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tv   Meet the Press  NBC  November 26, 2017 8:00am-9:01am PST

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point or is it? after refusing to back alabama's roy moore -- >> the president said if the allegations are true then that roy moore should step aside. >> president trump decides to stand by his man. >> i can tell you one thing for sure, we don't need a leral person in there, a democrat. >> while democrats face their own crisis, do they force out a popular senator who admits to inappropriate behavior? >> and he stuck his tongue in my mouth so fast. >> as well as their longest serving house member. and what message are they sending to women if they don't? my guest this morning, house minority leader nancy pelosi and anita hill, whose treatment nearly three decades ago is
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being reexamined. plus, do republicans really want to go into the 2018 midterms having raised taxes on parts of the middle class? i'll ask republican senator rob portman of ohio. and did former national security adviser michael flynn just cut a deal to cooperate with the mueller probe and what could that mean for the russia investigation? joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news correspondent katy tur, hugh houston, host on the salem radio network, heather mcgee and "washington post" columnist michael gerson. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." from nbc news in washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. i hope everyone is having a safe and healthy thanksgiving weekend. there are moments in the past half century when as americans we've been forced to re-examine
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our attitudes and ourselves, vietnam, civil rights, gay rights. in politics, we're facing the crucible of sexual harassment. our revulsion at what we've learned and our uncertainty about what to do about it going forward. is it time to demand the renation of all politicians accused of sexual harassment. -- than to have the other party win an election? what should a party do about one of its own who has been a supporter of women but now accused of sexual behavior we are how closely should we re-examine a former president whose party supported him despate multiple charges of misconduct and worse. how do we reckon with a sitting president accused by more than a dozen women of outright misconduct? in short, after another week of stories of powerful men taking advantage of women, it's clear we're and experiencing a shift in how we view sexual harassment and sexual assault. what's less clear is where we draw the line and what we do
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about it. >> the growing controversy -- >> the harvey weinstein scandal has emboldened victims to come forward nationwide. >> the revolt against sexual harassment and assault may in part be a backlash after donald trump's 2016 victory when millions of voters overlooked more than a dozen allegations of sexual misconduct. >> when you're a star. they let you do it. you can do anything. >> whatever you want. >> grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> and put mr. trump in the white house. a result that triggered thousands of women nationwide to begin an anti-trump movement that has flexed its muscles since the inauguration. this moment also serves as a reckoning of sorts for the democrats. after nearly three decades where party members largely overlooked sexual misconduct allegations against their biggest star, bill clinton. now each party is facing a test, for republican voters in alabama, senate candidate roy moore is accused of sexual misconduct by nine women, including leigh corfman, who says he molested her when she
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was just 14. the white house has shifted from distancing itself from moore -- >> there is no issue more important than the issue of child pedophilia. >> to seemingly embracing him. >> mr. president, is an accused child molester better than a democrat? >> well, he denies it. look, he deny it is. >> reporter: democrats are facing their own test. senator al franken has been accused of forcibly kissing radio host leeian tweeden on a uso tour in 2006. >> he stuck his tuck tongue in my mouth so quick. >> he has since released a new statement on thursday after three new allegations of unwanted touching. i'm a warm person. i hug people. i've learned from recent stories in some of those encounters, i crossed a line for some women. no democratic senator so far has called on franken to resign. then congressman john conyers, accused of paying off a former employee who says she was fired because she refused to provide sexual favors.
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new york congresswoman kathleen rice became the first and only congressional democrat to call on conyers to resign. >> saying we're going to have these allegations against politicians go before an ethics committee that can sometimes take a couple of years. no offense to my colleagues on the committee, but that's not real. that's not real and that's not accountability. >> democrats are still hesitant to criticize bill clinton. only willing to say that by today's standards they might be calling for his ouster. >> my point is that the tolerance that we had 25 years ago, what was allowed 25 years ago will not be tolerated today. >> i don't think you can rework history. i think if it happened today, if any president did that today, they would have to resign. >> joining me now is house democratic leader nancy pelosi of california. leader pelosi, welcome back to "meet the press." happy thanksgiving weekend. >> thank you. happy thanksgiving to you and congratulations on 70 years. >> thank you. thank you for that. we're now at 71.
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i'm going to go back into our way back machine here. here's you an "meet the press," asked specifically about allegations against president clinton. here is what you said back in 1998. >> why the silence? when there have been these allegations, serious ones about president clinton. >> well, i'd like to say that i think that the women of america are speaking out about what they think about this whole situation. and the women of america are just like other americans, in that they value fairness, they value privacy and do not want to see a person with uncontrolled power, uncontrolled time, uncontrolled -- unlimited money investigating the president of the united states. >> back then, and, look -- both senator gillibrand and mayor de blasio were making the argument that our culture has changed. and today the same allegations probably would have led
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democrats, perhaps like yourself, to call for his resignation. you can have a debate whether it was an impeachable offense. do you agree this is a generational change we're experiencing? >> obviously it is a generational change, but let me just say the concern that we had then was that they were impeaching the president of the united states. for something that had nothing to do with the performance of his duties and trying to take him out for that reason. but let's go forward. let's go forward. i think that something incredible has happened -- world is happening now. very incredible. it's almost 100 years since women got the right to vote. here we are almost 100 years later and something very transformative is happening, that is women are saying zero tolerance. no more. and we're going to speak out on it. and this is so wholesome, so refreshing, so different. >> but why do you think the
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reaction was different by women on bill clinton? and i say that because it does seem as if, frankly, when you watch some of the reactions by the president in defending roy moore, or at least overlooking the allegations against roy moore, were you putting politics ahead of your personal disgust? >> no, but we're talking a child molester. we're talking about a child molester. >> president clinton was accused of being a sexual predator and even rape at one point by one accuser. >> why don't we talk about instead how we go forward? nobody's proud of president clinton's behavior at the time. he was being impeached. >> i think the concern is that we allowed the erosion. the reason that we're at this moment and the reason it got worse over the last 20 years is because of the way we handled it collectively then. do you buy that? >> no, i buy the election of president trump really, as your presenter said earlier just evoked a response. so many women, and this is really important i think to note
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because i've had heard from so many women in the last few months. anita hill and so many women who have had a bad experience. and now a person possibliy engaged in that activity is the president of the united states. and now i'm speaking out. think as your presenter said earlier. >> it was me, actually. >> is that your voice? >> that's my voice. >> then you had it write when you said that harvey didn't evoke this, the election of president trump evoked the -- and everybody has served notice. let's go forward. okay, let's learn from past decisions and go forward. >> so design zero tolerance. you said there is a zero tolerance. what does that mean for john conyers, in or out? >> we are strengthened by due process. just because someone is accused, was it one accusation, was it
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two? john conyers is an icon in our country. he's done a great deal to protect women in the violence against women act, which the right-wing is now quoting me as praising him for his work on that. he did great work on that. but the fact is as genjohn revi his kay -- >> how is it that you don't? >> he will do the right thing. >> the right thing, resign? >> he will do the right thing in terms of what he knows about his situation. he is entitled to due process, but women are entitled to due process as well. >> he took advantage of a situation where he had -- the rules of congress and i know you guys want to change these rules, but he got to hide his settlement. his accusers had to go through all sorts of craziness so why is he entitled to new due process in this case? >> we are talking about what we have heard. i've asked the ethics committee to review that.
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he has said he will be open -- he will cooperate with any review. >> do you believe john conyers' accusers. >> i don't know who they are. they have not really come forward. >> so you don't know if you believe the accusations? >> that's for the ethics committee to review, but i believe he understands what is at stake here and he will do the right thing. but all of these nondisclosure agreements have to go. by the way, some of them are there to protect the victim because they didn't want some of it to be public. but that's over. in other words, if the victim wants to be private, she can be. >> yeah. >> he or she can be. >> i guess it goes back to, what is this line, right? what is a fireable offense? you say it's zero tolerance, but what does that mean if you're saying john conyers, who already had due process, gets to stay right now? >> well, as i said, we've asked for the ethics committee to review that. and i believe it will do the
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right thing. >> where are you on senator franken? >> i don't think you can equate senator franken with roy moore. those are two different things. so, you know, let's be -- let's have some -- >> you would accept an apology right now from al frank if there are no other accusers or all we know is what we know? >> right. also, his accusers have to accept an apology. the victims have some say in all of this as well. and that has happened in the past. people have accepted an apology as it's coming forth now that i see in the press. but we didn't know because there was a nondisclosure agreement to protect the victims. sometimes they didn't want to be public. sometimes they did. now they will have their choice. this is about going forward. and when we go forward, we will address all of that, but we also have to address it for every workplace in the country. not just in the congress of the united states. and that's very important. and that -- a good deal of that would be done by the judiciary committee. >> okay. >> and i know that john would take that into consideration.
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>> shouldn't he -- you have one member -- gregory meeks called for him to be withdrawn as ranking member. isn't that something in your power? can't you decide he should be suspended as ranking member on judiciary? >> this will happen when we come together the beginning of this week, i think john will do the right thing. >> you're not going to unilaterally make that decision? >> i'm not sharing that with you right now. but what i am saying is this is a big distraction and it's very, very important. do you know that the beginning of the women's movement, elizabeth katie stant, she would hear examples of family domestic violence. that was one of the motivators for her to advance the cause of women. so this is as old as -- well, it's old as civilization probably, but in terms of our history and the women's movement, one of the motivators. now 100 years after her fight for the right for women to vote, we will have -- we'll clear the
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deck on this. but i am here to talk about something also transformative in our society, and that is this tax bill that the republicans have put forth. >> i want to get into this, but there seems to be a bit of a political plarll sis in prying figure this out. >> we will pass legislation this week for anti-distinction and harassment behavior. we have to take a measure that has to pass both houses of congress for ending nondisclosure, who pays, all of the concerns that we have about this. i don't think that it should -- we want to give people hope. this is going to be addressed. women have spoken out. their concerns will be addressed in a way that i think will give comfort as well as end this behavior. because, you know what, it's disgusting, it's repulsive and it has to be zero tolerance. >> will congress -- will you
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support congress retroactively making public all of these private settlements that taxpayer dollars have been used? >> not necessarily. sometimes the victim doesn't want that. >> if the victim wants it public, will you side with the victim? >> yes. >> 100? >> here is the thing, it's really important. there is a question as to whether the ethics committee can get testimony if you've signed a nondisclosure agreement. we're saying we think the ethics committee can, but if you don't agree, we'll pass a law that says the ethics committee can. >> all right. >> a resolution in congress that the ethics committee can. but there is no -- i don't want anybody thinking there is any challenge here to our changing the law and see how people -- when we know more about the individual cases. but you know what our biggest strength is? due process. that protects the rights of the victim so that whatever the outcome is, everybody knows that there was due process. >> leader pelosi, unfortunately for time, i've got to end it
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there. appreciate you coming on. >> you mean we're not going to talk about taxes? you have fallen into the place they are doing something that is going to increase the debt enormously. >> i've been covering it a lot. >> it's going to be a job killer and it's going to raise taxes on the middle class. and that is -- has a big impact on the individual lives of all americans. and really we should be spending more time on that. >> do you think this other issue isn't as serious as taxes? >> i think it's -- look, as a woman, mother of four daughters, i think it's enormously important. but i think that we have to have a balance in how we go forward because -- >> trust me, i struggle with this every day. >> this is giving them cover. there are so many reasons that we should be concerned about the republican majority in congress. >> i am going to be asking a republican across the aisle some of these questions in a few minutes. anyway, leader pelosi, i have to leave the there. i appreciate it. >> that's disappointing. >> let me say one more thing.
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>> i want to thank the firefighters and our first responders in california for what they did in the fires. our thanksgiving is -- we prayed for them as a blessing to us. wishing their families the best. >> a worthy last word. thank you very much. joining me now from the other side of the aisle, republican senator rob portman of ohio. senator portman, welcome back to the show, sir. >> hi, chuck. thanks for having me back. >> i want to start with roy moore. i know you have said you do not believe he should be a candidate. you have called for him to step aside. you said you believe the accusers. the president of the united states says in fact in a new tweet says the last thing we need in alabama and the u.s. senate and a schumer/pelosi puppet weak on crime, weak on the border. bad for our military and our great vets. wants to raise the taxes to the sky. those are his words in the tweet there. jones would be a disaster. do you agree with the president that it is better if alabamans elect somebody who has been
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accused of being a child molester of a democrat simply due to ideology? >> well, i stand with what i said earlier, think it would be best if he stepped aside. by the way, i think the president said that initially. i think that would be better for the country and the elections in a few weeks here, a couple of weeks maybe, and, you know, there is a possibility for folks to do write-in candidates. so we'll see. no, think it would be best if he stepped aside. >> if you were a voter in alabama, what would you do? jeff flake said he would vote democrat in roy moore were the only other option. >> well, i'd probably vote for a republican, but it wouldn't be roy moore. >> you would cast that vote knowing it probably throws the election, you know, the more republicans split their vote -- you're okay if a democrat gets elected there as long as it's not roy moore? >> yeah, look, chuck, as you know, i endorsed the other guy, luther strange. i thought he would have been a terrific senator. he's my colleague now. i never endorsed the roy moore. when these allegations came out, i did say as more came out and
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the women went on the record, i thought there was a lot of credible in what they were saying and i didn't find the response very credible. >> scott jennings, a republican strategist who i think lives on the border of ohio and kentucky so you may know him very well. said this in "the new york times" this weekend about this situation. either we're saddled with a democrat in a seat that ought to be republican or a brand anvil that is going to drag down the president, the senate, drag down the party and plunge the senate into immediate turmoil when he gets there. is it worse for the republican party, senator portman, if roy moore wins or loses? >> i don't know. look, the talking heads like scott talks about that. what i do think is that, you know, it would be best if he were to step aside. and, look, we have an opportunity as nancy pelosi just said to pass tax reform. i think she is misrepresented everything in that tax reform proposal as an example, but we've got some great opportunities here and we'll move forward with these regardless of what happens, but i do think it would be best if
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he stepped aside. >> the senate -- senator franken, one of your colleagues, obviously on the other side of the aisle. he called for a senate ethics investigation into himself. i think you concurred with that. what do you believe should be the threshold of whether he should still serve or not? >> well, the ethics investigate ought to go forward and we ought to, you know, get to all the facts, just as in the case of john conyers. this was talked about earlier. i hope we see action on that even this week. we'll see what the facts are. i don't know all the facts. i don't think all of those are public yet. i do think all of this, as difficult as it is in some respects for our society, it really important because i think it will end up changing people's attitudes and changing our culture. so i -- i'm glad it's being discussed. i think it should be more transparent. i certainly think that if you accept taxpayer funds for a settlement, that should be
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transparent. >> would you support retroactively -- would you support retroactively making all of these settlements public when you guys address this situation in congress? >> yes. yes, i would. >> okay. >> i would. look, i think it's outrageous the taxpayers are asked to pay these settlements in the first place and we should make transparent what happened. >> do you believe the accusers of donald trump? >> well, as you know, as the end of the election when the tape came out that you played earlier, i chose to support a different candidate than donald trump because of that. so, you know, you've got to have a process. i agree due process is important. but we also have to be sure that victims have the right to be able to come forward. that there is transparency here with regard to the situation in the house and senate. outrageous to me that over the years there has been taxpayer funding used for settlements without any notification or transparency. and also i think it's wrong the way victims are treated because they have to go through a
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laborious process. some victims want to keep it private. that's fine. they should have a right to do that, but an expedited process to bring their complaints. >> between the "access hollywood" tape of donald trump and roy moore in alabama. if voters send roy moore to the senate and i know you want a senate ethics investigation if he gets sent to the senate, but what are voters saying about our moral lines? >> well, i think it's a fair question. voters care a lot about policy issues. the president talked about that in the tweet you mentioned. it includes tax reform, how you deal with the debt and deficit, it includes issues that are really important to people on on the social side. issues like abortion and gun control. so voters are going to make those decisions based on a lot of different factors but one certainly is character, and i think the american people
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deserve to have the highest standards of ethical conduct by their elected officials. period. >> okay. but if the voters send back people that you believe ethically or morally are unsuited for the senate, do you believe the senate should expel those folks or do you think the voters, hey, you have to respect the right of the voters on that one? >> well, it's an important question, but that's why you have an ethics committee. i served on the ethics committee when i was in the house. went through that same process. the person that is the subject of that ethics committee process, by the way, was defeated in his re-election because of the information that we were able to provide to the voters of that district. so i think there is a way for this ethics process to work. it needs to be expedited, as i said. we need to get moving on it quickly. provide due process and the transparency to that voters know what the situation is. >> i've got to ask you about an issue that impacts the state of ohio. the consumer finance protection
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board, the chair has since resigned. he's going to run for your home state of ohio as a democrat. he designated a deputy director and the president has designated now i guess an acting director. who in your opinion is in charge of the consumer financial protection board come monday morning? the current deputy as the acting director or do you believe president trump's decision to put mick mulvaney there is legal? >> well, first of all, my understanding is that richard resigned a week earlier than he was planning to in order to put his deputy in charge, trying to circumvent the process that the president would have the ability to point somebody on an interim basis until congress confirms a new director. my hope is we won't play those games. have an interim process and it will be mick mulvaney or someone else, the president chooses and congress will get busy in
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choosing a new director. >> mick mulvaney has mocked the consumer financial protection board. is he the right person to put in charge? you'v you've been budget director. can you do both jobs? it's unrealistic, right? >> i'm sure there will be somebody working the operations day to day, but you know it's come under a lot of pressure because of the way it was established. it has no accountability. in other words, unlike other boards and oversight organizations, there is no appropriation so there is no way for congress or the voters, you know, through their members of congress to affect the decisions. it's very unusual. they get their funds directly from the federal reserve. second, there is no board or commission. there is nothing bipartisan about it. third, there is an issue about the director and whether the president has the ability without cause to be able to replace that director. all of those are issues. i've introduced legislation actually to provide an inspector general. they have no inspector general as an example. it's an unusual organization. and i think it is inconsistent
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with the accountability in the federal government otherwise and i think that's a big problem. but i do think there needs to be a new director confirmed and we should do that quickly. >> all right. i'm going to leave it there. senator portman, republican from ohio. a lot we tried to get to today. i appreciate you coming on. >> chuck, since nancy pelosi talked about the tax bill can i talk about the middle class tax cuts are in there, the economic growth is in there. >> do you acknowledge -- >> it's an opportunity for us to fix the broken tax code. >> do you acknowledge that not everybody's taxes are going down? some in the middle to upper middle class will see their total tax bill go up when you account for state and local as well? >> it doubles the standard deduction up to 24 grand for a family. it doubles the child tax credit. it actually -- it lowers the rates to point that in ohio the average is $2,375 for the median income family. everybody in every group, chuck, and every bracket, that group as a whole will see tax cuts. so, you know, it's just been
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misrepresented. i hope people will go online and look for themselves. >> all right. >> go on to the joint committee on taxation. jct.gov. that's the one that is official. you'll see it has substantial middle class tax cuts for a family of two making 50 grand a year. >> okay. i let both you and leader pelosi go probably far too long than my executive producer wanted. senator portman, thank you very much. >> thanks, chuck. when we come back, i'm going to talk to anita hill, whose accusations of sexual harassment against clarence thomas were their experience is coveted. their leadership is instinctive. they're experts in things you haven't heard of - researchers of technologies that one day, you will. some call them the best of the best. some call them veterans. we call them our team.
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♪ [ click ] [ keyboard clacking ] [ clacking continues ] good questions lead to good answers. our advisors can help you find both. talk to one today and see why we're bullish on the future. yours. well, those were some interesting interviews. hugh hewitt, katy tur and "washington post" columnist michael gerson. i will throw in one note from
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rich lowery. any revolution has its pit falls. in all likelihood there will be overcorrection that will create its own wrongs. heather mcgee. >> absolutely. this is one place where i really agree with rich lowry because fundamentally these issues are a question of power. when we think about what we need to get at this to really protect women and people in the work place, to really change this dynamic it's the fact that men are still the majority of people who own the wealth, economic power, political power. gate keepers for careers and whole industries. you really can't prey on someone unless you have that degree of power. as we are thinking about this issue we are thinking about
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things that some people don't think of. it's not just about sexual harassment training. it is about more women in leadership. it is about more diversity at all levels of power. >> you are getting to the question we are trying to wonder. when do we know we are past this moment meaning we have taken another step? >> you look at the clinton example and you had people saying at the time it is just sex. and people don't say that anymore. this is coercion. it's exploitation, dehumanization is what we are talking about, abuse of power. that i think is the line that we have crossed is that this is not a private matter. this is, in fact, a public matter that requires both a moral and legal re-dress. >> hugh, you probably -- you publically showed your angst about donald trump more than anybody.
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you sa i want to put up a gloria steinem quote, something to me that sounded similar. if all the sexual allegations now swirling around the white house turn out to be true -- if you change the words feminists to conservatives and right wing to left wing it sounds like rationalization we are seeing today in roy moore. >> they deal with these allegations especially in alabama which is current, i have to watch the nancy pelosi interview again slowly. i agree with a couple of points. other points were incoherent. in the audience a huge number of people have been assaulted and discriminate skpd subject of false allegations.
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ca it is the fear of the latter cannot overwhelm our action on the former but due process mediates that. when we come to due process for the presidential claims i was never persuaded of the burden of proof in these cases by any of the 14. >> that is what i found so interesting about your conversation on friday. one of the points you made is that there weren't corroborating evidence. there is year book of the one girl accusing roy moore but a number of people backed up the accusers' stories. in donald trump's case where women told their boyfriends at the time and that is where i don't really understand the i'm going to believe roy moore's accusers whole heartedly and not believe donald trump's accusers. there is a disconnect.
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>> i don't want to bore the world with this. in roy moore the mom is at a courthouse. there is a physical document and no denying that that happened that she met him out there. >> donald trump was on the plane. there is evidence that donald trump was in trump tower when one woman said she kissed him. there is evidence of donald trump being in these places. one thing i have been struck by in this whole conversation is that we have a different set of standards clearly for everybody else and for politicians. for men in the media, for men in hollywood, they are gone. it is over. the accusers are believed. for men in politics there is which side of the aisle is this? i like al franken or john conyers or roy moore because they are representing whatever i want them to do in washington so
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i will be more skeptical about who is accusing them. >> it's not just tribal politics but tribal morality. democrats saying he is pro choice. that is moral at its worst. you have the governor of alabama making the case. i believe the women. >> i'm voting republican. that i think is the real problem, this motivating reasoning. >> that is what makes it -- i feel like we, the political world looks so much more out of touch than the rest of the world. >> i think this is a question where we have the republican party with the serious morality problem right now. i want to name it. we have a party saying neil gorsuch is one thing. i testified against his nomination if that is what was able to be compelling to let trump's indiscretions and abuse of power go, fine.
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we are talking about roy moore as a pretty much everyone acknowledges that there is credible evidence that he was a child molester. the reason why members of the republican infrastructure are saying we have to let this man walk into the senate is so we can cut taxes on the rich. that is deeply imoral. >> where is the floor if it is not child molester? >> i think that is what we are trying to figure out. when we come back we will talk to a woman who knows as much as anyone on what it is much as anyone on what it is like to make a harassment much as anyone on what it is like to make a harassment retail. under pressure like never before. and it's connected technology that's moving companies forward fast. e-commerce. real time inventory. virtual changing rooms. that's why retailers rely on comcast business to deliver consistent network speed across multiple locations. every corporate office, warehouse and store
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what's with all the questions? ask your broker if they're offering $6.95 online equity trades and a satisfaction guarantee. if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab. perhaps no one is more close closely associated with sexual harassment claims. when clarence thomas was nominate today supreme court in 1991 anita hill alleged he sexually harassed her years earlier. the images are jarring to our 21st century eyes. there is 35-year-old hill facing
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14 senators, all men, all of them white, all at least middle aged. a poll at the time showed by oo three to one margin americans were more inclined to believe thomas' denials than hill's accusations. the cascade of sexual harassment charges arising and the reaction overall to them. joining me now is anita hill. ms. hill, welcome back to "meet the press," actually. >> yes. thank you and good morning. >> let me start here. in many ways a lot of things have changed. clarence thomas is still in the supreme court. bill clinton never had to resign. donald trump was elected after hearing some vicious comments and alleged allegations that he did. have we made progress?
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>> we have made progress. unfortunately 26 years ago washington wasn't ready to lead on this issue and i'm afraid even today washington cannot lead the country on this issue. seems to be too many conflicted feelings and understanding about what needs to happen when sexual misconduct occurs. >> what do you think happened in 1991 at the time? you think that was a group of men who simply didn't believe you and truly didn't believe you or were they just uncomfortable with having to deal with the issue? >> i think it was a combination of factors that came into play in 1991. some people probably didn't believe me. other people believed me but they didn't care. they were talking -- we were talking about politics and political expediency. many of the decisions i think and the way that i was treated
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were based on political expediency and not really on the merits of my testimony, not really in terms of the character and fitness for clarence thomas to sit on the supreme court evaluating these cases and finally not really on the merits and needs for gender equity in this country. >> do you think it has been difficult politically on this issue because there has been one party that fought harder. that might be a generic argument one might make. at the same time that may lead to why does it look like activists for gender equality forgive a democrat for sexual harassment more often than they forgive a republican. how do we get out of that box inside our political movements? >> i have been saying all along
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for the past few years as i talk about sexual harassment that when it comes down to it and all of the facts are brought out and into play then we are going to have to make some very tough decisions about people who we otherwise admire. and i think this is really something that we haven't come to terms with whether in washington, d.c. and in many cases whether it is in a college or university or in our work places. i'm really not inside of washington, d.c. and cannot really speak to how things are going to turn out, but i do say that the leadership out of washington may not be the leadership that is going to clarify these issues for us. we need to count on leaders whether they are in business or labor or university or in the military to help us move forward on this.
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and that's really what i am looking for. after 26 years of hearing from women, i can't say i was entirely surprised with the me, too allegations and stories that came out of me, too. but i am just shocked that if we cannot look at those now and see that we have a widespread problem in this country. and i think we are really at the tip of the iceberg here. many stories have already come out. there are still women who are marginalized, women who are in minimum wage jobs, women of color who may be fearful of coming forward with their stories because they don't want to embarrass people racially. there are all kinds of things at play. there will be women in immigrant communities who may fear coming out because of jeopardizing immigrant status.
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we haven't heard from everyone. we have heard from enough women to know that this is a severe problem and that it is hurting not only those individuals but that it is hurting all of us as a society. >> i want you to extrapolate on something you said recently. you know, last year during i think it was a 25th anniversary look backs and you had been critical of joe biden who was senate judiciary committee at the time. he apologized for what you had to go through. you made the point that you said it came across as an i'm sorry if you were offended and you went on to say you don't believe he has taken ownership yet of what he did wrong. what did he not get and what does he still not get in your opinion? >> first of all, let me say that many people viewing those hearings thought they were disastrous. it wasn't just me.
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many women across the country and many men we have to understand it is not just about whether i accept an apology from joe biden. we need to look at what we can learn from the hearing and what we can learn about the need to have a clear and transparent process. what do we need to learn about the need to have a thorough investigation? the idea that we should be calling witnesses to allow them to testify in person, witnesses who have experienced the same kind of misconduct from the individual who is being accused. and then we really need to have some clear standards about what happens when we find that there is credible evidence that an individual has acted in this way and engaged in egregious behavior. what do we do with that individual? what are the consequences? >> that is something we are all trying to figure out in all of our sectors of life but
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especially in the world of politics. professor hill, thanks for coming on. appreciate it. >> thank you. when wie come back, what is the one subject people don't the one subject people don't want to t ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ what we do every night is like something out of a strange dream. except that the next morning... it all makes sense. fedex powers global commerce with vast, far-reaching networks... deep knowledge of industries...
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welcome back. data download time. we have some new numbers from reuters about which topics of conversation cause the most heartburn. 18% say work, 25% say family gossip. 37% religion, he 2%, money and financing. number one though, least favorite, politics. this year, 62% say politics is among their least favorite conversation topics over holiday meals by the way, the feeling is bipartisan. it's across the board. it's one thing we actually agree on. how about that? we'll have to find out if our panel agrees with that when we come back. coming up, end game, brought to you by boeing. continuing our mexican mission to coming up end game brought to you by boeing. this is electricity. ♪ this is a power plant.
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end game brought to you by boeing, continuing our mission to connect, protect, explore and inspire. >> back now with end game. hugh hewitt, is congress going to be engulfed in sexual harassment issue because we hear more names trickle out or is the tax bill actually going to get some meaningful room for debate
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or is it already cooked? >> it is already cooked. it will get through the senate i believe. it will get through in ten days. when it does it will be big conference discussion. you can do two things at one time. there will be many other stories. we had 300 people slaughtered in egypt. >> is this a good tax bill for republicans to run on in 2018? >> i don't think so. it could have been. i think there are parts of it that would have been popular. yo ahave the university of chicago study this week with a survey of 38 economists. almost universally. >> my favorite is 37 of the 38 believe the same thing. >> and they concluded that we are not going to see significant growth out of this and you are going to blow a hole in the
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deficit. are there three republicans left in the senate that actually care about debt? i'm not sure. i think they go along because they think the alternative is worse. >> it is also a missed opportunity to invest in the things this country needs. we talk a lot about the deficit and debt. we have a child care affordability crisis in this country. we have infrastructure that is rotting from the inside and poisoning people. that is what nearly $2 trillion. >> politically they could have basically sold deficit spending on tax cuts if they had included infrastructure. the irony is politically they could have given more cover on that. michael flynn, katy tur, michael flynn's attorneys no longer talking. the assumption is that means michael flynn is now cooperating with mueller.
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michael flynn is the one person donald trump has not thrown under the bus. >> it makes everyone believe he has entered a deal with robert mueller. if he is entering a deal with robert mueller that means he has some bigger fish to turn over, something more important than michael flynn. jared kushner, maybe donald trump, maybe don jr. the question is, does he have a deal in place or is he so leveraged because of the threats against his son, is he just opening conversations because he has to. that being said, donald trump should be somewhat nervous by this because michael flynn was campaigning with him, on the plane with him. they grew very, very close. he opened for him at a number of rallies. you are right, the two people donald trump doesn't go after and doesn't insult, michael flynn and can vladimir putin. >> you can argue he has the mueller probe because he was so obsessed with trying to save
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michael flynn from a comey investigation. this has to be a blow to the president. >> there is a second inturpuation which is mine. the foreign agents act. i believe he is cooperating. i do not believe -- >> i think everyone who has violated over the past 20 years better lawyer up. >> bob mueller, that may be draining the lobbiest s. we were stuffed with food and thanksgiving and with a show today. that is all we have for today. thank you for watching. if it's sunday it's "meet the press."
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"press: here" is sponsored by barracuda network. this week, a high tech ce 00 tells us what it's like to meet with donald trump and the white house. a robot lets you keep an eye on older parents and want a new job? your first job interview could be with a computer. our reporters, mark nu and al-jazeera's jacob ward on "press: here." good morning, everyone. i'm scott mcgrew. the white house held tech week recently and lots of ceos from silicon valley went to washingtono

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