tv Democracy Now PBS October 12, 2017 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT
harassment, sexual assault, and rape. we will speak with louise godbold who wrote "my encounter with harvey weinstein and what it tells us about trauma." and we will talk to psychology professor tomi-ann roberts, who will describe her encounter with weinstein more than 30 years ago lost up she now focuses on ofchological consequences the sexual objectification of women and girls. and we will talk to journalist and author irin carmon, he says women should not trust the men who call themselves allies. and as nbc news reports president trump called for a nearly tenfold increase in the u.s. nuclear weapons arsenal, is president trump taking us to war? military pundits say yes. brian inescapably, we are sliding toward war. i think part of the problem is going to be north koreans over
the last 50 years, have learned gaincan provoke, talk, compensation, and provoked again. in the go meanwhile, the u.s. is struggling to recover from a series of hurricanes and a 10th hurricane this year, ophelia, has just been named. as fires consume northern california. we will speak with robert jay lifton tomi-ann roberts, author of -- we will speak with robert jay lifton, author of many books. his new book is titled "the climate swerve: reflections on mind, hope, and survival." all of that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in california, the death toll from the wildfires burning statewide has risen to 23 people, with hundreds more still missing. the nearly two dozen fires have
consumed more than 170,000 acres, destroyed thousands of structures, and forced tens of thousands of people to flee their homes. more than 8000 firefighters are currently battling the blazes, working up to 80-hours straight. among them are prisoners, who are working for as little as a -- $1 a day. the firefighters have more than 500 fire engines, 73 helicopters and 30 airplanes, yet the uncontrollable fires are still spreading. calfire chief ken pimlott said, "these fires are literally just burning faster than firefighters can run." this is pimlott. >> we are still impacted by five years of drought. the significant rain we had last winter, those effects are gone of that moisture and we're literally looking at explosive vegetation. these fires are burning actively during the day and at night when one would expect a fire to subside. and make no mistake, this is a
serious, critical, catastrophic event. amy: some of the most destructive fires are in sonoma county, where officials are investigating pacific gas and electric co. power lines as the potential source of the fire. on sunday night as the fires began, there were multiple reports of downed power lines and exploding electrical transformers. pacific gas and electric co.'s failure to properly maintain its power lines has sparked fires in the past, including the 2015 fire that killed two people. president trump has threatened to retaliate against nbc, following nbc's report that trump is seeking to increase tenfold the united states' nuclear weapons arsenal. on wednesday, trump tweeted -- "with all of the fake news coming out of nbc and the networks, at what point is it appropriate to challenge their license? bad for country!" the federal government licenses television airwaves through the fcc. trump went on to tweet --
"network news has become so partisan, distorted and fake that licenses must be challenged and, if appropriate, revoked. not fair to public!" the threats drew immediate concerns trump is undermining the first amendment. this is constitutional lawyer floyd abrams. >> the idea of any president saying that broadcast licenses ought to be at risk because he disapproves of their news coverage raises really dangerous first amendment issues. this is unadulterated richard nexen. this is precisely the sort of thing that the nexen administration dead, threatening broadcasters with antitrust actions, threatening them with taking the license away all to get better coverage. it is the most direct sort of threat to the first amendment
that president trump has made since he was sworn in. amy: the magazine "vanity fair" reports that some of president trump's closest aides and advisers say he is unstable and unraveling, and that the white house is increasingly consumed by chaos. according to the article, former white house chief strategist steve bannon reportedly said he thinks trump has only a 30% chance of finishing his first term, and that the threat is the 25th amendment -- the right for cabinet members to vote to remove the president. when bannon mentioned the 25th amendment to trump, the president reportedly said "what's that?" meanwhile, "the washington post" reports one of trump's closest friends, tom barrack, says he's shocked by trump's behavior. world leaders, senior u.s. officials, and u.s. lawmakers are all pressuring president trump not to decertify the landmark 2015 nuclear deal with iran, which trump is expected to
do as early as friday. among those pressuring trump is former israeli prime minister ehud barak, known as a anti-iran hawk, who nonetheless is calling the proposed withdrawal a mistake, saying -- u.s. defense secretary james mattis has also urged trump to stick with the deal, and the trump administration has certified that iran has complied with its obligations. in hollywood, new revelations about harvey weinstein have surfaced, showing that his studio, weinstein company, knew for at least two years that weinstein had been paying off women who accused him of sexual harassment and assault. weinstein has been fired from the company as a slew of hollywood's top actresses publicly accused him of harassment and assault, and rape. judd, gwyneth paltrow, angelina jolie and rose mcgowan. many are asking why maattan district attorney cyrus vance refused to prosecute weinstein after he confessed to groping filipina-italian model ambra
battilana gutierrez in a audio recording captured in a 2015 new york police sting operation. one of weinstein's lawyers at the time donated $10,000 to vance's election campaign only days after vance decided not to prosecute the case. we will have more on highbury -- harvey weinstein after headlines. in syria, the u.s.-led coalition fighting isis in raqqa say wednesday it will not accept a negotiated withdrawal to end the fighting in the northeastern syrian city that was once isis's de facto capital. thousands of civilians remain trapped in the 2.5 square miles still controlled by isis. activists say more than 1000 civilians have already been killed since the u.s.-led offensive to seize control of the city began in june. the journalistic monitoring group airwars says dozens of civilians have reportedly been killed in the last week, including in a barrage of airstrikes october 6, which
reportedly collapsed a number of apartment buildings, killing up to 40 people. meanwhile, in eastern syria of , tens thousands of civilians have been displaced by fighting against isis in deir ez-zor. this is alaa, speaking from a makeshift camp. >> papers started falling down as from a plane saying to surrender yourselves and you and feel safety there medical care for sick children. you just have to wave the white flag. we did as they told us and showed up. on the road, i encountered landmines and suffered from cold and hunger. this road is called the death road. if we stay here, this is death. amy: president trump says he plans to nominate kirstjen nielsen to serve as the homeland security secretary. john kelly, trump's previous homeland security secretary, now serves as trump's chief of staff. nielsen is a longtime dhs official, recently serving as kelly's chief of staff. under president george w. bush, she was the senior director for preparedness and response at the white house security council ahead of hurricane katrina.
she was subsequently singled out in congressional reports as one of the key figures in the bush administration who had been warned about the impending catastrophe of katrina, but failed to act. she's also worked in the for-profit security industry, first at a firm called civitas group, and then founding the security firm sunesis consulting. the boy scouts have announced they plan to accept girls into the program beginning next year. this comes after the boy scouts first ended its ban on openly gay boy scouts, and then transgender scouts. and today, the state of texas is planning to execute robert pruett. he has been imprisoned since he was 15 years old. he was sentenced to death for the murder of a prison guard. he has a was maintained his innocence, saying it was framed by corrupt prison guards. there is a physical evidence tying him to the murder. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. nermeen: and i'm nermeen shaikh.
welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. today we look at the fallout from two shocking investigations by "the new yorker" and "the new york times," which revealed a slew of rape and sexual assault allegations against disgraced and now-fired movie producer harvey weinstein, who had been one of the most powerful men in hollywood for decades. weinstein has also been a major contributor to the democratic party. this week, "the new yorker" reported three women say harvey weinstein raped them, while more say weinstein masturbated in front of them or forcibly touched them without their consent. among the accusers is former aspiring actress lucia evans, who says she had just finished her junior year at middlebury at the miramax office.nvited to she said he pushed her head down and "forced me to perform oral sex on him. i said, over and over, 'i don't want to do this, stop, don't.'
i tried to get away. he's a big guy. he overpowered me." another woman, who was not named, says weinstein forced himself on her during a meeting and raped her while she repeatedly said no. like others in the article, she says she did not report the alleged rape and forced herself to continue to have professional contact with weinstein because "i was in a vulnerable position and i needed my job. it just increases the shame and the guilt." the article also reveals audio from a 2015 nypd sting operation, in which weinstein confesses to groping filipina-italian model ambra battilana gutierrez. the recording starts with weinstein. nermeen: while this was from a
we really are based on the facts, not what people think about it, not whether people like party or not. he has some serious issues. i have to be guided by the evidence and the evidence of the crime. amy: "the new york times" reports weinstein was represented in talks with the district attorney's office by two defense lawyers with ties to cy vance. one of the lawyers at the time donated $10,000 to his campaign just days after vance decided not to prosecute the case. "the new yorker" reports 16 current or former employees of weinstein's companies say they personally knew about weinstein's assaults or harassment. today "the new york times" reported weinstein's company has been aware of several confidential settlements he made with women since 2015.
meanwhile, a slew of hollywood's most high-profile actresses have told "the new york times" they too experienced weinstein's harassment. among them -- ashley judd, gwyneth paltrow, angelina jolie, rose mcgowan, and "pulp fiction" star rosanna arquette. paltrow said -- we're at a point in time when women need to send a clear message that this is over. this way of treating women ends now." on wednesday, rose mcgowan reported that her twitter account had been suspended. mcgowan had been using twitter support other women who have come forward and to attack those she saw as complicit, including the weinstein company board of directors and high profile actors matt damon and ben affleck. rose mcgowan accused ben affleck of lying about his knowledge of weinstein's history of sexual misconduct. weinstein's wife, georgina chapman, a well-known fashion designer, says she's ending their 10-year marriage. on tuesday, former president
barack obama and former secretary of state hillary clinton both condemned weinstein, who has been a major democratic donor. in a statement, obama said he and michelle have been disgusted by the reports and said -- "any man who demeans and degrades women in such fashion needs to be condemned and held accountable, regardless of wealth or status." for more, we're joined by several guests. joining us via democracy now! video streaming colorado is tomi-ann roberts, who says she harassed by harvey weinstein more than 30 years ago in 1984 when she was an aspiring actress. her work focuses on the psychological consequences of the sexual objectification of women and girls. in los angeles, we're joined by louise godbold, who wrote about her experience titled "my encounter with harvey weinstein and what it tells us about trauma." she is the executive director of
echo parenting & education. and here in new york, irin carmon is a contributing writer at "the washington post." her piece is headlined "women , shouldn't trust the men who call themselves allies." she is also the author of the new york times bestseller, "notorious rbg: the life and times of ruth bader ginsberg." we welcome you all to democracy now! tomi-ann roberts, louise godbold, irin carmon. tomi-ann roberts, let's begin with you. let's begin with what happened to you more than 30 years ago in 1984. how did you come in contact with harvey weinstein? >> well, the stories are beginning to sound monotonous, right? chillingly familiar. i was waiting tables. i was a student at smith college and several friends and i had decided to spend the summer in new york city pursuing our dream. so we sublet an apartment.
i was waiting tables at a restaurant, and that is where i met both top and harvey weinstein. they were relative newcomers on the scene. explained to me their new company miramax. and pretty soon, i was given to believe that i might be someone who could audition for a movie they were going to be writing and directing. it would have been their first movie they were writing and directing here in the united states. i think i thought to myself, such a new company might not take such a new unknn person for granted, so i decided that i would try to audition for that movie. throughout the course of the summer, i received scripts. i did visit the office on occasion. then i was invited to what i believed was harvey's apartment. my expectation was that others
involved in the movie would be there as well, and that turned out not to be the case. rather darkened hallway i discovered him in the bathtub. mightncounter, as you imagine, was petrifying to a 20-year-old. i sort of stood there frozen. calmeinstein was quite about trying to explain to me that if i would at least take my top off, this would demonstrate to him that i wasn't going to be shy about doing so in front of the cameras. the movie was likely to have topless scenes. and looking back, as i said in several interviews now, i am slightly ashamed to think that the only way i could imagine getting out of there was not running, but rather politely sort of self-effacing the apologizing for the fact that i did not feel comfortable with that.
and did eventually exit found a pay phone and called my boyfriend. basically, through my acting aspirations in the waste basket. amy: you had actually gone back to one of your tryouts, your additions where they said you are moving forward and they told you they weren't interested anymore, weinstein's company? was don't know if it weinstein's company. it was a casting agent. at the time, i was so frightened because of the previous experience that i convinced one of my housemates to come with me, rather larger young man. once we got there, it was pretty clear that harvey himself -- neither party nor bob were going to be there and a casting agent was a very kind, older woman just sort of said to me "you know you're not getting this part, right?" reading. do the it felt ready -- i felt pretty
lousy about it and that was about -- domingo tomi-ann roberts, you talk about feeling ashamed or apologizing as you laughed. but one of the things that is so extraordinary about your experience is in fact you did have the wherewithal and the kind of gumption to actually walk out because as you point out, women who find themselves in these situations are so shocked at what actually occurs, they are frozen. could you explain a little bit -- you can talk about your experience, but more generally, how it is that women respond or what it is that prevents women in some instances from acting the way they retrospectively feel they should have acted? > right. right. i think that is probably something that a clinical psychologist would have a lot to say about, about the kinds of
things that can happen when we know there are a number of different reactions to shock. and one would be to fight. one would be to flee. but the other is to freeze. i think that freeze response is so overwhelming. and i think that once you and the powerge differential in these kinds of situations, so many women describe a similar way of exiting -- which is a you sort of put it on yourself. you politely -- you tap and all of the feminine socialization that has been part of your life since you were called a pretty little girl, and you apologize. you say that this is something about you, not something about him, this powerful man who might otherwise retaliate, and you bow out, backing her way to the door. your onlynd that "power" in the situation is to appear to be someone who is just not really up for this. i think that is a way of not
poking the bear. that is a way of no try to say "it's not you, it's me." talkbefore we quickly about another experience and then have this broader discussion, what was your response now, more than 30 years later, it when you started reading the accounts of women who describe very similar encounters, or much more serious , "the new york ease" begins three women are claiming rape, what did you think today? >> so chilling. you know, i carried this with me for so long. i'm not a person who is involved in hollywood. i went on a got my phd. i live my life in academia. there were never many opportunities other than maybe at an oscars party where you're hanging out with friends and harvey weinstein is on stage.
when that piece came out on thursday by jodi kantor, it was -- it opens -- amy: "the new york times" piece. odi andote in email to j never thought she would read it. "i'mn the imo by saying not an actress, i'm a 54-year-old college professor. this is going to be crazy, but i t happened to me." it was a way of me looking back at the whole narrative arc is cisco at the ways in which for the rest of my scholarly life i really, really have been moved and motivated to study these things and to try and help stop this kind of treatment, as gwyneth paltrow so wonderfully said, "this way of treating women and girls ends now." amy: we're going to go to break, but we want you to stay with us, tomi-ann roberts, who describes
her experience of being harassed by harvey weinstein back in 1984 when she was an aspiring actress. to thosean end aspirations, but now she looks at the objectification of girls and women in her psychological research. when we return, another experience and then a broader discussion. this is democracy now! we will be back in a minute. ♪ [music break]
the film was distributed by the weinstein company, which harvey weinstein co-founded. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. we continue our look at the fallout from two shocking investigations which revealed a slew of rape and sexual assault allegations against disgraced and now fired movie producing -- producer harvey weinstein, who had been one of the most powerful men in hollywood for decades. he is also been a major contributor to the democratic party. and you go we're joined by tomi-ann roberts, you just heard, professor of psychology now at colorado college, who describes her experience in 1984 with harvey weinstein when she was in aspiring actress. in los angeles, we're joined by louise godbold, who wrote about her experience and a blog post that was entitled "my encounter with harvey weinstein and what it tells us about trauma." she is the executive director of echo parenting & education.
can you tell us, louise godbold, about what your encounter was and what it tells you about trauma? harveyd you first meet weinstein, who is now been fired and -- well, we will see what happens. we will see if in fact he will be prosecuted. scores of women are now coming forward talking about their expenses with him. what happened to you, louise? >> firstly, let me thank you very much, amy and nermeen for creating a safe space for creating a safe space to tell the story. part of what happens is what happens when a woman comes forward. it is been a very interesting journey since i block them out on monday. as tomi-annience, roberts said, chillingly similar to the other stories. when i wrote my blog, i did not
going to detail. i didn't think it was necessary. the patterns are there clear to see. i was also very young. i was 28, but a young 28. i had met harvey and bob socially in london. a friend of mine is an actress. they were just starting out. they would come to her brunch parties. when i was traveling through new york, i had an appointment with harvey's pr person to talk about interning in the u.s. as i went past harvey's office, i saw him there. it felt strange not to say hello, especially if i was going to be there as an intern. that resulted in a tour of the office in tribeca. and him cornering me and nt meeting room and putting my hand on his crotch. i got out of there as fast as i could.
and then he called my friend, our mutual friend, to say he apologized, was the pressure of work, was coming up to become your words or something like that. was i going to do anything about it? and sadly, in the 1990's, that was the last thing on my mind. i felt like this was somebody i had known and who maybe had lurched at me trustingly at a party and you know, you kind of shrug it off. so the next month when i was in los angeles, i was invited to his hotel suite and i thought that he was going to make things right. he knew i was trying to get started in the film industry in the u.s. of mine, a, a friend male friend of mine, drove me to the hotel and waited in the lobby because after chatting -- i the industry and would love to know this detail
from other women. did he tell you to read "genius of the system" because he was telling me to do that? wasnext thing i know, he asking for a shoulder massage. i don't remember all of the details, but somehow or other, i ended up in his bedroom with him in that asking me to do a massage him and then he got up eyes.at was a ciphers or i won't go into details. and then he tried to give me a massage. said, one ofoberts our most primitive survival instincts is to freeze. i had been frozen, confused, scared, and barest -- primarily because i had a friend waiting downstairs in the lobby, i was able to make my excuses and get out of there. never told anybody because i did want to get my start in the industry. it would have been suicide to
have said anything. then i moved on into a different industry and didn't really think much more about it until i saw " the new york times" report. then when i heard that harvey wanted to sue "the new york times," that is when i got really angry because the patterns are so familiar. and i hadn't realized that this had happened to so many women. and so i got mad. i contacted the lawyer who is representing, the person who brought this original case, and wanted to tell my story. so that is how i got involved. nermeen: louise, you ask in your blog post in question that is repugnant. -- pertinent. first of all, this practice is widespread.
you ask in your blog post, why is it that women carry the shame of their abusers? can you talk about that? why is that? -- i think it is partly conditioning. and that goes back to your childhood. it goes back to this colter of compliance that we have in our parenting, inner education system. and we focus so much on that and not on building relationships and connection, that we and up -- end up very vulnerable to either them discovering the way to get things is by being a bully, which is what happened harvey, clearly, or you end up
the other end of that power dynamic where you are more vulnerable to finding yourself in these kind of situations and the adverse charted experience study has shown that people who have experienced childhood trauma or inverse city are much more likely to be victims of sexual assault later. you end up one or the other set of this dynamic. if you're on the side of the person who is being targeted, you feel like it is your fault. i know that tomi-ann roberts has said that in her reporting of the incident, that she felt like it was her fault. but there is not a lot to contradict you. your friends and family, out of love for you, what to protect you. thank you, "don't say anything." as recently as yesterday, "steer clear of this. your nose clean. don't get involved." in the messages, "you will be doing something wrong."
at least, that is how i perceived it. you will be rocking the boat. you will be bringing all of this shame upon your head. and if you do, well, you know, that is on you -- which is a bit like saying, if you find yourself alone with harvey, that is on you. or like saying, if you wore that dress, that is like you and you can extend it all the way back to "if you're a woman, you should just expect to be a target of men." amy: i want to ask you about the second part, this issue of trauma, and that is something you deal with today. , if you could expand on it? >> absolutely. we trained professionals and, informed care. tomi-ann roberts has already covered the three primary are ines when you
survival mode, the fight, flight, freeze. but i think what i have learned after writing that blog and experiencing the fallout is that we need to educate everybody about trauma so people can become trauma-informed. not just be friends and family i'm talking about who actively were trying to protect me and suggesting i do not come forward, but also for the media has beenay this story handled. i have to tell you, i have been traumatized bye- some of the conversations i've had for people wanting interviews. i know these are good people and i know that they would be trauma-informed if they could be, they just don't have the information. for example, when we train legal advocates who are working with sexual assault survivors, the first thing that you say is "i believe you."
i had an interview with one of theyorporate networks who canceled because the lawyer said, well, you don't have a corroborating story. the reason i don't have a corroborating story is because the person who waited for me the lobby of the hotel does not want to come forward. so i went home and after 26 years, cried my eyes out because before i had been a private, interesting situation, now i .eel like i am believed and mission that comes with that and the anger that comes with that. so i have learned a lot about we generally need to become more trauma-informed. believing the survivor and offering support, i would have loved for some of to say to me, "you brave, brave, girl" rather than "don't do this. sit down. shut up."
amy: i want to go to one of the people who broke this story, ronan farrow. his interview on tuesday night with msnbc rachel maddow about why he published his major investigation into harvey weinstein in the new yorker magazine when he said computing nbc. this was his response. >> you have to ask nbc and nbc executives about the detail. i'm not going to comment on the story they did or did not run. i will say that over many years, many news organizations have circled this story and faced a great deal of pressure in doing so. emerging now reports publicly about the kinds of pressure that news organizations face in this. and that israel. amy: by the way, ronan farrow w'sail faro -- is mia farro some. i want to bring in irin carmon, a contributor with a piece
headlined "women should not trust the men who call themselves allies." she's also an author of "the new york times" bestseller, "notorious rbg: the life and times of ruth bader ginsberg." irin, talk about why you're raising this issue now and start with what ronan farrow just nbc spikedissue of the story. collects the first thing i want to say is i'm astonished by the courage of the women were talking about this right now. if you want to see how hard it is, just listen to the words that ronan said. he was able to do something that journalists have been trying to do for a long time, which is published a story, not just report on it, but reach to publications that document of what clearly is a systemic pattern of abuse from harvey weinstein. one of the reasons they were not able to do that is because the standard is so high for corroborating details in a way
that often reject in mice his people. and by asking for this kind of corroboration, networks are trained in so late themselves from legal threats will stop the fact this is a powerful men who managed to get the best council that money could buy, extremely well-connected, who effectively bought off people who were in impediment to him shows what a difficult journey it was just to get the stories to come to life. i think that is job number one. you mention "the hunting ground." harvey weinstein, among other people that he sort of bought off or implicated, whether they knew it or not in the kind of behavior which you was engaging, are advocates for women's rights. he funded for has her ship in gloria steinem's name. he went to the women's march in utah during the sundance film festival. myself as aand, for feminist, i would love to welcome men to this fight.
we cannot do it i ourselves. we can't have a one-sided revolution. this has to be something where gender roles are revolutionized for everyone for more safe and equal world. it when you people who are putting on the cloak of gender inequality as a way to hide their misdeeds, i think all of us need to stop and say, what truly constitutes an ally? when is summit just talking the talk and using the good faith of women -- which, by the way, we are also socialized to given the benefit of the doubt as a cover to abuse us. nermeen: one of the people who has come out against weinstein is a former employee of his, lauren o'connor, who in her letter to several executives of the company run by weinstein wrote -- "i am a 28-year-old woman trying to make a living in a career. harvey weinstein is a 64-year-old world-famous man and this is his company. the balance of power is me,
zero. harvey weinstein, 10." what are the implications of that? you talked about the fear that media companies have of running stories like this because of the fear of legal consequences. i talk about the broader implications of this, the fact there such massive car ageerential and difference. >> the memo put this so beautifully. this is all about power. this is about somebody who the very exercise of power against people who are more vulnerable was what appealed to him, not because of what we're hearing from this week, "harvey liked pretty girls." it is so clear from hearing the accounts it was the abuse of power he was after in the scenarios. i am struck by the fact that so many of these women did what victims are told to do in the civil round, and the sexual harassment realm.
document what happens, tell your superiors. that is what the woman did. you mentioned ambra battilana gutierrez, a woman who came back to a man who had assaulted her wearing a wire at tremendous danger to herself. and rather than being followed up by prosecution, which is what she clearly hoped for, she does just that she previously had accused people of assault, dragged through the mud. amy: her story is unbelievable. she walked out of harvey weinstein's place straight to the police station. she said "i've just been assaulted." they took her seriously and said "we're going to why are you." andwent back the next night she had this encounter that we played earlier irma just a clip of it. it goes on. vance come of the da, decided not to prosecute.
"the times" has an interesting mr.e today where is says, weinstein was represented in talks with the district attorney's office by two defense lawyers with ties to mr. vance. do not as connolly, a former mr.attan prosecutor, and vance up a guess former law partner in a donor to his campaign said on wednesday the donations had not influenced him. >> whether the donations influenced him or not, i think it is clear there were a series of interactions that show how powerful harvey weinstein was, whether was monetary or influence. i remember one of the reports today mention the prosecution of dominique strauss-kahn, powerful men accused of sexual assault weather was in the prosecution that was dropped after the victim herself was questioned -- rench politician. >> i think any prosecutor wants
to bring a case they know they can win. whent is difficult to win legal counsel that money can buy , when someone is able to purchase the silence -- i mean, the way in which nondisclosure agreements and settlements, including with miss o'connor, had been used. money ultimately was used to silence these women because they realized, probably, they made a calculation that if they went through with it, they would end up with even less. that he wasas available to keep abusing people and continued doing so. amy: the idea that this is just being known now is obviously completely untrue. we're going to go to break and come back and play just a couple of clips. one of them was seen by come i don't know they say who watches the oscars, like one billion people. and the other one from "30 rock" referring directly to harvey weinstein. then we will continue our discussion with irin carmon of
"the washington post," as well we will be joined by two women who describe their own encounters with harvey weinstein , tomi-ann roberts who is still professor of psychology who looks of the sexual objectification of girls and women at colorado college, and louise godbold, as she talks about trauma. this is democracy now! we will be back in a minute. ♪ [music break]
harvey weinstein, who has just been fired by his board as dozens of women come forward. we continue to look at the fallout investigations by "the new yorker" and "the new york times" of the allegations against harvey weinstein. one of the most powerful men in hollywood for decades. weinstein also a major contributor to the democratic party. this is a clip from the nbc show "30 rock" in 2012 when the jenna says that she isn't afraid of anyone in show business and says that she has "turned down intercourse with harvey weinstein on no less than three occasions." >> that's too bad, did they also take over your handgun license? >> don't do it. >> i'm not afraid of anyone in
show business. i turned out intercourse with harvey weinstein on no less than three occasions. of seth this is a clip mcfarlane at the 2013 oscar nominations, when mcfarlane joked about harvey weinstein's behavior. >> the 2012 nominees for best performance by an actress in a supporting role are, sally field ," annecoln hathaway, jackie weaver, helen adams.nd amy congratulations you five ladies no longer have to pretend to be attracted to harvey weinstein. [laughter] that was 2013. seth mcfarlane has since
responded to the re-surfacing of his comment. on wednesday he tweeted -- "in 2011, my friend and colleague jessica barth, with whom i worked on the ted films, confided in me regarding her encounter with harvey weinstein and his attempted advances. she has since courageously come forward to speak out. it was with this account in mind that, when i hosted the oscars in 2013, i couldn't resist the opportunity to take a hard swing in his direction. make no mistake, this came from a place of loathing and anger. there is nothing more abhorrent and indefensible than abuse of power such as this. i respect and applaud my friend jessica and those sharing their stories for their decision to come forward, and for being champions of the truth." his response to criticism online. journalist andrew mcgrath wrote --
well, this is completed and we are going to take it apart right now with our guest. we're joined by tomi-ann roberts , who described her story the beginning of the seller, professor of psychology at colorado college. she says she was harassed by harvey weinstein in 1984, when she was an aspiring actress. and that ended her aspirations. in los angeles, louise godbold wrote about her experience in a blog "my encounter with harvey weinstein and what it tells us about trauma." she is not director of echo parenting & education.
wrote "women shouldn't trust the men who call themselves allies." your response to "30 rock." the oscars, a billion people are more watching. >> it endears me, specifically the seth mcfarlane joked. we should think about rape jokes as follows. do they punch down the echo is the rate victim or potential but of the joke? i think you can get up about women have to pretend to be attracted to a man who was abusing them, something he knew at the time -- amy: and said he was enraged by. >> a dozens and like an expression of rage to me. , girlsds like ha ha ha have to pretend to like these monsters. it sounds like it is a joke at their expense to me. >> it is oldest joke in the world. amy: professor of psychology, tomi-ann roberts, respond.
>> it is the oldest joke in the world. sexist power the differential. it is not just harvey weinstein 10, me, zero. it is men at the oscars 10 all women at the oscars zero. once you tell a joke like that. it is a joke about men being men. it is a joke about what we all have to assume to be the case, which is that these women had to use their sexualized bodies to get these parts and no heavy they don't have to anymore. give me a break. amy: tomi-ann roberts, i want to ask you about another fact that has emerged with these revelations, namely that a disturbing one is that weinstein systematically used women who worked with him or for him to facilitate a number of these liaisons with aspiring vulnerable and vulnerable actresses who hoped to get work
from him. so could you talk about that, or yeah, iat he made guessed made his female employees do this work for him? in the second thing, which in number of people have pointed out, sexual abuse was by no means the only kind of abuse he dispensed. he was known for flying into fits of rage and systematically demeaning his employees, both male and female. talk about those different forms of abuse, how often they go together, and also his use of his female employees for this purpose -- presumably, began actresses would trust more. >> i think there are a lot of things going on, not the least of which is, this is a man who truly objectifies humans. -- by of justification, objectification, the definition, to use a human being as a tool,
as a means to an and. person's sexualized body as the tool. it seems to me as though what we are talking about with a lot of these women who had to be part of this whole situation, it is stockholm syndrome. you get close to the power so that you aren't going to be the victim of the power. is systemic quality of this astonishing. it takes a lot of people to decades -- three decades of this kind of objectification. you're going to have to organize. you're going to have to get the trips around -- troops around you. the best thing you can do is have other young women working in the service of this thing. you convinced those other young women and small is sometimes probably great ways that if they do this for you, he is not going to do something bad to you.
response to myof professor tomi-ann roberts, have you gotten since you have come out? >> i feel so sorrowful to hear the other interviewees response of feeling re-traumatized. i will tell you, my cell phone has not stopped ringing. i haven't gotten a lot of sleep. i.e. mail has blown up. -- might enough has blown up with people more interested in hearing the story. a into the putting an out of office reply on my emailed the to recount't want the salacious details of this story anymore. you can read them in "the new york times." if you want to talk to me about the larger issues, if you want to talk to me about this way treating girls and women, then i am happy." atization -- my poor mother who is quite elderly had to receive a phone call is
corroboration. did she remember me telling her this story in 1984? that wasn't easy for her. and i think for the most part i want to say i've received a lot of support and a lot of cheering. i'm a feminist. and part of feminist community's. feminist have surrounded me and said, "way to go." amy: irin carmon, finally, hearing that "the new york times" had started a story to years ago but the story did not go forward, what people can learn now and how you think this these to be dealt with? i want to end with a response of louise godbold in l.a. on how people have responded to you. we have less than a minute. >> i think what to look at how we normalize this kind of behavior, how these kinds of abuses of power and acceptance of the kind of power dynamic that we have been talking about
has become so normal that we don't even see a piece of behavior -- abusive behavior hiding in plain sight. the stories of harvey weinstein are about how he was an old studio hollywood head list of people did not know the extent of this, but they also did not know because he continued to make the money and it would prefer not -- amy: do you think he will go to jail? "the new yorker" police started with the claim of three women. >> i think it seems to be evidence of a crime, but based on the past, i would be shocked if he saw the inside of a ja il so. amy: louise godbold? >> i'm so glad i've not been asked or been pressured by you details.t lurid i'm not a victim. i am a survivor. and by telling my story, it has empowered me. i incurred to other women to take the situation -- anchorage other women to take the situation and let it empowered them so they can express push
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