tv PBS News Hour PBS September 4, 2015 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening, i'm judy woodruff. refugees and migrants blocked passage by rail, march on foot towards western europe. a continent split over opening doors and closing the borders. >> i would say, in the long run, we cannot have the situation with sweden. and germany takes half of the responsibility. all countries have to do their fair share. >> woodruff: then, the unemployment rate falls again. will job gains during summer drive the federal reserve to raise interest rates? plus, senators take sides over the iran nuclear deal. hillary clinton answers questions about using private email, and joe biden hesitates on a 2016 run. mark shields and michael gerson
>> supporting social entrepreneurs and their solutions to the world's most pressing problems-- skollfoundation.org. >> the ford foundation. working with visionaries on the frontlines of social change worldwide. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: the newest numbers out on the u.s. economy today pointed in opposite directions. on the one hand, job creation in august was the slowest it's been in five months. the labor department reported employers added a net of 173,000 workers. at the same time, the unemployment rate, based on a
separate survey, fell to its best place since early 2008, 5.1%. we'll get some reaction and analysis, later in the program. the reaction on wall street was decidedly negative. investors worried the lackluster job growth won't stop the federal reserve from raising interest rates. the dow jones industrial average lost more than 270 points to close near 16,100. the nasdaq fell nearly 50 points, and the s&p 500 dropped 30. for the week, all three indexes were down three percent or more. to europe's refugee and migrant crisis: crowds of syrians and others began streaming out of budapest, hungary, today; with all their belongings, determined to make it to germany. hundreds more struggled to get past authorities in other parts of the country. james mates of independent television news reports from budapest. >> reporter: it is not quite on a biblical scale, but an exodus
it certainly is. at least 2,000, maybe more, of the refugees and migrants who've been trapped at a railway station in budapest, now deciding to walk the hundreds of miles to germany and what they see as the promised land. children too were set on the road, the blazing sun and traffic on the major motorway out of the city no deterrent. it is hard to imagine this refugee could got much sadder and still more pathetic. they've clearly set out on a hopeless quest. the austrian border is much too far to walk. yet the fact they've done this at all reflects their desperation being stuck in budapest. infirmity was no barrier. there is clearly no chance of many of these people making it more than a few more miles. but they know that what they are doing will get attention and anything must be better than sitting in squalor waiting for a train that may never come. is this your way of shaming europe into helping you?
>> yes, that is what we want. >> reporter: it's hundreds of miles to the border. you're not going to be able to walk that far. >> ok. we make our way to germany. this is history. our children will know everything. a freight train is being moved in to block the view of cameras, many of those on board have now given up and are being taken to waiting buses, though other are believed to have fled down the tracks. but it's not clear there is any point in taking people to camps or reception centers. we watched a busload being brought into the center at biscke and they were fingerprinted, but barely ten minutes later were simply jumping over the fence and walking away. no one appeared to be trying to stop them.
there was a different attitude on display at a camp in the far south of hungary on the serbian border. news from budapest is enflaming opinion everywhere and here at roshke there was an attempt to break down the fence. police moved in using liberal amounts of tear gas to try and restore order. the situation is degenerating by the day. there are simply too many people on the move for the hungarians to keep them under control. the hungarian government announced it will send 100 buses to take the crowds to the austrian border of. >> woodruff: back in syria, two small boys and their mother were buried after they drowned trying to get to greece. an image of one of the children washed up on a beach, 3-year-old aylan kurdi, has galvanized a global wave of sympathy. the burial was in the family's home town of kobani, near the border with turkey. the father said he wants to stay near them and won't try to get back to europe. in yemen, 45 soldiers from the united arab emirates and bahrain
were killed today, fighting shiite rebels. officials said a missile struck a weapons depot near their post, about 75 miles east of sanaa, the capital city. the attack was the deadliest yet on the gulf arab coalition. it's being led by saudi arabia, in a kind of proxy war with iran. president obama welcomed saudi king salman for his first visit to the white house today. the president reaffirmed u.s. support for stabilizing yemen, while acknowledging the costs in human lives and suffering. >> we share concerns about yemen and the need to restore a functioning government that is inclusive and that can relieve the humanitarian situation there. >> woodruff: mr. obama also sought again to reassure the saudi king about the nuclear deal with iran.
the president secured at senator's support from colorado democrat michael bennett. 38 u.s. senators now favor the agreement, three short of what's needed to block a republican resolution disapproving the deal. same-sex couples in rowan county, kentucky began receiving marriage licenses today. deputy county clerks issued the documents, while their boss, kim davis, remained in jail for refusing to do so. the first couple at the courthouse got their license in a crush of news cameras. then, they celebrated outside, as supporters cheered and protesters booed. >> what does this mean for same- sex rights in this country? >> this means, at least in this area, civil rights are civil rights, and they're not subject to belief. >> woodruff: later, davis' lawyer said the licenses issued today are worthless. and he said he'll appeal a
federal judge's order that put her behind bars for contempt of court. and republican presidential candidate mike huckabee said he plans to visit the jail next week to meet with davis. but g.o.p. frontrunner donald trump, citing the supreme court, said same sex marriage is now the law of the land, and, in his words, "you have to go with it." and, a teacher from new york city was arrested early today for allegedly crashing a drone at the u.s. open tennis tournament. the drone buzzed over the players in louis armstrong stadium last night, before landing in an empty section of seats. the police and fire departments investigated and the match was allowed to continue. the 26-year old teacher faces a charge of reckless endangerment, among others. still to come on the newshour: how jobs added to the economy may factor into an interest rate hike. guatemala's president resigns and goes to jail on charges of corruption. and much more.
>> woodruff: as the federal reserve gets set to make a decision in a few weeks about whether to raise interest rates, today's monthly u.s. jobs report added yet more mixed signals. the number of new jobs was quite modest and below expectations. yet it comes amid some better data, and job growth over the summer was steady overall. hari sreenivasan in our new york studio gets some analysis. >> sreenivasan: between the latest jobs numbers, the volatility of the markets and worries over sluggish wage growth, there are questions over just how strong, or not, the economy is performing, and what it means for most households. diane swonk studies the jobs data and joins me now. she's with mesirow financial in chicago. this is only one piece of data heading into next week's fed meeting but it's the last piece of data and, frankly, looking at
it, it maybe would have been different three weeks ago before all of this churn in the market. >> well, you know, and the fed is data dependent so every piece gets minced to the ninth degree and this data is notoriously bad. the first time they announce it, they don't get the full count and tend to underestimate quite a bit. we knew it was going to come in low and looks like we have the bias again. for many on the the fed, they say it's enough. they say the labor market is doing as good as it can do. it's better than it was, but this is not good enough for a lot of people. but the uncertainty is it's not just this data but what are we doing going forward, so all this market volatility, concerns about growth abroad, how that will affect us, there is no such things as las vegas in the economy anymore, it goes everywhere. so we worry when things abroad
goes wrong because it can hit us on our shores. the uncertainty, it's not just today's data, the fed have to consider what are the risk going forward, they're clearly more to the down side than a month ago. how much? that's why we're splitting hairs over deciding is it going to go or not go, a few weeks away, the first rate hike in nearly a decade. >> sreenivasan: the balance act between shaking the confidence out of some markets and on the other hand overheating the economy? >> i think there is a lot of heated debate about a pretty tepid economy and the feds goal is not to take the punch bowl away from the economy but put a three-drink limit. they'd still like to get us dancing on the floor, more people out there a little bit. so i think that's also important for people to remember. when history books are written, it won't be when the fed made the first rate hike and how big
because we know it will be small, it could be in september, december, march. what's going to make the difference is how fast the feds raise rates thereafter. that's a glacial pace. that's important because glaciers sneak up but they won't do anything to quell the economy real quickly. >> sreenivasan: 5.1% is very close to what comilses call full employment. >> yeah, that 5.1 dpurnts feel like the past. we don't have the wages accelerating. wages are still very stagnant out there. you should be seeing more wage growth. wage growth is an afteraffect of a tighter labor market, but i look around and, gosh, i remember much better labor markets than this. this doesn't have the same feel and taste of a labor market that really is overheating. so i think there is going to be a lot of data and data points and what's interesting is we're
caught in the weeds. stepping back, we'll get to have all picture, the fed is having a heated debate about a still tepid economy but may be as good as they can do for it and appropriate to raise rates, splitting hairs, but still not a great economy. this economy still needs catch-up to it and the fed understands it very well, there is not much they can do. if they were a magician they would have waved the magic wand and lifted us out of this. >> sreenivasan: diane swonk, thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> woodruff: we turn now to a major shake-up in the central american nation of guatemala. on thursday morning, president otto perez molina was forced to resign. by thursday afternoon he was in court to face charges, and he spent the night in jail. he's accused of taking part in a multi-million dollar bribery operation. as the allegations were revealed
over the summer, tens of thousands of guatemalans took to the streets, demanding accountability. for more on these allegations and what it means for that country, i'm joined now by adriana beltran, a guatamala expert at the washington office on latin america, a research group that advocates for human rights. welcome to the "newshour". >> thank you, judy, for inviting me. >> woodruff: so tell us, what are all these corruption charges about? what do they involve? >> that's in april. the guatemalan prosecutors office and commission against impugn any guatemala unearthed a massive corruption scandal within the tax authority office. it implicated a number of high-level officials who essentially set up a scheme where they were accepting massive bribes for importers to be able to pay lower taxes, thereby defying the state of millions and millions of revenue. >> woodruff: and this has been unfolding over the year.
earlier this year the vice president stepped down. >> due to these charges, the vice president was forced to resign in may in. august, following more investigations carried out by the prosecutors' office and the s.e.c., they announced they had sufficient evidence to allege both former vice president and now the former president were involved in this case. >> woodruff: what led to his actually leaving office? >> since the april scandal came out, thousands and thousands of guatemalans had been protesting on the streets, demanding end to corruption, and to impunity and transformation to have the political system. it has been unprecedented in guatemala to see the number of people who have taken to the streets in a very peaceful way, but because it has brought together guatemalans from different sectors of off come
together for a common cause. >> woodruff: and the government wasn't pushing back on these demonstrations? >> not at all. they have been very peaceful. they have been happening for 19 weeks since april. >> woodruff: ga guatemala has a history of corruption and repression. what caused the people to rise up this time? >> i think there are three takeaways. one, i think the courageous efforts of the public prosecutor, of a number of prosecutors and judges that have shown that the justice system can be made to work in a country where, before, you know, they always faced the repercussions and were at severe risk for taking a stand. the work of the international commission against impunity of the s.e.c. has always been instrumental in trying to build up the capabilities of the institutions and that, you know, allowed or provoked the people to take to the streets in massive numbers. >> woodruff: so now, the former president is in jail.
does this feel like a real turning point, like things will change after this? >> i do. to me, this is an historic moment for guatemala but also ananti-corruption efforts in the region. this is not the guatemala we knew before april. got mallens know they can make a difference and started new openings for their country. >> woodruff: the vice president who's taken over, is he different? >> you have an interim government and the different sectors are continuing to work together. they're right now trying to define a common anti-corruption agenda they can push forward in the next several months. guatemalan politicians and policymakers know the population is watching and will mold them accountable. >> woodruff: what's your sense about the future? >> i'm hopeful. i think this is a tremendous triumph of hope and a
demonstration that change can happen, that justice and the rule of law can prevail to peaceful needs. >> woodruff: you said a minute ago a regional change. do you see this having an effect anywhere else in centra central america? >> i'm hoping what we can take away from guatemala and these events is we can combat corruption through peaceful demonstration, through the leadership of courageous people and the support of the international community. >> woodruff: adriana beltran, we thank you. >> thank you. >> woodruff: stay with us, coming up on the newshour: mark shields and michael gerson analyze the week's news. and, will machines help humans or replace them? finding peace as robots integrate into the modern world. a week away from an emergency
summit to discuss the refugee crisis, the countries of the european union remain deeply divided over how to handle it. sweden, the nation which has taken the most refugees in relation to its population size, is calling for every e.u. nation to take its fair share and to be more civilized. but its neighbor denmark has just introduced new welfare benefit restrictions aimed at discouraging asylum seekers from heading there. special correspondent malcolm brabant reports on the north- south divide in scandinavia. he begins in southern sweden. >> reporter: journey's end. syrians khaled al habash, in the blue shirt, and nouri shkais are relishing their new sanctuary. but habash is missing his children. he didn't dare entrust them to the mediterranean. he hopes sweden will reunite them safely.
the reception center in a country that regards itself as the world's conscience. habash can't comprehend how some europeans are hostile towards refugees. >> we are not coming here for tourism. we are coming from war. and i think who do like that are hostile to refugees. they must go to syria and see what happens in syria. my children now, under the bombs. they don't have water for one >> reporter: nouri shkais fled latakia, the hometown of syria's president bashar al assad to avoid being conscripted into the army. the destination was an easy choice.
>> in sweden, you can get a residence permit for a long time. and you can get citizenship after four years. not like danish. >> reporter: it wasn't just war that compelled saxophonist mohammed diab to seek refugee in sweden. in syria, his homosexuality could mean torture and a brutal death. he's rehearsing in copenhagen with his old damascus band mate nour moura, who was granted asylum in denmark. they want to relaunch their careers in europe. and while they wait, they have the cushion of welfare benefits. but from this week, moura the guitarist, will be the poorer of the pair. his benefits will be cut by 45%.
>> reporter: the center right minority government introduced the law to dissuade refugees and economic migrants from heading to denmark. it has the full support of the danish people's party, which came in second in june's general election. martin henriksen is their integration spokesman and sets the tone for the country's immigration policy. >> in the past, we have taken a lot of refugees in denmark. and we've come to a point where we have to say enough is enough. we can't take any more. we can't handle this type of immigration. it's too heavy a burden on a small country like denmark. so let's just step on the brake. >> reporter: as the new law was being passed in parliament, 2,000 people protested in a copenhagen square. opponents warn the cuts will inflict poverty on newcomers to one of the world's most expensive societies. >> i'm actually rather ashamed about it. because we didn't used to be like that.
there are lots of people who don't agree with the government approach to the global problems. >> reporter: at the refugee council, secretary general andreas kamm despairs at the lack of european solidarity and fears the danish government's strategy will be copied by other countries. >> it will maybe lead to discrimination, to marginalization, to ghettos, whatever. and i'm afraid it won't lead to a positive integration where people will get work, etc, etc. >> reporter: but the new government is considering tightening citizenship qualifications and making it more difficult for refugees to bring their families to denmark. three syrians are on hunger strike in protest against the family reunification process. among them, 13-year-old osama bilal, who left the yarmouk palestinian refugee camp in damascus with his uncle after his parents were killed by bombs, that also injured three of his eight siblings.
osama says he has been trying for a year to get asylum for the other orphans in his family. the immigration service says it can't comment on individual cases, but acknowledges there have been some delays over the past year because of applications have increased. >> ( translated ): if i can't bring my brothers and sisters here then i'll go back to syria. i will not stay here without them. a life here without my brothers and sisters is not a life worth living.. >> reporter: if anywhere symbolizes europe's deep divisions over the refugee/migrant crisis, it's this bridge which links denmark to sweden. the two countries are diametrically. the danes believe the swede's open door policy is hopelessly naive. the swedish government declines to publicly criticize denmark. but it's quite clear that in stockholm, they believe their southern neighbor is being distinctly uncharitable. sweden's center left justice minister, morgan johansson, is
prepared to accept 100,000 syrian refugees this year, which equates to a 1% increase in the population. >> we have actually saved 100,000 lives and i must say i'm very proud of that. we can do this. but only if we share the responsibility within sweden, of course, but also within europe. and that's one of the problems, i would say, in the long run. we cannot have the situation with sweden and germany takes half of the responsibility. all countries have to do their fair share. >> reporter: but such talk infuriates country and western loving supporters of the right wing sweden democrat party. they feel excluded from the immigration debate, look to denmark for political inspiration, and according to one opinion poll, are now the most popular single party in sweden. >> i'm very angry because you feel powerless, frustration. and i think it's time people wake up. >> it's too many people who come
to sweden. and they have no place to live. they have no place to work. and that's the big problem in sweden right now. >> society will break up. we will not have cohesion between the different groups in this society. so there will be a split in society which can turn out to terrible political consequences. >> in this country, you only need to say "i support the sweden democrats." everybody says you're a racist, you support hitler and everything. you like the holocaust. just because you support the sweden democrats. and that's wrong. it's a very big difference between nazis and patriotism. >> reporter: party leader jimmie akesson is a divisive figure in swedish politics and requires strict security because of his outspoken views on immigration. >> ( translated ): the government is raising taxes by
seven billion dollars. seven billion. denmark, which is just a few hours from here in that direction, has far more reality- based politics. in denmark they have a completely different, meaning lower, level of immigration. and in denmark they are now choosing to lower benefits for non-citizens. in denmark they are succeeding with what it is claimed is impossible to do in sweden. >> reporter: but there are more extreme forces at work across scandinavia. these swedish right wingers marched on a refugee center after a rejected eritrean asylum seeker was accused of stabbing two swedes to death in an ikea furniture store. >> reporter: and in western denmark late last month, an asylum seeker took this video of in the car park of his hostel as it was vandalized and attacked. growing reluctance of refugees to head to denmark means this
reception center will close soon. but new arrival moheddin hajazieh is relieved to be here. he left syria to escape being conscripted into president assad's army and dreams of opening a barber's shop. >> i will try to return what this country gives me. if they give me id, or nationality or anything, i will try to make good with this country. it's my new country. maybe i will be a denmarki. >> reporter: at the protest rally, other syrian asylum seekers demonstrated their gratitude. like sweden and some other european countries, they want denmark to be more hospitable to those still in danger, but it's doubtful there'll be any compromise in this corner of scandinavia. for the pbs newshour, i'm malcolm brabant in copenhagen.
>> woodruff: we'll get analysis of the european migrant crisis from shields and gerson in a moment. but first, a look at the latest political divides here at home. it's the issue that's loomed over hillary clinton's campaign: her use of a private e-mail system as secretary of state. and today, it dominated her interview with nbc's andrea mitchell. >> my personal email use was fully above board. it was allowed by the state department, as they have confirmed. but in retrospect it certainly would have been better, i take responsibility, i should have had two accounts, one for personal and one for work related. >> woodruff: still, clinton said she does not believe the controversy will cost her the nomination. she declined to comment on whether vice president joe biden will enter the democratic race, saying people should give him the space he needs to make "a
difficult choice". he was asked about the possibility last night, after a speech at a synagogue in atlanta. >> the most relevant factor in my decision is whether my family and i have the emotional energy to run. the factor is, can i do it? can my family undertake what is an arduous commitment that would be proud to undertake under ordinary circumstances? but the honest to god answer is i just don't know. >> woodruff: and on the republican side, donald trump struggled thursday with questions from radio host hugh hewitt about the leaders of terror groups. >> now i don't believe in gotcha questions. and i'm not trying to quiz you on who the worst guy in the world is. >> well, that is a gotcha question, though. i mean, you know, when you're asking me about who's running this, this, this, that's not, that is not, i will be so good at the military, your head will spin. but obviously, i'm not meeting these people.
i'm not seeing these people. >> woodruff: on a different subject, trump repeated today he'll seek to re-negotiate, but not repudiate the iran nuclear deal. that's the cue to turn to the analysis of shields and gerson. that's syndicated columnist mark shields and "washington post" columnist michael gerson. david brooks is away. welcome, gentlemen. so we've just been listening to a little bit of politics to the week. hillary clinton, an important interview today. a lot of questions about at the mail server. she said she wished she had done it differently. she said it wasn't the best decision. what do you make of that? i mean, has she put this behind her in any significant way, this issue? >> no. i mean, she was apologetic, she was contrite. i think it's fair to say. it's an interview with andrea mitchell who is not only a respected journalist but who has
covered mrs. clintnan washington very well for a quarter a century, so there weren't going to be any screw balls on the interview's way. i think it's in the f.b.i.'s hands, now, and we're going to continue to have the e-mails released a month at a time. this story is still with us and will remain with us and it will be part of the runup to iowa. the one question that strikes ms as i listen to it today is every president has that one person who can say, no, stop, you're making a fool of yourself and doing the wrong thing. the counselor to eisenhower and ford and nixon said, everybody, i don't care how powerful, the chairman, c.e.o., president, when they walk into the office they're ready to tell them.
she needs someone to say no, you can't do this. the question is does she have someone now. >> woodruff: i heard her being asked is there someone on her staff to say this was a bad idea? she said she didn't think when she did this. >> one of taps she gave with us oops. she didn't likely think of it at the time. that's her argument. it strains plausibility for people who have been in government that know how much emphasis is put on recordkeeping and secure communications when you're at high levels in the executive branch. it's just a big deal. you know, the federal acts that relate to records. so it doesn't have the ring of truth in that case. she's also well behind this story. we've found this week that the f.b.i. is now investigating
possible security breaches, like the russians and chinese with her account. we learned she has an aide taking the fifth amendment. we learned there are at least six e-mails that she sent that have classified information in them. i mean, these are serious things, cumulative things that she has not provided a very good answer on. >> woodruff: but, mark, at the same time, hillary clinton, the people around her have been saying you're making a mountain out of a mo hill, there was nothing nefarious going on here, anything that was classified was made classified later. >> that is their defense and position and it's tough to argue with and the example is her trying to give a speech given by tony blair the british prime minister publicly that could not be sent because it was classified gave you somewhat an indication of how overly classifying the intelligence area agency is. i will say this ability
secretary clinton today, her answer to andrea on joe biden was pitch perfect. i mean, it was human, it was natural, it was very personal in the best sense and it did not have any political angle to it that i could detect. >> woodruff: she asked her, do you have a comment about the fact that he's considering running, and she said, it's not for me to say. and she went on to say he needs the space to think about it. >> yes. >> woodruff: michael, we ran a clip of what the vice president said last night at the speech in the synagogue in atlanta. do you think he gets the sense he's leaning away? he clearly didn't sound like he was there yet. >> i get the sense you're seeing the process in public exactly what he's thinking about this. it's one of his appeals is this transparency. this is a family that underwent a terrible trauma three months ago that, you know, a trauma like that can strengthen a
family, but it also can be a difficult time, and aptle campaign brings minute and massive scrutiny. he can come in here -- he does not fit an ideological gap, but there is an ethical gap that he might fill. the worst thing that's come out of the email situation for hillary clinton is one of these polls recently about what are the top three words you can think of when you think of the candidate and it was liar, dishonest, untrustworthy. those are serious issues that come out of the email situation. >> woodruff: and she was asked about that today, again, mark, by andrea mitchell and she says, our campaign goes on and i'm not worried about that, and we feel good. >> it hasn't been a great six months since hillary clinton entered the race. she still is the frontrunner and
favorite and is still obviously quite formidable. on joe biden, his greatest virtue may be also his occasional vice and that is that total lack of artifice and i think he was being totally frank with that audience last night in atlanta and i think he's saying, judy, with the possible exception of asking someone to be a life partner, the most personal decision anybody makes is the decision to run for president. it is a difficult, painful, and he knows from personal experience it can be heartbreaking. >> woodruff: and you're asking your family -- >> you're asking your family, i have a wonderful reputation, do i want to risk it all, all of that. it's really difficult. >> woodruff: let's turn quickly to the other party. donald trump yesterday did what he said earlier he wasn't going to do. he met with the head of the republican party and said he would sign the pledge.
he held it up for everybody to see and said he pledges he will not run as an independent or third-party candidate if he does not get the republican no nomination. >> well, i think the image of the head of the rnc making the pilgrimage to the trump tower in order to get some assurances is exactly what he wants. he looks in control. this is the man who wrote the art of the deal. he has taken the r.n.c. to the cleaners and has done a good deal because he now has gotten what he wanted and the pledge he made is less than useless. he can just comment and say the republicans violated their part of the deal, i was treated unfairly, he builds his case. this is a man who has changed some of his most fundamental political views over the last few years in order to shift. this is not going to be an obstacle for his ambitions. >> woodruff: what do you say about that? >> i couldn't say it better. i think the idea that the chairman of the republican party and the states requested that he
to this in order to run in those states, they're changing their own rules, that comes to him and become almost a prop for donald trump to do his declaration and take shots at the other candidates and the chairman had to stand there and do it, take it in all the time. i just think this fuels the fire of mr. trump's lack of humility. >> woodruff: i gather prevism with him before the race. does this change anything? >> i think jeb bush and others are taking him on. the question becomes what happens on the 16th of september when they have their next debate? you recall just four years ago, i'm sure michael does, the governor of minnesota was a very
formidable candidate and he went on television on sunday and talked about obama-romney care, the affordable care act based on mitt romney's. 24 hours later when asked about it, he wouldn't say it, ant his campaign -- he wouldn't repeat what he said 24 hours earlier. so this is the test. it's one thing to say it a thousand miles away. will they say it to him. >> an interesting test to jeb bush, will he repeat the criticism he's making to trump's face? they have been stuff. he's not a consistent conservative but is also using racial dog whistles. will he press the debate in the case? that will be fascinating. >> woodruff: i want to turn you to the terrible humanitarian crisis we're seeing over the refugees in europe. we're seeing the pictures that tear at your heart. we showed again on the program a little 3-year-old boy, mark, a
syrian child whose parents were trying to get him out of there and into europe. how do we think about where responsibility lies in all of this? i mean, where should we be looking? i mean, there is disagreement we heard tonight hungary is providing buses, but a lot of refugees want to go to germany, france. who should be stepping up right now? >> well, you know, i think angela merkel is probably the exemplar that point. germany is the slice of slightly smaller than montana. if they take 800,000, that's the equivalent of united states taking 3.2 million refugees. you could say, yes, europe is aging. these are young, vibrant, hard-working people, these refugees are obviously overwhelmingly that. they're young and dedicated and energetic and ambitious but, you
know, judy, i am surprised it has not become an issue in this campaign. >> woodruff: what do you mean. i mean, these are refugees from afghanistan, from syria, from libya, not totally divorced from the united states policy and presence and invasion and military actions in the middle east. what do we have? we've taken 1800 syrian refugees over the last four years in this country. >> woodruff: i heard trump ask about it and he said it's something the u.s. might have to consider doing. but, michael, where do we look at a time like this? >> when you look at responsibility, you have to look at president assad, who destroyed his own country out of his own arrogance and brutality, and then i.s.i.s., which has,
you know, taken root in the ruins. but we also have four years of american policy that's not been very active when it comes to syria, and we had a number of american officials, including hillary clinton, david petraeus, leon panetta, john kerry, who proposed more strenuous action to strengthen proxies to try to push for a peace agreement and to try to undermine the capacities of the regime to perform mass atrocities, and the advice from those people was not taken again and again, and we're seeing some of the results of relative inaction, i think. >> i will just say, without getting into an argument with michael, it's 15 years, now, of the united states policy there. we did, in fact, topple the most formidable adversary we had in
saddam hussein. we left a shiite government who showed no respect for rights of the sunnis and out of that grew i.s.i.s., and i.s.i.s. is not just -- did not come from the bow of any greek god. this is a direct consequence. i think that there is no will in this country, right now, for military intervention. i think that has been killed. i can listen to dick cheney and read his book from now till the cows come home, but there is not even a third of the congress who would vote to send in military action and do limited accomplishments with air strikes. >> woodruff: the debate goes on and i'll guarantee we'll hear more about it as this campaign continues. mark shields, michael gerson, thank you both and have a good labor day weekend.
>> woodruff: now, another new addition to the newshour bookshelf. tonight's focus is the brave new world of artificial intelligence. jeffrey brown has that. >> brown: is it man against or with machines? do machines help, hurt us? robots are seeping into more and more of our lives burks how much are their value and impact understood and accounted for? such questions are part part of a new book that looks at the last decades of artificial intelligence and robotics, entitled "machines of loving grace." author john markoff is a long-time science and technology reporter for the "new york times." welcome. >> thank you. >> brown: "machines of loving grace," sounds great, right? a little bit original, a little human love but more complicated.
>> right, and i might have put a question mark after it. >> brown: okay. ecause i think we can go down and probably will go down both paths. my point is it's a human choice at this point. these machines are not evolving by themselves. they're hume designers. >> brown: you're making a distinction. you're coming up as a reporter and making a distinction between machines that are replacing humans and those that are sort of helping us. >> yes. >> brown: give me an example of why that's important. >> go back to interactive computing and i noticed there were two labs on either side of stanford, one thought by john mccarthyy, he thought in 1962 it would take a decade to replace humans. another man, doug engle bart invented the mouse and helped with the worldwide web and he wanted to build computers to augment. there are two philosophies and they don't talk to each other and the idea is to square the
circle, bring them together, and you. >> brown: and you're thinking about the ethics. a lot of thinking goes into the making of the products and the machines, not enough into what they're for. >> we're at an interesting juncture where machines are starting to do autonomous things. cars are starting to drive. we're replacing humans in certain places with systems that are robotic and artificial intelligence, and the designers need to make ethical decisions about what they embue the software and robots with. >> brown: are there example where there is interesting thinking going on about this, even at the level of the lab or the product making? >> there is a lively debate around something as seemingly simple as autonomous vehicle. when you imbeau the cars about decisions on where to go, they
will run into situation where is they have ethical decisions to make. >> brown: to hit or not hit. it's called the trolley problem, philosophers have been debating it for years you go this way and run over five people, this way and run over one person. i think it's a false dichotomy. as we become more distracted, the problem for the robots is an easier one because they always are on, they never get distracted and the robots will talk to each other so we might not have a trolley problem because the robot will know if there's another robot or pedestrian or bicycle there. >> brown: thinking about what robots can or cannot do, you think about what it is to be human. what else it that only humans can do? >> well, i have been asked that question. what is it to be human? and i think that the nature of humanity is found between the interaction that you and i have and it's actually something that makes me slightly hopeful
because, even though we're being surrounded with all this automation technology, there is the possibility that interaction between you and i might actually become more valuable and, you know, it might work out that way. that would be great. >> brown: what would be a better approach for designers? what sort of questions should be asked as they're designing new products? >> increasingly, it is possible to take the human out of the equation. if you're in a purely capitalist system and it's just a question of cost, then why not? here's an example. there is a wonderful small startup in san francisco called momentum machines that is going to make hamburgers. a lot of people worry about this because not only are they on the verge of automating the people who take your order but they're talking about taking the fry cook out in the back, too. but he's not planning on doing it that way. he's going to have a human concierge who will be there to oversee the whole process, even though you order your hamburger with a smartphone and apparently
get the perfect hamburger, he realizes that's not a great job, being a concierge in that situation, so he made a deal in the planning where he'll offer the people who work in his hamburger stands the ability to get an education and do something different after two years. that's an example of rethinking the situation. you and sri had the same job in our entire career. in the future people will go through many jobs and we have to retrain them. >> brown: are you arguing this is a fundamentally new situation? >> we are in a new situation because a.i. technologies that didn't work in the past are working now. machines are listening and seeing. but, at the same time, what's really interesting about the anxiety we feel now, you can't just take a snapshot. you have to realize that the human population is changing dramatically. for example, in china, they have a one-child policy and the chinese population is aging. it might be the case in china that the robots come just in
time which is a very counterintuitive idea. >> brown: why just in time? ecause the workforce will shrink and you will need robots and at the same time you will get agic effect of the population and maybe elder care robots will come in time to take care of us. >> brown: john markoff, "machines of loving grace." thanks very much. >> thanks for having me. >> woodruff: a post script, you can spend some quality time with jeff tomorrow, when he hosts a day-long livestream report from the library of congress' national book festival. 170 authors will be in washington. tune in from 12:00 to 6:00 saturday, find it on our home page, pbs.org/newshour. >> woodruff: on the newshour online right now, one of our making sense columnists has an idea: what he thinks would lower the mass murder rate in the u.s.
economist john komlos argues that universal mental health insurance and other social services can reduce violent crime, but of course, it would cost taxpayers. read his full commentary, and weigh in yourself, on our home page. and amnesty international recently called for the decriminalization of consensual sex work by adults. it sparked a vigorous debate. it's also the topic of the latest episode of our podcast "shortwave." find a link to listen, our home page, pbs.org/newshour. and a reminder about programs to come from our pbs colleagues. gwen ifill's preparing for "washington week" which airs later tonight. here's a preview: >> ifill: the president leaps a big hurdle toward gaining congressional approval for the iran nuclear deal, but the fight's not over yet. and in 2016 campaign politics, we talk party loyalty, or lack thereof, bilingual
communication, and the value thereof, and whether hillary clinton's frontrunner status is in peril. that's tonight on washington week. judy? >> woodruff: on pbs newshour weekend saturday, will tougher domestic violence laws be enough to protect women living on indian reservations? >> reporter: brunner says that as an adult, she seldom went to the police, and that much of that has to do with the fact that some of the men who attacked her were not native americans. >> i knew when i had been raped and been victimized and whatnot, i never tried to report it because nothing... i knew nothing would ever happen. i knew nothing would be done. >> when you have the combination of the silence that comes from victims who live in fear and a lack of accountability by outside jurisdictions to prosecute that crime, you've created if you will, the perfect storm for domestic violence and sexual assault, which is exactly what all the statistics would
sort of bear out. >> woodruff: that's tomorrow night on pbs newshour weekend. and we'll be back, right here, on monday, with a special labor day discussion on the fight over raising the minimum wage. that's the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. have a great weekend. thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> and by bnsf railway. >> carnegie corporation of new york. supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security. at carnegie.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and friends of the newshour.
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