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tv   PBS News Hour  PBS  May 18, 2015 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> ifill: islamic state fighters claim victory in iraq. the key city of ramadi falls into militant hands as government security forces retreat and residents flee. good evening, i'm gwen ifill. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. also ahead this monday: banning military-style equipment for local police. part of president obama's push to ease tensions between law enforcement and the communities they serve. >> ifill: plus... >> i learned how to make salad and how to sing songs. 50 years after it began, is head start living up to its promises of helping children in need?
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>> woodruff: those are some of the stories we're covering on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. >> lincoln financial-- committed to helping you take charge of your life and become you're own chief life officer. >> and the william and flora hewlett foundation, helping people build immeasurably better lives. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions
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and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: leaders in baghdad and washington scrambled to respond today, after islamic state forces scored a stunning new victory in iraq. the fall of the city of ramadi put a stop to recent gains by iraqi government forces, and it dealt a blow to the u.s. campaign to contain and destroy the extremist group. we'll look at reactions to this reversal after the news summary. >> ifill: police in waco, texas, were on high alert today, after sunday's deadly shootout involving five motorcycle gangs. nine bikers were killed and at least 18 wounded. the incident erupted as rival gangs gathered at a waco restaurant. in the aftermath, more than 170 people were arrested on a long list of charges.
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>> they have showed up repeatedly over two months and have been here. we've had a little bit of issue out of them, some arrests for warrants, things like that, minor skirmishes. we had particular intelligence yesterday that there was going to be an even worse group of individuals here yesterday. >> ifill: police also fired shots in the gun battle, but there was no word on whether they killed or wounded anyone. >> woodruff: a texas grand jury decided today not to charge a police officer for killing an unarmed mexican man. it happened last february in a dallas suburb, and triggered protest rallies. video from a police dashboard camera showed the victim with hands raised, walking forward unsteadily. the officer repeatedly called for him to stop, then opened fire. >> ifill: in yemen, saudi-led air strikes resumed against shiite rebels after a five-day cease-fire ended sunday. there was also new fighting in several cities across yemen. meanwhile, the rebels' chief sponsor, iran, criticized
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diplomatic talks being held in the saudi capital. >> ( translated ): in fact since we consider riyadh and saudi arabia as part of the conflict it cannot host a conference for solving the yemeni crisis. a conference or a national dialogue should be held including all yemeni groups alone in a neutral country that has no links to riyadh or other sides who are part of the conflict. >> ifill: so far, the rebels and their allies have boycotted the talks. >> woodruff: secretary of state john kerry fired off a broadside at north korea today, accusing it of "horrific conduct" on human rights and nuclear weapons. kerry spoke during his stop in south korea. he said the north is acting with "reckless abandon," and warned there could be additional sanctions. >> ifill: back in this country, the u.s. supreme court made it easier for employees to sue their companies over 401-k retirement plans. the justices ruled unanimously in a challenge to choosing mutual funds with high fees. separately, the court refused to stop an investigation of
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governor scott walker's 2012 recall campaign in wisconsin. at issue is whether he illegally coordinated activities with outside groups. he's now a potential republican presidential candidate. >> woodruff: amtrak service between new york and philadelphia has resumed for the first time since last week's deadly derailment. a northbound train carrying about 60 people left philadelphia's 30th street station just after 6:00 this morning. a similar southbound train departed new york an hour earlier. the wreck killed eight people and injured more than 200. >> ifill: and on wall street, the dow jones industrial average gained 26 points to close near 18,300. the nasdaq rose 30 points and the s&p 500 added six. >> woodruff: still to come on the newshour: what gains by islamic state forces means for the future of iraq. banning local police from using military-style equipment. the legacy of head start, 50 years on.
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senator bernie sanders on his bid for the white house. the week ahead in politics with amy walter and tamara keith. and, a darker side of social media-- a contemporary platform for public shaming. >> ifill: after suffering their biggest defeat at the hands of the islamic state group in nearly a year, the iraqi government has called in thousands of shia militia forces, and requested more u.s. air strikes to beat back the sunni militant group. the streets of ramadi were empty today, and the islamic state's black flag flew in the capital of iraq's largest province anbar. civilians who stayed even after fighting broke out last month, were fleeing by the thousands toward baghdad. so were many iraqi troops. this amateur video apparently
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shows military and civilian vehicles speeding out of town on sunday. in their wake, stockpiles of weapons were left for the taking. to the north, crowds gathered in mosul, iraq's second largest city, captured by isis last june. they cheered the fall of ramadi and anbar province. >> ( translated ): the conquest of anbar is just the beginning of the conquest of baghdad najaf and karbala. now the conquest has begun, now the fighting has begun. >> ifill: the loss of ramadi may also delay plans for an iraqi offensive to retake mosul, which had been in the works after tikrit was recaptured last month. in washington, pentagon and white house officials acknowledged the setback to american efforts to contain isis. but pentagon spokesman colonel steve warren said reporters should not read too much into the islamic state victory, and that iraqi ground forces and
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coalition air power is still working. secretary of state john kerry, traveling in south korea, also said the campaign has degraded the militants' financial capacity and freedom of movement. >> but that's not everywhere. and so it is possible to have the kind of attack we've seen in ramadi. but i'm absolutely confident in the days ahead, that will be reversed. >> ifill: on the battlefield, the immediate u.s. response was to step up air strikes. iraqi prime minister haider al- abadi, called up powerful shi- ite militias to fight in largely sunni anbar province. the militias insisted they are ready to hold their ground. >> ( translated ): we will be a real backbone for the security forces and we will support the legitimacy in iraq represented in the government and parliament. >> ifill: shiite iran is a principle supporter of the militias, and it helped coordinate the successful fight to retake tikrit.
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a senior iranian official said in beirut today his nation will help again. >> ( translated ): ramadi will have the same fate as tikrit, it will be liberated from the grasp of the extremist terrorists and victory in the end will be for the iraqi people and the iraqi state. >> ifill: and, iran's defense minister flew to baghdad for talks with the iraqi army chief of staff, one day after the top u.s. regional commander, general lloyd austin, was there. back in ramadi, islamic state- related websites showed video of heavy fighting from the weekend, and the group said it was executing apostates, a reference to captured iraqi troops. joining me now to talk about the battle against the islamic state is retired colonel derek harvey. he's a former special adviser to the commander of u.s. forces in iraq, and now director for the global initiative on civil society and conflict at the university of south florida. and vali nasr, a former state department senior adviser. he's now dean at the johns
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hopkins school of advanced international studies. vali nasr, how significant is the fall of ramadi? >> i think symbolically very significant. ramadi is the capital of anbar. psychologically, it boosts the position of the region, helps the recruitment and suggests that they are far from on their back hill. >> ifill: derek harvey the pentagon spokesman said today not to read too much into. this what do you read into it? >> i think it clearly shows the islamic state is not losing, which means we're not winning, and we need to re-think our approach, how we're resourcing this effort and our determination to assist the iraqi security forces and bolster prime minister abadi. i think most importantly that prime minister abadi could become weakened and further isolated which would undermine
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the major political effort that we've had in play in iraq. we've invested a lot in him and his opponents will use this as another arrow to undermine his political stature in the country. >> ifill: there is a political piece here and a military piece, vali nasr. how much of this came to pass because of the inherent weakness of the iraqi military? >> i think it's mostly the result of the weakness of the iraqi military. the iraqi military collapsed when i.s.i.s. took mosul. therethere was an effort to shore it up and i think that was comaj rated. a lot of the fighting was by shia polygamist in places like tikrit and we see iraq is not up to redepending against i.s.i.s. when they go in one direction, that gives i.s.i.s. room to move into other areas. >> ifill: we heard of u.s. victory over a leader of i.s.i.s. which the white house was anxious to disseminate that
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information. in order to make the continuing case that there has been some victory here. do you see that? >> i really don't. you know, taking out a leader who is readily replaceable, i think, in my judgment, is not a major factor in this campaign. you know, we've had these types of takedowns of leaders at mid-level and senior several before and they're replaced over time. the most important thing about this action against abu, is the data that can be exploited to go after networks and leadership down the road. >> ifill: do you agree vali nasr? >> i agree. i think i.s.i.s.'s power in the region comes from its ability to show it's a viable force, that it can capture territory, stand up to the u.s. and it's the only, if you will, sunni force capable of taking on baghdad and tehran and all of this is
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reinforced in ramadi. the fact they lost the leader means he has been martyred. that's expected in war and i think the fact they were able to capture ramadi right after the death of that leader. >> ifill: i'm also curious about whether you think that the u.s. could be doing more or whether this is something -- and perhaps to the extent of actually overtly collaborating with iran. >> well, if our goal is to defeat i.s.i.s. in the very short run it cannot be done through iraqi security forces. being able to stand up and fight i.s.i.s. will take time. so either the u.s. has to do more of the fighting or much more overtly and explicitly collaborate with the shia militias backed by iran who are proven to be the more effective force fighting i.s.i.s. >> ifill: is that a nonstarter collaborating even in a subtle
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fashion with iran? >> i think in mobile life more sunni arab deassistance not those just key to support i.s.i.s. anyway, and i think it will put at risk our influence and an independent iraq down the road. it threatens to make iraq more of a client state of tehran if we are not very careful about how iranian influence with these popular mobilization units and shia militias is calibrated. >> ifill: let me ask you and sticking with you, colonel harvey, how strong is the political support on the ground nor acecies which makes it maybe a little more difficult to take on? >> i don't think anyone is certain about how strong the political support is. what's clear is there is real frustration and still anger with baghdad. keep in mind that ramadi has been under pressure from i.s.i.s. for 16 months and they have been asking for help, the tribal leaders have been asking for help, the i.s.f. the iraqi
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security forces were asking for reinforcements and support continuously over this time and it was not forthcoming from baghdad. that creates animosity toward baghdad tapped into throughout the sunni region. >> ifill: we hear what's happened in tikrit, ray made, mosul kobani and feels like a few steps forward and several steps back and weather right where we started. am i wrong in that reading or is there something else we're doing wrong that means we cannot make permanent progress? >> ifill: weprogress? we cannot make permanent progress by what we have on the ground. the iraqi security forces cannot defeat i.s.i.s. they can push them out of one town and city and i.s.i.s. moves somewhere else. what is required is denying the entire territory of iraq to i.s.i.s. and being able to push i.s.i.s. out of all the
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territory it holds without engage it to move into another territory. iraqi security forces than not do that. even the shia militia by themselves cannot do that in the short run. in the longer run the u.s. has to invest in building up iraqi security forces to be able to control iraq. but in the short run there is no immediate solution to this so we're playing a game of rock and roll with i.s.i.s. hit them in tikrit, they move to ramadi. hit them in ramadi, they move somewhere else. at any rate, the iraqi security forces now are not a strong option. if our goal is to defeat i.s.i.s., you have to see what you have to work with and what you have to work with is the shia militias. >> ifill: derek harvey, does that mean i.s.i.s. has to be treated as a long-term enemy. >> clearly has to be treated as a long-term enemy, but i think we're overestimating the capability of fighting strength of the popular mobilization units of the shia militias.
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they are not that good and they've demonstrated that at the outsecurities of tikrit and in other places when they overwhelmingly overmatch sunni fighters in a small town or not a built-up area they do well. but in street fighting urban fighting against an organized offense, they've demonstrated they are not good. >> ifill: derek harvey of university of south florida and vali nasr of former state department seniorjohn hopkins schoolof advanced international studies. thank you very much. >> woodruff: many of the images that first called the nation's attention to the protests in ferguson, missouri, last summer were ones like these-- video of the local police force responding in strength and sometimes resembling a small army, including, officers clad in military gear, using tear gas, and pointing rifles at the crowds. the clashes in baltimore and new
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york city have reinforced those images as well. much of this equipment was made available to local police departments in the years after the 9/11 attacks. but today, president obama announced a ban on the sale or transfer of certain military- style gear to local police including: tracked armored vehicles, grenade launchers, and firearms of .50-caliber or higher. he spoke in camden, new jersey. >> we've seen how militarized gear can sometimes give people a feeling like there is an occupying force as opposed to a force that's part of the community that's protecting and serving them, it can alienate and intimidate local resients and send the wrong message. so we're going to prohibit some equipment made for the battlefields that is not appropriate for local police departments. >> woodruff: a closer look at
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what's behind this decision, and its potential impact. philadelphia police chief charles ramsey is the co-chair of the president's task force on policing, which has been working on these issues. and, richard beary is the president of the international association of police chiefs. he's the former police chief of the city of lake mary, florida, and now chief of police for the university of central florida. and, gentlemen, we thank you both. chief ramsey, let me start with you. what the president did today was one of really picking up on one of the recommendations of the task force you led, have been leading the recommendations you made. why is this necessary? >> well, i think it's clearly necessary that we be able to ask police to justify any equipment that we receive not just from the military but also using federal grants to get some of the equipment. obviously, we need a broad range of equipment. police need -- police handle everything from missing
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childrenoto active shooters. the equipment you need to respond varies a great deal. but some military equipment is more appropriate for the field of battle, not the urban streets of our cities. >> woodruff: chief beary, do you agree this is the thing to do to ban some kinds of military equipment? >> i think everybody is looking for a balance. we at the international association of chiefs of police understand we have to have the support of the community but, at the same time, as chief ramsey says, law enforcement is dealing with lots of new threats. 20 years ago, whoever heard of an active shooter? now we hear about it all the time. so we have to make sure that we balance the needs to have of the public and the safety of the officers and those sworn to protect the public. that's what we're trying to do here. >> woodruff: chief ramsey, what do you think about achieving the balance and how much has to do with equipment and how much has to do with the training of the police themselves, the culture that they work in?
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>> well, i think most of it has to do with training, but probably the most important aspect of this is policy. at what point in time is it property to deploy certain types of equipment, and there are need to be standards and policies in place to guide tousers so they have clear direction and i think that we have seen some instances where certain types of equipment were deployed in my opinion, at a point in time when it wasn't really necessary, and that's what creates a lot of the problems. so it's training, it's policy it's all of those things combined that i think we need to make sure are in place, and i think that the government is right in seeing to it that we do have those things in place before providing that kind of equipment to an agency. >> woodruff: chief ramsy what's an example of the time and place when the wrong thing was used? >> well, when you're talking about mass demonstrations
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depending on the crowd and we're not talking about all-out riots like we saw the first day in baltimore when things really spiraled out of control, and even later in ferguson things spiraled out of control. but when it first started, i know that i was in washington, d.c. and now philadelphia, we try to start off without using certain types of equipment. we have them available, but it's certainly out of sight. we don't want to incite a crowd. so i think it's way you deployed, depending on what you're dealing, with people have a right to protest, and if you show up with riot gear, heavy armored vehicles and so forth when people are just simply out peacefully demonstrating, you're going to wind up with a riot, more than likely. >> woodruff: chief beary, how do you strike the right balance and how much is is the equipment and how much is the training and approach and culture of the police force? >> well a couple of important
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things come to light. number one, what we know is 90% of what law enforcement agencies across this country have received from the military had nothing to do with tanks and guns and things like that. the majority of the equipment that we have received are radios, equipment, things that help us do our job in the community. so i think we need to make sure we understand that. secondly training is absolutely an essential part of responding to any type of situation. so i agree with chief ramsey. it's about training, policy, and also about having that just in case you need it because you just don't know when a crowd is going to go bad. a perfect example was in waco, texas yesterday. they didn't expect the shootout they had there. so it's a real combination and that's the delicate balance with trying to be a police chief in this country is to make sure you have your people prepared, have the equipment you need, at the same time, not trying to come off like you're trying to intim at a time the community you serve. >> woodruff: chief ramsey i would like you to respond to
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that and also address -- i mean, how much of a problem do we have in this country right now between police and communities who feel they are just not understood and not respected by the police? >> well, you know, it depends on the city the relationship that police and community have. obviously, there are some areas and pockets in our city where relationships are strained. that's not new. i started policing in 1968 in chicago and we had areas of our city where no one would talk to you, provide information and so forth. i mean, there was tension between police and community. now, we've engaged in community policing for the last three decades at least, and i think we've done a very very good job of establishing relationships and also reducing crime but we have left some community behind. there still remains some tension and we need to be sure we build
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bridges that we close the gaps with those communities as well and they tend to be communities of color and communities that are challenged in many ways with poverty, lack of educational opportunities of quality and things of that nature. so we've got a lot of work ahead of us. but the community has to work alongside us. this isn't just a police issue. it takes the community also reaching out to us as we reach out to them. >> woodruff: chief beary, how much of the country has this problem we're talking about and to what extent do you think banning these militaristic-style pieces of equipment will make a difference? >> well, i don't think what the government has banned will have that big of an impact. what our concern is, is really the stuff that they have -- equipment that they have limited and we're waiting to see how the
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rules roll out, how we justify the use and things of that nature. certainly, when it comes to community policing, that is a key part of the solution. however, we know there are a lot of issues going on in our communities from poverty to mental health issues. there are a host of issues going on and the i.a.c.p. for over 20 years called for a national summit on criminal justice, the entire system, and we're hoping all the things combined will lead to the commission to take a look at the whole system and how to better handle the delivery of service to our communities and treat our people and men and women who work for us and the sources with respect. so there's a lot of work ahead. i think it's also important to note there are a lot of communities across this country who are doing a great job and law enforcement doing a great job. a reuters poll was done in january this year and three-quarters of the people who responded said they have confidence in their local police department. so there's a lot of ged things being done across the country.
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we just need to continue to enhance that and deliver the services our community expect. >> woodruff: chief beary president of the international association of police chiefs and chief ramsey of philadelphia. we thank you both. >> thank you. >> ifill: 50 years ago today president lyndon johnson announced the creation of head start, the government program designed to support lowe children and families. in our latest american graduate report, the newshour's april brown has the story of how it's changed the lives of millions of children. that's part of a public media initiative funded by the corporation for public broadcasting. >> reporter: lisette steinwald's pre-school class in silver spring, maryland. the theme of what it takes to make a salad can be found in a variety of activities throughout the day, from reading, to a little show and tell.
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the four and five year-olds she teaches in the head start program at montgomery knolls elementary school spend about three-and-a-half hours with her every day during the school year. >> curve it around and slide to the right to make a number two. >> reporter: they're learning skills designed to ease the transition to kindergarten, and are following in the footsteps of about 30 million children who have gone through the program in the united states over the past five decades. head start got its start in the summer of 1965, as one salvo in president lyndon johnson's war on poverty. the early education program for low-income children supported their social, emotional and physical needs and got them ready for elementary school. it drew high-profile supporters, including the president's wife lady bird johnson... and actor gregory peck.
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>> sadly, there are little children who are already headed for lives of frustration and misery. no one ever read them a story taught them a nursery rhyme or showed them about letters, colors and numbers. when they start school, they'll be so far behind the others they may never catch up. >> in 1965 i was sitting on the porch of our shack in ames, texas with my mother and a woman approached the house. she introduced herself and told my mother she represented a new program called head start. >> reporter: darren walker's mother signed him up in the program's inaugural year, and he recently shared his story at a gathering of supporters and alumni from around the country hosted by the national head start association. it let me begin to imagine to think about the world outside of my environment and to think creatively about what my life might be.
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>> reporter: today walker is president of the ford foundation, the nation's second largest philanthropic group which is a funder of the newshour. in honor of head start's 50th anniversary, the organization is paying for new research on early brain development in an effort to improve outcomes. darren walker says the foundation has come full-circle since it supported research in the 1960's that lead to the creation of head start in the first place. >> what we were interested in at ford was how we could scale across america program that could create an educational revolution that would build a new social mobility escalator. >> isabel do you have a toothbrush at home? no toothbrush. >> the evidence is that it did some good when it was first introduced for some very poor counties in the south. it's a different day.
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>> reporter: russ whitehurst is a senior fellow at the brookings institution and has studied pre- school programs extensively. he says even though it's an iconic program, evidence has revealed that head start's long- term outcomes are questionable. whitehurst points to a 2010 study by the u.s. department of health and human services, and the 2014 follow-up report which found almost no evidence of lasting impacts for head start children beyond the third grade. >> that is they were not better readers, they were not doing math better, they did not have better social development. they did not have better health outcomes. >> reporter: but the executive director of the national head start association, yasmina vinci, says other factors should be taken into consideration when looking at that research. >> even when you're vaccinated vaccinations do not last forever. you have to have a booster.
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when our kids don't go to schools that are not well funded and well run or ready for them they certainly lose some of their advantage. >> reporter: however, even the white house has acknowledged head start programs haven't always been pushed to do their best >> if a program wasn't providing kids with quality services, there was no incentive to improve. >> reporter: in 2011, president barack obama expanded accountability reforms introduced by george w. bush, and this year has appropriated about $8 billion for head start services. still, russ whitehurst says the program isn't meeting the needs of many low-income families. he believes they would better served with vouchers to choose their own pre-schools, especially since many head start centers are open just a few hours a day. numbers proving head start's success are hard to come by, but the program's supporters say
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they know it's changed many lives. >> we see the children who are now graduating from high school getting scholarships, full college scholarships, not dropping out of high school. >> i remember that i started to learn to read and that i would read to my mother when i came home and she was so proud of me. and it was one those moments that i learned if i did well in school my mother would be proud of me. >> reporter: back in maryland, lisette steinwald's class continues their exploration of salad, taste-testing a variety of ingredients. >> raise your hand if you like lettuce more than carrots. one, two, three four... and a half. >> reporter: and at the end of the day zyriana barazarte is happy to share all the things she learned in her morning at head start. >> i learned how to make salad, how to read, and how to sing
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songs. >> reporter: zyriana's mother zoila barazarte, who is deaf, says the program has been good for her daughter. >> she's learning a lot of vocabulary from the teacher listening skills, she's learning to share. >> reporter: just a few of the outcomes head start was originally created to nurture. i'm april brown for the pbs newshour in silver spring, maryland. >> woodruff: now, to our series of interviews with the men and women running for president in 2016. tonight, senator bernie sanders of vermont, an independent seeking the democratic nomination. welcome to the "newshour", senator sanders. >> great to be with you. >> woodruff: so you are an independent. you call yourself a democratic socialist. how is that different from being
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a democrat? >> well, i have been in the democratic caucus in the senate for over 24 years but as an independent my views, in fact, are a little different than many of my democratic colleagues. i worry very much that we have a billionaire class now which has enormous power not only over our economy but over our political system as well as a result of citizens united supreme court decision. so my own view is that we have got to be very, very bold in taking on big money and creating a situation where government begins to work for the middle class and working families of our country rather than just the wealthy and the powerful. >> woodruff: so that's the main difference you would make. why are you running for president? >> judy, i'm running for president because, in my view our country faces more serious problems than at any time since the great depression, and if you throw in the planetary crisis of climate change, it may well be that the problems are getting more severe.
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look, for the last 30 years, the great middle class of this country has been disappearing. immediate i can't be family income today is significantly less than 1999. millions are working longer hours for lower wages. at the same time, we have seen a huge shift of wealth to the top 1/10 of 1%. so today 99% of all income is going to the top 1%. the top one-tenth of 1% owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 99%. that sun sustainable. >> woodruff: you talked about raising the capital gains rate and the tax on dividends for the top 2%. in fact, you talk about, i think, nearly doubling it. critics say that is going to put a big damper on job creation and the growth of this economy. >> well, i know.
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critics are often paid by large corporations or corporate think tanks. the fact of the matter is right now in america we're losing about $100 billion every single year because very profitable corporations are stashing money in the cayman islands and other tax havens. that has to end. second off, we have hedge fund managers, guys making many millions of dollars a year are paying an effective tax rate lower than nurses or school teachers are paying. and warren buffet makes the point his effective tax rate as a multi-billionaire is lower than his secretary's. that's got to end. they have to pay their fair share of taxes. >> woodruff: you have been critical of the trade bill president obama is vigorously pushing. hillary clinton, your rival has not yet take an position on this. just today, cbs news regarding the she has taken 2.5 $2.5 million
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in speaking fees from organizations that are promoting this trade bill. is that a problem? >> sure, it's a problem. the problem that we have now is that our political system is increasingly dominated by our billionaire class and super pacs who have unbelievable influence over what goes on politically. it is a huge problem. but in terms of this trade agreement, in my view the trance atlantic partnership have to do with trade agreements with other countries and contribute to the fac that we have lost almost 60,000 factories since 2001 and millions of decent-paying jobs, and i think enough is enough. we have got to rebuild our manufacturing base not send ut to china or other countries. >> woodruff: does it matter -- we said secretary clinton has not taken a position. what does it mean if she doesn't take a position on this before
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the congress votes on it. >> i think that's a very fair question. i think the american people will have to decide. if you are asking me why it is that the middle class the disappearing and you're seeing more income and wealth inequality than any time since the 1920s trade is a very important factor. not the only reason. it is hard for me to understand any serious candidate for president can duck the issue. you can't. you can be for it or against it, but it is hotty debated now in congress. you have to have a position on it. >> woodruff: in this case, you are going up against somebody who is a political joggernaut in secretary clinton. why is that? >> i have stood up and fought all my life for american work families. i've taken on big establishment,
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whether koch brothers, wreath, the breakup of the lackest financial institutions in the country. i've taken on the drug companies, the insurance companies, i believe we should move to a medicare system similar to what other countries have. i think people understand establishment politics is no longer working. we need mass movement, millions of people to stand up and say enough is enough. this great country belongs to all of us and not just a handful of billionaires. if people believe that, i'll win this election. >> woodruff: you're saying she can't do that? >> i don't think so. >> woodruff: i.s.i.s. just achieved a major victory in iraq in taking over ramadi over the weekend. you have said you don't think is u.s. should be leading the charge against i.s.i.s.
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does that mean raids like the one that took place last week where the u.s. took out one of the top i.s.i.s. leaders and the ongoing air strikes in syria and iraq should not -- >> no, i have supported those efforts on the part of the president. i voted against the war in iraq. i think if you go back and read what i had to say way back when, you know, it speaks of the destablessization we've seen in the middle east. so my view is the united states has to play an active role in defeating this barbaric organization, but at the end of the day it's going to be the muslim countries themselves supported by the united states and other western countries that will defeat i.s.i.s. and bring some degree of stability into the middle east. it cannot be american troops on the ground. i tell you what i worry about. i think too many of my republican friends are into
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perpetual warfare in the middle east and that scares me. >> woodruff: the raid last week that took out the i.s.i.s. leader -- >> and i supported the airstrikes. but i do not want to see warfare in the middle east and american combat troops on the ground in the middle east. >> woodruff: bernie sanders candidate for democratic nomination for president. thank you. >> thank you very much. >> ifill: now to our weekly analysis of the politics, and the politicians, driving the national debate. it's politics monday, with amy walter of the "cook political report," and tamara keith of npr. we just listened to senator sanders just now. tamara, what do we think? is there room on the stage for an alternative to to hillary clinton, whose name is bernie sanders? >> a lot of democrats would like an alternative. democrats on the whole are anti-establishment types, at least some, especially the kind who get involved in the caucuses in iowa and don't really want
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to be told well, here's your option. so there are a lot of people who are flirting with bernie sanders, like the idea of bernie sanders. they like what he has to say. so i think that there are a lot of people who are into this. i don't exactly see his path. >> there's the path to victory and the path on messaging. he was saying a lot of things about we have been hearing from hillary clinton a lot. >> ifill: hillary clinton was talking about income inequality. >> and the deck is stacked which elizabeth warren is now using. she's clearing on economic issues, i don't know there is that much room in terms of somebody like bernie sanders to outflank her. i think where her problem points are with a lot of the liberal devils will be on the trade issue and be over by the time we
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hit iowa and really on foreign policy. that's really going to be the question of a sanders or martin o'malley to really goat hillary clinton on questions of what -- not only what did she do in 2003 and the war in iraq but what about now and what about her time as secretary of state. >> ifill: which brings us to who is going to ask the questions. tamara you had a good piece on the radio about hillary clinton's question taking which is to say not very much. first of all, tell us what you found when you look to see how many questions she's taken since being a candidate. >> she had another event today and did not take any questions from reporters. so we can keep the numbers the same. she has taken 13 questions that she answered, some included how are you feeling, and something along the lines of how awesome is iowa! (laughter) not exactly but close. and her campaign feels like this is the rampup phase where it's
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not about her answering questions, it's about her hearing from people and that's whatware r they're pushing and guess what there aren't a lot of consequences. most to have the reaction i got to my story is, like, hey reporters, stop whining. >> ifill: is that a pretty good bet is it's not worth reporters to press. >> this is definitely inside baseball. this is the sort of things where voters say, you know, this is stuff reporters care about, not anybody else. at the same time, it is turning into an issue that republicans are using too, to bang hillary clinton across the head with saying, you know, see, this is just part of the theme around her. she has a secretive email server, she has secretive donors to the clinton global foundation, she has a superior sense she can play by different rules than us. answering questions? she doesn't need to answer questions, but if this evolves
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that she seems out of touch -- >> ifill: let's flip this on its head because hast week we saw what happens when jeb bush answers questions. he kept coming up different versions of his answers. does it not pay to leave yourself open? >> and she notes competing against 19 other people. jeb bush the people who defend him say well at least he was answering questions. but gosh darn it -- >> ifill: did it help? -- if there is one question jeb bush has to answer it's about the iraq war and he really struggled with it. it was a real problem and sort of planted to all the family baggage he's trying to get away from. >> ifill: part of his answer was at one point, i don't need to answer the hypotheticals. mike huckabee said, i don't have to defend everything i've done, when talking about a diabeticmation he used to pedal.
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isn't running for president hypothetical? >> i think the best way for the candidates to respond is to say this has already happened. we know that. let's stop trying to parse around hypothetical what would happen if x y or z would have happened. but what are we doing going into the future? i think that's p bigger problem for all of the candidates. iraq is a mess, the middle east is a mess. the parties have been pointing fingers between it was bush's fault obama's fault, now the candidates have to come up with is what your plan going forward. that's what voters want to hear and are not really interested in whose fault it was that it's such a mess. >> ifill: we started the conversation talking about whether there is room on the left for the bernie sanderses of the world to run against the hillary clintons of the world. is there a lot of room on the right for republicans like rand paul or marco rubio to take down jeb bush if he is considered still to be the frontrunner?
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>> i think jeb bush has this big target on himself but these other candidates are finding plenty of lane, and it's really unclear. jeb bush will some point say he officially is going to run for president and will have an amazing amount of money, but it's unclear whether he has the excitement of voters or whether the other folks officially running will keep beating him up up until then. >> this is what's fun about this race is you have so many candidates who are very qualified and they have so many different positions. this is not one sort of monolithic group singing from the same book. they have many -- you know, the many different positions which is really the big question for republicans in 2016. who is going to be able to unit all the many voices into one focused voice going into the general election. this is really a crossroads election for the republican party, who they, are what they stand for do they have a positive message going forward.
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i think this primary process will be good for them. >> if you can fit this on a debate stage. >> that's the problem. >> ifill: thank you very much. thanks. >> woodruff: finally tonight, social media as a public shaming tool. jeffrey brown has the latest from the newshour bookshelf. >> brown: in december 2013, a young woman named justine sacco wrote this tweet: "going to africa. hope i don't get aids. just kidding. i'm white." she hit "send" and out it went to her 170 followers. >> she got on the plane, turned off her phone, woke up 11 hours later and discovered that her life was utterly destroyed. >> brown: she was a twitter sensation. >> the worldwide number one. >> brown: in the worst way. >> in the worst way. it was hundreds of thousands of tweets along the lines of "we're about to get this woman fired in
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real time before she even knows she's being fired." >> brown: the blitz of online outrage did indeed lead sacco's company to fire her. she said later she thought was making a joke about her own privilege. but that's not how the twitterverse heard it. her story is just one of many told in the new book "so you've been publicly shamed." the author is jon ronson, a man who knows his way around twitter-- he has 112,000 followers and has sent out more than 45,000 tweets himself. so we're in a renaissance of public shaming, you write, brought about social media and the internet. >> yes. brought about by this sort of weird approval machine that is social media. so we start to uncover a transgressor, sometimes for some inappropriate phraseology or some tweet, and then we pile on that person because we surround ourselves on social media with people who feel the same way we do.
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we just mutually approve each other as we carry on tearing that person apart. >> brown: one of the things you're writing about, on the one hand we all have something we want to hide, or at least that we don't want coming out public, right? on the other hand, we now have this technology that allows everything to come out and it comes out in the nastiest ways. >> yes. >> brown: even about relatively small things. >> yeah! it's so interesting you say that because this is what's happening: we are destroying people routinely daily and destroying them with the thing we are most terrified would happ tus. you know we all of us have bubbling away within us something that we're just terrified would destroy our reputation if it came out. and yet we are doing exactly that to other people. >> brown: in other words, public shaming, once meted out in the stocks in the town square, is now carried out in the new town square of social media. ronson tells of numerous cases
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well known ones like writer jonah lehrer, who was caught for embellishing and fabricating parts of his stories. and lesser known tales, like lindsey stone's, who was fired from her job after posting what she thought was a funny photo of herself making a vulgar gesture at arlington national cemetery. the stories can be harrowing, and complicated-- affecting both shamee and shamer. >> i wrote about a man called hank who just whispered a slightly beavis and butthead type sexist joke to the guy sitting next to him at a conference about big dongles and the woman sitting in front overheard it and unbeknownst to them photographed them and posted it on twitter, with the comment "not cool. jokes around big dongles right behind me," and the next day he was fired from his job. and then as revenge, she was destroyed and she had two years of rape threats and death threats.
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>> brown: we're in the early days of social media, right? do you think this is the immaturity or the early period and that we might grow out of it? >> i think people will grow out of it. i think right now we're like toddlers crawling towards a gun. i hope and think my book's going to contribute to that because my book is like a visit to the slaughter house. >> brown: a visit to the slaughter house? >> yeah. i journey into the homes of people who were destroyed as a result of hitherto unempowered people having power. and not working out how to use it judiciously and they're crushed. it mangles them. >> brown: i'm wondering how you see your role as sort of investigator but participant. you even write in the book about having, as a journalist participated in shaming, in a sense. >> yeah. and i'm very glad i'm not doing that anymore. (laughter)
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>> brown: you're a reformed shamer. >> i'm a reformed shamer. you know social media like this is stage for constant artificially high dramas. everybody's either a magnificent hero or sickening villain. but that isn't true about human beings. we are dimensional. and you know what? the cure for being cast out is being brought back in with compassion and empathy. and my book is really a call for people to be more empathetic. >> brown: alright, so "you've been publicly shamed." jon ronson, thanks so much. >> thank you. >> ifill: on the newshour online, if you know who don draper is, then you are probably among those who were on hand for the series finale last night of "mad men." it got us to thinking: it was a great water cooler show, but where does it rank among television's greatest? we asked a few critics to name their top five shows of all time.
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you can see their answers, and share your own on our web site, >> woodruff: tune in later this evening, on independent lens: how a group of ordinary citizens broke into an f.b.i. office in 1971 to expose an illegal surveillance program. and on charlie rose, former secretary of defense robert gates on iran, the islamic state, and the challenges in the middle east. >> ifill: and that's the newshour for tonight. on tuesday, we look at how some historically black colleges and universities are struggling to survive. i'm gwen ifill. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. join us online, and again here tomorrow evening. for all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by:
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>> and by the alfred p. sloan foundation. supporting science, technology and improved economic performance and financial literacy in the 21st century. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access group at wgbh
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