tv Charlie Rose PBS April 12, 2012 11:00pm-12:00am PDT
>> rose: welcome to our program, tonight we continue our conversation with masters champion abandon watson. >> they got my trainer and put him around me and says we need some changes. >> rose: almost like an intervention. >> yesfour se. anit swed me a lot of guts, shod a iend tha didn't care, obviously didn't care about making money off of me, didn't care about what i did on the golf course, he cared about me as a person, he wanted me to change and it relaxed me a lot and it has helped me a lot. >> rose: we continue our conversation about golf with yani tseng, she is a top ranked female golfer in the world and some say the hottest golfer playing today. >> i think i enjoy having so
much fun, i am very lucky, i play, i have a job that i realy like and i enjoy every moment, don't matter iwe wn th tournant olosen the tournament but i enjoy, really have so much fun playing golf. >> rose: we conclude this evening with simon callow on stage with the brooklyn academy of music in being shakespeare. >> toward the pebbled store, so do our minutes hasten to their end, each changing place with that which went before, in sequent toil, all forwards to contend, nativity, once the main of light, crawls to matury, wherwith being crned crook lipsesetsts glorious sight and time which gave, does now his gift confound. >> rose: from golf to shakespeare, from bubba watson to yani tseng, to simon callow, when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose was provided by the following.
captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: bubba watson is here at six years old, he began curving plastic golf bas a nine iron ithe family's backyard and neverad a coach or tken a sing sson,n sunday he was crowned a masters champion at augusta national, he captured the green jacket in dramatic fashion on the second hole in a stud death play-off against lewis east haze en, he pulled off one of the most imaginative shots in majors history. .. >> oh, what a shot, look at it, hooking on the green, incredible, absutely increble.
>> bubba what respond is wearing a green jacket at augusta! and this time, his name is bubba. >> rose: tom watson, then bubba watson, first triumph in a major tournament and poised to continue that success in the u.s. open in june, in san francisco, i am pleased to have him at this table for the first time. welcome. >> thank you very much. >> rose: have you ever played it safe? >> i play it safe -- >> rose: i mean lay itp is no a word yuse. >> ha lying up. i love the challenge, i love trying to do something that just hasn't been done or it is hard to do. not for game or for the crowd but just for me as a person, me and my caddy talk and try to -- >> rose: has there ever been a moment, whether last year or five years ago that you wondered whether bubba would do what bubba was capable of doing? >> oh, four sure. i think three years ago two, years ago, three years ago my caddy came to me and sat down in a restaurant, after u.s. open
qualifier which i didn't qualify for,nd heaid that i cn't watch this. you know, you are my good friend, i am making a lot of money off you, but i don't care about that, i care about you as a friend, and he said, i am going to have to walk away if you don't change and my wife was saying that for years, you know, you need to get a better attitude, bubba off th off the e was so much better than bubba on the course, i was going the wrong way, very angry, a lot of envy, why can't i perform, why haven't i won, why haven't i done this and ranked higher in the world. >> rose: you were your own worst enemy. >> sure. and that is not me on the on, off the course i couldn't care about anything what people say about me, i was just a fun loving bubba and twitter really helped me out with that, playing funny videos and so, you know, it was just something that it dime me and really hit home, they fessed up my trainer and put arm around me. >> rose: it is almost like an
intervention. >> yes, for sure. and it showed me a lot of guts, it showed a friend that didn't care, obviously, didn't care about making money off me, didn' ca about what i did on the golf go cour, he car about me as a person and that's not me, he wanted me to change and it relaxed me a lot and it has helped me a lot and helped me a lot, gained fans through twitter to see me on the golf course and see who i am now and then two-year, whirlwind i won four times now and one happened to be the major, the green jacket. >> rose: and the ryder cup is something very important. >> oh, sure. any time my dad got graft drafted in vietnam and a green beret, represent our country well and anybody that put thaunit states fl,he a symbol, that is a big honor and for men and women to step up and fight for our country, with people they don't even know, just fighting for bubba watson, they don't know me but for for me and you, for one week out of
the year to put on the red, white and blue on our sleeve is a big honor and a privilege. >> rose: you have gotten a call from the captain already. >> i called him. i got a new number. >> rose: what did you say? >> i got a new number, the day after i won i got a new cellphoneumbe >> rose: yes. >> and i texted him th the new number and i said, hey, this is my new number i want you to know, have it and he texted me back, congratulations, an awesome win. >> and i said now i have to win the ryder cup. >> right now zero number one on the ryder cup course. >> so i just try to butter him up and make sure i get a pick and he just said, yeah let's do it, that is going to be so much fun and let's get together soon and talk about it and everything, so, yeah, i made sure i gave him a little nudge in the right direction. >> rose: so when youchanged, when your caddy come to you as arien and says, i love you and you have got to change, how did you change? >> you know, in 2004, when me and my wife got married two months after we got married we
got baptized together, being a christian, being a believer, i was just -- my biggest downfall was the golf course, i just looked mean and really going through some tough times because i wanted to win, envious which is not good, a lot of these things weren't good, you know, we all have problems, but that was my biggest problem on the inside the ropes so they came to me and made sense, i uerstood it and knew i was going the wrong way, so when they came to me it really hit home, i got deep never the word, started understanding the bible more, understanding what true friend are all about. >> rose: yes. >> and so i just changed and realized that, you know, golf is not that big of a deal, it got me some great things and some great press, got me some game, got me some money, but it let me do other things that are really important to me, the charity work, meeting with juniors, and giving back to my community in pensacola and doing all of these great things, when it comes down to it, when we are in a golf tourname, winning is great but dointhesothe thgs about golf is what it is all about and
so i put all of that together after that, after that intervention there. >> rose: yes. >> id mate sense and all came together and i think that is why golf, i don't know, i don't want to say easier but golf got more fun, and then i won some tournaments now. >> rose: loosened you up. >> loosened me up and i am not so -- my mind is not just set on one bad shot, it is we have 18 holes to improve if there is one bad shot. >> rose: you also wore white, you wore e same tng for four days the. >> that was about what? >> that was about charity, that was about giving back to charities in la, my clothing company is out of la travis matthew, and we did, there is a cancer research hospital there that they are donating money to, so 10 100 outfits we sold a belt and shirt and all -- every dollar goes to charity, and then if all 100 outfits are sold, they are going to donate an extra 50 grand and so cancer research hospital and then it is
called another charity there is when kids are born with a cleft lip, deformities, and they pay for them, the families that can't pay for them, can't afford the surgery irs, surgeries because there are a lot of surguries to improve the kid's appearance, to improve the kid's self-esteem so half the money goes to that and half goes to cancer research. >> rose: it sound like a remarkable marriage you have and then you searched for a number of years to find, so the process of adoption takes a while with all of the paperwork. >> >> rose: rig. >> and so we sartedn florida four years ago, then we moved to arizona and decided to move to arizona full time and so then state law, you have to start the process over, when we decide dee following winter to start the process over, my dad got cancer, so he got cancer, we flew back to florida right away, spent time with him, with the family,
so we stopped the whole process again, because we were in florida for a couple of months. then the season started so next winter, he passes away, so fl back to florida and spent time with hi before he passed away, told my mom, so the adoption process is on the back burner and fourth year we had the season, we started the process and got halfway through it, some beautiful child came up for adoption. >> rose: yes. >> we got turned down a few times, and then caleb came around and we got accepted, and so we -- now we have a new boy. >> rose: so you have a masters championship and a new boy. nothing would have been better than to have your dad see this, but he clearly, you d a chnce to tk to him aboutwhat y re gng to do and whatt was ing be and h much he meant to you and how much golf he helped you love, you know. >> it was -- yeah it was crazy, he went to the first masters and couldn't walk, rheumatoid arthritis for many years, couldn't walk a long stance, so
his joints were killing him but sat behind the ninth green and watched me the first year at the masters and enjoyed every minute of it, and then he got to see me after we -- after he got cancer, nobody knew about it and tried to keep it hush-hush and then when i won at travellers in connecticut, that's when i announced he was about toass away of ccernd struggling real bad and we knew it and then i made the ryder cup team and finished second at a major so he has gotten to see me almost win a major and the better i played the more i was on tv so the more he got to see his son on tv and made the ryder cup, and he not to watch me in the ryder cup and what else? we lost, but you know you have to watch the ryder cup with the usa flag and as soon as i got home from the ryder cup, nine days before he passed i spent nine days by his bedsie. to. >>ose: makes you derstand exactly what father-on is bou >> f sure, yes, it crazy, we only had caleb two weeks and i only had been there for five days, and just amazing. >> rose: you are a remarkable young man and at 33 your life,
you know, looks like it is going to be goin going to a remarkable place and what i think all of us look at when we see you is first of all this sort of natural born sense of loving the game, someone who once said to me about television, you know, let them know you love what you are doing and you clearly have shown that and i think you have struck a chord inamera and around the world because golf is such an international sport withome sense of this sort of authenticity that you have reflected in these interviews here and a passion passion for a game and sharing with all of us a sense of what it is that makes life interesting for you and what it is that helped all of us understand what it takes to be really, really good at something, so i am, i am really honored you have come here, it is a pleasure to know you and a pleasure to watch you play golf but more interesting is to find out wha what your life has been like, so thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> rose: pasure. >> this is great. >> rose: tnk you. back in a mont.
>> yani tseng is here, she is a top ranked female golfer in the world, she was the lpga mare of the year in 2010 and also 2011, at 23 she is the youngest man or woman to win five major titles, with 12 victories last year she led the tour in scoring average, driving distance, birdies and rounds under par and while she is a household name in taiwan her profile is beginning to bro in the united states. i am very pleased to have her herat this table zero for the first time, weome. >> ankou. who taught youo play >> my parents, my parents, since i was five, started golf and my parent, they both are playing golf but i am only one kid playing golf in my house. >> rose: in other words, how many sisters and brothers. >> one older brother and one younger sister. >> and they didn't play golf, it was you? >> just me and i love it, i love every challenge on the golf course and my parents really give me big support. >> rose: so why do you any you have done so well, you have
talent, you were hungry. >> uh-huh. >> rose: what else? >> i think i enjoy,havi so uch fun, i am very lucky, you know, i play -- i have a job i really like and i enjoy every moment, it doesn't matter if you win in a tournament or lose a tournament but i enjoy, i really have so much fun playing golf mr. >> is there anything about your game that you would change? >> hard to imagine anything? >> i don't think so, i think just enjoy, and keep smile, my goal is to smile more on the golf course and so many things on and off the golf coue, i mean just keep improving myself and keep learng. ros ifhereis a lesson to earn fr the experience of michelle wi? >> probably not going to play in the men's tournament. [ laughter ] >> rose: that's a good one. >> oh, i mean -- >> rose: i think you can get a career as a comedian if this was doesn't this work out. >> yes, i have a request to try to play this year, but maybe in
the future, you know, like anika, and maybe in the future if i have some reason i can go play. >> rose: did you grow up wit a roleodel >>es, anika, anika was by anything superstar and i think because of her when i was young i told myself one day i want to play with onika. >> and you did? >> and i did, and now it is just incredible, it is a dream come true. >> rose: i mean, has every dream come true for you? >> mostly. on the way, it is great, the major, first major, and i think i am four points away with the whole thing, so that was the biggt dream, and so i am working on , some bithin that i need to learn, going toward my goal and i am just having so much fun. >> rose: can you win the u.s. open? >>ly do my best, i got a lot of advice from anika. >> rose: what did she say? >> you have to face it, because
before when the media was asking me, do you want to win the major or do you want to win the graceland? but i always say, no, i don't want to think about it too much, and so every time i get there i kind of feel lots of pressure, so anika just told me to face it .. even at the binni of the year, just told r yes that's wha yo want, ou wt a grand slam, you want a u.s. open so when you get the u.s. open when people ask you that question, and you are not afraid anymore. >> rose: what is the best thing about your gainl? >> game? >> i don't know. i mean -- >> it all seems to work well, doesn't it? >> it is getting better, i think i am just relaxed, you know, because i know the more enjoy i play the people will more enjoy and the people will enjoy to watch. >> rose: the more you enjoy? now, are you enjoying it more now that youre winning more? >> yeah, of course. i mean, myoach always tells me if you play like this, i mean if you don't like, that means you don't like. >> rose: if you don't like this, what is there to like?
>> that's right. >> rose: so but you continue to practice hard, i mean, you just told me you went out and to the driving range to see if you could duplicate that shot. >> yep. i am working very hard, but i mean, just you need to keep working and learning from every tournament and learning from the mistake and this is my fifth year on the tour, and i mean, i lov to watch masters, you can always learn something from that, and ther it there are so y magic shots here, and you can always learn and work on -- >> rose: golf is very popular in asia. >> it is. >> rose: hugely popular. >> it is. and i mean, in taiwan it is getting there, it is not as -- it is not as good, like japan and korea, but it is getting there, i mean especially golf in the olympics, i mean that is huge for the chinese golf in chinese, taiwan, so we are all very excited abt at. >> rose: so you are excited to bin t olympic >>m, i am very exciting. >> rose: what other goals do
you have in life? >> i would thinking in the future i want a career to golf in china and help more kids, because i love the kids so much, but i don't know how to play with them, but i love it, so i wish in the future i can help move people that, you know, playing golf or like go study and do the things that they can do. >> rose: do you play an aggressive game? >> yes. i am very aggressive. so -- >> rose: it is what wecalling a leing question. >> i always am learning from the mistakes. >> rose: yo you know how it feels. >> yes, i am always very aggressive, i think it is more fun to play, at a par five you can reach whatever you can reach, if you are in the water -- >> rose: if you can reach it in two, reach it in two. >> yeah. why do you want to lay off? that's why -- >> rose: you never lay off when you can go for it, is that what you said? >> yes. >> never lay off if you can go for it. >> yes. >> rose: take it out, let it rip. >> that's what i say grip it
and rip it. >> rose: gri it a rip it. ye. >> rose: now, who taught you that? >> my coach. >> rose: your coach did. grip it and rip it. >> yes, when i was young, the first coach i have in taiwan, he just told me, just hit it as hard as you can, don't worry about where the ball is going. >> rose: is that right? >> yeah. >> rose: and that is what arnold palmer's father told him, hit as far as you can and then you control it later. >> yeah. so after a couple of years, like when i was seven or eight, and i started to like come toward my swing better and controlling the ball better but the first couple of years wasrip it and rip it hit it as hard as i can and the paul was going everywhere, it is sort of fun for a kid, it is just fun. >> today you in play, in most of the tournaments you play in, do you keep it in the fairway out of say, 14 out of 18 fairways or -- >> well, no, i wasn't that good on the fairway, but it was getting better, like i say, i learn from the mistakes like the
first couple of years, the driving acura i have over the 100 range so i was like very opposite, i was lie, no,how can i be bothered with driving acura city. >> rose: you were number 100 -- >> i know. >> rose: not so good. >> so after a couple of years i realized i need to be more consistent with my driving accuracy so i worked on a lot of the woods, like lots of driver, and strategy to try to keep on the fairway more, so this couple of years my driving accuracy was getting better. i mean, back to the top 50. >> rose: so how would you like to be in the top five in drivi acracy >> well, i am kind ofa lone hitter. >> 270 yards out, yes -- >> is tying ear hero for you in terms of the golf game he played. >> it is, especially when he hits everywhere and he always recovers. >> rose: so fe represent o can
do that too. >> where. >> who are the five greatest golfers of all-time, would you say? anika. >> mickey wright. >> rose: clearly going way back. >> yeah. and lauren ocha, and, mean, i ally lik- so muc pun to play with her. and for right now, i think -- really the role model that i can -- >> rose: tiger obviously had two goals, one was to, win more grand slams than anybody, jack nicholas has 18 he has 14. >> it is. >> rose: he won all of the grand slams over a longer period of time, not a trick calenr year, c yowinall of the grand slams in a year? >> i am trying to, but i just missed the -- i tell myself i
have to win this, but i do my best, and sometimes the harder you try the worse you get, so -- >> rose: now, nicholas has palmer or palmer has anybody las, there was a while they thought tiger and phil might be, you know, they feed off each other, do you need somebody who is very competitive with you so you can feed off that person and have a real competition? >> i ink storks i man we have so man grt players on e lpga, they are all very, very good players s so we kind of puh each other to get better and better, so i mean, like when we play on the course, every player has a different style, i am aggressive, to some people they play very smart, so you are learning from each other and to get better, and there was so much fun to, when you are on top and competing with other players, and it is fun, so many things you can learn. >> rose: can we be aggressive and smart at the same time. >> that' what i wt to learn, i think am sll little more like aggressive, but i play it a
little smart. my caddy helps a lot. >> rose: really? how does he or she help you? >> i mean, sometimes one of the drivers, he will say noing i think you can hit this here. it is not a long goal, and you still have maybe 100, 120, it is like, yeah that makes since so i hit a rescue, so we work together about two years, and i think he helps a lot. >> rose: now, tiger and hogan used to say tey knew where the club was at erymoment, i mean,hey d a nse -- you have that feeling you know exactly where it is, the hole? >> i do, like sometimes, you feel like you just want to go for it, this is the way you feel, you female like you can get there, you feel like the imagined shot you can hit it and sometimes you should just do what your instincts say, you know, just really play for it. >> rose: other than grip and rip, what is the best industries you have received? >> like i say, anika was telling
me you always ne to have a goal. >>ose: a goal? >> yea it doesn't matter if th big goal or a small goal or like something very little. >> rose: she is right. >> i think that is the one that everybody should have. like for me right now, even like i am on top but i always have a small goal, long-term goal and a short-term goal and that gives me lots of motivation through myself. >> when you are on the driving range, do you have a goal? >> yes, i do. >> rose: just depends on what part of the game you are working on? >> yes, for example, on the off week, when i go and pracce for an tra ree hours and i will say today todayly focus more on the short game or the swing, so every day i don't feel like i would just go practice, and not learn anything. i didn't work out. so i mean when i have a goal, it is more fun to practice too, and i know what can i do to improve myself? >> rose: tell me about your life when you are not playing
golf. >> just like a normal, i go shopping, i like watching movies, and i like to watch other sports like tennis, basketba, basall,nd iike to sy at home and with my family and friend, now, what about education and your own sort of learning and being able to have a continuing, you know, learning experience? beyond golf? >> you know, i am studying at a university in taiwan, the sports university, so i mean, i like to study, i mean, like for me, people always ask me, if you were not a golfer i would love to be a student, i like be in school, to lea so man diffent things, in school, so that's why i am still at university, i want to keep learning and i think this is going to help a lot. >> rose: much success to you, you are a pleasure to talk to. >> thank you. >> rose: thank you.
>> rose: simon callow is here and he has been acting for more than 30 years, appearing in weddings and the funeral, phantom of the opera, and he has written sever books, biographiesf or wellwel and chles dickens,in being being shakespeare, it draws on passages from his plays, it is showing in the brooklyn academy of music until april 14th, i am pleased to have simon callow back at this table. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: tell me about being shakespeare. where does it come from? why do you want to do this, and what is the magic of it all? >> well, of course, we are it early fascinated to know who it was who created this staggering body of plays, this amazing invention of language, this invention of the theatre, the central figure in our lives, whether we ever go see a play or not, we are influenced by william shakes spheres his words
will be on his lips whether we know it or not, he coined thousands of words in every day circulation and when we talk about love we are really talking about romeo and juliet and influenced by his vision of love but we know, really frankly almost nothing about the inner life of this man, we know a lot about his outer life and know all of the important things, who his mother and father were, where he was born, how many brothers and sisters he had, when he married, how many children and so on, so interesting stuff, but not revealing stuff, we tonight have a letter from him, we don't have a diary entry from him, he never did an interview, for example, which would have been very illuminating if he had. so we want to know, we have to -- we feel, i think very human to just want to know who else is the guy who created all of this, so what do you do? you take the bits that you know, you find out something about his life, about the times in which he lived, about the age and all of that and what we have tried too in this play, this kind
biographical journey into shakespeare, this journey and quest, we take his great speech on the stage, which is an account of a human life, and we ask ourselves, what was it like to be elizabethan, and elizabethan schoolboy or elizabethan soldier, et cetera, et cetera. >> rose: the first age of the infant, the second is the schoolboy, the third is the lover, the fourth is the army and. >> the seventh a is dementia. >> alzheimer's of which he gives the most greatest account just like it is what to be human in every area of life. he anticipates it in an extraordinary way what we are now all so familiar with, which is horror of our -- the dread of dementia, there is it is in king lear, clinically laid out. >> rose: and you know this personally? >> well, i know it from my mother's has had alzheimer's for six years, she hasn't known who i am for the last four of them
and i have seen it all absolutely, the whole journey. actly describ. by william shakespeare 500 years ago. >> rose: he understood what it meant the age of man and woman. >> yes. about everything. it is the most unineffective assistance of counsel thing and as an actor you are very aware that his account of his characters, is completely organic, it doesn't seem to have been created by excessive intellectual endeavor, it seems that he has put his finger on the pulse of all of these individual human beings and just allowed their blood t flow thrgh his strains. it is an extraordinary sensation as an actor, if you trust the part as he wrote it, you don't have to play the part at all, the part will play you, and it is thrilling to surrender to the life in the writing, most extraordinary. >> and is that what is required to do, to do shakespeare well? to surrender to it?
>> yes. it has a certain form, which is in certain rhythms and there is a shape to phrases, and you interfere with that at your peril but bacally, you open your self up to it, you allow it to take you over, and when it does, it is just exactly like having somebody's life flow through you it is quite extraordinary and i find myself dangerously moved by what happens, by the naturalness, the similar miss at this of so much of it, there is a little scene in winter's tale when young prince is trying to entertain his mother, and her language is so simple but it is as if you just overheard it next door, come on, sit down, come on. and do your best to frighten me with your sprites. she said you are powerful at it, it is any mother talking to her child at any time in human history. it is absolutely exquisite and astonishing. >> rose: we have on videotape all the world is a stage,.
> all the world is stage and all of the men and women merely players, they have the exits and the entrances, and one man in his time plays many parts, he might have been speaking for his author that is certainly how william shakespeare saw the world, and then ke adds, he is being asked about seven ages, a human life. at first the infant, newly and, muling and puking in the nurse's arms, like shakespeare you start like every bay, mewling and puking. >> rose: put that in context and give me your own best. >> well, what basically, it comes out of, it is a speech by the court i didn't of theld duke who is in exile in the forest, and the duke makes a remarkable observation, young man, orlando comes in, in deep
distress and is frightened and angry and aggressive and the talk copies him down and the boy comes off to fetch his oldster vant he has been carrying through the forest with him and the duke says to his courtier's, you see we are not all alone unhappy. that phrase in itself is astonishing and what the theatre is about, we are not all ane unhappy, were all in this together we all know what it is to be human. and then he says, this widened universal theatre presents more willful pageants than the scene wherein we play it. we are all in it, again he is saying the same thing and jake chips in and says all the world is a stage, and all the men and women merely players. they have their exits and their entrances and one man in his time and, time and place plays many parts, his act being seven ages and what i observe in the show is that is exactly how shakespeare saw the world he saw the world as a wide and universa theatre and we are all
make parts, and they change as we get older, we are all putting on disguises, we are all offering as sides to the audience of our life and all basically actors. he was an actor himself, an actor of modest accomplishment and modest ambition, he only played small parts, as far as we are aware. in my view because because if he played anything like hamlet or othello he would have unhinged himself, the intensity of the emotion as it passed through him would have just created sort of a nervous breakdown so he holds himself back from those kind of -- >> rose: i want to have you talk about these ages, i mean, at first the infant. >> yes. >> rose: mewling and puking in the nurse's arms. >> yes. pretty vivid isn't it, puking, throwing up, and there is an interesting example of a word he
invented, puking was invented by william shakespeare and such a vivid, vivid world, throwing up like that and no sentimentality, you see, mewling, moaning and puking in the nurse's arms, and that's all he tells us about the -- what it is to be an infant. and then he moves on to the winding schoolboy, and again, so vivid. >> rose: and then the whining schoolboy with his satchel and shining morning face. creeping like a snail, unwillingly to school. >> i mean, isn't that every child you have seen on their way to school. > > rose:. >> ? >> rose: he went to school where he taught latin grammar. >> one of the things we tried to do is we tried to strait what every person in elizabethan england experienced and then obviously he would have experienced that to some extent himself. and what is fascinating is the kind of education that he got in the grammar school, a grammar school in strat haven and
springing up all over the country, it was -- it was a new move by the tutor establishment, they wanted to train up a class of lawyers and clark and politicians, the sort of main stays of the elizabethan state, so they were training them up but the way they trade them was to teach them rhetoric which is the art of argument, basically, of organizing your thoughts, marshalling your arguments and i think it was a very strict discipline whic which had very particular codes, and practices and vocabulary, all of its own but that is exactly how shakespeare was taught, he didn't study anything nestle the grammar school, they didn't study history and they didn't study gentleman ography, they didn't study mathematics or science, they just studied rhetoric, language, the many different ways to say things, and what better training could you have for a writer? >> rose: but his education was trunk evaluated? >> yes because his dad fell into debt, his father is an interesting figure, we know that
bits and pieces about his father but one of them, of course he was the mayor of stratford and a person of some significance, but then he ran, he goes into terrible debt, and then worse than that, he made loans to people charging excessive interest rates which was the crime and sin of usury, and he was thrown, booted off the local council and forbidden to access to the church. now that is an incredible thing in the 16th century he was banned from going to the church, he was a kind of pariah. we ask ourselves in the play what does that do do a young man if your father is such a -- someone who is shunned in the town? and the answer is he goes to london to make good. and once he goats london, he find it is very hard to get a job, as it was. >> rose: and then the third age is the lover, and then the lover. >> ye >> rose: sighing like a furnace with a willful ballad made to his mistresses eyebrows.
>> yes. >> the witness: at this, i mean it is so witty .. >> a marriage at 18. >> a marriage at 18, until he was older, 26 that is a big gap. >> rose: that is. >> in fact it was very unusual for a young man to get married, only three people in his whole area in 50 years who got married under the age of 20, and of course she was pregnant too. which was a shocking thing in the elizabethan society so the question is, everybody wants to know about shakespeare's wife and his relationship with her, the one thing everybody rebels about it is in his will he left her the second best bed, that is all an everybody thinks oh well that is dismiss stiff, he didn't care for her at all, on the contrary that is the bed they would have slept in, that was the tradition, but it struck me and it strikes jonathan bates the author, that this is a sexy relationship, a sexy older wife, and there in stratford, i think, he learned about lov from ann,
you know. i mean so three children, three children, daughter first and then a son and a daughter twins, and of course, another thing there, very critical thing is that the boy died when he was 11 years old, so shakespeare's only son and his heir died at that age, which is a shattering blow from anybody, any man, for elizabethan it was overwhelming he only had daughters then and from their point of view, you know, he lost, you know, who did he have to pass on all of his money and all of his considerable property and so on by then. and so that must form the whole idea of the boy's name interestingly was hamnet and he died just before shakespeare wrote hamlet. so it can only be echoing all the way through that play. >> rose: i shouldn't be reading these, you should. but the fourth is the soldier.
fourth age is the soldier full of strange oat and bearded like the bard, jealous and honest, sudden and quick in quarrel, seeking the reputation even a cannon's mouth. >> in the cannon's mouth, look at that, at what we see every day from war zones, terrible scenes of these young men, these young men who go to war eagerly, seeking the bubble reputation. >> rose: right. >> even in the cannon's mouth, they go right up to the cannon, they offer themselves to death. it is an incredibly somber thought. and nowadays, i find that section of the whole section about soldiering and the war, and a great kind of sober feeling descends on the audience when i talk about these things because we know the reality of it, it was a present reality to them, because the elizabethans were never not at war, there was an insatiable demand for men that could never be must have soldiers, recruiting officers
roamed the land all the time trying to whip people and johnson shakespeare's contemporary fought in the netherlands, we don't know if skespeare did or not, it is possible. >> re: the fifth anal is the justice and then the justice fair round belly with good captain line with beards a formal cut, modern instances and so. >> he plays his part. >> isn't that a brilliant little snapshot of the justice of the peace, that is what he is really talking about, but justice itself is right at the heart of shakespeare's plays, and he actually was involved in lots of law cases himself, mostly to do with property, he had done so unsuccessfully he kept losing them and the property laws were incredibly unfair in elizabethan england, almost nobody came out of it with anybody anything, so his brother, he brought bitter feelings about lawyers, evidence
throughout the famous line of dick the butcher. >> the first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. so a upon sentiment. >> rose: and sixth age was old age, the sixth age shifts into eead parthenon, with spectacles on nose and pouch -- >> yes. it is, you know, that is just age, which comes to us all, and we see it all-round us but it is kind of benevolent in a sense, but age in shakespeare's plays is often a thing regarded with contempt, and the very famous in henry the fourth when king henry the fifth rejects pal staff, his, fall staff, his playmate has grown out of him .. and he says how ill, white hairs become a fool and jester.
and he talks about him long dreamt of such a man, so old and so profane. there is a feeling of great bitterness and rejection of the old. shakespeare, you know, was only 52 when he died, but i think you arare not wrong to assume he was in poor physical condition when he died, and the famous for rait of him at the front of the folio, the great edition of his plays published after his death of course by his fellow actors, was to suggest to us that possibly he had syphilis, and that would account to a large extent for the terrible bitterness of so many of the plays of that period, of his, you know, what, of being in his mid 40s but himself feeling ancient. >> rose: you wrote a book called being an actor. >> yes. >> rose: in search ofhat in writing the book? >> well, let's begin with a
question some people say. >> yes, what i wanted to tell people was what it was like to be an actor, and what feeling, what we experience as actors, both on stage and in our lives and our careers, and i came to it with such freshness, because i started act ago little bit later than some people do, i was 21 when i went to drama school and 24 when i started acting, and i came upon the world of the theatre and the world of acting almost like an anthropologist discovering a lost tribe. i thought how wonderful and extraordinary these people are and now i am one of them, how extraordinary how the rituals are and what the experience we have is, and it has been a hive long study, i still am profoundly fascinated by the nature of acting. >> #02: can you describe your own acting style? >> >> that's a hard one, i feel a
very sensual, very physical, i like to make hope that i am making a strong pysical impact, i always have a lot of energy and i have had a lot of invention and imagination, and i found that exciting, as i get older i move away from that more. >> rose: i know and i want to know why. >> well, i hav have i have comeo the conclusion in the last couple of years i suddenly have realized what i think acting is. and it is a very simple thing, acting is thinking the thoughts of another person. >> rose: thinking the thoughts of another person. >> yes. once you do that, once you adopt the mental patentsf another rson and that is what the writer gives you then everything else follows, emotion and your physical life follow on from then. so to me it is much less to do with having an idea about the way i want to look or having an idea about the way i want to walk, it is about actually starting to think those thoughts, that those words are mine, they come from me, and
then i will change, my physical life changes. and my emotional life changes it early, in this play where i play 23, 24 people, i am absolutely -- as long as i get the thoughts straight down the line, as long as i am absolutely thinking it at the second. >> rose: so how do you get to do that? i mean if the crucial thing is to think the thoughts of the character -- >> yes. >> -- how do you get there? >> basically you are to know them first so you really have got to master the text completely, so that you can -- there is a great art of acting which many people want to know how you learn the lines, and the answer to that is by for getting everything else. but. >> rose: wai stop, for getting everything else? >> yes, clear your mind out completely of anything else that might be in it, any of your daily concerns, anything else, blank sheet, and then you put down these thoughts, it is hmm like creating a new file on a computer, you put in all those thoughts on that page, but the
actual question is not how do you learn the language, but how do you forget them? how do you appear to have forgotten them? >> rose: so that you make it, so you make it natural that you just got the the thought. >> you have to surprise yourself with that thought and then only is it in the present and that is the great thing about acting and function of acti is to bring everybody into the present, we walked around mostly lock the in the past or worrying about the future, what it is theatre can do for you is bring you into the present moment, it is almost zen like, you are there with those people and following it, nothing nestle the matter matters to you except the lines of those people and it makes you very alive. >> rose: i think it is bill knight to whaid is is to me, the key to acting is to make it appear as you have just had the thought. >> the it is exactly right, it is the mental energy sat the thing that produce all of the excitement a in the theatre and the greatest actors are the ones who have -- the most directly
connected to the impulses in their brain. so someone like maggie myth is a bubble, she -- as she says the thought, as she says the word the image comes into your mind, into her mind and into your mind, it is, it springs to life, it is not words, just counters, they are -- they are filled with meaning and it is the meaning that we have to connect to, it is almost as ifhe text was a film passing through your mind and your mind is the light that illuminate it so as it hits the frame suddenly you see an image, that's what it is about. >> rose: you said while it started as a type of escape, it has now become the exact opposite, in that i am actually trying to connect to the center of myself, rather than creating a periphery. >> yes. that's exactly it. i did -- when i started acting, i hated myself, you know, a lot of actors do, and i wanted to escape into another face, another body, another life, and
that, you know, kept me going through quite a long time but then of course i started living. >> rose: does this have anything to do with your own understanding of your own sexuality? >> i don't think so, no, not particularly, i was -- >> rose: you were one of the earliest actors to come out in 1984. >> yes, i was, and it always -- i never had a problem with my sexuality. >> rose: so you didn't need any kind of escape to go to, no it wasn't to do with that at all, it was rather more propound to do than that, it was with a sense of alienation which was not to do with who i was, my personality, rather than with my sexuality. that wasn't the issue. >> rose: what didn't you like about your personality? >> i just felt i was in some peculiar way which i can't even properly explain to you and i think many actors feel this, i feel like i just didn't feel like i belonged inside my own body, didn't belong inside my own life, belong within my own
family and didn't belong anywhere and in some inexplicable when i started standing on stage in front of people and ah, now this is where i belong. >> rose: when did you figure that out. >> when i stood on stage for the first time, that was very late, i didn't do any school plays or anything like that, i 20 university, in order to act, for no other reason and i stood on stage and i felt two conflicts things, one, which was, god, it is wonderful to be here and the other was, how terrible i am, as though i get out of university as quickly as i could an and i t to drama school and the toughest drama school in the world, a place called the drama center and the most brilliant graduate from that school and it is like the marines. it is like, you know, our motto of that drama school is who dares wins, it is just a terrible, crash course in getting rid of all of the nonsense and the muck and the
pretenses that you -- we all -- >> rose: so if you survive that then you are an actor? >> that was my experience, yes. other people had a much easier time of it but i took it very much to heart. i thought, you know, i didn't know at all whether i could act so i was prepared to do anything at all to discover whether i had it in me. >> rose: but the love of shakespeare came much earlier. >> yes that almost started romantically i might say with the mother of the headmistress of a school where my mother was the school secretary, my education was thrown in as part of her satisfactorily. >> rose: right. >> and this wonderful bosom enhanced woman, mrs. birch, sat me on her lap and we listened together, i was six years old at the time to macbeth on the radio,. >> rose: macbeth? >> yes. and i was just overwhelmed with the power of the images, i
didn't understand what was being said but the radio production was very vivid and people fighting on battlements, witches, dead men walking, forests on the move, i was thrilled and hooked completely, and. >> rose: and it took you a while to know you had to be an actor. >> yes, i didn't - i fell in love with language, i fell in love -- i was stage-struck is what it was. and it is not necessary that when you are stage-struck you then want to become an actor, it wasn't until i wrote to lawrence zero legal i didn't about his work at the national theatre and wrote back to me and said if you like it so much why don't you come and work here. >> rose: what was in that letter that made it so persuasive for him? >> he knew that i was just in love with the theatre. three full scout, three pages of letter explaining how loved it. >> rose: i find it amazi he ead e letter, somebody read it and said you have to see this, this is the real thing? >> yes, yes, i suppose. >> rose: i don't know. >> and i think i might have ended up with the phrase it
makes one proud to be british which was the kind of phrase lawrence olivier was stirred by, a very simple patriot and it may have been that or it may have been something else in the letter or thought i got it, i got what he really wanted to do. >> rose: so he invited you to come. >> to work in the box office. >> rose: as what. >> box office assistant, number three box office assistant, very lowly figure, i may tell you. but it was -- that w the -- then i knethat the theatre was where i belonged in whatever capacity, but then i met actors for the first time like -- >> rose: gill good. >> and of course i did meet olivier but the ones important to me were the young actors, all of those wonderful young actors and they were like me, you know, they were ordinary people, they weren't grandees. >> lawrence olivier was a bit like that but these were just chance and girls that, like me and so i thought, maybe, maybe i could become an actor too. >> rose: if i am like them
maybe i can become an actor. >> exactly. and in a terrible act of stage management, the theatre happened to be dark i leapt up on to the stage and i said, to be or not to be, that is the question. and i happened to stand on the spot of the stage which was the perfect acoustic spot and the words echoed back at me like the voice offed to and i ran for my life, but i think -- >> rose: you ran for your life? >> yeah, i did, i was a bit frightened by it it was a very powerful moment, sometimes you can experience on the stage remarkable power, it surnls through yoand it is sort of bigger than you and of course when you get it right it is always bigger than you, it is access to something sublime is the truth. >> rose: what are some of the favorite lines from the sonnets for you. >> there was is a wonderful many of the poems are about time but i love the one that starts, lack of the waves toward the pebbled shore, so do our minutes hasten to their end, each changing place with that which went before, in sequent toil all
forward to contend, nativity once the main of light crawls to maturity, where with being krownld crooked eclipses gets its glorious fight and time which gave doth now his gift confound, extraordinary. >> rose: being shakespeare is april 4th to april 14th, correct? what a great thing to do, thank you. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: simon callow, being shakespeare. at the brooklyn academy of music from april 4th to april 14th, if you thought this was interesting, you ain't seen nothing. thank you for joining us. see u ne time.