tv 60 Minutes CBS October 4, 2015 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
captioning funded by cbs and ford. we go further, so you can. >> we are at probably the largest transformative moment in the history of the automobile. >> whitaker: that's quite a statement from the head of the national highway traffic safety administration. but as you will see tonight, the biggest names in the auto industry and high tech are racing to develop driverless cars, powered by a form of artificial intelligence. so this is like, no hands, no feet, the car is in charge? >> the car is in charge. >> stahl: you put vodka in water bottles. >> i put vodka in poland spring water bottles and i put oxycontin in bayer aspirin bottles. >> stahl: patrick kennedy is talking about how he fed his addictions while he was a
congressman. what he writes in his book is some pretty explosive stuff about himself and about his famous family. are you worried about how the family is going to react? >> i know how some of them are going to react. >> stahl: they're not pleased. >> no. >> stahl: they're angry. >> they're angry. >> logan: what have we learned about the holocaust that we didn't know before you began your investigation? >> i learned that you like to see other people dying in front of you, killed by other people when you are sure you will not be killed. >> logan: it was a dramatic finding, one of many revelations this selfless french priest discovered about the holocaust that we never knew before. >> the method that he's used, extraordinary. we can understand minute by minute what happened in hundreds of localities where before we just had fog. >> kroft: i'm steve kroft. >> stahl: i'm lesley stahl.
where our next arrival is... red carpet whoa! toenail fungus!? fight it! with jublia. jublia is a prescription medicine used to treat toenail fungus. use jublia as instructed by your doctor. are you getting this?! most common side effects include ingrown toenail, application site redness, itching, swelling, burning or stinging, blisters, and pain. oh, epic moves, big j! fight it! getting ready for your close-up? ask your doctor if jublia is right for you. visit our website for savings on larger size. 40% of the streetlights in detroit, at one point, did not work. you had some blocks and you had major thoroughfares and corridors that were just totally pitch black. those things had to change. we wanted to restore our lighting system in the city.
you can have the greatest dreams in the world, but unless you can finance those dreams, it doesn't happen. at the time that the bankruptcy filing was done, the public lighting authority had a hard time of finding a bank. citi did not run away from the table like some other bankers did. citi had the strength to help us go to the credit markets and raise the money. it's a brighter day in detroit. people can see better when they're out doing their tasks, young people are moving back in town, the kids are feeling safer while they walk to school. and folks are making investments and the community is moving forward. 40% of the lights were out, but they're not out for long.they're coming back.
>> whitaker: car accidents cost us much more than time and money-- they also take a staggering number of lives. every year on american roads, nearly 33,000 people die, almost all because of driver error. that's the equivalent of a 747 full of passengers crashing once a week for a year. self-driving cars could save more than two-thirds of those lives. that's what the nation's top auto regulator told us. it's no wonder the biggest names in the auto industry and high tech are racing to develop driverless cars powered by a form of artificial intelligence. six years ago, google rolled out a prototype that jumpstarted the competition. today, apple and uber are experimenting, too. we wanted to see how far the
technology has come, so we hit the road in silicon valley, the new detroit for self-driving cars. what do you have to do to make the car take over? >> ralf herrtwich: i just pull this lever. and now... >> whitaker: system is active? >> herrtwich: it goes. >> whitaker: computer scientist ralf herrtwich runs autonomous vehicle research for mercedes- benz. he punched in a route and took us for a 20-mile drive on city streets and highways in this s500, the company's most advanced self-driving prototype. so, this is like no hands, no feet, car is in charge? >> herrtwich: yeah, the car is in charge. >> whitaker: right from the start, the car astonished us. as we approached our first intersection, it slowed down and steered itself into the left turn lane. it's a german car, so naturally it has a german accent. that was the voice of herrtwich's secretary. so it just took off by itself
when the light turned green, and now it's making this left turn by itself, with other traffic around. this is absolutely amazing. just two minutes into the ride, we entered a freeway onramp. if you think a normal merge is nerve-wracking, try it with a driver who's talking with his hands. i must admit, i find it a little disconcerting that we are driving toward the freeway, and you don't have your hands on the wheel. >> herrtwich: shall i put them back on? would that make you feel more comfortable? >> whitaker: no, no, no. herrtwich gave us a rare opportunity to go on an actual test run near mercedes' silicon valley lab. almost every major auto maker is working on the technology here. nissan has teamed up with nasa. auto parts maker delphi put its system in this audi. it was the first to drive itself across the country. back at that merge, don't hold your breath for the car to step on it. this s500 won't break the speed limit.
are you going to have little old ladies driving up behind you, beeping the horn to get going, get moving? >> herrtwich: some people have remarked that the car itself, in some cases, drives a bit like an old lady. that's... that's fine with us, for the time being. >> whitaker: especially since the car has driven about 20,000 miles without an accident. mercedes made its name selling the passion for driving on the open road. now, it sees a future in the growing desire to be driven through traffic-jammed streets. what's fueling this? >> herrtwich: people are increasingly asking for this. people probably have become used to live more with computers and interact with computers, and they feel more comfortable doing this. and so, all of a sudden, we see this interest. and hey, there are certain situations where i don't want to drive. "can your car do it for me?" >> whitaker: first, you're amazed, then you begin to relax. surprisingly, it took less than ten minutes to feel comfortable with the car in control.
this is amazing. but don't get too comfortable. >> herrtwich: this is not good. >> whitaker: those beeps, that's not a sound you want to hear. it means the car senses trouble and needs a helping human hand. >> herrtwich: now, the vehicle asks me to take over. ( beeping ) >> herrtwich: now, the vehicle asks me to take over. >> whitaker: at this intersection, that silver car got too close. >> herrtwich: this is... for example, i... rather took over. it would've managed, but i, really it was... this was too close for us. >> whitaker: that guy was getting into our lane there? >> herrtwich: yeah. >> whitaker: it only happened a few times while we were driving around. herrtwich says teaching the car to handle encounters like that silver car-- on chaotic city streets with impulsive human drivers-- will keep his engineers busy for the next decade. i'm not an engineer. but how do you figure things like that out? >> herrtwich: the important thing about an autonomous vehicle is it has to have a very good sense of its environment. a vehicle cannot react to something it does not see, so we have to be very careful that we
see everything that happens around us. >> whitaker: the car sees with an array of cameras and radar sensors designed into the body, feet in all directions. >> herrtwich: we can actually detect more quickly that something is happening that may cause an accident than the human driver can. >> whitaker: so these cars would actually be safer, you're saying, than a human driver? >> herrtwich: that's what we aim for. >> whitaker: that's what google is driving for, too. its autonomous cars rely on roof-mounted laser sensors to see the road. in the last six years, its fleet has driven more than a million miles. >> chris urmson: we're getting to a place where we're comparable to human driving today. >> whitaker: robotics scientist chris urmson is the director of google's self-driving car project. he invited us inside his silicon valley garage, where the autonomous future is taking shape. google's a tech company, not a
car maker. >> urmson: absolutely. but the heart of what makes the technology work is the algorithms and the software, and that's one of the things that we are really quite good at. >> whitaker: there are so many variables, so many different scenarios. how is it possible to put all of that knowledge into a car? >> urmson: and that's really the trick, right? that's what makes this hard. you can't just kind of go through and enumerate, you know, the 1,000 different scenarios it might encounter, because it's not 1,000. there's an infinite number of them, right? and so the trick is to develop these algorithms that can generalize. >> whitaker: by generalize, he means "think," and this is how it works. the algorithms are trained to recognize other cars, pedestrians, cyclists, and animals from their movements, size, and shape. each car's daily driving experience is analyzed, uploaded and shared. the cars can then make predictions and choices based on the collective knowledge of the fleet.
look in the lower left corner as one of urmson's cars encounters a pickup truck that stops to parallel park. now, how does the computer know that it's someone intending to back into a parking space, and not someone who's just stopped in the street? >> urmson: our cars have seen thousands and thousands of vehicles. and they get a "feeling," you know, they get a feeling really for what the behavior of those vehicles are going to be. >> whitaker: really? >> urmson: so its seen lots of cars backing up, and so it understands if there's a space here, and a car stopped just in front of it, that means it's going to probably back into that spot. >> whitaker: my smart phone has computer glitches. my computer has glitches. how do you get people to trust that this computer-on-wheels is not going to have a glitch? >> urmson: we're all used to our bits of home computing doing funny things, right? and what you have to remember is they're engineered and designed very differently. the way we develop the software, the way we develop the hardware, you know, the way we think about redundancy, the way we think about the situations it has to
deal with on the road, it's completely different. >> whitaker: right now, the technology can't handle snow. google's cars can't operate in heavy rain. the mercedes s500 can't decipher hand gestures from traffic cops or pedestrians. four million miles of roads in the u.s. must be mapped in ultra-high definition detail. the auto makers call these solvable problems. in the meantime, the car industry plans to automate the driving experience feature by feature, what some are calling "revolution by evolution." the revolution is already being televised in ads. >> backup collision intervention which can brake, even before you do. >> whitaker: in showrooms today, you can buy features to automatically keep you in your lane, help you park, drive you in stop-and-go traffic, and coming soon, hands free highway driving. tesla is making it available this month.
g.m. plans to offer it in a 2017 cadillac. >> mark rosekind: we are at probably the largest transformative moment in the history of the automobile. >> whitaker: mark rosekind is head of the national highway traffic safety administration. he is optimistic but also realistic about this new technology. >> rosekind: this is really different than just thinking about the engine parts and the tires. now, we're talking about cars are computers, so issues related to cyber security and privacy are just as big an issue as the defect in the manufacturing process. >> whitaker: someone can hack your computer and steal your money. but someone can hack your car and you can die. >> rosekind: people have to trust these vehicles. if they read or suspect in any way that they literally could be one virus away from a crash occurring, they're not going to get in that car. they're not going to buy it, they're not going to let it drive them. that whole future evaporates. >> whitaker: rosekind also worries about a future in which drivers place too much trust in
the cars. >> rosekind: think about how some of this is being sold. "oh, you can take a nap. you can read the paper." what would you do if you had to take over in a certain emergency situation? nobody has that future totally nailed yet. >> whitaker: mercedes and other major carmakers say humans will always have a role in driving. but chris urmson of google says it's dangerous to require humans to snap to attention and take control at a moment's notice, so the company stopped developing cars that put humans on call. now, it's testing 25 fully autonomous electric prototypes custom built for the job. so i would punch in where i wanted to go and it would just take off and go there? >> urmson: and it'd take off, you press the little "go" button under here. pull away from the curb, take you where you wanted. >> whitaker: for safety, the cars max out at 25 miles per hour. they don't need steering wheels or pedals, but they have them to comply with current california law. >> jamie waydo: the goal of this is to improve the remote
assistance link? >> whitaker: jamie waydo oversees the engineering. she used to work at nasa on autonomous vehicles of a different sort, the mars rovers. >> waydo: doing self-driving cars here on earth is actually more challenging in a lot of ways. >> whitaker: more difficult than driving across the surface of mars? >> waydo: ( laughs ) i think so. humans are so unpredictable. and so having to try to have a car who can out-predict an unpredictable human is amazing and really, really hard. >> whitaker: google's cars have been in nine minor accidents in self-driving mode-- all, the company says, the fault of humans driving in the other cars. google and mercedes told us, if their technology is at fault once it becomes commercially available, they'll accept responsibility and liability. but all involved expect fewer crashes as the technology evolves. for now, it's accelerating to the near future and beyond. this is mercedes' vision for the
year 2030, the f015. >> peter lehmann: so we have an app. >> whitaker: you can summon it with your phone. >> lehmann: the car will start and come to you. >> whitaker: german engineer peter lehmann took us for a test drive at an old naval base on san francisco bay. the car's radical design was shaped by expectations of life in the future. you turn your back to the steering wheel. mercedes is planning for overcrowded cities, perpetual gridlock, and an autonomous car to drive the stress away. >> lehmann: now you can relax, or you can... look a movie. so you have really gained time. >> whitaker: i feel like i'm driving into the future right now. >> lehmann: ah, ha, yes. >> whitaker: a future google's chris urmson says is coming and coming fast. so how long before that day? >> urmson: so... i talk about this is, i have two children-- 11- and nine-year-old.
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>> stahl: the youngest child of senator ted kennedy, patrick kennedy, was supposed to be the heir apparent to a political dynasty. but after his father died, patrick resigned from congress and is now leading a political movement to change the way people view and talk about mental illness and addiction, that he himself suffers from. he says they're medical issues, not moral issues or character flaws. and he wants them treated with the same urgency we treat cancer
and heart disease. now nearly five years sober, he has written a memoir, "a common struggle," in which he traces not only his struggles, but those of his famous father and mother, revealing details about them that not everyone in the family wants revealed and some may dispute. his purpose, he says, is to show that when people have these illnesses, being silent about them is almost as bad as the disease. >> patrick kennedy: it's a conspiracy of silence, not only for the person who is suffering, but for everyone else who's forced to interact with that person. that's why they call this a family disease. >> stahl: and you're trying to take the stigma away. >> kennedy: well, i'm trying to figure out how do we move this away from shame and stigma into a honest-to-god political movement. this isn't something esoteric about trying to take care of that alcoholic. "god, don't tell me those people need us to spend money on them?"
it's about taking care of all of us, because these are americans. they're dying every day. and they're our brothers and sisters. >> stahl: he says there's a pathology of silence about mental illness and addiction within families, especially his. in his book, he breaks what he calls the kennedy code of silence. >> kennedy: i don't tell in this book about my family stories as some way to talk about their story. this is my story. these experiences are embedded in me. they're who i am. >> stahl: you write-- i'm going to quote you from the book: "my father went on in silent desperation for much of his life, self-medicating and unwittingly passing his unprocessed trauma onto my sister, brother and me." >> kennedy: that's right. >> stahl: self-medicating? >> kennedy: yeah. >> stahl: so, that was the alcohol? >> kennedy: yeah, that was the alcohol. >> stahl: do you think he was an alcoholic?
>> kennedy: you know, i think he definitely had a problem with alcohol. i still, right now, lesley, have trouble talking about this. this is like breaking the family code here. i am now outside the family line. >> stahl: outside the line talking about his dad, but also about the silence surrounding his mother joan's alcoholism that he says he inherited. what was it like growing up with your mother? >> kennedy: it was so tense. my mother clearly would be inebriated and under the influence. she would walk around in the middle of the day, you know, in a terry cloth bathrobe. and the amazing thing is, here you have all of these leading policy makers in the country in and out of the house, coming in and out, watching this and no one's saying a word. the shame just becomes...
>> stahl: you felt the shame? >> kennedy: oh my god, i felt like, "oh, my god, they're going to see. mom, quick, let's get back into your room. don't let..." you know, i just understood this was not something that you want anyone to see. >> stahl: you write as a kennedy, and it's a unique position that you're in. i kept thinking, you know, probably most families would have acted the way your family did. >> kennedy: oh, i know so many of them who can't talk about their own family's illnesses. you get infected by the pathology of silence. and that is sickening to your soul. >> stahl: he writes that while his mother was crippled by her drinking, his father was reeling. >> president kennedy died at 1:00 pm, central standard time. >> stahl: teddy was devastated by the assassinations of his two brothers.
>> kennedy: when my uncle bobby was killed, it was like absolutely the floor dropped out for my father, absolutely the floor. because they got to be buddies in the united states senate. those were the glory days for my dad. you ever ask anyone, my dad was the happiest he ever was when he had his brother. then, his brother was killed. boom, over, show over. >> ted kennedy: those of us who loved him, and who take him to his rest today, pray that what he was to us, and what he wished for others, will someday come to pass for all the world. >> kennedy: my dad never got to grieve. he had to be there for the country. he had to be there for my family. he had to be there for my uncle bobby's 11 children, and john and caroline. >> stahl: tell me what's welling up in you. you didn't know bobby. you were one years old. >> kennedy: yeah, but i knew the pain that came from his having been killed, because i saw my
father kind of live in silent desperation for most of his life. >> stahl: are you weeping for him? >> kennedy: oh, yeah, of course, i do. no, i... i absolutely grieve for him. >> stahl: to this minute? >> kennedy: yeah. >> stahl: as people across the country wept for bobby, the second kennedy brother assassinated in five years, patrick writes that the family itself dealt with bobby's death the only way they knew how. >> kennedy: if you think we couldn't talk about my mom, we couldn't talk about my uncle bobby and the fact that his murder was still so present, you know, in all of our lives because it was unprocessed. >> stahl: you actually say that, because nobody talked about these things in the family, you were all kind of like zombies. you use that word, "zombies." >> kennedy: well, we were living in a limbo land where all of
this chaos, this emotional turmoil, was happening. and we were expected just to live through it. >> stahl: this is the first time a kennedy has been this open about the family secrets, these particular secrets. are you worried about how the family's going to react? >> kennedy: i know how some of them are going to react, because i've already... >> stahl: oh, they've seen the book? >> kennedy: yeah. i've showed the book. >> stahl: they're not pleased. >> kennedy: no. >> stahl: they're angry. >> kennedy: they're angry. >> stahl: chappaquiddick was something else they couldn't talk about. a year after bobby's assassination, teddy drove a car off a wooden bridge, drowning his young passenger, mary jo kopechne. he abandoned the scene and didn't tell the authorities till the next morning. this is where you had the conversation with your dad about... >> kennedy: this is where i had... >> stahl: ...chappaquiddick. >> kennedy: i guess you could call it a conversation. >> stahl: on the tenth
anniversary of the tragedy, teddy brought patrick, then 12, to this beach in hyannisport specifically to talk about chappaquiddick, but then didn't. >> kennedy: i learned more about this by, you know, looking in the books and newspapers and articles and on tv. >> stahl: do you think chappaquiddick had an impact on you? >> kennedy: i couldn't even talk about it. i was hostage to the family code that, no, don't say anything about it. anything you say, it's disloyal. it's against the family code, and it doesn't matter whether it's in a private therapy session. that psychiatrist could go out and tell somebody. >> stahl: the way patrick dealt with it was to drink. he was heavily into alcohol by the age of 13. and nobody in the family either knew or did anything? >> kennedy: you know, it was ubiquitous. there were... there was alcohol and there's parties all the time.
it wasn't like, oh, i stood out. >> stahl: by the early 1990s, his father's drinking had become so heavy, the family decided to stage an intervention. >> kennedy: i remember him closing the sliding doors. and then sitting down in his big blue suede chair and we all said, "we're worried about your drinking. you need to get help. it's affecting us. it's affecting the family." and, uh, he stood up, you know, opened the sliding door and walked out. >> stahl: not a word? >> kennedy: and then he wrote me a letter. and he basically said, you know "for the time being, you know, don't think of coming by to, you know, visit." >> stahl: oh, my word. he stopped talking to you? >> kennedy: that's... that's the way it came down. he felt that we really had no
place, no place whatsoever to question him. that's the defensive position of every alcoholic. "go mind your own business. back off!" that was the message. >> stahl: you know, there are people who thought of your father, "he thinks the rules don't apply to him," that he can drink and carouse as he was doing, because, you know, he's a kennedy. >> kennedy: yeah, there's no partying in there. there's no enjoyment. >> stahl: there was no enjoyment? >> kennedy: this is about relieving the pain. people have this mistaken notion that you get high. what you're really getting is relief from the low. >> stahl: when he was elected to congress in 1994, patrick was struggling not only with alcoholism, but with mental illnesses-- anxiety, depression,
and bipolar disorder. he was drinking and popping pills at the office. you put vodka in water bottles. >> kennedy: i put vodka in poland spring water bottles and i put oxycontin in bayer aspirin bottles. >> stahl: it all came to a crashing halt, literally, in may of 2006 when he plowed his car into a capitol hill police barricade at 3:00 in the morning. >> kennedy: the tv cameras start piling up outside my congressional office. i'm thinking, "this is over." >> stahl: the next day, he broke through another barrier-- the kennedy wall of silence, going public with the fact that he was an addict. his father was furious. >> kennedy: he just lashed out. "and these aren't things we talk about in public and, you know, blah, blah, blah." >> stahl: "teddy kennedy's son is the poster boy for addiction- - oh, no." >> kennedy: no, no, no. >> stahl: teddy's attitude, that addiction was shameful, was far
from unusual for his generation. but his attitude changed when patrick gave an impassioned speech on the house floor in support of his bill to expand health insurance coverage for addicts and alcoholics. >> kennedy: let's pass mental health parity. >> stahl: the speech persuaded teddy to support the bill. patrick writes that his father didn't feel he measured up, until then. this is a huge moment in your life. >> kennedy: in my life. i mean, who gets to have this experience of coming full circle? >> stahl: after his father died in 2009, patrick, at age 43, retired from congress. a year later, he got married for the first time to amy savell, a middle-school history teacher. >> kennedy: hold on to her, harp. >> stahl: they have three children, and one on the way. it wasn't until he committed to stop drinking that she agreed to marry him. >> kennedy: welcome to my house. >> stahl: today, they live here
in southern new jersey, where he directs his new political movement, what he calls the kennedy forum, from his study, sitting at president kennedy's old congressional desk. his regimen for staying sober includes an hour-long swim every morning, taking medication for bipolar disorder, and daily 12- step meetings. he'll celebrate his fifth year of sobriety next february on his father's birthday. >> kennedy: you're my man. >> stahl: but he doesn't kid himself. he realizes his diseases are chronic, and not curable. >> kennedy: i am an addict. i'll always be an addict. but i'm an addict in recovery. i count my days. it's one day at a time. >> stahl: is it hard? >> kennedy: oh, yeah. >> stahl: every day? >> kennedy: every day. some days more than others. but today's a good day.
>> i'm james brown with sports, chris ivory, jets win in london. washington, atlanta and carolina remain unbeaten in the nfc south. first time since 05, eight game losing streak, for more information go to cbssports. and storm. but mother nature can't stop us. the new 2016 ford explorer. be unstoppable. ♪
belsen, dachau. but nearly half of the six million jewish victims were executed in fields and forests and ravines, places that were not named and remain mostly unmarked today. they were slaughtered in mass shootings and buried in mass graves in the former soviet union where, until very recently, little had been done to find them. our story is about a man who's brought these crimes of the holocaust to light. he's not a historian or a detective or a jew. he's a french catholic priest named father patrick desbois. and for the past 13 years, he's been tracking down the sites where many of the victims lie, and searching for witnesses who are still alive, many of whom had never been asked before to describe the horrors they had seen more than 70 years ago. >> patrick desbois: the general order was to eliminate the last
jew, even the baby, even the old mommy. they never left anybody. >> logan: so it was a policy of total annihilation. >> desbois: total annihilation, and if hitler didn't lose the war, i think today will not be one jew alive. >> logan: father patrick desbois is on a mission across eastern europe to find hitler's hidden killing fields. before him lies a continent of extermination. these mass graves and extermination sites, many of them are invisible? >> desbois: yeah, totally invisible. under a corn field, under a house, under a tomato field, yeah, yeah. >> logan: and many of them would never be recorded. >> desbois: and never be recorded and still buried like animals. >> logan: we traveled with father desbois to the former soviet republic of moldova, where, in one day, he took us to four unmarked mass graves. in this field, he told us, 60 jews; beneath this farm, 100; above this city, under this
hill, 1,000. a thousand bodies-- do you think they're still here? >> desbois: yeah, yeah, they're still here. >> logan: thousands of eyewitnesses, millions of documents, and 15 years of investigating have led him to more than 1,700 execution sites. once in ukraine, under the supervision of a rabbi, he excavated one. jewish tradition forbids moving the dead once buried, and the evidence was just beneath the surface. >> desbois: and it was officially a place where no jew have been killed, and we found 17 mass graves. >> logan: and what did you find when you excavated...? >> desbois: you find everything. you see a mother with handing his boy until the end. and the boy try to go out. you see that another one was buried alive, so she had the mouth open because she was buried with the earth. >> logan: in june 1941, hitler invaded the soviet union. just behind his frontline troops
were mobile death squads known as the einsatzgruppen, whose job was to hunt down every last jew. they methodically entered villages, rounded up jewish families, and marched them to freshly dug graves. some of the remains are buried beneath this mound in lithuania. the assassins reached even the most remote corners, like hiriseni, a tiny village in moldova. so, when the killers came here, they really had only one purpose. >> desbois: only one goal-- kill the jews and the gypsies. only one goal always. >> logan: the village is virtually unchanged since the nazis stormed through here. father desbois's team had gone ahead of us, searching for eyewitnesses to a 70-year-old crime. they were led to an 85-year-old named gheorghe, still working in this vineyard. father desbois told us the first question they ask is always the same... >> desbois: "were you here during the war?"
and if the person says, "yes," say, "oh, you can help us." >> logan: gheorghe was 11 years old then, and he still remembers what he witnessed. >> gheorghe ( translated ): as soon as they came, they locked everyone up. i saw them taking them away. >> logan: he asked him where the jews were killed. >> gheorghe: it's a ravine over there. come and see, if you want. >> logan: so what you're learning here is completely unrecorded? >> desbois: yeah, if we didn't come, we'll never know they killed jews. these jews would have never been counted as dead, never known, and the mass grave is totally unknown. >> logan: gheorghe brought us down this road where, he said, all the jewish families from the village were taken. he told us the day of the shooting, he was tending to cows nearby. now, 70 years later, we watched as he traced the victims steps to the edge of the ravine. >> gheorghe: the jews were facing the ditch, so they were shooting them in the back of
their heads or their backs to fall into the ditch. they were shooting them as if they were dogs. >> logan: he said it was a beautiful day exactly... >> desbois: a beautiful day... >> logan: ...like this one. >> desbois: ...like today. >> logan: with the sunshine. >> desbois: with the sunshine, yeah. >> logan: when you're doing this, when you're here and in a place like this, do you ever stop and think, "how did i get here?" >> desbois: no, always, i say to people, "finally, we found you. finally, we came back." >> logan: father desbois leads no congregation-- he considers his search for these jewish victims his calling. you're not your typical priest. >> desbois: i don't know if there is a typical priest. ( laughs ) i think everybody has to make his way. the pope also is not a typical pope. but he's a pope. and i'm not a typical priest. but i am a priest. >> logan: with the blessing of his cardinal and the vatican, he created, in 2004, the organization yahad-in-unum-- "together as one." >> desbois: we began, so the
first thing is to get the map... >> logan: based in paris, his team begins by combing through millions of pages of german documents, comparing them to soviet archives that only became available after the collapse of the soviet union. they search for clues that lead them to villages where witnesses point them to mass graves. they always record and archive the witness testimonies. >> logan: to date they have recorded over 4,000 witnesses, who were children at the time. >> logan: many were recruited by the nazis or local police to dig the mass graves, or to take the gold teeth, jewelry, and clothing of the victims.
>> logan: what have we learned about the holocaust that we didn't know before you began your investigations? >> desbois: i learned a lot about humanity. i learned everybody can be a killer, anybody can be a victim. i learned that you like to see other people dying in front of you, killed by other people, when you are sure you will not be killed. >> logan: it was a dramatic finding-- that villagers chose to watch people being lined up and murdered, a revelation he would never have come to were it not for his grandfather, claudius desbois.
he was held as a prisoner of war in a nazi camp in the ukrainian village of rawa ruska. but he never wanted to talk about it. father desbois was drawn to the village to find out what happened there. he made repeated trips, but no one would talk to him, until one night when the mayor took him to the edge of the forest where 50 elderly villagers were waiting. >> desbois: and he said, "patrick, i bring you at the mass grave of the last 1,500 jews of rava-ruska," like in a movie. >> logan: one by one, they told you their stories, what they witnessed. >> desbois: 50. >> logan: 50 of them. >> desbois: and me, i couldn't bear it. i stopped them, i... everyone in the middle. i say, "ah, it's enough. it's enough. the pieces of woman in the tree, it's enough. it's enough for you." and they cried, and they went. i found finally what my grandfather never say. i say, "they shot the jews in public, and everybody knew. and surely my grandfather saw that." and... but that's it.
i was in total shock. >> logan: you believed that the jews were killed in secret. >> desbois: yeah, because everybody told me, and i have read many books about the secrets of holocaust. and in soviet union, everybody told me they knew nothing and... because it was secret. >> logan: what he learned disturbed him. the killings were spectacles. they took place in broad daylight in front of entire villages. >> desbois: they were fighting to have a good place like... like for circus. >> logan: there's no way you couldn't have known. >> desbois: not only that, but they were running when they heard when they were killing jews, to see, to try to catch a coin, to check out your clothes, to take a picture. they wanted to be there. >> logan: this photo of a mass shooting is from the imperial war museum archives in london, dated september 14, 1941. >> desbois: and it's a ditch. here we have a woman with a child. >> logan: you don't see any spectators, but father desbois suspected the crowd was just outside the frame.
he followed the picture to the town of dubassary, and it brought him to the home of 81- year-old anatoli, who was eight back then. he said he was at the massacre, alongside his mother. >> anatoli ( translated ): we were standing somewhere here. and here were the trenches, here they were falling. >> logan: the carnage lasted two weeks. dimitri, then 16, said he was there, too. he told us he watched from a tree as the nazis and collaborators fired on groups of 20 people at a time. >> desbois: and he thinks how many jews have been killed like that? >> translator: it was about 18- and-a-half thousand people. >> logan: a number much higher than the official records, which doesn't surprise father desbois, who says the death tolls are often under-reported. the bodies are right behind dimitri's house in these 11 mass
graves, one of the few jewish sites in eastern europe that's marked and protected. >> desbois: i never saw one like that among the 1,700 extermination sites where i've been. >> logan: no one has shined more light on this dark chapter than father desbois, according to paul shapiro, the director of advance studies at the u.s. holocaust memorial museum, who also sits on yahad's scientific board. >> paul shapiro: the method that he's used, extraordinary. we can understand minute by minute what happened in hundreds of localities where before we just had fog. >> logan: how reliable is his work? >> shapiro: he has opened the door to the use of multiple sources to understand what really happened on the ground in a big part of europe. >> desbois: the babies were shot, too. >> logan: we found father desbois a cautious and skeptical interviewer.
>> dimitri ( translated ): when a woman with a baby would approach the pit, they forced her to hold the baby in sight. first, they shot the baby and then her. >> logan: he never judged or showed emotion as he listened to the darkest accounts of humanity. father desbois insists that every killing site they find is memorialized by recording the gps coordinates. they never physically mark the graves because, he says, people would loot them. father desbois believes, when his work is finished, the number of jewish victims will total more than has been previously documented. but the number, he says, is less important than giving meaning to their lives. sometimes in a small village, he'll find a witness, like 80- year-old anatoli, who remembers not only the death of his jewish neighbors, but their names. >> anatoli: brick, gorovich, shurman, and folst.
>> desbois: it's like if he was waiting for us in 70 years and now we are here. every time i come with my team, i say, "they are waiting for us." >> logan: it did seem like he was waiting for you. >> desbois: yes, like the dead. >> is there a connection between the nazis of world war ii and the isis of today? father desbois says yes. go to 60minutesovertime.com. sponsored by viagra. viagra helps guys with erectile dysfunction get and keep an erection. talk to your doctor about viagra. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach and abnormal vision. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing.
>> whitaker: in the mail this week, comments on a man who would be president, and one who already is: scott pelley's interview with presidential candidate donald trump also had critics: i'm bill whitaker. we'll be back next week with another edition of "60 minutes." tomorrow, be sure to watch "cbs this morning." whatever you're doing, plan well and enjoy life... ♪ or, as we say at
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