tv America Live FOX News June 27, 2012 1:00pm-3:00pm EDT
down in mexico. and while many democrats have sided with the attorney general, we are hearing close to two dozen democrats are prepared to break ranks and vote to hold the attorney general in contempt, that just breaking this hour. and that brings us to 2 p.m. eastern. capitol hill, a house committee will begin the contempt process against the attorney general. this after a pair of last-ditch meetings between the obama administration and top house republicans failed to resolve the conflict. and also failed to get brian terry's family the answers they desperately want. chris stirewalt is our fox news digital politics editor and host of "power play" on foxnews.com. chris, we began this segment a couple days ago talking about your column which said this is going to be a titanic-sized week for the president. we are in the middle of it. describe, just give the viewers a feeling for how high the stakes are and how closely the white house is monitoring these
events. >> well, megyn, think about this as the follow crumb point for the election, the 24-hour period on which the shape of the election hereafter we know will depend. the decision on this health law changes literally everything in the discussion. whatever the supreme court does, regardless of whether they affirm the whole thing, cut out its core provision which is forcing all americans to purchase insurance or if they take down the whole thing, the president is going to have to be digging his way out of problems. there are no real good political outcomes for him here, so he's certainly worried about that, but he has a practical battle that he's engaged in with congress about defending his controversial attorney general in this case that has blown up in a way that, certainly, the white house did not apparently predict. so this is the crucible through which the president has to pass, and his success or failure in the fall will depend on large part about how this next 24
hours go. megyn: it all happens at the tail end of a month that has not been good for the president. the national journal had written a piece saying if barack obama loses this election in november and people look back for the turning point in the election, they will look to the month of june. well, the news keeps coming with this contempt vote and the health care ruling set to come out. and now the polls appear to show a tightening of the presidential race, chris. you can see here it is 47% to, well, 47% approve of the job that barack obama is doing, 48% disapprove of the job he is doing, and the two men now are said to be neck and neck or within the margin of error when you look at the national polls, although barack obama's still ahead when it comes to the king states. politically, this is having consequences. >> this is certainly having consequences. and voters will tolerate a lot of things, a lot of things in a president, but they won't tolerate one who seems unlucky. and if a president looks snake bit, like he has trouble with
everything and there is always a new problem and republicans certainly are happy to oblige him with as many problems as they can think up, but if bad luck compounds that, if unforced error compounds that and there gets to be a sense that somebody is really snake bit, voters will turn off. so for the president he doesn't want this -- june has been so rotten, and really as we've talked about before, the general election started there at the end of march, the beginning of april. and since then the takeoff was rough and now there's a lot of turbulence. so for the president he needs to get through this moment and on into the part where his campaign strategy can get back to working. megyn: you talk about the supreme court which is, obviously, about to issue a major decision, the biggest we've seen at the high court in decades tomorrow. this seriously effects all americans and effects the president's political chances. the president came under a lot of fire for going after the supreme court a couple of months ago, seeming to warn them that they'd better not reverse this law, otherwise they'd be out of step with the constitution.
you know, folks on both sides of the aisle took offense at that. now jay carney is warning that it would reverse decades of precedent if they reverse this. now, that is the solicitor general's position. but, you know, we're a day out from the ruling, and he's making comments like that. my question for you, chris, is, is the white house in a weakened position to go after this high court as supremely partisan in the wake of an arizona immigration law ruling that saw a bipartisan, if you will, i mean, you had members from the right part of the bench and the left join together to strike down three out of four parts of that law. if they come out against the administration tomorrow in health care, how strongly can the president make the argument or jay carney, his spokesman, that this is just a bunch of partisan hacks? >> well, they'll make it pretty strongly. if it goes against them, you can bet that the team obama and democrats writ large will decry the bush supreme court packed with these radical
conservatives. it doesn't matter what they did because remember, megyn, this is washington where it doesn't really matter if what you're saying is true, it just matters if you say it loudly and convincingly. and, certainly, they will come after it hard. now, in time, and this is the problem about spin, is that you can only spin for so long and then sooner or later the top starts to get a little wobbly and falls over. i think you're very right that that decision favoring the government, favoring the obama administration in arizona and in the majority of the questions if not the crucial question will make it harder in the long term to maintain that top spinning. megyn: chris stirewalt, it's great to see you! [laughter] >> great to see you too, megyn. megyn: loud and convincing. big news day, comments from a man who came to attorney general eric holder's defense suggesting the whole fast and furious investigation leading to the contempt vote is nothing more than a witch hunt. >> this effort by the house of
representatives is nothing more than a clumsy, naked, politically-motivated witch hunt. megyn: later in the show that man, national urban league president marc morial, will be my guest. and i will ask him whether he thinks this truly is political and whether race is behind the fast and furious probe. in the meantime, we will continue to monitor the white house news briefing. we'll bring you any major developments concerning health care and the pending contempt of congress vote against the attorney general, eric holder. fox news alert first, now, on the historic wildfires causing devastation in colorado. the fire chief in colorado springs calling the waldo canyon fire, quote: a firestorm of epic proportions with members of the u.s. air force academy in his city now being evacuated from their post. towering flames forcing 32,000 from their homes, some with only minutes to pack all of their
treasured belongings and get out. the rush to save their own lives hampered by bumper to bumper traffic and near zero visibility. the waldo canyon fire already destroying many homes and closing in on the second largest city in the state. children and adults alike taking one last look before they go, not knowing if they will be the lucky ones who will have a home to go back to. doug nunkey is a christian ministry group in colorado. he was, he was removed from his home in colorado springs earlier this week, he joins me now by phone. doug, tell us about the evacuation, how quickly it went underway and what you saw. >> yeah, megyn, i work for the navigators, a worldwide organization, and we were notified on saturday. we have a conference center called glen area conference center, it's an amazing place there that butts up right in that same area. our home is right there. we have a camp called eagle lake camp that's up the canyon, and
on saturday all of that was told by the civil authorities for safety that we needed to evacuate all our guests, our staff, our camp counselors, everybody from our facilities. and at the same time, um, i'm on the phone with all our folks, you know, i'm packing our belongings. and, yeah, so and we have dozens of navigator staff that have been evacuated from their homes that live in that area as well as you know and everyone's seen on the news, thousands of others that have been evacuated. megyn: how, you know, how do you choose when you have to get out on a moment's notice what to take and what to leave? >> we, megyn, we chose memories, we chose things that are close to our heart. we've seen god work in our lives in so many different ways, so we were picking things up that remind us of his providence and his care and his goodness.
megyn: it's incredible, the devastation, when you see homes, i mean, people's homes, entire neighborhoods on fire. and some of the pictures we are getting now are really chilling. what is the emotional state of those with whom you evacuated and those that you've surrounded yourself with as they know that some of their most treasured belongings may be on fire? >> yeah. i think for all of us, my wife and i included, sat on a hilltop last night overseeing, you know, it was dark, but you could see blazes all over, and we knew that one of those blazes could possibly be our home. and i know that there were others on that hillside. i actually talked to some of them. and i just saw it, tried to see how they were doing. so i would say that for most of us there's definitely moments of being dazed and confused and wondering what's up, and as pam and i went to bed last night hugging close together, um, with great confidence that the things
that god tells us as believers in him that, you know, he tells us that he who dwells in the shelter of the most high will rest in the shadow of the almighty and that he's our refuge and our fortress and our god in whom we trust. so we believe that even though we were fearful at the same time, and i'm wondering what our future holds as far as our house. megyn: wow. doug, all the best to you. all the best to you and your family. thank you so much for being here. >> megyn, thanks so much. appreciate your prayers and all your viewers' prayers for us in colorado springs. it's a big, big deal, and many people are affected. megyn: i can assure you, you are the beneficiary of them. i'm sure our viewers are praying for you right now. thank you so much, doug. well, the embattled attorney general getting support from a variety of civil rights leaders for what one of them calls the clumsy, naked, politically-motivated witch hunt to find mr. holder in contempt of congress. we will speak with the president
of the national urban league, and i will ask him what he really believes, that race has anything to do with this contempt proceeding as alleged by some of his cohorts on that stage yesterday. and new details on what could be ground breaking evidence in trayvon martin's shooting death. did george zimmerman ignore authorities' instructions to defuse the situation before he pulled the trigger, and on the other hand, did he pass a lie detector test? that's coming up. and we are now less than 24 hours away from knowing the supreme court's historic ruling on the president's health care law. now a growing number of court watchers believe that it is the chief justice, john roberts, who is writing the majority opinion. he is a george w. bush appointee. we will talk about what that likely means right after the break. [ male announcer ] this was how my day began.
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not. a decision some say could be a defining moment not just for all americans who are at any time going to need health care, but for the chief justice of the united states, john roberts. many court watchers predicting he is the one who is the architect of the ruling. that means he is in the majority on this case. what does that mean for the rest of us? joining me now, jay sekulow, chief counsel of the american center for law and justice, and julian epstein, former legal counsel for the house judiciary committee. and you can tell something because we know something about the chief justice. he's a george w. bush appointee, he definitely leans right, jay, and the question is based on what we saw and heard at oral argument what do you believe the chief justice is likely writing at this moment? >> well, he's probably written, probably done, and it may well be that chief justice roberts is the author of the opinion.
but this case has had some very significant twists and turns. you've had republican appointees to the federal courts of appeals that have ruled that the statute, the affordable care act was unconstitutional, you have had them rule that it was constitutional. you've had democratic-appointed judges rule in the 11th circuit that the act was unconstitutional. so this is a lot of tea leaf reading right now -- megyn: i should have started with that. i won't hold you, jay or julian, to this. but we're trying to read the tea leaves based on what we saw and heard from roberts. >> it's going to be, i would suspect it's going to be carefully drawn whichever way it goes, and he tends not to be aggressive in writing in the sense that it could be a narrow-scoped opinion, if he's writing it. megyn: julian, some on the right are feeling joyful that it might be chief justice roberts because he seems skeptical of the constitutionality of the mandate
at the oral argument. the insurance market is unique, it's not like every other market. everybody's going to be in it at some point, so if you say congress has the right to make people buy individual insurance or pay a fee, that's not opening the door to congress regulating us in every area of our lives. and here is what the chief justice said in response to that argument. it is sound bite number three. >> i think that would be a very significant, um, intrusion by the court into congress' power. so i don't see how we can accept your it's good for you in this case to say, oh, it's just insurance. but once we say that there is a market and congress can require people to participate in it as some would say or, as you would say, that people are already participating in it, it seems to me we can't say there are limitations on what congress can do under its commerce power just like in any other area given
significant deference that we accord to congress in this area, all bets are off. megyn: the suggestion being if we say congress can do this, congress can do anything under the commerce clause. >> one, it is reasonable to assume the chief justice will be writing the opinion. secondly, i will say that i think we are going to have a 6-3 vote affirming the law, not declaring -- megyn: that's what i like. be bold! jay! >> and the reason for that is there's a couple of things -- >> i've argued too many to guess. megyn: go ahead, julian, sorry. >> one is i think the chief justice is very sensitive to the perception of a court becoming increasingly politicized. whether it's true or not, there is a public perception of that after the citizens united case, so i think he's keenly sensitive to that. secondly, i think in his confirmation hearing he famously said i'm going to call a ball a ball, a strike a strike, i'm not a pitcher, and i'm not a batter. i don't think he wants to overturn a major social reform
legislation passed by the congress, particularly when it's being done on a very controversial basis to trim back the commerce clause which has historically been interpreted to give congress almost plenary power. you have conservative luminaries out there like lawrence silverman, charles freeh, jeffrey sutton, all of whom have said -- megyn: yeah, but as jay points out, you have judges on the lower courts that have gone both ways too. during the oral argument, he seemed to be favoring those challenging the law, but he also threw out a few nuggets that caused people to say, wait, maybe he's on the government's side. so it's actually most frustrating, jay, that he's probably the one writing the opinion. if you told me scalia was writing it, we'd probably know what this is going to come out as. >> yeah. i think the reality is, and julian and i said this early on. you can't judge the case by oral
argument. i've had them where i felt like i was pounded on for 30 minutes, and we won the case. paul clement did a great job in his oral argument, no doubt about it, and the solicitor general had a rough day. but where julian and i agree, i think, here is that john roberts is going to call it as he sees it. if he decides to declare it unconstitutional, he's not going to be saying, well, i know that's going to look political, i think he's going to call it as he sees it. megyn: i've got to go, i need ten seconds or less, julian. even if they rule against the -- >> i think the court surprised us in the arizona case where they threw out almost all of the arizona law. i think they're going to surprise us tomorrow when they uphold the health care statute, and they're going to do it on a basis that's well established so much. >> 19 hours, we'll know. megyn: coming up, the showdown between arizona and the feds. hey, the new guy is loaded with protein!
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megyn: tropical storm debby is on her way out, but the worst could be yet to come. the storm is baning strength along the eastern seaboard. the flooding debby left behind is nothing short of devastating. this is what it looks like in jacksonville, florida. roads entirely washed out in some places. same scene in neighboring live oak where some towns are literally underwater. steve harrigan is there live in one of the areas hardest hit. >> reporter: there's pockets of low-lying areas which have gotten 20 or 25 inches of rain, and the result, we have four or five feet of flood waters. i wanted to ask you, when you see your friends and neighbors' houses underwater, how does it feel? >> it hurt. i just wish the local and state officials could come and help us out when everything clears up. >> reporter: thank you. >> yes, sir. >> reporter: he's made a
couple of rescues himself, one person and one dog, by going through a window. four people dead from these floods and at least 10,000 people still without electricity. megyn, back to you. megyn: steve harrigan, thank you. wow. look at that picture. well, coming up, stockton, california, last night became the biggest city in history to file for bankruptcy, and it sent a very big message to the rest of the country about public unions unions unions and what could become america's next big financial crisis. michael reagan walks us through this. and arizona governor jan brewer upset from the fallout over the federal government's refusal to cooperate with arizona when it comes to enforcing federal immigration law. rush limbaugh has a new take on the obama administration's treatment of arizona, and we'll talk about the fallout.coming up. >> clear now, obama's given up winning arizona. he doesn't care. written it off. now going soviet on it to make
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megyn: fox news alert. we are less than half an hour away now from a major event on capitol hill. the house committee will start the contempt process against attorney general eric holder over his refusal to hand over documents related to fast and furious, a gun running sting that allowed 2,000 weapons to
wiped up in the hands of some very dangerous criminals down in mexico, and it is believed to have been linked to the death of at least one border patrol act here in america, brian terry. we will track the developments and watch what is happening on capitol hill. it is sort of the step before holding eric holder in contempt, and it happens 30 minutes from right now. we also have developments today on another major story, this one involves the obama administration. this week they decided to cut support for arizona's law enforcement efforts to help enforce federal immigration law. so in the wake of the ruling on monday by the supreme court essentially the feds took their marbles and went home and said no longer are we going to take any help from arizona law enforcement officers in enforcing the existing federal law. radio talk show host rush limbaugh like evening the administration's reaction to
hard line, iron fisted soviet's. >> it's abundantly clear, obama doesn't care about winning arizona, going soviet on it. this is a message to every other state on the border, the same can happen to you if you try this stunt, it's good old fashioned political soviet-style intimidation. barack obama has kicked arizona out of whatever is left of the federal government's border enforcement, and in the process what has obama in real world consequences just done here? obama has sent a special delivery fedex or ups to smugglers, and traffickers, and criminals of all kind, that arizona is wide open. >> christopher hahn is a former
aide to new york democrat senator chuck zoomer and a fox news contributor. chris plant is video host of the chris plant show. chris hahn let me start with you on this. did the obama administration need to do this? they won three out of four arguments in arizona, did they then need to pull the ability of the local law enforcement in arizona to enforce the federal law, the federal law that is in place on the books? >> you know, rush has got this all wrong. they are still going to send help when there are criminals involved in immigration stops. megyn: not if they are not convicted fell ons. not if they are not convicted fell ons or recent -- wait, let's just make that clear, there are three categories of arrestees that the feds will send ice down to go arrest, if you get pulled over in your car and arizona law enforcement calls ice and says, hey i got somebody he may be an illegal immigrant. felons, people who have already
been deported or people who recently crossed the border illegally. everyone else they are ignoring. >> right, they are not coming to the aid of a guy who blew a stop sign who might be here illegal leave. but i don't think that guy is a danger to america. we should be using our resources in places where they are a danger to america. i know rush wanted to get into the papers again singapore s-pbd tkragain since sandra flukes has calmed down a little bit. megyn: how is this about rush and not about president obama and whether there was the right move. that is the question we're asking today, chris, plant. >> when called upon to defend the indefensible don't, change the subject and attack, that's what we just witnessed right there. rush limbaugh, i'm on before rush limbaugh, i compared it to
joseph stalin punishing ukraine. you look what happened in georgia, the prague spring, president obama has done everything but roll tanks on them. they are denying access to the computer database under the 287g program which is completely gratuitous and it's reminiscent of the epa official who a while back said that, you know, like the roman legions you go into turkish villages and crucify the first five guys you see. this is to make an example of arizona. it's chicago-style old school thug policies. you punish tphaur enemies. >> lepunish your enemies. >> they can't be acting as their own immigration enforcement officials. the obama administration does not trust the state of arizona to do this responsible given the rhetoric of their elected
political officials. megyn: expand on that, chris hahn. what is the rhetoric? there's been no receipt rib. two days ago irhetoric. two days ago it was okay to cooperate with arizona. what is it suddenly that is so bad about the arizona sheriffs. >> they did challenge it at a violation of civil rights. >> no, they did not. >> that part of the law was not overturned because it had not going into effect yet. megyn: no, sir. no, sir. >> i have a different reading of it. megyn: there is a separate group of plaintiffs that is challenging the law as a violation of civil rights. the obama administration declined to challenge the law on that basis. >> because it has not gone into effect yet. megyn: now you're shifting your argument to say why you didn't. a minute ago it was that they did. >> if arizona -- let me just -- out-and-out invaded by mexico. >> we've seen sheriff joe. megyn: it's sheriff joe.
chris plant i have to give you the last word. >> look, this is an administration from the beginning has decided what laws they will enforce and not enforce. this is old school thug-style politics. it's we'll punish you as the president said, the univision, you punish your enemies you reward your friends. we sue states that we disagree w. they enforce what they want to enforce and they don't enforce what they don't want to enforce. >> the borders have never been more secure than they are under this president. how do you explain that? how do you fit that with all this rhetoric going on out there. megyn: i gave chris plant the last word, i'm sorry i had to correct you chris hahn on the law. see you soon we have got stunning new information on your doctors and how the healthcare case will affect their practices no matter what the court says
delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet the house is considering a bill to close thousands of offices, slash service and layoff over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses but not for reasons you might think. the problem ? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains $5 billion a year from post office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts. house bill 2309 is not the answer.
>> this effort by the house of representatives is nothing more than a clumsy, naked, politically motivated witch hunt. megyn: that was the president of the national urban league, one of a number of civil rights leaders yesterday defending attorney general eric holder as the clock ticks down now to a critical contempt of congress vote against him. the group suggesting this fast and furious investigation has little to do with how the doj actually handled the gun running operation that may have lead to the death of border patrol agent brian terry, instead saying this challenge to mr. holder is really about race, and voting rights. one of the leaders supporting the attorney general, you saw him moments ago, mark moriel an is the president of the national you are urban league. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me.
megyn: we watched that press conference with interest. let me ask you why now coming out in mr. holder's defense. a couple of weeks ago we covered lanny davis who was a top democrat who was outraged that more democrats had come forward earlier and more advocates of mr. holder earlier in defend him. >> i think there has been a sense that cooler heads would prevail and that the justice department and congress would be able to workout their differences over these documents to avert a contempt vote by the house tomorrow, which i expect will take place, and i certainly expect it to pass. but let me gave you my take. my take is that there are two inspector general investigations that have been ongoing, and i think what congress should do is stand aside and allow those inspector general investigations to run their course, because, obviously we have great sympathy for the death of brian terry, and certainly for his family members, no doubt, however, the idea that congress should
involve itself so deeply in this. without allowing these investigations to run their course, because they may find things that could be referred to the criminal division of the justice department, they may find the correct answers to this. i think it's too many parallel investigations taking place at one time. so i think congress should suspend. megyn: why do you say it's naked political move? >> i think in the history of our great republic no attorney general has ever been held in contempt of court. and there were certainly great questions about the conduct of attorney generals in the past, great concerns that congress had about their actions in the past, but it's never, ever come to this. these actions of fast and furious took place within the atf, in an agency which is certainly part of the department of justice. megyn: you know we still have questions about exactly what role the doj played, and they played some role. >> let me say this. and i think the questions are certainly not illegitimate, but
i think this is so charged in this political year. you've got darrell issa out there, he's getting a lot of attention, a lot of political attention, a lot of press attention, indeed for what he's doing, and you've got an attorney general whose reputation for integrity, for honesty and professionalism has never once been questioned. megyn: what do you think about the suggestion by some that this is about suppressing mr. holder's efforts to challenge these voter id laws? because that effort began about a year after the fast and furious congressional probe began. >> senator john cornyn let it slip out the bag. his statements were something to the effect that attorney general holder was preventing states from pursuing voting fraud, when in fact what attorney general holder has done is uphold his obligation to enforce the constitution and the voting rights act. megyn: my point is that's a separate fight. you have holder -- mr. holder
challenging states that are putting in place voter id laws and the parties are split on that. republicans like those laws, democrats do. my point is mr. held der didn' holder didn't get actively involved in challenging the laws until about a year after the fast and furious began. >> it's not the fast and furious investigation, megyn, it's the idea that you would now insist on a contempt vote against the attorney general of the united states. the idea that congress has the right and duty to investigate. i do not question that, i don't think any of us question that. what i do question, however, is congress insistence while there are parallel investigations taking place by the inspector generals to not allow them to run their course and then congress can certainly do its job. remember, congress' investigation can find facts. congress' investigation is not going to lead perhaps to
charges. if any parties were responsible in any way for the unfortunate death of brian terry, so if it's about brian terry, i think cooler heads -- smart heads -- megyn: why do you hold the republicans responsible for that? when this thing first began, elijah cummings who was the top democrat on this committee made a promise to the terry family, and the terry family does not feel that promise has yet been met. let me give you a sample. >> we will not rest until every single person responsible for all of this. no matter where they are, are brought to justice. >> you stood there right to my fist and told me that you would do everything and bring anybody to justice no matter how high up it was and who it was. what happened? >> don't both parties owe it to the terry family. that is a congressman, mr. cummings saying they'll get to the bottom of it. >> they obviously do. my take is is that justice for
brian terry will not necessarily come through holding attorney general holder in contempt. that justice for the terry family will come by the allowing the inspector generals and both justice and homeland security to do their job, complete their investigations and file a report. megyn: do you think that race is in any way behind the motivation of the republicans who are still pursuing this? >> i think it's like politics is like thunder, and race may be like lightning. and i tell you why. it's clear that there is a great deal of push back from people on the right to attorney general holder's efforts to stand up for immigrants, to stand up for the voting rights act of citizens in states all across the nation, and perhaps it's anxiety about his efforts to stand up for those folks, many of whom are african-american, many of whom are latino, not exclusively and not completely.
and so i think that we have to recognize in this country that race is many times an element within public policy debates. megyn: you don't think it has anything to do with mr. holder's race. >> i think it's more of the race of the people he stood up for. that's why i think yesterday reverend sharpton made a point that if it was an attorney general doing as mr. holder has done, if he were white, if he were black, if he were pok pokadot he would still have the same sense. attorney general holder has stood up to enforce the voting rights act and civil rights laws in way that's been admirable. megyn: i want to ask you about an opinion piece that mr. sharpton wrote. here is what he wrote in part. i believe we have it on the board so the viewers can read along with me. standby as i see it myself. hold on one second because it picks up mid sentence here. there it goes. ag holder was reminded that despite his esteemed position he
can and would be proceed tpaoeufpltd he was in essence stopped and risk -d without probable cause. what issa just shows us is that no matter what our stature in this world someone can easily try to put us in our place. what can be more outrageous? do you agree with the reverend on this. >> i find so interesting that this attorney general, whose reputation has been sterling in this highly charged election year is about to become the first attorney general in the history of the republic to be held in contempt by the house of representatives. megyn: but he is suggesting, he is suggesting there that it does have to do with mr. holder's race, that he's been profiled. do you agree with that? that's an incendiary charge. >> i think in this discussion race is a factor somewhere, even if it's subtle. i think it's a factor. my take, however, as i said earlier, is that it's the race of the people he stood up to protect. that's a factor. we are in an election year. megyn: i got it, i got it.
two parties remain at odds over that. >> cooler heads should prevail. i hope that they will work it out. i don't think that to they will and the saga continues. megyn: so far no cool heads in washington. >> none this year. megyn: thanks for being here. >> my pleasure. megyn: we appreciate him coming on. well it could be a game changer in the trayvon martin investigation. we are learning what the lead detective said eave first spoke to george zimmerman on the night in question. and it is going to make for a very interesting "kelly's court." this could be a game changer. one california city just become the biggest in u.s. history to file for bankruptcy. when it did it sent a very big message to the rest of the country about public unions and what could become america's next big financial crisis. michael reagan live, just ahead.
megyn: fox news alert we are following new developments right now in the fight to battle a massive wildfire in colorado, and the pictures are just so disturbing. the waldo canyon fire is forcing tens of thousands of people, to run, run for their lives from their homes, sometimes with as little as five minutes notice, to gather whatever belongings they can and get out to safety. alicia acuna live from colorado springs now. >> reporter: hi, megyn, the colorado springs fire chief says this is a blaze of epic proportions. it's moving through the neighborhoods so quickly and creating such dangerous conditions they can't even count what's been destroyed. >> there are some homes impacted there is no question about it. i am absolutely not prepared to release the number. we don't know the number. this is an active fire, it's not remotely close to being contained. >> reporter: fire crews say the fire just exploded last night when a storm moved into the area
with 65-mile per hour wind gusts that took things to a whole other level. at first residents say they were given pre evacuation orders, and then in a matter of an hour were told to get out. megyn, i want to get you a look at where we're standing, we are right on the edge of interstate 25, those are neighborhoods right in the middle of all that smoke. that's where the firefight is going on right now. these are the suburbs of colorado springs. their mailing addresses colorado springs: you move over here, this is the base of the air support we've been seeing all day. the wind shifts determine whether they can get into the air. a mile back you can kind of see that stadium, that is the air force academy. they've evacuated 2100 people off of the base and right now anyone who is nonessential alice not allowed on the base. back to you. megyn: alicia acuna thank you. we've got breaking news on the looming contempt vote for the attorney general of the united states. the white house press secretary just had a sharp exchange about
what he calls a good-faith effort to settle this fight short of a contempt vote. ed henry and one of the men who was pushing this contempt vote to go forward right after this break. plus, what happens with your healthcare after the supreme court hands down its decision on the healthcare law in just hours? the message coming from doctors right now that will stun you. our special medical panel debates. >> i said this once or twice, but it bears repeating. if you like your current insurance, you will be keep your current insurance. no government take over, nobody is changing what you've got if you're happy with it. a party?
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and replace your possessions are covered. and we don't just cut a check for the depreciated value -- we can actually replace your stuff with an exact or near match. plus, if your home is unfit to live in after an incident, we pay for you to stay somewhere else while it's being repaired. home protectorlus, from liberty mutl insurance. because you never know what lies around the corner. to get a free quote, call... visit a local office, or go to libertymutual.com today. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? megyn: fox news alert as republicans right now take the first formal steps toward holding the attorney general in contempt of congress. we are suddenly hearing reports that nearly two dozen democrats
may break ranks and join the g.o.p. in its challenge to mr. holder. brand-new hour here of "america live." welcome, everyone, i'm megyn kelly, and the news is inc is indeed breaking at this hour. the house committee will start the process of outlining tomorrow's vote to hold the attorney general in criminal contempt of congress. congress suggesting the attorney general has failed to answer questions in a gun running sting that appears to have led to the death of a u.s. border patrol agent, a gun running sting run by the phoenix division of the atf but with the cooperation of the department of justice. moments ago white house press secretary jay carney fielded questions about the fast and furious investigation and efforts to reach a last-minute deal between the justice department and the house oversight committee. >> i don't have any meetings, new meetings to preview for you, or read out to you, but i
think -- to say we haven't been doing everything we can is ridiculous given that the attorney general asked for a meeting with the chairman and got one in an effort to resolve this. senior white house officials as well as justice department officials met with committee staffers yesterday in an effort to resolve this. megyn: chief white house correspondented henry is just out of the briefing with an update. >> reporter: the bottom line is that jay carney would not commit to whether or not there are white house officials meeting today with house republicans to try to work all this out at the 11th hour, ahead of what we're expecting to be a full vote in the house tomorrow on contempt charges against the attorney general eric holder. the bottom line is we do know that yesterday there was an attempt by white house officials to work with house republicans, and in fact they showed about maybe 30 pages of documents to give the house republicans an idea of what documents are being withheld to try to show good faith and say, look, there is nothing incriminating, nothing really damaging in here, but we want to protect the principle of
executive privilege or conversations between executive branch officials that they don't want out there in the public domain, but republicans rejected that offer and said they do want to see more of the documents and they want them out. and so the bottom line is, when i pressed jay carney on this matter he said that they've been trying everything to try to avoid this showdown, but they believe inside the white house that the republicans have been determined to make this a political issue. take a listen. >> there remains hope that republicans will change their mind, will reverse their decision, their strategic decision to try to score political points. i mean you remain hopeful that common-sense prevails here, although you do have to look at the beginning of the year when republicans announce they'd one of their chief legislative and strategic priorities was to investigate the administration and damage the president politically. >> reporter: as you know republican leaders have rejected that charge and they believe
this is legitimate oversight on capitol hill to get to the bottom of exactly what did unfold with the botched gun running operation of fast and furious but also to bring some sort of justice and accountability to sergeant terry and his family, since it is believed that he was killed in connection with that botched operation. bottom line is tomorrow is going to be a monumental day for the administration, not just heading towards this vote on contempt charges against the attorney general, a remarkable event, the first attorney general ever to face this. but secondly, of course, tomorrow at 10:00am we are expecting the supreme court to rule on the president's healthcare law. a huge day for this administration tomorrow, megyn. megyn: again, we were just alerted that the republicans have begun work on that resolution to find the attorney general in contempt. republican congressman jason shave its of utah is a key member of the outside oversight committee. he is heading to that meeting in a moment but agreed to speak with us first. congressman, welcome back to the program. is this vote tomorrow going to
happen? >> i think it is. the speaker addressed all the house republicans and said unfortunately that meeting yesterday produced nothing and we are left with no choice but to move forward. megyn: the white house was mum whether there are last minute negotiatings between the white house and house republicans. what can you tell us? >> i don't think there are any. this is pretty simply. they need to provide the documents to congress for a due lee issued subpoena. the american people deserve to know the truth. there are 140,000 documents pertaining to fast and furious. the white house has offered up a couple of hundred. and wred when they offered a representative sample of what they believe is a fair compilation it amounted to less than 30 pieces of paper. within that it shows there were emails going directly to eric holder when remember he said he didn't have anything to do witness. jason weinstein one of the deputy attorney generals had gone to phoenix actually months after the death of brian terry and gave a glowing report saying that the atf agents were doing
wonderful things down there. one of the deep concerns we have, megyn is that there is a concerted effort, an on trucks of congress, which is a crime that may have been happening there within the department of justice, and thus the reluctance to share those documents with us. megyn: a lot in that answer. with respect to showing communications with the attorney general, that is not surprising if they came after february 2011. by that point the attorney general was moved in, so they don't have any document that you saw showing the attorney general linked to the birth of fast and furious, or the intricate details of it prior to brian terry's death yet, do you? >> we think we've seen a number of documents that point in that direction. until we get all the documents we definitively do not know. that's what this is about. we are not trying to prosecute the whole operation of fast and furious. what we are worried about is the february 4th letter, which is a lie, they had to rescind it tennessee months later. megyn: in which claimed that guns were never allowed to walk and that turned out to be not the case. that was a representation by the doj to you, to your colleague
chuck grassley in the senate and they had to withdraw the letter months later after the republicans stayed on them, they came out and said it wasn't true. they say, congressman, that they were mistaken, this is what they write. they say that they had given you, the statement today, that they had given you documents, as recently as yesterday that show how the department responded to congress' inquiry and disspwelg any notion of an intention to conceal ear intention to provide misleading information to congress. they believe it was a good faith mistake, they rectified it. that should be the end of the matter. >> there is a serious concern a prevailing theory that there was an obstruction of congress. we get that from the whistle-blowers, not only from the gun dealers that were down there participating at the request of the atf, i mean that is the serious allegation that is moving forward here. let's also keep in mind, megyn, the national border patrol council, this is he the afl-cio-oriented union, this is
17,000 border patrol agents, people on the front line, they came out and said if eric holder were to be a border patrol agent he'd be fired, unfit for service. even the front line guys, the union guys working down there see this as just a total obstruction of what would ultimately lead us hopefully to the truth. megyn: we are hearing that there may be as many as 21 democrats who are prepared to cross the aisle and vote in favor of holding the attorney general in contempt. one of those jim matteson of utah came out and said, sadly it seems i will will take holding the attorney general in contempt to communicate that evasiveness is unacceptable. it is a vote i will support. what are your numbers looking like right now, the number overall that will support this and the number that will cross party lines? >> i don't quite know. i know there are 31 brave democrats in june of last year who sent a letter to the department of justice and the white house saying you're not being compliant here and really, megyn nothing has changed over the years. so if you you signed that letter
more than a year ago and you look at where we are today nothing has changed. that is the the shame. we could put this this bed. it should have been done a yearing a. we could put this to bed. just provide the documents. if there is nothing there to hide provide the documents it's that simple. megyn: congressman they have maintained deliberative privilege thaepb say, just so our viewers know there is executive privilege that protects the president and his communications then there is another faction of it that protects agency communications, including intraagency doj communications, president bush asserted that, president obama has asserted that and courts have recognized that privilege. it doesn't have to involve the president to be privilege potentially. to preserve the ability for people to speak openly, those who advise the president like will holder and his deputies. they say that's why you are not getting these documents, because of that privilege and the need to protect documents like that. why do you say that privilege has no application here? >> well, what they are going to have to do, remember there are
going to be two votes, one is the contempt the other allows us in a civil court to move forward if the u.s. attorney decides not to prosecute. we'll actually have two votes tomorrow allowing us to move on them. if we have to go through the civil route they'll have to document, document by document, why they think executive privilege is necessary. and there are 140,000 documents. so it's going to be quite lengthy to go through that process. but, remember, before last week the white house said they were never involved in all of this. >> they don't have to be. they don't have to be. >> there are other documents that we have had as whistle-blowers and others that we know are out there, that they still isn't provided to us and we don't believe are protected by executive privilege. megyn: do you think by this time tomorrow we will have an affirmative vote in the house to hold the attorney general of the united states in criminal contempt? >> it will be more about probably 5:00 or so eastern is my guess -- best guess but we're marching down that path we are
left with no other alternatives, unfortunately. megyn: thank you. we thank you for coming on. you heard it here. we will watch tomorrow which will be a very big news day, folks. the u.s. supreme court issues a ruling tomorrow morning at 10:00am that will affect all americans. i mean this is it. you've heard all these lower courts, lawmakers trying to tell you it's constitutional or not. the supreme court gets the final say. we will know tomorrow whether that healthcare law rises or falls based on constitutionality or lack there of. then you heard the congressman, by the close of business tomorrow we should know whether for the first time ever a sitting attorney general of the united states is held in criminal contempt of congress, a vote to do so, whether it has succeeded. lots of news going on. and coming up today, speaking of that healthcare ruling, we have stunning new information from a doctor's survey that was conducted, a survey of doctors when it comes to healthcare. we will take an in-depth look at what medical professionals are
saying about this law, and what they believe will happen with their own medical practices and their relationships with their patients after tomorrow's ruling. that's coming up. also, stockton, california, sending a strong warning to america and its public unions, the city drowning in soaring retirement costs plans to file for bankrupt see. and i see. michael reagan walks us through what could be america's financial crisis. new information in the travon martin shooting and groundbreaking evidence from the lead detective who interviewed mr. zimmerman on the night in question. >> i fell backwards to the side on my back, he ended up on top of me, and he just kept punching my face. [ male announcer ] research suggests the health of our cells plays a key role throughout our entire lives. ♪
megyn: big news from california today where the city of stockton has voted to file for bankruptcy this week, the largest city in u.s. history ever to do so. the city is $800 million short in its pension fund and says its unions that refused to make any meaningful concessions. to understand the pension challenge consider that the average firefighter retires at around $157,000 a year there, and that is just the firefighters. we are hearing almost a quarter of all cities in california are also on the brink. michael make began is a political consultant and chairman of the reagan group and a very famous california resident. michael, welcome back. it is not to be fair to the unions, just the union pensions, this city was struggling under falling home prices, rising bankruptcies, and some hefty price tags for some buildings and marinas there. nonetheless the union pensions were a huge part of the red ink and now the analyst -rs saying
it's are saying it's not just stockton we need to worry about. >> it's all over the state. remember the state is about $500 billion in the red, you know, on pensions alone in the state of california. and so stockton is stepping up, they'll vote tonight to file bankruptcy. you've got san diego, san jose. remember in the last what we had here in california, both san jose and san diego voted by 70% to in fact start cutting back what in fact union members were getting in their pensions and make them in fact start to pay into their own pensions instead of we, the taxpayers, paying into it fully. something needs to happen. this was created by jerry brown when he was governor the first time, and now the chickens have come home to roast on jerry's watch. megyn: you get the situation where, you know, if you look at the union negotiations with the city, and they get, you know, some good pension deals. they do. they get a negotiated pension that is pretty darn good, it sounds great on paper but if the
city goes bankrupt it's not worth the paper it's printed on. how does this -- >> what is going on is the fact that remember, you're talking about the fireman retiring at $157,000. they get to retire at 50 years of and i. that's when they retire. they go on yet to get another pension for the state going to work for someone else. this is how the system is really set up in the state of california. that's why we are going bankrupt. and people forget, you know, while they always talk about washington d.c. or they talk about what is going on in new york, on wall street and how everybody is spending too much and buying too many cars and buying too many houses they forget to tell you that when the cities were getting all this tax money in from us making that kind of money, when all the money was coming in from the houses, and the fact that we were being taxed for living in our houses, what were they doing? they weren't putting the money away for a rainy day, they were going out and spending, spending, spending.
and now we are all paying the price in california. i mean to drive in this state seriously you need a four-wheel drive for a back haller because the roads are absolutely terrible in this state. it is so bad, so bad the illegals have left. megyn: you've talked on the program before about how both the republican and democratic governors out in the state of california have tried to tax their way out of this problem, and what they've managed to do in part is drive many of the wealthy californians out of the state, thus depleting the tax revenue, and adding to the problem rather than solving it. >> what happened a few years ago, it started with schwarzenegger, when the unions completely beat him back with five ballot measures, back a few years ago. i call it the woosification. what that happened he turned green, he went completely with the green agenda, which began
with the process of chasing businesses out of the state. jerry brown a couple of weeks ago signed an executive order requiring every new home built in this state as of 2014 have a roof capable of holding and carrying a -- those -- whatever those things are, solar panels on their roofs. megyn: clearly you haven't got even them yet. >> yeah, i mean -- and about a month ago he signed another executive order requiring every new state building as of 2025 to in fact take care of their own energy needs. so when you go buy a building in 2025 it's going to have a solar panel, it's going to have wind, but it has to have a zero footprint, guess what that did, chased even more businesses out of the state of california. there are no businesses coming into the state, they are leaving. megyn: it's going to have a little solar window, a little windmill and a lot of dark windows as you drive by, listen
what is happening in stockton is no laughing matter. they are in a lot of trouble and it's quite stunning to see. >> i wouldn't be surprised to see l.a. at some point also file. megyn: wow, this is the country's largest city so far to file for bankruptcy or to resolve to file for bankruptcy. it is said to be happening as early as this morning. michael, thank you, sir. >> thank you. megyn: a stunning new survey that shows no matter how the supreme court rules on the president's healthcare overhaul tomorrow a majority of american doctors are unhappy with this new law and what it means for their patients, you will not believe the numbers that believe that this will significantly and negatively impact the relationship between you and your doctor. we are joined by three practicing physicians who weigh in coming up. >> if you like your doctor you will be able to keep your doctor, period. if you like your healthcare plan, you will be able to keep your healthcare plan, period.
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megyn: we are getting reports today of new deadly violence in syria and some exclusive new video from our fox news team in damascus. they arat the scene of this attack own a progovernment tv station. the bashar al-assad regime calling it a quote, massacre carried out by terrorists. greg palkot is streaming live for us from damascus syria live now. >> reporter: over the past couple of days we have been telling you about how the attacks, the clashes are getting closer to the center of power here in damascus. today a cameraman and i had a chance to get a first-hand look and proof of that.
take a look. this is what is left of a progovernment tv station just outside of damascus, the burning and smoldering remains of a bomb explosion, walls of mortar attack and as everything in this contact now a lot of spin on both sides. one opposition group is saying that it was a defected elite soldier's responsible, whoever it is it was a well coordinated attack, after hitting the place with mortars earlier in the morning dozens of armed gunman stormed the complex, sprayed the place with bullets. killed three journalists, four security guards, set off six large bombs, detonated those, damaged this with fire, et cetera. officials not pleased as you can imagine, they described the attack as a massacre, a massacre against the freedom of press. the u.n. office also condemned it. here is what one reporter a colleague of those killed had to tell us today.
>> they were killed, this is what happened. they won't freedom, they want democracy. this is the kind of democracy. they destroyed the other opinions. >> reporter: what we were also struck by as we rode around in the suburbs of damascus is the amount of soldiers, security, checkpoints, clearly a response to what has been happening here and what has been building in the few days that we have been here. two final notes, the u.n. investigation into the houla massacre back in may where over a hundred men, women and children were killed, said to be pointing the finger in the direction of the syrian government. a u.n. led contact group, including secretary clinton is set for saturday to try to find a way to end this. not easy, back to you, megyn. megyn: thank you. potentially groundbreaking new evidence againee pheurpblgin again emerging in the george
zimmerman case raising serious questions about what happened in the travon heart tin death. what he said, what initial detectives he talked to believed and whether he passed a voice stress test. we'll talk about it in "kelly's court." what comes next after tomorrow's big ruling on healthcare. after tomorrow we shall know one way or the other. stunning new polls surveying american doctors giving us some clues. three of our best medical experts help break down next what it could all mean for you and your doctor. a party?
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megyn: fox news alert, republicans began work about a half hour ago on the resolution to hold attorney general eric holder in contempt of congress for failing, they believe, to comply with subpoenas on the fast and furious operation. that, of course, was an atf gun-running sting run out of phoenix that may have led to the death of a u.s. border patrol agent. the top democrat on this house committee, congressman elijiah cummings, has written what we are told is a long letter to house speaker john bane everybody -- i've actually seen part of it -- urging him to hold off on tomorrow's contempt vote suggesting there were some errors in the mechanics leading up to the vote among other bases. as we get the speaker's response, we will bring it to you.
we are also standing by right now, we are less than 24 hours away from one of the most important supreme court decisions in decades. this is the most important decision we've seen out of this court in decades. tomorrow morning the high court will, at last, announce the fate of the president's health care law. it has been much-debated, it has been a very emotional subject for many, many millions of americans and finally the nine justices inside that court will tell us whether it is or is not constitutional. but we today got the results of a stunning new survey that shows how american doctors feel about this law. the research is from jackson health care, the country's fourth largest health care staffing company, and their survey showed that just over 67% of the doctors who responded believe this health care law will have a negative impact on private practice. nearly two-thirds say the law will give them less control over
their practice decisions. joining us now to discuss all of this, dr. marc siegel who is a member of our fox news medical a-team, also dr. richard fur sine who's author and director of the center for comprehensive medicine and chairman of the department of medicine at newark beth israel medical center. doctors, thank you so much for being here. does this surprise you, the negativity among the doctors? i'm not going to start with you, dr. siegel, baud -- because i know you're going to say, no. the negativity among the theres, the expectation that it will decrease the quality of care and interfere between the doctor/patient relationship? >> doctors for a long time have been concerned about this particular program and for an important reason. two-thirds of the doctors surveyed last year said this was going to be a problem, 90% said it was going to cause increased costs in health care. doctors are on the front line, they know what's going on, they see how patients are treated and
how they can treat patients. right now we know 15,000 doctors, we're sure about 15,000 primary care doctors, 160,000 more doctors will be needed just to help handle the excess numbers of patients that will be included. megyn: so there's a doctor shortage, but why does that play into, why does that mean that in conjunction with the health care law the doctors are saying the relationship between patients and doctors gets affected? >> well, right now doctors are in a big rush to see patients. i mean, if you have the average pass, a physician doesn't spend as much time with a patient as he or she used to. megyn: i think we've all experienced that. >> absolutely. and patients don't like that. they want to take time with their physicians. i was up in massachusetts talking to specialists, and i'm a specialist in rheumatology. and the doctor said, well, they were flooded with primary care patients because they really wanted to see a physician, and there weren't enough primary care doctors out there to visit. megyn: and now you see your
primary care doctor, and he gives you four referrals instead of just doctoring you himself. not dr. siegel. >> he or she doesn't have enough time to spend 15, 20, 30 minutes with the patient which is what the patients want. megyn: but, dr. siegel, i still don't understand how does the health care law impact that? >> because the health care law adds many, many more regulations, guidelines, and observations about what's good care and what isn't. coming from committees that are making relationings even as we -- recommendations as we sit here. this week it was about obesity. the task force says we should be doing counseling for obesity. every time one of those -yard lines comes in, if it gets adopted by insurance or by the independent medicare advisory board which is part of obamacare, if that happens then doctors get told how to practice. we don't like getting told how to practice, because we feel -- the tree of us probably agree -- practicing medicine is a one-on-one situation. there are different permutations. guidelines help you, but if insurance says i anticipate
covering that -- ain't covering that, can't do a mammogram over the age of 40, we're told what we can't do, we can't practice. megyn: but i thought that the obamacare law was supposed to add services for us, preventive care in particular, making insurance companies cover costs that they previously were refusing to. isn't that good for patients? >> well, it's a good idea in principle. what's happening now is we really don't have a good understanding of what makes, what it takes to have good preventive care. we know that obesity right now is a huge problem. 66% of the population is either overweight or obese. people still smoke, 42 million americans still smoke. until we get to the core issues, we could pay for health care. until we get to the core issues about why americans are unhealthy and what we can do to prevent those problems, we're not going to solve it by telling doctors what to do. megyn: is this a fight, doc, between the doctors and the obama administration, or is it between the insurance industry?
i mean, does this ruling tomorrow affect more what insurance companies are going to have to cover, what they're going to have to pay for, or does it affect more what you can do with your patients? >> well, the insurance companies directly impact on our practice of medicine. right now insurance companies are regrouping, they're thinking -- they're playing all the alternatives. the key to successful medical care is good outcomes and preventive medicine, as both of my colleagues have said, is very, very important. you know, mammograms, colonoscopies, they can't be done willy-nilly. even bone density measurements. you have to get permission, approval. even if i write a prescription for a particular drug, i need approval, i have to spend time on the phone calling insurance companies, talking to their medical director -- megyn: but isn't this going to improve that because now you don't have to call the insurance company, they just say it's covered. president obama has told us we have to cover it, and it's covered. >> that's for certain things, but when you do that, a, it costs more money and, b, other
things aren't covered. richard said something before which is that patients are told they have a certain thing, preventative medicine, it leaves out a whole other thing; exercising, losing weight. i'd like to see tax incentives for losing weight and exercise instead of when you get to the doctor's office -- megyn: so you're saying that the law is sending people to your office that should not be there? >> that's a. it's forcing people to pay insurance if the the independent mandate remains. it's forcing people to buy insurance that may not even be sick. megyn: like the 22-year-old. >> i call it a ponzi scheme. it helps the insurance company pay out on an obese diabetic. why should an 18-year-old who's throwing a javelin pay for -- megyn: well, i mean, i object to that if i'm the 18-year-old, but if i'm that 66-year-old, i'm all in favor of this. >> that's exactly right. megyn: but if you're the doctor, why do you care?
>> we want to deliver the best care possible and make sure that the patients who need medical services are treated. the way this program is set up right now there's a very small number of people who are actually going to have increased or improved medical care. right now 60 million americans are uninsured. this program really only takes into account 30 million of those 60, 10 million of that 30 will be illegal americans. but 20 million will be, have increased services. the problem here is that many, many people who would normally have health care, who could get to doctors and have health care are not going to get -- megyn: because of the doctor shortage. >> because of the doctor shortage. megyn: and now we have all these other people need insurance coverage to go to the doctors, and that's good for them, but for the people who already have coverage, they may have a tougher time to see the doctor n visits get shorter? >> exactly. it's unsustainable as it is. we have emergency rooms that are teeming with patients. there's no primary care physician out there to take care
of people that are on medicaid, government-sponsored programs, those with charity care, those who cannot afford it wind up in our emergency rooms. hundreds of thousands of people jamming emergency rooms. >> megyn, obamacare is not for a rainy day, it's for a sunny day. it's too easy to overuse. they're making insurance which should be for a rainy day too easy to overuse. you can use it if you're not sick, if the doctor is available because the doctor was already overwhelmed before obamacare came in. megyn: i gotta go, but what are you hoping happens tomorrow? >> well, i would hope the whole law will be struck down. i know what's going to happen is that the individual mandate's going to be struck because the supremes are going to to be reluctant to take on a law that they think overall maybe parts of this law was constitutional. they'll go for the part -- >> doctor? >> i agree. and i also hope that people take the takeaway message here that there's important things they
can do to start prevention because that's going to be more and more important as this system gets overwhelmed. we're going to need people to go out and learn how to stay healthy if they know that they're not going to have that access to care. >> medical providers, nurse practitioners are going to be booming. i think the pre-existing condition clause is a very good one and should remain. megyn: that's going to go. if the mandate goes -- >> well, if. megyn: parts of it needs to go as well. >> well and, you know, that's a big problem. the pre-existing condition. and keeping kids healthy under the parents' policy until they're 26 is not a bad idea -- megyn: that could survive even if the mandate is thrown out. a lot of insurers are saying they -- i gotta go. it's over between us. >> if it's -- megyn: he's always doing this. it's not that he's leaving the room, he won't let you leaf.
all right, guys, thank you all. [laughter] doctors, cubed. [laughter] well, we've got ground-breaking new evidence in the george zimmerman case who stands accused of killing an unarmed teenager, and now some new documents suggest that the investigating detective believed mr. zimmerman had several chances to avoid the deadly confrontation but did not take them, but a voice stress test may help his case, mr. zimmerman's, significantly. that's next in kelly's court.
megyn: kelly's court is back in session. on the docket today, new questions about whether the confrontation that led to the death of an unarmed florida teenager could have and should have been avoided. ground-breaking new evidence just released in the george zimmerman investigation. he's the neighborhood watch volunteer accused of shooting and killing 17-year-old trayvon martin back in february. this is video of zimmerman
reenacting the shooting the day after. zimmerman has been saying all along that he shot trayvon martin in self-defense, that he had no other choice, but now documents and audio files appear to suggest that zimmerman may have ignored several chances to defuse the situation, at least that is how the detective on the case, chris sorino, saw it. he said zimmerman could simply have stayed in the his car and waited for officers to arrive, and in a report he has issued he suggests that zimmerman missed another opportunity to keep things from spiraling out of control. listen. >> had you told this child that you were neighborhood watch, you were just wondering what the hell he was doing when he came up to your car, we probably wouldn't be here right now. megyn: investigators also say when comparing zimmerman to trayvon martin physically, zimmerman was not at an exceptional disadvantage. arthur aidala is a defense
attorney and mark eiglarsh is as well. the lead investigator on the case has cast serious doubt on mr. zimmerman's story. this guy, apparently, wanted charges brought. the police chief who's now been fired did not, or at least the local da decided not to, and then the special prosecutor brought it in. arthur, having looked at what this chief investigator, the lead homicide detective is saying -- which isn't good for zimmerman disturb is it relevant though? >> i think it's extremely relevant, especially since this case is now really in the court of public opinion since his lawyer made the bold move to release that self-serving statement by his client walking through the crime scene and where everything happened. so, look, if we're going to decide this case out here on television and in the newspapers as opposed to a courtroom, then it's definitely relevant. and, you know, i give a lead homicide detective by definition, that's an individual who has an enormous amount of
experience. and if he, if that's what his conclusions were -- and i know they were from the beginning -- and the prosecutor just thumbed their nose at them, it really makes me question why that was done because this detective really sounds like he knows what he's doing. megyn: the detective says in his opinion zimmerman's fear of trayvon martin was minimal, injuries suffered were only mildly consistent with a life-threatening encounter, and his actions were consistent as those of someone who was in fair of another. this guy doesn't believe zimmerman. >> his opinion, megyn n a court of law is as useless as the g in lasagna. [laughter] the judge wouldn't even allow this guy to testify because he would be infringing on the jurors' sole purpose which is to determine the facts in the case and mr. zimmerman was legally
justified in shooting. it was reversible error to allow this detective -- >> no, you're right. mark, you're correct. >> thank you, arthur. >> to give the last sentence, in my opinion this is a homicide, you're correct. the judge would not and should not allow that to come in. but everything else what did your investigation show? well, it showed me you had two individuals that were the same size, that mr. zimmerman failed to identify himself as someone from the neighborhood watch troupe. in his car a safe place, and he exited his car as opposed to just staying put before -- and that's when the encounter happened. megyn: wait, and i want you to react to that, mark, but this is the second sound bite where he asks zimmerman about why he stayed so close to trayvon and whether he felt that put him in danger. listen. >> why did you try to make close proximity to him? >> to tell the police what direction he was headed in. >> didn't you feel you were putting yourself in danger?
>> no. megyn: mark? >> you know, o'meara can say in retrospect there were many things he wished he had done differently, but the big issue is that the law doesn't preclude him from doing what he did. assuming what he's saying is true if he could have done something else. in other words, he's suggesting he should have said i'm on the neighborhood watch. no, i'm on my way to get eggs, bacon and milk. that's what he was doing. he wasn't doing a watch -- >> it does matter because it has to do with why trayvon reacted the way he did. look, i'm not following you to mug you, i'm on the neighborhood watch. do you belong here? yes. i'm going to see my dad. megyn: whether zimmerman set up the circumstances of the confrontation. however, there's also a potentially very helpful new piece of evidence.t we'll discuss it after the break. call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today.
megyn: so what we have here is a lead detective, a lead homicide detective who clearly has doubts about mr. zimmerman's story and whether his opinion will come into court, i don't know. however, they sat could down wih mr. zimmerman on the night in question and performed a voice stress test which is something less than a polygraph on the critical question of the night which is who confronted whom, you know, right before the fatal moment. and he passed. listen here. >> did you confront the guy you shot? >> no. megyn: that's pretty good evidence for him, mark. i know it's not admissible, but is that not pretty good evidence that he was telling the truth? >> well, in the court of public opinion, i say, absolutely, extremely reliable. the reality in court, it's right up there with, like, a by ouija board. there's no witness that can
refute zimmerman's version of how this took place. that's significant. megyn: that's the thing, arthur. the only one we have is trayvon's girlfriend who heard the beginning of the confrontation on a cell phone, but all she heard was why are you following me, one more line, and then the phone went dead. >> and let's bring it all the way back. that's where these bail hearings where there's some issues of credibility at the bail hearing then could come into play. because now -- >> not coming in. >> okay. >> objection,er relevant. -- irrelevant. more prejudicial than probative. >> the argument is if he's lied under oath before, very recently on this same matter, then would he tend to lie under oath -- >> why stop there, arthur? his wife asked him how she look inside a dress, and he said it was fabulous. it's not relevant. megyn: all right, listen, before we go, i can't leave that one remark hanging. now, you know, arthur actually has a law practice in italy. is the g in lasagna completely
useless? [laughter] >> no, because it gives you the the -- sound. megyn: arthur's mother always gets upset when i rule against arthur. there you go, mr. ayala, your son was dead on! [laughter] coming up, we'll go to colorado and the plaitest on those -- latest on those devastating fires. stay with us.
>>megyn: tomorrow is a big and important day for the nation as we await the supreme court ruling with two former attorneys general, mukasey and gonzalez. we will have the attorney who argued this case before the united states supreme court. and we will have a panel of insurance industry experts and doctors to put the ruling in perspective. see you tomorrow at 1:00 o'clock. >>shepard: and there will be a car chase, too boot, if we are lucky. >>megyn: nothing is more
important than tomorrow at 10:00. >>megyn: follow me on twitter. >>shepard: the news begins anew, hundred of firefighters with a serious problem. struggling to contain three massive wildfires in colorado, they is torched hundreds and hundreds of homes, forced tens of thousands to evacuate and burning out-of-control. the updates coming. and a man says a transportation security administration opened a jar that contained his grandfather's remains. put her fingers in the ashes, spilled her grandfather and laughed at him as he scooped it up. and the american civil rights union sometimes takes heat for being too political and too liberal from those on the right. so, what will the critics say, now that the aclu and defending the ku klux klan in its fight to sponsor a highway, all ahead unless breaking news changes everything.