tv Geraldo at Large FOX News May 20, 2012 10:00pm-11:00pm EDT
>> i am geraldo rivera live and at large in los angeles tonight. analyzing the probe of documents and witness videotapes released in the last several days in the trayvon martin murder case. in examining that powerful evidence i must say it is difficult to see how the special prosecutor can justify a charge of murder.
suspending my judgment let's hear now from the two fine attorneys at the heart of this the nation's most closely watched criminal case. for the family of the victim. and accomplished defense attorney omira. both received time marks for their advocacy in their case and prudence in dealing with a situation that otherwise could have been explosive. welcome on board tonight. appreciate you coming on. let me if i may start with you. i know you are mad for the remarks i made on o'reilly show friday night. my brother craig told me you called. putting that aside, and we will get into that, this was i think you field the headline in everything that had been released is that this was ultimately an avoidable confrontation avoidable by
zimmerman? >> i concluded avoidable had he just stayed in his car and not got out of the rain and profiled and confronted sent off trayvon mountain. he had been charged with murder and trayvon would be alive. >> mark omira, difficult to deny what ben crump just said, isn't it? i mean if the cops believe and the evidence seems to suggest that all george had to do is stay in the car and trayvon martin would be alive today. >> either mr. crump nor i are not allowed to do that under unethical rules he should not have been in the car. had he been doing the target had trayvon martin not been in the subdivision. the reality is we have to deal with what did happen not what might have happened and of course when all of the evidence comes out maybe connect as to
why it would be more apparent. we have to wait until all of the evidence is there. >> we would say to ms. omira the biggest what if happens here is if george zimmerman doesn't disoy pobey police and neighborhood watch principal not to pursue but just neighborhood watch then trayvon is living. he could have called the police. the police would have handled this just fine. that is the problem here. he profiled him and acted on that profile. you can't do that. >> oo let me ask the question here rather than ask mark and go with zing and zaning heg here. are you troubled by the fact that several witnesses appeared to have backed george zimmerman's account that what he did was in self defense that
trayvon was on top of him using martial arts style and george zimmerman were crying out for help as many as 20 times? >> not at all. he is white. zimmerman deserves a fair trial and jury will decide the evidence. everybody has the evidence now in the public consumption. everybody can look at it for themselves. you need to look at all of the evidence. look at the witness statements that say they were not on the ground when the gun was fired. look at the witness statements that say it was zimmerman on top of trayvon and look at the medical records. it says he has a one-inch laceration on his forehead and only one mark on top of his head and he had minimal bleeding. that is important. that is going to explain why he didn't go to the hospital that night and trayvon martin only had one-quarter to one 8th of an inch on his left ring finger.
that was his only injury. it is real important that we look at the evidence thoroughly before you try to jump to conclusions. most importantly if there was an altercation between the two, then it is because george zimmerman confronted trayvon martin. his own words say listen to this 911 tape. he said he is getting away and he started chasing him. at the same time the young lady on the phone and we got the phone records that say they were both talking about the same time and she said trayvon was running away. if objective evidence -- that's why you have a second degree murder conviction and therefore evidence for cause but prosecutor would not have charged george zimmerman with second degree murder if they feel they cannot get a conviction. the evidence will come out and i am sure attorney omira will get the evidence before any of us. >> the order responded to then
broader points? >> i am very surprised he said things he could talk about specific pieces of evidence when we as lawyers have included prohibited from doing so under our ethical rules. we as lawyers are supposed to floel thfollow the preseptember that we follow this case in the courtroom both the prosecutor and i and mr. crump representing the victim's family are bound by those ethical rules. i wish wicked abi -- i wish we could abide. >> ben hold it. this is my question. it has not to do with the evidence. i am asking you ben crumb for your state of mind are you troubled that several witnesses appeared to back george zimmerman's account of this fatal encounter? >> not at all, geraldo. this is not a complicated case. if the shoe would have been on the other foot and trayvon martin had shot george zimmerman
nobody would say this is complicated. he would be charged with first degree murder. we would call it truthfully and honestly that we know that he would have been charged and nobody would say this is a hard case. >> mark omira what is your plan? will you at any point would you consider a plie rangement where we could settle this with neglect manslaughter which is what i think it should have been charged with initially? is there any -- has your client given you any instructions in that regard? >> i will tell you those decisions if they were ever made would have been made well after we have all of the evidence. i have less than half. you have less than i have. it is way too early. take a deposition and find out what 9 witnesses really say.
>> let me ask you another state of my questions. are you in any way -- is your concern alleviateed by the fact that several witnesses appear to back your clients? >> it issal leaf yated by the fact that we are finally getting evidence out. my concern has been people have acted out of prejudging the case without the evidence. you and i only now know some of it. those people who have made up their minds have seen less than we do. my fear is that prejudging of the case is going to continue through society, through our nation and even into the jury who is supposed to be able to hear this case unbiassed. that's my greatest concern. >> gentlemen, just put it on pause. we will take a break. we will go to the commercial. if the state, though, fails to convict zimmerman, a question that is being asked is will the federal government step in? will they charge a hate crime?
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>> he was punching him like a mixed marshall artist. what does sglirm man do? he cries out and he shoots him so close that the muzzle blast sings the clothing of the man. >> his body when it was discharged. it could have been while they were on the ground or standing up. can't tell from the autopsy. >> it was fired at close range. >> fired at very close range. the muzzle right next to the skin and then it went straight in. straight in through the heart. >> mark omira and jenning minbep my esteemed guest. you first. is george zimmerman in florida? w
what was his state of mind to the extent your lawyer client privilege allows you to tell us? >> we can't discuss it. there's a lot of ken for his safety. he is anxious to get the process started and glad that it has finally started again at the evidence. we can move forward with depositions. he has to live in hiding but he is working through it all. we know for sure mr. sglirm man shot and killed the unarmed teenager 7 or so weeks ago and then trayvon was committing no crime at all. assuming he is acquitted are you worried the defense will come after your client with a hate crime allegation? >> that is their investigation. i will leave them to it and look forward to see what they are doing in that regard. i think that information should be available to us as part of the defense team. i believe that the state attorneys have done what they could do to come up with whatever charges they could. they have not started it or filed a hate crime charge. we will see how it goes.
i leave them up to their investigation. then ben crump the reason i mentioned on the owe rile will he -- o'reilly show the hood de was the surveillance from 7-11. it is such a contrast to what he really looked like as opposed to the little boy pictures. that's the only reason. if he had taken that dam hood off his head if he and zimmerman had only spoken. what are you doing? i am here with my father's fiancee. you are not supposed to be here. don't you think it would have avoided this awful tragedy? >> two points. mark zucker berg ceo facebook one of the richest mans in the world wears a hood de every day. you mean to tell me if mark zuckerberg you could be profiled and killed by george sglirm man. they both wear the same uniform a hood de and jeans, what's the difference between the two?
>> the difference is in the eye of george zimmerman, isn't it? isn't that the only subjective viewpoint? when you talk about defense and why the encounter was initiated isn't that what counts? >> people can make fun all they want. >> he should be free to whaear what he wants to wear. in your segment it is racist who says a woman's skirt was too short is -- rapist says a woman's skirt was too short, you sant do that. >> what do you think about hate crimes prosecution? >> i believe with attorney om a omira's prosecution. we can't talk about kids any of that kind of stuff. that is up to the prosecutor or mr. omira at the appropriate time. we don't want to try this case on television. all i came to tell you is you
can't profile people and act on it. >> you profile and call the police and but kaunt act on it. everybody says a black man is walking in this neighborhood going to the store with a hood de up you can shoot him. you can't do that. it's wrong anywhere there's no location for that. the last thing i will sis this. you are embarrassing your son again by making these statements. >> mark, you want to give us 30 seconds? >> quickly that i am presuming nobody will suggest that we as citizens should close our prisons and lock o-- close our curtains and lock our doors and not become involved in our neighborhoods and try to make it better. somebody may have been doing what they thought was right looking into what was happening in his neighborhood donesn't mae it wrong per se.
we will only find out who started the fight who did what, who sustained what injuries after the evidence is in and how that progression may have led to the unfortunate shooting of trayvon martin. that will only happen after all of the evidence. we have to stop freending we know what the evidence is until it is in. >> thank you very much. fast and furious, is it a cancer growing in the heart of the justice department or is it a political persecution? who is right.
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the committee chairman darrel issa and attorney general holder be in con tem ttempt of congres request for documents. is this a leggett idea for a political witch hunt as holder justice implies. let's ask congresswoman an marie republican of new york. thank you for being with me. what about attorney general holder's contention that going after him for political gain? oo well, unfortunately he is choosing to make it a political argument. what we are looking for are answers for the terri family, answers for the whistleblowers and if the attorney general would comply with the request this could all go away. the purpose of a contempt is actually not a contempt of congress is not really to find out blame. it really is to compel these to
give us the information don't withhold any of the documents. it is a long established poll seep and right of the congress to have over sights. that is a legitimate function of the congress over site of the legislative branch over the executive branch. that is what this is all about. a young man, a marine and police officer and then now he was a security officer was killed with a gun that was allowed to walk from this very fraught operation. this family deserves answers and that is what this is all about. >> you are not alleging that the attorney general had any control over this operation are you that he knew the guns were walking to mexico? >> if he didn't know somebody knew. there probably were 7 wiretaps that were used. in order to get an approval for the wire tap or a use of a wire
tap they had to go to the superior office of the department of justice and review the affidavits and get approval for the wire tap. someone knew and who knew and who approved the use of the wire tap? at least we get to that. we conflicting reports that is another concern a letter that was sent to the chairman and then retracted from doj from information that wasn't false and wasn't true. our sense is there is stone walling going on and failure to disclose and failure to give us the documents so we can really find out who is to bleaame for e flawed operation. >> thank you for being on. appreciate it. >> will smith smacked a guy who face plants a big smooch. john travolta gets smacked with
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and bruises. people gathering by thousands of protestors early in the day. the future of the war in afghanistan the focus at the summit meeting. nato secretary general saying there's no quote for the rush for the exits despite france's plans to pull their troops out early. the afghan leader saying he's looking forward to the dagen stan is snow longer a burden to the rest of the world. end quote. i am harris falkner. now let's get you back to geraldo at large from los angeles. >> >> what the hell is your problem? hey, sorry. >> joker. i am sorry. i did that on come raw. >> will smith backhanded a ue
rainian tv reporter that plant add big smooch on the men in black 3 during the moscow premiere tof the movie. will was in no mood to let the creepy kid in the white suit get away with tarnishing his image. he is definitely straight. he has a right to be angry. >> folks, hollywood from before the days of rock hudson on the right montgomery on the left has always been a place where gay men have led double lives. on the tonight show you will hear from the latest accusers in # the ongoing saga of john travolta. making a new bid for freedom claiming his defense attorneys did him wrong. >> this does appear to me from the testimony and exhibits that the crimes of con spur tspiracy commit a crime and robbery, burglary while in possession of
a firearm two counts of first degree kidnapping, who counts of robbery with use of a deadly weapon, two counts of assault with use of deadly weapon and two counts of coercion with a deadly weapon have been committed and there is sufficient evidence that simpson have committed said offenses. >> it was an expected result. he expected it. mienl regret about being in vegas and trying this preliminary hearing over the past four-days is we didn't have a jury seated now. if there was a jury seated now my client would be on the way home and this would be over. >> that would well-known lawyer yale galanter defending o.j. simpson in the trial for armed robbery back in 2007. as convicts often do simpson is appealing his conviction alleging his lawyers failed to adequately defend him.
three well connected guests are on board tonight to discuss this latest appeal. they are mark fuhrman the former lapd detective to investigated simpson's alleged double murder of his ex-wife and friend ron goldman here in los angeles in 1994. sitting along side me in l.a. the memorabilia collector who some say helped set simpson up in the bizarre vegas stickup for which he was sentenced for between 9 and 33 years and our own vegas based sharpened attack legal analyst bob massi. welcome all. bob you first since the new attorneys are embracing simpson's original defense and he was just trying to retrieve his own property does this new appeal have any legs at all? >> well, the interesting part about it it is what we call writ of habeas corpus. you know the appeal the conviction was upheld but he found this 94 page document. here is what makes it
interesting. they are basically saying allegedly that he spoke with simpson the night before this occurrence happened at the palace station. more importantly, he says that if there is an evidence filed his co counsel mr. grass so who by the way there's a dispute not between himself but i have not read yet. in the allegation of the paper said that oj sump son wanted to testify in his own defense in this trial. now what makes that interesting is assuming there's any credence which i have no reason to say yes or no that he was told to get his stuff that would have made him a material witness when if he had gone on the stand and said ladies and gentlemen my lawyer told me to get the goods. that is what makes it interesting in how this thing could play out. >> that is fascinating bob massi. did o.j. simpson, you were there, did he ever tell you that his lawyer had told him that him
going to retrieve his own stuff was legal? >> as it is documented i went to the fbi. i told this fbi about the plan that okj had. i told oj that i went there and the fbi said listen we are not advising you to do something like this contact your lawyer. the conversation he had with his lawyer, i don't know exactly. it is between him and his lawyer. i told him the fbi said whatever you are doing make sure it is legal and talk to your lawyer to talk about it. i do know another thing i never set oj up he knows that. everybody else knows that. >> let's put your involvement aside. are you saying the fbi knew that this was going to happen before it happened? >> oh, yeah. that came out in the trial and everything. i went to them a coupfew days be that and told them this was going to happen. the fbi said listen we don't want to be involved in this contact your lawyers. >> but back to bob massi,
doesn't tom riccio's statements put tre buttress the fact that o.j. simpson and galanthra did have conversation ifs the fbi knew it would happen? >> i sat through most of the trial and there is truth to what he was saying. he was in town geraldo when it happened. so assuming this goes to evidential hearing which means witnesses will be allowed to put on the stand. one thing is in interest to all of us in both cases ok.j. simpsn never testified. if the judge calls for a hearing he will most likely take the witness stand. >> you think this was really about what happened in las vegas or was this about what happened in 1994. >> i think it was about what happened in las vegas.
i think the opportunity was there to see this for what it was. it was actually o.j. simpson trying to retrieve items that were no longer his. the civil judgment took away all of his sports memorabilia from the house and he had his agent hide a lot of these items. these items weren't his. i mean it was a good robbery. he instructed somebody to make sure they had a gun. they went there. they roughed people up. it was a force or fear robbery and they took the advantage of this to take a boupounds of fle out of o.j. simpson the jury convicted him and the judge gave him the minimum e. has to do nine years. use of a gun. >> what about parole? >> parole is interesting. in the state of nevada he will come up for parole after the nine years mandatory. the parole board can hear his
parole plea and they can decline it and they don't have to see him again for five years. they could decline and say we are not going to see you for five years. when i think of a parole hearing i wonder what he will say to make a difference between the day he was convicted and the day that he goes up. i don't think there is anything he has done that would change their mind. >> are you suggesting that -- >> go ahead, please. >> i am sorry. geraldo, unrelated the evidence that is interesting in this motion file is this lawyer also who by the way is a very capable attorney. has also said that galanther should have file add motion to severe oj's case from stewart. tj stewart was convicted. brent bryson a capable criminal defense lawyer looked at the supreme court in the state of nevada and they ruled the district court judge allowing cj
to be a part of the oj case to prejudice him and he is out now to the contrary now he says oj should have been severed from the case. that was never raised by gollanther because there was co conspirator allegation that evidence should never have come in and they are raising this issue writ of habeas corpus. >> by going to the rit of habeas cor -- writ of habeas corpus. you are saying he has a beef here. >> they have said in order to literally get somebody's trial all over again you have to show this teft wdefendant was so pre. he didn't get his due process in the court of law. they found a motion to disqualify. this is amazing this case. the district attorney is steve
wolfson is married to jackie glass. jackie glass is the court judge. >> they are saying we don't want your office insured the da doing this case and calling for a special prosecutor and attorney general's office. it is a circus like it has always been with oj. >> you feel sorry for your boss? >> i guess so, yeah, i do. >> you wish it never happened? >> yeah, it is not a good situation. >> all right. oj is in jail nine years. 4-5 more years before he can get a parole hearing unless he wins this long shot motion. thank you gentlemen. thank you all. up next the national enquirer working hard to drag john travolta out of of the closet. the chief investigator show us what they have on the macho movie star.
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>> john travolta is a ter rifk actor. he is bombarded with lawsuits and other allegations charging the icon is an abusive gay man hungry for inappropriate sex. we have the gory details. >> mike with the national enquirer. the latest headline travolta's twisted life 30 years of lies the latest on travolta's woes. what is it about this guy? >> in my whole experience covering stories like this and covering show business i have never seen anything like this.
>> according to the enquirer a hollywood hunk macho image has been tarnished by 30 years of accusations encounters with mostly straight men claiming they were accosted or seduced by travolta. >> you have john doe number one, number two, number three. god knows how many. >> can't keep up with it. >> john's worst nightmare the inquire ir headline screams leading men allegedly targeted for sex. troubled grief co-star was one of them. connolly left a note before a failed suicide attempt in 2006 claiming john attempted to perform oral sex on him. travolta's attorney vehemently denies all of these allegations. >> i know that tabloids notoriously pay for stories. how do we know these guys aren't just cashing in? >> we do lie detector tests polygraphs we check known facts and sources we trust.
if someone says i was at the hilton hotel we have sources in in these thoels. we go to them is this true or can you verify whether it is true or not. there john travolta has had these stories popping up. literally these guys are coming out of the woodwork. i can promise you that. i know this for a fact. >> you have someone's private life that you are laying out to wear you are exposing them and it's really he said he said in these situations. only two people in the room really. >> john travolta tried to sub born him into prostitution. he wanted him to do a sexual act while he was doing a massage. if he had gone ahead with that let's say that guy was an under cover officer the cuffs would have come out and been on john travolta. that's not private life.
>> travolta was blast into the media blare in 2009 when his 16-year-old son suddenly died while the family vacationed in the bahamas. a photo of his male nanny who discovered the body kissing travolta on the lips was published in the magazine. >> why hasn't this come out why isn't this more in the forefront if it has been 30 years. >> he doesn't care about his private life. he comes out in public we are going to report on it. that is what is beyond each doing if he is really doing these things. the question is, is he gay? i can't say that john travolta is gay, but i do know he puts himself in these positions. but are they just stepping up for money? >> he is saying we pay for stories. we don't pay for all stories. that's a myth. to have all of these guys coming forward how much money are we going to make? what is singular about this story is there are so many.
>> so many a minnie war broke out about who represents these men. gloria allred a number of beautiful women claiming elicit affairs with tiger woods saying he is representing some of travolta's accusers. >> how does this play in the grand scheme of hollywood men with macho image and they have this secret life? >> back in the day 20, 30 years ago in hollywood this was like oh my god stuff. it is only when something like this happens where it is almost as if john is flirting with danger. >> think they will end up in court? >> i don't. i don't. somewhere somebody is going to get stamart and wise and put a stop to it no matter how they do it. >> where is john travolta? >> he is lying low for obvious reasons. he is in a gated community in ocala, florida.
attorney on your right. welcome both of you. hi. what do you think? is there strength in numbers? >> absolutely. in all of my cases of sexual battery cases once somebody comes out everybody joins the band wagon. you might say they want money. in other cases we didn't feel comfortable coming forward but somebody else does now now we want to come in on it. it is a problem with sexual assault cases once one victim comes forward then other people can come forward. >> how often does the celeb bring an action. it's one thing to buy off complain ant. how often are these really litigated and should this case if indeed travolta has been wrong here would you advise him to bring it?
>> it is rarely geraldo. what a celebrity wants to get this type of accusation out of the headlines as fast as possible. typically i never get to this point. typically the allegation is in letter form, celebrity attorney representatives saying look unless you give up x amount of dollars this is going to go public. that's your leverage. publicity is your leverage. once you give up the leverage you give up negotiating maneuver ability. >> what about gloria allred coming on board? >> you want an issue there because then it looks like the person is truly guilty because now he is keeping money or settling the case. you are dammed if you do and dammed if if you don't. but you really want issues now when there are so many people coming forward. if it ever gets into trial and those lawyers could show pattern or habit or routine that he really does have a problem.
>> again, let's say it goes that far, what is the real damage? my guess is john travolta would be willing to pay more money or any celebrity behind closed doors. if anybody knew about it then the jury wouldn't give what the damages are. the worse case scenario is john travolta touched himself while one of the guys was in the room. why didn't you say leave the room once he started getting crude? did he lock you in the room? there's no accusations of that. i doesn't know how far a lawsuit goes. once gloria allred is involved. >> what about her involvement? >> it becomes a circus. i have a lot of personal experience with that. once gloria comes in it becomes a media show. i am shocked she is not on your show tonight quite frankly. >> tomorrow on the rothe radio
show. >> i knew something was coming. >> i have to go. arthur ad arthur eye dal law i love you both. >> one more thing. i was last night speaking i was proud of this. speaking in if san diego for a benefit of the navy seals family foundation raising money to assist the rufrning warrio -- returning warriors and families reintegrate into civilian life. i am so happy and proud they gave me this wonderful gift. it's a model of the aircraft carrier colvin sent. widen it out. that was the vessel used to bury osama bin laden usto take out t terror mastermind a year ago. it is something i will always treasure. i want to thank jack kennedy and craig irving, courtney they did a wonderful job. of course the incomparable navy seals and service members for their brave service.
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