sieve rights era. members of congress piled on. some talked about it echoes of emmett till, the grizzly murder of a chicago teen back in the 1950s that helped trigger the civil rights movement. look at headlines today. after trayvon martin's autopsy and major pieces of evidence in the case have been made public. look at that. cop witnesses back up zimmerman's version. zimmerman's account of killing corroborated. you see some of the samples then. what has changed a few months after the story first broke? joining me, bernie goldberg, a noted media critic and fox news analyst. plus we welcome back alan dershowitz, world reknowned attorney and legal scholar and author of the origin of human rights in the experience of injustice. gentlemen, thank you so much for being here. alan, let me start with you on this.
you've been critical of this case on the prosecution side from the beginning. in the wake of what we saw released yesterday, where do you stand now? >> well my views haven't changed. they have just been corroborated. right from the beginning the prosecution knew that zimmerman had bruises on the back of his head. they knew he had a broken nose. they had access to the full-face photograph. they knew the forensics. they just submitted false affidavits and generated the media frenzy. the finger of responsibility points clearly at prosecutor. she raised expectations by politically indicting zimmerman for second-degree murder when there was never any basis. now the evidence has come forward and almost all the media recognizes the situation's changed. one media hasn't "the new york times". "the new york times" still reports as if the evidence is overwhelming that zimmerman is guilty. indeed they end a story in today's newspaper shockingly by quoting an unnamed source that made a phone call to the police alleging that zimmerman may have some
racist tendencies. that violates the "time"'s own policy about sourcing. they would never have written such a statement about an unsourced allegation by an unnamed person regarding trayvon martin. "the times" has a position on this case and it allows that position to influence its reporting. megyn: why are they doing that, bernie? why have we seen, why did we see the media, so many in it rush to judgment in the beginning? >> because there is a storyline that was established from the beginning and it was the perfect storyline for a media that is overwhelmingly liberal. but it isn't just liberals in the media that have behaved recklessly, also a lot of liberals outside the media and many in politics. give you a few examples. there was the black congresswoman from florida who said trayvon martin was hunted down like a rabid dog. there was the white congresswoman from illinois who said, his death was a
modern day-lynching. there was the black congressman from georgia who said he was executed, executed because he was walking while black in a gated community. there was "the new york times" that gave valuable op-ed space to an author that said trayvon martin was shot dead in cold blood. there was "the new york times" that described george zimmerman as a white hispanic because they needed the word white in there in order to further the storyline of a white person killing a black kid. horrors of all horrors, if it was a hispanic who killed a black kid. that wouldn't be interesting. and then there was the nbc editing, producer editing the tape to make zimmerman look like a racist. look. jon: megyn, i don't know what happened that night. i still don't know what happened that night but i do know this. a lot of people have behaved, race is much too sensitive to handle as loosely and as
cavalierly as too many people have. they should be held accountable. >> bernie, painted too broad a brush. this is not a liberal conservative issue. i'm a liberal. i'm unapologetic liberal, liberal democrat. i call them as i see them. and i saw this as you say, i don't know what happened but i know that the evidence seems to corroborate much of zimmerman's story and i also left out one fact they found, marijuana in the body of trayvon martin. you call them as you see them. i think, my e-mails include plenty of criticisms of me by conservatives saying i'm typical defense attorney. always finding people innocent. there are conservatives who rush to judgment. there are liberals who rush to judgment. when anybody does whatever their label they ought to be criticized for it but i don't think you should paint so broad a brush. megyn: go ahead, bernie. >> let me respond, alan. couple things. that's why i was specific as i was naming who the people were, that's number one the
congress people. >> right. >> number two, i covered you when i was reporter to the "cbs evening news." by dan rather, i don't mean to embarass you you were as honest anybody i ever interviewed. that is going back 20, 25 years. and consistently, over the years, alan, you don't have to acknowledge this, i wish and i have a suspicion that you wish there were more liberals as honest as you. >> i appreciate that, thank you very much. megyn: too much after love-fest. we have can't have that on cable news. >> no. megyn: alan, let me ask you this. this is critical sentence. it will not be evidence because opinion from the police is not evidence. >> right. megyn: i think this is what the case will boil down to. one of the detectives wrote on that night, the encounter between george zimmerman and trayvon martin was ultimately avoidable by zimmerman. if zimmerman had awaited in his vehicle and awaited arrival of law enforcement. this appears to me to be the prosecution's case. they will admit there there
was confrontation they will admit trayvon martin was on top of george zimmerman pummeling him. they will admit somehow the second confrontation ensued. we don't know who instigated it. but they will say it was all zimmerman's fault because he stalked trayvon and set the scene for the second confrontation and trayvon's twice to led the two men encounter each other in deadly way. >> that may be true. i don't think anybody will be able to prove that will be true, zimmerman gets self-defense. he loses stan your ground statute. but he still has self-defense. megyn: does he get self-defense, alan, respond to pummeling with fist with a gun? >> absolutely. no question. somebody is on top of you, anybody in the audience or anybody on here tonight. somebody on top of you banging your head against the ground. already broken your nose. already bloodied your eyes. he might kill you. he might injury you. he might cause permanent
brain damage. any of us in that situation if we had a gun would pull it and use it if we had no choice but to allow ourselves to be pummeled or allow him to get the gun. so it doesn't matter who started the initial encounter, even if zimmerman started it and he was wrong. by the way policeman is probably right. but for zimmerman, getting out of his car, if zimmerman had in fact listened to the police this may not have happened. he may be the but the for cause but nonetheless under the laws of florida, and under the laws of most just exdids he entitled to self-defense. state concedes it can not prove who started the actual physical fight f the state could prove that zimmerman actually started the fight and started to beat up martin and martin got the better of him, under some state law he would not be able to use perfect self-defense. he would have to resort to what is called imperfect self-defense which would be manslaughter. under florida law he gets full self-defense even if he started initial matter getting out of his car as
long as he was in a position where he could save his life and his health only by resorting to lethal force. megyn: you don't lose all right to defend yourself when you find yourself in the situation even if you are the one -- i want to get to bernie on this one. one thing to have legal analysts come out from the beginning in the middle, and end see how the evidence is unfolding that is nature of news today. that's what we do. americans want to hear what people think who know about the law. it is another to have journalists so-called street journthatists tell you a story in a way biased and influence the american people and have congresspeople come out and really put their thumbs on the scale and offering their judgement. why is it, why, why in this case, as we saw saw in the duke fake rape case, this case we don't know what the truth is. that case we know, are some so anxious to take a side? >> well, at the risk of offending alan dershowitz again, in the, what does the
duke rape case and the trayvon martin case have in common? 88 professors in, at duke university, i safe bet, there were 88 liberal protefrs decided to convict these kids. so did the civil rights establishment. so did several columnists in "the new york times." and here, you have a story that rang all the liberal bells. i mean that's the sense i'm talking about liberals. being, it being a liberal problem, not just in the media. but what i'm concerned about as they say, going forward is how could anybody who thought that he was hunted down like a rabid dog, that he was lynched in a modern day lynching, that he was shot in cold blood, how could they accept any verdict other than a guilty verdict? we don't know that that is going to happen. that is the problem. and, the prosecutor, alan, might be a better person, to say if i'm right about this,
but i suspect the prosecutor, not just the population at large, was influenced by this, by this media feeding frenzy. >> no doubt about that. she both was influenced by it and helped to create it. after all one much her policemen used the term profiling and admitted he had no evidence there was any profiling. she was appointed to stop race riots. that was her job. as she put it to do justice to trayvon martin not to zimmerman, not to do justice period but just to do justice to the alleged victim in this case. she has a terrible reputation in florida for always overcharging and she was picked specifically for that. and she has raised expectations. second-degree murder. no jury except one frightened at the new black panthers might kill them if they vote for a quittal, or cause a race riot, no fair jury will find anybody here guilty of second-degree murder. expectations are raised. if there are demonstrations or riots, the finger of responsibility points at the prosecutor. megyn: this is a -- >> i would say the
prosecutor and media. megyn: two very well-known and very smart guys, appreciate hearing your insights on it. >> thank you. megyn: all right. that is interesting. those guys are interesting tv. tell me it ain't so. it is. coming up next, john travolta in new hot water facing yet another accuser over alleged sexual misconduct. we have five depending on your count but some of the accusers are in some drama of their own as gloria allred officially enters in case. "kelly's court" sup next. over the south pacific in 1943. i got mine in iraq, 2003. usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because offers a superior level of protection, and because usaa's commitment to serve the military, veterans and their families is without equal. begin your legacy, get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve.
megyn: "kelly's court" back in session. on the docket. more accusations of sexual misconduct, against john travolta. yet another new accuser. this time a massage therapist in new york. he joins at least four other men we know of, other ma sewers, ship worker gym employee, claimed tra volt that acted grossly inappropriately in a manner
not invited. if that is not if you have enough more drama among attorneys representing two alleged lives who are filing lawsuits. one of those attorneys is gloria allred. joining me with latest and analysis, jonna spilbor, former prosecutor and defense attorney and joey jackson, former prosecutor and now defense attorney. jonna, you have five, four or five guys, maybe six, at least telling stories. if i can tell you number of e-mails get every day claim they saw travolta doing something. none is verified. these are accusations. he vehemently denies. it at what point the saturation point where the lawsuits or not the man's reputation is already ruined? >> that probably already has happened. today it is five. tomorrow 500. none will have merit. i see another case of another celebrity getting extorted by get rich quick schemers.
what is the proof here? he said against he said. we will never have anymore proof and damage is done. megyn: who has prove, joey? where is the proof? is there ever proof in situation like this where somebody allegedly sexuallying assaulting you. you don't take pictures of it. where is the proof? >> her is the problem, mig gain. the three things concern me, is number of allegations the at one point do you say everyone is lying or conspiring against travolta. you look at atlanta allegation with masseuse and california, seattle, all parts of the united states. that is number one. that is a problem and circumstantially, you know what? is everyone making it up? second thing the nature of allegations. they're tremendously consistent. meaning everyone seems to have some type of similarity with the claim concerning his groping and concerning his improper conduct. third thing that concerns me, megyn. when you add number one and add number two together, now you look at number three. none.
parties are known to each other. you don't have argument there is collusion. brought tresses each other's claims or established bias. if you look at proof, proof in large measure is circumstantial evidence. and circumstantially with these things taken together the weight of the evidence is there to suggest this may have occurred. megyn: john travolta's attorney come out, martin singer, a heavy hitter out there is vehement in denials. going taf everybody, both guns blazing they're all liars and after money. when you have a client like john travolta come to you, you tell me, when john travolta goes to marti singer and says, i have this problem, what kind of conversation did those two men have? >> they have a very honest conversation the first thing attorney wants to know do we quietly settle this or do we not? if john travolta is adamant they're making it up he has to take a stance and not write the check that everybody wants them to right. the conversation has to be completely honest between
the two. megyn: if you're the lawyer for john travolta do you want to know the truth? did you do it or didn't you? >> i want to always know the truth whether i can handle the truth or not. part of good representation. the other party knows what happened. so you might as well know what happened so you can defend against it and not create a faulty foundation. anything premised on a faulty foundation will fail. therefore you have to know. to jonna's point writing a check at what point do you stop writing checks? seems like allegations are endless here. megyn: i want to ask you what the conversation was likely to have, how it went, after the break.
generally try them but settles them because she scares the other side with her media power which is likely to happen in this case, no? >> oh, absolutely. that is very significant advantage to have, when you're going out in the press and she was a measure of credibility with her, obviously there will be some scare tactics that will be used in order to prevent these people from coming forward and saying listen, john travolta did do this, as a result just cut me a check and let us end it now here. megyn: don't you think the plaintiffs would have gone to travolta's attorney, ones coming out of the woodwork, okay, mr. singer, i got a guy too and he is about to come out as well. he has proof. has timeline that works. is it possible they are already cutting checks and there are more plaintiffs about whom we will never know? >> could that be happening? yes. but from the stance that, john travolta's attorney is taking i don't think that is likely. his position is basically, you know what? bring it on. let's go toe-to-toe. >> is that for us?
for the media, is that just for the media? >> i want to say no. this could be a case where john travolta saying i did not do this i don't want my reputation sullied and i will see gloria allred in court where we never see her. i think that is the position she is taking. megyn: joey, i'm john travolta and this is the remember the duke case, you have all been told fantastic lies. no hedging. never ever in any way. marti singer is suggesting that. we have yet to hear from the star. will we? >> exactly. we may very well hear from the star but there are two elements here briefly, megyn. the one, marti singer has to preserve his client's reputation and that is very significant because it goes to his future earning potential and the fact he has connection with us, right, we want to go and patronize his movies and trust him. the other is the fact that there is legal issue here marti singer has to guard against. with those two things combined interest to let the thing go away and prevent
the people from continuing to come out the woodwork. megyn: if we represented john travolta saying you have to make it go away. so disadvantage, such as disadvantage to have it out there the in media like this. jonna, joey, thank you so much. >> pleasure megyn. megyn: we'll be back, don't go away [ banker ] mike and brenda found a house that they really wanted. it was in my sister's neighborhood. i told you it was perfect for you guys. literally across the street from her sister. [ banker ] but someone else bought it before they could get their offer togher. we really missed a great opportunity -- dodged a bullet there. [ banker ] so we talked to them about
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>>megyn: and follow me i hope you have a great weekend. >>shepard: today, therations underway not campaign cash trial, against the former presidential candidate, and senator, john edwards. and the jury is now making, are offering some very specific requests. plus, despite what you may have seen on tv there is but one official medal in the united states mint commemorting the attacks of