tv Amanpour on PBS PBS February 9, 2018 6:00am-6:30am PST
pbs. from reality star to presidential contender, taking on russia's vladimir put tin in ne next month's election. oscar winning star, jeremy irons on his toughest role yet, eugene o'neill's acclaimed drama, long day's journey into night. in london's west end. >> announcer: "amanpour" on pbs was made possible by the jo
generous support of rosalynn palter. good evening, everyone. imagine a russian presidential candidate campaigning for warm relations with the united states and the west, for lgbt rights at home, an end to corruption, and bringing stolen billions back to the country. no, it's not vladimir putin who is a shoo in, and not alex say novalny. it is my next guest. ksenia, nationwide fame. she knows she won't win this time. but she says she wants to change the dialogue. she's been derided by critics as a kremlin stooj who will only divide and conquer can opposition, there is something new and different about her
style, as i found out when she joined me today from washington. ksenia sobcak, welcome to the program. >> thank you for inviting me. >> given the heats atmosphere between russia and the united states, it might seem strange for roigs campaign candidate to be campaigning in washington, d.c. why are you there? >> it's not strange at all. i'm sorry to say that to your american audience, but that's true. i'm here for my audience. i will show new policy that will be there. friendship with america and friendship with european union. this kind of to show where my international policy will be. and i think that with that, our relations is the priority of the future international policy of
russia. >> well, listen, that would obviously be music to a lot of people's ears in the united states as well. but i guess, you know, people want to know, do you also believe that you actually have a chance of winning? >> well, i don't think i have any chances to win this time because in a casino it's always casino who wins, and on russian elections, it's always putin who wins. but this is a chance to speak on all auditory channels. when you take part in a presidential campaign, you have a right to be on all federal channels. that's the only chance to opposition to be heard. and that millions of people can see and hear about liberal values. they haven't heard for like more than ten years already from tv. >> ksenia, that's an important point. president putin has a lock on
the state media channels, and he has a lock on all the state bureaucrats and people all over the country. not only do they work for him, but he's so well-known. do you feel that people know who you are? >> yes, of course. by all the polls in russia -- you can also check it out, i am very well-known person. all the people, more than 90% of russians know who i am. so in this respect my popularity is the same as putin, only little babies and very elderly people don't know me. this is where, actually, i think my victory can lie about because this is how people will come to the votes and put a -- tick when they see my name. the only important thing to do is tell about the values i share, how important liberalization of russia is.
>> what are the policies you would want to bring to russia? >> my goal is to bring the issues that were never brought up on federal tv, such as lgbt rights, which are a shock for many people because they really think that those people should go to prison. they shouldn't have any rights. people who share the idea that they should be punished for being lgbt, just for this fact. the same with crimea, for them it's a shock to see someone saying we probably national treaties, only truth. i'm not a populist. that's why i'm saying these things. i want people to see there's another position and another view on those subjects that are so important for russian audience. this is the only chance to speak them up. because putin cannot lock tv anymore for me during the campaign. i was pushed out of the tv for six years. i lost all my jobs when i went out on the protest in 2011.
and now it's the only chance to bring my position back on tv. because now he wants, you know, an open elections, all the world is watching him, and he can't just take one candidate away from tv. >> you are in washington, d.c., you're in the united states. i want to ask you, do you believe that russia hacked into america's democratic process, its election process in 2016? >> to tell you the truth, i don't know. well, it sounds like we really had something to do with it. but if it's so, i want to say sorry. and i think it's unacceptable for any country to meddle into the affairs for any country, nor for russian, nor for america. if that took place, i only can say i'm sorry. >> let me ask you another thing. because you are also running as a very well-known tv personality, you've just explained you are known all over russia. and, of course, president trump
ran as a very well-known businessman and tv personality. are you taking a leaf out of his book? are you sort of hoping to cash in on the so-called trump effect? >> well, trump is certainly not my hero, i'm sorry to say that. but that's true. but the most frustrating thing is those radical sayings trump used to say here in u.s., like nasty women and all those kind of things. for russians, the saying that crimea is not a part of russia, or that lgbt should have their right to marry and things like this, this is as radical for russian people. it's the same kind of shock. and unfortunately for us, liberal values are a shocking kind of thing. so this i want to break. and in this respect, unfortunately we have something in common. but i really think that trump effect can work because my popularity in russia is huge.
i really did a lot in show business ten years ago. since then, for ten years, i'm doing political journism. but i want to show that your past is not a life sentence. it's a lesson you learn. and i really changed a lot for those past ten years. and yes, i had some fun entertainment program. but there was long ago. and since then i showed and proved to many of my citizens that i have changed a lot. and i really stand for the most important values in my country. >> so now let's get to the obvious skepticism about your candidacy. because it's russia, most people are saying two things. one, you would never be allowed to run. you would never be approved to get all those signatures, which you have got, more than 100,000. without the approval of the kremlin, without president putin's approval. and the other thing they say is the fact that you're running actually splits the opposition
because the main opposition candidate, alexeynavolny is not allowed to run. >> it was all clear, made it an experiment with all the international organizations such as golus, for example. we showed how transparent we were. and it was not a problem for me. what you're right about, those signatures could just not be accepted if putin would call and say, no, i don't want her to go. so my point was to be underestimated which actually happened. yes, they are afraid of alex ey, and not afraid of a blond girl in tv shows. from a totalitarian regime, this is the only thing you can do. you can make them feel they can underestimate you and then do your job. if we stand for values and not
for leadership, it doesn't matter who says those important things on tv. alexey, or me, this was my position. but unfortunately alexey has another point of view. he thinks these voices cannot be transferred. nor me, nor him could win the election. that's sure. he also accepts this point of view. that's why i go there, and i don't know why he chose another way. because i think we could unite and show that we're together on this grounds, we're sharing the same values, and it doesn't matter none of us could win this time. but we will still be there showing our firm position. >> what you're talking about the other way, and those who support alexey, is a boycott. they're saying don't legitimize the election, just boycott the elections. i'd lake to play you an interview i did with the author, journalist and social
commentator masha guessen. >> i think that no matter how you cut it, you legitimate a farce. he is breaking the monotony of a public space, an affront to the monopoly the kremlin has on any kind of conversation. she is trying to push it as far as she can. the fact that it's being done by arrangement with the kremlin, the fact that she is succeeding in siphoning support from -- >> on the one hand she's praising what you're doing. on the other hand she's concerned that you will play into the kremlin's hands. >> look, let's be logical about this. novolny wanted to take part in those elections. he was not let to do that. but he wanted.
if he would be accepted as a candidate by kremlin, wouldn't it legitimate putin as well? and then would he call people to boycott? of course, no, he would tell go vote for me. we cannot win, but millions of us are against putin. but then he was not let to the elections. what happened next? he says, no, if i'm not there, then it's a fake election, and let's boycott that. but that's strange. that's double standards. so here i see, you know, some kind of wrong mathematics. you can be against putin, but you cannot be against mathematics. we don't have a minimum turnout in russia. so if even if 10 people come, then putin will still be a president. but if all those 10 people will be for putin, it will be 100% for putin. if threeeople out of those ten will be against putin, we will have another percentage, which is, you know, will cnge the atmosphere in russia.
so mathematically, boycott is a bad idea. and novolny knows that. he only does that because he's not there. >> so let me ask you, because it has been written that putin is not necessarily, as you've admitted, running against you or novolny, he's running against app thi apathy, that he is worried about a low turnout. >> i don't agree with that at all. they fake the elections, and they fake the turnouts. so, you know, when everything is done like that, you cannot say if they're interested or not. they will do them the bigger turnout if we don't come. it's much more easier to fake turnout if people are not coming. tickle those names, and that's it. and i don't want to waste your time, but there's a whole program how they do it. and i was also investigating
those kind of things last election. so it's our goal to vigilate those elections. that was the position of novolny for many years, come and vote for anyone, but not putin. that's the most effective way not to grow the percentage of people for putin. >> how do you see a post-putin era? one day he's going to stand down. what happens next? >> post-putin era will begin, first of all, with letting out of the prisons of the political prisoners, which now exist in russia. we have a huge problem that people can be put to prison only for sharing alternative kind of views on russia. secondary, it's the change of the court system. we don't have a rule of law now. we don't have any independent courts in russia. all courts do their job by the call from kremlin.
so this is second. and third thing is free competitive economy. that is vital for our country. now, more than 70% of all the economy belongs to the state. and that's why it's not competitive where -- this is where corruption comes from. i want to break the system. i want a free competition on the market. i want investment from western countries, come back to my country, and build new roads, build new industries, and things like this. so this is my three primary goals. and i also have a message for america, i want to share now. my message is that the position that russia should be kept out is a bad message because when you try to destabilize such a big country with nuclear weapon, it won't do any good for anyone, nor for russians, nor for americans. the good way, and my new policy
will be about this, my international policy, is to keep the russian in, is to do so that russia would become in all the institutions, a big part and play a major role in european union, in nato maybe. let's embrace russia with all the demock atization processes that go in the world. as soon as you keep russia distanced, people in russia feel offended. they feel they are not part of the western world. but we are. let's be together in embracing those values. that's the best way to control the situation, the totalitarianism will never happen again in russia or in any other country. >> we will be watching the march 18 elections, and the run-up to them. thanks for joining us from washington tonight. >> thank you, thank you. outspoken and passionate, the russian presidential candidate giving putin, she hopes, a run for his money.
russia has also given the world some of the best poets and play wrights, so has america. my next guest, jeremy irons, is winning rave reviews for his portrayal of an actor in eugene o'neill's master spees, "long day's journey into night." he's been wowing audiences since 1981 with his breakthrough role in tv's "brides head revisited." more than 35 years later irons joined me here today to talk about what could be his last look at the foot lights. jeremy, welcome to the program. here you are playing james tyrone in "long day's journey into night." it is an amazing play. is it hard? how does it compare to movies? >> it's wonderfully hard compared to movies, hard
compared to most plays. i think it's the hardest part i've played. and i've got colleagues who say the same thg, the few who've playedames tyrone. it's -- o'neill, deeply emotional. it's quite long, very complicated characters. it's -- when richard air asked me to do with lesley manville who i admire hugely, i thought, well, maybe i've got one more mountain in me. and i don't know whether i'll do any other biggies after this, but it's great to get match fit again, you know. >> one more mountain. that grueling, is it? >> oh, yeah. >> what is like? how many performances per peek? >> these great roles, you produce the amount of adrenaline you would if you were driving a car 30 miles an hour into a
brick wall, what that does to you, that's what happens every night. and, you know, when you get to my age, and i no longer -- i know i look it, but i'm no longer in my 20s. >> you do look it, near enough. >> and, you know, it doesn't get easier. >> does learning the lines get more difficult? >> yeah, it does. >> you don't have one of those ear jobs in? >> no, no. >> it is one of the, if not the masterpiece by eugene o'neill. >> i think so. >> the relationship between james tyrone and his wife mary, is it extremely complex? i mean, they're both incredible, flawed characters. what is the heart of the play? >> well, i think -- i think the heart, in fact the greatness of the play derives from the fact that he didn't write it to make money. he wrote it as sort of cathartic two-year odyssey into trying to
make sense of what he was, how he'd become what he was through the past, through his parents, through his family. and he never wanted it published until 25 years after his death. and he never wanted it performed. so it has -- >> why not? >> i think it was too personal to him. you know, he put his washing out and didn't want people to see it. >> the dirty laundry was all out there. >> as a result it has a truth and an honesty in it, and a strength in it, which i think had he written it to be seen by the public, or indeed had it been played in his lifetime, that will change that. but he knew it was, in a way, a private odyssey for him. that makes it -- it's a really emotional journey for both those characters, myself who plays his
father, eugene's father who was an actor, irish immigrant, but learned an american accent and became a great young actor. and could have gone on about the early 20s in his life to become a great shakespearean actor. but then got a huge smash hit, the count of monte cristo, and continued to play that his whole life. it's like today me getting a job in whatever, an ever running "game of thrones," makes your name, earns you money, doesn't do you a lot of good as an actor in the way that theater with shakespeare does. this man looks back at one point in the play, and regret it is route it's taken and also the route it's taken as made his wife a morphine addict.
>> i was going to get to that. mary is a morphine addict, and it just so happens that right now america is literally awash in opioids. and it's this terrible crisis. this is actually very contemporary in that way. >> it is indeed. it does speak about today. it does speak about dysfunctional families, which so many of us know about. it deals about suffering, and the pain of all our lives. you know, we pretend we all have a gay old time, but life is suffering with good moments in between. >> you have said in the past that beneath men's shells they're all little boys who think they're worthless. where did that come from? >> well, i think it's the truth. >> did you feel that? >>io, oh, yeah. i think the one great disadvantage we have over your sex is we don't have a womb. so we don't really have a purpose. you can breed, you can create children. men can't. and they're always trying to fill that void. and they do it by chasing money,
by chasing status, by chasing power or warfare or whatever, or fame. but it's very rare to find a man who is completely with himself, aware of where he sits in life, and who doesn't have that urge to go out and -- >> pillage and plunder? >> pillage and plunder. which leads me to the me too movement, because we've seen so many women who have come out and told their historic stories of abuse and harassment. where does -- where do men fit into this? i mean, obviously the abusers. but can men, like yourself and others who clearly feel for them be part of the solution? >> well, i think it's very important for people like me, white male, successful, to
listen and to learn. but at base, i think we have to love each other, respect each other, tolerate each other, and wonder in the difference in each other. whatever our sex, whatever our age, whatever our sexual proclivities. that's sort of where i stand. >> you played a lot of heroic roles, and a lot of baddies as well. you were the baddie in lion king, you were scar. and you were the baddie in reversal of fortune. >> die hard. >> die hard. and you're about to come out with a new film with jennifer lawrence, "red sparrow". >> wonderful film. what's the attraction of baddies? >> i don't see goodies and baddees. we all have gray in us. we make choices in life, and those choices are judged by other people who say that is good or bad. there is evil.
but that's not really what i play. i play people who have been judged as bad. >> well, you were the goodie hero in the french lieutenant's woman. and then, as i said, reversal of fortune won you on oscar. you're now playing in long day's journey, with lesley manville who's up for an oscar for "phantom thread." >> quite rightly too. >> any advice, the highs, the lows? >> she's very lucky. now, the poor guys who are nominated, they have to go around and do publicity trails. lesleys is playing with me every night. she can't. she has to fly over for the oscars and come back and be back for the tuesday night show. so she won't have to go through that whole ferrago. i hope she'll enjoy it. i did. it's like having a birthday.
i went mad. i kissed everybody in sight. i kissed madonna who was sitting in front of me, i don't know, and sitting next to her was michael jackson. i nearly kissed michael. you don't remember anything, really. >> jeremy irons, thank you very much indeed. >> my pleasure. a master class from jeremy irons. and that is it for our program tonight. thanks for watching "amanpour" on pbs, and join us again thanks for watching "amanpour" on pbs, and join us again tomorrow night. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> announcer: amanpour on pbs was made possible by the generous support of rosalynn p. walter. you're watching pbs.