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tv   Charlie Rose  PBS  May 24, 2016 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT

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>> rose: welcome to the program. tonight tom done illon former national security advisor for president obama takes a look at the president owe trip to vietnam and what it represents. >> vietnam, we have had for the last 20 years an increasingly close relationship. this takes it, as the president said, to a new level and really points it to kind of fully engaged and normalized relationship. i was in vietnam in the summer of 1995 on the trip where we reestablished relations with vietnam and raised the flag over the embassy in hanoi. >> rose: and we conclude with a remarkable and wonderful penelope cruz. her new film is called "mama" i don't look for characters to be a therapy but so many times they become their pute kal, and i do loont-- don't like forcing that to happen. but when it happens it is such a great feeling. because so many of your own ghosts and your own things that
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you cannot even talk to about with anybody, are going to be released. >> rose: tom donilon, penelope cruz when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose is provided by the following: captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. we begin this evening with a look at president obama's foreign policy. the president made history today in hab oy where he announced-- in hanoi where he announced the u.s. would lift a decades long arms embargo on vietnam. >> this change will ensure that
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vietnam has access to the defend itself and removes a lingering vestage of the cold war and underscores the commit am of the u.s. to a fully restored relationship with the vietnam including strong defense ties with vietnam in this region for the long-term. >> rose: the move marked the beginning of a week-long trip to asia. the president's tenth since taking office. the visit comes at a moment of renewed concern over china a regional aspirations and raises questions about the u.s. pivot to asia as recent developments threaten to divert the president's focus once again. earlier today the white house confirmed a u.s. drone strike had killed mullah mansour, the leader of the afghan taliban. meanwhile investigators are continuing to probe whether egyptair flight 804 was brought down by terrorists. joining me now from washington, tom donilon. he was national security advise tore president obama from 2010 to 2013. i'm pleased to is him back on the program. tom, welcome. >> thank you, charmie. nice to be with you. >> tell me what this trip is
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about. and the significance of vietnam. >> yeah, thank you, charlie. as you said, this is the president's tenth trip to asia. and it's part of what has become known as the rebalanced asia. which is one of the president's most important geo strategic initiatives of his presidency, frankly. it is rooted in the belief that the future of asia and the united states are tightly tied together going into this, the 21s century. it involves an investment across-the-board in terms of all elements of national power. diplomatic, security and military, economics through the ttp which we can talk about. and in terms of his time which of course is the most important asset that the president has day in and day out. it's meant to reinforce the leadership role the united states plays in asia. it's meant to extend the fact that the united states has been, has provided the platform for asia social economic development for three quarters of a century. the president came into office, believed we were underinvested
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and has gone about increasing that investment. the vietnam piece of it is an important part of rebalance. rebalance involves as you said at the opening, investing in and paying a lot more attention and engaging with our allies but also with emerging nations in asia including vietnam, and it involves a rebalancing of overwhelming emphasis on northeast asia to southeast asia as an important part of our interest as well. vietnam we have had for the last 20 years an increasingly close relationship. this takes it, as the president said, to the new level and really points it towards kind of fully engaged and normtallized relationship. essentially i was in vietnam in the summer of 1995 on the trip where we reestablished relations with vietnam and raised the flag over the embassy in hanoi. and this had been a long process, president o obama the third president to go there, president clinton was there in 2,000, president bush 43 was there in 2006 and now president
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obama is there now today. trying to again fully normalize this relationship. and to take advantage of the fact that vietnam has indicated it is prepared to really engage and deepen its partnership with the united states. >> rose: so we're giving arms to vietnam. what are they giving to us? >> it's, as i said it is a fully engaged relationship. let me talk about that. vietnam is one of the fastest growing economies in the world. and an important place for investment by the united states. they have engaged in a much closer security relationship with the united states in a variety of ways. we by the way in 2014 made a decision, the united states did, to provide mar i time assets to the vietnam. and what this is, deepening of security relationship, between the united states and vietnam. it's also as the president said, getting rid of a cold war vestage this doesn't mean the flood gates are going to open up for arms sales to vietnam automatically or right away. each arm sale will have to be
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looked at on its own merits and different kinds of conditions can be applied including human rights conditions. but the insight here is that a flat out full ban no longer serves the u.s. interest. >> rose: you mentioned human rights. john tipton, the asia policy director of human rights said president obama just gave vietnam a reward that they did not deserve. >> well, i disagree with that. i think what this is about, i think it's the right balance for the united states to strike, frankly. we have a really obviously key strategic interest in asia and in southeast asia in particular. we have a strategic interest in advancing our relationship with veelt nam and across-the-board, economicically, diplomatically, security and in terms of human rights, and we have an opportunity here to use the leverage of potential additional security relationships to leverage a further progress on human rights. now i'm not here to defend the vietnam human-rights record. i don't think anybody who is informed about it could at this
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point. but it does provide us with additional leverage going forward, but really important, charlie, is this is a strategic step by the united states to take into account all those elements that i mentioned. >> but do we raise the question of human rights. tony blankens what said who you know well, has said in a speech he made last month that there has been some progress on human rights. that is in anyway our relationship conditioned on more progress in human rights. >> well, a couple of things, there has been some progress. i don't think we should overstate that progress with respect to the regime and vietnam am but there has been progress in terms of the relationship between the united states and vietnam on the security, economic and other areas. which are important to us. you know, when we talked about the top of the conversation, the rebalanced asia is really critical. the u.s. engagement in asia, us providing this platform to balance and provide assurance, particularly in the face of a rising china is absolutely
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critical to continue the stability and economic progress in asia. so and last as i said, with respect to-- with respect to the arms sale to vietnam, those can be conditioned on human rights, human rights steps by vietnam. so there is some opportunity here for leverage. i wouldn't overstate it to date but i would try to put it in the context of the whole relationship and the strategic interest of the united states. >> rose: i left out japan in talking about the number of countries we look to to have good relations. not to contain china but at the same time to have a presence there. what do they expect from us with respect to aggressive behavior by china? >> yeah. they expect the united states to be present. these countries expect the united states to keep its alliance obligations, that is to protect these countries. they expect us to continue to provide the nuclear umbrella that we have provided. and the region, again for three
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quarters of a century, do the thought experience. think about what this region looks like absent the u.s. engagement here. and that the under prime minister abe the japanese u.s. alliance has gotten i think as deep and as intense as it ever has been. the president also when he's in japan will also visit the memorial at hiroshima. >> an attack on japan, an attack on south korea, an attack on any other country will be met with what kind response? >> well, not any other country, the alliance countries. >> okay. >> i mean the other countries in the alliance. >> exactly, yeah. >> i think at that point the united states and we would stand together to defend gensz any attack. and what does that do? that makes a likelihood of any such attack much, much lower, right? you know, the fact that you would have to face the united states in a situation like that makes the percentage chances of such an attack much, much lower. keeps stability in the region at a much higher level than it
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otherwise would be. because there is one thing clear. no military in asia, including the chinese military could ever hope to take on the united states. >> rose: yet at the same time they have been aggressive actions. they have come too close to our ships. they have in other areas have buzzed our planes. and many americans saying how far can they go. in one case russia, in one case china, without us responding other than simply protesting diplomatically. >> yeah. it is a fair point. and in asia, russia is a different circumstances where we are engaged in a much more hostile relationship than we are with china where we have overall generally productive relations. but china has been very aggressive in the south china sea. and there are disputes in the south china sea that involve a number of country, including vietnam, by the way, philippine and others. and the key i think for this is if several fold. one if the united states is to remain present in asia, we've
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also indicated that we're going to increase the percentage of our overall aviation 1/2al asset by 06% by 20/120. third it's important for the united states to continue to enforce these key principals what are they, a freedom of navigation, settlement of dises putes by a peaceful means, international laws is the way forward. so the united states as you know, charlie, has in the last year been quite present and is engaged in freedom of navigation exercises. a close end to some of the formations that the chinese claim to be their own. so it's important for the united states to be present and reinforce these principles. you know, a couple of years ago the chinese tried to put in place or declare a aviation zone, if you will. aviation defense zone near japan. the united states said we won't recognize it. we flew through it and that's kind of gone away. it's important for us to again maintain this balance and reassurance in southeast asia.
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the big security problem looming in asia is north korea. >> rose: exactly. it's hard to know and how to ascertain exactly what the north korean leader is doing. should we expect the chinese to do more? they obviously are doing more than they were in the past. with all these kinds of we lige rant acts by the north koreans, shouldn't we expect more from the chinese who have the better relationship? >> yeah, i don't know about the quality of the relationship. they certainly have more leverage than anybody else. i think the relationship between the chinese leadership and kim jungun, the north korean leader, has deteriorated. and the chinese have expressed frustration about that. he has not been invited to beijing, for example, nor has the chinese leadership been to yong yang since he came in in december to 10 or so. i think this. that yes, the chinese have the most leverage. next the chinese have engaged in
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a pushing the north koreans not to engage in some of the more outrage us prove kaitions they had been engaged in. third, the chinese after this last set of prove kaitions, in fact, did go to the u.n. with us and put in place the strongest sakss that had ever been put on north korea. but here's the problem. the problem is this is now a test for the u.s. china relationship, i think going forward. because we have to enforce these sanctions, there are some loopholes have to be closed. and the north koreans have to be squeezed here. there has to be some price paid for the path they are on. the path they are on is exceedingly dangerous, charlie it is a combination of continuing to develop missile technology, including i think their goal of developing missile technology that could reach the united states, of developing more nuclear weapons and developing miniaturized nuclear weapons that could be put on these missiles that could reach the united states. and that is an intolerable situation for a u.s. president to face. and that's the conversation with the chinese. >> rose: so what is the red
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line there? >> well, i mean, you know, i hesitate to try to identify a specific red line, you know. but i think it is as we-- as northed korea, again moves towards having an icm capability where it could launch a nuclear weapon against the united states, the united states is going to do a number of things. for example the united states is going to deepen its relationship with japan and south korea. second, the united states, and this is already under way and ash carter has said this is going to happen, the secretary of defense, we are going to have to build out more intensive missile defense systems there. more exercises, more presence, more pressure, including, i think, regime-threatening kinds of sanctions, so what is the chinese reaction to that the chinese reaction to that is neglective. the chinese reaction is the united states building out extensive and more missile defense systems, become more deeply involved militarily in the reg orn makes the chinese more strajly uncomfortable. that's the conversation. because we say to the chinese leadership, and i have had these
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conversations with them as you know over the last few years, is this is not about you. this is not aimed at you. this is aimed at the regime in yong yang. and we at the united states and our allies here have to take steps to protect ourselves. what are we going to do about it together, and what are you going to do about it specifically to get these guys off the path they are on because it is unacceptable to the united states. i think it is the biggest security threat in asia right now. and the next president will probably face a crisis on it. >> rose: the president told me in germany when i went over there to interview him that, he said essentially what you just said and said that they're even looking at the most technological new developments in terms of nuclear shields that they can possibly develop. >> yeah, so this is again, this is the conversation that the united states a having and needs to have more intensively with china. i also think we need tone gage with china on some, and they've been very reluctant to do this. you can understand some of their reasons to do this given their alliance and history with northed korea. needs to talk about what happens
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there if you have a collapse of this regime. we need to have these deeper conversations with the chinese. and the chinese in the year 2017, the key test of the u.s.-china relationship is going to be what are we going to do about north korea. >> rose: okay. let me make one last question about china. >> sure. >> rose: as a private citizen, an informed private citizen, not a member of this government as were you at the highest level, how do you assess the mindset of xi jing-- xi jinping. >> yeah, that's a big question, right. and a lot of people are working on that every day. i think a koip el of this things. i think the ski observation that i would have is that number one he has amassed a tremendous amount of power at the center in beijing, right in his office, across a number of issues. number one. number two, he faces tremendous pressure, charlie. they are trying to undertake one of the great economic, social
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transformations ever attempted in history, to move from this export investment-lead economy to a more domestic-driven-- domestic consumption driven economy. they're trying to do it at the same time while they're trying to reform the communist party in terms of anticorruption of the and he's trying to deal with nationalist trends which he in some ways has put in motion. what do i think the most important thing that he thinks about every day, how to maintain control. how to maintain the monopoly control that the communist party has in china because he thinks that's the way ahead for them in recall its of the development that they-- and reforms they have to have. and i think he sits there and i think if you and i, let's do another thought experiment here, i think if we could see the thought bun el over his headlining in a cartoon. it would say, i'm not going to be gorbachev. that's what it would say. i'm not going to give up a communist party control here, control generally as we go through economic development. >> rose: well, they essentially made that decision a long time ago when they said
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we're going to focus on economic change rather than political change. clearly though he is aware of how there is some pressure against the party. so therefore he fights corruption, and he tries to make the party more efficient. so that it will be able to maintain the kind of control that it has. let me move. >> but that's corruption, anticorruption effort in china right now is vast. hundreds of thousands of cases. you know, and the pressure at home that he has puts on society in various organizations of china has been intense. again, i think trying to consolidate control of the communist party and ensure it continues as they try to go through these various transitions that we have talked about, which is an extraordinary challenge for this country and for him, personally. >> rose: it seems to me that as the president very much, the president in asia wants to enhance that relationship across-the-board, he wanted to
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pivot from the middle east as it was expressed. were you part of that idea. and yet he gets drawn back in. back in in terms of taliban and afghanistan. back in in terms of iraq and supporting the prime minister. back in in syria, because of the events there, and the inability to figure out by anybody an alternative to assad. >> yeah. well, i say a couple things about that. the united states is a global power with global interests and we vp stabilities around the world. and absent u.s. leadership and actions, these situations would not be addressed. second is that he has been, i think, and demon straiblly determined to not just, again we have to deal with these problems where we are trying to manage security threat like in afghanistan. but also to keep his eye on where the opportunities are as in asia. and keep his eye on the most important relationship in the world and that's clearly the chinese u.s. relationship going forward. that relationship is really going to tell a lot about how
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the 20th century goes. now having said that, there say big difference between us having, we have been 10,000 troops right now in afghanistan, supporting the afghan government and taking action principlably against isis and al-qaeda and having 150,000 troop there. >> in afghanistan that's not the threat. the threat is the taliban, and what they are the people who occupy the territory. and are moving into places that they had not been able to hold. >> yeah. >> i mean the taliban having the last year in or picked up additional territory in afghan, no doubt about that. and they have had a relentless insurgent effort against the afghan government. and the afghan security forces have taken a lot of casualties, right, and been under a lot of pressure. what this action against mullah mansour was, had a couple of elements to it. it's a signal to the taliban that they should get-- they should come to the table with respect to the peace talks that
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have been kind of fledge ling for the last couple of years there. it is a signal that in fact the united states is not going to, is going to act when it sees itself and its nato allies under threat from the taliban. and not jups a threat from al-qaeda and isis. and indeed the united states is under threat by the actions of the taliban in a number of instances including in kabul where just in april there was a massive bomb thrag killed 65 or so people. and i think it's a message to pakistan that, in fact, the united states will continue to act against-- will continue to act against taliban leadership in pakistan if they continue one, to threaten the u.s. and nato forces. and two, they don't show any interest in coming to the peace table. so the mansour action, i think, is part of that, is part of that analysis. >> does this say that the united states is prepared to do whatever it has to do and pakistan is no longer a safe
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haven for the taliban? >> well, you know, i'm not so sure that if we had been able to target the senior afghan leadership before that we wouldn't have taken action, action against them. i think it is important to underscore that if a group continues to target the united states and our nato allies, that they are going to be subject to attack by the united states. and the president has made that clear from the time he ran for office. and with respect, for example, with respect to al-qaeda. where he ran 2008 and said that if we knew where a bin ladin was, even if he were in another country and pakistan for example that we wouldn't hesitate to take in lateral action against him. >> rose: the president also announced he is send 2-g 50 special forgses to syria. and he said to me in an interview at the white house in the last six weeks that they are going to be doing a whole lot of
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things and be eyes on the ground and be talking to people that are going in and out of rocca, also more trips-- troops in iraq as i suggested. there seems to be an effort on this president even though he has held to his strong position that he is not going to reengage a large amount of american troops, to get some things dn before he leaves office. >> i think that's fair, charliement and there are a lot of things that the united states can do between doing nothing and putting 100,000 troops on the ground. and i think you're seeing that in both iraq and syria. where the united states is focusing on training up those indigenous forces that can push back begins and defeat isis. this say big effort in a tough effort. but at the same time, becoming more increasingly, more closely involved in terms of the training and advising of these groups, in order to enhance their effectiveness. what has to happen in my judgement in iraq and syria, and i think it is happening, is that the narrative of success that isis has had, the narrative of
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success that has allowed isis to recruit from around the world, that has allowed it over time to have 35,000 so foreign fighters come into the theater in syria and iraq, has to be broken. and the way to do that obviously is to take back territory, decap tait their leadership and really importantly take back some of these cities which are very symbolic. the iraqi government announced it's moving on fallujah. and i think over the next period of months there will be pressure mut on mul and ultimately put on raqqa and syria as well. but i tell you what, as we do that, we also have to keep our eye on the external activities of isis, external meaning outside the iraq-syria theater, war theater. and that's a big challenge for us going forward to we're in a new phase here where i think isis, as they get squeezed, and they will get squeezed, charlie n iraq and syria, as they get squeezed, they will act out externally from there. we're seeing that in libya.
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and most importantly we saw it in europe, brussels and paris. >> it seems to me just watching from where i sit at a small table that the u.s. las some really good sources where these people are. i mean mansour knew that he must know, at any isis leader or any taliban leader or any al-qaeda leader knows that there is nothing more the united states would like than to get them available for drone strike. >> yeah. >> rose: and yet we show find out where they are. there have been a significant number of successful strikes against top leadership in the aforementioned groups. >> yeah, there have been. i think that's a tribute to the u.s. military and our intelligence services. and it's an important message to sinned, right. it's an important message to send that in fact that these groups are not infallible. that they cannot continue the kind of unended narrative of success. and that we'll act against them that san important message to send to these groups.
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and again and it doesn't involve us sending 100 or 150 troops into a war theat tore do it, right. we have other meds, methodologies and resources as you were just discussing whereby we can undertake these projects. now we may have to intensify these efforts. i think that is what is going on by the way in iraq and syria. we are intensifying these efforts. it feels to me, again i no longer have the responsibility for overseeing these things am but it feels to me like the top levels of the u.s. government are pushing hard to make progress against these groups. the president is pushing hard to make progress against these groups. because they did now present, and they have to be defeated. there's not going to be a peace conference right with isis, it will have to be defeated. and they present an external threat as we saw in europe. europe is where a lot of work needs to be done, by the way charlie, with respect to their acts, getting their act together among the european nations in terms of nrvetion sharing, intelligence sharing, controlling the boards.
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they're making some progress but a lot more has to be done. >> rose: we have to leave it there. tom, thank you so much. >> great to talk to you, see you soon. >> rose: tom done illon from washington, back in a moment. stay with us. >> penelope cruz is here. her collaboration with acclaimed spanish director put her on hollywood's radar more than 15 years ago. she became the first spanish actress to receive an academy award in woody allen's vickie christina barcelona in 2009. here's a look at some of her most memorable roles. >> z when did they find you? >> -- (speaking spanish) 7 z.
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>> we don't need to be so formal. >> do you play the piano. >> yeah. >> would you play for us? >> too many people. i would freeze. >> you know there's something about you that invites a kind of formality. >> what do you mean? >> what did they say in high school, they said i was a genius, right. >> i always encouraged your talent. >> not talent, i'm not talking about talent, i said genius. genius. >> i came close to killing for you. >> you came close to killing me. >> my darling ♪ who's afraid to kiss your toes. ♪ i'm not.
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♪ your mama's here. ♪. >> slander. >> yes. >> valt entina valencia, interpoll, global fashion division. >> fashion police, we're clean, lady, go harass somebody else. besides i'm out of fashion. >> i need to talk to you. it has to do with the death of captain. >> rose: she now stars in spanish director julyio medan latest film. here is the trailer for "ma ma." >> tell us, and i will do. >> (speaking spanish) (speaking
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spanish) 67 ♪ ♪
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>> rose: i'm pleelsed to have penelope cruz back to this table. welcome. good to see you, it's been. >> a few years, a couple of years. it's always great to see you. >> rose: thank you. >> really happy. >> rose: tell me about "mama." >> what can i tell but it, there is so much. >> rose: let's just start with who magda is and the relationships that magda has and what happens to her children and her gynecologist. >> so this character that i love so much, i fell in love with her the moment i read it, i felt this need to play her. >> rose: now that is because what, you-- as of the last four or five years have become a
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mother. >> well, i'm sure it has something to do with that. but also the subject, the way it touches the subject, i felt it was really honest. at the same time very original, very peculiar because she is a very peculiar character. >> rose: yes. >> you never know what she is going to do or say next. >> rose: and she's living with cancer. >> and in the beginning of the movie she-- her husband leaves and she's a single mother that is looking for a job as a teacher. and everything is chaos. and then they tell her well, on top of that, you do have cancer and you are going to start treatment tomorrow. and she says but wait a second, tomorrow what do do i with my son. and have i a hair appointment tonight, should i keep it or cancel it. and when i read that, i thought, this is so clever because and that is like constantly the character. like how real it is that kind of reaction of somebody telling you, from this moment on, your world, i'm telling you, your world is completely upside down and nothing makes sense any more. and she's like on survival mode from that moment saying no, no,
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no. but have i a hair appointment. she's not listening because she can't. she's like you are talking to me about somebody else. and i thought in most movies that i have seen when characters get this kind of news, it's immediately like very dramatic scene where the character has total understanding. and acceptance of what is going to happen. and what is happening to them. and it's never like that in life. i've seen the most crazy reactions when people get those news. and actually they are not crazy. they are like really, you want to hold on to your life to the normal little things that you have to do that day. and this person is telling you that-- . >> rose: everything is changed. >> everything and you might die in a few months. >> rose: which would be? would you be in instant denial because i have these other things i have to do? or would you say okay, i understand. how do we get on with trying to address this? >> i'm very different from magda in the way that-- she probably does her check ups once a year,
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once every two years. as i think have i told you before, i'm a little bit of a hypochondriac is doing two checks per year. so i would not want to leave that office. i would want to be there with that doctor and get all the answers. and i would drive him crazy, which what what i do even with a cold. so we're different. but i understand her. >> rose: i wouldn't want to be your doctor. >> yeah, maybe it's no fun. >> rose: and she's pregnant. >> well, then she gets cured. and then the cancer comes back. and in the middle of that, she's starting this new relationship with a man that is also going through recovery of a huge tragedy in his life. and they-- . >> rose: lost his wife and children. >> and they need each other. they recognize something in each other. and they start this relationship. and she becomes-- she gets pregnant in the middle of that. and she's creating life. her body is creating life. she has two hearts beating inside her but at the same time she has this cloud on her, this
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monster that is trying to take her away from this world. and then she decides to try to create this family for her son who is ten. and he has nobody else in the world. and she-- we're not going to say what happens, if she's going to make it or not, but she does great, huge things for this kid. and she creates a family for him. >> rose: and she's also caring about her gynecologist. >> yeah. she has a very special relationship with this doctor who also sings to her. i mean in this movie there are a lot of things that are very risky but in a great way because this is julyio marin's world. he has a very special way to see the world. and that's in the way he tells these stories. but i've always been in love with his movies. and i think this movie, when people tell me that it makes them go home and hug the people they love and tell them whatever they were not brave enough to say, this is like the best, best compliment that they can give us with a movie like this. >> rose: what is interesting too, you have interesting back drop. first there is soccer.
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football. >> yeah, and she doesn't know anything about football. and in that way, i think we are kind of similar. because i don't know a lot about football. >> rose: you don't? >> i mean, i really-- . >> rose: javier must love football, disunt he? >> in my family, everybody. i have people from different teams that i feel like i don't want to pick one because i don't want to fight with all the members of my family with barcelona or-- . >> rose: that is so you. >> but i enjoy watching it with family and friends. but i am not, like i don't see all the games. of course, imagine, with the world championship, and all of that for all of us, it incred. >> rose: so what dues real madrid mean to snu. >> no, i mean, i have great respect for all the players and all the teams and i don't want to get into choosing one. have i managed to all these years not to have to choose one team. i don't have to now. >> rose: have you ever gone to a game? real madrid? >> actually, have i never
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been-- . >> rose: never been. >> at the stadium. really, i mean i respect football but it's not really something that i do, is go and watch games. >> rose: do you have any sports, do you play tennis, do you sail? >> you know, i was a dancer for 17 yeerps so all my free time went into that. like i was dancing four hours a day when i was training. because i wanted to be a professional dancer. and then if i was going to go see something, i was-- i'm going to see football or baseball or rugby, i was going to see ballet because that was my world for so many years. >> rose: do you continue to take-- pay attention to ballet? >> yeah, as a fan of it, you know. cuz i-- that was my world for so long. and my dream of becoming a dancer. >> rose: when you and i talked for 06 mince, i mean, what it did to your feet was like cruel. >> yeah, but i didn't care. >> rose: you disn care. >> they teach you, i mean i remember being really young and your feet are bleeding and they
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are asking to you smile at the same time. but it's-- like some kind of med traition-- meditation that you go through that you learn to really deal with pain in a different way. that's the only way that you can become a dancer. my sister is a professional dancer. i was never anything close to a professional dancer. but i did enough years to know, like, it's the hardest thing, the hardest profession. it's really, really tough work. and have i so much respect for the dancers. >> rose: how have children changed your life? >> in every single way from the first second. i always said it's like a huge internal revolution. everything seems different. you are reviewing your own childhood again. and kids become your own masters too. you are teaching but they are teaching you constantly. they keep you really present. really there. and it's amazes how you-- the way you look at things again, like christmas or looking down at the park and look at the way
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an and is picking the food. and taking it to their home and think that things i never did for so many years since i was a kid. it's really, everything changes. there are some fears that you don't have any more. but you have so meaj new ones, like substitutions. >> rose: but all of a sudden are you caring for something more than yourself. >> you care about them more than you care about anything in the world. and if from that second, it's immediate. it's not-- it doesn't have to gradually, it's incredible. i could not believe it and you hear it from your parents, your grandparents, your friends, but when it happens to you, it's like, oh, this is really magical. this is-- . >> rose: magical. >> it's magical but it's so raw and it's so-- like they take you to mars. it is the most wonderful experience in the world for sure. >> rose: so how is the work right now? >> it's good. it's good. i mean i have this movie that i
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produce ma ma with julyio. and we were really lucky to put it together. and we were really lucky that it got sold to most territory. >> rose: people say are you the best thing in it. >> well, i don't know. we all put a lot of love into it and a lot of effort because as you know, it's so hard to get a movie made. especially a little movie like this. and for me it's really important to be now here, you know, sharing it also with ts territory and. >> rose: but at age 42, with two kids, with all that had happened to you, do you feel like you are in a great place? >> sort of? >> i do. i feel like every day-- you start again. and are you going to learn something new, and not all the lessons are easy. but i'm always up for that adventure. it's-- an incredible challenge. >> rose: were you in zoo lander two. >> uh-huh. >> rose: every time i turn around there's some story about
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you in some movie. you are working all the time. >> i don't work as much as before. he used to work in four movies per year. i was working nonstop in my 20st and part of my 30st until i said okay, i know very well all these characters but what is my own. i was starting to worry about that. and i changed that rhythm. but way before i became a mother i said no, this was-- i was ending up with no time to prepare those characters, to explore who they are. that is the part of the process that makes me more happy, when okay, i want to play this person and let's see, let's have the time to breathe it, to see who this person it. for example in mama i worked with a lot of patients and with disok tors. i needed a few months to do that. >> rose: what did you learn in that kind of preparation? >> i learned so much. and just for the movie, it's about life, about this fighters, these women, their strength. not only about how hard and
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cruel and all the things they go through, but also emotionally what they go through. and they showed me their scars, their buddies, the other kind of scars. they said everything with me. so for me this movie is for them. it's an homage to all of them. >> rose: homage to all of them. >> yeah, because it is tough, very tough. >> you came to los angeles at one point in your life. and then it wasn't the best period of your life. we talked about this before. because of the roles and because of the things. and then it picked up and then you won that oscar and you live in madrid now. >> yairks you about i don't-- i only have good memories from that. >> i know i was really young, i didn't speak english. somebody gave me a role, somebody i admired a lot. and i came with my ticket, on the return ticket so i felt safe. i felt like i'm going to come here and do a movie and then i got another role and another role and it came-- it was like one after another becoming like a possibility to have my career here. >> rose: but we have talked
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about this before. at the same time you were not as fulfilled by acting as you would become. >> gradually you get more of that trust from directors,rom producers to imagine you in roles that they haven't seen you do before. and we depend on that. we depend as actors, we depend on that trust. and you know, thanks to people like-- many directors that i have worked with, that they decided to imagine me in things i had not done before. even if it were through a casting or three castings or whatever, i was never had a problem to do those type tests. it was part of thing. but i remember that period as a normal part of our process, also for somebody that didn't speak english. >> you weren't not running around unhappy. >> no, i was actually very surprised that they were giving me opportunities to work in france, in italy, in america, in my own country, to be able to
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work in all these places. i never dreamed of being able to do. >> are you surprised about how huge you are now. are you surprised about how good life has been to you? >> well, i'm always very grateful that i can wake up in the morning and do a job that i love. because how many people and how many young people wake-up and say what do i do with all hours. >> rose: how many people wake up and don't have a job. >> that's what i mean. they have no-- they don't leave the house. there is no motivation. they want a job. they are prepared to have a great job and they don't have it. so for me, because i come from a very humble family, you know, like very little money. my parents had to work so hard to raise us. so those values are what i have been raised with. and i say like the job that i love since i was a little girl, i have the privilege to make a living out of that job. and this i will never take for granted. every day of my life when i wake up i feel like i can go and do
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this, that i dream when i was a little girl. and can i still do it now. >> rose: your moth her a hair salon. >> yeah. >> rose: which i saw. >> yeah, yeah. you went through it i remember. and you saw this street from my grandmother's house. >> rose: yes, and people in the windows would all say penelope. >> have i great memories from that walk that you and i talk in madrid. >> rose: but there is also, could you, if you had to, could you cut someone's hair well today? you. >> yes. >> rose: you could, couldn't you. >> yes. i have cut selma hayek's hair. >> rose: also with candle light. >> it's true. she had to go to a premier and she had no light in her house and she let me do everything. and people i cut their hairs,ed ones that really trust me. i learned how to do everything in the hair salon of my mother. that could be my other job, if things don't go well. and i love it. because i told you, that hair salon for me was really my first
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acting school. >> rose: exactly. >> because to see all these women, the way they behaved with my mother, how they told her all their secrets about their relationships and all the different personalities, the ones that were pretending to be something they were not. i was there behind my book pretending to study but i was really studying human behavior. it was fascinating. >> rose: i have said this often before and people know this. the same thing happened to me. because i grew up in a store, you know. and my parented owned the store. and i had to work in the store. and so i learned everything about the people and the customers. and you became comfortable with people. and you understood how to ask questions of people. and you understood how to be outward with your curiosity. >> yeah. >> rose: all of that comes at a very early age from being able to-- being put in an environment. >> yeah. >> rose: where if you are paying attention, you can learn a lot. >> it's a great school for life. and for me, because have i always been fascinated by human behavior, and i thought like wow, there is always something
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more to learn. that's why in my job i always say like it's day one, every role is like first movie, because you are playing somebody you have never played before. >> rose: and do those understanding those roles in some way shape you, you know, in terms of you inhabit a character but you take something from a character that adds to your own life because it is a wakening in a sense. >> i think so. because you have a feeling of what that experience could have been. and also i don't look for characters to be a therapy but so many times they become their beut-- their pute kal and i don't like forcing that to happen. but when it happens it is such a great feeling because so many of your own ghosts and your own things that you can not even talk to about with anybody are going to be released in the emotions of those characters. >> all the things you are pulling from inside to add to the character. >> yeah. when it happens in a natural way, i think when it is forced, the odd yengs can tell, no.
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and it becomes more of a nars sis particular game of my own feelings about the subject. but when it is done from another place and it just happens, if is a very, very huge relief and release of many things that are stuck. >> that written side. >> uh-huh. >> rose: so pedro when you work with him and you two began to work together, he could imagine you in all kinds of roles. he had that much confidence and he gave you that kind of freedom. >> yes. he's been so important in my-- i mean he's one of the most important people in my life. and also for my career, the first role that he gave me was in life, this woman that was a prostitute that was giving brirt in a bath. and a woman that-- . >> rose: i remember seeing the movie. >> do you remember? and this character was ten minutes in the movie but it opened a lot of doors for me because he was so different from everything that i did before.
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and then all about my mother, very broken, everything we had done together and we hope to do more together, because we always talk about that, and we really love working together. and i really mr. so grateful to him for his trust. because he saw something, you know. >> he liberated you in part. >> yes. and we were saying before, giving you material that nobody else has imagined before. and in many ways, he was, you know, one of those people that for me have represented like a very big change or push in terms of, you know, getting more diverse material. but also woody allen and-- fern nando. >> what did he do? >> vickie christina barcelona, that character was really, really important to me. i was not getting characters
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like that. and i don't know. i think that many, many in my career that,-- luna who is not with us before, gave me jamon and they gave me those characters that were like day an night, so different and they came out in the same year. and i was 18. and that was like the beginning of, you know, starting to get all the offers. and starting to work. >> you see the kind of roles you really want to do? >> we're going to do a movie, javier and i are going to do a movie about pablo escobar. and these are extremely interesting characters to may. >> based o on a book. >> yeah. and it's not just about the book. >> pablo. >> yes, i play pablo anfern nando leon wrote the script and will direct it. and this i think is truly the movie about escobar that tells who this man was and who-- she
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is alive, she lives in miami, and we got the right for the book. and this is a very interesting project. and then also i think i will work with as gar fer adi in his next film because i don't know when the script is going to be finished. but he's writing the-- he had a treatment that i read and i loved. >> that's what about? >> it's very, very, very intense dram blanca but he doesn't want us to tell the story yet. t it's an incredible character. and i think he's one of the greatest directors that the world has right now. and but i also very much am interested in producing more and in directing. and i just-- . >> rose: directing. >> i directed some short films for you know, we have a lingerie line that we designed my sister and i, an our line is called-- and i directed short films for the company. >> rose: you mean as to sell the product. >> yeah.
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and now i just directed a documentary about children luke emia. >> oh yeah. >> so it was ma ma and kind of a year in between and then almost like half a year with the documentary. with children, with very young children that are now in my heart forever. and they are such masters. i mean it is like an 80 year old man in the body of an eight year old. these kids really i can say have changed my life because what a lesson. i have learned a lot about the lack of investigation for cancer in children. >> rose: the lack of what sth. >> investigation. >> rose: investigation. >> and there is so much to talk about. and we have 30 minutes in the documenterrary. but we just try to give a lot of information. but also to find ways where people can contribute for a foundation in spain. we went to donate everything we raise to this foundation called one in 100,000 that focuses on
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investigation for children leukemia. so this project i'm very passionate about. >> are they making some medical progress in terms of children and leukemia. >> i have talked to a lot of doctors. and they say that they could if they had more help. but there's less investigation when it's related to children because the number of cases is much lower than in the adult group. and this is not me saying it, they say that themselves. >> rose: one of the nice things about being you, beyond intelligence and the experience s that people will respond to you. i mean if you call up a researcher or a doctor or someone who is on-- who sliving with cancer, they're going to talk to you. that is one of the power of being penelope cruz. >> well, it is just my small contribution. but i rather put my time in something like that. this came because i work with a company in spain who does jewelry.
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and they said they wanted me to work with this foundation. an had the idea why don't you direct a documentary about what this foundation is doing. and these children, this group of children that have been working with. and i met them. i completely fell in love with them. and i jumped into this. i spent time with families. and with the kids and with the doctors. and in is what i showed is just i created a space where they could share what they go through. the mothers that have lost their kids because of this, and the kids that have to revive this, and have gone through the most, it's really a crazy, crazy treatment. they suffer a lot. and just them, sharing with the audience the experience that they go through and i just want to create ways that when somebody sees a documentary, they can contribute, even if it's just a little bit. but everything will go to this foundation and to investigation because i like when i do things
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like this, that is very sperveg, you know. even if i'm involved with a lot of different projects but i like when it's specific, it's for this foundation and it's for investigation. and then i know the purpose and even if it helps one person, i don't care. but it will make a difference. >> rose: god knows you have purpose. it's great to see you. much success. >> thank you, thank you so much for everything. >> rose: thank you for joining us. see you next time. >> for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at and charlie captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh
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>> funding for charlie rose is provided by the following:
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man: it's like holy mother of comfort food.ion. kastner: throw it down. it's noodle crack. patel: you have to be ready for the heart attack on a platter. crowell: okay, i'm the bacon guy, right? man: oh, i just did a jig every time i dipped into it. man #2: it just completely blew my mind. woman: it felt like i had a mouthful of raw vegetables and dry dough. sbrocco: oh, please. i want the dessert first! [ laughs ] i told him he had to wait.


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