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tv   Charlie Rose  PBS  September 15, 2016 12:00am-1:01am PDT

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>> rose: welcome to the program, i'm andrew ross sorkin filling in for charlie rose away on assignment. we begin tonight with a look at politics and the media, i'm joined by brian stelter of cnn and ben schapiro of the daily wire. >> you may read a hundred stories where it feels like trump is being let off the hook, the press is going easy on trump. there are a hundred other stories on the facebook feed where he is being severely screut niezed, rig losely covered. we live in a choose are your own venture, choose your own news environment which makes it increase leigh difficult for the audience to get to the reality of the situation. >> we continue with ray kelly who discusses his new book vij lens, my life serving america and proteching its empire city. >> i think the lone wolf threat is going to be with us for a
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long time to congress come. the self-radicalized or small groups who through the interin the become radicalized and then decide to act. and what we have seen is after they do radicalize themselves, they act pretty quickly. so it's difficult to predict who is going to react to the thousands or hundreds of thousands of tweets that come out and we conclude with charlie's regular sment with steve sharsman, c.e.o. of blackstone with three students of the inaugural class of schwarzman scholars. >> i have learned just as a person to have good lifetime subbing cease you have to have unique experiences and unusual understanding of what is going on. not just simply academic input. because the academic input is great at all the places where they are. so this is something where when you finish this program, academics will be excellent with you what you are getting is a unique look at a unique country.
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>> toll politics and the media, former police chitioner-- commissioner ray kelly and steve schwarzman. >> rose: funding for charlie rose is provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> good evening, i'm andrew ross sorkin of "the new york times" and cnbc. it is my privilege to be filling in for charlie rose tonight who is on assignment. the media's coverage of the presidential campaign has been a topic of interest throughout the primary and general election season. donald trump's handling of the press was no doubt a decisive factor in his path to securing
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the republican nomination. this week hillary clinton's health is now the latest source of rampant speculation after delay in revealing she had pneumonia. brian stelter is the host of cnn's reliable sources which examines the world's top media sorses each monday. from los angeles ben schapiro, columnist, author and editor in chief of the daily wire, formerly a top editor at breitbart news and i'm pleased to have both with me. brian, let me start with you. and let me start with the issue of hillary clinton's health. there was a lot of speculation about hillary clinton's health in the news med why prior to the revelation of these images, prior to her disclsure about pneumonia. you called some of the spejlation-- speculation back then reckless. you called trump hannity a reckless. now that this news is out there was it still reckless. >> some of the figures feel vindicated today, baskets are a popular phrase, let's use baskets for this. there say basket of legitimate
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questioning about hillary clinton's health. some conservative commentators fit into that basket. they are right to wonder about her health in some cases. then there is this other basket, the truly deplorable basket. sean hannity fit nooses it, so does rush limbaugh, alex jones and others. these are people who bring up rumors an innuendo about her health and have been doing it for years. i'm not saying hannity or limbaugh fit into these, some of these figures want her to be sick. they want her to be dying. they want her to be on her death bed. it is wishful thinking. that is some of this bs that is on the web, on facebook. that is the problem with media is this stuff then pop lates our facebook feeds and twitter feeds and become this innuendo that we don't just see on the front page of "the national enquirer" which is an offender here, but also seeps into the public discourse. that is why i think the hannity ares of the world are responsible. >> do you think the quote unquote mainstream media should have been asking questions about her health before? >> i think the mainstream media was asking those questions.
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it wasn't necessarily all broadcast, right, but i do think many reporters had been questioning her health. especially with her coughing fits and things like that. en she was diagnosed withkeabout pneumonia, the reporters did not know until sunday. partly that is because he campaign kept it a secret and partly it's because it's very hard to get inside the innercircle of the campaign. maybe on saturday and sunday morning reporters should have been trying harder to get that information but st disturbing the campaign withheld that and disturbing the campaign kept the press in the dark for 90 minutes when she left the 9/11 memorial. >> you are listening to brian here. and i'm curious, i'm curious where you land on this issue. >> when it comes to the media coverage of this, no, i don't think the media was asking the appropriate questions about hillary clinton's health, five days ago, sick days ago asking why we shouldn't be ask any question, why you are going to release your health records, a consist ent record of hacking this much, none of that is il legitimate. i agree with brian that baseless
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speculation these videos that go around, that she has park insons or ms all is nonsense. >> exactly. >> you know, having doctors on the air to try and diagnose hillary based on the fact that there is tape of her coughing is silliness. my wife say doctor and currently in residency. she wouldn't be diagnosing people based on 30 second. >> what is the appropriate way to do it. >> that is deplorable behavior. the difference between reporter and rumormongering, there is too much wishful thinking, rumormongering, what we need is less guessing and more reporting. >> this is jim rudenberg in "the new york times" writes a colume trump is test the norms of objectivity in journalism. he says balance has been on vacation since mr. trump stepped on to his golden trump escalator last year to announce his candidacy. democrats say that trump has gotten $2 billion in free advertising, free media. >> free coverage. >> republicans say that mr. trump has gone unchallenged. and i'm going to go to ben first. do you think there is true and utter bias in the media? >> yeah, i mean i think there is bias in two directions.
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>> do you think it is a conscience buoys. >> yes, obviously there is conscience bias in the media and the general identified unconscious bias most of the people in the mainstream media are people who are democrats and will vote for hillary clinton come november. and they don't reveal that before they go on air. so yes, unconscious bis has an impact on how people perceive these particular issues. cnn, msnbc have run chie rones back checking trump thrks is another a cry ron on cnn or fact checking clinton. that is bias in one direction. in the other direction, this is true for the trump campaign there has been an unconscious lowering of the standard of decent we maf-- behavior for trump in the sense that if donald trump shows up in mexico and doesn't really do anything supremely note worthy, this is considered a major victory for his campaign. if he goes into a debate with clinton and doesn't act like an insane loon bag that will be a big win for him. there is a lowering of the standard because the new standard for normal campaigning has been left behind. if they held trump to mitt romney's standards, there is no
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way he would have gotten nearly this far. >> do you think the med-- media is truly down the middle, if you will. >> there is a complicated definition of fair innocence this election. not all lies or misstatements are created equal. sometimes you look at the kie ron, the banner on the bottom of the screen, it may not be fact checking that hillary clinton lied because that lie may be more complicated, more nuanced, may take a lot more explanation versus some of what trump has said. i think in this election fairness does not mean 50/50 coverage of each candidate and 50/50 treatment. these candidates are not equal. they are not even in that way. and i think ben is right. there has been a lower standard of treatment for donald trump. there is a lower expectation for him among many members of the media. i always hate to talk too broadly about this because. >> why is that. >> why what? >> why do you think then, if you believe that donald trump has gone unchallenged, why do you think that is the case. >> i think he has been challenged many times. but the treatment is different for a couple of different reasons. number one, he has been up until recently very accessible to television networks in
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particular. at the same time simultaneously running a tv-driven campaign, media driven campaign and anti-media campaign. this is the definition of having it both ways. he attacks the press on a daily basis. and there are reasons to think he is a true threat, there are reasons to think he is a true threat to press freedom even though he recently relaxed his so called black list of some news outlets am that is all true. at the same time he has been very accessible, answers lots of questions. >> and to the extent that people think that he has gone unchallenged, it is because of his accessibility he has gone unchallenged. >> i think it is because of the sat raise, the saturated news environment we live in. you may read a hundred stories where it feels like trump is being let off the hook where it seems like the press is going easy on trump. a hundred other stories on your facebook feed where he is being severely screut niezed, rigorously covered. we live in a choose your own adventure, choose your own news environment which makes it increasingly difficult for the audience at home to get to the kreelt of the situation.
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>> i'm assuming that the assertion that there is balance in the coverage of trump or that he has gorch unchallenged you will disagree with. >> i wildly disagree with that. he has gone challenged on virtually everything. the problem with trump is he gives ten different positions, different positions for the same issue. and so it makes it difficult for anybody to finally get down to what does he actually believe about something because he will shift on a dime and we have seen him do this on debate, this is a challenge for the media. but the issue that hillary clinton gets off scott dpree because her scandals are too compli complicated. they are not complicated at all. >> i'm talking about the banners on the bottom of the screen. >> she will say things like i never had classified material on my server and the fbi said no, you did have classified material on your server. the kie ron underneath said clinton colin no classified material on my server and there is no parenthesis that says not true but they will do that with trump all the time. this sort of quawsi, you know, even-handed treatment t doesn't really exist. trump is always perceived to be
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fibbing. and sometimes that's true. a lot of the time he is fibbing. with hillary she is always perceived to be telling the truth and then later if it turns out she is lying the media retroactively rushed to coverage, like with the health situation, with the email server situation. for months all we heard about the email server was it wasn't a big deal until the fbi said it was. >> i don't know what shows you were watching. what i hear sometimes is the victimization narrative from conservatives. i would point out there are many liberals who are equally frustrated by news coverage this year. i'm interested andrew in how much anxiety and fear there is outright fear among liberals about the prospect of a donald trump candidacy and how that is being, they're taking that out on the media in many cases. >> let me ask you this. both of you have talked about this issue of fact checking. and i wonder how you feel or what you feel the role of the journalist is supposed to be. we have a series of debates coming up. chris wallace from fox news is going to be one of those moderators. he recently said truth squatting
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was not his responsibility, that he didn't see the idea of fact check on the fly being something that he should be doing, it is a show don't tell approach. what do you think the role of the journalist is supposed to be when it comes to these upcoming debates. >> we work for the viewer at home. we work for the reader who is reading our work. to the extent that the viewer is misinformed by a candidate, the moderator needs to help the audience understand what the truth is. sometimes that can mean going to the other candidate and making sure the other candidate rebuts it, sometimes with a carefully crafted followup question, as you do on cnbc. the followup question can be the fact check. but sometimes i think the moderator will have to step in and explain what the facts are. the reality is not all lies are created equally. sometimes it is very hard to fact check what a great story. is but some stories are black and white. that is why donald trump is a unique challenge. could you argue set biggest journalistic challenge of this debated-- decade. it's not clinton should be let off scottfree, she shouldn't be. she does make misstatements.
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trump is uniquely challenging. you add clinton to the stage, this is the hardest task the moderator have faced in modern times within the role of a journalist, the responsibilities as the debates approach us. >> the role of the journalist in this case when it comes to debates is asking the followup questions. a lot of the fact checkers out there including organizations like fact that do have a bias an where they will simply grant certain amounts of credibility to candidates based on the political appeal of those candidates or political leanings of those candidates. it's dangerous to me to vay moderator up there who says donald trump what you are saying about vladimir putin isn't true. hillary clinton what you are saying about your emails is or isn't truement because there ar many interpretations, unfortunately, of a lot of these issues. but it would be good to be able to say donald you weren't saying this a year here say clip you of you not saying it a year ago. let's stop pretending it is that difficult a job it really isn't. we have seen these candidates for a year it isn't in the sense that we know what they are going to say. if you have been watching trump for a year, you predict what he
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will say before he says it and clinton is absolutely predictable. so if you know what they are going to say you should have a followup prepared for every question if they say what you think they are go to. >> if the pod raters don't step in i would say the television networks, major papers have a real responsibility even more than normal to provide fact checking right after the debates. then of course it on the viewers at home, the readers at home to actually check, followup, to lyully-- actually look into the information ourselves. we are so devided, so on our own sides right now as tribes, but the information is out there if we want it. there is more information available than ever before. but we have to work harder to access it. >> let me ask you a question about the mainstream meeting. i am looking at you because you look at cnn. >> mainstream media. there is an argument that as been made that the mainstream media has not been aggressively covering hillary clinton. and that much of the most aggressive coverage is actually emanated from some of what might be described as a conservative or right wing media, i'm thinking of organizations like
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judicial watch which freedom of information requests for some of her emails, for example. do you think that is a fair assertion? >> i think to some degree it is. that is a valuable part of the media ecosystem. it we are better off to have outlets that are explicitly conservative, like fox news and others. we will also better off to have liberal outlets like salon and-- places like that. we're better off to have that diverse and that variety. but i would point out "the new york times" assigned amy chosic years ago, cnn assigned to years ago and there have been thorough investigations from mainstream media. there is a distinction between outlets that come with a point of view like fox news and outlets that try not to come with a point of view. >> ben, i'm assuming you think nobody comes without a point of view. >> well, i mean i think obviously trying to separate, using brian's language, fox news into the opinionated basket and cnn into the nonopinionated basket, anybody who objectively views both understands will is an editorial bent to the
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networks. when it comes to let a thousand flowers bloom, obviously i agree. i would point out the distinction. you sorlt of shifted away from the fact the judicial watchers name, they have done most of the heavy lifting on a lot of the clinton documentation here. judicial watch is not a media outlet it is a 501c3 organization that gets the deums from the federal government and why the "washington post" wasn't doing that or "the new york times" or you as cnn weren't doing that is a question that really ought to be looked at. >> where i disagree with you is judicial watch is a media outlet. all of these groups are media outlets. >> i would also say trump's campaign and clinton campaign are media outlets. buds feed pointed out, all these outlets are media outlets but we should take that seriously. >> that has been a change in our medio ecosystem. that all of these outlets, fon profits, companies are media outlets. again, it's harder for the audience at home, it puts more of the onus on us to sort through it all. >> but the fact is judicial watch, the way it works because
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i know the folks there, if they actually receive documents from a foyer request it is not like they have the power of putting it in front of millions of people like cnn. they pitch their information to media outlets who either pick it up or don't pick it up. so putting everybody in the media basket basically say there is no such thing as the media. an individual with a cell phone is the media. >> i think are you a media company and i am glad you are because i can subscribe to you now. >> i appreciate it. and i hope everybody subscribes at daily as long as we are pitching things but i do run a media company. but it's a media company that actually has readers and spends money to market our material and actually try and get that out there. judicial watch is getting documents from the federal government. why is it right-- right now we know that the media are trying to unseal donald trump's divorce records the in ivana trump case. why weren't they foyer hillary clinton state department records. >> the associated press was for years they went to court and get them and recently waws. >> ot bama administration was trying to crack down on the ap
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for other reasons. earlier this this segment you were talking about the fact you thought trump was a threat to press freedom. i don't disagree with that but the fact that ilry want when she has been less than forth coming with the press and obama has been maybe the worst guy for the press in the modern president sees, as i think again just evidence of bias on your part. >> it is not bias on my part. i agree clinton is also in some ways a threat. trump has taken more explicit steps to curtail the press. there are behaviors of his campaign that are more troubling but clinton is no friend of the media either it would seem that either of these candidate was continue president obama's troublesome relationship with the media. >> jea gentleman, on that note, is a debate that is not going to end any time soon. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you both. >> thanks so much. ray kelly is here. he was new york city's longest serving police commissioner before stepping down from the force in 2013. following the attacks of september 11th, he created the first counter terrorism bureau of any municipal police
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department in the country. he also established a new global intelligence program with new york city detectives stationed in foreign cities. he writes about this and more in vij lens, my life serving america and protecting its empire city. it is currently out in paper back. currently serves as vice chairman of k2 intelligence and we welcome him to this table. thank you. >> great to be with you. >> when you go back to september 11th, 15 years ago now, and think to yourself about what you thought could and would happen to this city when it comes to terrorism, if i had asked you then whether this city would have suffered some form of terrorist attack, what would you have said? >> i would have said absolutely. and it would have been very soon. could you feel that in the city, there was a lot of gloom and doom and it wasn't a question of if, but when. and quite frankly, the pundits were saying that, they were writing that. and we knew that.
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when the bloomberg administration came in, we wanted to do things that at least gave people a sense of comfort, sort of addressed those concerns. so we did a lot of things. and we did it quickly. we put in place a counterterrorism bureau as you said. we devoted over a thousand police officers to it. we assigned officers overseas but there was in the 12 years of mayor bloomberg's reign, 16 plots against the city. >> you write about it in this bookness. >> i do. they are in the book. some of them were defeated as a result of good work on the part of law enforcement, the fbi, nypd. and some of them just as a result of sheer luck. we just didn't know about these events and plans that were aimed at us. >> dare i ask the same question now, 15 years from now, you think about new york city. how well-positioned are we to prevent the next one? >> well, it depends on what the next one is. i think that the lone wolf
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threat is going to be with us for a long time to come. that slt self-radicalized individual or small groups who through the internet becomes rad allized an decide to act what we have seen after they do radical ize they ak pretty quickly it is difficult to predict who is going to react to the thousands or hundreds of thousands of tweets that come out. >> why haven't we seen a lone wolf in new york city? >>. >> we saw the attempts an i think we have to be ready for within and it is very, very difficult to prevent. i think the country, and new york city is has done a much better job of addressing the 9/11 type complex, lots of moving parts type plot that could be directed at the city. we spent a lot of money, devoted a lot of resources, but it is that individual who sitting in his basement who decides to kill
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his fellow countrymen. that is what we are concerned about the most. >> what aren't we doing that we should be? >> you know, i think we are doing everything that we reasonably can do. i mean you look back in history and say hey, you should have done this or that overseas. but we are where we are now am and i think the fbi is doing a good job, in rolling people up throughout the country for material support to terrorists. they have arrested over a hundred people, probably, in the last two to two and a half years. we have the tsa in place. those sorts of agencies and resources that have been put in place at great expense to the taxpayers. i think they're doing a reasonably good job. >> when you look at the security of this city, and compare it to others in the u.s., what is the margin? what is the difference? >> well, the difference is significant. but new york has a much greater threat than other locations.
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although san bernardino an orlando threw us off a little bit on that. but new york is the biggest target in the terrorist minds. it is the capitol of the world. so anything that happens here, definitely will reverberate throughout the world. so we have devoted as i say a lot of money, a lot of resources and the government has devoted a lot of money here as well. >> but you have 10 million people a day here on a business day. we're an open society, so many people have said. so you just are not going to be able to prevent everything from happening. but new york has done much more than any other city probably in the world. >> i want to ask you about the the relationship between the american public citizens and the police. there seems like there is a greater divide, a sense of distrust that hasn't been there before at a level that is greater than ever. you see it with black lives matter. you see it with football players
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like colin caper niblg taking a knee during-- colin kaepernick taking a knee during the national anthem what do you make of that? what is that about? >> there is no question that some of these very disturbing video shootings have set back the relationship between the police and certainly communities of color in this country. from my van taj point having been in policing 45 years, the relationship is much belter than it was-- much better than it was many years ago. but the advent of these videos has set it back. people have lost some trust in the police. and i think it's something that has to be worked on every day as far as police commissioner, a police chief or police officers are concerned. because of the nature of policing. police are asked to do the dirty work in society. make arrests, give you-- be the bearers of bad news. so it's something that is problematic.
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and i think certainly developments can increase that trust like the wearing of body cameras. i support that. i didn't always support it but i think it's the smart thing to do to have police officers who are in the field wear body cameras. and we have to try to regain that trust every day. >> how much do you think, at least in the city of new york that stop and frisk played a role in all this. >> not as much as you might think. i think activists certainly campaigned against it, it was a very skillful campaign. it lasted for 14 years. it was something that just didn't happen overnight. but i think the people in these communities want to help. thee are the ones being victimized. and i know that from being in those communities so much. but i think the videos, the ferguson incident and the so called ferguson affect that has emanated from these incidents is
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troubling. i mean by that, police not engaging on the level that they did engage in. i think crime is down in this country, or was down in this country for two decades based on smarter policing. some of that is proactive policing. you see somebody acting suspiciously. you have to intervene. that's what you are paid for. now we see police backing off from that cuz they don't want to jeopardize their own career or their well-being of their family. so as a result of that, i think we see murders in 50 largest cities going up. time will heal some of this. >> let me ask you about this. you say this about mayor de blasio who has stopped, stop and frisk as a policy. you say the fact that he has walked a which from that what you call routine and useful policing tool, the result is people will lose their lives as a result. have people lost their lives as
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a result? >> well, you have to look at some of the numbers. numbers can be very selective. last year there was a 122% increase in-- 22% increase of murders by gun in the city. we have an increase in slashings and stands. and yeah, this is not a be all and end all. this is not a panacea for crime to stop question and frisk. but it is a valuable tool, an essential tool for plition officers to have in the tool belt. to the extent that it has held back, that it is not used as a natural consequences of our police officers encounter, then it's going to bring about more crime. >> yes, i believe that. and i also believe that that is the reason that you see this increase in murders throughout the country. >> i want to go back to the issue of body cameras. you originally did not support the idea of police wearing body cameras. what is it that changed your mind? >> it was the shooting of walter scott by a police officer in north charleston south carolina.
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walter scott was stopped for a terrific violation, he has an account with the police officer. apparently he hadn't paid support payments. he thought that's what it was going to be all about. so he runs away and the officer shoots him and shoots him in the back. i thought how could any, you know, sain person do that if they are wearing a body camera that would have captured all of their-- all of the action. so the police officer shoots the individual and then there is a trial going to go forward here. but it certainly appears that a lot of people that planted evidence on. >> do you think ultimately the body cameras will protect the police more than the citizenship? >> i do. because the police and i say this based on my 45 years in policing, do such great things, such beneficial things for society every day. that certainly it will greatly
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outnumber any untoward event. but i think it would also restrain officers from acting in an inappropriate way. you know what happens is people video police all the time now. and they will take that video and put it on youtube and you will see maybe a half of the entire event or two thirds. now with police wearing cameras, at least the potential for capturing the entire incident is, you know, is with the police department. >> while we're on the issue of technology, i wanted to ask you about apple. and this debate that took place earlier this year between the fbi and apple and the idea that potentially terrorists and other criminals are going to use devices like iphones and other products to communicate in a way that makes it inaccessible to the police. >> yeah. >> how do you think about that issue, the idea of privacy on
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one end and the need to know on the other? >> i think ultimately at the end of the day, security trumps priefer see. we have to have a system that is in place that will enable legitimate law enforcement efforts to capture information, to make it available to them, to keep us safe. now i don't think any company, certainly apple, i don't think it can-- should be able to go out and say hey, we are going to make it so that you can't access this information. i think congress has to get involved in a decision like that. >> now i framed it up as a rife see versus security debate. technology companies would say it's an unfair comparison, which is to say that the moment you create a back door effectively, you get rid of the security. that it's not necessarily simply
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helping you, it's helping also the bad guy on the other end that we don't know about. >> yes. this argument is going to continue. but as i say, at the enof the day, i think security has to prevail. we saw the fbi say that they couldn't open the phone, couldn't open the phone until they reached out to an isrfirm i don't know. and they were able to access the phone. i would like to see some sort of agreement, compromise on the side. but if not, i think congress has to make a determination here. >> talk to me about new york city right now. you've been critical of mayor de blasio, mr. braden is no longer in charge. how do you look at the policing that is taking place right now? >> well, i think you have to look at the quality of life in this city. i mean people are saying it's not just me, that the quality of life has slipped in new york, we have a lot of homeless people. >> how much do you think it
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slipped, if you were-- is it five percent, 10 percent. >> how do you think about it like this. >> it is much more of a feeling than a number. you can feel it. people tell me they can feel it. i can feel it. >> the mayor would say the stats don't suggest that. >> well, you can always do things with numbers. the mayor has had problems with numbers and a lot of different agencies. so i don't think it's a question of policing. i think the police want to do their job. but the chief law enforcement officer in any city is the mayor. the mayor sets the tone. so to the extent that we have seen slippage in certain quality of life issues, i think the mayor is ultimately responsible. there is a move to lessen the penalties for these violations. i think that's a move in the wrong direction. certainly when people feel that things are slipping, to do that, i think, is an unwise political move. >> the book is called vij lens, ray kelley, thank you. >> thanks for having me.
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>> you bet. >> china's rise on the glonnal stage is reshaping expectations for leadership in the 21s century. the success of future leaders around the world will depend on all understanding china's increasingly influential role. the schwarzman scholarship program seeks to meet that challenge. 110 scholars will begin studies incomes month at-- in beijing. students will engage in a rig rowses one year program and pursue degrees in one of three disciplines. public policy, economics and business or international studies. steve schwarzman is chairman and c.e.o. of blackstone. one of the world's leading investment firms. also joined by three students who will compromise the inaugural class of schwarzman scholars. they are jr thornton, anna beth gellman,-- i am pleased to have all of them here having probably bump erred his name. and i will have him say it at the beginning. you pronounce it for me.
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the way that your parents say it. >> it's-- . >> rose: welcome. so tell me how this idea came to you. i mean some say it is modeled on the rhodes scholarship but how did the idea come to you and what do you hope it will do? >> well, the way it came is that shenwhat people where i am on the board of thaifer business school because chinese government invested $3 billion in the blackstone ipo, and so they asked me to go on the shenwa board and then of course several years later they asked me to make a significant donation for their hundredth anniversary. and that was during the financial crisis. so i was otherwise engaged. and a few years later they came back to me again and i was thinking about what does the future hold and how can i do something that is quengs.
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and it became pretty clear as pop lism was spreading in the united states, that eventually it wouldn't just be directed against 1 percent or financial people or other types of groups, it would eventually reach china. because china appeared to be the winner. and his torically in 12 of the last 16 times that a challenger country was challenging an incumbent power, world power, there had been wars between incumbents and the-- . >> rose. >> i grace it what graham alice who did that at harvard. so the deck was sort of stacked against a peaceful world. at least probability wise. and that's not possible to happen in the modern world. and so i thought we needed to do something that would be a
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bridge, that could take what china is doing, explain it to the rest fltd world, if it was being marketed into a populist situation, it could hopefully diffuse those tensions. if china was doing something that in effect didn't really feel right, you can go and talk to them. so the idea was to form a group of students and i look for a model. and i like the rodes model because i knew a lot of people who were rhodes. and we tried to-- . >> rose: probably have a couple working for you somewhere. >> yes, that's different. but you know, people like bill clinton and other people, really had their lives changed through the experience of going somewhere else. and so i thought wow, if we could do something similar, select amazing people who have the ka passionity to be leaders in their fields of interest, and if we can assemble 200 a year so
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we end up at a steady state of 10,000 students over a lifetime without become grownups, have influence, whether it's political, whether it's media, whether it's business, whatever their field, that we can help create a network which in the modern world, unlike when you and i went to school, charlie, where you lost track of your classmates because how do you keep in touch with people. in the internet world, you can keep track of everyone. and so we'll form this network of students and not just in your class, of schwarzman scholars but across the years. and this could be a very powerful group for change. >> so what happens as you went in search of the best and the brightest to use david-- term, you know, and you said who are 20 years old. and find them and take them and give them an opportunity to go to shenwa for a year.
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>> for a year. but it's more of a business year than an academic year. not that much happens in an academic year. so this is pretty intense. and besides, the academic part, we'll be studying things all chiengs chinese, culture and history and other things, as well as the type of area of specialization. it will make this truly extraordinary for the students, is that they get to meet the leaders of the country. they'll get to go to different parts of the country. they'll have people come in from around the world who, you know, people that you interview on a regular basis will get to spend time with them. and so they will get mentors from the top of chinese society whether it's government people or business people or dip plo-- diplomats. and so they will get to have an exposure to china which will be
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truly unique. nobody else can do that. >> all right, let me talk, tell me about you and how you-- what you hope to get out of this. why did you want to do it? >> so i studied engineering at college but in high school i had the opportunity to study chien ease and i continued doing so at college. so as part of my university program i got to spend some time in china. i really fell in love with the ran gage, chinese culture and people. after graduating from college i worked in consulting but one thing i found is that i really missed working with china in some way. so for me, in addition to the degree and meeting everyone, the opportunity to kind of reintegrate into what is going on in chinese culture and society right now is a big draw for why i wanted to participate in the program. and getting exposures is a big thing. >> what is it about the china, the culture, the place, other than its size and growing impact? and also its growing problems and challenges. >> they do have those, however, it's its rapid pace of change
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which is most exciting to me. i find that when i first went to china eight years ago i used to have to take a scooter ride and then a bus ride and a change and a walk. and when i went back just two years later there was a high speed subway that took me to the center of the city. in no other place i had visited was there that much change that quickly and that continued pace of change only accelerating. >> rose: why you, why china, you have already written a novel. >> well, while i studied creative writing at harvard, i was praimly a history major. and mr. schwarzman was talking about, i think this say really sort of unique moment in time where this relationship is going to be really defining for the next, it's going to really define our lives over the next hundred years. >> rose: the relationship between china and the united states. >> yeah. and i do feel like there is a real need for people on this
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side of the relationship to be engaged with china. and going back to what you just said about the 8-1 in terms of studying here, studying there, i think where operating from a dert right now of knowledge and understanding. and to be sort of a part of that i think is something that to me seems like a very important and scral u-- valuable thing to be doing. >> rose: i would say your mother is a novelist and your father say businessman and at the same time, has an ongoing relationship with china. you said in your mind with what you want to do with your life? >> well, i-- . >> rose: are you a confirmed writer and that is what it is and what you are going to do? >> i have lived fiction since i could walk. and i'm definitely going to continue writing fiction my whole life. i don't think i want to limit myself to just doing that.
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and i think this is part of that. and i am not sure exactly what direction i will be going in, but essentially journalist or-- . >> rose: oh, journalism. >> keeping my options open at the moment. hopefully i will have a-- . >> rose: it is a wonderful way to spend a life. and what does this mean to you? >> well, this program is, you know, definitely an unparalleled opportunity to improve my understanding of china. an having been born in mongolia, a place that is always in the back of my mind, wherever i am, i have always understood that you know china is this very central figure in both monday gollian history, politics and economics. it is merely a question of to what extent is it a positive role. and i think in the past 20 years since mongolia's transition to a democratic free market there has been a growing push for chinese investment in mongolia but it has been hindered by you could say pop lism and a sense of fear
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among monday gollians about what china represents in our country. and it has been going forward for. >> a lot of neighbors feel that way about china. they worry about china's influence. >> it's understandable. if we look at the history. but i think for the countries to both develop and to maintain a positive relationship, there is-- needs to be a foundation of mutual understanding and i hope to do this through the program. >> rose: so who do you think, where is your professional at this time in your life your professional interest? >> well, i'm an aspiring entrepreneur, having worked on-- . >> rose: you have come to the right place. >> having worked on several on-campus ventures while in college. and i hope to basically make entrepreneurship more accessible to monday gollians and people elsewhere in the developing world. >> rose: do you speak mandarin or can ton ease. >> no. >> rose: will they learn the language it is a difficult language to earn first of all, you can tell, you certainly can't do it in a year.
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>> no, you can-- . >> rose: are they primarily going there? >> to develop a sense of china, it's culture, it's politics, its economic base, how it's changing, how it may become a stakeholder in the world, to use robert glel ig's famous phrase. are they going at that or they going there to learn something specific in terms of a curriculum like a business degree. >> i think it is more the former than the latter. because the students in the program are very substantially advanced in all types of areas. the kind of thing you can't get from any other program that's dealing with china is the kind of experience you will get with this. now you know, we have curriculum half taught roughly by the shenwa professors and half by professors from around the world, all of the courses are
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uniquely designed. to be at the highest level. but the students who are coming here have all been super successes. academically. and i have learned just as a person to have good lifetime success you have to have unique experiences and unusual understandings of what is going on. not just simply academic input. because the academic input is great at all the places where they are. so this is something where when you finish this program, academics will be excellent. but what you are getting is a unique look at a unique country that is the second biggest economy in the world, inevitably will be the largest. the largest population in the world. this is not a normal place. and it's quite alien for other people. so we'll have 20% chinese students leaving a side all the rest of the people at the
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university. roughly 40 to 45% u.s. and 35% roughly from the rest of the world. and just in our first class, we have 31 countries represented and 71 universities. >> rose: so between the time you announce this program and entry in the first class, what, three years. >> it was three years. >> and what we have got, charlie, which is amazing, could only happen in the moderate world, our world. is we've got about the most selective program in the world. 3.7% of the people who applied were offered the opportunity to come and 95% of them agreed to come. and that's just year one. and i think this year our able gaitions will probably-- applications will probably be up somewhere around 60%. >> rose: you desperately wanted this, fair to say? >> yeah, absolutely. >> rose: this seemed like a remarkable opportunity to see a part of the world you did not know. you knew more than others.
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>> an amazing opportunity. >> rose: and how is the interview process? >> oh, man. because i kept getting these notes notes from steve schwarzman, i want you to sit on this board and interview these kids an i said that sounded like a great thing to do but i'm pursuing four jobs. i better not do a bad job at interviewing. and then when eye realized, i also realized he had such an impressive group of people doing the interviewing, you know, that i might not shape up. >> well, the add dren lynn was certainly flowing deur the interview process. there was a group component and a luncheon but there was also a seven, six or seven on one panel with me on one side and them on the other side. exactly. >> rose: what did they ask you? >> they asked us about what we had written about in our essays an amount kaition, just our experiences, what brought us to that point. what we wanted to get from the program. they also threw in a wildcard question about something else going on in the world, just to see-- . >> rose: if you could think for yourself. >> exactly.
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see if we knew about other things besides our scope. >> rose: the interesting thing too, what fascinates me is that there is no perfect training for a leader, you know. because leaders come from all kinds of places. but what you are trying to do is say that he would hope that the future leaders of the world will have as much of this kind of education as possible. we know it's a global world. we know that people who want to lead companies, medical institutions, political steukses all have to have a broad sense. we are so interconnected by the shortage of time and distances, as well as the internet. >> you learn from professors certain types of things and we're having actually a joint leadership mod all with the rhodes group. >> oh really. >> and we're quite friendly but another way you learn is being around people who are natural
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leaders. and i remember when i was a younger person, i still think i'm a younger person but when i was, you know, you are always looking to pick pieces with people who you think are terrific and incorporate that knowledge and modify yourself some what. and because the group of students is so unusual in the program just by being on their own let alone other types of ininstruction, they'll learn things from each other in terms of what becomes successful. >> what do you think is the most interesting and most significant learning experience you've had so far? >> so far, it's got to be, you know, you could say a lot of experience abroad away from the classroom, i spent a summer in bolliveia on my own, roughly two years ago. >> rose: traveling or working? >> i was-- . >> rose: studying. essentially a language immersion program way home stay component.
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and i was basically on my own for two months in this beautiful city. and you know, in a city that was not necessarily the most international cosmopolitan i learned a lot about how people definitely do have preconceived notions about who you are and where you come from. but these preconceived notions and stereotypes don't have much basis as long as you can talk to them and explain who you are and where you come from. >> rose: was' been your most maturing and interesting and shaping influence. >> when i was 14 i lived in beijing for a year and i spent that year training with a chinese international-- those are the experiences that sort of lead me to write this beautiful country and at that time the sportsman in china was still very much a carry over from the-- been copied from the soviet union in the '70s and '80s. all the players i played with came from poor backgrounds, paid
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salary by the government, to practice eight hours a day and didn't really have a chance to go to school. and to sort of be immersed in that world coming from school in the states was-- just showed me a side of life i had never seen before and my teammates had to worry about things i never had to think about. and. >> rose: a world that you don't know. >> yeah. and i mean not-- i it really changed my life. and so that is why i am so thrilled to be able to go back and engage in china again. >> rose: was china one of the more interesting shaping experiences of your life. >> it was definitely shaping and influencing. when i think back on one thing that really changed it for me was my undergraduate engineers. i studied engineering at m.i.t. and had to work really, really hard when i was there. learning that discipline as a student athlete as well, meeting people from all around the world
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who were studying there, that rigor, like that i think gave me the motivation and made me feel like okay f can i make it through m.i.t. of yvment i.t. i can apply and sick ear things t was one of the things that-- . >> rose: do you have a sense of the five year plan announced last year or earlier this year is the right direction for china. do you think china is prepared to take a full role in the world, a sense that china appreciates its power. >> i think china is one complicated place. to break this into pieces, charlie. economicically they really had no choice. but to emphasize the consumer part of their economy and internalize it. because just exporting when the objective of the president of the country is to make everybody have a better life, better health, better wealth.
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and so if everybody is becoming more wealthy then you can't be a low-cost exporter. so the economy, economic model needed to change. this is like a hard thing. and so overall economic growth at least as they reported is in the 6st. >> rose: at least as they report it. >> i said as they reported. but we're seeing the consumer side of their economy which is about half of the economy is doing quite well. and you know they're hiring a lot of people. their wages are up. >> rose: huge overcapacity in real estate. >> well, other parts-- . >> rose: the business are you in. >> there is a shortage of warehousing space because of the internet. there is always some way to make money. but it's really important that they do pivot their economy. and it doesn't come without friks. but the consumer part is holding up quite well and if more people
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are being hired and higher wages are being paid, then that will be some what enduring. and it is interesting that the world declared that china had some huge set of problems. i guess in january in the markets all went off and that didn't come to pass. so i think that element which is a core part will continue to have excesses and other problems. but the chinese are so adaptable and energetic and as was said t is odd in china, change happened so fast. they are sort of like dog years. like one year in china is like seven years somewhere else. and so you know they've got political issues. that they face. >> issues of author tairianism, human rights. >> a variety of issues and a whole different model of gof earnance.
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so it is never a smooth ride when you are the world's fastest growing large economy. unprecedented growth in the last 30 years. never happened in history. >> it is a fascinating place. and can i never get enough of it. and i thank you, thank you for joining us. see you next time. >> for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at and charlie captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh
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>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.
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