tv PBS News Hour Debates 2016 A Special Report PBS October 4, 2016 6:00pm-7:37pm PDT
>> stronger yet. >> with the strong leadership that donald trump is bringing to the white house we're very confident that we can bring real change. >> things work better when we work as a team. that's what hillary clinton believes. >> when we elect donald trump they will have a team and partner in the white house. a stronger and greater america.
>> ifill: i'm gwen eiffel. >> woodruff: welcome to this pbs "newshour" special coverage of the vice presidential debate between republican mike pence and democrat tim kaine. the stage is said at longwood, university in farmville, virginia, with the level of anticipation pales in comparison to last week's showdown between hillary clinton and donald trump there is still a lot on the line. >> . >> ifill: there s. it's a chance for to introduce themselves to the nation but more important, to bolster the top of the respective ticket. elaine quijano of cbs news will moderate. joining us are regular contributors, syndicated columnist mark shields, from the "cook political report" amy walter and "washington post" columnist mike
it gerson. welcome all. here is the question of the night. why does the vice presidential debate matter?
michael gerson? >> well, i think republicans need some good news after historic trouncing. there's morale issue here. and they need a good night. >> woodruff: amy walter 124. >> i agree. they have the role of playing stabilizer. for mike pence it is to get trump and the trump campaign back on track to stabilize after the big fall of this past week. and for tim kaine the stabilize hillary clinton's lead. she has the momentum, she's looking strong right now. but can he help her withstand from mike sex go to be a much more focused and much more policy oriented. critique of the clinton campaign. >> ifill: who are the stakes higher for? >> i think obviously higher for pence and for trump. because he's trying to stop the bleeding, trying to right the ship from listing or whatever. whatever miami fore. he had a terrible week, just a
and correspondent for cbs news it's an hon for to moderate this debate between senator tim kaine and governor mike pence. both are long time public servants who are also proud fathers of sons serving in the u.s. marines. the campaign have agreed to the rules of this 90-minute debate. there will be nine different segments covering domestic and foreign policy issues. each segment will begin with question of both candidates who will each have two minutes to answer. facilitate a discussion between the candidates. by coin toss senator kaine will be first to answer the opening question. they have agreed to only express that enthusiasm once at the end of the debate and right now as we welcome governor mike pence and senator tim kaine. [ applause ]
>> gentlemen, welcome it truly is a privilege to be with both of you tonight. i'd like to start with the topic of presidential leadership. 28 years ago tomorrow night, said the vice presidential debate was not about the qualifications for the vice president see but about how if tragedy should occur the vice president has to step in without any margin for error, without time for preparation, to take over the responsibility for the biggest job in the world. what about your qualities, your skills your temperament that equips you at a moment's notice. >> thank you for being here
tonight. governor pence well cobble, it is so great to be back at longwood university in
farmville, virginia. this is a very special place. 65 years ago a young courageous woman, barbara johns, led a walk out of her high school, moton high school she made history by protesting school segregation, she believed our nation was stronger together and that walk-out led to the brown versus board of education decision that moved us down the path toward equality. i am so proud to be running with another strong history-making woman, hillary clinton, to be
president of the united states. i'm proud because her vision of stronger together, building an economy that works for all not just those at the top. being safe in the world, not only with the strong military but also strong alliances to battle terrorism and climate change. and also to build a community of respect just like barbara johns tried to do 65 years ago. that's why i'm so proud to be her running mate. hillary told me why she asked me to be her running mate. the test of a clinton administration will not be the
signing of a bill or passage of a bill. it will be whether we can make somebody's life better. whether we could make a classroom better, learning environment for school kids or teachers. whether we can make a -- going to be about results she said to me, you've been a missionary and a civil rights lawyer, you've been a city councilman, lieutenant governor and governor now u.s. senator, i think you will help me figure out how to govern this nation so we calls keep in mind that the success of the administration is the difference we make in people's lives. and that's what i bring to the ticket. that experience having served
at all levels of government. but my primary role is to be hillary clinton's right hand person and strong supporter as she puts together the most historic administration possible. i relish that role, i'm so proud of her. i'll just say this. we trust hillary clinton my wife and i we trust her with the most important thing in our life, we have son deployed overseas in the marine corps, we trust hillary clinton as president and commander in chief, but the
ticket. i have to tell you i'm a small town boy from place not too different from farmville. i grew up in the corn field with my back yard, my grandfather emigrated to this country when he was about my son's age. my mom and dad built everything that matters in small town in southern indiana. they built a family and a good name. and a business and they raised a family. i dream some day of representing my hometown in washington, d.c. but i honestly, elaine, never imagined i'd have the opportunity to be governor of the state that i love. let alone be sitting at a table like. this in this kind of a position. so, to answer your question, i would say, i would hope that if the responsibility ever fell to me in this role, that i would meet it with a role that i'm going to meet the responsibility, should i be elected vice president of the united states, that's to bring a lifetime of experience. a lifetime growing up in a small town, a lifetime where i served in the congress of the united
kids. as a civil rights lawyer in the south with the childrens defense fund, first lady of arkansas and this country's senator, secretary of state, it's always been about putting other first. that's a sharp contrast with donald trump. donald trump always puts
himself first. he built a business career in the words one of his own campaign staffers, off the backs of the little guy, that is a candidate he started his campaign with a speech where he called mexicans rapists and criminals and he has pursued the really outrageous lie that president obama wasn't born in the united states. it is so pantoufle suggested that we go back to think about these days where an african american could not be a citizen of the united states, i can't imagine how governor pence can defend the insult-driven, selfish me style of donald trump. >> governor pence let me ask you you have said donald trump is, quote, thoughtful, passionate and steady. yet 67% of voters feel he is a risky choice and 65% feel he
ank you, senator. >> praise vladimir putin as a great leader. >> we do have that coming up here. in the meantime,
the question -- >> i hit a nerve here because at a time of great challenge, in the life of this nation, where we have weakened america's place in the world. stifled america's economy, campaign of hillary clinton and tim kaine has been avalanche of insults. to get to your question about trustworthiness. donald trump has built a business. through hard times and through good times. he's brought an extraordinary business accumen, he's employed tens of thousands of people in this country. >> and paid no tax and lost a billion dollars a year. >> why the disconnect with your running mate? >> there's a reason why peopl people -- question the trustworthiness of hillary clinton that's because they're paying attention. the reality is when she was secretary of state, senator, come on, she had a clinton foundation accepting contributions from foreign
governments -- >> you and donald trump -- let me talk about this -- senator i think i'm -- this street my time. >>
isn't this a discussion? >> these are open -- let's talk about -- governor -- let me interrupt you i'll finish my sentence if i can. the clinton foundation accepted foreign contributions from foreign governments and foreign donors while she was secretary -- >> okay you, no i can -- she had a private -- i get to weigh in now -- senator -- that paid -- you have an opportunity -- >> governor pence doesn't think the world is going so well going to say -- >> do you? >> let me tell you this. when hillary clinton became secretary of state governor pence osama bin laden was apply. we had 175,000 troops deployed in the battlefield in iraq and afghanistan. do you know that iran was racing toward nuclear weapon and russia was expanding the stockpile. under secretary clinton's leadership she was part of the national team public safety team that went after and revived the
dormant how to -- against bin laden wiped him often the face of the worth. work add deal with the russians to decrease their chemical weapons. a tough negotiation with nations around the world to eliminate the iranian nuclear weapon program without firing a shot. >> eliminate the iranian -- absolutely. without firing a shot. instead of 175,000 american troops deployed overseas now we 15,000. these are very -- >> iraq has been over run by isis. because hillary clinton -- >> if you want to -- -- hillary clinton -- >> failed to renegotiate a status of forces agreement. >> that is inject gentlemen -- we removed up a of our -- and ice -- >> i'd like to move on to the -- but i'd like to correct -- governor -- president bush said we would leave iraq at the end of 2011. elaine, iraq didn't want our troops to stay. they wouldn't give us the protection for our troops. guess what, if a nation where our troops are serving does not
quote quote quote
want us to say we will not -- >> failure of the secretary of state -- >> gentlemen -- there are lot of people wondering about the economy. let's turn to the issue of the economy. according to the nonpartisan committee for responsible federal budget, neither of your economic plans will reduce the growing $19 trillion gross national debt, in fact, your plan would add even more to it. both of you were governors who balanced state budgets. are you concerned that adding more to the debt could be disastrous for the country? governor pence? >> i think the fact that under this past administration of which hillary clinton was a part we've almost doubled the national debt. it's atrocious. i'm very proud of the fact that i come from a state that work, state of indiana, has balanced budgets. we cut taxes, we made record investments in education and in infrastructure. and i still finished my term with $2 billion in the bank. that's a little bit different
than when senator kaine was governor here in virginia. he actually tried to raise taxes by about $4 billion he left his state about $2 billion in the hole. state of indiana we've put unemployment in half, unemployment doubled. i think i think he's very fitting running mate for hillary clinton. because in the wake of a season where american families are struggling in this economy under the weight of higher taxes and obamacare and the war on coal and stifling avalanche of regulation coming out of this administration, hillary clinton and tim kaine want more of the staple. really is remarkable. but they actually are advocating trillion dollars in tax increases, which i get that, you tried to raise taxes here in virginia, were unsuccessful. but a trillion dollars in tax increases, more regulation, more of the same war on coal and more of obamacare. now even former president bill clinton calls obamacare a crazy plan. hillary clinton and tim kaine want to build on obamacare,
expand into a single pair program for all the world hillary clinton just thinks it's a good start. donald trump and i have plan to get this economy moving again. just the way that it worked in the 1980s, just the way it worked in the 1960s. that is by lowering taxes across the board for working families, small businesses and family farms. ending war on coal that is hurting johns jobs and hurting this economy even here in virginia. repealing obamacare, lock stock and barrel and repealing all of the executive orders that barack obama has signed that are stifling economic growth in this country. we can get america moving again. on top of that the kind of trade deals that put the american worker first and you've got prescription for real growth. when you get the economy growing, elaine, that's when you can deal with the national debt. when we get back to 3.a to 4% growth with donald trump's plan will do then we'll have resources to meet our nation's needs at home and abroad. and we're going to have ability
to bring down the national debt. >> senator. i on the economy there's a fundamental choice for the american electorate, or do you want your fired president in donald trump. i think that's not such a hard choice. hillary and i have plan on the table that is a "you're hired." plan. first thing we invest in manufacturing infrastructure and research in the clean energy jobs of tomorrow. second thing we invest in our work forbs from precompany k education to great teachers to debt free college and tuition free college for families that make less than $125,000 a year. third, we promote fairness by
raising the minimum wage so you can't work full time be under the poverty level by paying women equal pay for equal work. fourth, we promote small business growth. just as we've done in virginia. to make it easier to start and grow small businesses, hillary and i grew in small business families. my dad ran iron working and welding shop, he's here. we target tax relief to middle
class and small businesses ask those at the very top who benefited as we've come out of resection to pay more. the trump plan is a different plan. it's a "you're fired" plan there's two key elements to it. first, donald trump said wages are too high. and both donald trump and mike pence think we ought to eliminate the federal minimum wage. mike pence in congress voted against raising the minimum wage above $5.15's been a one-man bulwark against increases in indiana. the second component of plan is massive tax breaks for the very top. trillions of dollars of tax breaks for people just like donald trump. the problem with this, elaine, that's exactly what we did ten years ago and put the economy in to the deepest recession, the deepest resection since the 1930s. independent analysts say clinton plan would grow the economy by 10.5 million jobs, the trump plan would cost $3.a million jocks. and donald trump, why would he
do this? because his tax plan basically helps i am him ever met his promise. he gave his tax returns to the american public like he said he would. we would see just how much his economic plan is really a trump first plan. >> upon that point, governor pence, recently the "new york times" released part of mr. trump's 1995 tax return reported that he could have avoided paying federal information taxes for years. yesterday mr. trump said he brilliantly jeweled the law to pay as little tax as legally possible. is does that seem fair to you? >> well, first let me say, i -- i appreciated you're hired you're fired, you use that a whole lot you are running that use of predone lines. what you all just heard out there, is more taxes, $2 trillion in more spending, more deficits, more debt, more government and if you think that's all work then you look at the other side of the table.
the truth of the matter is that policies of this administration which hillary clinton and senator kaine want to continue have run this economy into a ditch. we're -- >> in new jobs? >>
since the great jobs? >> but my question -- millions more people living in poverty today than the day that barack obama with hillary clinton at his side -- >> and the poverty level and median income -- >> were the lowest in -- in 2014 -- honestly, senator, you can roll out the numbers and the sunny side i got to tell you people in scranton know different. people in fort wayne, indiana, know different. this economy is struggling. the answer to this economy is not more taxes -- >> but not the tax relief for the folks -- >> i am -- governor dash somebody. >> i'm interested if he will -- with all due respect the question was about whether it seems fair to you that mr. trump said he brilliant leap jeweled the law to pay as little tax as legally possible. >> this is probably the
difference between donald trump and hillary clinton and senator kaine. hillary clinton and senator kaine and -- god bless you for it -- career public servants, that's great. donald trump is a businessman. not a career politician. he actually built a business -- the tax returns that came out publicly showed that he faced some pretty tough times 20 years ago. but like virtually every other business including the "new york times" not too long ago he used mid operating loss. we have street tax code, senator, that actually is designed to encourage entrepreneurship -- >> why don't he release his tax returns? >> we're answering the question about business thing. is -- >> i do want to come back to that. >> his tax returns, showed he went through a very difficult time used the tax code just the way it's supposed to be used he did it brilliantly. >> how do you know that? >> because he's created a business that's worth billions of dollars -- >> how do you know that 124. >> with regard to paying taxes, this whole about not paying
taxes and people saying he didn't pay taxes for years. donald trump has created tens of thousands of jobs and he's paid pay -- >> let me talk about that. >> senator i'll give you 30 seconds is to respond to the question -- >> going to raise taxes and we're going to cut them. >> donald trump started this campaign in 2014 he said if i run for president i will absolutely release my taxes. he's broken -- >> will. >> he's broken his first promise. second, he -- >> he hasn't -- stood on the stage last week when hillary said you haven't is been paying taxes he said "that makes me smart. it's smart not to pay for our military. is smart not to pay for veterans. smart not no pay for teachers. i guess all of us who do pay those things i guess we're stupid. >> do you take all the -- >> the last thing i want to ask governor pence -- >> i do. >> governor pence had to give donald trump his tax returns to show he was qualified to be vice president. donald trump must give the american public his tax returns to show that he's qualified to
be president and breaking his promise. >> elaine, i have to respond to this. >> you get very little time. 20 seconds. >> i'll be -- donald trump has filed over 100 pages of financial disclosure is which is what the law requires. >> he said would -- you can preview that he's going -- senator -- >> i need to ask you -- about social security. >> richard nixon released tax returns when he was -- >> and -- governor -- you -- >> the people at home cannot understand either one of you when you speak over each other i would please ask you to wait until it is the other is finished. >> we're having fun up here. >> the issue of social security. in 18 years the social security trust funds run outed of money you'll be 76. the committee for responsible federal budget estimates your benefits could be cut by as much as 7500 dollars per year. what would your administration do to prevent this cut? >> first, we're going to protect social security which is one of
the greatest programs that the american government has ever done. it happened at time when would you work your whole life, your whole life raising your ted kids, working, little league coach or sunday schoolteacher then retire into poverty. social security has enabled people to retire with dignity and overwhelmingly not be in poverty. we have to keep it solvent. we will keep it solvent. we'll look for strategies like adjusting the payroll tax cap upward in order to do that. here is what hillary and i will not do. i want to make? very plain. we will never, ever engage in risky scheme to privatize social security. donald trump wrote a book he said, social security is a ponzi scheme and privatization would be good for all of us. and when congressman pence was in congress, he was the chief cheerleader for the privatization of social security. even after president bush stopped pushing for it, congressman pence kept pushing for it. we're going to stand up against that efforts to
security and we'll look for ways to keep it solvent going forward focusing primarily on the payroll tax cut. >> governor pence give you an opportunity to respond. >> well, thanks,
elaine. there they go again. -- we have said about social we'll meet our lab gay evacuations to our seniors. >> read the book. >> we'll meet obligations of medicare that's what this campaign is about. i get this. this is the old scare tactic that they -- >> but you have a voting record, governor. >> i did all of that. look, i -- there's a question that you asked -- >> i can't believe -- have to go back to -- look, you are running with hillary clinton who wants to raise taxes by trillion dollars, increase spending by $2 trillion. and you say you're going to keep the promises of social security. donald trump and i are going to cut taxes. we're going to -- >> you're not going to cut taxes raise taxes on middle class. >> meet the obligations of social security and -- stay on
the path that your party has us on we'll be in a mountain range of debt and we're going to face hard -- >> gentlemen, i want to move on now -- >> the question about debt, the debt explosion on the trump plan is much, much bigger than anything on the -- >> all right, let me move on now to the issue of law enforcement. and race relations. law enforcement and race relations. after the dallas police shooting, police chief david brown said, quote, we're asking cops to do too much in this country. every society at failure we put it off on the caps to solve. not enough mental health funding, not enough drug addition funding, schools fail, let's give it to the cops. do we ask too much of police officers in this country and how would you specific ly address the chief's concern? senator cane? >> think that's a very care comment. i think we put a lot on police shoulders. this is something i have a lot of scar tissue on. i was a city council and mayor in richmond one of the highest
homicide rates. we fought very, very hard over the course of my time in local office with our police department, we reduelsed our homicide rate -- reduced our homicide rate in half. when i was governor of virginia we worked hard, too. and we did something -- we had really wanted to do for the first time ever we cracked the top ten, ten safest states because we worked together. here is what i learned as a mayor and as a governor. the way you make communities safer and make police safer is through community policing. you build the bonds between the community and the police force, build bonds of understanding. and then when people
feel comfortable in their communities that gap between the police and the community they serve narrows. when that gap narrows it's safer for the communities and safer for the police. that model still works across our country, but there are some other model, is that don't work. overly aggressive one militarized model, donald trump said we need to do more stop and frisk around the country. that would be a big mistake.
because it polarizes the relationship between the police and the community. here
is what we'll do. we'll focus on community policing, we will focus on and hillary clinton has rolled out really comprehensive mental health reform package that she worked on with law enforcement professionals. and we will also fight scourge of gun violence. i'm a gun owner. i'm a strong second amendment supporter i got a lot of scar tissue when i was governor of virginia there was horrible shooting at virginia tech, we learned that through that pai painful situation that the record check system should have been close cad have prevented that crime. we're going to work to do things like close background record checks. and if we do we won't have the tragedy that we did. one of those killed at virginia tech was guy was a 70 plus year old romanian holocaust survivor. he survived the holocaust then soviet union take over of his country. but then he was a visiting professor at v. tech he couldn't
survive the scourge of gun violence. we can support the second amendment do things like background record checks and that will make police safer, too. >> governor pence? >> my uncle was a cop. career cop. on the beat in downtown chicago. he was my hero growing up, we grew up to visit my dad's family in chicago, my three brothers and i would marvel at my uncle when he came out in husband uniform with side arm. police officers are the best of us. if men and women, white, african american, asian, latino, hispanic they put their lives on the line every single day. lot me say, at the risk of agreeing with you, community policing is a great idea. it's worked in the hoosier state. and we fully support that. donald trump and i are going to make sure that law enforcement have the resources and tools to
be able to really restore law and order to the cities and communities of this nation. probably why the 330,000 members of the fraternal order of listen doored donald trump as the next president of the united states of america because they see his commitment. they see his commitment to law and order. but they also hear the bad mouthing -- the bad mouthing that comes from people that seize upon tragedy in the wake of police acts and shootings as a reason to use a broad brush to accuse law enforcement of implicit bias or institutional racism. that really has got to stop. i mean, when an african american police officer in charlotte, all-star football player who went to liberty university here in the state, came home, followed his dad into law enforcement, joined the force in charlotte.
in 2014, was involved in police action shoot that claimed the life of keith lamont scott it was a tragedy. we mourn with those who mourn, we're saddened at the loss of life. but hillary clinton actually referred to that moment as example of implicit bias in the police force where she use -- she was asked in the debate whether there was implicit bias in law enforcement her only answer is there is implicit bias in everyone in the united states. >> can i explain -- >> what we ought to do is stop seizing on these moments of tragedy, we are assured the public that the full and complete and transparent investigation whenever there is loss of life because of police action. but senator, please, enough of this seeking every opportunity to demean law enforcement broadly by making -- >> elaine -- of explicit bias. >> delay, people shouldn't be afraid to bring up issues of
bias in law enforcement if you're -- >> i'm not afraid to bring that up. >> if you're afraid top the discussion you'll never solve it. so, here is an example. heartbreaking, we would agree. the guy who was killed in st. paul, he was a worker, a valued worker in a local school. and he was killed for no apparent reason, an incident that will be discussed and will be investigated. but when folks went and explored this situation, what they found is that castillo they called him mr. rogers in dread locks, kids love ed him. he had been stopped by police 40 or 50 times. before that fatal incident. if you look at sentencing in this country, african americans and latinos get sentenced for the same crimes at very different rates. we -- >> justice reform. we knew of his past -- >> just say those who say -- should not be able to bring up and talk about bias in the
i signed reform in the state of indiana. and we're very proud of it. i worked when i was in congress on the second chance act, we have got to do a better job recognizing and correcting the errors in the system that do reflect institutional bias in criminal justice. but donald trump and i are saying is, let's not have the reflects of assuming the worst of men and women in law enforcement. we truly do believe that law enforcement is not -- >> elaine -- >> what would you say to senator scott, governor. >> law enforcement in this country is a force for good. they are -- they truly are people that put their lives on the line every single day. but i would suggest to you, what we need to do is assert a stronger leadership in the national level to support law enforcement. you just heard senator kaine kaine reject stop and frisk. i would suggest to you that the families that live in our inner
cities that are besieged by crime -- >> what about sen for scott, who would you tell senator scott? >> i could -- 've heard senator school make that eloquent ly. criminal justice is about respecting, there is fundamental request here. i just want to talk about the tone that set from the top. donald trump during his campaign called mexicans rapists and criminals. he's called women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting. i don't like saying that in front of my wife and my mother. he attacked an indiana born federal judge said he was unqualified to hear federal lawsuit because his parents were mexican. he went after john mccain, a p.o.w. said he wasn't a hero because he'd been captured. he said african americans are living in hell. and he perpetrated this outrageous and bigoted lies that president obama is not u.s. citizen. if you want to have society where people are respected and respect laws, you can't have somebody at the top who demeans
every group that he takes about. i just, again, i cannot believe that governor pence will defend the insult-driven campaign that donald trump has run. >> i want to turn to our next segment now, immigration. your running mates have both said that undocumented immigrants who have committed violent crimes should be deported. what would you tell the millions of undocumented immigrants who have not committed violent crimes. governor pence? >> donald trump has plan to end illegal immigration. once and for all in this country. we've been stalking for 20 years, hillary clinton and tim kaine want to continue policies of open borders, amnesty, catch and release, sanctuary cities, all the things that are driving wages down in this country, senator. also too often with rimmial aliens in the country it's been heartbreak. donald trump has a plan. that he laid out in arizona.
that will deal systematically with illegal immigration, beginning with border security. probably why for first time in the history of immigration and customs enforcement, their union endorsed donald trump as next president of the united states because they know they need help. to enforce the laws of this country. and donald trump has laid out a priority to remove criminal aliens, remove people over stayed their visas and once we have accomplished all of that, which will strengthen our economy, strengthen the rules of law and make our communities safer once rimmial aliens are out then deal with those that remain. >> i have to tell you i was listening to the avalanche of insults coming out of senator kaine a minute ago. these were -- >> hold on a second. my time, senator. you. had your two minutes. >> says sours an insult-driven campaign? did you all just hear that? ours is an insult-driven
campaign? to be honest with you if donald trump said all the things that you said he said in the way you said he said them, he still wouldn't have a fraction of the insults that hillary clinton leveled when she said that half of our supporters were a basket of deplorable s. she said they were eerie deemable. they were not americans. it's extraordinary. then she railed one after another isms on millions of americans who believe that we can have a stronger america at home and abroad, believe we can get this economy moving again who believe that we can end illegal immigration once and for all. so, senator, this insult-driven campaign -- >> governor -- that is small potatoes compared to hillary clinton called half of donald trump's supporters -- >> hillary clinton said something on campaign trail over very next day, i shouldn't have said that. >> but she did. >> senator kaine's two minutes. >> that's right. now we're even.
donald trump apologizing to john mccain for saying he wasn't a hero. did he apologize for calling women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting? >> she apologized for saying -- governor -- two minutes, please. >> donald trump apologize for taking after somebody in a twitter war making fun of weight. 'pom guys for saying african americans are living in hell. did he apologize saying president obama was not even a citizen of the united states? you will
look in vein to see donald trump ever taking responsibility for anybody and apologizing. immigration, there's two plans on the table. hillary and i believe in comprehensive immigration reform, donald trump believes in deportation nation. you have to pick your choice. we want bipartisan reform, that will put keeping families together as the top. second, that will help focus enforcement efforts on those who are violent. third, that will do more border control and fourth, will provide a path of citizenship to shows
who work hard, pay taxes, play by the rules. criminal background checks that's our propose l. donald trump proposes to deport 16 million people. 11 million who are here without documents. and both donald trump and mike pence want to ged get rid of birthright citizen ships f. you're born here but parents don't have documents, they want to eliminate that, that's another 4.a million people. these guys and donald trump has said it deportation force. they want to go house to house, school to school, business to business, and kick out 16 million people. i cannot believe -- >> it's not -- r. >> i cannot believe that governor pence would sit here defend his running mate's claim that we should have deportation. >> we have door pore takes called, immigration and customs enforcement. the union for immigration stand customs enforcement for the first time in their history endorsed donald trump to be the next president of the united states. >> but you like the 16 million -- >> senator, that's nonsense.
what you just heard is they have a plan for open borders, amnesty -- >> our plan is like ronald reagan's plan -- >> call it comprehensive immigration reform. we know the routine. it's amnesty, you heard one of the last things he mentioned was border security. that's how washington always plays it. >> no -- governor -- >> mentioned for -- governor pens was against it. >> dash. >> it's not a nation. donald trump committed to restoring the borders of -- >> governor how would threes millions ever undocumented immigrants leave? would they be forcibly removed. >> i think donald trump played -- laid out series of that doesn't end with border security, it begins there. and after we secure the border, not only build a wall but beneath ground and in the air, we do internal enforcement, but he said the focus has to be on criminal aliens. we just had conversation about law enforcement. we had conversation about the
violence that's in our cities, reality, is that there's heartbreak and tragedy that has struck american families because country i willlily. they are now involved in criminal enterprise and activity and we don't have resource or the will to deport them systematically. donald trump said those people out, people overstayed their visas we're going to enforce the law of this country. we're going to strengthen immigrations and customs enforcements with more resources and more personnel
to be able to do. that then donald trump made it clear, once we've done all of those things, we're going to reform the immigration system -- >> i have to correct you -- of this country. the order that you should do it, border security, removing criminal aliens, upholding the law then senator, all work with you when you go back to the senate i promise you we'll work with you to reform the immigration system. >> i look forward to working together in whatever capacity we serve in.
but i just want to make it very, very clear. that he's trying to fuzz up that donald trump has said when donald trump spoke in phoenix he looked the ought yens in the eye, we're building a wall. we're deporting everybody. he said, quote, they will all
be gone. they will all be gone. this is one of these ones where you can just go to the tape on it and see what donald trump has said. and to add to it, we are a nation of immigrants. mike pence and i both are descendants of immigrant families. maybe weren't said so great about the irish when they came. but we've done well by absorbing immigrants and made our nation stronger. when donald trump says mexicans are rapists and criminals, when donald trump says about your judge a hoosier judge he said that judge was unqualified to hear a case because his parents were mexican. i can't imagine how you can defend that. >> gentleman gentlemen, shift to the threat of terrorism. do you think the world today is
a safer or more dangerous place than it was eight years ago. how terrorist threat increased or decreased. senator kaine? >> the terrorist threat has decreased in some ways because bin lad sended. the terrorist threat has decreased because iranian nuclear weapon program has been stopped. the terrorist threat to united states troops has been decreased in some ways because there's not 1715,000 in the dangerous part of the world there's only 15,000. but there are other parts of the world that are challenging. let me tell you this, to beat terrorism only one candidate can do it is hillary clinton. remember hillary clinton senator from new york on 9/11. she was there at the world trade center when they were still searching for victims and survivors, that seared on to her. the need to beat terrorism she has plan to do it. she was part of the national security team that wiped out bin laden. here is her plan to defeat isil, keep taking out their leaders on the battlefield. part of the team that got bin
laden, she'll lead the team that will get the head of isis. second, we got disrupt financing that works. third, disrupt their ability to recruit on the internet, in their safe havens, but fourth, we also have to work with allies to share and surge intelligence. that is the hillary clinton plan she's got the experience to do it. donald trump. donald trump can't start a twitter war with miss universe without shooting himself in the foot. donald trump doesn't have the plan. he said, i have secret plan, then he said, um, i know more than all the generals about isil then i'm going to call the generals to figure out plan and finally he said, i'm going to fire all the generals. he doesn't have a plan. but he does have dangerous ideas. here is one. he trash talks the militariment the military is disaster, john mccain's no hero, generals need all to be fired i know more than them. he wants to tear up alliances. nato is obsolete will only work together with israel if they pay
is less safe today than it was before barack obama became united states, in arguable. weakened america's place in the world. it's been a combination of factors mostly been lack of leadership. i will give you, i was in washington, d.c. on 9/11. i saw the clouds of smoke rise from the pentagon. >> i was in virginia. >> know you were. we all lived through that day as a nation, it was heartbreaking. i want to give this president credit for bringing osama bin laden to justice. the truth is, osama bin laden led al qaeda. a primary threat today is isis. because hillary clinton failed to renegotiate a status of forces agreement that would have allowed some american combat troops to remain in reaction and secure the hard fought gains the american soldier had won by 2009, isis was able to be
administration created a vacuum which isis is able to grow. and reference to iranian deal. the iranian deal which hillary clinton initiated, $150 billion for -- >> stopping without -- it didn't stop the -- yes, we did. >> you even -- i rayly military says -- you guaranteed that iran will become nuclear power because there's no limitations once the period of time. >> governor pence, mr. trump proposed extreme vetting from parts of the world that export terrorism. but that does not address many of the recent terrorists attacks in the united states, such sass the orlando nightclub massacre and recent bombing in new york and new jersey. those were home grown committed by u.s. citizens and legal residents. what is specific tools would you use to prevent those kinds of attacks? >> well, i think it's -- i think it's a great question. it begins with us reforming our
immigration system and putting the interest with safety and security of the american people first. donald trump has called for extreme vetting for people coming in to this country so that we don't bring people in to the united states who are hostile to our bill of rights freedom. hostile to the american way of life. but also donald trump and i are committed to suspending syrian refugee program and programs in immigration from areas of the world that have been compromised by terrorism. hillary clinton and tim kaine want in to crease syrian refugee program by -- >> but my question was about home grown. >> gut first, let's make sure we're putting safety and security in the american people first instead of hillary clinton expanding the -- >> vim lating the constitution by blocking people based on their national origin rather than they're dangerous. >> that's absolutely false. >> that's what the seven circuit decided -- >> we have different views on refugee issues. and on immigration.
we want to do enforcement based on are people dangerous. they say all mexicans are bad. with respect to refugees, we want to keep people out if they're dangerous. donald trump said keep them out if they're muslim. mike pence put a program in place to keep them out if they're from syria. and yesterday an appellate court with three republican judges struck down the pence plan and said it was discriminatory and -- >> but they said -- focus on danger -- governor -- >> those judges said because there wasn't any evidence yet that isis had infiltrated the united states. germany just arrested three syrian refugees -- >> but they told you there is right way and wrong way to do it. >> if you're going to be critical of me on that that's fair game. i'll tell you after two syrian refugees were involved in the attack in paris that called paris' 9/11, as governor of the state of indiana, i have no higher priority than safety and security of the people of my state.
>> but governor -- i suspended that. >> but -- if i'm vice president of the united states or donald trump is president we are going to put -- >> can we just be clear. hillary and i will do immigration enforcement and we'll vet refugees basedded on whether they're dangerous or not. we won't do it based on discriminating against you from the country you come from or the religion. >> but the problem with that -- completely at the -- >> elaine the director of the fbi homeland security said, we can't know for certain who these people are coming -- >> don't let them know -- the -- and the fbi and homeland security said we can't know for certain, you've got to err on the side of the safety and security of the american people. senator i understand -- >> by trashing all muslims? >> senator kaine let me ask you, secretary clinton has talked about intelligence surge, what exactly would an intelligence surge look like and how would
that help identify terrorists with no operational connection to a foreign terrorist oregon nation. >> it's two things, elaine. it's first, dramatically expanding our intelligence capacities by hiring great professionals, but also we've got some of the best in tell and cyber-employees in the world right here in the united states working for many of our private sector companies. so, it involves increase but striking great partnerships with some of our cyber and in tell experts in the private sector to consistent with constitution principles gather more intelligence. second piece of this is really, really important. it also means, creating stronger alliances, because you gather intelligence then you share your intelligence back and forth with allies. and that is how you find out who may be trying to recruit, who may be trying to come from one country to the next. appliances are critical. that's why donald trump's claim that he wants -- that anyway foe is obsolete that we neat to get rid of anyway foe so so
dangerous. he sedney toe is obsolete. look, if you put aside you're alliance share intelligence with. hillary clinton is secretary much state who knows how to build alliances. she built the sanctions regime around the world that stopped the iranian nuclear weapons program that's what intelligence surge means. better skill and capacity but also better alliance. >> i'd like to turn now to the tragedy in syria. >> may i speak about cybersecurity surge at all? >> you can have 30 seconds, quickly. >> first donald trump just spoke about this issue this week. we have got to bring together the best resources this country to understand that cyber-warfare is a new warfare of the asymmetrical enemies that we face. i look forward to working with u in the sen at that time make sure that we resource that effort. >> whatever roles. >> intelligence, sir. i will also tell you that it's
important in this moment to remember that hillary clinton had a private server in her home that had classified information -- >> governor 30 seconds is up. >> about drone strikes, e-mails from the president of the united states of america were on there, her private server was subject -- >> governor i'd like to ask you about syria. governor. you have had a minute. -- >> that not one reasonable prosecute we're take any additional step. you don't get to decide that rights and wrongs we have justice system that does that. republican fbi director did an investigation concluded -- >> we are moving on now. 250,000 people, 100,000 of them are children -- governor -- >> that is absolutely false, you knee. >> you knee -- gentlemen, please! >> did an investigation. they concluded that there was -- >> senator! >> no probably prosecutor -- senator kaine, governor pence, please. i want to turn now to syria.
greatest nation on earth, just withdraws from talks about a cease fire while vladimir putin puts missile defense while he marshals the forces. we have got to begin to lean in to this strong and broad shouldered. begins by rebuilding our military. in the russians and chinese have been making enormous investments in the military, we have the smallest navy since 1916. we have the lowest number of troops since the end of the second world war. we got to work with the congre congress, donald trump will rebuild our military and project american strengths in the world. but about aleppo and syria, i truly do believe that is immediately establish safe zones so that families and vulnerable families with children can move out of those areas, work with our arab partners, realtime, right now to make that happen. and secondly, i just have to tell you that the provocations
by russia need to be met with american strength. and if russia chooses to be involved and continue i should say to be involved in this barbaric attack on civilians in alppo the united states should be prepared to use military force to strike military targets of the assad regime. to represent shim from this humanitarian crisis that is taking place in aleppo. there's a broad range of other things that we ought to do as well. we ought to deploy a missile defense shield to the czech republic and poland which hillary clinton and barack obama pulled back on out of not wanting to offend the russian -- >> your two minutes are up. >> we've just got hof american strength in the world stage when donald trump becomes president of the united states the russians and other countries in the world will know they're dealing with a strong american president. >> senator -- we also agree that the establishment much humanitarians on northern syria with the provision of international hue an aid consistent with u.n. security that was passed in
need to get this, the "new york times" story talks he probably didn't pay taxes for about 18 years starting in 1995. those years included the years of 9/11, get this. on 9/11 hillary clinton and donald trump's hometown was attacked. by the worst terrorist attack in the history of the united states. young men and women signed up to serve in the military to fight terrorism. hillary clinton went to washington to get funds to rebuild her city and protect first responders but donald trump was fighting a very different fight. it was fight to avoid taking taxes, so that he wouldn't support the fight against terrorism. >> the question is aleppo. >> he wouldn't support -- this is important, elaine. when a guy running for president will not support the troops, not support veterans, not support teachers, that's really important. i said about aleppo we do agree, notion is we have to create a humanitarian zone, it's very
important. >> governor pence, you had mentioned no-fly zone, where would you propose setting up a safe zone specifically? how would you keep it safe? >> first and foremost donald trump supports our troops. donald trump supports our veterans. >> he won't pay taxes. >> donald trump has paid all the taxes that he's -- do you not take the -- >> the question is about -- i'd like
to -- >> it is about our troops. >> i understand -- >> understand why you -- he won't pay taxes. >> i understand why you want to change the subject. let me be very clear son this russia thing the larger -- >> do you think -- the question is -- what we're dealing with is -- there's old proverb that says russian bear never dies it just hibernates. the truth of the matter is we can affect this foreign policy of hillary clinton and barack obama has awakened an aggression in russia that appeared a few years ago with the move in georgia you now move in to
crimeia and all the while, all we do is fold our arms say, we're not having talks any more. to answer your question, we just
need american strength. we need to marshal the resources of our allies in the region and end the immediate, we need to act, act now to get people out of harm's way. >> exactly how would the safe zones work. how would they remain safe? >> the shave zones would have to be as senator said, there's already a framework for this that's been recognized by the international community. united states of america needs to be prepared to work with our allies and the region, to create a route of safe passage then protect people in those areas including with the no-fly zone. look, this is very tough stuffed i served on the foreign affairs committee for a decade. i traveled in and out that have region for ten years, i saw what the american soldiers won in operation iraqi freedom. to see the feckless leadership that hillary clinton was the architect of, the foreign policy
of the obama -- >> let me come back to talk about -- >> it's deep ly troubling to me. he doesn't what to acknowledge that we stopped the iranian nuclear weapons program. he doesn't want to acknowledge that hillary was part of the team that got bin laden. he doesn't want to acknowledge that -- >> i just did. >> it's a good thing not a bad thing. that it's a good thing not a bad thing that we're down from 175,000 troops deployed overseas to 15,000. let me tell you what we're making the least dangerous. donald trump's idea that more nations should get nuclear weapons. saudi arabia, japan, south kiir rei can't. ronald reagan said something interesting about nuclear poe live rakes. he said the problem with nuclear proliferation, some fool or maniac could trigger a catastrophic event. i think that's who governor pens' running mate is. >> oh, come on. >> senator. >> that was even beneath you and hillary clinton. that's pretty low. >> do you think we should have
more nuclear weapons in the world will make us safer? >> senator, the -- ronald reagan said nuclear war should never be fought because it can never be won. the united states of america needs to make investments in modernizing our nuclear -- >> can you defend donald trump's claim that -- >> but let me go back to this iran thing. he keeps saying that they prevented -- that hillary clinton started the deal with the iranians, prevented iran from getting a nuclear weapon. they had -- >> chief of staff is saying. >> that's not what israel thinks -- >> you can check it. >> i know you boycott the prime minister netanyahu -- >> vivid him in his office. >> boycottedded speech. the point what this iran so-called iran deal did, is essentially guaranteed -- when i was in congress i fought hard on a bipartisan basis with
republican and democrat members to move forward the toughest sanctions it rim rally in the history of the united states. >> then then hillary -- glue is always that we only lift sanctions if iran permanently renounced their nuclear dasher. >> elaine let me just mention -- let me finish a sentence. they have renounced nuclear ambitions when the deal period runs out no limitation on obtaining weapons. >> very quick on -- the $1.7 million in ransom payment -- >> six times tonight i have said to governor pence i can't imagine how you can defend your running mate's position on one issue after the next. in all six cases he's refused to defend -- >> don't put words in my mouth. >> then yet
he is asking everybody to vote for somebody that he cannot defend. i just think that should be underlined. >> gentlemen, let's talk about russia, this is a topic that
is -- i will give you an opportunity to -- >> take them one at a time. >> get nuclear weapons. >> he never said that. >> all right. >> he absolutely said it. saudi arabia, south korea, japan. >> gentlemen, russian president invaded ukraine. and has provided crucial military support to the regime. what steps if any would your administration to counter these actions,. >> you got to be tough on russia let's start with not praise can vladimir putin as a great leader. donald trump and mike pence have said he's a great leader. donald trump -- >> no, we haven't. >> had business dealings with russia that he refuses to disclose. hillary clinton has gone toe to toe with russia. she went toe to toe with russia as sect of state to do the new start agreement to reduce russ russia's nuclear stockpile. she's had the experience doing it. she went toe to toe with russia and watched protests when they
went into georgia. and we've done the same thing about
ukraine but more than launching protests we put punishing economic sanctions on russia that we need to continue. donald trump on the other hand didn't know that russia had invaded the crimea he was on a tv show couple months back he said i'll guarantee you this, russia not going into the ukraine. he had to be reminded that they had gone into the cimea two years before. hillary clinton has gone toe to woe to work out deal. she got them engaininged in a meaningful way to cap iran's nuclear weapons program. you have to the ability, hillary does. on the other hand, in donald trump you have somebody who praises vladimir putin all the time. america should really wonder about a president trump who had a campaign manager with ties to putin, elements in the ukraine had to be fired for that reason.
they should wonder when donald trump is sitting down with vladimir putin is it going to be america's bottom line or is it going to be donald trump's bottom line that he's going to be worried about with all of his business dealings. should could be involved if donald trump would be willing to release his tax returns as he told the american public that he would do. i know he's laughing at this, but every president -- >> what's that have to do with russia. >> ever president has done it, donald trump has said i'm doing business with russia. only way the american public will see whether he has -- >> no he, he hasn't said that. >> senator -- >> thanks. just trying to keep up with the insult-driven campaign onment other side of the -- >> i'm just saying facts about your running mate. >> yeah. >> i know you can't defend him. >> governor -- don't put words in my mouth that i'm not defending him. >> you're not. >> i'm happy to defend him most of what you said is completely false. the american people know that. >> senator, please --
>> but this is the alternative universe of washington, d.c. versus reality. hillary clinton said her number one priority was reset with russia. that reset resulted in the invasion of ukraine. after they infiltrated with what are called little green men, russian soldiers that were dressing up like ukrainian dissidents. then they moved into crimea, took over the peninsula. he basically was saying it's not going to happen again. the truth of the matter is that what you have in the rise of aggressive russia which is increased influence in iran, that's now because of this deal is on pathway in the few fewer to obtain -- leading state sponsor of terror in the world in iran now has a closer working relationship with russia because of hillary clinton and barack obama's foreign policy. and $150 billion in sanctions
all being lifted. then of course syria, it really is -- syria is imploding you just asked very thoughtful question about the disaster in aleppo, isis is head quartered in roca, it has overwhelmed vast areas but great sacrifice the american soldier won in operation iraqi freedom. senator kaine sits her, loyal soldier i get all that, saying that the foreign policy of hillary clinton and barack obama somehow made the world more secure. really is astonishing -- >> i definite ly -- day that iran released four american -- >> all right -- delivered 400 million in cash as a ransom payment for americans held by radical in tehran -- >> governor says, putin has no respect for hillary clinton and no respect for obama. why do you think he'll respect a
trump-pence administration. >> strength. plain and simple. donald trump -- >> donald trump -- his son who says -- lead the -- please, give him chance to respond. >> going to rebuild our military. let me -- this whole putin thing. america is stronger than russia. our economy is 16 times larger than the russian economy. america's political system is superior to the crony corrupt capitalist system in russia in every way. when donald trump and i observe that as i've said in syria, in iran, in ukraine that the small and bullying leader of russia has been stronger on the world stage than this administration. that's stating painful facts. that's not an endorsement much vladimir putin that's indictment of the weak and feckless leadership of hillary clinton and barack obama. >> this is one where you just go
to the tape on it. governor pence sped inarguably, vladimir pout is in a better leader than -- >> that is absolutely inaccurate. >> and i just think -- i said he's been stronger on the world stage -- >> he said leader. i'll just say this, governors. if you mistake leadership for dictatorship and you can't tell the difference, country that's running its economy -- >> this is the thing -- if you can't tell the difference you shouldn't be commander in chief. donald trump's son say that they have all these business dealings with rush a. those could be disclosed with tax returns but they refuse to do that. americans need to worry about whether donald trump will watch out for america's bottom line or his own bottom line. >> senator kaine, what went wrong with the russia reset? >> vladimir putin. he is a dictator. >> what would do you differently? >> he's not a leader.
anybody who thinks otherwise doesn't know russian history and don't know videod mere putin. hillary clinton knows exactly what this guy s. john mccain said i look in his eyes i see kgb. hillary has that. it was hillary clinton who worked with russia to reduce the nuclear weapon stockpile. it was hillary clinton that worked with russia to get them engaged in community of nations to stop iranian nuclear weapons program without firing a shot. she's not going around praising vladamir putin as a great guy. but she knows how to sit down at a table and negotiate tough deals. this is a very challenging part of the world and we ought to have a commander in chief who is prepared and done it rather than somebody who goes around praising vladamir putin as a great leader. >> i'd like to ask now about north korea, iran and the threat of nuclear weapons. north korea recently conducted
its fifth and most powerful nuclear test. what specific steps would you take to prevent north korea from developing nuclear armed missile capable of reaching the united states? governor pence? >> first, we need to make a commitment to rebuild our military including modernizing our nuclear forces. and we also need -- also need an effective american diplomacy that will marshal the resources of nations in the asian pacific rim to put pressure on north korea on kim jong un to -- it these remain policy of the united states of america. the denyingization of them. when donald trump is president of the united states we're not going to have the kind of months touring in the world that has russia invading crimea and ukraine, chinese building new
islands in the south china sea that has world in cluing north korea flouting american power, we're going to go back to the days of peace through strength. but i have to tell you, all this talk about tax returns and i get it, you want to keep bringing that up, it must have -- >> until they -- the focus group. but here is -- hillary clinton and her husband set up a private foundation called the clinton foundation. why while she was secretary much state, the clinton foundation accepted tens of millions of dollars from foreign governments and foreign donors. now, y'all need to know out there this is basic stuff. foreign donors and certainly foreign development cannot participate in the american political process. they cannot make financial contributions. but the clintons figured out a way to create a foundation where foreign governments and foreign donors could donate millions of dollars and then we found, thanks to the good work of the associated press, that more than
half of her private meetings when she was secretary of state were given to major donors of the clinton foundation. you talk about all these baseless rumors about russia and the rest, hillary clinton, you asked the trustworthy question -- >> governor your two minutes are up. >> it's because they are looking at the pay to play politics that she operated with the clinton foundation through -- >> governor, please, your two minutes are up. >> saying enough to enough. >> senator kaine? >> i'm going to talk about the foundation then north korea. on the foundation, i am glad to talk about the foundation. clinton foundation is one of the highest rated charities in the world. it provides aids drugs to 11.5 million people. it helps americans deal with opioid overdoses, it gets higher ranking for its charity than american red cross does. the clinton foundation does an awful lot of good work. hillary clinton as secretary much state took no action to benefit the foundation.
state department did an investigation, they concluded that everything hillary clinton did as secretary of state was completely in the interest of the united states. so the foundation does good work and hillary clinton as secretary of state acted in the interests of the united states. but let's compare this now with the trump organization and the trump foundation. the trump organization is an octopus-like organization is with tentacles all over the world. whose conflict of interest to the only be known if donald trump would release his tax return. he's refused to do it. his sons have said that the organization has lot of business dealings in russia. and remember the trump organization is not a nonprofit it's putting money into donald trump's pockets and boot pockets of his children. where as the clinton foundation is a nonprofit and no clinton family member draws any salary. >> trump foundation nonprofit. >> in addition, donald trump has foundation. foundation was just fined for illegally contributing
foundation dollars to a political campaign of the florida attorney general. made illegal contribution then they tried to hide it by disguising as somebody else, the person they donated to somebody's whose office was charged with investigating trump university. this is the difference between a foundation that does good work and secretary much state who acted in accord with american interests. somebodywho is conflicted in doing work around the world won't share with the american public. what he's doing and what those conflicts are. >> governor i will give you 30 seconds
to respond because i know you want to but again i remind you this was about north korea. >> thank you. the trump foundation is a private family foundation they give virtually every cent in the trump foundation to charitable causes. >> political causes? >> ten cents on the dollar in the clinton foundation has gone to charitable -- >> $20,000 portrait of donald trump. >> ten cents on the dollar of the clinton have gone to
china will use their detail and security council to veto package like that. they are starting to get worried about north korea, too. they supported the sanctions package even though many of the sanctions are against chinese firms, chinese financial institutions. we're working together with china and we need to, china is another one of those relationships where its competitive, it's also challenging in times like north korea we have to be able to cooperate. hillary understands that very well. she went one famously to china stood up at human rights meeting looked them in the eye said, women's rights are human rights. they didn't want though say that but she d. but she's also worked on a lot of diplomatic and important diplomatic deals with china that's what it's going to take. the thing i would worry a little bit about is that donald trump owes about $650 million to banks including the bank of china, i'm not sure he can stand up so tough to the people who have loaned him money. >> all right, i'd like to turn to our next segment now.
i'd like to focus on social issues. you have both been open about the role that faith has played in your lives. can we discuss in detail a time when you struggled to balance your personal faith and public policy position. senator kaine. >> i grew up in a wonderful household with great irish catholic parents, my mom and dad are sitting right here. i was educated by jesuits at the high school in kansas city, my 40th reunion in ten days. i worked with jesuit mesharies in honduras now nearly 35 years ago they were the heroes of my life. i try to practice my religion in devout way following teachness of my church in my own personal life. i don't believe in this nation of first amendment nation where we don't raise any religion over the other. and we allow people to worship as they please. the doctrines of any one religion should be mandated for everyone.
for me the hardest central i will was catholic church's against death penalty, so am i. but i was governor of the state. state law said that there was a death pep at for crimes that the jury determined them to be heinous. so, i had to grapple with that running for governor he was attacked pretty strongly because of my position. i looked the voters of virginia in the eye said, look, this is my religion, i'm not going to change my religious practice to get one vote but i know how to take an oath and uphold the law if you elect me i will uphold the law. i was elected and i did. it was very, very difficult to allow executions to go forward but in circumstances where i didn't feel like there was case for clemency, i told virginia voters i would uphold the law and i did. that was real struggle. but i think it is really important that those of us who have deep faith lives don't feel like we can just substitute our own views for everybody ales in society regardless of their views.
>> governor pence? >> well, it's a wonderful question. my christian faith is at the very heart of who i am. i was also raised in a wonderful family of faith. it was church on sunday morning and grace before dinner. but my christian faith became real for me when i made a personal decision for christ when i was a freshman in college. and i've tried to live that out, however imperfect ly every day of my life since. with my wife at my side, we followed calling in the public service where we tried to keep faith with values that we cherish. with regard to when i struggle, i appreciate and i have a great deal of respect for senator kaine's sincere faith, i truly do. >> that's shared. >> for me, i would tell you that for me the sanctity of life
proceeds out of the belief that ancient principle that we're god's souls before you, r reformed. my first time in public life i stand with great compassion for the sanctity of life. state of indiana is also sought to make sure that we expand alternatives in health care congratulations for women non-abortion alternatives. also very pleased well on our way in indiana to becoming most pro adoption state in america. i think if you're going to be pro life you should be pro adoption. what i can't understand is with hillary clinton now senator kaine at her side, to support a practice like partial birth abortion, to hold to the view, i know senator kaine, you hold pro life views personal. but the very idea that a child that is almost born into the world could still have their
life taken from them is just -- i cannot -- i can't conscience about party that supports that. or that i know you've historically opposed taxpayer funding of abortion. but hillary clinton wants to repeal the long standing provision in the law where we said we wouldn't use taxpayer dollars to fund abortion. so, for me my faith -- i try to spend a little time on my knees every day but all for me begins with cherishing the dignity, the worth of values of every human life. >> elaine this is fundamental question. a fundamental question. hillary and i are both people out of religious backgrounds, her methodist church life was very formative for her. we should feel like you should live fully with enthusiasm the commands of your faith. but it is not the role of public servant to mandate that for everybody else. let's talk about abortion and
choice. let's talk about that. we support roe versus wade. we support the constitutional right of american women to consult their own conscience, their own supportive partner, their own minister but make their own decision about pregnancy. that's something that we trust american women to do that. we don't think that women should be punished as donald trump said they should, for making the decision to have an abortion. governor pence wants to repeal roe versus wade. he wants to put it on the ash heap of history, people in the audience who weren't even born. this is pretty important. before roe versus wade, states could pass criminal laws to do just that, to punish women if they made the choice to terminate a pregnancy. i think you should live your moral values but the last thing, the very last thing that government should do is have
quote quote quote
laws that will punish women who make reproductive choices. that is the fundamental difference between clinton-kaine ticket and a trump-pence ticket that wants to punish women. >> it's really not. donald trump and i would never support legislation that punished women who made heartbreaking choice to end a pregnancy. >> why did donald trump say that? >> look, it's -- he's not a polished politician like you and hillary clinton. and so -- >> i would say that's not -- but would have a -- >> the gospel of -- if i'm going to -- the mouth speaks. when donald trump says women should be punished or mexicans are rapists and criminals or john mccain not hero he is showing you who he is. >> senator, you ripped out that mexican thing again. look -- >> can you defend it? >> there are criminal aillyians in this country, tim, who have come into this country illegally
who are perpetrating -- >> you want to use a big broad brush against mexicans? >> also said, many are good people. you keep leaving that out of your quote if you want me to go there i'll go there. but here is -- there is a choice here. it is a choice on life. i couldn't be more proud to be standing with donald trump. standing for the right to life. it's a principle that senator kaine i'm very gentle about this because i really do respect you. it's a principle that you embrace and i have appreciated the fact that you've supported the hyde amendment that uses taxpayers, people need to understand we can come together as a nation, we can create a culture of life, more and more young people today are embracing life because we know we are -- we're better for it. we can, like mother teresa said -- >> this is important. >> bring the -- welcome the
children into a world there's so many families around the country who can't have children, we could improve options to families that can't have children can adopt -- >> why don't you trust women to make this choice for themselves? >> we can encourage people to support life, of course we can. but why don't you trust women? why doesn't donald trump trust women? to make this choice for themselves. that's what we ought to be doing in public life. living our lives with faith and motivation, with enthusiasm and excitement, convincing each other, dialoguing with each other about important moral issues of the day but on fundamental issues of mortality, let women make their own choice. >> because a society can be judged by how it deals with its most vulnerable. the aged, infirm, disabled. and the unborn. i believe it with all my heart i couldn't be more proud to be standing with a pro-live candidate in donald trump. >> i do have one final question for you both tonight. it has been divisive campaign.
senator kaine, if your ticket wins, what specifically are you going to do to unify the country and reassure the people who voted against you? >> that's a really important one. that may be the $64,000 question. because it has been divisive campaign. again, hillary is running campaign about stronger together. and donald trump, this is not directed at this man, except to the ex department he canned defend donald trump, donald trump has run campaign that's been about one insult after the next. we do have to bring the country together. so, here is what we'll do. hillary clinton was first lady then senator for eight years then secretary of state. i served in the senate. i'm amazed, elaine, as i talk to republican senators how well they regard and respect hillary clinton. she was on the armed services committee, on other committees. she worked across the aisle when she was first lady to get the chip program passed so that eight million low income kids have health insurance in this kid including 150,000 in
indiana. she worked across the aisle after 9/11 to get health benefits for the first responders to bravely went into the towers and the pentagon. she worked to get benefits for tri-care benefits for national guard members including hoosiers and virginians in the national guard. she has track record of working across the aisle to make things happen. you know, elaine, i have the same track record. ivity dove nor of virginia with two republican and in the senate i have good working relationships across the aisle. because i think it's fine to be democrat or republican or independent but after election day, we will work together as hillary clinton as track record of accomplishment across the aisle. that will enable her to do just that when we work with the new congress in january. >> governor, how will you unify the country if you win? >> well, thank you, elaine, thanks for a great discussion. >> absolutely. >> thank you, senator. this is a very challenging time in the life of our nation.
weaken the america's place in the world, the leadership of hillary clinton and barack obama on world stage followed by economy that is truly struggli struggling, stifled by avalanche of more taxes, more regulation, obamacare, the war on coal and the trade deals that have put american workers in the back seed. i think the best way that we can bring people together is through change in washington, d.c. you know, i served in washington, d.c. for 12 years in the congress of the united states. and i served with many republicans and democrats, men and women much goodwill. but potential is there to really change the direction of this country but it's going to take leadership to do it. the american people want to see our nation standing tall one the world stage again. want to see us supporting our military, rebuilding our military, commanding the respect of the world and see the american economy off to the races again. they want to see an american
come back and donald trump's entire career has been about building, it's been about -- going through hardship just like a business person does, finding a way through smarts and ingeneral knew tee to fight forward. when donald trump becomes president of the united states we'll have a stronger america. when you hear him say he wants to make america great again, when we do that, i truly do believe the american people are going to be standing tall. they're going to see that real change can happen after decades of just talking about it. and when that happens, the american people are going to stand tall, stand together and we'll have the kind of unity that's been missing for way too long. >> all right, gentlemen, thank you so much. this concludes the vice presidential debate. my thanks to the candidates, the commission and to you for watching. please tune in this sunday for the second presidential debate of washington university in st. louis. and final debate october 19 at the university of nevada
las vegas. from farmville, virginia, i'm elaine quijano of cbs news, good night. [ applause ] >> ifill: that does wrap up the debate between tim kaine and mike pence, joining me here in our pbs news our studio are mark shields, amy walter of the "cook political report." and "washington post" columnist michael gerson. to all three of you we're going to continue to watch mr. pence, governor pence and senator kaine on the stage as they greet their family. mark shields, this was a debate with a lot of issue questions. what did you think? >> i thought that the republicans in both weeks if there were spins of 20 minutes did well. untort natural ly 90 minute marathons. tim kaine came out captivated. and a little hyper. as it went on he got stronger, more measured and