tv Charlie Rose PBS March 30, 2017 12:00am-1:01am PDT
. >> rose: welcome to the program. this is a day that britain begins its withdrawal from the european union. we talk to john micklethwait, nicholas wapshott, charles kupchan and david rennie. >> when you take brexit and put it what is happening here, it really does put into historical relief the possibility that the last 200 year period of history that we've been living in could be coming to an end. because packs britannica, yeah, there were empires but there was rule of law, theres with a ruled-base international system, political right, civil rights and that kind of morphed over world war ii into what today is packs americana. the brits are stepping out. we now have in the white house someone that is not sure that he buys in in this rules-based international system and that raises very serious questions about if the architects of the
west are both now having indigestion about the world that they built, who is going to defend it. >> rose: also this evening we talk to alyssa mastromonaco, a former key aide to president obama who has written a book called without thought this was a good idea and other questions you should have answers to when you work at the white house. >> i wrote the book because i think that there is a sort of preponderance of memoirs out from the white house, and out of government that are really very serious and dense and don't necessarily give young people, especially young women a path to government or to see themselves in government. >> rose: and we conclude this evening with gary clark, jr., his album is called live north america 2016. >> as i become older and understand really what i think my role is musically, i mean i try and do a lot of things. but i have definitely been in
spots and positions and been looked upon or called upon by other artists to kind of carry on a tradition in blues music, and music rooted in, you know, blues. >> rose: the beginning of britain's disengagement from the european union, alyssa mastromonaco and gary clark, jr. when we continue. funding for charlie rose is provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications
from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we begin this evening with brexit, prime minister theresa may may formally win thursday to begin brit all's withdraw. invoking article 60, she set in motion a process of negotiations. she outlined her vision of britain's departure from the bloc in january indicating the u.k. would seek a hard brexit and leave the eu single market. addressing parliament today, the prime minister described it as an historic moment from which there can be no turning back. >> britain is leaving the european union. we are going to make our own decisions and our own laws. we are going to take control of the things that matter most to us. and we are going to take this teubt to build a stronger, fairer britain, a country that our children and grand children are proud to call home. >> rose: joining me now from
washington david rennie of the economist, here in new york, john michel that waitt of bloomberg, and nicholas wapshott and charles kupchan. i'm pleased to have them on the program. william hague called this the most complex divorce ever in history. >> why is it that? >> well, it's incredibly complex in terms of how you divide the-- you've got two people. you've got unbelievably complicated negotiations dealing with trade. there was a piece today pointing out that 250,000 dogs and cats go across the british channel every year. trying to work out how the pet passports work. that would take several months of negotiation. you've got people, you've got trade, you've got services. you've got all these different bits, so that bit is immensely complicated. the other bit is really kind of horribly simple, very like a divorce with one side, the british saying please be reasonable. i know we've deserted you and
we've run away but please be reasonable and the rest of europe probably saying not. >> what is the difference i hard and soft brexit, charles? >> i think initially the brits thought that they could get a soft brexit which meant that they could get some relief from the eu on immigration, some relief, some relief on some of the issues that made people most uncomfortable such as ever closer union and retain generally sustained access to the single market. and over time, i think, theresa may and her colleagues realized it ain't going to work that way. if they're going to step back and not adhere to the main freedoms that all other eu members adhere to, they are not going to have access to the single market. so the bottomline is that britain exports almost 50% of its goods and services to the eu. when they step out of the world's single market, they're going to take a huge economic hit. they're going to lose political influence because their voices
won't be heard in european counsels. they could threaten the unity of the country because the scotts and the irish, are they going to stick around and just the sheer opportunity costs. >> and might the french stick around if there is a change because of this election? >> that is really in some ways the $6 million question. because europe can and will survive britain's exit. i'm not sure europe could survive la pen because it would so threaten franco german coalitions and the trends in europe pushing them in a populist direction, pushing them to extremes. i think it would strike a blow at the solidarity that keeps britain together. >> rose: how important is angela merkel in this? >> she's very important. because she is after all the leader of europe and also the leader of the free world. and what she says, the tone that she sets is very important. and she will try in the first instance, anyway, to be as accommodating as possible and reasonable as possiblement but as the two years, these are very timed negotiations so the clock is is ticking starting today
with article 50. two years is going to take a great deal of negotiation. a great deal of backward somersaults, ingenuity, late night sittings. all of this. >> rose: what will be the hardest negotiation? >> it will be over exactly how much the tariff is that british goods will have to pay in order to reach-- european markets. >> rose: yeah. >> now of course europeans also sell a lot of goods into britain. and also industries are amazingly complex. we've had 50 years of this, which means what ever you produced in europe you are likely to make it in more than one country, several countries. so to extricate yourself from all of those nitty gite-- gritty of 50 years of involvement, it is just like a divorce. except it is a divorce that comes very late in life. imagine are you in your 60st and you are trying to fire your childhood sweetheart, that is what it will be like. and it's horrible. it's horrible. rdz yes, there is also this, president obama was there referencing the point you made, charles.
and he said don't do this because you have more influence in europe, in the councils of europe, than you will independent. >> i think that's true. i think that's very much the view you get from the american side at the moment. the americans have two big points. economicically they love the idea of london as a base and i'm particularly talking about people at the banks. every big american bank this afternoon, they want to stay in london and just have a passport to operate throughout europe. that was the brilliant thing about london. you also hear this from diplomats, and politicians it was very convenient for america to have britain as a sort of interlock u ter with europe. obama got on well with mrs. merkel. trump hasn't all together got off on a good start with that one. the whole idea of having to restructure the west in the way that america likes to have it, that is very difficult. and it did give britain, britain for all this talk about the special relationship, a big part
of it was the ability to be able to interpret what europeans thought to america in a way the americans understood. >> rose: we're talking about security from two angles. first of all, the sharing of security from intelligence agencies and that kind of thing. is that going to be affected by this? >> we don't know yet. that's part of what will be under discussion 6789 i'm guessing that when it comes to the sharing of intel particularly on terrorism, on what's going on in the middle east, we've made a lot of progress during the last few years, sharing intel across the atlantic and within europe. so i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of that is sustained. i worry more about number one, the degree to which britain's exit from the eu will change the eu in ways that americans may not like. it may be less market oriented it may be less interested in expansion. and so we americans are now having to ask, who is going to replace the brits. is it going to be the nor dikes, is spain going to play that
role. i think there is is the broader question of when you take brexit and put it next to what is happening here, it really does put into historical relief the possibility that the last 200 area period of history that we've been living in could be coming to an end. because packs britannica was in many ways the fore runner, yeah, there were empires but there was rule of law, there was a rules-based international system, political rights, civil rights and that kind of morphed over world war ii into what today is packs americana. the brits are stepping out. we now have in the white house someone who is not sure that he buys in to this rules-based international system. and that raises very serious questions about if the architect of the west are both now having indigestion about the world that they built, who is going to defend it. >> against that, i do think there is the point that we could look back on this period and there could be an essay question which people set for children in 20 years time. and it will be the classic one
will be angela merkel, did she use all the power she had in europe's interest or not. and she has been the dominant figure in europe now for close to ten years. >> she has an election as well. >> she has managed to keep europe together. that has been a great achievement. but that does not necessarily-- she hasn't necessarily managed to make it more coheesive. there is a possibility. charles is saying, if la pen wins in france, if she calls a referendum on the euro, not on the european union, she would stand a good chance of winning that. and then suddenly the whl european project is in danger. and the big question will be did angela merkel who has, i agree, she has been the most impressive politician for a a very long time. did she use that. did she really, really. >> in europe or compared to. >> over the past ten years she's been a-- you could argue she's been in terms of the state craft of keeping a difficult thing
together, she's probably been better than anybody else. her ability to rule politics, her ability to wipe out opposition of any sort, both within the european union and ry hard to beat.ry, those are >> rose: david, i want to bring you in, pick up what you have heard so far and tell me what agree with. >> i think if the americans are wonder yg this is directly going to affect them, i think one really fascinating point is you are going to have this you wily divorce argument involving 28 countries, britain and the other 27, but i think donald trump could be a kind of shadow 29th figure at the table. it's really interesting, i think, the dynamic that theresa may, she came over to washington here quickly. let's try and the point that maybe britain could show that it has other options, it can sign a free trade deal rather quickly with donald trump, going against what barack obama said last area. that britain would have to wait at the back of the queue. i talked to a eur mean-- european ambassador who was saying he was really struck on how republicans on capitol hill think there is a quick free
trade to be done where donald trump shows he is 24ubg about brexit, it is a rather good idea t fits his worldview. but here is the thing, it is really hard for donald trump to do a free trade deal with britain, partly because britain won't know the terms of its own trade with europe, but also the politics could very quickly get very, very tricky for someone like theresa may. because donald trump is really, really unpopular across a lot of europe. so if britain is seen as a kind of tro january horse, as part of a kind of trumpian flattist movement breaking up the european union and britain wants to ally itself with america in that, there things get really, really hard. so i think done all trump is going to, whether he likes or not, will be a player in this argument. >> he has made a smart point there. there is no doubt that one of the reasons the europeans have always weren't invited in the first place to join the foundation of the european community back in the kohlhepp and steel community in 1947/8 was that they suspected that
britain was a sort of tro january horse. that churchill and roosevelt had got on too well together. that the brits always were making excuses. they also talk about anglo saxan economics t is a different thing. the europeans practice a different sort of economics. and they suspect, therefore, all british primes of being too cozy with american presidents, some have good evidence, tony blair was jumping too bed with mr. clinton and mr. bush in short order and nobody seemed to mind. so there is a certain amount of good ris an-- riddance. >> there is a little bit of anti-americanism in the reaction to britain. >> that will be very important when it comes to negotiation. because that sense of just get out of here, we could do without you anyway. we didn't really want you to be a member of our club anyway, that is quite a strong sentiments of a lot of people in europe within on the continent. >> yes. >> what happens if there is no agreement after two years. >> if there is no agreement after two years, they're gone. and they just play by wto rules and it would be very ugly.
because tariffs with go up. a lot of bankers and other companies are going to ship out and move to paris and frank further and other places, come here to new york. and it may be that that is where we end up. because it's going to be, as you were saying, one hell of a tough negotiation. >> and charlie, you asked about security. there is another big issue here which is, i don't want to overexaggerate britain's kind of importance, the most important country in the world but america over the years has invested a lot in things like peace in northern ireland. if you crash out of the european union there are scenarios where a hardboarder kind of has to reappear between northern ireland and ireland. scottland, there are economic reasons why scotland may choose to stay in the united kingdom still but the politics have got more tempting for scotland to say well, maybe we want to stay in europe. america for among other things parks its nuclear sub marine in bases in scotland it is the only place in the u.k. you can park a nuclear sub marine. sct land goes away, suddenly there is a real crisis about
what to do with britain's nuclear deterrent and that is quite important to america. so there are extraordinary risks that cascade out from a hard departure without a deal. >> rose: david martin argued in the financial times that brexiters must lose if brexit is to succeed. you can unpack that for me? >> yeah. i think that the brexiteers have basically told the british public that they can have full sovereignty and full control over everything from not having to listen to the european code of justice, total control over immigration and that they will not get any poorer. that they can have all the prosperity that they currently have from trading with a single market, the economists can argue that has always been untrue. so they are going to have to lose because the will have to make some concessions if they want-- if they don't want to have voted to become poorer, if they do want to continue trading profitably and to be a dynamic successful modern western country, than they are going to
have to make some concessions which currently they're di denying in terms of being in some ways subject to european rules. imagine an american pharmaceutical company that makes advanced medicines in the u.k. it happens quait a lot at the moment. we crash out. does that american pharmaceutical company want to be subject to british rules and then completely separate set of european rules t doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for an american company to have a faction in the u.k. under those terms. to make this work, the brexiteers are going to have to bring some of-- break some of their promises to their own supporters. >> very quickly, we are, most of us all, and this is not a typical commentary. most economists would also say this is is a situation where britain can only-- it is a question of how much britain loses and the other question is whether europe loses a bit or not, because the europeans will lose by not having a financial center. we are on that side of the argument. there is another group of people, perhaps not as big but certainly big in terms of
voters, who would say look, this is britain's great opportunity to become singapore. and it's not, you know there are two groups of people who back brexit. one is a group who didn't like foreignsers, anti-immigrant, there is another group who quite genuinely and think this is the chance to get free of the bureaucracy. at least one part of their argument which i will-- i don't agree with it but i think is very clear is they would say look at the european union it is in trouble it is is only going to get worse. i think the counterfactual of what happens to europe, as charles was saying, that is incredibly important. if the european union becomes a success or continues roughly the same, maybe the british will look stu i had approximate. but if on the other hand the european union gets ever more-- doesn't deal with these problems then maybe the british will look slightly clever after moving away. >> i think at the end of the day, like our election here, that referendum was not about a careful analysis of the fact. what is going to happen to the
economy. what is going to happen to our influence. it was really about emotion and identity. and i think that's where cameron went wrong. he went up there with pie charts and said here, growth, here are exports, stay in the other side were taig the turks are coming. we got to reclaim traditional britain. a lot like what was going on here. and so it is in many respect this kind of disaffected, the folks who feel they are on the losing end of globalization, rising up in the united states, rising up in britain and trashing the political establishment. now they have to live with it. >> rose: thank you, thank you, david. >> thank you. >> rose: alyssa mastromonaco is here, president of global communications at a & e networks. prior to this she was president obama director of campaign operations and later his deputy chief of staff. she was one. president's longest serving advisors. she was often referred to as one of the most important people in government that you haven't heard of. she wrote a mem other, called who thought this was a good idea
and other questions you should have answers to when you work at the white house. and it has just reached number ten on "the new york times" best seller list. i am pleased to have alyssa mastromonaco back at this table. really, tell me why you wrote the book. >> so i wrote the book because i think that there is a sort of preponderance of memoirs out from the white house and out of government that are really very serious, and dense and don't necessarily give young people especially young women a path to government or to see themselves in government. deana perino did a book but other than that there aren't that many. so i wanted to write something that made the government and the white house seem accessible. >> rose: and i place that you could go and work and feel good about. >> yes, and still just be a normal person. you don't have to be wonder woman. >> rose: well, you were wonder woman, weren't you. >> i mean i was, but i had my share of problems. >> rose: how did you meet barack obama? >> i met barack obama in
december of 2004, robert gibbs had worked for him on his senate race. hi just lost drk dsh i worked on the kerry campaign which had just lost. and robert gibbs sent me an aol instant message that said how are you? do you need work? and i said i did. and so that was-- that was, i met with then barack obama. >> rose: senator obama. >> two weeks later. >> rose: and so what job did you get? >> so i was sort of an advisor, and i did his schedule and his political work before i went over eventually to become the political director of the political action committee. >> rose: polit director of the political action committee. >> uh-huh. >> rose: how would you define the relationship between the two of you? ness we are sort of like big brother not much younger sister. that's what he would say. >> rose: that is what he would say. >> i'm not that much younger. >> rose: he also took an interest in your dating life, did he? >> he did. i think that he saw how hard we all worked. and that we were there sort of
supporting him. so he felt really responsible for making sure we had pernlal lives. so he did try to set me up on a date or two. >> rose: do you think he's going to end up spending a lot of time the rest of his life as a writer. >> it seems to be, it seemed to me the thing that he deeply enjoyed doing. that he really invested his time, that he really sort of got into. >> rose: what he also had speech writers. >> he did. >> rose: so how did that work out. >> so i think that there are so many things to be brian in the -- written in the white house and on a campaign. campaign are you doing three events a day, in the white house at least one event a day. so john favreau especially and code keenan who were his chiefs of speech writing, they had such a sort of mind peld with him that they could talk with him and know where he wanted to go, and then he would take it, and it would be a back and forth and just a really good partnership. >> rose: there were some that he wrote himself like during the speech on religion during the campaign. >> yes, the race speech. and yeah, there were some that were just so personal to him,
his remarks at newtown at the memorial at newtown after the shooting, things like that, he just felt he had to do himself. >> rose: he said that was the worse day of his presidency. >> yep, i would say we would all say that was the worst day that you ever could have been in government. >> rose: because so many young innocent people died. >> i mean, it was a tragedy beyond description. >> rose: this country still has not changed on gun control, thras? >> no. it hasn't. you have to wonder why. >> rose: why? >> i think that the republicans are afraid to stand up to the nra. and i think that a lot of what the democrat pros posed, especially right after newtown was pretty basic. you know, background checks, closing the loophole in the n show, you know, the gun show loophole. seems pretty simple. but i don't know. they just still seem really resistant to it. >> rose: give us the sense of being inside the white house. when did you go to work.
>> oh, i would-- so in the very beginning i have to be quite honest with you. in the beginning you probably get there around 6:30, 6:45 and have your first meaning with 7:30 with rahm emmanuel who was chief of staff. i will say though that by the end of you would sort of screech into your parking spot on west executive by like 7:25 and would you have your cup of coffee waiting and you just go in. >> rose: and then a meeting early in the morning. >> meeghts early in the morning. you would meet with my direct reports, you know, to check in every day, and then we would have a series of meetings in the afternoon, sometimes we would be traveling which always made the meeting schedule mordense on the days you weren't. >> rose: what did you learn about how to make an institution run? uh-huh. >> about how to make people believe in the mission? >> i think that you know, at this very core of our group we just deeply believed in barack obama and were aligned behind why he wanted to be president, which was to really help the
american people. and so when we got there, i think that he was very true to what he said. and so it made it easy to get everybody in line to sort of achieve, to pass 45e89 care, to passing health care is a great example. but we knew that that was important. every single one of us in our own way, like i had nothing to do-- i didn't really have anything to do with policy but i still supported the passing of health care in my own way with my direct reports. and so yeah, i think that we were just not competitive. and we were really supportive of each other and it made it easy. >> rose: what was it about the deaths of your cat that the president was concerned about? >> so my beloved cat who was a cat inna rescue had been with me since i started working with barack obama. i got him after hurricane katrina. when he passed away, he had been with us through everything, he went to chicago, he was part of the family. and when it-- when schremy got
sick, he was sick for quite awhile and got better. when he finally passed away, anita decker who took my job after i left, i told her cuz her dog had just passed away. so i was so upset and i was in the parking lot. and at vice we just had a journalist. >> vice media, we had a journalist who had been did he tained and i thought that the number on the phone was the lawyer calling about that. but it was really the air force one operator saying that they missed me up in the sky and that the president wanted to talk to me. and having been with the president when he had to make calls like this, you always feel bad for him. are you like really, you have to call someone about their cat that died. but i said i appreciate it. this is really awkward for you. like you can go. and he had just renamed mount mckinley denali. and he told me that they had seen the spirit of schremy float up over denali. it sounds so sill silly and it was the first time how much it means for him to take five
minutes to do something like that, because it meant a lot. >> rose: what do you think you know about him that the world doesn't know or hasn't seen, perhaps. >> maybe they are seeing it a little bit more now. but i think that there was this real idea that he was quite aloof and that he was like sort of not very he motive. and i know him to be really funny, deeply-- the most intellectually curious person, like people would think oh, the president must know everything, the president doesn't think there is anything more to learn. i would say he is the most intellectually curious person i will ever know. >> rose: and how does he express that. >> he wants to know about everything. there is nothing to, i could be reading you know, he could be talking sports with one person. i could be reading one of my books that's not so far from the book that i wrote, a book basically for young women but i was reading it at the age of 38. and he would say no, tell me about it. tell me what they learned. oh, maybe sashia and malia would like that book. basically anything, science. he loved to learn about science. you know dan pfeiffer, dan pfeiffer and the president came
up with the white house science fair and he always said don't rush me through those science fair. this is one of my favorite days of the year. and we have all the kids teach him how they made all of their different projects. it was really special. >> rose: do you think when he walked in the room he thought he was the smartest man in the room? >> no. i don't think so. i think most-- i think that shall-- no, because i had to think about it i wanted to really think about like meetings in my head. i think sometimes of course he was. but i don't think that he walked in to meetings with chancellor merkel and was like i'm smarter than you. so i think that he had a good sense of his position. >> rose: what did you not do that you wish you had done? >> i wish that i had in the moment i wish i had appreciated it more. it is so busy. yes, it's so busy that every day, it's like-- . >> rose: you don't think at the moment how this is atlas, this is wonderful. >> sometimes you do. sometimes you do. sometimes you are moving so fast, there were times when i
met the pope. >> rose: how was that. >> that was incredible. he was, how many people get an audience with the pope. i guess some people. but no, but the last day it was like the last day when i left the white house, it was like the movie playing in my head. i turned up led zeplin really loudly and drove out the gates on to pennsylvania avenue which you only really get to did once in a while. and they let me drive out. and i thought to myself, like this is, i will never be back here in the same way ever again. and probably never, i don't know that i would ever work in the white house ever begun it was a special-- . >> rose: but you have subsequently said you could imagine yourself getting back in the game and supporting a presidential candidate. >> i could. i think that, you know, when secretary clinton was running, i was really hopeful that she would win. and i think that, you know, for some of us, myself especially, i was glad to just sort of back up into the shadows and say, you know, and take pie bow and say it has been a great run. but with a new administration, i think that if someone thought f someone was going to run in
2020, i think that if i could really be of help to them, it would be hard for me to say no. >> rose: so what do you think of the trump administration. >> you know, one of the things that president obama always felt was you know there are moments to be partisan and there are moments when you have to be the public servant and not the politician. and so for me, we were so, we were so-- the bush administration was so helpful to us. they couldn't have been more generous. and they prepared us so well for what was coming during our period of transician that when i saw the president come out and say that we would sport donald trump, this is going to be a peaceful transition. i said okay, i'm in. i am going to do it. and the thing that hurts me so much is that i feel deeply like they have not looked at what we did and evaluated it with clear eyes and thought oh, maybe this is actually pretty good and we should keep it or maybe we'll
tweak this a bit it seems like they are just sceet shooting everything we did for sport. >> rose: like today, environmental standards. >> right. i mean how could shall-- . >> rose: it must make you-- break your heart. >> it does. >> rose: things that you worked eight years to build something, and somebody comes in and say we're going to tear this down. >> just for the sake of tearing ere is always a winner, there always a loser, you get that. but you know, the thing that i thought was just pretty grotesque for lack of a better word was that they wanted to have that vote to repeal the aca on the day d-- on the seven year an verse of the president signing it. that's not-- that's whole other level to me of sort of political theater. >> rose: you guys worked really hard. that was a single legislative achievement. >> uh-huh. >> rose: of eight years in government. >> yup. and millions of people, tens of millions of people were helped by it. and to vote on something when you can't explain how people who
have health care will be taken care of it just seemed so rushed and haphazard. which is hard because we, if nothing, people can criticize us anyway they want to. but we were thoughtful. >> rose: to understand what this book is about, it is a chronicle of your experiences. but it also is a sense of communication to young people. >> yes. and the thing that i wanted to sort of also show is that i think that public service and politics get so conflated sometimes. you actually can go be a public servant. you don't have to be superpartisan. you can serve your country. it doesn't even matter who the president is, you know, in so many cases. so i wanted the, i wanted young people but especially women to know that it was an available option and one that they should consider. >> rose: who thought this was a good idea, alyssa mastromonaco who had an inside view of government, of the white house, of presidential po ter-- power
and of all the stakes that come to you when you occupy pennsylvania avenue, interesting book. number ten now on "the new york times" best seller list. congratulations. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: gary clark, jr. is here, the grammy award-winning blues guitarist has been dubbed the chosen one. his fans include guitar greats like buddy guy, keith richards and eric clapton who calls clark incredibly inspiring. he goes on to say gary does what i would like to do an stage without any effort at all. clark new album live recordings were released earlier this month it is called live north america 2016. here is gary clark, jr. performing the healing right here in our studio. >> i got something in motion.
>> so the idea of the chosen, where did that come from? i am not quite sure. i think that first popped up in a rolling stone piece or something like that. i saw it. >> better get it together. >> they also call you a musical ambassador. that show are you an ambassador for the blues for sure. >> that's something that i am starting to embrace a little bit more, i would say. become older and understand really what i think my role is musically. i try and do a lot of things but i've definitely been in spotteds and positions and been looked upon or called upon by other artists to kind of carry on a
tradition in blues music and music rooted in, you know, blues. and it's been a little bit overwhelming. and sometimes i try not to pay too much attention to it. i try not to get myself too wrapped up or put too much pressure. i mean i put enough pressure on myself. i want to be great. i want to be considered a great musician. but you know, i want to work on myself and understand my strengths and my weaknesses without necessarily hearing everything people say about you. >> yes, but what was it about the blues. >> you know, i got hooked on blues by a friend of mine named eve monsay. have i known her since i was eight years old. and she had a black fender stratcaster and twin amp and she lived down the street from me and i could hear her playing. it was her and two other girls in 4er band, a-base player and a
drummer. and so i used to just be drawn to the music. i would go over there and ended up getting a guitar, she wanted to go to a blues jam for her 15th birthday. and so she signed us up. we ended up getting up there and we were just-- . >> rose: never looked back. >> never looked back. i mean the older musicians on the scene were really welcoming and embraced us. and were really willing to share their knowledge of the blues. because you know, it's considered a music that's some what being forgotten in pop culture. and so they were really excited when these two teenagers came up an had a bunch of questions. >> rose: and so much of its rich history is from right here in america. >> exactly. exactly. once i started to really dive in, i became familiar with being
from austin, texas, stevie ray vaughn, jimmy vaughn, and then going back into the history of where those guys grew up listening to t bone walker and lightning hopkins, you know,. >> rose: didn't you turn down a scholarship at the university of texas in order to go on the road with jimmie vaughn. >> yeah, i was offered a scholarship tou t for music. and i just, i debailted it. i had long talks with my parents and grandparents were telling me. and i just felt for me i knew that i wanted to be a musician and be involved in it show but i kind of wanted to find my own way for better or for worse. i'm stubborn. i don't like people telling me what to do i don't take
instruction very well. i'm kind of a terrible student. i kind of feel like my gut feeling is i know where to go. i'm confident in that. >> rose: but how did you know you wanted to be a musician. >> i saw michael jackson on stage. i was five years old in denver. and. >> rose: were you five. >> i was five years old, my parents took me to this show and it was a complete surprise and i just fell in love with the energy. and-- . >> rose: and the dance and the music. >> the dance and the music and we had music growing up in the house. and i was always the kid right next to the speaker. trying to figure it out. so i just knew pretty much from day one. i remember having a-- they would make you sign up sheets when you were a kid what you are interested in, what is your favorite color, what would wanted to do when you grow up. and i would always say something that was-- some what safe, i guess. like i want to be a lawyer or,
you know, cuz i didn't want to be looked at as odd. >> rose: but you knew it was. >> i knew from day one, i got to get up on a stage. don't stop. ♪ don't stop baby all night long. ♪ don't stop to the break of dawn. ♪ you know you coming home. >> rose: but it wasn't easy for you. you had to struggle like everybody else. >> yeah. i made a choice though, you know, like i didn't do the school thing. and you know, i moved out of my parent's house. didn't have much. and i was just like i'm going to survive as a musician. so i played four shall five, six, seven nights a week, four
hours a night playing for tips in smokey blues bars knowing that you know, i wanted to be alongside people that i am fortunate enough to be alongside of. >> rose: knowing that you were learning and getting better. >> i wanted that experience. and from all the stories and the legends of blue guys and all that, you got to have your 10,000 hours. >> rose: oh yeah. >> and you got to really put in the time and work and figure out what it means to be on stage and perform live and be a part of a unit, you know. everybody can get up and play guitar solos all day long. but you are a part of something. you got to understand how that, withouts and understand how-- you got to build confidence. you got to understand what works, what doesn't, and become more comfortable, you know. if i hadn't put in those hours and some of these gigs and these opportunities would still come up, i don't know if i would be able to own it.
and feel comfortable. but i feel like i worked, you know, for this. yeah, i think it was really important it was a struggle. i got my lights shut off. >> rose: when you were in your apartment, would you come in, and say you vntd paid your bill no more water. >> be in the middle of recording something, and-- . >> rose: my impression is that you are more of a live guy than a studio musician. >> yeah. >> rose: the title of this is gary clark, jr. live. >> that is. >> rose: north america 2016. >> that is live and in person. some of my favorite records james brown live at the apollo. >> rose: oh yeah, me too. >> marvin gaye, live in london, stevie ray vaughn. >> rose: you can feel the audience, as much as the performance. >> right.
and i feel like that's really a place for me on stage. i feel comfortable. >> rose: but touring is where the money is today too. >> touring is it. touring is it. we stay touring. >> but that's true. it really has come to that, hasn't it? >> yeah. it's an interesting record business. and that's part of why i'm so depend ent on playing live, why have i been so focused on that. you never know, i feel like people always want to come and see and hear live music. >> rose: i'm sure they do. how many gigs do you do a year? >> you know, that's a good question. i think maybe we are doing maybe, not so much this year, i was getting to a point where i was, you know, couldn't remember what day it was or where i was.
i need to go home for a second. >> rose: yeah. it's terrible when you say hello sacramento and in fact are you in san francisco. >> you know what, there has been a couple of times where i just hadn't said anything because i wasn't sure. >> rose: i think some of the best have done that too. i heard about some names we will not mention. >> good night y'all. >> rose: good night y'all, been great to be here in your lovely city. >> exactly. >> rose: tell 3450e what is in this album here. start with the healing. tell me about the song. >> the healing is a song that originally was on a record of-- i was just sitting in the studio and kind of a little bit stuck about what i wanted to write about. and then i just it kind of clicked. everything that i was listening to that i recorded previously, i said well, it really was a
weight off of me to express myself musically. i was just thinking back to when i was a kid and when i used to run around. and whatever i could have gotten into i feel like is music kind of put me in the right direction. and also is, as an artist like curtis mayfield and you know, even artists like tu pack, just hearing stories it is kind of like i grew up a religious person but i have realized that music has been more of a guide to me than anything else i guess in my life. and. >> music has been your religion in part. >> yeah. and can bring me up and make me think and self-reflect. >> rose: are you happiest when are you on stage performing. >> i'm happiest, yeah, on stage performing. i'm just happy if there is music playing. if there is music somewhere.
>> it show touches all of it, all the bells. >> if i'm in the playing it, i love to go out in the town on the road and check out live bands and come back home. >> rose: just to see what is happening. >> i need that in my life. >> rose: yeah. >> i need it. >> well, pie baby's gone. won't be back no more. >> my baby's gone. ♪ won't be back no more. ♪ she left me this morning. ♪ like she did the night before.
♪. >> where do you live? >> i live down in texas outside of austin, texas. >> outside of austin. >> yes, sir. >> great place. >> it is a great place. i moved around a little bit. i lived in new york for a couple of years. it started to get cold and scared me away. >> like today. >> winy. >> yeah. exactly. i was out in california for a little bit. >> yeah, a lot-- i love being home. >> where do you think you're going? where is the journey leading? what is the next step? is it just to get better? >> is it to explore new experiences? >> yeah, i mean-- . >> rose: is it to be, to open people's ears, to a variety of music? or all of the above. >> all of it. i think you expressed that better than i could have.
>> rose: maybe i should be writing songs. >> maybe, there you go, there you go. >> rose: certainly would be better for me to write them than to sing them, can i tell you that. >> well, how about if we collaborate. >> rose: i will write and you sing. >> there we go. >> rose: now what is the hat about. >> the hat, i will tell you this. my dad bought me a hat a long time ago. i loved seeing michael jackson wearing a hat. i remember him singing who's loving you as a kid, jackson five and he had that purple hat. i thought it was the coolest thing ever with his afro underneath. but from that to stevie ray vaughn to hendricks to-- hendrix t is kind of like just a thing. >> rose: kind of like it belonged. >> i never put it on. hi one, my dad bought me one and i just thought it wasn't right. and i put it on one day.
and it took me awhile. i didn't feel comfortable. and then i just stepped out and got a couple of compliments. wow, man, that's a good look on you. you said you know what, i think it is is. >> rose: and then it didn't feel comfortable not to have it. >> yeah, so i sleep in mine. >> rose: no, you don't. let me remind everybody, gary clark, jr. live north america 2016. ♪ with the bottle. ♪ take your shot. ♪ waiting on tomorrow. ♪ trying to fill up what's hollow. ♪ you're going to know my name. ♪ well, you're going to know my name. ♪ bright lights big city.
yeah snoatd. ♪ for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us krn line at pbs.org and charlie rose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pb
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