tv Charlie Rose PBS January 20, 2017 12:00am-1:01am PST
. >> rose: welcome to the program. we take a look ahead this evening to the inauguration of president-elect donald trump and talk to kathleen parker, jeffrey goldberg, jeff green feemed and john meacham. >> i expect to hear notes of bind up the wounds. i want to be president of all the people. but i also expect him to draw, an i think you should, a sharp line, no more begs as usual,-- no more business as usual, you elected me to drain the swamp. you elected me to change the culture of washington. kind of like what obama said but in a much more militant way. and i do think, i expect to hear him say things like that. what i-- what i devoutly hope among other things is that he does not ad lib, this isn't an inaugural address, this isn't a rally.
if he starts veering off saying believe me, i beat 16 republicans and nobody thought i could win, which is in his dna, that would not be a good mark. >> also this eng, a conversation i recorded for cbs news with vice president-elect mike pence. it took place yesterday. >> the president-elect is a man of boundless energy, confidence in the american people, and i know all of us are ready to see him sit behind that desk in the oval office and get to work for the american people. >> rose: and we conclude this evening with former nfl coach bill cowher talking about the conference playoffs this weekend. atlanta versus the packers, and the steelers versus the patriots. >> we all know tom brady, bill belichick, 6-3 championship games, unbelievable run they have had. mike mccarthy and aaron rodgers have won a super bowl together, have been together nine years, ten years. same with mike tomlynn and ben
roethlisberger. so there is a connection with the quarterbacks here that they thrive on, they understand, they have been in these pressure situations before. the own one you have is dan quinn and matt ryanment and you almost feel for matt ryan. because i think the guy, in his nine year career, has been one of those underrated quarterbacks because he has not won the championship or been to that super bowl. and i look at him and the fire in his eye, the leadership that he has. you almost would like to see him get to one and win one just to validate the type of quarterback that he is. >> politics and football whenñie tfnlt funding for charlie rose is provided by the following. >> >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications
from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> tom donald trump will be sworn in as the country's 45th president. the inauguration marks the culmination of the surprising and tumultuous election seasonment an estimated 900,000 people are expected to gather in washington for the event and related activities. more than 60 democratic lawmakers have vowed not to attend the ceremony. that number rose sharply after trump recently tweeted criticism of the civil rights icon georgia congressman john lewis. trump will enter office on friday with less popular support than any new president in modern times. a recent abc news "washington post" pole shows his favorable rating is just 40% with 54% having an unfavourable opinion. joining me now with a look ahead to tomorrow's inauguration from washington, kathleen parker of "the washington post," jeffrey goldberg, editor in chief with the atlantic with. me in new york, author and pbs special correspondent jeff greenfield and joining us later
from los angeles, presidential historian john meacham 6789 i'm pleased to have each of them here on this program. kathleen i begin with you. are you in washington. what is the mood of expectation there? >> it promises to be rainy tomorrow, and if trump is wise he has got about 900,000 umbrellas printed with trump on them or make america great again. everybody is trying to guess what the president-elect is going to say. and especially excited because he claims to have written it himself. so we'll see how that goes. as for the 60 plus democrats who are not going to attend the inauguration, i'm curious to see who fills those seats and most of the action is going to be on the mall, with all the protest groups coming in. i think there are something like 90 plus, including all of those that don't require a permit because there are fewer than 25 to those particular groups. but 200,000 women are expected to march down pennsylvania avenue on saturday.
in protest of the then new president of the united states. >> rose: jeff, what would you add to that? >> i would add that as much as i want to be on this show, i actually want to go out and print up a bunch of make america great again umbrellas because i think i could do some business tomorrow. no, i think look, this is ka tallism, you know. i want to go stand in front of the trump hotel where i can't get in and sell some umbrellas. you know, i was just on-- i was just in the capitol and it's very interesting, actually. i mean i was obviously both covering both obama's inaugurations. and the capitol is inundated with people who have come in for the inauguration. and there is a lot of red hats and a lot of people who have drifen far different-- i talked to some of them. a lot of people who came by car from-- i talked to a couple from florida, i talked to people from kentucky. they're very excited.
to me they were sort of the classic examples of the people who have felt out who are coming to washington in celebration of their sudden inness i guess you would say. but i would add what kathleen said t doesn't feel the same way as it felt certainly eight years ago when a couple million people. and mainly people are talking about the empen table security that is going up all over the city. and the thing that everybody talked about all the time which was weather. >> yeah. >> rose: you have done more and longer pieces, i think, about president obama than most. give me a sense of how he has handled this departure from eight years as our president and his own attitude about trump and the coming of the trump administration. >> well, you know, you look back to the day after trump won. where he will to gather, the president had to gather some inconsolable staff members and say look, guys, this is the way
it works. he won. we're going to hand off power smoothly and you know, the thing about obama is no very hawaiis and no very low lows. the statement that i always have ringing in my head from obama is sort of a very hawaiian thing that i once heard, which is you know, his understanding of the world is that the tide comes in, the tide goases out, the tide comes in and the tide goes out. and he's been very smooth, sort of had an equilibrium. i can't say that's true about everybody on his staff. i was in the white house yesterday and it is surreal, obviously. we were standing in the west weng lobby. and these movie men came with biden's furniture on palates going right out the front door which i thought was a very-- almost knocked dennis mcdonough down, the chief of staff. and there is this kind of surreal feeling. i was walking out of the white house with a colleague and said
it had a kind of a sigh gone 1975 feeling to it. you have expect the helicopter to land on the roof and pick up the obamas and head right now out. and we were joke being what it would have felt like if hillary had been moving in. it obviously would have been a big difference. i think everybody is just kind of captured by the surreal quality of this moment. >> rose: 24 hours from now donald trump will be president. if you were writing his speech, what do you expect him to say and what do you think he ought to say. >> i expect him to say some of what he ought to say. that is every president since jimmy carter has had a grace note about the departing president, often about their defeated rival. i think hard as that may be for trump to do, he would likely do this. >> rose: he's been most gracious about obama. >> exactly. i expect to hear notes of bind up the wounds. i want to be president of all the people. but i also expect him to draw,
and i think you should, a sharp line, no more business as usual. you elected me to drain the swamp. you elected me to change the culture of washington. kind of like what obama said but in a much more militant way. and i do think, i expect to hear him say things like that. what i devoutly hope among other things is that he does not ad lib. you know, this is an inaugural address, this isn't a rally. and if he starts veering off saying believe me, i beat 16 republicans and nobody thought i could win, which is in his dna. >> yeah. >> that would not be a good mark. >> after he talked about all the issues, he talked about add ad libsk all the rallies, it was the same point. >> the thing about inaugural t is usually not a statement of policy. the world was going to particularly be looking at this quite unusual, indeed, unique figure. now that he is actually president. what does he want to tell us. and one last quick thing i want
to find out is who is he talking to. john kennedy in 1961 only talked to the world. there was nothing about domestic policy. barack obama talked a lot about what was going on here with the financial crisis. let's see who trump is address. who does he think it's most important he talk to. >> how many, charlie may i add something. >> i will bring john meacham. >> go ahead, kathleen. >> i just wanted to say one thing. one of the things we watched so carefully with president-elect trump is his tone and his style. and it's not to say that that is more important that the content of what he says, but it is important. and forever, throughout the campaign, this is a man who almost never smiled. and he was always fierce and almost a. and so in order to be the as operational president that we are hoping to see tomorrow, i wonder if he is going to lighten his touch a little bit. and it would be very nice to see the president of the united states smile at america. and that goes to the point about
who is he going to be talking to. it is always this angry fierce, even the picture he had taken of himself writing, allegedly waying his speech, you know, with the pad poised mid air, he was looking fierce again and just the supersilliest eyebrow raised. the sort of i am going to get you attitude. i would love to see that disappear and be replaced with something more congeal-- con again yal as he tries to union fie the country. >> can i add one thing. have i talked to a number of people who said that, you know, the president and the president-elect have been speaking regularly. president obama has made it a point to try to be commune cattive with him and respectful to trump. i wouldn't be surprised if trump has some very nice things to say about president obama. because most of all, he wants to be respected, as we know. and i think that might show itself tomorrow. i wouldn't be surprised. >> i wouldn't be surprised either. he basically said more than once, you know, i like barack
obama. he has been really nice to me. i called him, we have had a number of conversations on the phone. i like him, i hope he likes me. >> they talked a lot. from what i understand, they talked a lot. >> rose: about what, do we know about what? >> well, we-- i have hopes that they're talking about north korea and china and russia and all the rest. and but i think a lot of it is mechanics. i think a lot of it it is how do you actually day to day do the job. >> rose: john meacham, welcome, i want to do this even though this program will air at 11:00. can you tell us anything about the health of president bush 41 in. >> my sense is he remains in the intensive care unit at methodist hospital in houston. the prognosis over the last 24 hours has improved. mrs. bush who also went in with fatigue and coughing has been diagnosed with bronchitis. but she is, i hear, her fiesy
self. i have also happy to report that when former secretary of state james baker went to call on them yesterday, he announced that today he was bringing a ther moss of martinis. so i think that gives us some sense that as ever, the bushes march forward. so thoughts and prayers. 92 and 91. and so whenever pneumonia and 92 are in the same sentence, you don't like it and bronchitis and 91, you don't like it but these are formidable people. >> it should be mentioned that as you have written, john, after the '92 campaign, the elder bush and clinton formed an almost brotherly or familiar ilial bond and what strikes me as we are talking about the tone tomorrow, yeah, it would be nice if the new president said a nice word about his defeated rival. but we should not forget that he also in the middle of the campaign called for her criminal prosecution. and that's part of what makes
this such a tricky transition and movement. and that the nature of the language, in this campaign, and the nature of the lan giej after the election, early transition is still unlike anything i have seen. and i don't think i have ever read anything like. this and your mention of the elder bush reminded me, of john kennedy said in his inaugural, civility is not a sign of weakness. i'm not sure president trump believes that. >> because of tweeteds he always is able to find a way to be engaged in some other controversy as did he this week with john lewis and meryl streep and others, jon meacham. >> an easy practice that i think all of us would like to write and here would-- hear would be for trump to take advantage of the fact that president carter, president bush, president clinton, secretary clinton, and president obama are all there. and again, we could offer a paragraph that said thank you to
these presidents who represented the american story. a farmer from plains, a son of texas, our thoughts are with george herbert walker bush, the son of hawaii, which would be rich in its meaning. and a son of arkansas and this formidable woman who has given her life to public service. there is a way of making himself part, at least symbolically of a great transition. and then go and draw the line that you are talking about. >> i'm not bedding that we're going to hear that eloquent line that mr. meacham just articulated, for some reason. i just don't think it's going to come out that way. >> my pipeline to trump it tower say little clogged so i suspect you are right. >> rose: let me ask this question of all of you. if in fact there was someone within the trump earshot, who is likely to be able to press him to do that? would it be his daughter? would it be his son in law?
>> don't you think it it would be priebus, political professionals who know how these speeches are supposed to go. >> does elise into them, family. the thing about, that makes the line that jon offereds understandably cynical as swrefry said is that he is uniquely also a historical. you almost never hear trump talk about other presidents what tradition he is in. he never quotes even ronald reagan. he said reagan was a great president. it is as if he is a thing unto himself, almost a self-creation which in some ways he is. that is another thing. i would love to see the inaugural sense that he understands that he now takes his place in the part of the 200 year tradition. but it is just something i have never heard from him. >> he has never given us any indication that he thinks in terms of context larger than
himself and the immediate moment. you know, he keeps saying well, i can act presidential if i want to again it is viewed from his perspective, it seems as though it is an act. and he will, maybe he is watching movies or something to see how presidents act or watching old film footage of people that he admires. >> that was ronald reagan quns yeah. i would be a happy citizen if he said something akin to i'm humbled by the fact that i am moving into mr. lincoln's house today. something like that. anything along those lines which would say that he understands the gravity of the moment, the gravity of the job. the gravity of the place. >> we just haven't seen that kind of humility and awe. >> no reports of that from people even though we might not have seen it, no one as all of us here talk to people who talk to trump, don't hear that, there is no one saying look, you will be surprised that he understands the moment. he's talked to president obama.
he's talked to others. he understands that this is a humbling and sobering experience that is he about to engage in. >> charlie, the president he has talked about. >> john first. >> go ahead. >> just quickly. maggie haberman story from the pence dinner last night has them talking about andrew jackson. and we know that steve bannon has talked about a jacksonian moment. it's actually the president that i have heard the most comparisons, obviously. i have some fundamental differences. i think the moment is jacksonian. i think we will be very lucky as a country if trump ends up having ultimately the discipline of andrew jackson. but i think that's possible. >> you are the biographer of andrew jackson. i think won a pulitzer prize for that. but what would he, in fact, if he-- what do you think he's reading too jackson? bannon or-- or trump. >> trump is reading into this that jackson was the first is self-made man to become
president. the first nonvirginia planter or adams to be president. the first six were very much part of the establishment. jackson came to washington charging that the existing system had been corrupt. and that he introduced populist economics in the words of the bank veto message so that he could protect the farmers, the labourerrers and mechanics. and that the people themselves seem to be about jackson. and jackson went over the heads of the republican lower case r establishment that has sprong up in washington since 1800. and that there is this great jacksonian moment. my own view is that i understand how that is an interpretation of it. but andrew jackson himself was a highly disciplined man who understood his own weaknesses, and was able to leverage thossments he kdew how to turn his vices into virtues and we have seen very little evidence of that so far. >> there are different kinds of
disciplines. evidently, i mean donald trump is highly disciplined in terms of executing a plan to win the presidency, maybe not a discipline in terms of resisting tweeting and resisting attacking opponents when it's not in his interest to do. so but in terms of pursuit of the presidency, he was highly disciplined. >> and it's really interesting. i don't know know, jon, whether andrew jackson would have been a tweeter. but in one sense, trump's embrace of social media and his willingness to send these messages that quite deliberately provoke, in one sense is almost jacksonian in the sense that maybe steve bannon means it. i think there is also the point that when people write about foreign policy traditions in america, the jacksonian tradition in foreign policy is pretty suspicious about international relations. i kind of nationalist view that we really aren't that keen about other places. and i think you get a sense of that in the way trump talks about everything from nato to the european union.
so i think. >> with getting too deep in the weeds, i will say that is absolutely true in terms of the popular impression but when andrew jackson actually had ultimate power he for instance rough quite clever diplomacy. i defused a standoff which was causing problems through very careful legislative diplomacy. my question is, and it's my prayer in many ways is that trump has that kind of jacksonian capacity to govern beyond the image. >> out here in the hinterlands of washington d.c., you know, i think you have to take very seriously that donald trump views this as an executive position. he takes seriously this is the executive branch. mi the boss and these are the people i have del gated. and lidle gailt these responsibilities to. his presidency will be run as a business almost. and he will do whatever works best for the ultimate goals of that business as defined by donald trump. i think that is one thing. and you know, as to his
personality and the oval office, once the president is briefed on what he really does have to manage, i think it does change a person. if it doesn't change donald trump at all, then i would be questioning whether he's a human being. i remember once interviewing president george w. bush and he was telling me that, you know, people don't like me because of all the hard, some of the things i have done. i have done all the hard things but the next president is going ing to need it when he knows what i know, he's going to need all of these instruments to manage this rather mind bog ellingly difficult job. of having to protect. >> there's one point about that that i think is crucial. in all the misunderstandings about donald trump, one of them that i was hearing from republicans was look, he will get it, but he doesn't really want to be president. we'll just send him things to sign. it will be like mel brooks in blazing saddles, you know, work,
work, work. it seems that is the most fundamental misunderstanding about this guy. if he is the president and he wants, i don't know what, a replacement for obamacare or a trade policy that is in var yans with every other republican, the idea that he will roll over and sign what ryan sends him has got to be the biggest fantasy of all. >> the other thing charlie just on the briefing point, i remember in george h-w bush's diary, here is a man who had run the cia, been at the uvmentd in. been vice 39 for eight yearing. and when he was briefed on the president 58 chain of command in terms of the nuclear codes, he was shocked. he said it was stark and sobering. he had been vice president for eight years. and he's talking to himself into his diary as he realizes that he is now the ultimate authority in a nuclear age. i can't believe trump hasn't had that briefing. and we still have what we are have. so i think the hope that show or another there is going to be a briefing moment and then is he
going to emerge as franklin roosevelt is a little troubling. >> we have to hold out the idea. >> the bottomline is we have no idea. >> rose: exactly. >> but we have to hold up the pobtd that there is an interior. >> rose:-- that there is an interior here and that he masks-- he masks these feelings of awe and hum ility and being overwhelmed as a normal person would be overwhelmed at this moment. at least i'm hoping that tbl is an internal recognition that he needs other people. he needs to proceed slowly and deliberately on issues such as the use of nuclear weapons. and we haven't seen a great deal of thoughtfulness in his discussion about nuclear related issues. those of course are the-- the only issue ultimately that matters immediately. >> but we do know that he will be talking to people like general mattis and people like
that who thought certificate yusesly about that in a profound way. >> the pentagon, and the pentagon they're all just praying for madison's confirmation tomorrow because they really-- i have talked to a lot of folks over there. and they believe, it's an interesting dynamic. there are a lot of people not only in the pentagon who believe that mattis is the counterweight to trump. that that is the single person who will keep the thing on the rails. >> i hear that too when i'm talking to people within the question also is if somebody was an enthusiast about trump listening to this program, they would say you folks once again are missing the point. he's going to washington to be a fundamentally different kind of president. >> he reflect-- rejects the entire two-party sense of what should be done. and if he's rude and if he's even vulgar and if he kowntd attacks in an uncivil way like most presidents, well, that's why we want him there. and you guys said the same thing about ronald reagan. he was going to blot world up.
i really understand the difference. he was governor for eight years, different guy. you can hear people say this is another case of misunderstanding what it means to really send somebody who is going to change things. >> by leaps. >> yeah. >> from what i hear by talking to mike pence, last night did an hour here with paul ryan, the thing that you hear from them most of all is that they want to show go at regulations. they think that regulations are the thing that have slowed down the economy whether it's environmental regulations, whether it's business regulations, financial regulations, whether it is dodd-frank. >> i think that is true. that has been at the top of the republican agenda for a long time and throughout the eight years of president obama's administration. and the feeling is that much of the incentive for businesses to go elsewhere is that they are so highly and deeply regulated here. and i think if you can listen to strings a little bit, in a wise way that doesn't cause harm, but maybe find ways to tighten things up and also loosen 24e78 at the same time if that makes any sense, then the businesses,
it will be a lot easier to incentivize businesses to come back and bring the jobs and money back to the united states which is the promise that trump has made. but that's really been top of the agenda for a really long time. but i do think one of the things president obama said in his last news conference yesterday, was that it may be that when, of course it's natural that president trump will initiate the policies that he came to town with. but that he also may find that he has to end up being in a similar situation as president obama has found himself. so i am rather curious to see what happens with obama care because once, if the president intend totion make sure every single person has coverage, i would like to know how he intends to do that without keeping much of obamacare in place. in other words, whatever president-elect trump has said, i don't think we can rely entirely on the result being what he has proposed. it's more likely that he's going to do a lot more compromising than people expect.
balls thals' the reality. the reality has its own agenda and he is going to have to make some primeses. i really do brief that. >> i mean this both in terms of domestic and foreign policy but if, in fact there say nixon going to china idea here about donald trump, what would it be? what is the idea that it would encapsulate. >> well, if you really mean a reversal of what we all assumed about them, it would be he said at some point in the campaign he thinks that the rich ought to be paying their fair share of taxes. it dusht happen to be in the plan he submitted but that would be one example. i think if he show decided okay, i'm going to make sure that a large part of my train structure notion takes place in the inner city. i think that's something that ronald reagan could have done and didn't do. the idea that he would meet with african-americans right in the heart of detroit, cleveland, philadelphia, wherever, and say i know you people didn't vote for me.
and he would probably say you people. but i mean to show you that my way of doing things will work. that would be the nixon going to china moment. do i expect 26789 i can't say that i do. but he talked so much about the devastation of the inner cities, it kind of sits with what i think he would like to have people see about him. >> jeff, whether would it be in foreign policy. >> well, there is obviously-- trump, well, russia getting tough on russia but on china trump going to china. and actually-- and actually doing a little bit of brinksmanship and then getting some confessions that are either real concessions or will be sold as real concessions and then having it completely a relationship defined by equanimity and cooperation. but the other one that struck me when you asked the question, i had an arab foreign minister ask me a few weeks ago. he said do you think that donald trump will go to war with iran. and i answered in intuitively,
almost. i said there is a chance that united states will be going to war with iran at some point in the next four years. there is also a chance donald trump will go to iran to open a sizer of hotels and golf courses. i don't know. it's all transactional. it's all based on a kal you can lus that includes respect and dignity and opportunity and capitalist-- capitalist opportunities in particular. not a lot of ideology there. he wants to seem tough but he also believe thases i have a very strong feeling that he believes that diplomacy through trade is the way to go and so i would-- wouldn't be surprised by anything on that front. >> jon. >> what if he ends up striking a fairly gentle immigration deal. goes back to the gang of eight or whichever the gang was, some
form of a path to citizenship, amnesty, declaifers that we love everybody, let's say economic growth numbers go up, a lot of folks with hispanic desent are working. that he ends up being the wall becomes a distant memory and he becomes a true working class hero. >>. >> one of the exercises people have tried to do is what, can anyone imagine anything that would alienate trump's hard-core supporters. and i have a feeling you hit on one. if there is anything that sean hannity said that is a bridge too far or a wall too far or a nonwall too far, story, that would be it. >> that's what the right said about nixon going to china which was the context. >> rose: yeah, bothñi interesting. kathleen, last word to you. what would it be. >> i think the wall will not happen. well, i'm just still kind of stuck on the image of instead of butter instead of bombs, it's golf course instead of bombs. so i think globalization may
really just be one continue yal golf course and only donald trump could pull that off. >> rose: i only believe that this is going to be one incredible year, thank you, jeff, shah, yon, thank you, kathleen. thank you, jeff. >> i'm with vice president-elect. thank you for joining us. >> you bet you, charlie, good to see you. >> rose: feelings of what, anxiety, enthusiasm, what? >> i feel very humbled but very excitedded to get started. the president-elect is a man of beund bns-- boundless energy, confidence in the american people and i know all of us are ready to see him sit behind the desk and get to work for the american people. >> rose: is he an unconventional president-elect and unconventional candidate. do you expect to be an unconventional vice president. >> that will be up to the president to decide what role i &ay. but i hope my experience as a governor, my experience on
capitol hill will be able to make it possible for me to support his efforts to advance the agenda and promises he made to the american people. right now i'm very encouraged about the enthusiasm that the president-elect's agenda has been met with on capitol hill. we've been working not only in the transition assembling our government, but we've been working with leaders in the house, the senate, the rank and file, to put together plans to repeal and replace obamacare. and at the same time to roll back excessive regulations to start discussions of tax reform all focused on keeping our promises, getting this economy rolling again. can't wait to get started. >> two things, number one, the idea is that as you know, you enter this white house and city with the lowest approval ratings of any person who has assumed the presidency. what kind of challenge isñi tha. and at the same time, how important is it to double the
efforts to renight because of that. >> i think the american people are going to see a president inaugurated this friday, who is going to keep the promise he made on election night, to be president of all of the people in this country. i think when they see the energy and the determination that he brings to getting this economy moving again to reviving our cities, to restoring our schools, rebuilding our infrastructure, rebuilding our military, unleashing the boundless energy of the american economy, i think you're going to see tremendous unity across this country. and we're going to see americans come back together. but have i to tell you, the polls weren't always right during the election year, i am sceptical about polls going into an inauguration but the president-elect and our whole team are ready to go to work and really just advance the kind of policies that tomorrow his fraidz will make america great again. >> rose: you've been asked this before, i'm sure. are the tweets, a, necessary, b,
distracting, and does ve to tilt at every windmill that criticizes him. >> you know, i think one of the reason refreshing things about the president-elect is that he speaks his mind. and the american people hear him loud and clear. and sometimes he does that from a podium. sometimes he does that in an interview. >> rose: but does it get in his way of the message on the economy, on foreign policy. >> i don't believe it does. i really don't believe it does. >> rose: you are okay with that. >> i will tell that you some of the treatment that he has gotten and that we, frankly, continue to get, by some in the media and his ability to literally reach tens of millions of people with his view of a particular issue or a particular news, i think is a value to the administration. i expect him to continue to use that. >> rose: at the same time as you say that, you come here to this town with the lowest polls of any president taking office. and the exiting president is
leaving with the highest polls he's had since 200 -9d. >> well, first, i think there's always good wishes for departing presidents and the sacrifices that their families have made. and i would ecoon what the president-elect has said. president obama and the first lady have extended such hospitality. their teams have worked so closesly with our team in the transition. i think the american people can be very proud. >> rose: joe biden was a man of congress. you're a man of congress. you're close to paul ryan. has that relationship healed between paul ryan. >> what i can tell su that speaker ryan and leader mcconel and i talk on a regular bases. but they also talk on a regular bases with the president-elect. i think the american people are going to see a level of collaboration between the oval
office and the congress, the likes of which we haven't seen for some time in this city. and i have also been reaching out, quharlgie w the democrats, in the house and in the senate. sitting down looking for ways we can work together on issues like infrastructure, child care in particular, that i think represent a real bipartisan teunlt. but. >> rose: that issue is pokdzed. owblg ulg are infrastructure and child care, where are the areas that you think, maybe tax reform, you can find common ground with democrats to push an agenda forward. >> i think there is broad bipartisan support for tax reform. the fact that we have a tax system today that traps the profits of american companies overseas, has always enjoyed broad bipartisan support as the president-elect has called for. but also, let me tell you, we're going to repeal and replace obamacare at the same time. we understand-- the democrats are not enthusiastic about repeal but frankly, hi meeghts
even this week, with leading democrats on cap 208 hill talking about our desire for their input on what that replacement program will look like. >> rose: when is that replacement program going to be sembled right now with leaders of congress and policy leaders within our incoming administration. and i would expect them in the early weeks of our rad mrgs, the american people will see that plan and start to-- . >> rose: perhaps next week we will have the repeal presented. >> might not be that quick but it will be quick. you are going to see a tremendous amount of activity, particularly both seerning executive orders, repealing executive orders, rolling back excessive regulations and the president-elect said will announce his choice for the supreme court of the united states bit end of the month that will be part of a very, very busy start. but we're a essentialing that plan. it is going to be a plan that the american people are going to see will allow them to purchase health insurance across state lines, it will be an
ordinarily transition, not treating anxiety for the american people but the promise of lower cost health insurance and improving the lives of the people in this country. >> chelsea manning, his term was-- his term was commuted. do you approve of that position by the feds. >> i do not. private mannings with a trader. compromised, sensitive, intelligence, the united states of america, endangered lives of our troops and those who support our troops down range. >> rose: was that the humanitarian reason to do it, seven years in prison, a couple of suicide attempts lastier? >> well, again, i believe that while i think 2 was a 35 year sentence and initially it was a life sentence. but the compromise of classified information that literally compromised the safety of american troops down range and those who were supporting american proop troops down range, we actually-- drk i read
an accounted this morning, i haven't been briefed, i read an account that some of the information that private manning relieved was on a hard drive of osama bin laden's computer. we have to take the protection of our nation's secreteds seriously. that is why you heard the president-elect speak so strongly about his opposition and concern about leaks coming out about intelligence information. and i think this sends exactly the wrong message about the seriousness with which we protect our nation's secrets and protect those who wear the uniform. >> are you going to be a kind of prime minister for this president. >> the president-elect asked me to engage along with our senior team and our chief of staff and legislative team with members of congress on issues like obamacare, on issues like immigration, building the wall. and i am just here to serve, charlie. i hope my experience as a governor, my 12 years on capitol hill will make it possible for me to get up every day and help members of congress and help people around the country.
i support 9 agenda of our new president. and i throughly do believe we'll revive our country and streken our country at home and abroad. >> rose: all americans i think wish you the best in trying to do that. thank you for coming. >> thank you, charlie. good to see you. >> rose: the nfl playoffs continue on sunday with two highly anticipated conference title matchups. the day kicks off with the nfc championship when the green bay packers take on the falcons at the georgia dome. lead by quarterback a ryan atlanta is league's top scoring offense. the steelers will be seeing the patriots to determine the afc title. new england has dominated pitsberg in foxburg during the bill belichick and tom raidier rohr. joining me is bill cowher, he coached the steelers for 15 seasons where he won two afc championships and the super bowl in 2006. he is currently a sturdio analyst for the nfl today on cbs and we're very pleased to have
him back at the table. welcome. >> goods to be back here. good talking to you this time of year. >> has it been a good season for the nfl? >> i really think it has. i think there is a lot of story lines, certainly the publicity that colin kaepernick brought earlier in the season with the demonstrations and at wareness, i think, that he brought to some of the issues we have in our country. i think we kind of move forward to that. all the story linings unfolded. i think when it was all set and done and the dusk has cleared, i think you have the four best football teams in the national football league playing this weekend even though the cowboys had the best record. >> the best record, youth, set for the future. but look at the four quarterbacks. when you think about aaron rodgers, ben roethlisberger, matt ryan, tom brady, matt ryan arguably may have had the best statistical season of the year.
so when you look. >> all these teams so hot going too the playoffs, pittsburgh, new england, they're won nine straight games. aaron rodgers in green bay eight straight, the falcons six of their last self earn games. so this will be a very intriguing weekend of games. >> rose: if you assess these four quarterbacks, all-star quarterbacks as you said, all winners as you said, but different styles. >> very different. very unique. you look at tom brady, the classic pocket passer. the guy that can pick you apart. the guy that you better not give presnap information to. very comfortable in that pocket and can spread and utilize the fields. >> rose: and read the defense. >> read the defenses and the ball is out so quick. i mean you're not going to get to him because he getses rid of the balm quick leer. the con verse to thatñi aaron rodgers, the master of extended playing. we watch him hold on to the ball nine secondness at a time, sit in the pocket, out of 9 pocket,
back in the pocket, the unbelievable sense of where he is and presence on the field. and right now his accuracy throwing the football amazing. ben roethlisberger, out of the pocket and in a pocket. a guy who really loves to play through improvization,-- more or less, has some of the best weapons around him and we talked about matt ryan, more like a tom brady, athletic enough to get out of the pocket. an amazing amount of weapons and maybe the most balanced offense when you talk about rung and throwing in the playoffs right now. rdz matted ryan is the mvp you think. >> i think. so i think he has had 245 type of year, when you think of the different things he's done, all the different receivers he hit, i think 13 different receivers. the year he has had, the consistency he played with all year long. we look at the body of work, i think deserves it. >> rose: if you were coaching would you rather have an aaron rodgers lead offense or tom
brady lead offense? or take those two. >> i take those two. i think tom brady, this is a master of dissecting a defense, a master of understanding what the weaknesses are, understanding what to look for in matchups. aaron rodgers to me so so much fun to watch. i can take and throw things on a giem. he can throw thingings with timing. but then he can extend a play and has great presence on the field and where he is at. you look at all four of these guys and think could you arguably say that all four of these guys in the fourth quarter, they're at their best. and they all do it in their own unique style. >> rodgers does which amazing me is as you said nine seconds at a time because he can scramble back there, can find the perfect place to hit the ball, throws it hard i'm told because he has the biggest hands of any quarterback in the league. >> yes. and not just-- you've seen the hail maries now. >> exactly. >> it's not always hard. he can get hype from the ball when needed. he's got great touch as well.
>> so does that mean that this game may be decided as the super bowl was last year by the ability of the defense to get to the quarterback? >> i think that will have a lot to do with it particularly in the green bay, atlanta game. i think when you look at this team. >> in that game. >> in that game, particularly for the atlanta falcons. beesly, jr. lead the league in sacs. they are playing at home where they will have a noise advantage on defense. but you look at regard ron rodgers, his offensive line has been very good. he will throw it quick. they like their screen game which can slow down a rush but again, he loves to continue to hold the football it will be imperative, i think, for atlanta not to gich the big plays but to give pressure on him 6789 the other side trvetion the one thing atlanta does is they run the ball so well. they play action. they got the big receiver. o so i think for a green bay packers, the biggest thing for them, they've got to get some takeaway. they have to turn over and get
the ball back into the hands of their offense. but i don't see a lot of punteds in this game between green bay and atlanta. i are doll think it could be the case to give the quarterback who has the ball last will win it it i think you have to be careful how much time you leave on the clock for the other guy. >> have you seen a better games than the packers against the cowboys. >> it really was well done. >> i think the only bet certificate clemson versus alabama. >> yes, you had the sac, i think when he got hit, when rodgers got hit in that last series a lot of people are i thinking where is the ball. it was i a sarks he held on to it t a third down plairks you thought-- i thought he was throwing it away. threw it down there hits the tightened, cook coming across, a beautifulfully touched throw, pinpoint accuracy, sets up for the game winning field goal. mason crossby, 50 qulard field goals in the last minute of that game, was amazing. >> so if you were a coaching today. and let's assume you already had
an all-star quarterback like the four here or one becoming them. >> yeah. >> rose: what would be your next priority. would it be a runningback, an offensive line or defensive line for a defensive safety. >> i would say number one with a quarterback quarterback it starts with the offensive line. because you need to protect him. you need to be able to run or throw the 3w5u8. you can have a great quarterback but if your offensive line doesn't give him time, are you just buying time for that guy to get hurt. >> who has the best offensive line. >> when you look at these four teams, you could say these are the four best offensive lines, the cowboys no doubt, they have a great offensive line. >> rose: who has the best special teams. >> there is a great question. last week the steelers, bosslow kicked six touchdowns-- mason crossby kicks two big field goals for the green bay packers. bryant in atlanta won the best field goal kickers in the game.
and you talk in new england, that guy is good as well so i done know who has the best but i think they're all solid. with all of these teams, there is very few holes you have. these games will be decided partly 9 specialization, i talk about when in situational football t is scoring touchdowns in the red zone, not being held to field goal, situational football is converting third down to extend drives. situational football is the end of a half, the end of a game. not giving a ball back to one of these quarterbacks with too much time on the clock. so situational football to me will determine and define a lot of these game this weekend. >> the game has become so specialized for me as a fan and spectator. i mean there are people now who do nothing but run back punts. >> yes. >> we saw defon hester a week ago almost make a difference for
the seahawks going against his ex-team atlanta. (ifortunately they wiped out a couple of those returns but there is no question. those really types of plays that you go in these games, we are talking about matchups, offense and defense. but you're right. it's that return game that can make a difference in a game like this. joey edeh elman returning a punt, these are guys who can make big plays and have played big plays in the past and they may need them again this week because they have so eagerly matched. >> rose: then there is the question of the four coachesness they're all good. they also have won superbols with their respective quarterbacks, we know tom brady, bill belichick, six straight clip games. unbelievable run that they have had. mike mccarthy and aaron rodgers have won a super bowl together. they've been together for nine years. or ten years, same with mike tomlynn and beth roethlisberger. so there is a question with the quarterbacks here that they thrive on. they understand on. they've been in these pressured
situations before. and like the only one you have is dan quinn and matt ryan. you almost feel for matt ryan because i think the guy in his nine year career has been one of those understate-- underrated quarterbacks because he has not won the championship or been to that super bowl. i look at him, and the fire in his eye, the leadership that he has. you almost would like to see him get to one and win one just to val-- validate the kind of quarterback he is. >> rose: this has been his year. >> but it would be a knock on him if he doesn't make it through the playoffs withness this is the game that defines you. >> rose: the opportunity to prove that that is not true. >> i have been in six championship games, i lost four of them. i went to two super bowls but when you lose this game, i said before, this is the one that hurts the most. you get to the super bowl, you lose the super bowl, they say that must be the hardest one to lose. and it really sntd. because there is the one right here where you are this clogs, you are one game away to be in the super bowl with a chance to
win a championship. and when you lose this game, you have two more weeks to listen to theñr team that just beat you. and you know, you are kind of like, you have to hear football, for two for weeks. and how great this team is.ñi how great there is. all the story lines. you lose the super bowl, it's over. there say finity whetherñ uá this say hard one, are you so close. >> almost like the best game week nend football. >> i think it. is i think championship weekend is the best weekend because i haven't been there six times. you have won t have lost it. the pain hurts. i lost the super bowl t hurt more for me losing a championship game thran it did losing a super bowl. >> more championship game than losing the super bowl. >> yeah, yeah. >> wow. >> because we were that close. we had teams. you get to the super bowl, that saul you can ask for. you get there, you have a chance, it's one game, you get to this game and are you one game away. and you you have to listen for
two more weeks. >> you said an interesting thing. all the joy that football has brought to you. the only reason that you would 's not the money.nship.n a >> no. >> so you would have to see a pathway to winning a championship. >> and it's not even-- i had the best job in football with the steelers for 15 years. when i stepped down at the age of 49, i was just ready. i had committed my whole life. i went right from playing in the national football league to coaching at the age of 28. there was never anything, i didn't go-- there was no period of time in between where i got to enjoy that period of life. i went right from playing to coaching, to being a coordinator, to being a head coach at 34. i just felt like i missed a lot of time and had a chance to spend more time with my kids, with my late wife and then hi a chance to fulfill that little bit of being a part of it with cbs. and i love what i am doing. i love the ability to sit back and give analysis and talk about
the game from the view view point that i have. >> rose: what do you think will happen on saturday and sunday. >> or both on sunday. >> both games are on sunday, the first game is going to be green bay and atlanta. >> and then the steelers. >> pitsberg@new england. green bay@atlanta, honestly, i said it before, i'm not so sure3 if the last quarterback against the ball doesn't win this game. there are some injuries that concern you with the green bay packers particularly jordi nelson has been out, devante adams got hurt last week, how healthy will he be. it seesms like-- the falcons are really healthy. i think for the steelers they are as haley as they have been. but how do you bet against the tom brady and bill belichick at home. they've been there six straight games, this is their sixth straight championship. they are 2 and 1 at home and 1 around 1 on the road.
they are 0 and 2 away. so playing them up in foxboro is a tough task for the pitsz beggar steelers. but have i to till, they are probably playing as good a football as anyone. that will be a game to watch because both these teams nine game winning streak going into this game. >> wait and see. >> yeah. >> thank you, my friend. >> great to see you. >> always the best. >> for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlie rose.korm. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org
boom! hello, i'm julia child. welcome to my house. what fun we're going to have what fun we're going to have baking all kinds of incredible cakes, pies and breads right here in my own kitchen. craig kominiak, executive chef at new york city's renowned ecce panis bakery never got to make focaccia like these when he was a navy cook. today, chef craig will teach us his secrets.