tv PBS News Hour PBS July 12, 2017 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT
captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening. i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight: fallout from donald trump jr.'s meeting with a russian government lawyer rocks the white house. a look at whether there were legal violations involved, and the effects of it all on the administration. then: >> my loyalty is to the constitution, to the rule of law, and to the mission of the f.b.i. >> woodruff: president trump's pick to head the f.b.i., christopher wray, faces senate questioning, much of it around the firing of former director james comey. and, a massive piece of antarctica finally breaks off, releasing one of the largest icebergs in recorded history, and dramatically changing the landscape of the peninsula. and, we continue our series, "inside putin's russia," with a
trip to the country's southern border, where isis propaganda has taken hold. >> there's been a local insurgency here in the capital of dagestan, makhachkala, for years, targeting both local authorities and symbols of the national government. >> woodruff: all that and more, on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160
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thank you. >> woodruff: president trump is heading back to europe tonight, this time to france for its independence, or bastille day, celebrations. but, he leaves behind a swirl over his son's efforts to get damaging information about hillary clinton, provided by the russian government. john yang begins our coverage. >> reporter: across capitol hill, the big question was what the bombshell revelations in donald trump jr.'s emails do to the russia investigation. at his weekly news conference, house speaker paul ryan did his best to avoid commenting directly. >> we have a special counsel that's doing an investigation over at the justice department. we have an investigation here in the house. we have an investigation in the senate. i think it's very important that these professionals in these committees do their jobs, so that we can get to the bottom of this. >> reporter: mike conaway, the texas republican leading the house investigation, didn't say
much, either. >> reporter: are you concerned about the meetings that he took with the russian lawyer? >> we're going to pursue every lead that makes sense to pursue and every clue that needs to be pursued. >> reporter: does this need to be pursued? >> we're going to pursue every lead that makes sense pursue. >> reporter: in an interview to be broadcast tomorrow on the christian broadcast network, president trump said russian president vladimir putin wouldn't have wanted want to help him in the first place. >> if hillary had won, our military would be decimated. our energy would be much more expensive. that's what putin doesn't like about me. and that's why i say why would he want me. >> reporter: last night, donald trump jr. offered his first public defense, to fox news channel's sean hannity. >> in retrospect, i probably would have done things a little differently. again, this was before russia mania. this was before they were building it up in the press. for me, this was opposition research. >> reporter: this morning, mr. trump gave his eldest son a rave review: "he was open, transparent and innocent. this is the greatest witch hunt
in political history." at his confirmation hearing to be f.b.i. director, christopher wray was pressed on that point. he had a different view of the investigations-- including special counsel robert mueller's probe-- than the man who nominated him. >> i'm asking you as the future f.b.i. director: do you consider this endeavor a witch hunt? >> i do not consider director mueller to be on a witch hunt. >> reporter: meanwhile, the president's legal team tried to distance their client from his namesake. >> the president was not aware of the meeting, did not participate in the meeting, did not attend the meeting and was only made aware of the emails-- actually reading the emails, seeing the emails, was yesterday when they were released. for mr. trump, the russia story has become a burden he cannot escape, no matter how hard the tries. every time he appears to be moving in a different direction, another disclosure puts it right back front and center. today, russian foreign minister sergei lavrov seemed to sympathize. >> ( translated ): today i
turned on the tv again, and all the western channels are discussing only this. it is amazing how serious people can make a mountain when there might not even be a mole hill. >> reporter: there's sure to be more discussion next week, when the senate judiciary committee wants former trump campaign chairman paul manafort to testify about his role. for the pbs newshour, i'm john yang. >> woodruff: later, the president told reuters that he only learned of donald trump jr.'s meeting with a russian lawyer a few days ago. but, he said, "i think many people would have held that meeting." he also said that he asked russian president putin last week if he had meddled in the u.s. election, and putin said, twice: "absolutely not." we will explore the legal implications of all this, after the news summary. in the day's other news, federal reserve chair janet yellen affirmed that short-term interest rates are likely to rise again in the coming months. but she also left the door open to changing those plans.
yellen told a congressional hearing that a recent slowdown in inflation might make the central bank recalculate. >> monetary policy is not on a pre-set course. we're watching it very closely, and stand ready to adjust our policy if it appears that the inflation undershoot will be persistent. >> woodruff: separately, yellen said the fed could begin unloading its massive bond holdings this year. it bought government bonds during and after the recession to lower long-term interest rates, and boost economic activity. wall street took heart from yellen's talk of going slow on rate hikes. the dow jones industrial average gained 123 points to close at 21,532-- a new record. the nasdaq rose nearly 68 points, and the s&p 500 added 17. one of brazil's former presidents, luiz inacio lula da silva, was convicted today in a
sweeping corruption probe. a judge sentenced him to 9.5 years in prison, but for now he remains free, pending his appeal. silva served as president from 2003 to 2010, and is still widely admired in brazil. in saudi arabia today, u.s. secretary of state rex tillerson held talks, but made no apparent progress in ending a boycott of another persian gulf nation, qatar. tillerson met with king salman, and later the saudi crown prince, in the city of jiddah. later, he flew to kuwait, and returns to qatar tomorrow. the saudis and other arab states have accused qatar of financing terrorism. in turkey, president recep tayyip erdogan has rejected any talk of lifting a state of emergency. he imposed it last july after rogue soldiers tried to overthrow the government, killing more than 240 people. erdogan visited graves of the
victims yesterday, and he told international investors today that the government is still rooting out disloyal elements. >> ( translated ): what are we supposed to do with all this happening? they say lift the state of emergency. this won't happen. i had an interview with an international media organization. they asked if the state of emergency will finish. it will finish when this business is completely out of the way. >> woodruff: erdogan's opponents say he has used emergency rule to quash dissent. there is word that chinese political dissident and nobel peace laureate liu xiaobo is now in critical condition. a hospital in shenyang reported today he is suffering multiple organ failure. liu has late-stage liver cancer. he was released from prison on medical leave last month. back in this country, the royal bank of scotland has agreed on a settlement with u.s. regulators, and will pay $5.5 billion. it involves claims that the bank
sold billions of dollars of toxic, mortgage-backed securities before the 2008 financial meltdown. and, president trump lost his nominee today to lead the federal deposit insurance corporation. james clinger cited "family- related obligations" that prompted him to leave government service earlier this year. he said they have "grown more challenging" in the interim. still to come on the newshour: the legal questions surrounding donald trump jr.'s meeting with a russian lawyer. president trump's pick for f.b.i. director faces the senate. an iceberg the size of delaware breaks off from antarctica and, much more. >> woodruff: now, back to the controversies swirling around donald trump jr. and the president's top campaign aides. the email exchange published by donald trump jr. on tuesday
reignited a legal debate about whether members of the trump campaign engaged in unlawful activity. we get two perspectives, from bob bauer; he served as white house counsel to president obama, from 2009 to 2011. he is now a lawyer in private practice in washington. and, jed shugerman. he's a professor at fordham university law school. gentlemen, we thank you both for being with us. bob bauer, to you first, we know the president's son was told that the russian government had incriminating information on hillary clinton that i wanted to share with him. did he break a law by pursuing that? >> in my view, we have some evidence, we don't have all the evidence. i would suspect the congressional investigating committee and the special council will continue to dig into questions raised by the facts disclosed by the "new york times" and by donald trump, jr. himself, but this is highly
suggestive of a potential violation of the law on two counts. number one, it demonstrates the companincampaign as a whole hadt to solicit support from a foreign national source, in this case, russia. second, the meeting could constitute illegal solicitation of a foreign national under campaign finance law. both have broad significance and on the specific issue of liability, a more concrete significance. >> woodruff: you're tying it to campaign finance. >> i'm talking about a statute on the books for many years congress tightened in 2002 that prohibits receiving and soliciting contributions from a foreign national or providing the foreign national with substantial assistance in trying to influence a u.s. election. >> woodruff: jed shugerman, listening to this, and i know you have been looking at the laws with regard to this today,
does this sound like something that fits under that legal definition? >> yeah, i have been looking at this quite a bit and reading bob's work. bob, generally, he's a terrific expert on this. i think i disagree with him and how far to apply campaign finance law. i'm very sympathetic to his perspective here. however, i think we're getting into some dangerous territory with applying federal election law too broadly at this stage. news keeps breaking every day, so i'm just saying, knowing what we know now, to argue this meeting itself is a violation of the campaign finance law raise as couple of questions. first of all, it raises the danger of applying and criminalizing contacts between anyone in a campaign with a foreign national. let me give you a hypothetical. imagine if there was a web site that published what purported to be the birth certificate of president obama from kenya, and an obama staffer went and met with kenyon nationals to find
out about the veracity of that document. under this interpretation, that would still be a thing of value, but would we criminalize the obama campaign for checking and, similarly, would we say the romney campaign, you can't do opposition research by investigating. >> woodruff: let me -- go ahead. >> woodruff: let me stop you on that point. what about that, bob bauer, that there's a danger in making this cover, any kind of information shared by a campaign by a foreign entity? >> that's not the case at all here. we're not talking about a casual conversation with some information that the campaign is looking for it sort of acquires by talking to a foreign national. we're talking about an operational link between a foreign government and a campaign, one in which the foreign government is stating its intention to provide ongoing support, dispatches one of its emissaries if we're to understand the facts as so far presented in the news,
dispatches one of its emissaries from moscow to washington, d.c. and, on top of all that, not only does the campaign indicate it's anxious for the help, but, as you recall, donald trump, jr. even snughts one of his e-mails that he would like to discuss timing, that if the information is as good as advertised, he would like to see it released later in the summer. the company finance laws distinguish between the kind of specie that i think professor shugerman is legitimately concerned about than this kind of information. >> woodruff: judge shugerman, it is the case that the email to donald trump, jr. said the russian government wants to help your campaign. >> all of this is indicative or suggestive of what we might find out later. i think if we carefully read the e-mails, i think it's hard to make the leap that this is like a coordination. there are indications there. i understand where bob bauer is coming from.
i think we have to be careful, though, because if you read the email from a little bit of perspective of how can this be applied in the future and can we have line drawing here, it's hard to see where this email doesn't immediate lead to some effects of applying this to any kind of contact between governments. >> woodruff: let me asking both of you, and to you jed shugerman first, the word collusion, colluding has been thrown around a lot in the last few weeks about whether the trump campaign was colluding with russian officials, is there some legal issue there? is that an issue? >> word collusion is more political than legal. there is no statute against collusion. i think the word we might turn to in the law is conspiracy. this is where we're headed. there is a lot of other information coming out day by day that points to this conspiracy. we may have conspiracy. i think we're getting closer to a violation of 1986 law of computer hacking because i
think, if you look at the timing, there are too many coincidences about what the trump campaign was doing before or after this june 3 email about president trump himself. my point here is i think we need to be careful in analyzing each step. >> woodruff: right. i think there is evidence that's pointing towards crimes, but i think we need to be careful when we make interpretations of these statutes. >> woodruff: we certainly want to be careful here and we know we're speculating but we do think it's important to ask these questions. bob bauer, quickly on the conspiracy question. >> i think there is a basis here, and i continue disagree with professor shugerman, this is going to be an ongoing investigation. this is not the only evidence that will be taken into account and certainly, if, in fact, there is apparently a violation of the campaign finance laws and the evidence is beginning to point in that direction, then, yes, the prosecutors could certainly develop a conspiracy charge or aiding and abetting charge based on that. if i could just add one more point. this is not a statute that is
subject to the same free speech considerations professor shugerman outlines that apply in the domestic u.s. context. today, for example, it was clear from the testimony of f.b.i. director nominee chris ray who was asked about this that, in his view, this sort of communication between the russian government and campaign is a national security matter, and he said any meeting like that should not have been taken unless the campaign hat consulted with what he called its legal advisors. so i think it was clear from the f.b.i. director's remarks here this is a national security issue, the free speech considerations are different and the implications are legal. >> woodruff: all right, gentlemen, we'll have to leave it there. bob bauer, jed shugerman, we thank you both. >> thank you. very much. >> woodruff: as we noted earlier, the issue of russian meddling figured into today's confirmation hearing for christopher wray, the nominee to
be the next f.b.i. director. but there was another focus as well: whether wray would withstand the political pressures of the day. lisa desjardins takes it from there. >> reporter: he's worked 25 years as both as a top federal a prosecutor and as defense attorney. >> do you affirm that the testimony you're about to give before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you, god? >> i do. >> reporter: but christopher wray faced few questions about his experience, and, instead, a long list of them about his independence as a potential f.b.i. chief. >> if the president asked you to do something unlawful or unethical, what do you say? >> first, i would try to talk him out of it, and if that failed, i would resign. >> reporter: it was one of many references to the last f.b.i. director, james comey, fired by president trump. comey claimed the president asked him to let go of
investigating former aide michael flynn, and demanded a loyalty oath. the white house disputes all of that. but wray, as the f.b.i. nominee, was asked about his allegiance. >> my loyalty is to the constitution, to the rule of law, and to the mission of the f.b.i. and no one asked me for any kind of loyalty oath at any point during this process, and i sure as heck didn't offer one. >> reporter: and about his conviction. >> i believe to my core that there's only one right way to do this job, and that is with strict independence. by the book. playing it straight. faithful to the constitution. >> reporter: wray spoke about his 2004 pledge to leave the justice department over the bush administration's use of warrantless wiretaps, which he believed were illegal. he was following the lead of comey-- then, the acting deputy attorney general-- and robert mueller, who was then the f.b.i. director, and the man who is now the man in charge of the special russia investigation.
>> i worked closely with director mueller in my past government service. i view him as the consummate straight-shooter, and somebody i have enormous respect for. and i'd be pleased to do what i can to support him in his mission. >> reporter: wray also worked on counterterrorism at the justice department, and was asked today about torture. >> my view is that torture is wrong. it's unacceptable, it's illegal and i think it's ineffective. >> reporter: and, about protecting muslim americans from backlash. >> i think the f.b.i. director and the f.b.i. needs to be the f.b.i. and the f.b.i. director for all americans, including muslim americans. and my experience in terrorism investigations has been that some of the best leads we ever got were from members of that community. >> reporter: he stressed the need to fight terrorism, including cyber terrorism, and protect classified information. in the end, senators of both parties seemed assured. >> thank you very much, mr. wray. and i'm looking around, i'm
feeling that you've had a good hearing today. and best of luck to you, sir. >> thank you, senator, that means a lot. >> reporter: if confirmed, wray would be eighth permanent director of the f.b.i. for the pbs newshour, i'm lisa desjardins. >> woodruff: stay with us. coming up on the newshour: why so many russians from the country's southern region are joining isis. a view from both sides of the political aisle, on the russian controversy plaguing the trump administration. and from dirt to shirt-- bringing the business of cotton back to the u.s. but first, researchers have been watching for months, waiting for a huge iceberg to break away from an ice shelf in antarctica. that break was confirmed today. and just to give you a sense of the size: the volume of the iceberg is said to be twice as large as lake erie.
miles o'brien has been watching all this and digging into the larger questions about the ice shelf. it's part of our weekly reporting about "the leading edge" of science. >> reporter: this fast-growing rift in the antarctica ice just created one of the largest icebergs ever recorded, about the size of delaware, weighing more than 1 trillion tons. the event had been anticipated for months. finally, some time between monday and today, the larsen ice shelf became 12% smaller. >> we've known about this quite a while, right? >> we've certainly known about the bulk of this rift for a while. >> reporter: kelly brunt is a glaciologist at the university of maryland and goddard space flight center. she used a wall of monitors to show me the growing rift fueled in part by rising air and sea
temperatures. if the glaciers in west antarctica all dropped into the water, global sea level would rise by more than 15 feet. brunt showed me a composite from several satellites. this is how the glacier ice flows. >> from the center of the continent to the edges much like syrup on the center of your pancake flowing toward the edges. there are areas where it's moving pretty cloal and areas where it's moving very quickly, and those quick places are generally in our areas of ice shelves. >> reporter: so when we think about ice, we think about something static. it's not static, is it? >> not at all. it's highly dynamic. you can see from this image it looks, to me, a lot like a river system. >> reporter: ice shelves are connected to the glaciers that sit on land, but they are also floating like ice cubes in a glass of water. >> if you had a drink with ice cubes in it, as those ice cubes
melt, they don't add to the height of the water in the glass. so when ice shelves break down and collapse, they do not have a direct impact on mean sea level rise, yet they have an indirect effect. the ice shelves buttress the flow of the ice upstream, the ice flowing into the system. when you lose the buttressing force you allow the upstream glaciers to flow faster so that's similar to putting more ice cubes into the glass and letting those melt. >> reporter: ice falls off the edge of glaciers all the time, it's part of a natural process called caving. kelly brunt says it is important to judge the size of the piece that breaks off relative to the size of the glacier behind it. she says your fingernails offer a handy model. >> if you break your fingernail inside the white part of your fingernail you probably don't think much of it. if you break it below the white part you put a band-aid on it, think about it and keep an eye
on it. if you lose your whole fingernail, i don't know what happens, it's pretty catastrophic. this represents losing the whole fingernail. >> reporter: like so many features in antarctica, the larsen ice shelf is named for a famous 19th century explorer and it isties appearing section by section, identified by letters. larsen a disintegrated in 1995, and in 2002 a series of satellite images captured the end of larsen b in dramatic fashion over the course of six weeks. the piece that broke off was the size of rhode island. >> losing this much ice, losing ice that represents roughly the state of rhode island in a month and a half far exceeded anybody's expectations of what could happen and the time scale it could happen in. >> reporter: so we have to re-think things. this is a wakeup call. >> this is absolutely a wakeup call. >> reporter: scientists tracked the ice using a half
dozen u.s. and european satellites including land sat which gathered these images. but some of their best data came from a satellite called ice sat. launched in 2003 and ceased operation in 2009. it measured the glaciers using laser beams. >> this is quite a few years of ice data merged together to get a good sense in meters per year how our ice sheets are changing. our ice sheets are changing when they are in contact with both the warming atmosphere and warming ocean, so basically along the frin of the continent. >> when it failed, nay is a tracked the ice using lasers on low-flying aircraft. the ice bridge program is n.a.s.a.'s largest air campaign ever but still couldn't match the eye above the sky. it goes without saying you would view the satellites' capability to look at this as essential.
>> we're talking about a calving of an iceberg the size of a state. you would need a satellite to see it all in one shot. its function of scale and repeatability to go back andñi look at the area again with the satellite that makes these the perfect tools for looking at the large-scale change we're seeing in this region. >>w3 reporter: that's precisely what kelly brunt and her colleagues will be doing now, using satellite data, data from the scant weather stations on the surface there, and additionally with bouys in the water itself trying to make definitive statements, definitive in quotes because it's science, whether this calving event is linked to climate change. judy? >> woodruff: is there a definitive answer the that at this point? looks like you're saying no. >> reporter: not just yet. larsen b, the previous big
calving event, scientists say there is a strong pile of evidence indicating it is linked to climate change. larsen a, they have practically no data at all. one of these things, as kelly brunt put it, this is where it gets exciting for scientists. they will try to determine if it's climate change that actually caused this to happen and also looking at the stability of the ice shelf behind it. does the flow increase? what about the the glacier behind the ice shelf itself? looking at all that will give them clues about what this will mean ultimately for sea level rise. >> speaking of that, do they know the effect this is going to have on sea levels in the area and around the world. >> reporter: that's the big question. larsen c, even though called a shelf, is kind of misleading. it was already in the water. like an ice cube in a glass of water, it had already done its displacement and made its impact on sea level rise.
if it had fallen off, scientists estimate it would have increased sea level across the world by 3 millimeters. that the gives you the idea of the size of this. now the situation here is to see whether the increased rate, if there's an increased rate in the flow of that ice shelf into the water, what impact that might have on sea level rise in coming years. but, again, judy, this is long-term science, and we'll just have to watch it for years to come. >> woodruff: finally, miles, what happens to this gigantic piece of ice now that it's broken off? >> reporter: it will probably break up over time. fortunately, it's not going to be in the way of any shipping channel. so it shouldn't be a hazard to navigation, but that's a big part of what will happen along with the other research. they will track to see how the iceberg breaks up, but it will be a big iceberg to start and over time get smaller. >> woodruff: all right, our iceberg man, miles o'brien, thank you very much.
>> reporter: you'ret judy. is >> woodruff: now, we continue our series inside putin's russia, and travel to the country's southernmost border. the republic of dagestan is in the north caucasus near the caspian sea. over the last two decades, a brutal separatist insurgency has fought the russian state, and violence has spilled over from neighboring chechnya, where russia fought two wars. americans may know dagestan: the boston marathon bombers were from there. but now, a new problem. by one estimate, as many as 5,000 dagestanis are fighting for isis. again, in partnership with the pulitzer center on crisis reporting, special correspondent nick schifrin and producer zach fannin examine why.
>> ( translated ): it is no accident the youth are tempted to go to syria, because today there is a revival of islam. >> reporter: kazim nurmagometov is 62 years old, and his son fought for isis. he was never tempted to go to syria, but he and his wife rashida understand why their son marat was. >> ( translated ): the islamic call i was talking about, the one in every muslim's soul, is hidden, deep down. it's like a light in someone's heart. >> reporter: nurmagometov lives deep in the caucasus mountains where nearly-dried-up rivers meander through 1,000-foot high cliffs, and beyond ancient rock formations, isolated dirt roads connect secluded villages. one of those villages is karata. official population is 4,000, but residents say it's half that size. this area is nearly 100% muslim. before friday prayers, men greet each other in the small town center. there are few young people, in part because this small village sent as many as two dozen to
isis, al qaeda, and the wars in syria and iraq. that's her? that's your daughter. >> da. >> reporter: amina kondakova is a muslim convert. she shows me photos from a happier time. she says they grew up traditional and comfortable. and then, two years ago, her daughter miryam and her son ali askhat told her they were going on vacation. instead, they traveled with miriam's husband to mosul, iraq, to join isis. >> ( translated ): they lied to me about going there. i was so disappointed. and then, i became afraid about what can happen to them. >> reporter: she says this town is pious, but wasn't religious enough for her daughter. did she feel judged by people in this society? >> ( translated ): yeah, they gave her looks. they didn't like how she was dressing. they wanted her to dress like everyone else. she wanted to dress the way it's written for a muslim woman to dress. >> reporter: kondakova believes that judgement drove her daughter away. she reluctantly admits that in mosul, her daughter is happy raising her first grandson.
>> ( translated ): she said, "mom, i feel like i was reborn here. i regret all those years i spent in dagestan. don't you want to come here too? i want to live with you, want you to see my boy growing up." >> reporter: nurmagometov gets to see his grandson. when his son marat left for syria, he abandoned a pregnant wife. alexey is now 3 years old. they look at photos of marat as a boy, and a young marat clowning around with his older brother, shamil. when you look at these, does it make you wish that your sons could all be here with you together? >> ( translated ): i am a realist. i know there's no return. life isn't a book where you can tear out the pages if you didn't like what you wrote, and write new ones. >> reporter: the dagestanis who fought for isis continue a decades-old legacy here of radicalism and militancy. there's been a local insurgency here in the capital of dagestan, makhachkala, for years, targeting both local authorities and symbols of the national government. their most prominent attacks targeted civilians in larger
cities. in moscow in 2010, militants allied with al qaeda blew up the subway. in 2013 in volgograd, they blew up a bus station, and then a commuter bus, as seen on russian media. >> ( translated ): there was no social or physical protection. every day there were bombings, terror attacks, that cost people's lives. >> reporter: habib magomedov is a former police lieutenant colonel and member of dagestan's anti-terrorism committee. he says conservative islam has combined with high rates of unemployment and poverty, to inspire radicalization. >> ( translated ): it's the living conditions, absence of possibilities, absence of social mobility, which creates waves of anger and distress. there has to be some sort of history that sets the person on a certain track, where you only need to light a match for the fire to start. >> reporter: that match is often a brutal security crackdown. in january 2013, russian special
forces flooded into dagestani villages. locals say security services have practiced colleive punishment against entire families, torture, even extrajudicial executions. magomedov admits they went too far, but he tries to explain their motivation. >> ( translated ): if keeping people safe requires limiting rights and freedoms of certain individuals, it's probably worth it. my brother died in 1998 when someone threw a grenade in his house. you know, the freedom of one man ends where the freedom of another starts. >> reporter: today, the violence has diminished. but the people whose freedoms are most often restricted are still religious muslims. this mosque preaches an austere and aggressive form of islam. it also rails against government policy, and that makes it a police target. after prayers, police set up a checkpoint. officers must meet a monthly quota of arrests, leading to what many call indiscriminate detentions, including of journalists trying to tell the mosque's story. we were filming that scene from
across the street, just standing on the sidewalk for only about 90 seconds, when police came up and arrested us. they threw us into their car, they drove us to the precinct, they refused to tell us why they were arresting us. and when we were in the station, we saw dozens of men who had been in that mosque before, also arrested. that is simply how people here act. 33-year-old mogamet mogametov is the mosque's spokesman. >> ( translated ): as you saw yourself, they arrest people not because they're suspicious, but only because they came to a mosque. >> reporter: do you think that the tactics the police use can help to radicalize young people here? >> ( translated ): of course. this is the thing that provokes people. since literally everyone can be arrested, not on the basis of actual cause, but something totally subjective, then of course that irritates. >> reporter: and that helped lead so many to isis. the group exploits the abuse. russian language propaganda says russia oppresses muslims, and
presents syria and iraq as a pious paradise fit for families. and as isis recruited dagestanis, russian security services showed some the door, exporting extremism by facilitating their travel to syria. >> ( translated ): it was the right thing to do. since the moment these people left dagestan for syria, local terrorism dropped dramatically. if they had stayed, there would have been terror attacks, there would have been human casualties. >> reporter: who helped you leave? who facilitated your departure? one of those who was pushed is this 27-year-old dagestani, who now lives in turkey. we agreed to hide his face and alter his voice. >> ( translated ): people who were on the federal wanted list could somehow get a passport and leave the country. some security officers said to them, "we'll either kill you, or you can leave the country." the way i was helped was that every time i went to my local government office, i was taken by the police and interrogated. but when i went to get a passport, nobody stopped me. >> reporter: and after the dagestanis left, russia made sure they never came back. >> ( translated ): they simply
said that if i come back, they'll do bad things to me. so i won't ever go back. >> reporter: many dagestanis who fought for isis have died in syria, and they're celebrated by isis propaganda. but some managed to escape, often to the port city of odesssa, ukraine. former isis fighter marat agreed to talk to us if we didn't show his face. >> ( translated ): the majority went to syria with the notion of jihad, that assad was repressing muslims and we needed to help them. >> reporter: we've actually already met marat. he's the son of kazim nurmagometov. kazim is often in odessa to visit. >> ( translated ): we consider our family lucky. he is back alive and healthy, and realized that where he ended up, wasn't what he thought it was. >> reporter: when his son left for syria, kazim didn't sit back and let him die. he traveled to the outskirts of aleppo and saw the destruction. he helped convince marat he made a mistake. marat finally left, when he thought about his own son. >> ( translated ): i was thinking about him constantly,
hoping that i could get out of there and see my child. i was always thinking about what a big mistake i made. thank god i was able to leave there alive, because practically everyone i knew there, no one is left alive. they all died there. >> reporter: marat will never return here, to dagestan. and that's what inspired kazim to speak on camera for the first time. >> ( translated ): there are thousands of isis fighters in syria who want to leave. i feel it. maybe my story will be a lesson. how to do it. what obstacles to expect. i feel some sort of responsibility to use my experience to help get others out. >> reporter: people like kazim's neighbor, amina. she fears her daughter is dead. she hasn't heard from her in four months. what would you say to that mother in america, who's listening to your story? >> ( translated ): don't let your children go anywhere. look after them. look after their every step, but don't let them leave you. ever. >> reporter: but their children have let this place. and most will never return.
for the pbs newshour, i'm nick schifrin in karata, dagestan. >> woodruff: our week-long series, "inside putin's russia," continues tomorrow with a look at what happens to those who dare to stand up to the kremlin. >> woodruff: we return now to the top story of the day. donald trump jr.'s decision to release emails showing he met with a russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign in hopes of gaining damaging information about hillary clinton. for a closer look at the political fallout of all this, we turn to karine jean-pierre, a senior advisor to moveon.org and a veteran of the obama administration. and, matt schlapp, the chairman of the american conservative union and the former deputy political director in the administration of george w.bush.
and it's great to have you both back on the program. thank you for being here. karine, to you first, how damaging is all this information about the donald trump, jr. meeting? >> i think it's pretty damaging. the e-mails were actually delivered, released by don, jr. saying he and paul solman and jared kushner met with a foreign agent in the sole, sole purpose of trying to get information given by a foreign adversary, intelligence from a foreign adversary, and i think that's pretty damaging. i think for a long time republicans have been moving that goalpost, right, they have been saying, oh, there's no meeting. well, if there's no meeting, there's no proof of collusion. nobody on the campaign have any russian connections. now we're at a point where, yep, there's a meeting, looks like there potentially could have been collusion, now what do republicans do. >> woodruff: matt, how do you see the damage? >> what i have said continually is that my guess is, in the
presidential campaign, they will have e-mails or phone conversations or meetings with people who are trying to be helpful to the campaign. so this doesn't come as a big shock to me. i think the big mistake they've made is whenever you're involved in these investigations, and i was in a white house that had a special counsel, you search your e-mails, go through your phone logs, look through your information and you fully comply and are completely as transparent as you can be and the reason we know this is because jared kushner and paul solman updated the disclosure to the government and much more fulsome in the information they gave, which is the right thing they could do, but it would have been better if it were sooner. it's the drip drip drip that gives the press another opportunity to write another store and another store, but the facts prove no criminality. >> woodruff: no criminality? we have had a discussion about this with the other two lawyers. >> we don't know.
looks like textbook collusion, campaign finance violation, for me as someone who worked on campaigns and in the white house -- >> you were never under investigation. >> no investigation, eight years obama, no investigation. (laughter) but i think this is the problem, if they want true transparency, the trump administration, why don't they put it out there? >> that's why donald trump, jr. did this, because it's the right thing to do. the only reason is because you have "the washington post" and the "new york times" doing the work and putting out the information in piecemeal. >> or maybe they're being leaked inside the white house or the apparatus. >> that's donald trump's problem. >> can we go to the fec violation, because i saw this in a conversation. >> woodruff: the federal elections commission. >> right, they said the idea you could prove criminality unless cash went directly to a
candidate is almost impossible to prove, so i think the fec violations are absurd. the idea this is treason, the idea this is taking up arms against your country is absurd. then you have the question of collusion which isn't a legal term and the potential collusion, and i don't know where you go on that. the bottom line, did anybody on team trump do anything illegal with the putin government that somehow subverted the elections? that's a pretty big charge but an easy charge to eventually answer. i think we all want to get the answer and close the books on this. the american people are fair, and let's move on. >> woodruff: is the standard of legality, karine, going to be the only standard that matters here. >> i think that meters as -- i think that matters as well, but we can't forget the russians actually attacked our country and tried to undermine our democracy. that actually still is happening. a "the washington post" recent reporting showed russianser are currently trying to hack into our infrastructure. so this is not why i'm
understanding why republicans aren't just standing up and saying something and keeping the trump administration and associates accountable. >> i agree with this. i think what russia tried to do in this most election and previous elections is wrong. i think it's wrong what the d.n.c. was doing with the government of ukraine to try to help hillary clinton. >> not the same. well, but -- not the same. matt, that's not the same. >> woodruff: if you shouldn't deal with a foreign national, you shouldn't deal with a foreign national. >> they're a foreign adversary. >> woodruff: what struck nee is the comments from conservative commentators in the last day or so about what's happening. charles cryheimer says i have been defending this administration for months now found out what they were doing and i'm basically left hanging out to dry. are you seeing some republicans, some conservatives feeling as if the administration hasn't been straight with them? >> of course. what you're seeing from republicans and conservatives,
when you see the drip, drip, drip, and with the revelation that there was a meeting, it does get people concerned. they say, well, i didn't think there was going to be a meeting, i thought i would have learned this by now, that's why getting all the information out is awfully important. get it all out. my advice is get the e-mails and calendar items out. if you have nothing to hide, put it out there. i think that's what they had done with the refiling of disclosures which is why they know about this meeting. it is their disclosure. donald, jr., yes, he put out the e-mails but the media had already gotten them. having full disclosure will calm people down. all conservatives care about is was there wrongdoing. >> woodruff: karine, in poll after poll, since this latest information came out, donald trump's voting base are sticking with him. they're saying we don't care about russia for the most part --
>> yep. >> woodruff: i'm making a bit of a blanket statement but they're saying we want to see something done about healthcare and jobs. >> i think that's exactly right, but here's the thing -- voters didn't care about watergate until they did, and the issue that i have with that is these elected officials on the hill have a duty, a responsibility, regardless of -- regardless if voters care or not, they took an oath to protect the constitution, to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign or domestickenned -- and, so, therefore, they should care if there was an attack on our country. that is what is really kind of getting under my skin is this is truly, truly important. >> woodruff: and you do have the committees doing the investigation. >> yeah, i would say what russia tries to do with cyber security and our society on a daily basis with espionage is a big problem. i agree with that. the obama administration, he was in charge during this time, he left us vulnerable. they're making the charge they were doing something with our
election sirnlings he was the sheriff in down, the d.n.c. was hacked. we need to work in a bipartisan way to make sure they can't do these things. >> republicans are making this a partisan issue. >> there was a little bit of that to go around. >> mitch mcconnell and paul ryan need to stand up and speak. >> woodruff: all right. we may have another chance to talk about this again. it may not be the last chance. >> sorry, judy. >> woodruff: it's all right. karine jean pierre, matt schlapp. thank you. >> i'm hopeful for a new topic. >> woodruff: i bet you are. thank you. >> thank you. >> woodruff: check that label inside the collar of your cotton shirt. chances are, it doesn't say "made in the u.s.a.," even though the cotton it's made from was probably grown in the u.s.a.
now, cotton farmers in north carolina are trying to change that, teaming up with local textile mills to produce garments that are truly home grown, with around a dozen companies now producing clothing that can be traced back to local cotton fields. from pbs station wtvi in charlotte, jeff sonier shows us how carolina textile towns are bouncing back, after years of mills closing down and jobs moving out. >> reporter: inside this north carolina textile factory, it's the sound of survival. or maybe, revival. >> when nafta hit, they basically said textiles in this country are dead. you either go overseas, or you go out of business. >> reporter: that was the hard choice facing textile factory owner eric henry. the same hard choice that killed these other carolina textile mills-- along with the textile jobs they provided for generations. >> time was when cotton was king of the coastal plain...
>> there would be over 100 people working in here. our customers were tommy, nike, gap, polo, adidas. high level branded companies. within two years, we laid off 80% of our staff. the brands could not get overseas quick enough. and that's when i realized there's more to business than the bottom line. that's when i realized we wanted to be a different business. >> reporter: and for henry's business, being different means not just made in the u.s.a., but what he calls dirt to shirt-- products sewn here in the carolinas, from cotton that's grown here in the carolinas. >> yeah, you know, with all the struggles that carolina cotton mills have been through over the past couple of years, you'd figure carolina cotton farmers would be struggling, too. but actually, it's just the opposite. the farmers say that much like this cotton field we're standing in right now, their business is, you know, growing.
>> well, i think it's great. we're blessed to be able to grow a crop like this. >> reporter: butch brooks grows his cotton on a 100-year-old family farm, picking it from behind the wheel of a half million dollar harvester. cotton experts say the crop itself is high quality, which translates into high demand. >> this is the cotton that textile companies want. absolutely. textiles want this quality cotton for expensive garments, for high quality clothing. >> reporter: problem is, after it's cleaned and baled and barcoded for sale, most of this local cotton winds up in the same place those local jobs went-- overseas. >> this area of north carolina was the center of cotton in the world, at one time. people wanted to be able to go to the store and buy a shirt made in the united states. well, right now there's almost none of that. could we get that again? could we have something completely made in the carolinas? we just believe there's more to
a t-shirt than just the cost of a t-shirt. where it's made. how it's made. the impact it has on the people. the impact it has on the planet. we grow cotton here. we can make apparel here. >> reporter: in fact, the home- grown, home-sewn shirts here at henry's factory even have special color-coded threads in the hem and the sleeves, so you can track back your shirt to the very beginning. >> if you take those two colors, and go to a website: where, w-h-e-r-e, whereyourclothing.com. you put in these two colors, a map pops up, and from that map it will introduce you to the farmer, the ginner, the spinner, the knitter, the finisher, the cut-sew, and t.s. designs. we make our supply chain. completely transparent, all the way back to the farmer. >> reporter: henry admits his "dirt to shirt" concept isn't all that different from those popular farm-to-fork restaurants-- and that's no coincidence. >> offering people alternatives, something that they can support their community and have a
better product, and know where it comes from. we have had great cotton in this state for a long time. and all we're doing is reconnecting that cotton to jobs and textiles back in our state. >> reporter: with a goal of not putting the cheap overseas shirt makers out of business, but maybe growing-- and sewing-- a whole new business. for the pbs newshour, i'm jeff sonier in stanly county, north carolina. >> woodruff: what a promiising story. on the newshour online right now: nasa's juno spacecraft recently got its first up-close-and- personal view with jupiter's great red spot, and today, the space agency has released photos from the flyby. the images reveal many tantalizing details about what's happening in jupiter's giant storm. you can take a closer look at these gorgeous pictures on our website, www.pbs.org/newshour. and don't forget tomorrow and friday, correspondent nick schifrin continues his in-depth
series, a look inside vladimir putin's russia. in russia today, resurgent nationalism. >> it's organic, not artificial. built by and around one man. russians told pollsters that suddenly they felt like a super power again. >> but for putin's opponents -- people who have tried to leave the putin family voluntarily have not fared very well. >> a rare look inside putin's russia all this week on the pbs "newshour". >> woodruff: thursday and friday. and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. join us online, and again right here tomorrow evening. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you and we'll see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> bnsf railway.
>> supported by the rockefeller foundation. promoting the wellbeing of humanity around the world, by building resilience and inclusive economies. more at www.rockefellerfoundation.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and individuals. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access g >> welcome to the program.
i'm jeff glor of cbs news filling in for charlie rose. we begin tonight with the continuing coverage of the investigation into possible collusion between the trump campaign and russia. we talk to do shannon pettypiece of bloomberg news and ed o'keefe of "the washington post." >> we have not heard much from the president today. his twitter feed has kind of been eeriely quiet. he was a bit quiet yesterday as well. and sarah huckabee saunders spokesperson to the deputy press secretary put out a statement from the president, a very short brief statement calling his, complimenting his son and saying i admire his transparency. i typically would expect the president is not