tv Charlie Rose PBS October 22, 2011 12:00am-1:00am PDT
that the u.s. war in iraq will end at the end-of-this year with the end of the withdrawal of the american troops. we continue this evening talking about the global ecomy and about jobs in america with steve case. he serves on the president's council on jobs and competitiveness. >> i think there is something unique about america. and i think everybody around the worl understands it. the entrepreneurship, that silicon valley is a place but it's also an idea. and it's an idea that inspires people all around the world. how do we build on that and hodo we get so of the regulation out of the way that makes it difficult to get these companies going. how do we make sure people are able to access in this new global world, the best possible talent. how do we create the incentives aroun capital. >> rose: we continue looking at the global economy and
the new world order with sureyya ciliv, of turkcell and a prominent member of the turkish business establishment. >> turkey is the 6th largest economy in europe and it was growing 11%, number one fastest growing economy in the world, second quarter, second fastest growing at 8.8%. so you have a large size economy growing fast, isn't europe better off joining forces, having access to these markets. >> rose: we conclude our look at the global economy with a conversation with azim premji from india. he is the chairman of the wipro. >> i'm particarly optimisticbout india's future. and i attribute that to the entrepreneurship of india, to the extremely-- democracy which is across all levels of educion. i think that's fundamental to a successful society in the long run. so whatever aberrations you see now, whatever issues on governance wt you are seeing now which are hitting the press and hitting the media, i think it's something which is in a way
additional funding provided by these funders: captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> we begin this evening with an announcement today, this afternoon by president obama that america's war in iraq will end by the end of this year. here is what the president said. >> today, i can report that as promised, the rest of our troops in iraq will come home by the end of the year. after nearly nine years, america's war in iraq will be over. over the next two months our
troops in iraq, tens of thousands of them, will pack up their gear and board convoys for the journey home. the last american soldier will cross the border out of iraq with their heads held high, proud of their success and knowing that the american people stand united in our support for our troops. that is how america's military effort in iraq will end. but even as we mark this important milestone, we're also moving into a new phase in the relationship between the united states and iraq. as of january 1st, and in keeping with our strategic framework agreement with iraq, it will be a normal relatiship between sovereign nations. an equal partnership based on mutual interests and mutual respect. this will be a strong and enduring partnership. with our diplomats and civilian advisors in the lead, we'll help iraqis strengthen institutions that are just, representative, and accountable.
we'll build new ties of trade and of commerce. culture and education that unleash the potential of the iraqi people. we'll partner with an iraq that contributes to regional curity and peace, just as we insist that other nations respect iraq's sovereignty. as i told prime minister maliki, we will continue discussions on how we might help iraq train andquip its forsts. again, just as we offer training and assistance to countries around the world. after all, there will be some difficult days ahead for iraq. and the united states will continue to have an interest in an iraq that is stable, secure and self-reliant. >> rose: the president pointed out today that this ending of the war in iraq for u.s. troops is the fulfillment of a campaign promise he made during the 2008 campaign. we'll have more about the implications of this for the united states and for the future of the relationship between iraq and the united states next week.
steve case is here, he'she founder and former c.e.o. of aol, now of revolution health and srt-up america, a public private partnership aimed at po meeting entrepreneurship. earlier this month case reported to president obama-- obama on job creation. we want to talk about that and i am pleased to have him back at the table. that is sort of the gamut of what you are doing since you left aol. >> yeah, it has been a decade. i stepped down as the c.e.o. of aol a decade ago and spent mos of my time with revolution backing consumer companies that are entrepreneurial and have the potential to kind of change the world as we have done with aol. >> rose: how long have you known the president. >> a few years, i must say going back long term we were in high school together in hawaii. i was a senior when he was a freshman. but it was a big school. >> rose: did younow him. >> i didn't really know him, i recall playing basketball. we kind of passed a little bit in the halls am but we certainly weren't close. and then when he became a
senator and moved to washington, i spent some time with him and since then obviously since he became presiden spent some time with him. >> rose: tell me about this jobs, about the creation of this commission. >> well, the president put this in place in january, jeff immelt, c.e.o. of ge chairs it and it is a great group of folks, 24 people that are reay focused on trying to recommend things to the president all over the country. >> ros all c.e.o.s. >> many current c.e.o.s and then labor andthen some folks from educational institutions. it's a pretty good mix. but there is a recognition that whave a js problem. and to the credit the white house, he said l's get some outside advice. it's very nonpartisan. people bring a lot of different perspectives and the recommendations that were made i think really cover the gamut. but i was particularly focused on the recommendations related to high-growth companies because entrepreneurship is really the secret sauce that built america and we have to redouble our commitment to our nation's entrepreneurs. >> rose: how do you go out
and find the ideas? what is the mechanism and process for a commission like this with such high profile people to get the kind of information to make the kind of decisions so it can make recommendations to the president and the nation >> well, what we did this high growth sub committee, the part i chaired, is we decided we didn't need new ideas. there are great ideas out ere that all sides have put forth over the past few years. we went about collecting all those ideas and getting outside experts and advisors including like mckenzie to prioriti and really understand what could move the needle in term of job creaon and that's the process we have been working on for the last few months. and some of the recommendations we made ally, some were this the administration can do on their own. some things private sector can do on itown and some things require congressional support and bell's really be pushing the weeks ahead for bipartisan support on some of those things. some related to winning the global ballot on talent which implicates our immigratn policy, the access to cap sol-- capital.
>> rose: stop and go down the list. one the immigration battle. why can't this country recognize and why can't the congress recognize, you know, that if people who come here and go into our universities might want to stay here, it's not in our interest for them to leave. >> no, it's insane. we basically attract some of the best and brightest through our universities. and once we give them these great educations and a degree we kick them out and force them to go to some other country and start companies or build companies there to compete with us. so it' crazy. i think everybody understands that winning that global battle be on talent is critical. it unfortunately is caught up on this broader date on immigration, comprehensive immigration reform. anit is complicated and sensitive. but we need to unbundle this piece on high skilled workers, engineers, and entrepreurs and focus on that because that is one of the key parts of winning this battle on talent and getting this job creation gine poving. look at statistics, kaufman foundation tracks this. for the last three decades 40 million jobs have been created by high-growth compies. those companies are often
started by immigrants either first generation or second generation immigrants. that's always been the story of america. the story of pioneers and people without have come here and taken risk and started not just companies but entire industries. and we've lost sight of that. so we really need to-- . >> rose: and they come he because ey thought the environment to be able to do that, pursue their dreams in a meritocracy would enable them to succeed. >> correct. and america was always about that risk-taking. people coming here in th first place were taking a risk coming here. people without came to ellis island as immigrants were taking a risk. people who then moved kind of west as part of the movement towards california so the gold rush, they al were taking risks. that's always been par of what has driven america and lead us to create these breakthrough ideas and entire industries. and we need to make sure we don't lo sight of that. the job creation engine of this country really is mostly around entrepreneurship. it's not just business general. if you look at the data, big business, the fortune 500, of course they are important. small business, the main street restaurants and dry cleaners, of course they are
important. but the real leverage is these high growth companies that really can create significant jobs. >> do they employ a lot of people. >> first of all, high-growth companies cut across all sectors. it's not just about technology. so services and manufacturers, even the start-up make partnership, we got the founder of under armour and athletic wear company or fred smith founder of federal express, the transportation company, all these folks areart of that board of the start-u america partners. 's been recognition that there are many different industries that can be part of this high growth engine. but it you look specifically at technology, sometimes people miss the brder ripple effect, the ecosystem effect. for example, since 1990 i think we had a hundred employees. by the end of the decade i think we had close to 10,000 employs. face book recently put out data. i think in terms of the number of employees, about 5,000 but they said the facebook ecosystem created over 200,000 jobs. so these technology coanies have a broader impact. you can't just look at what those specific companies are
but more importantly, as we think about getting our nation back to work and reducing unemployment, it's around high growth enterprises across the landscape, to the just knowledge, to the just in silicon valley. it's really every sectoand every region of the country. >> where are are the people who are going to man those jobs and are we doing enough to train them to be able to handle those jobs. >> no, we'reot. the education system is everybody talked about for a long time is not up to the challenge right now in terms of maintaining our competitiveness in a global world. so trainin people more effectively in school and retraining people later in their careers is very important. but the core is making sure these entrepreneurs have these ideas and get these companies started and were able to give them access to capital and help them scale, give them the ability to track the talent they need in this global marketplace, make it little easier for them to go public by is another area where growth often happs after you go public. data says 90% of jobs ar created after ipos, to the
before ipos. so there are all these different layers that we've identified and there is no silver bulle no magic thing, you just kind of wave your hands or do one thing and suddenly the entrepreneurship is flourishing and job creation engine is moving. it's going to require a sustained effort really over a decade of every sector in terms of what the white house can dorb, the private sector andongress people. we have to focus on this. it really is i think the key to unlocking this next wave. >> hedge funds and private equity companies contributed to this. >> you the area where you really have the greatest leverage in terms of job creation and economic growth is the folks like venture capitalists that are backing these young companies and helping them bring to scale. start-ups or later stage kind of growth companies, speedups. a lot of the financial sector has more much a trading mentality. they might own a stock f 10 seconds. we want people that n something for ten years. >> rose: some people say that is a real problem because people can engage in financial transactions and financial engineering, and
because they can make so much money, that the best and brightest from the best schools, wherever they are, not just ivy league, state schools, all kinds of schools are going to wall street rather than creating these companies. >> well, there has been some of that, no question. er the last decade. i think that's shifting a little bit. i think people-- . >> rose: because of a collapse or reevaluation. >> some of it is financial sector, is not quite as strong as it was say five years ago, still quite strong. partly becse people recognize they do want to make stuff. they do want to build something and do want to be part of one of these growth companies. and somethin like sve jo who when he passed away, the fact that they are not nation, the world really was mourning his death was in part because of his innovation but also because he is a great entrepreneur, he built something great and people want to be building something great that really can make a difference in the world. >> rose: the president's job bill, give me your assessment, that is around the country every day trying to sell. >> well, there's really-- when the jobs council was put if place, we
were really divided into three parts. the first part was what could be done in the short run to stimulate what is a challenging economy, less than 2% growth, and also try to deal with the 9% unemployment rate. so how do you kind of get the grth up a little bit and get the unemployment down a little bit. that's the first effort. the second effort was how do you over the next three to five years put in policies that really create a sustainable opportunity to grow jobs and not just a shorterm kind of way. and the third is what sts do you take really over the next decade that really put us on the right footing in terms of our competitiness obally. the jobs bill really focused on the first. what immediate actions could be taken that can stimulate the economy and great jobs, but the focus of my efforts around entrepreneurship are the seetary piece what can be done now and needs to be done now to put the framework in place to driv growth over the nexthree five years. my understanding is that the jobs bill ving not passed is now going to be broken into a vaert of different
things. >> rose: my understanding too. >> and one piece will be around, entrepreneurship and the challenge and spending a lot of time on it now is to try to build bipartisan support for the specific recommendations we've done, put in place regarding talent and capital and ipos and so forth much and i think everybody recognize jobs in the economy matters. there is a growing recognition that the hydro companies is really the key part of that. and the policies that are being recommended make sense so the question is can people come together. i think they can. >> rose: what's necessary to kick start this economy. to get this economic recovery, not sliding back but moving forward. >> it's entrepreneurship. again, if you look at the data all the net jobs over the last three decades have been created by these high-growth companies so what can we do to make it easier to start companies and scale companies and that's really been the focus of the jobs council. we get that right. it shouldn't be a surprise. parker didn't just become the leading economy in the world by accident. fortune 500 companies don't just automatically become fortune 500 companies. they start as start-ups and
these companies get nurtured and many failut some succeed, and when they succeed, th's what creates the jobs and creates our economic, you know, wealth as a society. so recognizing that the entrepreneurs have built america, it really is the story of america is the story of entrepreneurship and we need to get back to focusing on that and not just sort of take it r granted and think of business in sort of an aggregate way but peel it back and focus particularly on policies that can help entrepreneurs scale their companies, create jobs, create economic growth in a sustainable way. >> let me-- bring to the foretwo criticisms. one from robert reich. nobody should expect this group to come up with the innovative ways of investing in the american workforce and generating to the only pore jobs but higher wages. that's just not what these big companies do. >> well, i'm not a big company, i'mnentrepreneur and there are other people on the council-- john, peins orsaberg of
facebook that i think do bring an entrepreneurial perspective and i think it's great that people are taking some time, post people have busy schedules, to help in this effort of trying to put a framework in place tt hopefully can get bipartisan support and get our economy moving. >> rose: okay, here is the other part of the criticism. it has been pointed out that the c.e.o.s of american express, and boeing sit on the president's counciland all of tho councils have out-- companies have cut jobs in 2011,. >> i can'talk to the specifics because i n't know what isappening with those companies. i think, i do knofrom the work on the johns council they are spending a lot of time, jeff immelt, trying to make sure we put the right framework in place. at the se time theye running global companies and jobs, for all the companies-- . >> rose: and most growth is overseas. >> most of the growth is overseas. so if the u.s. is growing 2% an china is growing 9%, will you end up having more jobs created there. the question is not criticizing that, it's recognizing that as the reality in a global world. the question is how do we get the 23% up to 3 or 4%
and the key to me is focusing on entrepreneurship. >> rose: can america reestablish its manufacturing base by a new kind of manufacturing. >> yes. there actually are a lot of interesting entrepreneurial stories around the nation, around manufacturing services and other countrie countries-- industries. the challenge has always been how do you create these productsnd then figure out ways to manufacture them here as opposed to manufacturing them elsewhere. apple as we just talked about is a great successful company, started manufacturing in the united states, ended up moving their manufacturing to china because it was more cost effective. so what policy is going to be put in place to make it easier to build those companies here. there are a lot of things around regulations that are being looked at because --. >> rose: who is doing that. who is looking and trying to find those and create those policies. >> that's part of what the jobs council. >> rose: that is what i am asking. >> there is a group, it's not the part i'm directly involved in but a group focused on these other sectors of the economy like
manufacturing and how do you create the right momentum around those industries. >> rose: do you think you're here at this table and that's why wexist in order to address these thgs that we think are important for the country to have a conversation about. but do you think that conversation is taking place within the political environment that we live in today. >> not as much as it should, for sure. i experience, down in washington over 25 years, has gotten more partisan. people are kind of in their own camps and not talking to each other nearly as much as they should. i think that's disappointing. i think we need to build some bridges and get some things done. you are getting americans back to work and getting our economic growth engine working which obviously entrepreneurs should be part of. >> rose: -- it's too much focus on politics, not enough focus on policy. and there is a debate about tacuts, a debate about government spending but there needs to be more of a debate around growth. that really is the only way to sustainably grow our economy. >> rose: but there's also a
debate about investment too, investment in those things that will make growth more likely. >> correct. >> rose: education, science, research and development, those kinds of things. >> one of the areas we focused on is the research that helps the federal government helps fund right now we need to keep that funding in place even though there will be a lot of pressure around that. but just as importantly w need to do a better job of commercializing some of the thing as that happened there. the internet is a great example. the internet really was created by the basic research the government funded around arpanet and they devoped it to certain degree and opened it up to the marketplace. it was only 20 yrs that the internet becam commercialed. we got started with aol, it was illegal for us to connect our consumer service with the internet in the late '80s because the internet at the time was just limited to federal agencies and educational institutions. but it was opened up and that unleashed a whole wave of creion that has created a lot of jobs and a lot of wealth and really positioned the united states at the epicentre of that internet revolution.
how do we do that around energy, how do we do that around education. how do we do that around health care. anreally kinof unleash the second internet revolution. what i think of as the first was getting everybody connected, getting everybody believing internet i important. the second is how do you take that and traform other aspects of people's lives and disrupt other industries, and how do we make sure as a nation we are the attacker doing tt, not the defender. >> rose: that is the subject of this commission. >> absolutely. >> rose: oy. so what is the life of the commission, has it ended now that it has made these reports or what does it do now. >> we will have another meeting in december and part of that is trying to put these reports into action. there wasn't a lot of interest in just writing papers and sticking them on the shelf. we really want to get stuff done so trying to rally support around these ideas in particularly things like with, where a congressional sport necessary to build bipartisan coalitions around is entrepreneurship agenda is a keyocus. but then we'll also shift the focus on some of these broader issues such as education, that really implicate our competitiveness over the long run.
>> the commission is called the council on jobs and competitiveness. just speak for a moment about the competitiveness aspect of it. >> that's the piece that will be a focus next year. this year was really about getting things on track in the short to middle term mpetitiveness is really the long-term focus and education really is one of the main pieces that we, everybody agree on the nature of the problem. we need to focus more and more on solutions. >> when you look around the world what country represents the kind of action that you think the united states should look at and pay attention to. >> well, there's many. israel has emerged as a hot bed around start-ups, for example, singapore has done some reallamazing things. some wealked about in the report in terms of creating investment incentives around different industries. but there's something unique about america which is really this entrepreneurial ethic, so it's not so much, you know, the government deciding things or trying to pick winners and losers. it's really unleashing these individual entrepreneurs to create the companies that
can help create the industries that can change the world and position our nation effectively. so i think there is something unique about america. and think everybody around the world undstands that. that the entrepreneurship that, silicon valley is a place but it's also an idea. and it's an idea that inspires people all around the world. how do we build on that and get some of the regulation out of the way that make it difficult to get these companies to go on. how do we make sure that people are able to access in this new global world, the best possible talent. how do we create the incentives around capital. we can do this and if we get both sides working together and do it quickly, we can unleash the next wave of american entrepreneurship. >> s there's no more important debate to be had than that, thank you for coming. >> thank you. we continue ongoing conversation about turkey and its roll in it region as well as its roll in the world. the c.e.o. of turkcell, turkey's largest mobile
operator with more than 34 million subscribers. the company has benefitted from turkey's booming economy. weant talk about that economy and also look at the future of technology in the region. so i am pleased to have him here at this table for the first time. welcom >> nice be here. >> rose: so tell me about you before. because you lived in the united states for a portion of your life within yes. when i graduated from high school i had an opportunity to get a skip and to -- scholarship and to go to germany or stay in turkey. but because there are so many guestorkers in germany i decided to day in turkey. buthe univerty was closed because of student fight. and my father was very up set that i wasn't going to school. i was up set. d then i got a scholarship and came to the united states to study at the university of michigan. so i studied computer engineering and then i went to harvard business school to get my mba. then worked in the start-up business in boston area for five years. and then i started a company
myself with a partner and that was a huge experience. with very good success. and in 12997, i joined microsoft as the president of turkey, so first time i went back after 20 years, and after three years in turkey running microsoft operations there, i was promoted to the headquarters of microsoft in redmond, washington. i took executive position in headquarters of microsoft. worked with great leaders lying bill gates, steve -- and jeff who run the gates foundati today. i learned a lot from them. andhen in 19-- in 2007, i wa offered the jobo be the c.e.o. of turkcell in turkey. and i got excited about that role and i moved to turkey. >> rose: why did you get excited about it? >> because i felt that it was a critical time for the company. and it was facing very tough competition from global players in its home market. and i felt that it was time
for me t take all of my experience and learning in the technology business in the united states a worldwide experience, and take it to this turkish team, be the captain of the team and lead it. and i had been very, very happy. although it took some personal sacrifices. i was away from my family most of this time. but we had a very exciting journey. you know, we are now very proud that turkey has become number one in the world in mobile communication. according to french-- university, world economy forum report, among 138 countries, turkey has become number one in mobile network coverage of population with 99.7%. >> rose: tell me how you see turkey and its future its economic future and then its political impact. >> yeah. charlie, i lived in the
united states all together i think close to 27 years. and i also in my jobs executivposition in microsoft aveled to like closto 80 countries. what i have seen in turkey in the last 8 years is really amazing. and i felt the latest election was best see designed a the best executed election i have ever seen. basically it was like a company makg a presentation to invesrs or investment community. basically, the governing party in turkey's message was this is what we have done in the last eight years. and this is what we plan to do the next 12 years. and they were very substantial, factual information about the progress turkey has made in many key performance indicators. the government, the
leadership in turkey took a very practical approach, very pragmatic approac they basically said if we serve to the people, if we deliver better service to people, we will win their votes. if we make them feel they are better off versus four years ago,ersus eight years ago, they will phot for us. and to capture their votes, to make them feel they are better off, they designed a lot of projects. a lot of infrastructure projects. in communication, in transportation, in education, in health care, in the business, they also turned turkey a much better place to do business. so like if you look at the highways, there were 6,000 kilometers of highways. now we have added 5,000 more. >> rose: you sound like a cheerleader for the government. >> you know, i think i am just impressed by the
execution and you know, live in a very turbulent sometimes-- times right now. i think every day we see things happening in libya, tunesia, egypt, syria. i think it is a good example of business, government leadership, if you do the right thing serving people, if you win their-- this government in turkey has won three consecutive elections with increasing percentage. >> rose: with the same prime minister. >> yes. >> rose: do you have any criticism of this government? will you approving of some of their, what some call crackdowns on the press, are you approving of this effort to witness generals who are resigning from the military because of trials that are going on? >> you know, i think you could say nobody's perfect and nobody always 100 percent of the time makes right decisions every minute. but in general, i know i have met the leadership.
i know that they have interest about doing the right thing for the people. nd i know that it is very sincere. i know it is very real. and -- >> what do you think their ambition for turkey is beyond a prosperous economy and an educated population. >> charlie, you know, our prime minister who is the leader of the party, he was the mayor of is tan bu but-- istanbul. sohen you are a mayor you don't deal with international politics, you deal about serving people for their basic needs. you take a very practical approach. do they have electricity? do they have water. is it clean. is the architecture. >> rose: but you have to worry about liberty, free $do, about human rights and you have to worry about the culture as wl. >> yes. >> rose: you have to do that because those are the kinds of environments that people who might want to come and work for a very prosperous
company like you, will insist on for their children. >> you know, this is what i think is different about this governmt as it is, very pragmatic solutions t the problems. and like i will be open, we have been through a global economic crisis. and i am watching from turkey sometimes a debate in the united states. united states in the parliament debating, what did happening in turkey in 1915 between turkey and armenia. in the parliament. it-- there is a global economic crisis, there is unemploynt increasing. there a recsion risks. and a lot of members of the parliament are -- >> you are talking about the u.s. congress. >> 1915 what has happened. >> turkish government is saying let's do projects, roads, hospitals, so we
deliver better health care, better information. better telecommunication. >> let's change the infrastructure. >> eight years ago we were 101s country in the world to adopt three g. today we became number one in the world in mobile communication. so it takes investment, and some of these projects were done by build, operate and transfer. so japanese funded these, italians funded these, otrs, turkish companies funded these, but today it is better than eight years ago for sure. >> i want to talk about the global econoc picture too. this is from financial times on tuesday october 18th. that's tuesday of this week, as we taped this. here's what says. the turkish economy fundamentals in focus, with its rapid growth and rising ling sndards which you have just her alted, turkey offers hope to neighbors and investors facing a turbulent outlook whh you have also cited. but doubts are growing about the sustainability of the
turkish enomic performance. do you have doubts? >> you know, i learned from the business world tt your past success does not grant you success in the future. nothing goes up forever all the time. so there is a lot of hard work to be done. our success in the future is not guaranteed. but i think turkeys extremely well-positioned to continue its success. charlie, do you know what is the debate in turkey these ys. >> rose: no, tell me. instead of starting work at 9 a.m., should we start work at 7 a.m.. >> rose: yes, of course. >> and another debate is should we work on saturday. so there is a debate and i think people are saying should we work a little bit harder so that we can catch up. so ithin turks are hungryer. and as a result, we are need
to work harder. and in a way, the technology revolution is in our favor. we are to you playing on a much more level field. >> rose: ia report that came out just last month the imf suggested that the rate of growth in turkey would slow down from where, six or seven percent all the way down to two plus percent. do you buy that? do you believe that? and is turkey prepared for that? >> this fast growth also brought a pretty high level of current account deficit. >> right. >> so high levels of imports d overweighting the exports. so kur tee needed to manage that and as a result, we are going to low down the growth a little bit so that we catch up in the trade account deficit. >> the other thing, what about the depreciation in the lira. >> i think it is basically again a measure that's going to help reduce the trade account deficit. it's going to make turkish
products more competitive and it's going to make imports more expensive so it's going to help that balance. >> so kur turkey wants to an be export nation. >> turkey wants to -- >> like germany, china. >> turkey wants tgrow its economy so that all of the ople a better off. >> and what do you see is the biggest challenge to that happening? >> i think you know, political risks are something we need to be careful, world economic condition, if there is another global economic crisis,bviously it uld haven impact. but i think we need to focus on our own business and we need to drive innovatio we need to work harder. we need to be more efficient. we need to use technology in our businesses more efficiently. plus technology is really hope for humanity, for the future. >> when you look at turkey's role in the world, does
turkey still want to be part of a european union? >> you know, there is still a desire to be part of the european union. but i think europe union is better off with turkey. and we have been doing well, if you look at our past performance anthere are a lot of benefits. i think opening up there is, we can have access to knowlee. there's a lot we can learn from europe as well but i think it's not critical for turkey's future to be part of the your mean union. i think it could be a win-win if we join the european union. >> rose: what do you think of the crisis europe is going through right now in the your ozone. >> i'm not surprised because i do, you and i have attended some european meetings. and you know, you hear 27 countries, different cultures, politicians arguing, talking, discussing, discussion going
on. but it's not about very practical things about serving people. it's about, it's a very high level, i don't know if it is touching people. and this is why i was making the comments about the turkish government. they have not lost the purpose of the government which is to make life, to improve lives of the regular people. i mean europ looks too complicated, too sophisticated. it's like too many moving parts. so it is difficult to orchestrate, organize. i think united states is more, you know, one homogenous. >> rose: more of a political union th europe has, clearly that's part of the problem. >> yeah. >> rose: so you think that the turkish government will continue to press forward for admission to the european union. >> i think. >> rose: and that the european union would be wise to understand that turkey could be a vital member as well as a link to the islam communy, muslim community around the world. >> also very practically, today turkey is the 6th
largest economy in europe, and it was growing 11%. number one fastest growing economy in the world. second quarter, second fastest growing at 8.8%. so you have a large size economy growing fast. ist europe better off joining forces, having access to these markets. >> rose: yes, well, that's the argument that has been made. and you know, you wonder why that doesn't happen. but it's tak a long time. and you ask yourself what are the fears they have of turkey. >> you know, they have a lot of fears but what were the main reasons that the united states had been successful so long. i think having fresh immigrants, fresh bod of smart people coming in. >> rose: you're absolutely right. >> andworking, trying, ready to bite the bears ass every morning, rk very hard. that approach wasery critical, i think. >> rose: indd. >> and i think european union could only benefit from that. but obviously, a lot of europeans could feel a
little bit threatened by it. and there is also the religion factor. >> rose: talk to me about the religion factor. >> because i was recently in netherlands and i saw that you know, some of the dutch were very bothered by the fact that some of the immigrants, they had build a mosque and they were turning the loudspeaker up to the highest volume. and the whole amsterdam was listening to the five prayers the muslim religi. and that needs to be more harmony. >> rose: friday prayers. >> exactly. so obviously you know, this kind of actions also creates resistence it needs to be a softer approach. >> rose: what is the xt big idea in technology. >> basically there was a 30 year o wave of the pc. >> rose: right. >> before that, 1967, years of the mainframes. and then minicomputers and then the p coss. but now is the time for
mobile commuters and mobile communication in simple mobile internet. the smar phones, the computers you carry your pocket, they are your phone. they do work as a phone but they are mainly a computer, they are very smart in software. they provide you a lot of services that make your life easier. >> rose: including things like a gps and everything else. >> now is internet important of course. >> of course. and how many people in the world today reaching internet. >> rose: i don't know, you know. >> 1.5 billion people. >> rose: out of a population. >> out of 7 billion. >> rose: 7 billion. 1.5. >> so in the next five years, that number will go from 1.5 to 5. that is the opportunity. >> rose: 1.5 to 5. >> in the next five years. >> rose: in the next five years. >> because of the smart phones and tablet. >> rose: the price will come down as well. >> exactly t is coming down. world population is $7 billion and there are 5.7
billion phones. so these people are today using phones, almost we have reached a very high level of penetratn. almost everybo in africa, in amazon, in turkey, in united states, they all have phones. today we are connecting thes people through a very thin wire of voice and short message. but with this mobile internet broadband, it will be a much bigger pipe. so video will be the main information data that is flowin so peoplwill have access to education, health information, business information, entertainment, all around the world through this mobile internet so they don't have to come from turkey or africa to the united states to access knowledge. they can have this through technology in their hand. >>ose: it's good to you have here and i thank you for coming. >> thank you. azim prem yes is here, the chairman of wipro, one of india's largest information
technology companies employing more than 100,000 people around the world. he is one of india's richest men and active philanthropist. last year he pledged $-- 2 billion his shares in whip ro to improve rural education in india. i'm pleased to have him back at this table. welcome. interesting as you say that there was a story in "washington post" over, on sunday's "washington post" which i have here, basically it says india's baby boom dividend or disaster. so tell me how do you assess what india's doing in the realm of education and population. >> i think so far as education is concerned, there is a reasonable amount of traction in college education. and particularly engineering education. because quite a lot of engineering education is rare privatid so there is an incentivto set up new colleges at reasonably high quality. but if you talk about primary education, particularly primary education, the villages of india, secondary education in the villages of india, it
is completely a disaster situation. not enough is bng done. what is being done is not being well executed on the ground floor. and i think it's leading to a fairly serious situation. which is why we as a foundation have been so involved in it for the past ten years, with a single minded focus in primary education in the villages of dia. >> rose: has technology had an impact on education in india. >> you know, i think the problems are just too basic to be talking about technology. >> rose: as the cure. >> when you have -- when you have students in 30% of whom cannot read or right, it's a situation where you are not talking about technology, you're talking about some other fundamentals of teaching students, what education really means, what litecy really means. which is at stake here. >> rose: what do you think of the possibility that a europe will express, will experience a rougher times. i think what is crucial is the meeting of the
european community leaders over this weekend, frid, saturday, sunday. and it is very critical that they come up with a conclusion. we understand that the conclusion has to be voted on, and that it goes to a second round. but unless they come to a conclusion as to how they want to go about restructuring europe, how they want to go about restructuring greece, i don't think we'll get very far. but given the fact that everyone is guided by self-survival, given the fact that they saw what sitting on the fence did to the u.s. in terms of a d rating and the spark it sent off with the mood of the country, i am positive that you will see something coming out by monday and they will have to work the system to get a consensus on it. it will mean pain. >> rose: so when you look at china today, how do you see its own-- what challenges if faces in the near term? >> i think, i just, we have a reasonable presence in china. we have almost 200 employees
there. i think china is like a military engine in a constant state of war. it is just incredible how to execute. and i think to the credit of their leadership. their leadership thinks ahead. they think now. they think medium term. they think long-term. i think whatchina needs to get on top of is issues that they must protect international property. it's absolutely fundamental to the future of china. and i think china must be less threatening t the rest of the world beuse there is a lot of concern being expressed by investors in china that china is getting too threatening. and thatsausing-- . >> rose: in terms of its actions around the world, seeming to be oblivious to other sensitivities and other things, make people believe or even its activities in its own global waters. >> absolutely. >> rose: make them disrespectful of other nations. >> and in terms of his own agenda of what it wants to
be five years from today and ten years from today. >> rose: other people come here and sit at this table and say china has no rritorial ambitions at all. it has no even military ambitions. it wants to build up its military capabilities. wants to be a naval power. but the main thing it wants it to do is grow economics because it needs and knows that continued economic prosperi is essential to all of its challenges. >> but it has huge economic ambitions. at any cost. >> rose: yes. >> and i think it's the at any cost which is threatening to the world. and that has to do with pollution an other things. >> no it has to work with the way the work the reciprocity, the quid pr quo on everything from a position of strength. no, this is nothing wrong. provided they don't completely invade the economic rights of other countries. and one clear case in point is that they don't have enough respect for intellectual property. >> rose: do ey recognize
that. >> they recognize that, without question they recognizthat. >> rose: but is there a wl to do something out it. >> there is a will. but again given china's capability to execute things so superr, i done think the execution is anyway superior in that area. >> rose: what are your concerns about india's future? >> i'm particularly optimistic of india's future. and i attribute that to the entrepreneurship of india, to an extremely wide-- democracy which is across all levels of education. i think that's fundamental to a successful society in the long run. so whatever aberrations you see now, whatever issues on governance which you are seeing now which are hitting the press and hitting the media, i think something is in a way good because it means a major wake-up call for the people. been a major wake-up call for the government. and any government which has to get re-elected every five yes, this particular government has to get elected in ail little over two years. because it is just not
corruption at the top. it's not just corruption between the giver and the taker and the taker and the give. it's also corruption in the grass root level when a person wants his death certificate, his land certificate, when a person wants his subsidized food. >> you have to pay somebody. >> you have to pay somebody. there's no question on that. and government would be the first to admit that. >> so why don't they do something abouit. >> they must. but they must have an implementaon machinery for it. an honest implementation machinery and an accountable machinery which has consequences. i think one of the nice things about the uid program eye which is the identification program is that it can potentially convert all sorts of subsidies into a payment of cash to the housewife of the house. and then she goes to these cash vouchers to any shop and chooses what she wants to get on it up to a certain limit that she is entitled to because she is -- -- her family is below the poverty line. and one of the good things of the governance
information technology progress which is being made across all the states, is that it reduces individual judgements. and that is penetrating. and is being replicated state after state, so so far as the common man is concerned, there is a high possibility that in the next three years, two and a half years, a lot of the hats that he or she goes through can be significantly indicated if the government is sincere. >> rose: chinaor example has seen more than a histo of civilization the rise of the largest amount of people leave poverty and go into the middle class. is that happening in india in sufficient numbers as well or remarkable numbers as well? >> it is happening i india. not as fast as in china. >> rose: why is that? >> because number one inflation taking up the poverty line and that's a reality. and poverty is defined just not as economic poverty, but by way of educaon. poverty is defined by way of health. but the things today are
certainly better. and you see that in ridly increasing rural demand in the country. in towns and villages below 15,000 population, 10,000 population, that cannot be happening unless there is wealth being created at a grass root level in the villages of india. so i think in terms of some of the programs of governme, in terms of the consumer civil which is spreading in terms of higher realization for the farmer, more job opportunities, i think it is penetrating and the government could be doing it better. but i think it is to their credit that they have a reasonable good b on that. >> over the long run because one country is a democracy and the other is not and although it has some democracy at certain levels of the government, do you think democracy over the long run will mean that china will be outpaced by india? >> or china will have to adopt some form of modifd chinese democracy. but i think the advantage of
democracy, it makes us less dependent on a group of leaders. it's a more broad-based way of getting consensus in the way the country goes forward and for india it has been a positive thing. and it is certainly broad based. th amount of participation the ters can make in the running of the cntry. and it's inherent to human desire. i don't think any country in the world can hold it back beyond a point of time md app and you are seeing this experience in the middle east. >> rose: and the arab spring shows that clearly. >> absolutely. just a matter of time before things survive as they are. so china is clever enough to realize that. so they will have to do adoptation of the way they rule the people, they rule the government or rule the country, to something pore adaptive and they are smart enough to do that. >> rose: what are your reservations about the united states?
>> you know, the united states is a complex country. is a country which has also got a very high predominance of immigrants who have been successful. >> rose: . >> and it has a huge attraction for the talent of the world to come down here, settle down here and take on citizenship. it is an extremely fertile country for initiates. >> rose: and they no longer have any kind of monopoly on that, i anshat's one of the signal changes that has taken place, primarily because i think of the rise of technology and information and social media and the business that you are in. >> but you have a huge critical mass. the key issues is you don't lose that critica mass. don't lose that momentum. >> rose: but you have to, the way you don't lose is it is invest in it and appreciate it and invest in it and make sure that you know you don't let it wither within and invest in the education talent.
particularly education in the technology area. you know, the past 20 years, govlt has increased spending on jails by six times in the united states. per capita spending on education is doing the same. >> more money on jails by a factor of six than we have on education. what does that say. what does that say to you. >> i think we've got some priorities wrong. now you don't solve those priorities by putting restrictions on free flow of people who bring in that technology and bring in those brains, many of them settle here, many start organizations here. and somebody should analyze the number of fortune 500 companies where immigrants have played an absolutely critical role in founding those companies. >> rose: who stayed here after they got an education here at the graduate level. >> absolutely. >> rose: and at some of our best universities and some of our great state universities as well. so wipro, how is it doing. >> wipro is well but i think we will do much better in the future well. made some transformational changes, we made change in
leadership. >> ros in terms o succession. >> in terms ofsuccession, in terms of leadership. in terms of the way we have simplified the business, made it faster under feet and we are starting to see results of it happening now. >> rose: how about diversity of revenue treatmts-- streams. >> very well across geographies. u.s.-- accounts for 70% of our business, accounts for under 55% of our business . we built up europe successfully, we built up the middle east successfully, we built up australia successfully. we're now building up latin america and africa successfully. so we have a broad portfolio of risk diversification and a broad portfolio of very focused areas in which we aring whether future technology. >> rose: good to see you again. >> pleasure to meet you again, charlie.