tv This Week With George Stephanopoulos ABC December 4, 2016 8:00am-9:01am PST
last we heard is at 6:00 last night this news conference is expected to start at any moment. it is at 31st and international boulevard in oakland right outside the scene of that warehouse fire. >> sky 7 got a revealing shot from above showing the patch work of what enframing and debris rescuers are forced to work through. this is a slow process. a closer shot shows some firefighters inside that framing. a lot of that debris inside has melted and firefighters said they would actually have to cut bodies from the wreckage before those people can even be identified. we spoke to a woman inside who says what the ghost ship actually looked like before the fire broke out. so here is what she saw. >> it looked pretty junkie and lots of boxy -- like weird boxes with curtains and people lived in there, like spaces, i guess,
art space. and there's a staircase in the middle just made out of no structure whatsoever. it's just piled different stuff up to reach to the top floor. >> alameda county officials have called the warehouse kind of like a maze inside. there's a map of where everything kind of was. the bay area news posted this. the floor plan here. you can see the first floor is mostly an open area and then in the corner, what they're calling a makeshift kitchen and that's near the main entrance. when you get to the second floor, and that's where a lot of the bodies have been recovered were, it looks like there were four rooms. from all the photos we've seen, the entire warehouse is full of a lot of wooden items, a lot of pieces of art, so you can imagine what it would be like to try to get out of there when there is a hot fire and there are people running in all directions. officials tell us there was an exit on the second floor but at some point after the fire broke out the exit got blocked. >> and there are pictures from
google earth showing how much debris had grown in the building's side yard over the years. the first picture was back in june 2013. the next several were taken over a two and a half year period. by 2015 what was once an empty yard was packed full of cars and debris. the gray area foundation for the arts has set up a you caring fund to support those affected by the fire. it's seen an incredible show of support with donations now topping $106,000. the original goal was $10,000 but donors quickly surpassed that yesterday morning in about an hour. >> okay. we're taking a live look again at the podium where we expect this news conference to start. they originally said it was going to start at 8:00 a.m. >> and we see the one woman there who is the spokesperson for mayor libby shaft. not sure if that means the mayor herself will not be there, but
they are getting ready to let us know what has gone on as these crews have worked around the clock since this fire broke out trying to first put out the flames, of course, and then now trying to recover the bodies. >> if you were watching us earlier, you saw our reporter amy hollyfield. she was reporting this morning after talking to some of the investigators there that the official number that we have is ten people have been recovered and now taken out of the building. as they were making some progress last night clearing all of that debris, they were able to see more bodies inside the building. those bodies as far as we know have not been taken out of the building about it has been many hours since we've had an official news conference so we'll see if they do have some new information in just a few minutes. >> it seems like they're not quite ready now to tell us what they have learned overnight. we talked to one witness who said that he saw young people running from the building. he says that they were in a daze as they looked for their
friends. >> they said they were in that party. it was an online party at the underground and there was 60 people or more in there. they were the last two that they know of that got out and they were worried about their friends that might be in there. they had come from somewhere. they're not from here. they had never been to that building before. they said that the bar had started and there was smoke everywhere and it was pitch back. the only reason they got out, they heard voices and followed the voices to get out. he just said there was a lot of people behind him and he didn't see anybody come out of the building after he left. >> he said that it was chaotic and the two were lucky to get out. >> if you're just joining us, it is 8:04. usually you'd be watching "this week with george stephanopolous." we'll return to that as soon as the news conference starts in oakland. so we have heard this morning from people who say that they lived inside this building of
artists. however, the planning department never issued any live-in permits. >> we know that the last designated use of the property was as a warehouse. we had received recent complaints about blight and unpermitted construction at the property. we had opened an investigation and that investigation is ongoing. >> and we are likely to hear from this gentleman with the building inspection department again today. it looks like there's johna watson from oakland police department and it seems to be about to get under way. the warehouse began to catch fire as a party of electronic music was taking place inside. >> we know that there are still
a number of people who are considered missing at this point. the information and one of the things we'll be hoping to find out is if they have a better handle on how many people that totals to. >> i'm going to do a sound check just to ensure everyone can hear us. >> again, they're just setting up to make sure all the cameras are ready. but that's one of the things that has been frustrating for families and friends is they don't know how many people are still missing and so they are waiting to hear if there's an updated number because last night they told us people who they thought were missing and were part of that group turned out to be okay. so that was certainly if there is good news to report, and there's very little good news out of this, but if there is some silver lining that is it, that the higher number of people. the. >> we understand this has been a very long, we're into our second day so we appreciate your patience. my name is officer johna watson. i'm one of the public information officers for the
oakland police department. we'd like to update you this morning regarding this tragic fire. currently we have with us sergeant kelly from the alameda county sheriff's office as well as battalion fire chief melinda drayton. i'm going to right now turn it over to fire chief battalion to discuss with you some of the logistics that have occurred during last night. chief. >> good morning, everybody. my name is melinda drayton. battalion chief for oakland fire. i took over from our deputy chief last night at approximately 9:00 to start our night ops operational period, which lasted 12 hours ending at 9:00 this morning. our goal was to work
collaboratively with public works to breach the b side, would be the left side of the warehouse building, the fire building, in order to gain access for our firefighters and alameda county sheriffs to be able to remove debris systematically from the building to the vacant lot next to the building. literally bucket by bucket in a methodical, thoughtful, mindful, and compassionate way. we had firefighters with basically coveralls and buckets and shovels taking bits of debris out into the vacant lot to then be loaded into dump trucks and removed to an off-site location. in order to do this, we had to gain access by breaching the wall with heavy rescue equipment, specialized tools
that turned out to be a very successful operation. we have gone from one end to the other end of the building encompassing approximately 20% of the building. searching for victims and doing debris removal. at this point we have approximately 80% left to search. so within 12 hours of our operational briefing, we made it through one-fifth of the building. this will be a long and arduous process, but we want to make sure that we're respecting the victims, their families, and our firefighters' safety to work slowly and carefully through the building. public works brought in an unbelievable amount of equipment that worked in concert with the firefighters in a very teamwork approach to make sure that everything was removed that needed to be removed out of the
building, that we took care of everything that may cause any hazards to our firefighters, and i can tell you when i was in there throughout the evening, the somber approach that our firefighters and alameda county sheriff's department members took to this search. it was quiet, it was heart-breaking. to get through -- what we were able to accomplish in 12 hours was a phenomenal feat. we have a lot more to go. we're going to be here for a few more days just getting through the building, if you do the math, and we'll be taking the same approach. >> thank you, battalion chief drayton. thank you. >> good morning. sergeant ray kelly with the
alameda county sheriff's office. i'll be talking about our coron coroner's bureau operations, our work at the family assistance center and kind of where we are and what we've gone through last night. i think as the chief described, you can feel that emotion in her voice. we all feel that. when i came back this morning and i saw our people, our firefighters, our first responders, our deputy sheriffs in there, they're tired, they're exhausted. this is very emotional. i want to update people on where we are as far as how many victims we have, how many more we possibly anticipate and where we're headed right now. we have located thus far with about 20% of the building searched, we've located 24 deceased victims of this fire. we've only been able to do three official notifications to families, so this is going very slow for us because we have to
go back to our coroner's bureau and try to identify these people. this is very hard work and it's very slow and it's definitely taken a toll on the first responders here. we're working in a 12 on, 12 off capacity. and so we have people around the clock and we will be here for days and days to come. i have a few requests that i ask of the public and of the press. if people would no longer call the number that we originally had put out, we have been completely overwhelmed by phone calls. so we're asking at this point that you not call that number unless you have a legitimate concern that someone you know is missing. we have contacted every family member, we have sat down with them, we have cried with them,
we have spent hours and hours with them. we couldn't do this without the assistance of the red cross, the city workers, the chaplains, the amount of people that have come forth to help. i mean the offers of assistance have just been amazing. so we couldn't do it without all those people. as we move forward later on today, we will begin to release names of the victims. that's going to be very hard. we want to do that in a respectful manner. we want to make sure that the families are prepared for the names of their loved ones to be public. and so in the coming hours, we will be releasing victims' names. i'm going to refer it back to officer watson. >> thank you, sergeant kelly. last night oakland police officers did what we call an areawide search. what they did was they went through and they looked at all
of the parked vehicles, gathered license plate numbers for any of the victims that may have driven to this location and we're trying to match vehicles with registered owners, with cars that have been driven. so we're working this scene from many different angles, many different resources, many different agencies involved. i will certainly open it up for questions. we're going to be brief on the questions. let me explain to you for the reason why. we'd like our city officials, suches as the mayor, to be ablo have her opportunity with the media as well as provide additional information as the sergeant and battalion chief indicated, we still have and are recovering more additional victims and as the information is made known to us, we want to share it with you. so at this time i will say that
we will have a media availability at 11:00. a media availability at 11:00. we'll certainly send out an advisory. i'll ask again if you have not provided us with your contact information, again, we have a lot of media that is from out of town, please, i'll be available, my partner, officer marco marquez, will be available and we'll collect that information. yes, sir. >> i have a question for sergeant kelly. you say the number is 24. can you give us any idea, were they all found together? there were reports that some of the bodies may have been huddled up. secondly, you have 80% still to go. does that mean unfortunately this number of 24 is likely to rise as well? >> we anticipate that the number of victims will rise and it will increase. in regards to how we're finding the vick victims, i think the battalion chief would be best able to answer that question as she's
been on the scene more than i have. >> in terms of last night's operational period, we found one victim within feet of the breached wall. by the time we had made our 15-foot swath across the building down the center line to give us access to all four quadrants, we found three victims in the very far end, which would be the east side of the building. when we circled back to the center of the building, we had some large timber rafters that were coming down through the center from the mezzanine and the roof that had been part of our collapse zone. extremely dangerous working environment for our firefighters at that point, so we came in and removed all those rafters so that we didn't have that precarious situation to look under. within the center of the building we almost immediately found four victims and within
ten feet of those four victims, we found six more. so we can speak to the middle of the building, ten victims. [ inaudible question ] we believe that there were two staircases in the building and it was not in the affected area of the staircase. [ inaudible question ] this is the most deadly fire in oakland fire's history that i'm aware of. i've been in for 19 years. i would consider myself kind of a veteran. we have members from our latest recruit class that have two months on the job and we've had members over the course of the night that have 30 years on the job. every one of them has been emotionally impacted by this. it is tragic to watch so many
people perish from a fire fatality in front of your eyes and have to be stoic in your job, be professional in your actions and make sure that we're honoring the victims and their families to bring them safely out of the building. >> go ahead, sir. >> do you have any idea what the cause of the fire was? >> no. it's still under investigation. we don't believe that we have even gotten close to the point of origin of the fire. >> for sergeant kelly. is there still a number of significant of -- [ inaudible ] number two, have you been in contact with the building owner? >> in regards to the amount of people that are still missing, yes, it's a significant number. we've given you a number of 24. that number will go up. but we've only searched about 20% of this building so there is
a lot of work to be done. in regards to the second part of the question, i'll let officer watson answer that. >> evan, we understand there are a lot of questions surrounding the building, permitting. we'll certainly have those conversations a little bit later. right now we are very much focused on the 24 victims and the 24 families that are grieving right now. the 24 families that have lost their loved one. so we're going to at this time just leave you with 11:00 we'll have another media availability but right now this will conclude our press update. we're done. >> we'll get back to you. >> so we can see that this news conference is over. wow, they say there are a staggering number of victims that they have found so far.
24 dead. >> which is staggering. >> and they have only searched 20% of the building. so they know, we know this number is certainly going to rise. they say they are not even close to figuring out the origin of the fire. that is not their focus at this time. it is on these victims, their families and friends. you heard the battalion chief saying that they were doing a somber and respectful job going bucket by bucket to remove debris. >> they're being very careful. you saw that there was a lot of emotion in the battalion chief's words. she said this has been very difficult for her people as well just to stay professional because they are having to comfort these families and each other as they're going through this process. she said that it was so quiet last night as these recovery workers in there were doing their work, which has to be pain-staking and also has to be painful. >> yes, a very difficult task ahead.
they are going to come back at 11:00 to have another briefing to let us know what's going on. there we saw johna watson from the oakland police department. i noticed behind her, some councilmembers, noel guyo and larry reed listening in to find out about this horrible fire. it's been 12 hours that they have been searching that building. >> and they continue to do it. this is a 24-hour operation. one of the questions that was asked is how many people are still missing. at this point we do not have a number, so we don't know. as carolyn said, they have only been able to search 20% of the building, so we don't know how many people may still be in there. we know there are family members that are still waiting to hear because they have only contacted three families at this point. >> three families, yes. it is going to be a pain-staking and painful time here for oakland and for all of the bay area. our hearts go out to them. >> absolutely. >> we will be back with more abc 7 mornings at 9:00, but we're going to go now to george
stephanopolous and "this week" in progress. t he made in the course -- he made in >> whether it's true or not. >> -- reflective of that. he's going to say what he believes to be true and i know that he's always going to speak in that way as president. >> general petraeus is coming up and as you've said, your transition team said he's being considered for secretary of state. the fbi director chose not to prosecute secretary clinton and told congress what general petraeus did was actually worse with classified information than what secretary clinton did. let's take a look. >> clearly intentional conduct. knew what he was doing was a violation of the law, huge amounts of information that even if you couldn't prove he knew it it raises the inference that he did it, an effort to obstruct justice. >> how do you respond to that? >> well, first i respond by saying that general david petraeus is an american hero. i first met him down range in iraq when he was in command of the 101st airborne and i saw the way that he marshaled the resources and plan to develop the surge and achieved an
american success at the end of the last administration in iraq. he's a man of enormous talents, but, look, he made mistakes. and he paid the consequences of those mistakes. >> it would be difficult for any other person in the state department to get a security clearance after this, so why isn't this disqualifying for secretary of state? >> i think the person who will make the decision about our next secretary of state is the president-elect, and he'll factor the totality of general petraeus' career in making that decision, but i can assure you that the process of assembling this cabinet has truly been inspiring. what i think the american people are seeing is not only a record pace, this is the fastest assembly of a cabinet in the last 40 years, even a sitting vice president, george herbert walker bush, didn't assemble a cabinet as quickly as donald trump is, and whether it be general petraeus or mitt romney or rudy giuliani or senator bob corker or john bolton or others who may be added to the list, what people are seeing is an
extraordinary capacity of an executive to bring the broadest range of people around him, to be in these meetings, george, to see the way he asked the incisive questions and he gets straight to the point, straight to the issue, i'm confident as he's done so far that our president-elect is going to continue to assemble a cabinet, people that will be the best for that position, and it'll be a team that will make america strong and prosperous against. >> are you exhilarated to be in the middle of it? >> it's incredibly humbling and incredibly exciting for my little family to be a part of a history that i truly do believe is going to make america great again. >> mr. vice president-elect, thanks for coming in this morning. >> thank you, george. standing by live to respond general david petraeus. we're back in just two minutes. >> announcer: "this week with george stephanopoulos" brought to you by mcdonald's. david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪
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night liquid gels fights your worst cold symptoms. plus, unstuffs your nose. oh, what a relief it is. how did the meeting go, sir? >> the meeting went very well. i was with him for about an hour. he basically walked us around the world, showed a great grasp of a variety of the challenges that are out there and some of the opportunities as well. so a very good conversation and we'll see where it goes from here. >> there is general david petraeus after meeting with president-elect trump this week in new york. they toured the world. general petraeus comes to us from germany this morning. thank you for joining us, general petraeus, and you heard vice president-elect mike pence speaking about your service to this country and calling you an american hero. talked about your possibility of getting confirmed, as well. it appears that this is not disqualifying that your security clearance problems are not disqualifying to president-elect
trump right now, but cnn is reporting that several republican senators are concerned about this confirmation battle. one said it is causing a high level of angst. what can you say to reassure them? >> first of all, good to be with you, george. what i would say to them is what i acknowledged for a number of years, five years ago i made a serious mistake. i acknowledged it and apologized for it and paid a very heavy price for it, and i've learned from it. and, again, they'll have to factor that in and also obviously 38 1/2 years of otherwise fairly in some cases unique service to our country in uniform and then at the cia and then some four years or so in the business community during which i've continued to travel the world, nearly 40 countries in that time, as well. >> you'll be pressed on whether you made false statements to the fbi. director comey said you did, and you acknowledged that in your plea agreement, yet your attorney told "the washington post" this week that you simply
forgot about the journal. so are you challenging the director's conclusion there? >> well, no, look, i mean obviously i made a false statement. at the time i didn't think it was false and, frankly, i think they might have pursued that more. i'd also like to add something he left out, which is that the fbi in the agreement acknowledged that nothing that was in my journals that i shared certainly improperly ended up in the biography or made it out to the public. i think that's a fairly significant point. in fact, the book is read by someone, a colonel at the time with me the whole year that i was in afghanistan and is now a brigadier general retired, but, again, look, i made a mistake. i have again acknowledged it, folks will have to factor that in and determine whether that is indeed disqualifying or not. >> what was your impression of president-elect trump?
you worked with several presidents, how does he stack up? >> well, i think he's actually quite pragmatic. in our conversation what i enjoyed most frankly was the discussion of issues or, say, campaign rhetoric, if you will, and then placing that in a strategic context. as an example he's not anti-trade. he's against -- he's anti-unfair trade. the wall, well, the wall would be an element in a comprehensive effort to shore up our security on the southern border which, by the way, as we discussed, would include more help to mexico for the problems that it has in the broader rule of law area and, indeed, perhaps with its southern border which is so challenged, as well. but, again, we talked about all of those kinds of issues. these are issues in which i have concern, needless to say, and it was good to discuss the strategic context in which each of those would be placed. >> if you were chosen as secretary of state, you'd have the job of convincing mexico to pay for that wall.
how would you do it? >> well, i'm not sure what the scheme would be there for that. again, the issue with mexico would be to determine together how we could improve the status of the security while not impeding the flow of commerce back and forth that is so important to both of our countries. indeed, it's notable that the president-elect has already gained agreement from president pena and i believe with the canadian prime minister, as well, to sit down to examine issues in nafta. you may recall that together with bob zelleck former world bank chairman, i co-chaired a council and on north america it identified a number of pages of issues that could be resolved on nafta to make it even more effective for citizens of all three of our nations. >> one of the things you called for in that report was comprehensive immigration reform which it doesn't appear that president-elect trump is interested in and didn't mention anything about mexico paying for
a wall on our border. >> well, i think actually immigration issues will be among those that will be addressed. there will be a number of initiatives, i would think, based on the discussions during the campaign and our meeting about how to ensure that we are very carefully reviewing those who come to our country, particularly those in immigration, also shoring up our defenses just on those who come here on passports for tourism. >> and i want to move on to russia now. president putin of russia is giving an interview overnight where he called president-elect trump a smart man, president-elect trump has praised him as well, but one of the other contenders for secretary of state mitt romney famously called russia under putin our top strategic threat. who is right about that, president-elect trump or mitt romney? >> well, russia certainly is one of the threats, one of the challenges to our security and that of our allies and partners around the world.
but it's also a feature of the landscape. there are issues in which we do have convergences, and i don't think you would rule out at all discussions at some point in time with russia about issues such as the defeat of the islamic state such as the ultimate resolution in syria, obviously about the challenges of the russian supported separatists in southeastern ukraine, again, you can keep going around the world, and, again, strategic discussion i think is very much warranted with russia and, indeed, with china as well as our allies and partners around the world. >> is a meeting of the minds possible with russia on syria? when you were in the government you were advocating arming and supporting the syrian rebels. president-elect trump doesn't seem all that interested in that and russia has been decimating them in recent weeks. >> well, look, let's, first of all, focus on the defeat of da'esh, of the islamic state and
the al qaeda affiliate in syria, in some cases that will be pursued in support of some of the opposition forces that are on the ground in syria. that is the primary vehicle we have on the ground, and it is what is being enabled by our intelligence surveillance reconnaissance and strike assets overhead. the ultimate resolution of syria inevitably is going to involve all the different regional stakeholders, the sunni opposition forces, the syrian kurds and, indeed, the regime forces that are being supported by russia. and ultimately discussions with russia continuing what secretary kerry has been doing will be necessary, although i think you probably have got to take a very cold, hard look at the situation and ask whether the discussion, what is being sought now in diplomacy is actually realistic or not, but that time will come some months from now. >> speaking about what's realistic or not, president-elect trump has vowed to rip up the iran deal when he becomes president.
if you were secretary of state, would you advise him to do that? is it even possible? >> well, first of all, we discussed this, and i think the issue here is to ask what is it that we really want to see happen in this case. and i think that the two overriding objectives are to ensure that iran lives up to its word that it doesn't ever seek to have a nuclear weapon, and you could do that by the white house and congress having a statement of national purpose that iran will never be allowed to enrich uranium to weapons grade and then ensure that u.s. central command, which i was privileged to command, as you'll recall, maintains the capability to carry out the contingency plans that we developed back in that time as well, and then the other big objective is to counter the maligned iranian activity in the region, its activities in syria, in iraq, in yemen and elsewhere working with our regional partners and our ally israel in so doing.
>> but our allies aren't going to go along with ripping up the iran deal, are they? >> well, again, a multilateral deal, have to sit down and really assess. this is a deal, i've publicly said, has some positives elements to it. it's also got some significantly negative elements including that it ends 10 to 15 years depending on the various elements of the agreement with no clear indication of what follows it. so, again, coming back to what our overriding strategic objectives are, then assessing whether this deal should be ripped up or not as part of achieving those objectives is i think going to be the task of the administration when it takes office in january. >> one of the other questions you might face if, indeed, you are chosen by president-elect trump to be secretary of state is how to handle the fact that if you're chosen, you'll have three generals, three former generals in the top national security positions, general flynn as national security adviser, general mattis at the pentagon as well.
what would you say to senators or americans who are concerned about the overreliance of the military in those spots? >> well, you know, a general is not necessarily a general. i'm not trying to sound insufficiently humble here, but i would contend that i carried out about as much statesmanship working as the commander of a theater of war in iraq as the great diplomat ryan crocker with a number of different coalition ambassadors as a regional combatant commander where you're working very closely with elements of the state department and the ambassadors on the ground in each country and then obviously as a cia director and even since in the business world where i've travelled to some 40 countries or so over the course of the last four years for that and for academic endeavors. indeed, it's what i'm doing here in germany at an international security conference right now. >> did president-elect trump ask you if you voted for him? >> i don't vote, so that's an
easy answer, and i also did not support him nor did i oppose him nor did i support or oppose any other candidate. i've truly tried to be apolitical, nonpolitical, george, as i think you know, and so that was a pretty easy question to answer. >> general petraeus, thanks for joining us this morning. >> great to be with you, george. auf wiedersehen. >> we've heard from the vice president-elect and general petraeus and now the "roundtable" is next. president-elect and now the round table is next. can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath? well, there is biotene, specially formulated with moisturizers and lubricants... biotene can provide soothing relief and it helps keep your mouth healthy too. biotene, for people who suffer from a dry mouth.
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do you think i ran a campaign where a white supremacist has a platform? you're going to look me in the face and tell me that? >> it did. kellyanne, it did. >> really. that's how you lost? >> it did. >> do you think you could have just had a decent message for the white working class voters. do you think this woman who has nothing in common with anybody -- >> i'm not saying that's why you won but that's the kind of campaign that was run, yes. >> over 200 -- how about it's hillary clinton. she doesn't connect with people. how about they have nothing in common with her. >> a lot of raw feelings from the campaign teams up at harvard this week. we will talk about all the week's politics with our "roundtable" including matthew dowd, republican strategist, alex castellanos, president obama's former strategist david axelrod and republican strategist sara fagen. i think at least three of four of you have been at those forums before. that's probably one of the most heated ones ever but let's talk more broadly about the transition. matthew dowd, i think one of the things we've seen this week
is president-elect trump will continue to do things his way if this morning is any indication. vice president-elect mike pence going to come out and explain it and you see no apologies here, no apologies for the phone call to taiwan, mexico is going to pay for the wall. 35% tariffs are coming. >> well, i think what we've learned is is that campaign trump who didn't pay attention to any rules and didn't abide by any sense of normalcy in the course of a political campaign at a presidential level is not going to do that as president-elect and is probably not going to do that when he enters office on january 20th. i have to give mike pence some credit. the ability for him to maneuver around all the different tweets, the things that were said in a manner and tone that i think is very good for the administration, i would hope he can sort of use some of that on his boss who would be better off with more of that but one of the things i think fundamentally we're learning is donald trump is going to only talk to the american public through a rally or a tweet because he's not doing it any other kind of press way. >> mike pence playing a powerful role behind the scenes as well.
>> a very stabilizing force, i think engenders a lot of trust in a new administration, great relationships with the republican house and senate, going to be very effective there. but, you know, we are seeing disruption, and it's freaking out the news media and the old establishment in washington, guess what, that's why donald trump was elected to do exactly that. i feel like we're watching elvis presley on "the ed sullivan show." >> so, do you think the taiwan call was deliberate? >> yes, i think actually it was. apparently his aides were over there at some point and, you know, it was almost three months ago to the day that china snubbed the president of the united states, wouldn't give him steps to get off of air force one and so a little pushback here. you know, we're learning a lot. donald trump negotiates from strength. >> well, first of all, i agree with matthew that if mike pence were a football player, he would be a candidate for the heisman trophy right now for the way he
maneuvered around some of those questions, and i think he's very skillful at it and it is helpful to trump and what you took away from it was we're going to do those things that are sort of what the republican agenda has been, we're going to cut taxes, deregulate. we're going to repeal obamacare, though he was very unclear as to what comes next. and he sort of navigates around some of the more -- the tariffs and some of the more irksome questions as well. that's his point of view. but here's the point, alex, on china. he's not elvis presley on "the ed sullivan show." he's president of the united states, and so when he says something, it matters. when he says 35% tariffs on companies that move or when he says to taiwan or to china through his action, we're changing the policy, these can have monumental impacts, and that is what's concerning to me. >> you're right, david. setting aside the process of this phone call and these phone calls, on the substance, let's
not forget in his first national policy speech back in april, donald trump said america is too predictable. so i agree with alex. i don't think this was accidental. i think donald trump knew exactly what he was doing when he took that call from the taiwanese leader. >> i don't think though -- >> let me push back on david a second. >> one thing on the china thing for this. is it may have been intentional, donald trump does some things intentional, some things visceral, but i don't think it was intentional for donald trump to sort of reset the china policy of the united states of america through one phone call. i think he got a phone call. it fed his ego. if the president of taiwan calls him up, i think the troubling thing it's not so much he had a phone call, i think donald trump can talk to any leader he wants in the world. go for it. i think the problem is is when you don't have a real fundamental strategy in place. what is your far eastern policy? who are the staff surrounding it? what's it going to do to your relationship with north korea that you need the chinese for and what is it going to do on climate change that you need the chinese for and what's it going to do on iran that you
need the chinese for? donald trump didn't think all those things through. >> but there is a growing -- >> i think that's quite a reach to say he didn't think all of those things through and that no one around him did as well. china -- >> he didn't meet with anybody from the state department or the senate security council. >> china has been running free now for decades. we have an illusionary policy here where there is no taiwan, yes, there is, and we agree not to -- that the emperor is closed whenever it's convenient here. meanwhile, china is much more assertive and aggressive in the south china sea. they have doubled the number of submarines in the asian pacific that we do. they will soon have nearly three times as many, and no one has pushed back, and i think donald trump -- [ all talking at once ] >> when you think three steps down the road, is this going to help get china on board with north korea or hurt? >> before donald trump's election, there has been a growing chorus on -- in the republican party that we needed to be more aggressive with china, that we need to shift
from a policy of appeasement to a policy of counterbalance. >> projecting -- >> that china has not been a good actor on the world stage and it's time for america to be more assertive in its relationship. >> one of the ways america could have been assertive, have approved the trans-pacific partnership which was something that china deeply feared and now doesn't have to worry about because this president said he wouldn't do it. but, alex, if there were a one-off, you could say this was his china policy but calling -- speaking with the president of kazakhstan, the strong man there and praising him, talking to the president -- to the leader of pakistan and suggesting you'll come there, you know, inviting the very odd leader of the philippines here, all of these things have impacts that go beyond simply a conversation between two men when you're president of the united states and it doesn't appear to be as matthew said any preparation for
any of this. >> you talk about one-offs and i want to take that opportunity to move on to the whole carrier deal, as well. listening to mike pence this morning, matthew dowd, it sounds like the carrier negotiations are a one-off as well and now we're moving towards what president-elect trump was talking about this morning in his tweet, that tariff. >> listen, i think this is a complex thing. i think there is for donald trump and the voters that donald trump spoke for who felt like nobody had been talking about them, especially in the rust belt and manufacturing industry they think both pears forgot about them, didn't really deal with them. he says i'll do something about this. he's elected president and then something is done about this. you can argue about whether or not there's some grand economic policy there. i don't think it is. it seems like just a case-by-case basis of what he's doing. i think the problem with donald trump, and i think mike pence faced this on your questioning today, i think paul ryan is going to face this as speaker and i think mitch mcconnell is going to face this, this is not a republican conservative strategy and it's no part of any economic policy that any republican has bought into or been part of. >> but it is leadership to
provide one company relief from an oppressive tax and regulatory regime. is it the entire answer? >> i got a $7 million check -- >> excuse me. is it the entire answer, no, but, you know, not a -- [ all talking at once ] >> i think more importantly -- >> you know, the most important thing -- excuse me. the most important thing that happened in that meeting is the carrier ceo opened donald trump's eyes. he said he would trade all those benefits for one thing, a more open economy with less regulation. washington is crushing companies. >> i wonder if he told -- >> so, i think you're going to see a trump effort to open up the economy from regulation. >> -- that we are going to put a 35% tariff on those 1300 jobs that are going to mexico, because if you net it out i don't think that's a winner for them. i don't think he told them that. >> on this tariff issue, donald trump is going to run right into the republican congress. i do not believe that republicans in congress, those that were just elected a few weeks ago, are going to support any kind of tariff, any kind of
economic policy that is counter to what has been part of the republican brand. >> but, sara, isn't it important -- >> -- for decades. >> isn't it important for a republican leader to deal with the world, not say, hey, here's what we'd like in an ideal world. that's the opening bid in a negotiation. isn't it important for a republican leader to start asking for more so that we end up getting something to work for us? [ all talking at once ] >> i think the democratic president -- >> donald trump is a free trader with teeth. he's -- >> yeah, we'll see. >> that's what we're seeing. >> matthew. >> the most important thing any leader can do is tell the truth to the american public. is tell the truth to the american public about what it means to be in a global economy, what it means, how you're going to have to get retrading. what it means in this environment that we're in, what it means that trade really isn't responsible for the loss of most of the jobs, it's technology and innovation. that's the truth and donald trump -- >> no, it's not. by the way, regulatory regime is responsible for --
>> of course it is. >> for the loss of a -- ask anyone. >> we are in a global economy and the fact is americans have benefited through cheaper products. now your question is -- >> so, why isn't germany, why doesn't germany have a trade deficit? why do they have a trade surplus? because globalization should be affecting them. we are oppressing american businesses -- >> it's something he's allergic to. >> alex, the democratic president had done what donald trump did in the last few days and said what he said this morning, you would be the first one who would be howling about it. i agree with matthew. it's good politics for that rust belt area where he ran, but in terms of policy, it is wrong-headed policy and what is needed is a real strategy for dealing with these revolutionary changes in our economy, and we have no idea whether he has one. >> donald trump is going to have to navigate a very changing republican base. the base of the republican party is now against trade, yet the leaders in congress are pro-trade. he has to navigate what is going
to be a very tricky, disparate group of people in his broad coalition if he is going to be effective. one off-deal in carrier, huge political win. he has a long way to go. >> we only have about 20 r 30 seconds left. i want to go quickly around the table. who is the choice for secretary of state? >> i don't think anybody that we've really had on the shows or we've really focused on. i think it's someone -- we're unaware of next week. >> as far as i understand, everyone has been ruled out. mitt romney, rudy giuliani, so i have no answer. >> castellanos. >> everybody is taking a pass. >> i'm going to go with giuliani because i think he's going to ultimately go with the the person who is maybe arguably the most strongly for him. >> so, at the end come back to the lawyers. very interesting. we'll be right back. we'll be right back.
and now we honor our fellow americans who serve and sacrifice. in the month of november nine service members died overseas supporting operations in the middle east and afghanistan. we'll be right back. - announcer: here at airbnb, we want to work with the city on new common-sense home sharing rules. to help protect affordable housing, we've launched a one host, one home policy. so hosts may now only rent space at one address in san francisco. and we want to work together to improve the city's permit system so that it's simple, fair and effective.
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