tv This Week With George Stephanopoulos ABC June 28, 2015 8:00am-9:01am PDT
>> announcer: starting right now on abc's "this week" -- marriage for all, the historic supreme court ruling. >> our love is equal. >> the man who brought the ground-breaking case is here. obamacare saved again. >> aca is here to stay! >> announcer: another landmark ruling. plus, message to the nation, the president's extraordinary eulogy. for the pastor murdered in the charleston tragedy. where does the debate over the confederate flag go on? america's week of epic transformation. we're covering every angle and 2016 contenders mike huckabee and bernie sanders are here, live. >> announcer: from abc news, "this week" with george stephanopoulos begins now.
what a week it has been, rarely has so much history been made in so few days. confederate flags falling all across the south. rainbow flags raising across the country. at the center of it all, president obama, in what may be his best week in office. he passes a trade bill that was left for dead days ago. saving obamacare for the second time. and for the first time, securing the right to marriage for all americans. >> this decision affirms what millions of americans already believe in their hearts, when all americans are treated as equal, we are all more free. then, that arresting scene in charleston, a president summoning the spirit of america in song. ♪ amazing grace ♪ ♪ how sweet -- ♪
>> what a week. so much debate and analysis this morning. we begin at the supreme court, with our expert terry moran, you have been covering the court for about degree decades. have you seen back-to-back cases pack such a powerful punch? >> reporter: george, the court has seen a lot of history. i can't think of a week to match it. the court with emphatic finality, bringing to a close two national debates that have been roiling the country, health care, obamacare, and equality for gays and lesbians under the marriage laws. the tremendous power of this court and the men and women who sit on it. >> and the most powerful chief justice john roberts, president obama voted against him when he was confirmed as chief justice. but now, for the second time, justice roberts saves obamacare. >> he's going to be chief justice for a long time, however, and we did see in that case, and in the gay marriage case something very true about
him, this is a judge who doesn't like to swing for the fences. he wouldn't join justice scalia the last time or this time in bringing down obamacare, and this time, plunging the health care of millions of americans into chaos and he wouldn't join justice kennedy in rewriting the marriage laws. he's a don't rock the boat justice on a court that likes to rock the boat. >> in fact, in that same-sex marriage case, a pretty fierce dissent by the justice. but justice kennedy. >> what an unlikely champion of gay rights. i actually covered his confirmation hearing back in 1987 when he took over from judge robert bork and that debate was fiercely intellectual. from the get-go, right until this week, justice kennedy has always shown for him to judging isn't just about intellectual rigor and much to the mockery of many conservatives in academics he's always brought heart to his decisions.
and a when libertarian streak, decisions.a liberty, the most important word in justice kennedy's jurisprudence. to all americans under the marriage laws. and wrote really a landmark opinion. >> okay, thanks, terry. now, to the man who brought that landmark case to the supreme court, jim obergefell. with his husband dying from als, he filed suit so he could be recognized as surviving spouse. there he is on the steps of the supreme court this week, celebrating the decision. he joins us from san francisco this morning and here in the new york, one of the founding fathers of the same-sex marriage movement. jim, we saw you on the supreme court steps, getting that phone call also from president obama on friday, two days out, how does it all feel? >> it still feels a bit unreal, george i find it hard to
believe that the simple fight that i started with my husband and by simple it was about us, it's now had implications so far beyond us. it's amazing. >> lot of americans still upset by this ruling, governor mike huckabee is going to be coming on the program later, he's calling on people to reject judicial tyranny. what is your message to him? >> i would simply like to say, think about your brother, your son, your sister, your daughter, a dear friend, if one of them were gay, they would still be the same person, you would still love them. and wouldn't you want them to enjoy the same rights that you do? we're simply asking to be treated equally and fairly and to enjoy the institution of marriage and to be able to commit to the ones we love. >> chief justice roberts' fiery dissent. he read from the bench. one of the points he made, your movement is making progress all
across the country, legislation -- legislators are voting for same-sex marriage and that's where it belongs. he went on the say this, stealing this issue from the people will cast a cloud over same-sex marriage making a dramatic social change that much more difficult to accept. how do you respond to that? >> well, i think it's no more true in this case than in brown versus education. we worked very hard to move the american people and the american people did move, 63% now support the freedom to marry, and that will go way up. way back it was 27% when i started working on this. the fact of the matter is, we have a constitution and the constitution guarantees the freedom to marry the equality that jim spoke so movingly and we shouldn't have to be working to get a vote and be up or down on whether any american can share in that constitutional guarantee.
>> you laid out the seeds of this argument back in 1983, you were in harvard law school, that was your thesis at harvard law school. what now? freedom to marry, your group goes out of business, what is the next challenge? >> right. well, of course, the work is not done. we need to harness the conversation, we need to bring the stories like jim's and john's and many others to places where the conversation has only just started. in alabama and texas and so on. and give people a chance to see the quiet dignity of gay couples. we need to harness that growth and understanding that will come from people seeing these real people to the work ahead, including particularly, a federal civil rights law prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. and gender identity. >> and jim, what's next for you? >> george, for me, it will be to continue in this fight, i have discovered that fighting for
something that's bigger than me is very important to me and i will continue like evan said, to be involved in the fight for nondiscrimination, to make sure that the lgbt community across the country truly is equal part of society and deserving. >> jim obergefell and evan, thank you. let's turn now to mike huckabee former governor of arkansas, now running for president, you just heard jim obergefell, what is your response? >> you know, i'm deeply moved by his comments and i understand his personal passions, but i would warn people that what we have seen this week is something that changes not so much the product but the process of how we govern, we have always been a nation of law, we're now a nation of men, what happened this week, as so brilliantly pointed out by justice scalia, this was done through a
court edict of five unelected lawyers part of a committee who decided that they knew better than the legislators who get to make law. they know better than people in over 30 states. and george, this case wasn't so much about a matter of marriage equality, it was marriage redefinition. and i think people have to say, if you're going to have a new celebration that we're not going to discriminate, may i ask, are we going to now discriminate against people of conscience, people of faith who may disagree of this ruling? are they going to be forced out of business? the florists, caters, like the ceo of mozilla who was run out of his job because of his contribution to support -- are we going to trade one level
of what's called discrimination for a new level of discrimination. >> what are you calling on people to do right now? spell out exactly what that means. >> george, judicial tyranny is when we believe that the courts have a right to bypass the process of law and we really have seen it this week in two cases, in both the obamacare case, where justice scalia said we should call it scotuscare. because they have rescued it twice. and then in the same-sex marriage. >> are you calling for civil disobedience? >> i don't think a lot of pastors and christian schools are going to have a choice, they're either going to follow god, and what they truly believe what the scripture teaches them or they will follow civil law, they'll go the path of dr. martin luther king, who, in his brilliant essay reminded us, that an unjust law is no law at all. i do think we're going to see a
lot of pastors who will have to make this tough decision, you're going to see it on the part of christian business owners, you'll see it on the part of christian university presidents. christian school administrators. >> how about county clerks? should they issue same-sex marriage licenses? >> if they have an objection i think they should be excused. i'm not sure that every governor and every attorney general should say, it's the law of the land because there's no enabling legislation. the states who have a constitutional amendment that affirms marriage, as has been affirmed by courts for 135 years, since the ratification of the 14th amendment, right up through the first time we have seen same-sex marriage enacted by any state, which was massachusetts. in many states, you have overwhelming majorities of the people who voted to say that they believe marriage is between a man and a woman. george, what we have done. let me ask people on the left, if we get a future court that is
conservative and that conservative court decides that this was a mistake and we're going to go back to traditional marriage and we're also going to say that every unborn person is in fact a person and is absolutely guaranteed due process and, therefore, we would strike down the idea of abortion from conception forward, is the left going to be okay to let the supreme court make that decision? >> so, let me ask you this -- >> because based on the response this week, i think they is to say, that's fine. when five lawyers on the supreme court make that decision, we're okay with it. >> so, you're president today, let's assume that for a second, would you refuse to enforce this decision? >> i would say when the congress provides enabling legislation and the people's representatives vote and it gets to my desk then we'll consider it. we have seen something that i find very interesting. when the president lit up the white house the other night with rainbow colors, i guess that's his prerogative.
if i become president, i just want to remind people that please don't complain if i were to put a nativity scene out during christmas and say, if it's my house, i get to do with it what i wish. can spite what people around the country may feel about it. >> let me talk about the other big issue of the week coming out of those killings at a church in south carolina, we have seen a cascade of states and business take down the confederate flag, what is your reaction to that? >> i think south carolina made a proper decision and the governor is to be commended for her leadership. she and tim scott and lindsey graham stepped up and said if this is hurting people if this is an offense, it's not worth it to be so divisive. i know this will cause a lot of angst, it was republicans who stepped up and made this happen. let me give tribute to the republican governor who back in
the mid-'90s also attempted to do this and essentially lost his re-election because of it. so, when people talk about the republicans don't care about race, i find that incredibly, not only offensive, george, i find it wrong. because in so many cases, whether it was eisenhower or others, it was republicans who were at the forefront of bringing civil rights. >> you said when president obama got elected the gop had done a pathetic job to reach out to other people. do you think that's changed? what did you make of president's eulogy in south carolina? >> well i think so much of it was brilliant. by the way, he has a wonderful voice. post-presidential i see a recording contract in his future. there were times when i think he strayed into more of a political agenda than a true eulogy. e presided at a lot of funerals 30 years ago.
i never used it as an occasion to focus on the person and the qualities of that person who was deceased and not to make it a time of cause. >> governor mike huckabee, thank you for joining us this morning. let's get reactions from matthew dowd our political analyst. what a momentous few days. >> significant and meaningful. throwback to a lot of the changes that happened in the '60s. the fact that one flag came down and another flag went up, which was the rainbow flag. i think it's important to keep in mind, it's a moment and there are still unbelievable amount of divisions as we can hear from mike huckabee's interview that exists in america. the raises of one flag and the lowering of another flag hasn't quieted that. >> do you agree with that, ken blackwell? >> i think it was a traumatic week. the change was almost transformational.
overnight, grandmothers and aunts and uncles, mothers and dads who believed in the bible and who believe in their christian teachings are going to be deemed bigots, going to be deemed as standing in the way of recognition of others' humanity, i think that's sad. we have changed -- we have amended our constitution 27 times in a very deliberate process. i think that we in fact should have let that process work out and the court should not have legislated from the bench. >> cokie. >> i thought the images of the week were just striking. sitting in front of the president when he made that extraordinary eulogy, the the governor of the state of south carolina, the african-american senator from the state of south carolina, both republicans by the way, and the other image that really struck me of a couple getting married in hattiesburg, mississippi, a female preacher
and an african-american woman and a white woman kissing each other on the steps of the church. those are images that americans haven't seen before. shows that the country is a very, very different country. >> lot of changes to absorb. >> watershed moment. it was a watershed moment in our history and i think in our journey toward equal justice under the law. george, many days i have worked walked past the supreme court, looked at those words and turned my head. >> donna brazile, thanks very much. up next here, after those horrific terror attacks friday, new terror warnings here at home. and bernie sanders rising fast in the race against hillary clinton, can he sustain the surge? he's live from new hampshire this morning. >> announcer: "this week" with george stephanopoulos brought to you by cisco. e biggest threat your business will
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in this week's "closer look," those three horrific terror attacks on three continents. all hitting friday, just hours apart. this morning, the u.s. threat level at the highest in years, and with officials tense about an independence day strike on the homeland abc's pierre thomas takes us inside the aggressive push to catch extremists. >> reporter: the first strike in france. at an american-owned chemical plant, setting off an explosion, his boss beheaded. two hours later, in kuwait, a
shiite mosque attacked. by a suicide bomber. 27 killed. hundreds wounded. then in tunisia, a bloody massacre, a gunman mowing down tourists at a beach resort, 39 dead. bob woodruff is on the scene. >> the witnesses now tell us, the killer came with his rifle, he was so nervous, they said, he seem to be shaking. then he opened fire. then he moved on to the pool, killed many, many more. >> reporter: isis has claimed responsibility for the attacks in kuwait and tunisia, and here at home, u.s. officials deeply concerned about the potential for an isis-inspired attack as we approach the fourth of july celebrations. in the last 48 hours, a bulletin sent out to 18,000 law enforcement agencies urging vigilance. the reason, an unprecedented social media campaign by isis targeting thousands here at home. >> isil has spent about a year
trying to reach troubled minds in the united states through social media, to recute them to come to their so-called caliphate. >> reporter: in response the fbi is conducting a broad campaign targeting suspected radicals. seven arrests in the last two weeks alone. the fbi says he was studying how to build a pressure cooker bomb like those used in the boston marathon attack. >> i think the threat is the most significant we faced since the september 11th attacks. >> reporter: the terror threat has evolved, made clear in garland, texas, assault, when two men drove hundreds of miles to allegedly commit mass murderer against a cartoon contest. the suspects willing to die for their cause after being recruited primarily if not solely online. >> and pierre joins us now along with congressman peter king.
pierre, you talked about garland being a moment. those two got through. we're also seeing more arrests, do they believe there are more lone wolves or getting more aggressive? >> a combination of both. they're not waiting for cases to fully mature. if they can build a case they're going to bring you in right now. the other thing is, this social media campaign by isis is a game-changer, i have never seen law enforcement as focused on one thing as they are now, isis is using that social media campaign to every day, this moment, send out messages to encourage people to do something wherever they are. >> every day, all around the world. congressman, in this is a particularly tense moment. we have seen isis say, we want to see attacks during the month of ramadan, attacks on independence day, what are you hearing from your intelligence sources?
>> there is great concern. more concern now than any time since 9/11. isis really they have a multilevel sense of operation. also, there can be some coordination amongst these so-called lone wolves out there. you saw jeh johnson -- >> homeland security secretary. >> put out a statement talking about the fourth of july. they don't put those statements that far in advance unless there's a reason for concern. >> and what is the fact that we could see three, somewhat coordinated attacks on friday, hours apart even if people weren't talking. what does that say about the reach of isis? >> isis, they can reach the disaffected, they can reach the disenchanted. police officers attacked with hatchets. you had the attacks in garland, texas.
you had attacks in new york the arrests higher in new york this is not just something that happened by coincidence. >> pierre, a study by the new american foundation showed that since 9/11, nearly as twice have been killed by -- they also add a study from duke university a study, that asked sheriff and police departments nationwide to rank the three biggest threats from violent extremists. 74% listed anti-government violence. 39% al qaeda-inspired violence. >> i think they're very concerned about the isis threat, because of the violent, horrific nature of what could happen in the united states that would get expoen shl national coverage, think of a lone wolf attacking a mall and you could have a situation similar to what you saw in france a few months ago. >> i totally disregard what the
"the new york times" said, i can't believe any real law enforcement looking at the potential threats out there. the boston marathon bombing, four killed, almost 300 people injured. the fact that eric holder, kept him awake at night was the lone wolf islamic terrorist would carry out an attack. listen every murder is horrible. there's no comparison between these white sueprea eshgssuepremacists and this. if the attacks were not stopped, thousands and thousands of deaths. several years ago, the attempted subway attacks here in new york would have killed thousands of people if that wasn't intercepted. everything should be stopped. to compare these white supremacists with these terrorists is the "the new york times" at its worst. the sunday spotlight and the man closing fast on hillary is up next, bernie sanders, live, from new hampshire. up next bernie sanders, live, from new hampshire. th type 2 diabetes and your a1c is not at goal with certain diabetes pills or daily insulin
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we looked at the kean seventh nell. you're up with the crowd in keene, new hampshire, let me tell you a secret, we're going to win new hampshire, care to repeat that prediction now? >> we are going to win new hampshire, we're going to win iowa, and i think we're going to win the democratic nomination and i think we're going to win the presidency, i'll tell you why, the american people are sick and tired of seeing the disappearance of the great middle class of this country, they're sick and tired of working longer hours for low wages, while at the same time, 99% of all new income generated is going to the top 1% and the top 0.1% now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 90%. geoge, we have seen a massive shift of wealth and income from ordinary americans to the very richest people in this country and the american people are saying, enough is enough, we need to create an economy that works for all of us and not just
for a handful of billionaires. >> you're drawing fire as well, particularly on your record in guns. martin o'malley put out a video this week. >> bernie sanders voted against the brady bill. >> and bernie sanders voted to give gun manufacturers protection from the victims. >> bernie sanders is no progressive when it comes to guns. >> i saw you smiling when it was being played, what is your response? >> well, i think the people of vermont know differently, they know every single race that i have run in with the exception of one, the nra and the gun lobbies and the people who are most interested in guns supported my opponent. i have a lifetime voting record with the nra of somewhere between d and f, coming from a state that has virtually no gun control at all, i cast what i think was a pretty brave vote banning assault weapons, doing away the gun show loophole and
fighting for instant background checks so that we make sure that guns do not fall in the hands of those people who should not have it. a strong record. but let me tell you this, george, in terms of gun control, if we're going to have any success, what we need to do is bridge this cultural divide between rural america and urban america and come up with some commonsense legislation, which includes everything that i just voted for and maybe more, and we can't have people demagogueing against folks because they go out hunt. rural america has to understand that guns in vermont is not the same thing in guns in chicago where they're used to kill kids or shoot at police officers. so, i think we need a national dialogue and, frankly, coming from a state that has virtually no gun control but having voted time and time again for strong gun control, i think i'm in a
position to make that happen. >> you also come from a state that's 95% white as well. a poll out this week showed how this might be affecting you and your potential race right now, support among nonwhites, it said clinton has 91%, bernie sanders just 3%. how do close that gap? >> well, i tell you how you do that, george, as somebody who's been involved in the civil rights movement for my entire adult life, i was arrested as a student protesting segregation of schools in chicago, fought against segregated housing in chicago. marched with martin luther king in the great march on washington, i have a long history in fighting for civil rights. i understand that many people in the african-american community may not understand that, but i think the issues that we are
dealing with, combating 51% african-american youth unemployment, talking about the need that public colleges and universities should be tuition-free, raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour, creating millions of jobs by rebuilding our infrastructure. these are issues should apply to every american. but to be honest with you, given the disparity that we're seeing in income and wealth in this country, it applies even more to the african-american community. and to the hispanic community. what we're going to do is make a major outreach program to those communities. let people know my background and my record. >> how about the issue of health care coming out of the supreme court case, saving obamacare for the second time. the supreme court led by chief justice john roberts. you consistently called for a single-payer system, medicare for everyone, now, if you were president, would you continue to fight for that and is that responsible -- would it be more effective use of your time and
energy and presidential resources to strengthen the obamacare that's already in place? >> well, let me just say this, i haven't been a great fan of the supreme court, their decision on citizens united, opening up the opportunity for billionaires to buy elections will go down as history as one of the worst decisions ever made. but i applaud them for the two decisions they made this week on the affordable care act and on gay marriage. in terms of the affordable care act, i'm on the committee that helped write that bill. this was really a no-brainer, no one thought we should look at the exchanges any differently than state exchanges. despite the gains of the affordable care act, we still have 35 million americans without any health insurance and many more who are underinsured. meanwhile, we end up spending almost twice as much per capita on health care as do the people of any other country. we need to join the industrialized world.
we are the only major country on earth that doesn't guarantee health care to all people as a right. so, i do believe that we have to move toward a medicare for all, single-payer system, i don't think it's going to happen tomorrow. >> finally, you're going to be the next president of the united states, if that's true, you'll be the oldest president ever elected, 75 years old on election day, i believe, what do you say to people who might be concerned about your age? >> well, why don't you follow me around this weekend in new hampshire, where we're doing seven separate events and understand that, thank god, i'm blessed with very good health, i don't think i have taken a day off because of sickness in several years. so, i believe, as a kid, a long-distance runner, i'm blessed with endurance and i'm blessed with health, and we're going to do everything we can to win this campaign be good a president i
possibly can be. >> senator sanders, thanks very much for joining us this morning. >> thank you. up next, the roundtable is back with more debate on a historic week, what does it mean for the white house race? and why does donald trump have everyone on edge? catch "this week" online, on facebook and on twitter. and on twitter. judge kennedy, in recent
weeks, referred to as a true conservative, one who believes our constitutional system is one of the enumerated powers, we the people who have granted certain rights to the government hot the other way around. restricts a state's exercise of that power it remains with the states or the people. president reagan nominating anthony kennedy back in 1987. the author of that mowmentous decision this week. we're back with the roundtable again right now, and donna, let me begin with you, we heard ken blackwell in the last roundtable how he thought the supreme court short-circuited that issue. >> well, george, the supreme court may have short circuited but it was the right decision. you saw state after state over the last two years began to grant marriage equality, this is a moment, as i mentioned before, a watershed moment, and no question that the supreme court, justice kennedy and perhaps others, finally applied the law
as it should have stood for the entire time. i'm glad that we have moved past this issue and now we have to fight other battles. >> also, george, though, that's >> also, george, though, that's the role of the supreme court, is to at times take over from the elective process and say, we have something beyond that, which is the constitution of the united states. if we had depended on majority rule, we wouldn't have gotten to the civil rights place where we are today, it required the courts saying that there are certain rights regardless of what the majority of the voters think and that's what happened -- >> justice roberts said it wasn't in the constitution. >> it wasn't in the constitution, no one has a right to redefine marriage a definition that has been in existence for over 2500 years. the reality is this, the court did cut short the democratic process and the reason that
people are getting in a big uproar is because, if you actually want change that's accepted by the folks, then, in fact, use that process. you don't create a right that's not the constitution. >> another division created here today, matthew dowd, between the republican candidates for president, pretty striking, the candidates like jeb bush, marco rubio, john kasich, saying, we don't like the decision but it's the law of the land right now. we just saw mike huckabee ted cruz and others, calling for resistance a constitutional amendment. >> folks saying that the supreme court should abolished -- this is a system of government where people vote. we have a supreme court. the supreme court gets to decide what's in the constitution. what i think what is amazing about this moment is, first, a week ago, this liberal said, this is a conservative court that makes political decisions.
today, the conservatives say this is a liberal court that makes political decisions. in the end, the interesting thing about this is, the country led on this issue. nearly two-thirds of the country, 60% of the country supports gay marriage. twice as many people support gay marriage when the court decided interracial marriage banning interracial marriage was wrong. >> when you look at hillary clinton, this is my fault i have with hillary clinton and barack obama and bill clinton, they're criticizing now the people of faith who say i object to this, when basically -- their evolution on this issue was of recent and was of a political vintage. >> i have to say, though kennedy's final statement in his decision, is something that every married couple should read and everybody should come
template. regardless of their sexuality, forming a marriage union, two people become something greater than once they were. >> look, at the end of -- >> you don't think that people become better in marriage? >> he actually has a conservative view of marriage. >> right. >> exactly. >> should be celebrating today is teddy kennedy, because he in fact blocked an originalist from being on the supreme court, robert bork, and at the end of the day, it's a clash of how you view the constitution, do you see it as being malleable and the theologian in chief can change. that's what i'm objecting to, and i think a lot of folks are objecting to is that, the people get cut out of this process. >> donna? >> people have been cut of the process because the constitution denied them basic human rights. basic living rights. it's been a living document.
>> it's been a process. 27 times there's been a process. >> it was a process. >> ken blackwell says that justice kennedy is a theologian in chief. one of the things that we saw, john roberts in the health care case was true, to his hearings, he was going to be basically umpire in chief, chief justice. >> justice roberts, he's actually maintained his position which was of judicial restraint. his belief that there was no part of the constitution that said that you can't ban gay marriage, so he did it there and he actually, he gave deference to the legislative process in the obamacare decision. he basically said there was a screw-up on some words and the process, this is basically what they said, again, people don't want an objective justice anymore, they want a partisan justice, they want a justice that's going to go along with their position, based on whether or not it's in constitution.
>> i think he also cares deeply about the court and about the reputation of the court. the fact is, even though gay marriage has gotten more people upset and delighted depending on the point of view, health care would have affected millions of people in their day-to-day lives, and the practicality of that would -- the impracticality of that would have reflected badly on the court. >> this is going to make a difference in so many lives. donna, on some of the politics here, i wonder, democrats celebrating this week. president obama celebrating what could have been his best week with a lot of help from republicans. i wonder if the supreme court has actually done the eventual republican nominee for president a favor -- >> i think for jeb bush and for perhaps marco rubio who understand, if they win the nomination, they have to face a much larger electorate, perhaps
it did, but i think on the republican side, they're going to relitigate this, they're going to work themselves up in a frenzy they're going to look backward and inward and i think it's going to destroy and hurt the nomination. >> relitigate? >> i don't think so. at the end of the day, the primary process is about listening to the people and showing them that you can be a standard bearer for them. this supreme court decision is yet to be played out in local communities. curriculums of public school systems will be changed to get alignment with that. that's going to force some real decisions to be made by parents. look, this is bakers, photographers, folks who hold deeply religious convictions are going to be seeing their religious liberty at risk, we have -- >> why? why? >> it's protected in the constitution. it's compatible with civil
rights for all. >> folks are litigating right now, a photographer who says i don't want to take photos at a gay wedding -- >> what does it mean going forward for the nominee? >> i think, on one aspect of this, it could help the this, it could help the eventual republican nominee only if they're able to basically bridge the divide that exists between people that see america as a pluralistic system and then people of faith and i think part of the problem that we have had here today, the people of faith don't feel respected in where they sit and where they stand. and the people on the pluralistic side don't feel a sense of compassion until we figure out -- >> how do you bridge that? >> part of a candidate to emerge -- i actually don't see one on the democratic side or on the republican side. >> actually, this is great opportunity for hillary clinton. >> absolutely.
>> this is the place, because she's a person of faith and she really could be the person to articulate exactly what you're saying. the truth is that, what you're going to see is in the debates, the republican debates, which are going to be great fun for us, is going to be everybody trying to outdo -- >> cokie, wait a second. >> george -- >> wait a second. i agree with hillary can do that. but her statements in the last 72 hours were nothing close to that. she should have stood up, george, and said listen, i have evolved recently on this issue. and we should the time and the space that i needed to evolve on this issue we should give to other people good-intentioned people of faith, who haven't yet evolved. >> but tell me, we have a right to believe, we don't have just a right to worship, we have a right to carry our beliefs in our
day-to-day activities in the public square, if you believe in natural marriage as a union between a man and a woman and you live that out, that's how you want your children taught in the public school system, what happens to you? >> donna, before we go, i want to reflect on the events coming out of south carolina as well, seeing the flags come down, capped by that eulogy by president obama on friday. >> what a moment, george. today we bury another soul. you know, over the last couple of weeks, the president i think was at real pain to try to figure out how to eulogize someone he knew, but his remarks were basically about grace, not just about the moment but feeling the pain and anguish of that community and knowing that he could bring healing through his own words. i never thought that i would see a president, let alone this one, i knew many to know the gospel
but to actually sing a song that has so much meaning. >> the greatest power we saw over the course of the last weekend in my view was not the president was the people in that room that basically faced the people that killed their relatives and said, i forgive you, i'm going to show you love instead of hate, that to me was the most powerful message. >> exactly, i was in south carolina for all of this and many white people came up to me and said, we're in pain, we're in terrible pain. but i was also because i was with grandchildren at a water park and there were the south carolina public school buses, and getting out of them were campers, totally integrated camps, totally integrated camp counselors, taking care of these kids at a water park in south carolina. that's the real change. >> could this be a moment of racial healing? >> i think so.
the victims show what true christian ethics and love is about. and i'm going to tell you, not all of us can get there, not all of us are there. but all of us need to get there and that's the only way we'll be able to create a beloved community that dr. king talked about. >> what a example they set. thank you all very much. when we come back -- one artist's remarkable mission in
in our "sunday spotlight," an artist promoting peace and understanding by thinking inside the box, shared studios are transforming ordinary shipping containers into extraordinary instruments of global communication. a's john donvan checked it out. >> reporter: in a square in the middle of washington, d.c., there is box, what's in that box? the world -- well, not really. but yes, really, in a way, because this guy i'm talking to. he's in afghanistan, 7,000 miles from washington where there is another box just like mine and he's in it, which puts us somewhere where it feels remarkably as if we're in the same room talking, which is what we did. i saw him. he saw me. he's a college professor. you're in herat? >> yes.
>> reporter: i was there back in 1988. now, these boxes actually gold-painted shipping containers are multiplying. there's one in iran's capital, in havana, cuba. all of this organized, designed really by an american artist who calls them portals. >> you don't know if you're going to go in there and speak to an 18-year-old who just works down the block. >> reporter: because that what happens. original people, gets to step inside the portal, and talk to a stranger from far away. >> you're in washington, d.c., right now? >> we have people coming in who haven't talked to the opposite gender. they do it here. it's okay. >> reporter: everyone we talked to who did this, this trio of friends also talking to iran and angelina feldman made a friend. >> we had a lot of common. >> reporter: they found the experience meaningful or moving
or both. >> there's no way you're going to learn something new. >> talking to him was talking to my cousin. >> reporter: people have danced together and sung together. politics tends not to come up, not surprising given some of the repressive regimes. what comes up a lot is -- >> marriage and dating. america's dating life is a real fascination. >> the connection with plans to get the portal to new haven. and new york. >> they're taking 20 minutes in a space to do nothing but admire, appreciate, dislike another human being as a piece of art. >> reporter: in this space -- >> it was a pleasure. >> reporter: that is no place. how do we shake hands here? so it's any place. take care. >> bye.
>> reporter: and maybe, every place, for "this week," john donvan, abc news, washington. >> it all comes down to dating. that's all for us today. thank you for sharing part of your sunday with us. check out "world news tonight." and i'll see you tomorrow on "gma." check out "world news tonight." and i'll see you tomorrow on "g "gma."
>> in the news, spacex's rocket suffers a catastrophic explosion just moments after blast off. and finishing touches are being made ahead of the san francisco pride parade today. what you need to know before soaking in today's celebration. >> good morning to you. from our roof camera youçqee the cloud cover. kind of muggy, as well, this morning. low 60s downtown. we will talk about the clearing trend and the warming trend coming up next on the abc7