tv Megyn Kelly Presents FOX May 17, 2016 8:00pm-9:02pm PDT
here's what you're in for. (overlapping voices) donald trump... donald trump... donald trump... donald trump. it's been a long nine months. it has been a long time. this is the first you and i have ever discussed what happened. (kelly) it's on. you've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals. i thought it was a fair question. i thought it was unfair. you know, it's not a cocktail party. i want to talk for a minute about the tweeting. you would be amazed at the ones i don't retweet. "bimbo"? did i say that? many times. ooh, okay. ♪ i don't want no dissension... ♪ and, from rocky childhood to "rocky horror," transgender star laverne cox is telling her story. did you ever worry that your mom didn't love you? that's exactly what i worried about. i, um... megyn... also, it's been nearly two decades
since o.j.'s first defense lawyer, robert shapiro, has spoken. moments after the verdict, o.j. simpson leaned over and whispered something in your ear. what did he say? do you believe that the killer has never faced trial? and why can't michael douglas ever catch a break with the tabloids? well, i was thinking when i heard that you had three months to live and you were sitting for this interview for me that maybe i was on your bucket list. (laughs) i'm honored. tick-tock. (laughs) ♪ let's just dive right in. it's been over nine months since the first republican presidential debate, and an electric exchange between yours truly and donald trump. what happened between us then-- and after-- would make headlines around the globe. for those nine long months, he and i did not speak. nor did i ever respond to his attacks. tonight, for the first time, i'll ask him about that... and about his seemingly unstoppable rise to the top of the republican ticket. and nothing is off-limits.
america has never seen anything like the political juggernaut called donald trump. a businessman and reality tv star with no political experience burst onto the scene and electrified voters with big threats... we're gonna knock the hell out of isis. ...and big promises. we are going to win in every aspect of our lives. while explaining the art of the deal... we're gonna make great trade deals. ...he perfected the art of the insult... it's rubio! (crowd cheering) ...against rivals... little marco, little marco. lyin' ted, lyin' ted. ...detractors... he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured. ...and the press... i would never kill 'em. but i do hate 'em. ...including yours truly, beginning with the very first republican debate. mr. trump. one of the things people love about you is you speak your mind and you don't use a politician's filter. you've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals.
your twitter account includes several-- only rosie o'donnell. (laughter) mr. trump did not like the question-- no, it wasn't. at all. for the record, it was well beyond rosie o'donnell. yes, i'm sure it was. does that sound to you like the temperament of a man we should elect as president? what i say is what i say and honestly, megyn, if you don't like it, i'm sorry. i've been very nice to you, although i could probably maybe not be based on the way you have treated me, but i wouldn't do that. and he sent out a tweet that night... (andrea mitchell) "wow, @megynkelly really bombed tonight." and... a re-tweet. (man) "fox viewers give low marks to bimbo @megynkelly." then he made this remark... (trump on phone) you know, she gets out and she starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions and, you know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes. blood coming out of her... wherever. (kelly) and he explained it this way. (trump on phone) i was going to say nose and/or ears, because that's a very common statement. blood pouring out of somebody's nose--
it's a statement showing anger. (kelly) that set off a firestorm. this is a candidate who has really had a history of some misogynistic statements. (woman) we've seen donald trump do this over and over again. the pundits said his attacks were political suicide. (woman) more fallout from the latest republican debate. (woman) i don't know how he thinks he's going to win an election. (woman) his unfavorability with women is skyward. this weekend surely signaled the end of trump's campaign. the pundits... were wrong. (woman) an nbc news/surveymonkey poll shows trump with 23%. (man) new poll numbers show that donald trump is surging. (man) the more trump speaks, the more he spikes. it didn't matter what he said... or how he said it. "donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states." when mexico sends its people... they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists... voters were angry and they liked that he was angry too. in january, he skipped the next fox news debate... megyn kelly's really biased against me.
do you really think she can be fair at a debate? ...which set off a new torrent of tweets. 80,000 tweets directed towards megyn kelly. vocativ broke it down to see what the most popular words were. (overlapping voices) crazy megyn kelly... sick... crazy... overrated... whore... bimbo... blonde... bimbo... skank... megyn kelly... slut... hooker. days later, he lost the iowa caucuses... but trump went on to win... and win some more. (man) another big win for donald trump. (man) a huge win for donald trump. and then... a new debate... nice to be with you, megyn. great to have you here. you're looking well, you're looking well. as are you. followed by more fallout-- and a call to boycott "the kelly file". (man) can't watch crazy megyn anymore. ♪ finally in april-- a meeting at trump tower. the meeting was at my request and mr. trump was gracious enough to agree to it. (woman) donald trump and his arch-nemesis megyn kelly are making peace. (charlie rose) there are signs of a truce this morning between trump... (man) their feud apparently diffused. you met with megyn kelly today.
how did that go? (crowd booing) 17 candidates down and trump is the last man standing... the presumptive republican nominee. let's begin. thank you for sitting down with me. thank you very much, it's my honor. been a long nine months... it has been a long time, i agree. i want to ask you about the beginning of your campaign. there had to be a moment-- on stage at a campaign rally, or one night after a win-- where it occurred to you: "i could actually be the president." when was that? well, i think the debates were really a big thing. and not to bring up an unpleasant debate, but you know, that first debate was pretty amazing. and 24 million people watching it, a record on cable television. and i think that meant something. i think that first debate meant something... because i felt very, very comfortable with the subject and i felt very comfortable with the people i was competing against. let's talk a little bit about, um, litigation, because you, you have threatened to sue many people
in the course of the campaign. but of course, if you wind up president, you are not gonna be able to do that either. well, you actually could... can, can you go four years without threatening to sue anybody? well, what china has done to us has been... maybe you do the world... (laughs) you know, you do three... you know, you do have methods of suing countries, okay? it's gonna be a busy law firm... no, no, it's gonna be busy, but, uh, it's a little different. and it's also a tactic for me, it's a business for me, and i've been successful, and i've, you know, used litigation. and sometimes i use it maybe when i shouldn't, and sometimes i don't. have you made any mistakes in this campaign? you had said publicly you thought the retweet about heidi cruz was a mistake. let me just... well, i said i could have done without it, to be exact. i mean, i could have done without it... well, you said "a mistake." are you walking that back? well, i did... no, no, i am not walking it back. but i, but i, i actually didn't say it that way. i said, uh, i could have done without it. i mean... but it was a mistake, wasn't it? i mean, that... you shouldn't have done that, right? i, i wish i didn't do it. although, you know, i guess you could say she's fair game 'cause she's very much involved with the campaign.
but i don't know, she just seems like a nice woman... but that, that tweet mocked her looks... well, you know what? i have millions of followers @realdonaldtrump. i have millions of followers, i have millions of facebook... i'm, i'm familiar... yes, you are. the thing that gets me in trouble is retweets. the retweet is really more of a killer than the tweets. the tweets i seem to do pretty well with. so that's one, the heidi cruz thing. let me just give you a couple... go ahead, sure. ...a list of a couple... sure, go ahead. ...and tell me... ...whether you have any regrets on it... the, the comment about john mccain, you prefer people who weren't captured. um, the comment about carly fiorina's face. but do you regret any of those comments? uh, yeah, i guess so, but you have to go forward, you have... make a mistake, you go forward and you, you know, you can correct a mistake... but to look back and say, "gee whiz, i wish i didn't do this or that," i don't think that's good... i don't even think... in a certain way, i don't even think that's healthy. i want to talk a little bit about your family. your, your older brother fred jr. was an alcoholic and died at a relatively young age.
when i say his name, what does that bring up for you? well, he was great. uh, he was the most handsome person. he was a, uh, really smart guy. really, really smart guy. he had everything. but at a certain age, he started drinking a little bit, a little more, a little more, and ultimately it was a big problem. and he'd say, "don't ever, ever drink and don't ever..." and i'll tell you what: i never... i've never had a glass of alcohol... never? i have, i have other problems, okay? but i have never had... what are they? get specific. i don't want to talk to you about that. (laughs) that, that i can't talk about. that would be too good. you've been divorced twice. yes. did you learn something about relationships, about love, about yourself? well, you have to put more into it... i put so much into my business that i didn't put enough into the relationship. and i see that, and i've learned that. i mean, i have learned that. sometimes there's nothing you can do about that because that's the way you are. i mean, if somebody told you that you have to ease up, you can only work half the number of hours that you're working, i don't know if you'd be able to do that... i'd give it a try. no. but even if they said,
"you'd have an even better relationship with your husband"-- and i hear it's just great. but you know what i mean... (laughs) i don't know that you'd be able to do that. has anyone ever hurt you emotionally? well, i think the big thing would be maybe the death of my brother. that was, you know, the hardest thing for me, uh, to take. that was very tough because it's, you know, unnatural. and he saw a certain potential in me, and he would say, "don't ever have a drink." now, i don't carry it that far with people, i don't. i never had a drink. but you know, people can have a drink and they can do it socially. but you know, that can lead... you tell me if i am wrong. i feel like you are trying to get out of bounds on the emotional question to the, the subject of alcoholism, which we discussed. has it happened that somebody has, has done something to you? you know, not a death in the family. but has done something to you, to wound you. well, you know, i don't know... i, i can say this. it would be something i could certainly think about and, you know, come back with an answer. no, it's okay, i mean... but, but i, i will say this.
um, when i'm wounded, i go after people hard, okay? and i try and "un-wound" myself. most kids between the ages of 6 and 16 have been bullied at some point in their lives. were you ever bullied? no, i wasn't. but, but i have seen bullying. and bullying doesn't have to just be as a child. i mean, i know people are bullied when they're 55 years old... it can happen when you are 45. i mean, it's, it's, it's... you know, it happens, right? but... you gotta get over it. you have to fight back, do whatever you have to do. let me ask you about that, because most american parents try to raise their kids to not bully, to not name-call, to not tease, not taunt. how can they effectively bring that message when the frontrunner for the republican nomination does all of those things? well, i, i do it... really, it... you know, i've been saying during this whole campaign that i'm a counterpuncher, you understand that. i'm responding. now, i then respond at times-- maybe ten, i don't know--
i mean, i respond pretty strongly. but in just about all cases, i've been responding to what they did to me. so it's not a one-way street. let's talk about us. okay. i asked you a tough question about women. "bimbo"? over your life, megyn, you been called a lot worse. now, if you could go back and wave a magic wand, and have been born with a female body, would you do that? ♪
let's talk about us. okay. we were always friendly. right. good relationship. right? and then came the august 6, 2015 debate, and i asked you a tough question about women, using only the words that you had used. i thought it was a fair question. why didn't you? i thought it was unfair, i thought it... first of all, i didn't think it was really a question. i thought it was more of a statement. that's the first question that i've ever been asked during a debate. and i've never debated before. i mean, my whole life is a debate, but i've never actually debated before. and i'm saying to myself, "man, what a question." and then, of course, then you have bret doing his thing. so i'm saying to myself, "i got two hours of this?" i don't really blame you because you're doing your thing. but from my standpoint, i don't have to like it... afterward, you said
that you didn't feel that the moderators had been "nice." but do you think it's the journalist's role to be "nice" to presidential candidates at a debate? no, fair. i don't care if they're nice. but you used the word "nice." well, okay. uh, no, i don't think so. i mean, i might have said they weren't nice, but that doesn't mean they have to be nice. i mean, i've known many... you know, it's not a cocktail party... no, no, i'll tell you what, in a certain way, what you did might have been a favor, because i felt so good about having gotten through... i said, "if i can get through this debate, with those questions, you can get through anything." you seemed to stay angry for months. yeah. was that real, or was that strategy? well, i'm a real person. i don't say, "oh, gee, i'm angry tonight, but tomorrow you're my best friend." see, i do, i do have a theory that, you know, when somebody does... and this could happen again with us... i mean, it could be, uh, even doing this particular interview. i have great respect for you, that you were able to call me and say, "let's get together and let's talk." to me... i would not have done that. i don't say that as an, you know, as a positive;
i think it's a negative, for me. and you walk into trump tower, you didn't... we didn't have, like, on a neutral site or over at fox or something. that would be a whole different thing and i wouldn't have done it. i think the doormen are still recovering... i, i think the whole building is recovering. (laughs) there are people going like, "this can't be possible," right? and this is the first you and i have ever discussed what happened... that's true. ...between us, over the past nine months... ...'cause you and i did not talk about that at our meeting. we didn't discuss it. no, we didn't discuss it. so when you look back on the, on the past nine months, from that first debate to now, any regrets? uh, absolutely i have regrets. i don't think i want to discuss what the regrets are, but absolutely. i, i could have done certain things differently... i could have maybe used different language, uh, in a couple of instances... but overall i have to be very happy with the outcome... and i think if i didn't conduct myself in the way i've done it, i don't think i would have been successful actually. if i were soft... if i were, you know, "presidential." okay, "presidential." it's... in a way, it's a bad word,
because there's nothing wrong with being "presidential," but if i would not have fought back the way i fought back, i don't think i would have been successful. you're no longer just donald trump, businessman, or donald trump, host of "celebrity apprentice". now you're steps away from the presidency. have you given any thought, in this position, to the power that your messaging has on the lives of the people you target and on the millions of people who take their cue from you? i have, i have. and i see suffering. i mean, i see tremendous suffering, and i understand it. i have a very big heart. a lot of people don't understand that, but people that know me do. and we have to take care of our country. and i do feel america first. i mean, america has been fourth and fifth and ninth, i mean... but you know what i am saying. when donald trump... i do. ...targets somebody and says, "this person is bad, that person is bad," it creates a firestorm in those people's lives. and many of these people are so-called "civilians"
who haven't put themselves out there as public figures. but it's in response to something that they did. or it's in response to something... but you are so powerful... you are so powerful now... i don't view myself as that. i mean, i view myself as a person that-- like everybody else-- is fighting for survival. i, that's all i view myself as. and i really view myself now as somewhat of a messenger... you know, this is, um... this is a massive thing that's going on. these are millions and millions of people that have been disenfranchised from this country. i was in front of a group the other day, 25,000... at least 25,000 people. the place was going crazy. and i said, i'm like the messenger. it's true, but they're, they're listening to you... and they're, they're taking their cue from you... so that's the question, is whether, now, so close to the oval office, whether you will take that responsibility seriously, and change your tone to try to be more unifying and less divisive. i do take it very seriously. and i understand what's going on.
and when i see the fervor... when i see 25,000 people that have seats, and not one person-- during a, an hour speech-- will sit down. i say, "sit down, everybody, sit down." and they don't sit down. they refuse to sit down. i mean, that's a great compliment. but i do understand the power of the message. there's no question about it. i want to talk for a minute about the tweeting. okay. set the scene for me. because i know where i was when i was on the receiving end of a lot of those tweets. but i have always wondered where you were. i'm picturing, like, a crushed velvet smoking jacket, you know, chaise lounge, slippers... maybe, maybe not as fancy as that... maybe probably a lot less fancy... walk us through it. you said it's you, if it's past 7:00 in the evening... this weekend, i picked up 114,000 people... but what do you do? do you pick up your iphone...? yes. ...and actually tweet yourself? usually after 7:00 or 8:00, i'll do it myself. but during the day, if i'm in the office... i have a number of people that i'll just call out a tweet to. it's always my writing. do you call out "exclamation point"? i do. i say, "exclamation point!" (laughs) that's sad! you know me well; you know me well. no, i'll say "exclamation point." like... i'm familiar.
so they'll type it out for me real fast, bring it in, i'll be in a meeting. blah blah blah, boom, "put an exclamation point here," and they'll send it out. so, so i don't do the physical. now, after, after like 7:00 or 8:00, if i'm home, i'll do it myself. and i have fans-- and you've probably learned-- and i didn't do this for this reason. but when you and i were having our little difficulty, um, you probably had some pretty nasty tweets sent your way. i, i don't want to say, but i've heard that. i don't want that to happen, but i have fans, they really love... we have an unbelievable bond, we have an unbelievable relationship. but you retweet some of those... it's not just the fans. yeah, but not the more nasty ones. you would be amazed at the ones i don't retweet. "bimbo"? uh, well, that was a retweet, yeah. did i say that? many times. ooh, okay. excuse me. (laughs) what do you think with, i mean...? not the most horrible thing-- you know, again, politically-- but not the most... over your life, megyn, you've been called a lot worse, is that right, wouldn't you say?
you know, you've had a life that's not been that easy and... it's not about me. it's not, it's not about me. it's about the messaging... no, no, no, i understand that, no, no. ...to, to young girls and to other women... but again, it's, it's a certain amount of fighting back. you know, it's, it's a modern-day form of fighting back; i mean, it really is. but, um... are you gonna stop that, as president? well, i am gonna stop it about you now, because... (laughs) ...i, i think... i like our relationship right now. so i am certainly not gonna do it with you. yeah, i, i think so... now you have my cell phone number... i, i will say this... that is actually much more efficient... i do, and you gave me your cell phone number... and you promised you would not use it for evil. no no no, i promise, i promise. you'll never see that; you'll never see that. if you don't become president, will this all have been for nothing, or will you have changed america? so i got a call from a great writer, who said to me, "congratulations." i say, "congratulations on what?" he said, "what you have done has never been done before." i said, "what have i done?" and he said, then he talked about different things... and i said, "well, unless i win, i can't do the changes. "i can't make america great again.
"i can't lower taxes and, and make our military strong. "and get along with other nations, frankly, "that we don't get along with right now. "but do better with them, you know, so that they're not ripping us off like they are." but i said, "unless i win, i can't do that." he said, "no, no, you're wrong. "what you have done has never been done before, and it'll go down in history." and i appreciate... and i don't want to really talk him out of it, 'cause in case it doesn't work out, i guess i'd rather have that narrative. but i will say this: if i don't go all the way, and if i don't win, i will consider it to be a total and complete waste of time, energy and money. mr. trump, thank you very much. thank you very much. it's been fascinating. thank you very much. i appreciate it. thanks, megyn. when you told your mother that you identified as female, what was her reaction? the first thing my mother said was, "but you have such big hands and feet." you would think if she was gonna object to a body part, she would have chosen something other than the hands and the feet. (laughing) and later in the show, more donald trump, with a stunning admission. i knew it!
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work together. work together. work together. do you got anything? i don't have anything. no i don't have anything. please come back internet. i love you. i love you so much. just come back. please. please. he's streaming a cat video. (family laughs) and the whole party is looking... can i take a look? mitch come on! get high speed internet from at&t with 99.9% reliability for just $30 a month. keep calm, your internet's on. (music plays from one way or another )♪♪
♪ i'm gonna find y♪ i'm gonna getcha ♪ ♪ getcha getcha getcha ♪ one way or another ♪ ♪ i'm gonna win ya ♪ i'm gonna getcha ♪ ♪ getcha getcha getcha ♪ one way or another ♪ ♪ i'm gonna see ya ♪ (inhales cigarette) and in the fall, there will be a splashy new tv version of "the rocky horror picture show". both of these productions have something in common. they feature the first transgender actress ever to be on the brink of superstardom. laverne cox has a unique american success story-- one that transcends transgender. ♪ when you're a six-foot-two african-american trans woman, you get called a lot of things-- glamorous...
sexy... beautiful. do you ever get tired of being called beautiful? no. it's lovely to hear. i didn't grow up feeling beautiful, so it's kind of nice. but what made her the first transgender tv star is her breakout role as sophia on "orange is the new black". i'm here... because i realized you might be my only friend. one of the models for her character sophia is cece mcdonald, a transgender woman who was imprisoned for manslaughter after defending herself from an attack. laverne is the executive producer of an upcoming documentary about mcdonald called "free cece". and she may well be on her way to becoming a trans icon. she's taking on the role made famous by tim curry in a remake of "the rocky horror picture show". ♪ whoo, ooh, ooh... ♪ shake makes me wanna take... so you grew up in mobile, alabama-- yes. --with a single mother and an identical twin brother. yes. i read that you said you did not see a difference,
you didn't understand that there was a difference between a boy and a girl. no... which is so fascinating... everyone was telling me that i was a boy, but i knew that i was a girl. i identified with things that were... i just felt like i was a girl. my third-grade teacher, actually, miss ridgeway, called my mother on the phone and said, "your son is going to end up in new orleans wearing a dress if we don't get him into therapy right away." what did the therapy consist of? the whole idea was that we must "fix" me. that, that i was... that there was something wrong with me... the therapist talked to my mother about injecting me with testosterone, to make me more masculine. so, luckily for me, a red flag went up for my mother; something didn't seem quite right to her about injecting her third-grader with testosterone to make them more masculine, so we discontinued the therapy. and when you were 11... mm-hmm. ...you took a bottle of pills. yeah. why? oh... (laughs) i didn't think we'd be going there... oh, sorry. um... 41% of all transgender people report having attempted suicide, and when i was 11, i did as well.
what had happened is that, as puberty started, i also... in addition to being very feminine, i realized i was attracted to boys. and, um, i learned in church that this was a sin. and then my grandmother, had also passed away when i was in sixth grade. she was an amazing woman. she was a domestic worker. she worked in the, um, homes of white folks in the segregated south, cooking and cleaning, and she was this dignified woman. and so i thought she was up in heaven looking down on me, and i imagined she was extremely disappointed that i was having these thoughts about boys... and the idea of disappointing her made me not to want to live. and so i went to a medicine cabinet and, um, took a bottle of pills and swallowed them. and i went to sleep, hoping not to wake up. did you ever worry that your mom didn't love you? that's exactly what, um... that's exactly what i worried about. i, um... megyn... (laughs) um, yeah, um, that was... that's the only... the only thing i've ever wanted, is for my mother to love me... and when i was being sent to a therapist...
it felt as if that she, she might not... so when you told your mother that you identified as female, what was her reaction? i called my mom and told her, "i'm, i'm a, i'm a girl, and i... this has been going on with me my whole life." the first thing my mother said was, "but you have such big hands and feet." you would think, if she was gonna object to a body part, she would have chosen something other (laughing) than the hands and the feet. but i think her whole thing was like, "you'll never pull this off." i mean, that was-- for me-- is what i understood her implication was: "you'll never pull this off." um, and it was hard for many years, and we had a lot of difficult discussions and arguments. um, but we're in a really great place now, where she accepts me as her daughter. this is my mother. (cheering and applause) you have an identical twin brother. yes. tell us about that relationship. he's just... he's my everything. i... he's my brother, um... her not-so-identical-and-more twin brother, m lamar, plays her character sophia, pre-transition on "orange is the new black". what's wonderful about having a twin brother
is that he's been there since the womb, and so he's like, "you're the same person you've always been. the shell has changed, but you've always been this person." let's, let's talk about romance. (both laughing) oh, really? can we talk about your romantic life, megyn? let's talk about you. uh-huh. are you dating anyone? i don't really talk about who i'm dating, megyn. oh, come on, give us a little something. dating as a trans woman is really hard. it's been... i feel really lucky right now at this stage of my life that, um... things are good on that front. what kind of men do you like? (laughing) what kind of men do you date? a guy who's kind of creative, i've found, is, um, better for me. looks are important. i like to... i love, um, waking up in the morning and seeing a beautiful man next to me. that's like one of the best things in the world. amen. (both laughing) so i enjoy, you know, looking over and seeing a beautiful man. now, if you could go back and wave a magic wand... mm-hmm. ...and have been born with a female body, would you, would you do that? i wouldn't; i wouldn't.
and the reason for that is because... i think... i now believe that being transgender is beautiful. do you feel that... making the transition solved a lot of your problems or created new ones? being... being a black transgender woman in america is really hard. it's been really hard for me. but for me, living a lie was much worse. i need to be in my truth. um... and i've been very, very lucky and i've been able to live my dreams, and i believe everyone should have the right to live their dreams. this is america. (laughs) we are supposed to all have that right. to actually put your hand in a glove that may have taken two lives-- i can't imagine. as you say it now, it is chilling. you've actually gone through a lot in recent years. what would you say was your darkest moment? ♪
what if you get a mortgage on your phone? we were thinking. wouldn't more people buy homes? and wouldn't those people need to fill their homes with household goods? and wouldn't the makers of those goods have phones from which they could easily secure mortgages of their own? further stoking demand as our tidal wave of ownership floods the country with new homeowners, who now must own other things. anyway. that's what we were thinking. [man] i got locked up in a 30-year mortgage. [brad] look at those renters. [organ grinder] la, la, la. [brad] you can find that freedom on apartments.com! take a little look at that...i'll see you later. [man] what? [brad whistling] [brad] change your apartment, change the world!
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when o.j. simpson was accused of murder back in 1994, i was in law school. and like the rest of america, i watched the trial gavel to gavel. well, the smash success of the fx mini-series "the people vs. o.j. simpson: american crime story" has proven once again that everyone still likes to talk about the trial of the century. well, almost everyone. for nearly 20 years, robert shapiro, o.j. simpson's first defense attorney, has remained silent... until now. thank you very much for being here. why do you think the story still brings out so much passion? i think because, number one, simpson himself, great all-american hero, one of the greatest football players who ever lived. first time dna was ever used in a trial, uh, of any significance, very interesting lawyers on both sides, and a horrible, devastating loss to, to two families. (man) mr. simpson is a wanted murder suspect,
two counts of murder. (kelly) when o.j. simpson was first arrested for killing his wife nicole and her friend ron goldman, pretty much everyone thought he would be convicted. not attorney robert shapiro. shapiro was so famous, he's portrayed by john travolta in the fx series "the people versus o.j. simpson". shapiro now says that a lot of what you think you know about the trial is wrong. first: shapiro says he outmaneuvered marcia clark by making her believe he wasn't ready. the judge asked "mr. shapiro, what's your position?" "your honor, we're ready for trial." looks at marcia clark and says, "call your first witness." and you could see the blood come out of her face, and from that day on, i knew, there would be no conviction. these are not efficient murders. these are murders that are really slaughters. second: shapiro believes the prosecution did not understand the evidence. did the dream team win that case, or did the prosecution lose it?
i think it's a combination of both. the prosecution wedded themselves to "one knife, one killer" theory. i think it's pretty clear that it was within reasonable medical probability that more than one knife was used. there is a strong possibility that more than one person was involved. and you believe the killer of nicole brown simpson and ron goldman has never faced trial? i think there's a strong possibility that that's the case. if it doesn't fit, you must acquit. and finally: shapiro had a plan for that bloody glove. i tried the glove on. it was a little bit wide in my palm and a little bit long in my fingers. o.j. simpson has enormous hands and i knew that that glove would not fit him. really? wouldn't even be close. did you feel in that moment, when you put your hand in the glove, that you were trying on the glove of the person
who murdered these two people? as you say it now, it is chilling. but i was looking for one thing and one thing only: the size of that glove. so, when o.j. simpson was asked to try on that glove in that courtroom, did you realize it was a critical mistake by the prosecution? here's what i told o.j. simpson: "i want you to walk as close to the jury as you can, "hold up your hand like you're holding the olympic torch and pull and tug on that glove, because it will not fit." and clearly it didn't. (woman) we the jury in the above-entitled action find the defendant, orenthal james simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder. (crowd cheering) moments after the verdict, o.j. simpson leaned over and whispered something in your ear. what did he say? "you had told me this would be the result from the beginning. you were right." how did you feel when you saw o.j.
laughing and posing for pictures shortly after the verdict? i thought it was inappropriate. two people were dead and there should still be some respect, certainly for your ex-wife. now, when he was arrested for armed robbery and kidnapping, years later, did he call you? no. why not? do you know? up to him. i wouldn't have taken the case, in any event. why? he still owed me money from the first one. really? after the verdict, shapiro went on to create the popular website legalzoom, fast-food-like legal advice, quick and affordable. we put the law on your side. but in 2005, shapiro's life went into a tailspin when his 24-year-old son brent died from a drug overdose. when you went to the hospital that morning, did they let you see him? the most difficult thing that a parent will ever endure
is seeing a child on life support with their eyes taped closed and standing next to his mother and knowing that you'll never see him again. the shapiro family channeled their grief into the brent shapiro foundation, which lobbied hard for a good samaritan law that says anyone can report a drug overdose without fear of getting into trouble themselves. he wants this to be his legacy, but that's probably not what people will remember him for. what's the takeaway from the trial of the century? there's moral justice and there's legal justice. and when that not-guilty verdict, uh, was rendered, i felt legal justice was done. as far as moral justice, i haven't discussed it with anyone, including my wife. i assume you have been following the 2016 presidential election. oh, is there an election going on?
plus, more of my interview with donald trump. let's have some fun. go ahead. okay. ♪ it helps us experience our world. and delivers us to others. it bonds us as family. and as friends. uniting us across continents. and cultures. or just across the room. this is the power of television which is why we strive to create the world's very best.
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even though his father turns 100 this year, no one is particularly concerned about kirk douglas's health. michael douglas, on the other hand, can't sneeze without someone writing an obit. in a way, it's a compliment. you know you're still relevant when the tabloids haven't left you alone... for half a century. so, i read in the tabloids a few weeks ago that you only had three months to live. tell me that is not true. what i love about these tabloids is they actually call you to check. they say, "we just know we're going with a story." and the story came out, and people were calling me saying "hi, how you doing?" i said, "good." they said, "you okay?" i said, "yeah, i'm okay." well, i was thinking when i heard that you had three months to live and you were sitting for this interview for me
that maybe i was on your bucket list. (laughs) i'm honored! tick-tock. (laughs) michael douglas has lived a big life-- the son of a movie legend who became a movie legend. a type a personality, he was always the coolest guy in the room... and a little bit dangerous. and i mean that in a good way. for 71 years, michael douglas has had astonishing good fortune mixed with some very bad luck. it hasn't always been easy to watch... yeah, i got cancer. so, um, i've got cancer. i found out about it three weeks ago. stage four oral cancer has a way of getting your attention, true. but things are slowly turning around for michael. his son cameron, after being in prison for seven long years on drug charges, is due to be released next year. marriage to catherine zeta-jones, once rumored to be on the rocks, seems to have found solid ground. and today, michael is cancer-free.
you've actually gone through a lot in recent years. what would you say was your darkest moment? probably the combination around the time just before my cancer, was my oldest son, cameron, who is 37 now, has struggled with addiction for most of his life and was a serious heroin addict, which eventually brought him into federal prison. it broke my heart, the combination, when he was sentenced-- i knew the amount of time he was gonna be spending in federal prison combined with my early cancer at the same time. that was a one-two shot that was probably a pretty dark moment. when he was growing up, you're a big movie star, you have incredible opportunities that nobody else on this earth typically gets. i would think it would be tough to look back and regret that. but do you? do i have guilts? absolutely.
you have guilts. we all do. you're working hard, you've got three young children. you're jewish! you have guilt! (laughs) exactly. i can relate, i'm catholic. exactly, there you are, exactly. we have it too. now, you're a man who likes to stay on top of things. how did you feel when you heard ted cruz start to quote the lines you had said when you played the president in the film "the american president"? it was the most déjà-- the weirdest sensation i, i ever saw. and i thought probably one of the most embarrassing. when cruz did that, it was funny. life imitates art. ♪ for decades now, michael douglas has generally been cast as morally, sometimes fatally, flawed. he takes your money... i could sell it today for 600.
...or your life... ...cheats on his wife... i don't think having dinner with anybody's a crime. ...seduces your woman... ...or man... well, this must be fate. ...and does it with a smile. if he has never been a traditional leading man, he has committed himself now to leading a traditional life. he calls this his third act, and he wants it to be different. he's a u.n. messenger of peace, concentrating on nuclear disarmament. we'll see the elimination of weapons. he's focused on providing support and understanding to jewish people in interfaith marriages, much like his own. and he's still trying to be a good son. my father is 99 years old. i just saw him. he's gonna be a hundred-- wow. --in december. and i bet you right now he's in better shape than he was five years ago. he's going to a hundred and two. (laughs) he grew this really long ponytail... halfway down his back. i went out this last time and it was gone.
little bit like you. i was gonna say, i know the feeling. (laughs) a little bit like you. and i said, "dad, what did you do? you cut-- i loved your-- loved your ponytail, it was great." he said, "this makes me look younger." he says... you've gotta be planning something for his hundredth birthday, no? well, we talked about it just now-- he's sort of like, "well, you know, i mean, it's-- it'll be in the afternoon." yeah. they say it shouldn't be a surprise party at that level. my nana just had one of these-- don't make it a surprise. how old was-- hundred years old. you're kidding! mm-hmm. i mean, i know he's still married, but you know-- she's free. so if he has any friends... right, right, right... okay. a hundred? yeah. congratulations. you've been given a second chance at fatherhood. name one specific thing that you're doing differently this time around. listening. with the kids now i am a much better listener. and one of the things i remember that happened is when my mother got together with my stepfather early on and he asked me a question one day--
he was talking, i was talking and i was pretty... inward-- and i looked up and he was listening to me. he was actually listening to me. and i just swelled up and started crying. it was the weirdest thing that came over, just because i had somebody-- a male figure, uh-- who listened to me. so i think it's probably the biggest, is-- not only with my kids, listening. with catherine, i listen better. it helps in a marriage too. a lot. it does. it helps a lot. how is she doing? she's wonderful. she's just great. i know you recently went back to the place that you proposed to her. you're getting a little sappy, aren't you? you're kind of a romantic. megyn, you're doing too much homework on all this stuff. come on. i know what i saw. i just love her more and more. love can actually become deeper. was there a moment in your life when you thought, "this is it. "i am firing on all cylinders. this is my moment." probably now is, is as close as it comes in terms of putting the whole package together, you know, in terms of your, your personal life
and i'm still working. getting a chance to talk with you on your first, uh, your first show. thank you very much. excellent. thank you very much. thank you! a shocking admission from donald trump when we return. i knew it! ♪ it was all pencil and paper. started out, the surface pro is very intuitive. i can draw lightly, just like i would with a real pencil. i've been a forensic artist for over 30 years. i do the composite sketches which are the bad guy sketches. you need good resolution, powerful processor because the computer has to start thinking as fast as my brain does. i do this because i want my artwork to help people.
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okay, i want to ask you rapid-fire questions about donald trump. number one: favorite movie. "citizen kane". favorite book, other than the bible or "the art of the deal". um... "all quiet on the western front". what was the last book you read? do you get any time to read? oh, no, it's so long, because now i read passages, i read, i read areas, i'll read chapters. i just... i don't have the time. you know, when was the last time i watched a baseball game? mm-hmm. i'm watching you all the time, okay? i knew it! i'm watching o'reilly all the time, i'm watching hannity. be honest. i'm watching greta... you didn't really boycott. uh... a little bit. not as much as... not as much as i want people to believe. but i don't have the time. i would love to sit down and read a book, but i just don't have the time anymore. well, in addition to "the kelly file," i have been working on a project, a book which i'm unveiling right now.
it's called "settle for more"-- my life motto ever since i was an unhappy lawyer years ago. the book shows how i did just that, with some tears and laughs along the way. and, yes, for the first time, i will speak openly about my year with donald trump. you can pre-order it now wherever books are sold. it hits stores november 15th. my thanks to donald trump, laverne cox, robert shapiro, and michael douglas for sitting down with me on my first special. and thank you all for watching. good night. is it even tougher when you're with catherine? then it's the double. i mean, a little bit, but i mean... that's a high-quality product. ♪ ...part of the spear? you are at the pointy part of the spear, my friend. (laughing) it's great. oh, yeah, sorry. we're having such a good time. watch the whole thing.
people love... first of all, it's different. yes, yes. they love the rink, they love the grand hyatt... well, it's interesting to hear you talk about, you know, your element. man: ♪ i wanna paint you in a song ♪ ♪ yellow, red, and sometimes blue ♪ ♪ i wanna show the world ♪ your colors meeting someone special in today's world -- it's not easy. we make split-second decisions about love based on photos and a flick of the wrist. so here we are in anguilla with 12 beautiful, accomplished, sophisticated women that are looking to find the perfect soulmate. i pour my heart into my business, but i absolutely believe in finding your soulmate. being so successful with my job, i feel like the only thing that's missing is love. vince vaughn, if you're out there, i would climb that tree. now not every woman wants the same man. so a constant stream of accomplished, eligible guys