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tv   Charlie Rose  PBS  September 17, 2016 12:00am-1:01am PDT

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>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with politics, and we talk to robert costa of "the washington post." >> trump is very confident at this moment, having covered him for quite some time. i've never seen him for bullish about hiss chances. he revel in looking at the poll numbers. spending 20 hours with him on the campaign trail, i get the sense this is still donald trump, center of his campaign, running on instinct. kellyanne conway said a week ago that trump now believes president obama was born in the united states, i thought that's quite a change in position, and i asked him in the course of a wide ranging interview what do you think of conway's statement, is it accurate. >> rose: we continue with nick confessore of the "new york times." >> i think we've seen that it's closer than we thought. it's go time for both of them.
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she can either remind people of what they're getting along with his unconventionality, and maybe he can access a new pool of people who might take him seriously after seeing him up on a presidential debate stage. it's a test for both of them. >> rose: and my friend andrew sorkin of "new york times" talks to diane von furstenberg about fashion during fashion week. >> how am i going to live the next ten years of my life in a way i can still participate, that i'm relevant and not ridiculous, okay? the best way to deal with our age is to embrace it. so if you embrace it, what is it that i have to offer at this point in my life, and it is my experience, my wisdom, and use my voice for people who have no voice. so all of a sudden, this gives a big, huge panorama of things that i can do that will give me
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pleasure, that will help people, that will help women -- >> rose: and roge matt talks toe director and stars of the new movie "snowden." >> he's very gentlemanly and you don't expect that because the stereotype in our culture right or wrong is guys who were good at computers are socially awkward and i guess i admit i was maybe, you know, guilty of some of that prejudice in expecting he might be that way because he's really good at computers, but that's not what i found. i found he would look you right in the eye, give me a warm handshake. he's almost old fashioned in his sort of manners. that was something i real will wanted to incorporate. >> rose: politics, fashion and film, when we continue.
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>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we begin with the presidential race. donald trump continues the gain ground on hillary clinton in the polls even as he comes under fire for reigniting the controversy over president obama's birth certificate. joining me is bob costa, interviewed trump wednesday aboard his plane and writes about that conversation in today's "the washington post" headline "trump bullish on race as rice tightens."
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i am pleased to have bob costa back on this program. welcome. >> great to be here. >> rose: here's what hay said in playbook this morning. just when the narrative was shifting hillary clinton's return to the campaign trail donald trump speaks. "the washington post" bob costa great friend of playbook is driving the news psych this will morning. he spoke to trump aboard his 757 as it idled on the tarmac at the canton, ohio airport for an hour during heavy traffic into la guardia. trump's tie was loose, and david bossy and stephen banion were signature nearby. there is the scene. tell me what it was significant and why hid he tell you he wasn't going to speak out on the birth or issue and then today this morning he speaks out about it? >> trump is very confident at this moment, having covered him quite some time, i've never seen him more bullish about his chances. he rev also in looking at the -- he revels in looking at the poll
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numbers. i got the sense this is still donald trump, the center of his campaign, running on instincts. when i heard kellyanne conway say about a week ago that donald trump now believes president obama was born in the united states, i thought that's quite change in position, so i asked in the course of a wide-ranging interview what do you think of conway's statement, is it accurate, and trump, we had a long exchange about it. he said he didn't want to engage on it, he said conway can say whatever she wants to say, and i think it was indicative of this is still a candidate that comets out of the birther movement who is a true outsider and doesn't follow the political rules. >> rose: do you believe he actually believes that barack obama was not born in the united states at anytime? or simply a campaign device? >> i can't speak for his heart or mind but you have to look at his actions. i covered him in 2011 and 12 when he was mouthing this
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birther crew said, he was consumed about the issue. >> rose: did he care or was it political? >> in part i'm sure it was a political stunt, a publicity stunt, but this is something that animated him personally. he's not driven by ideology but he was on this particular issue deeply interested sending people to go investigate, looking into different things, conspiracy theories. >> rose: then why did he change his mind as he said today? >> well, he didn't have his mind changed, seemed, on wednesday night when we were speaking on that tarmac, but he's under immense political pressure from fellow republicans, even some of his campaign aides. in the final weeks to have general election, can he appeal to the skeptical voters, minority voters. >> rose: college education women, big deal. >> very big deal. he's trying to make a pitch to african-american and latino voters. >> rose: and african-american voters considered this a racist
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insult to the president and him. >> they took it personally. i said to trump, you recognize your influence today, a lot of the black voters you meet at the the church and elsewhere they see this as an issue, a cloud and trump glared at me and said, no, it's a cloud over the reporters. he thinks the press is way too this issue but when you meet the voters, they care about it. >> rose: still, i don't know why he changed. because of political pressure and he didn't believe it? or did some event cause him to say, i no longer believe -- i'm no longer a birther, i no longer believe that the president of the united states was not born in the united states, even though he submitted his lengthy birth certificate. >> right. he didn't take questions at the trump hotel in washington. he gave a 60-word statement, something approximately around that range, and that was it. he toured his hotel, didn't have anything more to say. i think trump is driven, based on my reporting, on the polls, he sees a winnable race.
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>> rose: and what has happened? let's talk about the polls. because i'll read you several things. number one, this comes from rich lawrey of the national review. the national review did not like donald trump fair to say. >> not al at all. >> rose: you used to work there. >> sure, movement conservatives, can't stand trump because they don't see an ideology there. >> rose: here's what rich laurie, eshtd in chief, said if you aren't seriously contemplating the biggest black swan event in american electoral history, you aren't paying attention. 15 months ago, donald trump was a tv reality star with a spotty business record and saying he was going to run for president. now he is a couple of sterling debate performance also away from being i elected president of the united states. she's rising, he's falling. what happened? >> some has to do with secretary
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clinton and perhaps her comments and deporables, the handling of the health episode. >> rose: donald trump calls that the biggest political mistake of the campaign. >> he did. me sees his supporters as people disengaged from politics and he thinks he can rouse them toe the polls. this is a total outsider, someone outside of partisan lines. when i was in canton and you see the crowd, it's electric. these are working class mostly white voters who aren't really bush republicans, not romney republicans but they're out for trump. >> rose: it's intoxicating for him, too, isn't it? >> he loves it. he calls it a performance. >> rose: he does. and he thinks of polls like he thinks of television ratings. and he also thinks of things like a television producer. when he had his event today in washington, he made sure to have medal of honor winners surround him. he had four african-american supporters behind him at the lectern, and all of the networks carried him live for about 20,
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30 minutes before he finally made his statement. >> rose: when you look at the obama constituency who twice elected barack obama, they are in favor of hillary clinton, yet, at the same time, it is a neck and neck race. >> her unfavorable ratings are very high. sometimes it's not about trump winning over voters, when you talk to top republican strategists especially in the senate races, they say look at the bernie sanders supporters, the millennials. it's not so much the republicans need to win them over, keep them home. >> rose: hope they don't vote. when i talk to the clinton strategists, i say what's thest issue and they say they have to turn out democratic voters and bernie sanders voters were democratic. >> and that's why you saw hillary clinton seize in issue. i published the story thursday night and within the hour secretary clinton is talking about the birther issue on the
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campaign trail and in washington talking about it friday because she knows this issue gets the base out. trump is -- >> rose: it's her base. it's her base. a lot of democrats you speak to like her, respect mer, understand the moment in history, but they're fatigued by the obama years, in a sense, really admire obama and love obama as voters but they're fatigued by the political establishment and intrigued by trump. >> rose: she has trust issues, as everybody knows. >> she does. she's run this campaign against trump based on temperament but i think wrapping herself around the obama administration is not so much the policies of obama, it's the figure of obama, what he means to so many voters. >> rose: what's interesting to me about this election, this is true apart from the candidates, president obama's having -- he's over 50% in approval ratings, yet the country is going in the wrong direction gets more than 50%, too. >> that's the risk for the clinton strategy. the mood for change south there when you're reporting. a lot of the swing voters want
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change, but president obama remains very popular, so she's trying to latch herself on the that popularity but she perhaps is on her way to being the change agent. >> rose: he did not speak quickly in condemnation of secretary clinton when it was discovered when we had the video and she went home to rest for several days, for a day and a half he didn't say anything, finally what he said was could she stand up here for an hour like. this who's influencing him not to say something, to take a kind of phon attack position while she was getting all that attention on her pneumonia? >> well, that was the most illuminating part of my full day with trump. >> rose: yes. who really has influence. in his inner circle, that's a mystery to most country. steve bannon, david bossy, jarred crashner, these people's names aren't on television all the time. kellyanne conway is on television.
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steve bannon who ran breitbart news, he's the soul of the trump campaign. he frames himself as a populist nationalist and latched himself on to trump. he sees trump as the horse that can bring his world view to prominence and power in america and he clicks with trump. david bothy, long time clinton investigator, airporter provides a lot of fodder for trump. then kellyanne conway, moderate influence in terms of tone but in terms of policies and views, frit conservative. but the thing that unites all these new people is they get trump as a new yorker, as a businessman in a way paul manafort the former campaign chairman never did. >> rose: before you go there, jarred kushner, ivanka's husband and successful businessman. >> he's the liaison. he's someone who shies away from the press and almost always off
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the record when you talk to him. but he connects with businessmen and connects with donors and beam in washington, the way governor christie is and newt gingrich. but governor christie helps people who can't get in that inner circle find their way in. >in ivanka is giving a speech on childcare this week and he deeply and respects and admires her as a company spokesman and for the campaign. >> rose: medical issues, he said i've done all i'm going to, no more. all it was was a letter from his doctor about a few letters about his cholesterol. >> very limited information. i pressed him on this. i said, this is a letter. your doctor has had controversy and scrutiny for being a little -- different. >> rose: he wrote the letter while they were waiting outside. >> the original letter. trump defended the doctor, said he's very, very respected. >> rose: why is he trying to shut it down is the question, obviously. this is it, it wasn't much.
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but also she has a lot to give, too. >> i asked him point-blank, charlie, because i'm curious as an american, reporter, have you ever had a major illness or heart attack and he said no. >> rose: what else came out of this conversation that you thought significant? >> i think one of the most significant things is he sees this race in a different way that i think a couple of months ago. what i mean by that is i pressed him on the idea would he form a media company if he loses the race. when you're in washington, i'm at the capitol talking to senators and congressmen on the background, and the chart is what's this all about? if he loses, is it going to be starting something with roger ailes or breitbart? there is intrigue and question. but trump pushed that aside, said false rumor. >> rose: he really wants to be president. >> i believe it. >> rose: he's wanted to be president for a while.
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it wasn't just two years ago. he wanted to be president when he raised the birther issue. there's no other explanation to me as to why he raised the birther issue than he somehow wanted to get involved in right politics within the republican party. >> as a reporter, you can't assume that trump doesn't want to be president. >> rose: i mean, why would he not want to be? he's intoxicated by the process. i mean, he clearly loves being out there. >> he comes from the old new york tabloid schools, as long as i'm in the headline and the newspaper, i'm winning. get my name right, spell it ger ailes and he basicallyf said, you know, he's my friend, we talk, but he's in the an official advisor. what is he trying to say there? >> well, roger ailes has a lot of controversy around imas we know, resigning from fox amongst sexual harassment allegations and the settlement. so there is a lot of pressure in
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trump's campaign not to have roger ailes in a role. there is a hesitancy about ailes and a respect for his knowledge but they don't want to link trump to ailes. by based on my reporting, ailes is influential. he goes to trump's golf course in new jersey, there when they had the debate prep sessions. trump told pehe told him about his experience with nixon and the '80s and the '90s. trump loves it. >> rose: first, the debate is coming up on september 26. how does he see his own path and how he spends his own time between now and the debates and between the debates and the election? >> most republican consultants are advising the trump campaign to focus on certain swing states, north carolina, florida, ohio, pennsylvania and a few others. >> rose: we'll stop you there.
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sure. >> rose: in north carolina, how's he doing? >> the educated voters are skeptical but it's competitive. >> rose: it's often said he has the to appeal to college-educated women in the suburbs. that's a clear constituency, and pause of what he said about women and other things, it makes it a very difficult challenge for them. what else does he have to do if he wants to score one of the most surprising political upsets in political history? >> on the women front, ivanka will be on the campaign trail more. he told me his wife melania is going to be doing more appearances and she's been rarely seen since the republican national convention. on policy, trump is advocating more entitlement spending when it comes to childcare. >> rose: and tax cuts, too. and he believes in his economic speech that tax cuts will be paid for because the economic growth that they will ignite,
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correct. >> that's correct. and that's more of the supply side school of the republican party. he's not a natural fit with that wing, but he's taking up some of their policy proposals. >> rose: and in polls he is viewed on the questions of economics and handling the economy of the united states more favorably than she is? a question. >> he is seen as a strong steward, possibly, of the economy on questions of tone and temperament and other things he has weaker numbers. but i think your question is the most important one, what does he have to do between now and november 8. >> rose: and? i was talking to a couple of trump associates' allies. he's surrounded by people who are not in the campaign but well known. one put it to me, this is a wave. it's not about trump, it's about change. it's about frustration with political institutions and parties. can he ride it, can he hold on and ride this wave into victory. because the wave is moving in
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that direction, it's just he can't get distracted. maybe that's why he came out today. i haven't spoken to trump about this. but he just came out with that small statement, but i know his campaign officials want to get rid of the noise that's always been around trump because they see this wave. >> rose: and, in fact, that's why they latched on to some kind of identification with brexit which was considered a wave and a movement. >> that's right. >> rose: they want to see what he has ignited as a movement and a wave in which there is -- he became, in a sense -- he didn't produce it, but he got -- he went to the head of the parade on tissue of discontent and the establishment, having had an opportunity and failed, and what was necessary was a new direction. >> one thing that really struck me, charlie, was he was reading the paper on the plane about ford moving some of its operations to mexico for small car production, and he seized on this and starts scribbling notes. i'm going to talk about that in
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canton, ohio. rust belt city. he goes up with notes. he has a teleprompter. it's about mexico, the wall, 35% tax he's proposing on ford and others that produce goods abroad. he uses the word "globalist." he's not a natural -- >> rose: this was in akron. in the akron, canton area. >> rose: basically trying to make the appeal that all the things he's been talking about in terms of trade and in terms of saving jobs. >> and he's mentioning things like obamacare. he's mentioning usual republican talking points, but it's mostly unusual talking point -- heavy trade tariffs, talking about mexico and populism and globalism and talking about jobs, jobs, jobs. >> rose: here's what's interesting to me in terms of her interview. this whole idea of the alt.
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>> he said the alt right is fiction but it's not. they've had a presence in this election and connected themselves with donald trump. >> rose: he's not disavoid them in any sense, has he? >> he hasn't seemed to even want to talk about the concept of the alt right. >> rose: he said the name came up recently but it's been around for a while. >> it's been around a while. that's the ugly side. >> rose: what does that say is this he wants them enthusiastic about him at his rallies but he doesn't want to be identified with them? he wants them but doesn't want them. is that what it says? >> to an extent. but i think you can connect that to how he handled the birther issue. he does not engage or want to
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talk about a moral side to politics, whether about apologizing for talking about where the president was born or disavowing the alt right. this moment that so often defines the presidential campaign when they're talking down to the base, trump doesn't ever want to go there. >> rose: congratulations on a terrific interview. >> thank you. >> rose: bob costa of "the washington post." back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: joining me now is nick confessore who is covering the campaign for the "new york times." i am pleased to have him again in our studios but at a different table. welcome. so donald trump gave a press conference. we now speak at lunchtime friday and talked about the birther issue. what did he say and why did he say it at this time? >> he finally said that president obama was born in this country. he also said incorrectly, he lied and said hillary clinton had spread the rumor in the first place and he has now got on the bottom of it.
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in his weird way he seemed to have put it behind him without actually acknowledging his role in starting it in the first place. i think the reason he did it was to provide clarity on his position. he's been hounded about it by the press. his campaign wanted to hut it bind him. he did it in a trumpian campaign which did not admit error but said the right words about president obama's birth place. there was no compelling evidence of any kind that the president was not born in hawaii. >> rose: primarily internet chatter right? >> that's right, a theory making the round. some clinton supporters propounded the theory in 2008. her campaign nor clinton had. it was comfind to conspiracy reaches until trump became the prime proponent of it for five years. >> rose: is he in any way hostage to the early supporters who gave him his first substantial core support in this presidential race? >> he is 100% hostage to them
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because it is the core of his support. he's shown time and time again that instead of pivoting in some way in a general election, on immigration let's say, he will not do it because he doesn't want to lose the compassion of the core supporters. they brought him from the primary, are the 40% backing him in the general election, he can't lose them and it's an either/or choice. the question is how does hillary clinton get the other 5 or 10% that she needs to. >> rose: when you look at her campaign, she's got former president, her husband, campaigning for her. she's got barack obama campaigning for her. she's got a lot of surrogates out there. are they making a difference? >> i think we'll see some movement there. i think that the combination we'll be seeing is appealing to a lot of people. among the obama coalition, her challenge is to reassemble the coalition which had earlier turnout of millennials, younger and black and brown voters, i think that will make a difference to have the leader to
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have the commission come out and stump for her. >> rose: how are they preparing differently for the debate? do we know yet? >> i'm not sure we know a lot about it. we've seen that she is trying to prepare for unpredictability of it. it's not clear to me how trump is preparing it all or, you know, he's only recently decided he wants to get into the debates. it's going to be a real test for him. she is an excellent debater. he's also good at, like, throwing people off their balance in these debates. it's traditionally a very good debater against a great nontraditional debater. i'm not sure i've seen anything like it in modern politics and not sure it can be prepared for. >> rose: might it be the most decisive debate since reagan-carter in 1980? >> i think it could be, charlie. certainly before when he was behind, it might have been his only chance to change the fundamental tenor of the election. it's closer than we thought. it is go time for both of them. she can either remind people of what they're getting along with
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his unconventionality, and maybe he can access a new pool of people who might take him seriously after seeing him up on a presidential debate stage. it's a real test for both of them. >> rose: thanks for coming. great to see you. >> you, too, charlie. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. >> fashion week is here and no one better to speak to than diane von furstenberg, one to have the world's most respected and successful fashion design rts. more than 40 years ago she pioneered the iconic wrap dress. her brand is available in 70 countries. she announced jonathan saunders would become the company's new chief creative officer. we welcome her back to this table. thank you for being here. >> thank you so much. so help me with this. yes. ou hire this guy jonathan. how do you decide before you even find him that you're going to step back? >> well, okay, so first of all,
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i started when i was in my early 20s, 23 years old, girl comes from europe wanting to be independent. i was married, i was a princess, but still i wanted to be independent, and i came with a few dresses i designed. i worked in a printing plant and i made these few dresses. the next thing is i become this huge success with no experience, none whatever. so i truly lived the american dream. then things went so fast, and i had licenses and this and that and whatever, and then i ended up selling the business because it was so much. that was my first phase. so that's american dream. second phase is comeback kid. i come back in about 18 years ago because i see that the young hip girls are buying the old dresses in vintage stores. by then my brand is in the dust. it's all over, bad. so gradually, i get it back, the name, and i start again. and this is comeback kid.
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at that point, my motivation was not to be independent, but is to show the world and myself that it hadn't been an accident. so that was that period. you know, fashion is fashion, so, obviously -- 40 years later, you are an established name, you are very much a part of people's lives. my mother did, grandmother did, i did -- you know, this dress, i got my job, i met my husband, i did whatever, i conceived my son, i mean, you hear all kinds of stories about what happened in that dress. now, it's heritage, right? now is the time, it's, like, okay, how does this brand survive after me? how do i plan it if and then, also, it's, me personally, i feel like i have given -- in
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terms of creativity and fashion, i feel i've given, you know, what i knew, and i certainly have extended it for a long time, and i feel like somehow it needs -- i always, also, i always remember jonathan. when he appeared on the scene about ten years ago and he started his own business, the way he uses prints and colors, it immediately struck me because my business, my fashion is very much about colors and prints and how you put it together and simple styles. >> so your decision to step back and put him in place happens because you thought of him? >> well, it's a combination. i was definitely looking for someone. was i looking for someone that i would give that much power with? i'm not sure. but i was definitely looking for someone. then i found him.
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then, at the same time, i am at the moment of my life, i am 69, and who else would tell you that on television? you could see it on the internet, anyway. so i'm thinking, okay, how am i going to live the next ten years of my life in a way that i can still participate, that i am relevant and i'm not ridiculous, okay? the best way to deal with our age is to embrace it. so if you embrace it, what is it i have to offer at this point in my life? and it is my experience, my wisdom, and use my voice for people who have no voice. so, all of a sudden, this gives a big, huge panorama of things that i can do that will give me
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pleasure, that will help people, that will help women, and, by the way, that will also help my brand, you know, because i'm still there. i'm an owner. i mean, i'm the owner. >> rose: how hard is it to step back? how hard is it to watch somebody else that you have put in this place take effective, to some degree, control of the brand and what it's supposed to be? >> i know, i know. so it's very hard, not because it's hard, but it's hard because you want him to succeed, and, therefore, you think that you can help. and when we met in london, after one hour, he was saying "we." then he came to do freelance consulting and he never left. he said, i can do this.
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i always knew he was talented, but i did not know how intelligent he was, how hard working he is, and how meticulous he is about everything. so i discovered all these other strengths that i almost forgot he was talented. >> rose: what do you want this company to be. >> now i will tell you how do we combine jonathan and his power in the company and his, you know, other company and me, the owner and the name and all of that and still around and hopefully for a while, so how do we combine it? so think about this, the umbrella -- when people ask me, how do you want to be remembered? i say, okay, i would like to be remembered as somebody who told women they could be the woman they want to be. i work really hard at being the woman i want to be and i want every woman to do that. jonathan is in charge of helping
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women to be the women they want to be by giving them the right products -- the beautiful handbag, the right dress, anything you can buy. i, on the other side, will help women to be the women they want to be by finding their own strength and their own confidence, and they don't have to spend any money on that. >> rose: what happens to this company, though? is this the company you ultimately sell? >> that's really not my decision. it's my children's and grand children's. the family business is still completely a family business. you never know what happens. at some time over the expansion, there may be a strategic partner that could be helpful, i mean, you know, but, i mean, it's lived so long it may as well continue to live. >> roselive. when you talked to jonathan
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to explain to him what you want for the business -- >> we grat celebrate freedom, mg freedom of being and movement so it's simple. we empower women, right, so that you give them confidence. and we inspire confidence. so those are the things that -- colors are important, softness is very important. we have that in common with jonathan sanders. that's why everyone thought it with would be a perfect match. >> let's talk fashion week and a bit about this business. >> yes. there is an argument that has been made in the retail world that there is no new fashion, that one of the reasons the industry has struggled the way it has over the past couple of years is that there has not been something new brought to life. >> that's completely wrong, i don't know who told you that. it is completely wrong.
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why the whole fashion industry is struggling is because there is a product solution, there is too much of this in every color in too many stores, too many of these gowns. that's the problem. but it's not true, fashion is -- you may not think it's fashion, but everybody being very casual and all that, that is fashion. so there are a lot of really talented, new designers. it's just like, for any industry, it's the digital revolution that changed everything. everything. you can see everything immediately, you can ask for something the same, it's just changed everything. so the industry right now is surfing a tsunami. first you have tans, fashion
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week was a trade. it's trade. it's a time that buyers, partners and the press would come and review and then they'd write a review, maybe they photograph one thing, it would be in the "new york times," in women's wear daily, in this and that, and six months later people would get it. no, the press would come, choose, make covers, everything was six months later. then celebrities started to go to the shows. celebrities and all of that. it became completely confusing for the consumer. a few months ago i called in as the chairman of the cada and i really brought these issues to everybody and said yo and said,w what? i don't really have the solution and nobody really has the solution, so i wanted to feel like young designers didn't have to spend all their marketing
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budget on a fashion show that really in the end would hurt them. so now you have confusion. some go one way and ralph lauren another thing. so it's confusing and no one really figured out -- >> does this have to change the idea of a fashion week and -- >> three things. we have to do a cadence of markdown. this whole markdown and discount is hurting the industry. everybody. it also happens because, in june, it's just about to get hot and you have coats and furs in the store. makes no sense! so the calendar, go back on calendar so that people go in the stores and find what they need when they need. calendar, discounts, and then decide about the fashion show, how much you want to reveal to everybody because, by the same
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token, everybody now talks about show now, wear now. that isn't really -- it's not like you see an instagram and you right it right away. you have to digest a little bit. sometimes you may go to it right away, but it's not like immediate. you know, you have to digest but you don't have to digest six months. >> rose: who is the next -- who do you look at the young designer and say that reminds me of myself. >> you know, i was the first woman doing, you know, who was a kind of socialite who says -- i can't believe i would ever say that -- but i was the first one and after that it was allowed. so anytime a woman that comes up with olivia or birch or nasty
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girl or larouxe, of course i relate to them and i relate to any woman. but if you ask me -- >> nobody. there is nobody right now -- >> that's not true, but i am the mother of all american designers. >> the show is pretty clever right now. >> i'm not supposed to tell you that. >> diane von furstenberg, thank you. this was great. >> thank you. good evening, i'm matt sikes, tv critic for "new york magazine" and vulture filling in for charlie rose away this week. "snowden" is the film from oscar award winning director oliver stone, tells the story of what is the most far reaching security breach in u.s. history edward snowden. the n.s.a. contractor has been called a hero and traitor and been one of the most polarizing
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figures in the 21st century. in the film out friday, the audience will get a look at the man in the headlines and what he rid binged by the decision to leak top secret information. edward calls it as close to real as you can get. here's a trailer for "snowden." (knocking) >> cell phone in the microwave. did i ask why? it blocks frequencies. before i get to the story, i need to know more about you. >> i'm 29 years old. i work as a private contractor for the n.s.a., c.i.a., i work in various jobs in the intelligence industry in the last nine years. they're going to come for me now that we've made contact, they're going to come for all of you, too. >> how about we just start with your name, okay? >> my name is edward joseph snowden.
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♪ the saints go marching in >> what was it you were doing again. >> jury analysis for the state department. >> don't be shy! i don't want anyone else. >> the modern battlefields everywhere. >> and how is this all possible? think of it as a google search instead of searching what people made public we're also looking at everything they don't. >> i know about your conversations. >> what is it. leave that there. are they watching us? my house is bugged. by who? one man can stop the world. what is it about the job that makes it more important than your life?
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>> snowden has been charged with espionage. >> you have no idea what it's like to be accountable for other people's lives! >> are you going away? ♪ when the saints go marching... ♪ ♪ in >> joining me is the director oliver stone and the stars, joseph gordon-levitt who plays snowden, shailene woodley who plays girlfriend lindsey and zachary quinto who braise plays guardian journalist greenwald. welcome. >> thank you. so why edward snowden?
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i think he's an historical figure outside our time, even. he addressed something that we didn't know. he made the world aware that our government has deployed and created and deployed a massive interpretational spying system, surveillance system, without democratic consent, and he is the one who brought it out and i believe he did so out of conviction and love of country. >> i remember, i visited the set briefly and one of the things that struck me is the level of security precautions that you were taking to avoid the script leaking out. >> well, from the beginning, we operated off the grid as much as we could. we kept everything on paper. we used all forms of encryption that were available at that time. sometimes when actors were in other parts of the world they had to read something, whether
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to do the part or not, and we sent it in pieces to whatever country. and the phone's another issue. we had our offices be bugged. in germany we felt more comfortable, that's where we shot most the film. we no from the snowden papers germany is a main target of the u.s., but still, we function in a good atmosphere. it was -- people were more, how do you say, prone to snowden's cause because they've suffered under the stasi communist regime and the nazis. >> edward snowden is not necessarily universally loved in this country. i was looking at some opinion polls, and a large majority of republicans think he was a traitor and a lot of democrats have doubts about him, too. this film for trays him as unambiguously a good thing for the country.
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>> i think it portrays him as human, and you decide for yourself after you've seen it, but i think you need to see it because that's the important thing to understand, his side, how he feels and what his relationship was to shailene and to zach. these are crucial, crucial -- they help support what he's feeling and doing. >> how do you historically get into character? when you're playing a real person as all three of you were doing, do you meet the real person, study footage of them, listen to tapes or just create your own version of them and go? >> i think it's different for all of us and certainly on this project. you know, film is called "snowden" so for joe to immerse himself in that character is one thing. for me personally, it was important to know the function of the character which is to contextualize the story, to
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capture the urgency and the vulnerability of these people at this time. their relationship to journalism and to one another, to technology, i dove into -- i didn't get a chance to meet glenn in preparation for going into production so i was able to read many of his articles, watch his many interviews, his debates, his book "no place too hide" which is a chronicle of this time and goes into a real examination of the papers themselves. there was no shortage of material and for the function my character serves in this film that was more than enough for me to draw from to feel i could capture those things and honor him as a journalist and a person? how about you, shailene? >> i met lindsey three months after going into production. going into it, oliver had met her and caroline the other bringer of the screenplay, so i trusted the character in their script was based observe the person they had come to know, but i also did research.
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she had past social media posts that hadn't been taken down since edward did what he did. sort of looked those over. since she was a self-portrait photographer, ther there were at of photographs with blog posts about them, but there is only so much insight when it comes to figuring out a human being from a two-dimensional cyber world because you can be anyone you want to be. so a lot of it was creating a character they had come to know but also replicating the human they had come to know but also being likely truthful in the character that i was playing because, above all else, i never played someone who was real before and apart from just wanting to give a good performance and be truth. and make sure the director and ctors that you're working with feel honored by -- not honored, but feel like they trust you with your performance you want to make sure that you're honoring the integrity and protecting the integrity of who. like we're all here talking about this but ed and lindsey
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are in moscow now in real time. he's an historical figure but an historical figure who's still dealing with the repercussions of what happened, what we're all discussing casually is their daily reality. so be mindful of that and mindful of wanting to protect whatever this movie was for them as well. >> what do you think about all of that? i mean, did you meet edward snowden? did you study edward snowden? to what degree are you trying to capture the physical of this guy? >> when you're acting, people often talk about acting from tin side out and the outside in, and some actors say they prefer one or the other, and i've always found a mix of both is what works best for me. so i certainly studied as much as i could as far as what he said about why he did what he did and, you know, what was going through his head as he made the decision to act. but i also did get to meet him.
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when i got to meet him, my focus was actually less on those sorts of politics and more just on him, which is funny because he's always trying to take the attention off of himself personally and put the attention on the issues he's bringing up, which i admire, but i sort of disobeyed because i focused on him personally, how he sits, stands, walks, talks shakes your hand, eats, we ate lunch together, these are nuances that are valuable to me as i was putting together a performance. >> can you give me one example of something you gleaned from studying him that you used in your performance? >> well, like, i noticed right off the bod from the very first moment i met him, he's very gentlemanly, and you don't expect that because the stereotype in our culture, right or wrong, is that guys who are good at computers are socially awkward, and i guess i admit i was maybe, you know, guilty of
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some of that prejudice and expecting that he might be that way because he's really good at computers, but that's not what i found. i found somebody who look you right in the eye, give me a warm handshake and he's almost old fashioned in his sort of manners and that was something i really wanted to incorporate. >> what's going on? who's winning? >> michelle obama voted this morning in chicago... >> still early. -- a traditional republican state that turned into a battleground. >> obama has 67% to 32%... she's got florida. she's going to win it. >> florida? yeah. that's big. huge! you can act all nonchalant but i know you're starting to root for
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him. i have been watching your inner liberal grow to which i will take a small percentage of the credit. >> you deserve it. ( laughter ) what is it? >> oh, yeah. that -- just leave that there. russian hackers, agency says they can activate webcams now. >> that's creepy. yes, bothering me. whatever. it's not a big deal, you shouldn't let it bother you. >> not a big deal. . what, that someone could be watching you now? >> let's talk about the relationship of the characters and the role they play in the story. >> a lot are familiar with the name edward snowden. our country has a lot of strong opinions about him, whether people agree or don't agree with what he did, they have a loft strong judgments and beliefs but they're based on only a few
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narratives of the journalists, our government, president obama, and we don't know the whole story, we don't know why ed did what he did. in this movie you see why, but a big part is grounded in the humanity that is the relationship of lindsey and ed. i think that something all of us can relate to is the foundation of love and the trials and tribulations that occur within partnership. lindsey is -- they'd been together for nine years when ed decided to do what he did, and i think throughout those nine years, there is obvious ups and downs, but they stayed together, and it wasn't always easy. he wasn't able to explain to her what he was encountering at work or the information that he had been entrusted with and what he was doing. but there is stale foundation of the relationship that kept them together. >> did working on this film affect your own habits when it came to privacy? do you do anything differently?
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do you think about things differently? >> i think i was very cavalier before i worked on this movie about my online relationship to technology, but subsequently i have put tape over camera and my laptop, i reinforced my passwords and enacted two-step verification on all my handheld devices. if they want in, they will get in. people are far more advanced than i ever will be with that kind of thing. we were talking about the distinction between paranoia and awareness. paranoia suggesting there is no credible reason for concern, which obviously in this case is not applicable. this is about being aware and being vigilant and being as proactive as possible and in addition to the responsibility that we have to hold our government accountable, you know, to this indiscriminate intrusion and constitutional violation of our privacy, we also have the opportunity to be
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aware of how vulnerable we are and to protect ourselves and that's what i've tried to do as much as i can. >> oliver, tape over the laptop camera, yes or no? >> yes. thank you very much for coming by. >> thank you. good luck with th the film. thank you. >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at and captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh
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>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.
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