tv Face the Nation CBS November 19, 2017 8:30am-9:01am PST
captioning sponsored by cbs >> dickerson: today on "face the nation." despite chaos in the capitol over sexual harassment scandals, tax cut legislation races through congress at a blistering pace. while senate republicans may be clear they do not want alabama's roy moore to join their club. >> obviously not fit to be in the united states senate. and we've looked at all the options, try to prevent that from happening. >> democrats confront a problem in their rank as former funny man turned senator al franken is accused of inappropriate advances before he was elected. president stayed mum on moore. >> mr. president do you believe roy moore's accusers? >> took to twit tore criticize democrat franken despite mr. trump's own history of allegations from women citing improper conduct. no double standard here says
white house press secretary sarah sanders. >> senator franken admitted wrongdoing, the president hasn't. >> dickerson: spectacle is not slowing progress on the mammoth tax reform bill which passed the house. >> thank you. going really well. >> dickerson: but faces less certain future in the senate where tempers are already short. >> tax cut sell really is not for the middle lags it's for the rich. >> i've been here working my whole stinkin' career for people who don't have a chance. i really resent anybody saying that i'm just doing this for the rich. give me a break. >> with all due respect i get sick and tired of -- >> mr. -- how many times -- >> i get a little tired of that crap. if we brought together we can build this country -- >> dickerson: will the middle class really benefit from this tax package we'll talk with budget director mick mulvaney. plus arkansas republican senator tom colt ton who is pushing
provision to end the obamacare mandate in the tax bill. california democratic congresswoman jackie speier who is leading the effort to change attitudes about sexual harass the. also have plenty of political analysis, it's all coming up on "face the nation." good morning, welcome to "face the nation." i'm john dickerson. minnesota democrat al franken stayed out of sight so far this week end as senators from both parties and franken himself have called for an ethics investigation into charges that he made unwanted advances towards model leann tweeden during a 2006uso trip. as for roy moore with the familiar alabama special election scheduled three weeks from tuesday, it will be up to the voters to determine whether or not he'll make it to the senate. we begin with cbs news correspondent dean ron who'd is in birmingham. dean, what are the chances that mr. moore goes to washington? >> well, they're not very good, john. if the birmingham news has anything to say about it.
there you see their editorial today, reject roy moore. they found him unfit on many levels beyond just the improprieties that are alleged with younger women in his days as a prosecutor when he was in his 50s. more over this editorial endorses deb jones, his democratic opponent. it is just the latest attempt to block moore's path to washington. judge roy moore, self styled champion of the ten commandments has claimed the support of evangelicals in his race for the senate but some in that community were pushing back this weekend. the reverend said moore's world view made him unfit even before the allegations of impropriety emerged. moore image ins the struggle for equality in america as a story of loss. >> no one got to ask moore about
that or much of anything else because he spent much of the week dodging questions. no elaboration on his defiant stands against his women accusers. >> scurrilous, false, charges, not charge, allegations which i have emphatically denied time and time again. >> his lawyers try to discredit those accusers in one case doubting moore's inscription on a woman's year book around the time she says he attacked her. >> the year book so we can determine is it genuine or a fraud. >> and as his wife said on friday he's in for the long haul. >> he will not step down. he will not stop fighting for the people of alabama. >> moore's core support estimated at no more than 0% of eligible voters here, they are deeply committed as columnist steve flowers explained. >> moore's people will not, the
75-80-year-old guy he's circling his calendar. >> it's a political cliche but it is true in alabama, turn out will be everything. yet few people think the turn out will exceed more than 20% of eligible voters which could provide a window of opportunity for roy moore and his very, very dedicated followers. john? >> dickerson: dean reynolds for us in birmingham, thanks, dean. if roy moore does get elected, next move up to his colleagues we're joined by one potential republican colleague, senator tom cotton of arkansas. i want to talk taw about tax reform in a moment. let's talk about this moore situation for a moment. corey gardner one of your 8:00 leagues in charge of getting republicans elected said that they should ex spell moore if he wins, would you support that? >> john, first let me take a step back from roy moore speak
in general about sexual harassment and sexual assault. very serious matter, has no place on the job. no plausible our society. i think sadly too many women have faced that over the course of their lives. it's not a partisan issue, there are misbehaving men in both democratic and republican parties, unfortunately there are female victims. it's happened in your industry, in hollywood, in business. so i think it's important that women feel if they have been subject to sexual harassment that they can come forward now. the harvey weinstein allegations broke about a month or so ago that's a good thing. that's a good change in the norms and expectations of our society. as far as roy moore goes i'm not going to speculate about what may happen should he win. we're three weeks out from the election, he made it pretty clear this week that he's not going to step aside. as you said in your intro up to the people of alabama to make that decision. >> you said you wouldn't encourage people of alabama to vote for him.
what is better for senate republicans if roy moore wins comes to washington as republican or if a democrat wins? >> what is better for senate republicans and the american people is that we focus on the work ahead of us which is a tax bill that cuts middle class taxes, taxes on business and repeals the hated obamacare mandate. the people of alabama will make the decision. >> dickerson: let me ask you about this form you're talking about that have changed because of this change in american culture which is going across corporations, media, congress. al franken faces a moment now, what is the emerging standard in terms of how you assess these accusations that come forward for somebody? >> i think it's hard to generalize about all cases in general. because each case there is particular different kinds of allegations, different kinds of conduct, different kinds of evidence. it's important that we take the issue of sexual harassment and sexual assault seriously and that we take each case on its individual merit and eval valuate carefully.
>> dickerson: on this new norms, lot of people said, well there were dozen or so accusers for president trump should these new norms cause reevaluation of those who came forward said that he had assaulted them or -- >> what happened in the middle of the campaign, american people had their say on that as well. i think what is important is that we take all of these things seriously and that we move forward and each individual case we have people who are charged with weighing the evidence, whether it's court of law, sexual harassment case, senate ethics committee as al frank enhas said. >> dickerson: it seems to me position is, the voters spoke, that's it for the president. why wouldn't that be the case with moore? voters speak in washington. >> that will be an important decision if the people of alabama will make. again, if he comes to the senate because the people of alabama elect him and someone files a complaint with the senate ethics committee as they have done with al fran en, up to the ethics committee all the individual
senators to make a decision based on their findings and recommendations. i wouldn't to speculate about hypotheticals in the future. >> dickerson: let's move on to tax reform. 13 million people will be without coverage if the individual mandate is removed as you'd like to see in this tax cut plan. what happens to those 123 1/3rd million? >> john, remember what the hated obamacare mandate is. it finds american family, insurance that made unaffordable in the first place. this bill doesn't cut that single dime from medicaid, doesn't cut a single dime from the insurance subsidy or change single regulation. it says the irs cannot fine you if you cannot afford health insurance. this has no i am pact on anyone who wants to get health insurance. under obamacare, individual exchanges are or under medicaid expansion. simply says that working families and poor americans because fur out of five americans who pay this fine make less than $50,000 will no longer be fined for not being able the afford their insurance.
>> dickerson: the people won't get insurance they will get si sick, go to emergency rooms, prices will increase. premiums will increase also because insurers will be insuring a sicker pool of people. so you got premiums going up which -- what's your answer to that? >> my answer is that we that we need to solve the problems that obama made worse. we worked over the summer, we failed, i wish that wasn't the case with a fashion bill now that will repeal the most hated and unpopular the individual mandate no, sir more than a tax on working families and poor americans. i hope next year we return to health care, but focused on this tax bill. >> dickerson: also a tax if they're premiums go up, a little bit of middle class tax but but if people's premiums go up doesn't that negate the tax cut? >> that's not right. every income group under the senate bill will see a tax cut. now, if you voluntarily choose not to get your insurance through obamacare premiums then the federal government will not
be paying tax subsidy not to you individually but insurance company. that's a result of voluntary choice that you make based on your own family's needs and finances. >> dickerson: the joint committee found that these tax cuts expire and middle income will see the tax cut go away. but also lisa seems to have different view. if the tax put is offset by higher premiums, you haven't delivered a benefit. so she seems to think that removing individual mandate does have affect that negates -- >> senator mr. company ski has been a leader, part that goes with exploration for oil and gas in the arctic circle. she's also said that she doesn't have any preconditions on this vote and, remember, vast majority of people on the obamacare exchanges are getting subsidies. if their premiums do go up they're still going to get higher subsidies. also, let's look what premiums have happened over the last four years with the mandate in place. more than doubled since 2013.
they are projected to go up by 37% next year. obamacare is already failing with the mandate, we shouldn't be fining poor people and working american families because they can't afford the insurance that's going up. >> dickerson: senator mr. company ski says she's does have preconthat the insurance needs to be stabilized in order for her to vote on the tax cut. let me ask you one quick question before we go. the air force general, john hyten head of the strategic command said he would push back on order from president trump to launch nuclear strikes. you're on the armed services committee, the push back on nuclear strike that he considered to be illegal. what is your take on that? >> john, since the dawn of the nuclear age we've recognized the practical reality that the president has to hold in his hands the decision to use our nuclear weapons. if there's a first strike against the united states the president has a matter of minutes not hours, not days but matter of minutes to make that decision. it simply doesn't make sense to have congress involved in the matter. however, what we hope to do is to be able to deter any country
from ever launching that kind of trike us whether it's north korea or russia or china or-near nuclear power. that's so important that president trump largely succeeded on his trip to eric last week to put more pressure on kim young unnot to use those nuclear weapons in. >> in non-retaliatory situation you're okay in the way the system works? >> it's never been the policy of the united states to renounce the first use of nuclear weapons. it wasn't president obama's policy either. i hope that we never have to employ our nuclear weapons. but in a non-retaliatory situation, sure, a president has hours or days to make a considered deliberate decision that is why he has joint chiefs and commanders and strategic command. >> dickerson: senator cotton, thank you so much. >> thank you, john. dickerson: the debate over sexual harassment moved into the halls of congress after california democratic congresswoman jockey speier went public with her own experience
of unwand sexual advances as a young capitol hill staffer. speier's revelation inspired leann tweed tone come forward with her allegations against senator franken. this week, congresswoman speier introduced legislation in the house aimed at fighting sexual harassment in congress. and she joins us this morning from palm springs, california. congresswoman, start with something you wrote, you said that it's clear the good old boys mentality of capitol hill still persist after all these years. it is perhaps the worst i've seen in 0 years of working on these issues. old boys club was bad you're saying it's worse now? >> well, i think it's worse in part because we have ha system in place that allows for the harasser to go unchecked. doesn't pay for the settlement himself and is never identified. the office of compliance to which victim must apply or complain is a place that has really been an enabler of sexual
harassment for these many years because of the way it's constructed. >> dickerson: as congress and the larger culture tries to figure out what the standard is for treating accusers who come forward, something better than what has been where they have been blocked, but also something that doesn't allow false accusations how does that standard get determined in your mind? >> well, first of all, we have to make sure that a complaint is taken seriously. and that the person who is the victim is not somehow tortured or intimidated into not filing the complaint. that's what it is right now in congress. there's a one-month period where your counseled, another month where you go to mandatory mediation you have to sign a non-disclosure agreement at the front end. a month of cooling off period, that is truly ridiculous, it's important for us to remember, too, john, that over 890% of -- 90% of those who have been vehicles wallly harassed or
sexually assaulted are telling the truth. all these victims who have come forward with roy moore or with the president or with al franken, all of them i think have to be -- we expect to believe them because for the most part they are telling the truth. there's no gain for them to come forward lots of down sides, frankly. >> dickerson: what's your view about '-evaluating the situation, you mentioned the president, the white house seems to suggest and senator cotton suggests that the voters knew about this they voted for him so it's an issue that's in the past. how do you see it? >> i think there is some truth to that. if the president was running today, i bet he would not be elected because i think we have had a huge cultural shift that 40 years in the making, but i think all of us are grateful now that there is a new day for women in the workplace where they do not have to put up with sexual advances that are unwand
that they do not have to live and work in a hostile work environment. and that's going to be good for all of us in the workplace. >> dickerson: as that cultural shift takes place, some people have argued, some democrats and liberals argued that reevaluation of bill clinton's presidency is required, what do you think about that in order to be clear about what the new standard is and use elements from the past that are well-known. >> first of all let's remember that he did face impeachment. it wasn't as fit was just tossed to the side. he faced impeachment. i think that the victims who came forward were not treated as they should have been, they should have been believed because as i pointed out, most people who come forward are telling the truth. >> dickerson: in the case of al franken what is your feeling about that, there have been columnist that have written that basically again, liberals have said he must leave the senate in
order to -- for democrats to retain credibility or open to the charge that democrats apply it when it comes to republicans, that are more generous when it comes to their own team. >> i think it's appropriate for the ethics committee to do an investigation, senator franken has actually agreed to that as well. i also think that it has to be determined if there's a pattern of sexual harassment. incidents have to be severe or they have to be ones that happen over a period of time. i think we'll wait and see what the investigation determines. >> dickerson: is that instructive distinction then, pattern versus specific mistake in terms of what might penalize somebody but be the difference between penalizing and expulsion? >> that's what the courts have held with sexual harassment cases. if there's a pattern then sexual harassment is found to be in existence. if it's a one event and maybe a
conversation versus sexual assault or an unwanted sexual advance, it really depends on the circumstances in all of these cases. >> dickerson: final question on different topic on tox, in california voted for the house tax cut bill in which deductibility of state and local taxes is no longer allowed. they were told at least one of them was told, that will get fixed later and californians who have had taxes will be able to deduct them. what is your -- do you believe that? >> no, i don't believe it. i think for all of those members who basically have handed their constituents a $10,000 tax increase that's what here talking about. when you take the state and local taxes and the property taxes, and the mortgage deduction that is reduced the 500,000 is a huge hit for every single california family. >> dickerson: congresswoman, thanks for being with us. we'll be back in one minute with
>> dickerson: we're back with mick mulvaney the director
of white house office of management and budget. mr. director, i want to start with the individual mandate. something the president wants, it's in the bill now, part in the senate just make the numbers add up. if it was taken out would the president be okay with maybe cutting that corporate rate to 22% all the way down to 20 to make up that money that they need in the senate? >> no. i don't think so. i don't think anybody doubts where the president is on repeal or replace. the white house would love to see obamacare taken apart all at once, bit by bit. however we can do it. that being said, there's a couple of things that the president has been very clear on from the very beginning. number one, middle class ordinary americans working folks have to pay less and has to be simpler. number two, that corporate tax rate has to be as low as possible. virtually wanted it at 15%. we agreed with house senate leadership to go to 20% as part of the early discussions here. i don't think you'll see us interest in going above 20%:
so, i think at the end of the day, john, what we're interested in is the best tax bill that can pass. if a good tax bilk pass with that obama mandate, great. if it needs to come out in order for that good tax bill to pass, we can live with that as well. >> dickerson: let me look at those two things, middle class tax cut and corporate tax. there's no question as you've said the president wants it at 20. nobody ever doubted whether corporations will get that reduction to 20 really in all the conversation i've seen. in the middle class it's fuzzier, used to be that they would say everybody in the middle class get a tax cut. now the joint committee shown that 24 1/4 million because. sunset provision, they're not going to get tax cut. taxes are going to go up. it seems when you look at the way this is played out corporations are so solid, nobody saying they're not going to get what they're going to get. the middle class is not so solid. it's awfully fuzzy. isn't that the reverse of what elected donald trump? >> i think what you're seeing, scratching the surface, welcome
to my world. now dealing with the world of senate scoring, keep in mind go back to the beginning of this process one of the big things that happened just the house and the senate passed the same budget, they're allowed to use reconciliation to pass this bill in the senate with only 50 votes. in order to do that, they give great deal of control to the congressional budget office they have to say it source a certain way. the only reason that you're seeing these middle class tax cuts supposedly expire after five years, part of it at least, to score it in a certain fashion. take this round pg try to shove it into a square hole. no one really wants those things to happen. think it's good policy it becomes permanent like most of the bush tax cuts did. >> dickerson: the other side because those rules are in place for a reason. but we got to take a break. we'll be -- more with mick mulvaney when we come back. stay with us. it lets you know where your data lives, down to the very server. it keeps your insights from prying eyes, so they're used by no one else but you.
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