tv Charlie Rose The Week PBS February 17, 2017 11:30pm-12:01am PST
>> welcome to the program. the program is "charlie rose: the week." charlie is away. i'm john hocken berry. just ahead, president trump and the intelligence community. russia flexes its muscle. and director damion shazel creates a hollywood fantasy in "la la land." ♪ to any girl who feels some chance the romance but i'm feeling nothing ♪ is that so? good to know so you agree ♪ what a waste of a lovely night >> we will have those stories and more on what happened and what might happen.
>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications >> rose: and so you began how? >> powerful character. >> rose: is it luck at all, or is it something else? >> it's all internal monologue for him. >> rose: what's the object lesson here. >> going to a town with such purpose. >> rose: tell me the significance of the moment. >> this was the week general michael flynn resigned as national security adviser. president trump met with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. and at the grammy awards, adele took top honors for both song and album of the year. here are the sights and sounds of the past seven days. >> music franz mourning the death of jazz pop musician al jarreau. ♪ we're in this love together >> the u.s., japan, and south korea have requested an urgent
meeting of the u.n. security council tonight on the missile launch. >> general flynn's resignation is not the end of the story. it is merely the beginning. >> when we have government employees that are entrusted with this, and then leak it out, that undermines our national security. >> almost 190,000 people have been ordered to evacuate the areas downstream from the orville dam. >> everybody was running. >> this was adele's night. >> my idol is queen bey. and i adore you. you move my soul every single day, and you have done for nearly 17 years ♪ you drive me crazy >> it's-- it's crazy what we're watching every day. u have a lower approval rating than congress. quiet, quiet, quiet ♪ who let the dogs oat >> at the westminster dog show,
the beagle got got distracted. >> there was a human who stole the show. my goodness! >> we begin this evening in washington. michael flynn set a record this week, not one he necessarily wanted. on monday, the 25th national security adviser was asked to resign after just 24 days on the job. flynn got caught nay lie because transcripts of his phone calls with its russian ambassador had turned up in an ongoing intelligence investigation. that investigation is examining ties between the russian government and president trump's inner circle. meanwhile, there are leaks springing up all over washington from the white house and capitol hill, to the intelligence community itself. here with me to talk about all of this is the pulitzer prize-winning journalist, tim winier. he is the author of definitive historyes of both the c.i.a. and
the f.b.i. tim, welcome to the program. >> hi, john. >> you know all about leaks. leaks are nothing new. but what is new about the nature in the way in which these leaks are both being outraged against by the president, and the way inner agencies seem to be competing with each torg get at something which i think is probably more disturbing at all, which is what is at the bottom of this. >> mr. flynn lied to everyone in the white house, up to and including the president. the president concealed those liees from the vice president. mr. flynn got caught in a lie about what he said or did not say to the russian ambassador, mr. putin's man in moscow. and he was shown the exit. this is the reverse of the normal procedure in washington. we know what the cover-up is. it's lying. what's the crime? this is what the f.b.i. wants to know very, very badly. >> so let's talk about leaks.
donald trump went insane over leaks at the news conference this week. "this whole russia scam you guys are building. russia is fake news. russia is fake news. it's but putt out by the media." first of all, who is leaking on whom and why? is it personal ven debt as, or are the agencies inside the government trying to essentially fight putin, what he's doing to create this chaos, to basically reclaim the government as donald trump just basically denies that anything's going on. >> the president is at war with his own intelligence services. >> clearly. >> he called the c.i.a. "nazis." he puts quotation marks around the word "intelligence" which he tweets about the f.b.i. and the c.i.a. this can't continue, okay, especially without a national security adviser. the job of running the n.s.c. is one of the hardest jobs in washington because you have to
coordinate all of the information that's coming in from all 17 american intelligence services and the state department and the f.b.i. and tell the president what's going on so he's not getting his news from cnn, but he's getting it from every aspect of the american government built to collect, analyze, and deliver intelligence to the president. this is a dangerous situation, john. >> now, in the middle of the campaign, all right, say six months ago, and you were sitting around talking with your friends about the various scenarios of the election. what was the chance you would be having this conversation today? >> a million to one. >> really. >> we've never seen anything like this before, okay. presidents have been accused of misfeasance, malfeasance, and nonfeasance. no president and no administration has ever been suspected of being a tool of a
foreign power, and that is where we're at. and the senior republicans in congress know this. >> nature abhors a vacuum. guess what? so does geopolitics. while america has been focused inward, russia has been stepping out. kim martin is a russian scholar and writes frequently on u.s.-russian relations and is a member of the council on foreign relations. we're thrilled to have her here. welcome. >> thank you, john. >> we talked about the spy and cloak-and-dagger aspect of this but what stiewtd stoouts u.s.-russia relations right now? >> it's so unclear because the trump administration is not really speaking with one voice. but what we do know that each of his cabinet members that has
spoken out on russia seems to be taking a pretty mainstream line, saying, "we need to be tough on russia, we can't let putin take advantage of us" and seems to be accepting that russia tried to interfere with the election campaign. >> you recall under the obama administration, u.s.-russia relations were based mostly on a consensus in europe and the united states that ukraine was the issue, that the war in ukraine, the over-reach in ukraine, and the protection of sentially all of what was of concern to europe and the united states regarding russia. do we have any idea whether that is a priority with the trump administration right now? >> well, we don't know for sure, but we do know, for example, nikki haley, the new u.n. ambassador coming from the united states, has said that sanctions will not be lifted unless, you know, russia gives crimea back to ukraine.
so that's an indication that ukraine is still an important issue. and, you know, it's really bad because the fighting is increasing in ukraine once again, and there are a lot of people who believe that what's going on is that putin is testing the resolve of trump and to see what it takes to get a reaction out of trump. >> well, and there are other tests. we've got spy ship off east coast observing connecticut, apparently not to buy real estate. land-based crews missiles were deployed. >> that's really serious. >> that was a surprise and that was very serious pain destroyer buzzed a ship in the black sea. foreign minister announced russia is keeping crimea, and there was some assertion there that crimea will remain a part of russia forever and will never be a negotiating point in any discussion of ukraine. what do you make of that? >> it's hard to know what to make of all of this. possibly it is putin just trying to test the trump administration to see where they're going. it could also be that the putin regime is feeling a little bit uncertain and they want to
demonstrate areas where they are strong to try to sort of prevent any uncertainty within the united states from leading to some sort of a strong response against putin. i think that putin has reason to feel confused about what's happening, and maybe a desire to sort of remind people about russian strengths. but, you know, the missile deployment is the one that is the most concerning to me, outside of ukraine, because what putin is doing is violating the intermediate nuclear forces accord that was signed back in 1987, and that was really the first arms control agreement that marked the beginning of the end of the cold war. and if they're going back on that now, that's real indication that russia just isn't interested in cooperating with the united states any more. >> do they think that the u.s. is going to do something rasc in the midst of all of this kind of chaos and confusion? >> there has been some concern expressed in the russian press that facing this domestic push-banning, president trump might decide that he needs to do something strong to demonstrate
that he is not weak on russia and, you know, we don't know what that might mean but it wouldn't surprise me if concerns about what the implications of that are might be leading putin to just want to remind people about russian weapons and russian military and what russia can do to upset the situation in ukraine. >> the writer george saunders has done pretty well as an author of short stories infused with a healthy dose of satire. now he's out with an impressive novel. "lincoln in the bardo" say ghost story full of ghosts with stories. it's set in the cemetery with president abraham lincoln is paying the last visit to the grave of his songs, willy. seth myers interviewed the author. >> my wife and i i were in d.c. and we passed the oak hill
cemetery and her cousin said that crypt is where willy lincoln was buried. and she threw off this detail that linkon had reportedly in the newspapers the day gone into the crypt and somehow interacted with the body he was so grief-stricken. and finally, in 2012, i had finished my last book, feeling good, that idea showed up, and i'm like why don't i try that? and the answers were all like, "it's too hard. it's too earnest. it would require too much heart of you." you know, so i thought okay, you know, i'm 58 or whatever i was, i'll at least try it. and then i just kind of gave myself a little window, maybe three months to, to goof around with it and it kind of came alive. >> do you have other ideas like this that have stuck around in your head for 20 years or is this unique? >> it was unique. that's why i didn't trust it. sometimes you hear this thing the idea is you should write and you should think about writing and if you could distinguish 20 two you could save yourself a lot of years.
i thought i really don't work that way, so just leave it alone. >> you are in this interesting situation as a writer because, obviously, you have these historical figures and you have to adhere to the facts of their lives, and the historical accounts of that time. but then you also get to create all of these ghosts and these other characters and there are so many characters in this book. was it more enjoyable to sort of create these characters straight from your imagination, or as a writer, it was exciting to try to put thoughts into existing characters from history? >> it actually came to be like an organic system where the one was supporting the other because ghosts are fun, but they're almost too fun. they're like dream sequences, you know. and tobias wolf told me you're allowed three dream sequences in your career. the idea would be you could have some fun with the ghosts. and about the time the reader was kind of going, "yeah, okay, you're enjoying yourself" then you kind of buttress it with some historical facts. and it also turned out that the
history-- at least in my read of it-- the history stuff was kind essential to the emotional vector because it's a really incredible moment, you know, where he's losing the war. he's kind of a screw-up. people are starting to really turn on him. and his sonidize. and all the hard work is ahead of him. and there was a lot of recriminations. people were saying that this parties that the lincolns had might have contribute to the kid's death. and i thought to get the real emotional heft that first appealed to me all those years another the historical stuff was kind of going to work as a brace against the goofiness of the ghost stuff. >> we may want their money but we don't envy their problems. the showtime series "billions" starts its second season this weekend. the wall street drama features
maggie schiff, wendy rose, the character is the wife of a prosecutor and therapist of the hedge fund manager her husband is trying to indict. >> there's a pretty deep conflict of interest because they're sort of mortal enemies trying to take each other down, and in the first season, you see their sort of tension and their conflict get more and more-- >> it's almost psychopathic in some ways. >> psychopathic, yes. so at the end of the first season, there's a huge sort of "coming to jesus" moment coming to the two of them, but there's also for my character, she realizes that she's been pretty deeply betrayed by both of these men, and she walks out on them. >> do you think she sees them as rivals for her? >> i don't think she does, although, i think she's smart enough to to know that something about who she is to each of them
pours a little gasoline on their fire. and in some waitz she helps to control what that flame is for each of them in the hopes of letting it be something that kind of sharpens themselves or-- as opposed to destroying them. like, she knows that they can destroy each other. >> what happens at the beginning of the new series? you're back. do you go back to the hedge fund? do you go back to your-- >> at the beginning of the second season you see her trying to strike out on her own. i work for myself. so she's really trying to define herself outside of that exphaernlg also trying to define herself outside of that workplace. so she has her own shop. and she's working for herself. and over the course of the season you see her really fr tro excavate her relationship with both of these people. >> you said that-- "wendy has a lot of empathy for the male ego structure. she identifies with it in a lot of ways. i think of her almost being split down the middle in terms
of the male and the female, the ying and the yang." >> i do. i don't think she would be in that job or in that marriage, actually, if she didn't have huge quantities of sort of respect, curiosity, and empathy for who these men are and how much their ego and their will to dominate really, like, consumes them. i think she's, by turns, fascinated. i think she feels tenderly towards them, and sometimes horrified, sometimes titillated. like, she's a very complicated character. >> this coming tuesday on pbs, "american masters" will present maya angelou and "still i rise." it chronicles the life story of poet, author, and activist as told by the people who knew her
best. allison stuart spoke with the filmmakers along with maya angelou's grandson. >> from 2006 to 2010 i spent three or four days a month with her and i didn't know at the time how much information i was gathering, how i was learning her family, how i was learning that president clinton might call, we might do an interview with bishop desmond tutu. people would come by. and so hearing in the headset, i realize this is a documentary. >> how did she feel about this idea of documenting her life? >> she said three things. first she said, "you know i don't need another thing." because she had done seven auto biographical memoirs. she then said, "diknow what i was asking?" and i really didn't, and part of it was to ask her to go over her life near the end of her life when she had already done it. >> that made you laugh, colin. why did that make you laugh? >> that's just classic grandma.
yeah. "let's not do anything halfway." >> of course, not. i have to clean that up. it amazed me, bob, that no one had done a documentary about maya angelou. do you know why that was? and what made you think okay i'm someone who might be able to accomplish this? >> nobody had ever made a film about maya angelou was shocking to me, given the breadth of her story and how important she is in our culture. so i just started to research and kind of re-read the books and get prepared and then i was introduced to rita through a mutual friend. and so i think our combined talents came together beautifully to make this film. it was a five-year project. but it was a phenomenal five years. it was an incredible journey, really. and it was a great privilege, really, to be the ones to tell her story in the television format. >> i want to ask you a very frank question. >> sure. >> i know why i relate to mia
angelo and you as african american women. what related to you as a white male? >> yeah, you know, that's a good question. i remember when i first read "i know why the caged bird sings" and i grew up in michigan in a white community, middle class, very far removed from an african american community. but when i read that book-- and i had read a few other books similar to that-- but that book, especially, because it's written in a poetic style, and it's so honest. it's so unbelievably honest that it really caught me, and it made me in a way re-evaluate my place as a white male, privileged person, et cetera. it was one of those books that really hit me really hard and in a good way. >> colin, as her grandson, watching your grandmother's life and hearing all of the details, some of the gritty details, some of the difficulty-to-hear details, what was that like for you as someone who just knows
her as grandma. >> sure. to see it told from start to finish, that's what gave me the full understanding, the magnitude of who she was, what she traversed to get to who she became, and that it wasn't just one day she woke up and said, "hey, i'm mia angelou." it was cut after cut after cut, success and failure, and joyousness that brought her to that point. >> i rise! i rise! >> and brought her to that point of really the clarity is really what i think is one of her biggest skills is clarity on life and human beings. >> the unlikely musical "la la land" has proved itself. it's nominate forward 14 academy awards, including best original screenplay, best picture, and best director. that director is damien
shazelle. he sat down with the director of that other hit musical "hamilton's" thomas kale. >> this idea of compromise. i was thinking about it a lot as i watched your film. was that something that was in your brain as you moved out of music into film making or were they concurrent. >> they are. both "whiplash" are auto biographical at times films. and fing anything, "whiplash" was my way of trying to hash out my feelings about my time as a drummer, which was really mainly for me high school years actually. "whiplash" the character is eye little older. but for me, mainly, i was a teenager, and i was in a very kind of intense sort of-- >> this was in new jersey. >> yeah, new jersey. >> east coast jazz classic. >> year, it's its own breed. >> yes. >> and wrestling with those kind of feelings, that kind of went into "whiplash." and requested kennedyula not
long after, right after college i moved to l.a. and i had an easy time adapting to l.a. the physicality of the city itself, the way it feels, but also just being in that position of, like the characters in the movie, of, you know, going to a town with such purpose, and then you just find yourself kind of stagnant. >> maybe i'm not good enough. >> yes, you are. >> maybe i'm not. it's like a pipe dream. >> this is the dream. it's conflict and it's compromise. it's very, very exciting. >> and the ideas are so clear in your head. like this movie, for instance, like, this movie was so clear in my head for so long, and it gets very frustrating because you can't just make your thoughts reality. but you wish you could. and it's that idea of trying to make the dreams reality. i think music ralz kind of great at conveying because musicals are about, i think, at their core-- at least musical movies -- about, like, somewhat unhappy characters, really, that that's the irony for such a joyful
genre. characters who are frustrate forward some reason who are kind of projecting an idealized vision of the world on to reality. they are kind of-- they are changing reality by putting their emotions out there, you know. i think that's why so many of the greatest musicals whether-- "a star is born" or "gold diggers" any of the "gold diggers" pictures or "singing in the rain," are actually such good portraits of either artistic compromise or the kind of problems that you go through as an artist or just as a human being. like, these are not-- these movies-- i guess what i'm trying to say is these movies are not the sugary kind of fluff that they sometimes get, i think, incorrectly labeled as. they're actually profoundly truthful movies about the human experience that use their genre
conventions to talk about emotions in a way that, like, as you said, you can't do in another kind of movie. >> now here's a look at your weekend. matt damon is in theaters in the fantasy thriller "the great wall." >> what is it they want? >> to feed. >> the second season of "billions" starts sunday on showtime. >> you can hold this for me. >> you've been served. >> with a lawsuit. >> 127 of them. >> boom! body shot. >> and here's a look at the week ahead. sunday is the day of the professional basketball association's all-star game in new orleans. monday is president's day. saturday is the final day of london fashion week.
wednesday is the day the penn literary award winners are announced. thursday is the first day of the professional golf honda classic. friday is the opening day of carnival in rio de janeiro. saturday is the day journalist bob schieffer celebrates his 80th birthday. that's "charlie rose: the week" for this week. from all of us here, thank you for watching. i'm john hockenberry. we'll see you again next time. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by medi
hockenberry: welcome to the program. i'm john hockenberry sitting in for charlie rose. we begin this evening with russia and talk to investigative journalist and author tim weiner. >> mr. flynn lied to everyone in the white house up to and including the president. the president concealed those lies from the vice president. mr. flynn got caught in a lie about what he said or did not say to the russian ambassador, mr. putin's man in moscow, and he was shown the exit. this is the reverse of the normal procedure in washington. we know the coverup, it's lying. what's the crime? this is what the f.b.i. wants to know very, very badly. >> hockenberry: we continue with russian scholar kim martin. >> possibly it is putin just trying to test the